August 1, 2023
"The thing that is more difficult to gauge... is how the American public will process Trump’s legal drama between now and November, 2024."
"Will the accumulation of charges and evidence, and maybe even actual trials, gradually turn opinion decisively against the former President...?... [In] the latest opinion survey from Bright Line Watch, a group of political scientists that monitors threats to democracy... [f]ewer than one in six Republican voters said they believed that Trump had committed crimes in trying to overturn the 2020 election, in his actions before the January 6th riots, or in making hush-money payments to Stormy Daniels. A few more Republicans said they believed that he committed a crime in the classified-documents case, but the total was still only one in four. By contrast, at least three in four Democrats believe that Trump committed crimes in each of these instances, the results indicated. Among self-identified independents who don’t lean toward either party... between thirty-seven per cent and forty-six per cent, depending on the specific cases—said they believed that Trump had committed a crime. And about half of these respondents said that the charges were politically motivated.... [T]here is now at least some evidence that the public at large is more open to reason and evidence...."
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[T]here is now at least some evidence that the public at large is more open to reason and evidence...
Problem for the prosecution is that works against them. It's also a big problem for Democrats in general...
I don't believe Trump will be president in 2024, because I don't believe that there is any chance he will be allowed to actually run. So in that regard, the banana trials will be a success, and the bipartisan regime will continue plundering the treasury and/or throw the money away on foreign adventures in a desperate attempt to delay the upcoming Russia/China hot war so that they might have more time to plunder the treasury.
But that is not the same thing as thinking that most people will see the ongoing shitshow, coupled with the same people throwing more and more charges out there as the election approaches, against the guy who at least nominally wants to stop them, and then most people going, 'wow, I don't like THAT guy!'
Thank goodness we don't have to talk about Biden. Or his former boss, who also knew nothing.
As usual for the New Yorker, the timing is important for this story.
Hush money to Stormy is OK?
But Biden's corrupt money grubbing - obvious and no doubt of it - is OK?
This is all nauseating.
Blah, blah, blah. He’s too old.
For the record, I’m his age.
Replace Trump with Biden, Republicans with Democrats. Each witness about Ukraine bribery is moving the needle.
Somehow, I suspect that the mass of Biden criminality is going to be so large by the end of the year, that it may even be possible to detect it from the offices of The New Yorker.
I absolutely despise the Left's phrase, "threat to democracy." For the Left, a threat to democracy is anything or any person they don't agree with. So, if you support Trump and actually vote for him then you are a person who is anti-democratic.
I tell you the real threat to democracy: It's Joe Biden letting in 6m illegal aliens and how the Dems have perfected mail-in voting and cheating in elections.
"Threat to democracy" is the perfect Orwellian phrase. It's like "climate change" and then calling an opponent to CAGW a "climate denier." Dr. Edward Teller and the 2022 winner of the Nobel Prize in physics both denied the assumption that carbon dioxide can change the Earth's climate. Put me in the camp with those two.
"the public at large is more open to reason and evidence"
Hey, hey, I've been open to evidence of prog railroading and deep-state shenanigans all along, and very cognizant of the reason progs keep going after Trump.
But might progs be overdoing the legal assault? I mean, they dont want to weaken the losing loser to the point where they'll have to run against a more sensible GOPer without DJT's baggage, do they?
This will likely backfire on the Dems. They're going to make Trump into a sympathetic figure, and scare off independents.
With his every utterance I feel he needs to retire as President Emeritus and fade away. But with every indictment I feel the need to send him money and back him for '24. He's getting too old but with every instance of the continuing lawfare against him, I want him back in the Oval Office setting fire to everything inside the Beltway.
I think its outrageous and unforgivable that the DC Republican Senators and congressmen instead fighting the unheard of, norm busting, Biden DoJ indictments of a former POTUS and probable opponent in 2024, say...nothing. Or in Romney's case, support it.
And even worse that GOPe and people George Bush, Cheney, christie, Ryan, etc. either support Biden DoJ and jailing Trump or are remaining silent.
These people have no principle and don't give a damn about the Republican voters. Trump isn't Uniparty, so he can be destroyed by any means neccessary. And if that means 4 more years of Biden, well, they're Ok with that too.
The Republicans aren't the controlled opposition, they're zero opposition. Of course, the dumbo conservatives aren't any better. They just want to be good losers.
Both Trump and Biden are too old. But the corrupt media and the corrupt demofukkk-Xi party want Trump. So Trump v Biden is what we will get.
Trump pays in ratings. Trump is the big pharmaceutical of politicians.
I think Alexander pretty much nailed it.
Dave.
What I think what thery mean by 'democracy' is fascism. At least that's the way it's panning out. If you disagree with the party you are untermenchen. MAGA is the new Jew.
Interesting to me is the long planning that has gone into assassinating Trump by 5 criminal prosecutions based on made up legal theories. It is a parallel to the 7 shots from 5 shooters that the CIA used on Jack Kennedy for daring to defy them.
It makes me wonder how they are so confident that this will work. Total control over media coverage must be the answer. That and professional election vote count rigging in the 5 swing state controlling Metro Areas that in effect chose winners for Arizona, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia.
Interesting times.
I absolutely despise the Left's phrase, "threat to democracy." For the Left, a threat to democracy is anything or any person they don't agree with.
I strongly agree with Dave Begley, but to me the true threat to democracy is the notion that crimes only need to be prosecuted when committed by a Republican. We know that Joe Biden also mishandled classified documents, leaving some lying around an office on the University of Pennsylvania campus in his post-VP years which he does not appear to have used very much but to which foreign nationals (Chinese, no less!) had unfettered access. He also left classified documents boxed up in the garage where he keeps his vintage corvette. And who knows what we’d find if his mansion at Rehobeth was searched as relentlessly as Mar-a-Largo? Who knows what we’d find if the thst former furniture store where Barack Obama keeps his Presidential papers was thoroughly searched for classified documents, not to mention Obama’s mansions in Kalorama and on Martha’s Vinyard? And Hillary Clinton was infamous for flouting even the most basic rules for securing classified data.
Althouse has, in the past, strongly defended prosecutorial discretion, however at this point there needs to be balance or it will be time to junk the entire DoJ and start over from a blank monitor screen.
I think its outrageous and unforgivable that the DC Republican Senators and congressmen instead fighting the unheard of, norm busting, Biden DoJ indictments of a former POTUS and probable opponent in 2024, say...nothing. Or in Romney's case, support it.
And even worse that GOPe and people George Bush, Cheney, christie, Ryan, etc. either support Biden DoJ and jailing Trump or are remaining silent.
The GOP has hoped for six years that once Trump went away, things would go back to the way they were before 2016.
The Dems' electoral strategy has long been to turn out enough voters to win. The GOP, in contrast, seemed to adopt the strategy of winning over the voters who turn out. The former meant building a coalition of disparate groups and building an infrastructure devoted to getting out the low-propensity voters. The latter involved an infrastructure around lots of ads to convince high-propensity voters (the white suburban voters who turn out in every election) that the Dems were mismanaging things, as well as picking the "right" candidate as an alternative. It worked after 9/11, where the Dems' response to the attacks drove a lot of voters to the right (the "I agree with the left on issues X,Y, and Z, but they aren't serious about terrorism" refrain that was common before 2008), but that only served to cement a lot of Bush-type folks who had disdain for large portions of the base. McCain and Romney should have been a sign that it wasn't going to work, but the GOP chose to ignore those failures, and the rise of the Tea Party, in favor of doubling down on immigration uber alles, free trade, and corporate welfare.
The election, January 6th and Stormy Daniels nonsense is Lavrentiy Beria stuff.
The efficacy of the documents charges depends on the construction of the Presidential Records Act, but the real issues are discriminatory prosecution and prosecutorial misconduct. The case is chickenshit. Everybody knows it. Some of us care.
Bright Line Watch, a group of political scientists that monitors threats to democracy
Funded by the CIA no doubt
Dave, I don't believe in the Global Warming bs but, as I am wont to do when people make statements that supposedly support a position I agree with, I do google it to see what I can find. According to the first three pages of results, Dr. Edward Teller in 1959 specifically spoke of the dangers of Carbon Dioxide and that it would raise the earth's temperature (almost exponentially -- I wonder how his predictions for 1990 turned out). Any comments? TIA
MarcusB. THEOLDMAN
I tell you the real threat to democracy: It's Joe Biden letting in 6m illegal aliens and how the Dems have perfected mail-in voting and cheating in elections.
You know the real threat to democracy: it's saying things you have no evidence of (and not from a lack of trying) as they are proven and demonstrated facts.
The efficacy of the documents charges depends on the construction of the Presidential Records Act
Bullshit. Trump has repeatedly misstated what the PRA is (even his lawyers are not willing to make that case in court.) Trump can legitimately claim personal documents belong to him (that is the Clinton Sock Drawer, where the issue was whether tapes of an interview were private or presidential documents) but documents that are written by other offices that came into his possession are absolutely not considered his private documents.
Their best shot at making any of it matter to the majority of his supporters is to also go after the Bidens and hold them fully accountable. Otherwise, it looks like political persecution and will just increase Trump's support. If it continues to be this one-sided, it won't matter what the evidence is, a lot of people will ignore it because of the unfairness of it.
[T]here is now at least some evidence that the public at large is more open to reason and evidence....
Yes, but which way - that Trump is the devil or that he is being persecuted by the devil?
There is no evidence that Earth’s temperature grew exponentially from 1959 to 1990. Mann’s hockey stick theory cannot be validated primarily because he won’t share data, but no other data supports his theory. Even the IPCC acknowledges this now.
Do you want to believe Edward Teller because he theorized an idea that is not supported by evidence 60 years later? If so, why?
Real Americans root for the underdog...Trump IS the ultimate underdog in this moment of time. When you have constant witch hunts thrown your way, with the both sides of the government, the Intel agencies and the media lying about you...people with their eyes wide open notice, and realize you are being set up. If you can't see it, get your eyes checked.
Another factor is the belief by many that Trump is the only candidate with the incentive and the courage to dismantle DC corruption.
The charges against him, true or not, pale by comparison to the ongoing criminality of the Bidens and the corruption of the regime media and the Deep State.
Bright Line Politics is one hilarious website. They spend pages and pages polling what they call "experts" -- political science professors -- and also Democrats, Independents, and Republicans about every single Trump event, yet they have absolutely no curiosity about Biden with two tiny exceptions they don't even mention in their lengthy analysis: Biden's leaving classified materials at his own home, and something called "Hunter's Confession" -- of what?
No Burisma, foreign bribes, etc.
From this "data," these boobs extrapolate a pile of hypotheses about the American public, the health of the Republic, patriotism, and, condescendingly, whether Republican can be trained like dogs to be better behaved.
They are funded by The Democracy Fund, a Soros entity, and Wilhelm Merck, by which I assume they mean the Merck Family Fund, profits from their pharmaceutical dynasty.
Hilarious and shameful partisanship parading as scholarship.
Democrats wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t confident of their ability to steal any national election. Full stop.
Who the Republican candidate is doesn’t matter. Which is why Trump’s support is so high. This guy, at least, will fight the bastards.
The narrative from the Left is Trump tried to overturn the election. It’s the Big Lie. Trump tried to find evidence of fraud and there was plenty to find but it was buried and covered up just like Hunter’s laptop. Not one court would look at the evidence. They all washed their hands of it because they didn’t want to be accused of trying to overturn an election.
Their only shot at making any of it matter to the majority of his supporters is to also go after the Bidens and Hillary Clinton (and enablers like Comey, McCabe, Garland, and Loretta Lynch), and hold them fully accountable.
@MB, FIFY.
You know the real threat to democracy: it's saying things you have no evidence of (and not from a lack of trying) as they are proven and demonstrated facts.
Thanks Freder.
You have demonstrated once again the Left's opposition to Free Speech.
You guys are the true fascists.
"Threat to democracy" is the perfect Orwellian phrase. It's like "climate change" and then calling an opponent to CAGW a "climate denier." Dr. Edward Teller and the 2022 winner of the Nobel Prize in physics both denied the assumption that carbon dioxide can change the Earth's climate. Put me in the camp with those two.
I think you've got that wrong:
(From Wikipedia:)
"'Teller was one of the first prominent people to raise the danger of climate change, driven by the burning of fossil fuels.' At an address to the membership of the American Chemical Society in December 1957, Teller warned that the large amount of carbon-based fuel that had been burnt since the mid-19th century was increasing the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which would 'act in the same way as a greenhouse and will raise the temperature at the surface,' and that he had calculated that if the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased by 10% 'an appreciable part of the polar ice might melt.'[95]
"In 1959, at a symposium organised by the American Petroleum Institute and the Columbia Graduate School of Business for the centennial of the American oil industry, Edward Teller warned that:[96]
'I am to talk to you about energy in the future. I will start by telling you why I believe that the energy resources of the past must be supplemented. ... And this, strangely, is the question of contaminating the atmosphere. ... Whenever you burn conventional fuel, you create carbon dioxide. ... Carbon dioxide has a strange property. It transmits visible light but it absorbs the infrared radiation which is emitted from the earth. Its presence in the atmosphere causes a greenhouse effect. ... It has been calculated that a temperature rise corresponding to a 10 per cent increase in carbon dioxide will be sufficient to melt the icecap and submerge New York. All the coastal cities would be covered, and since a considerable percentage of the human race lives in coastal regions, I think that this chemical contamination is more serious than most people tend to believe.'"
"Real Americans root for the underdog...."
Pshaww!! People who refer to "Real Americans" always mean people who think like they do.
[T]here is now at least some evidence that the public at large is more open to reason and evidence...."
Let's rewrite that to a more truthful statement.
[T]here is now at least some evidence that the public at large is more open to persuasion and propaganda...."
As the covidiocy proved, when you control the news and information outlets you can convince people of almost anything, like, for example, plain cloth masks can stop a virus from spreading, and people who don't wear one are evil and should be imprisoned. That is what the mask Karens wanted- to imprison people like me.
For the covidiocy, though, ALL the people in power on all sides were marching in lockstep. On Trump- they're not. Only the people on one side. And there's no appeal they can use similar to the false statement= "Follow the science!" They can't use "Follow the evidence!" against Trump because there isn't any.
"Thanks Freder.
"You have demonstrated once again the Left's opposition to Free Speech.
"You guys are the true fascists."
Ummm...so, pointing out (correctly) the dangers of asserting as true that which is not supported by evidence, that insistence on proof that one's claims are true and correct, is "fascistic...opposition to Free Speech?"
"the dangers of asserting as true that which is not supported by evidence, that insistence on proof that one's claims are true and correct, is "fascistic...opposition to Free Speech?""
If your response is to throw. the speaker in jail, rather than to counter his speech with evidence and arguments, then yess, it's fascistic. Thanks for asking.
It has been calculated that a temperature rise corresponding to a 10 per cent increase in carbon dioxide will be sufficient to melt the icecap and submerge New York.
CO2 has doubled, and the ice in Antarctica is the same as it was 40 years ago, just saying.
Is it "fascistic" to use a combination of government and corporate power to silence, and even imprison political opponents?
Let's go to the encyclopedia:
Britannica: "1. or Fascism : a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government."
It's funny though, that definitions of fascism have been "updated" to take out the part about how it is an economic system where corporate power and government power are merged. I wonder why? Maybe because YouTube and Google, and even banks, are punishing opponents of the Biden regime?
Let's try again.
Fascism would correct this by directing the economy toward “certain fixed objectives” [Climate Change?]and would “introduce order in the economic field.”[10] Corporatist planning, according to Mussolini adviser Fausto Pitigliani, would give government intervention in the Italian economy a certain “unity of aim,” as defined by the government planners.[11]
Probably sounds pretty good to you, doesn't it.
How about this quote from the guy with the funny mustache: The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property.
This all sounds a lot more like Joe Biden than Donald Trump.
The indictments are a no-lose proposition for the Dems. They either succeed in trial court convictions, or drive the Republicans to nominate the inevitably second place finisher. Nobody is heard who points out that Trump should not be President because his record shows him to be arrogant, childish, inept, a poor judge of character, and a magnet for excrement. Would anyone who posts on this site want to have Trump for a boss? And if the answer is yes, are you into masochism??
The 2024 GOP nomination may be our last chance. Please don't squander it.
"If your response is to throw. the speaker in jail, rather than to counter his speech with evidence and arguments, then yess, it's fascistic. Thanks for asking."
Is that what Freder is advocating?
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