"But in the hands of ByteDance [a Chinese company], it could also be used to subtly indoctrinate American citizens.... The CCP could also use TikTok to propagate videos that support party-friendly politicians or exacerbate discord in American society. Such videos need not originate from CCP proxies — they could be created by anyone. With essentially unlimited data on user-made content at its disposal, Beijing can leverage it to fan the flames of domestic division.
And thanks to the rising number of adults who get their news from TikTok, the platform has the ability to influence which issues Americans learn about, what information they consider accurate, and what conclusions they draw from world events. This places extraordinary power in the hands of company employees who could any day be overruled by the CCP."
That's from "TikTok, time’s up. The app should be banned in America" —in The Washington Post — by Marco Rubio and Mike Gallagher, who say they are introducing legislation to ban TikTok in
the United States.
Everything is always subtly indoctrinating us. Discord is always getting exacerbated. There will always be a fanning of flames of domestic division, and endless forces will forever influence what information we consider accurate. Gallagher and Rubio haven't made the argument that this one medium of free expression ought to be banned.
If they are such experts on propaganda, why can't they write better propaganda than this op-ed?
पोस्ट्स
४१ टिप्पण्या:
Ugh.
My biggest embarrassment from the 2016 campaign is that I backed Marco Rubio instead of Rand Paul.
Rand Paul is amazing.
Put him on the Supreme Court! Such a fierce intellect and an original mind. Love that guy.
We need more non-lawyers on the Court. They try harder and our Constitution is not just a legal document but a foundation text for our society. We should always have a non-lawyer on the Supreme Court just so somebody would throw a book at those nerds every once in a while.
Our politicians have been spewing Chinese propaganda for a generation while getting rich off China.
Guess Xi isn’t paying them enough. So we get this stunt.
How about banning visas to Chinese students to US universities?
Maybe stop taking China’s money?
Maybe get rid of China Mitch as GOP Senate leader?
Nah. Let’s go after Tik Tok
Tik Tok is trash.
...says Althouse, feeling sweaty and tremulous...
It targets unmarried women, the most easily gulled demographic group. It's an evolutionary thing to get them into bed.
Such opinion pieces need not originate from Washington Post proxies — they could be created by anyone...
Althouse said: "There will always be a fanning of flames of domestic division, and endless forces will forever influence what information we consider accurate. Gallagher and Rubio haven't made the argument that this one medium of free expression ought to be banned."
Begging to differ, Ann, but they did indeed make that argument. They pointed out that in the case of TickTock, the influence, the division, would be promulgated by the Chinese Communist Party. Which cannot be said to have America's interests at heart.
Unless, of course, you believe (and your underlying point is) that there is no difference between the CCP and the Democratic Party which is a position I'd be willing to entertain with respect to at least some Democratic politicians.
Senator Rubio is a member of the US Senate's Select Committee on Intelligence. As such, Rubio is subjected to a lot of studies and assessments about supposed foreign threats.
Suppose you own a company that makes its money by obtaining and fulfilling contracts for the US Intelligence Community. In other words, suppose you are a "Beltway Bandit".
As such, your company employees some retired Intelligence officers to work on such contracts. Perhaps one of more of those employees read Chinese.
In order to put such employees to work and to pay them, you have to sell to the US Intelligence Community the idea that there is some "threat" to US national security. This threat needs more study -- deserves a government contract to publish a threat analysis.
So, your Beltway Bandit company needs to make a big deal about some plausible "threat" to US national security.
Preferably, this threat is a new development (e.g. TikTok indoctrination), and therefore there will be minimal competition from other Beltway Bandits to win your proposed contract.
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This dopey threat gets some traction, because Beltway Bandits contribute money cleverly to politicians who influence the decisions. For example, Senator Rubio might make a big deal in a public forum about this TikTok threat now, and then a significant monetary donation might wake its way from the Beltway Bandit to his campaign fund sometime in the future.
Also, US Intelligence officers who are nearing retirement might influence the proposed contract's progress -- and then they might get hired by the Beltway Bandit after they retire.
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I got some insight into threat-study contracts, because when I was a USAF Intelligence officer, I worked a couple years as a plans officer in the Pentagon for the USAF Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence.
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I do not understand why Mike Gallagher is making a public fool of himself with his own nonsense about this imaginary TikTok-indoctrination threat.
Prof A, your argument proves too much. Applied to, say, addictive drugs, it would justify a policy of indifference because “everywhere you look, people have always been getting high.”
but I like watching women make cake litter boxes. and I like CORN!
Tik Tok the mouse ran up the clock, tweets and Twitter a life away now, a Google of steering and promotion...
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
The federal security agencies (spy and law enforcement) are hyper concerned about foreign influence and divided loyalties. This pertains to control/power and the abilities of those in office to act. This spans from elected officials to career bureaucrats. Control. Power.
I'm not sure whether US partisan propaganda sources are any less threatening or damaging (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, CNN, NBC, WP, NYT, Fox, etc.), but they are or used to be 'domestic' rather than foreign sources. These old distinctions are blurring with the smearing of national versus global/UN loyalties and heavy immigration and exposure to foreign media.
But TikTok or Facebook or Instagram...don't let any of them suck you in and control your life...
Scott Adams in his podcast today pointed out that supposedly young, single women are the ones who were decisive in this recent election. And young, single women get their "news" from Tik Tok, i.e., the Chinese CCP. So, that the election turned on young, single women being terrified and were made that way by Tik Tok. So....
I object to the term "medium of free expression." "Medium of curated expression" is more appropriate, in that the power of the medium is entirely in the control of the presenter, rather than the creator. Pravda was not a "medium of free expression" no matter how great it's Sunday comics pages may have been.
Is it propaganda and fake news that are the problem with TikTok, or just the relentless surge of pointless triviality? See the article I cited yesterday contrasting TikTok's role in China with its role in the US.
TikTok?? Why stop there? What about the evening news?.....and for that matter newspapers.
Elaborating my own comment at 2:57 PM
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It's likely that the Beltway Bandit company that already made money on the "threat" of Russia buying Facebook advertisements is the very same company that now is making money on the "threat" of TikTok indoctrination.
That company surely hired some expensive experts who know how to analyze Internet traffic. After the Facebook-advertisement contracts were accomplished, that company had to develop a new "threat" in order to continue to employ and pay those particular experts.
In that regard, the shift from writing contract proposals about the Facebook threat to writing proposals about the TikTok threat is a logical progression. The company can continue to use those particular Internet experts.
Also, that company surely employs some government-contract experts. Those employees wrote the Facebook contract proposal that earned the company a lot of money. The TikTok contract proposal would be quite similar. Essentially, the company's word-processor could simply replace all the "Facebook" words with "TikTok" and also replace all the "Russia" words with "China". After doing those text replacements, some further tweaks would have to be done with dates and other such details. Soon and efficiently, the new contract would be finished.
I suppose you would have to replace also all the "oligarch" words with the equivalent Chinese word.
Marco, Marco—Everybody knows that Russian disinformation is the only threat to our beloved Democracy.
"If they are such experts on propaganda, why can't they write better propaganda than this op-ed?"
Good one, Ann.
TikTok is a spying tool for the Chinese government. That's typically sufficient argument.
My wife is a psychologist, an expert in autism. She's been the lead author on several internationally-recognized studies related to adult outcomes for people with autism spectrum disorders. (I know I know, "cool story bro". This is all true though)
She offers diagnostic services as part of her private practice, for children and adults. In the last 18 months, the number of people who have come to her for diagnosis who have already *self*-diagnosed based on interacting with social media is absolutely through the roof. The vast, vast majority of these people do not have autism, and tend to react very angrily when they don't get their self-diagnosis confirmed. They often question her credentials and expertise, they are adamant that they *are* on the spectrum and that she has misdiagnosed them.
She calls such clients "TikTokkers". Because where I said, "interacting with social media" above, I really meant "interacting with TikTok". This problem she's seeing is 100% a TikTok phenomenon. Whether it's intentional on the part of the developers obviously I couldn't say, but for whatever reason that TikTok algorithm relentlessly pushes stuff that seems to be causing people, who maybe could otherwise cope with their mental pathologies, to tip over into full-blown psychological crisis.
Should it be banned nation-wide, like it is in China itself, I don't know. I am a software developer myself and have at least superficially acquainted myself with some of the things the TikTok app does when you put it on your phone. As a result, I do not allow TikTok to be installed on any device we own. If a visitor wants to log on to our WiFi network I ask if their device has TikTok installed and if the answer is yes I regretfully refuse them access. My impulse is to ask them for their device's MAC address so I can actively blacklist it, but I haven't taken it that far. Yet.
I cheerfully acknowledge that I might be a bit paranoid, and I get the appeal TikTok has for people who can manage to use it casually for entertainment. Lots of mildly amusing, sort-of-interesting content out there to enjoy! But I think TikTok is pure cancer, and my advice to anyone who cares to listen is to avoid it like you would a rabid dog. And at all costs, keep it out of the hands of your kids. Just my opinion, of course.
I was in San Francisco on business a week ago, and pulled up the cable guide in my hotel room to find three stations in a row that were essentially propaganda programs put on by China (touting 'beautiful China', Chinese sports, Chinese culture, etc.). Clearly propaganda. So, do you ban this stuff? After all, the US is also in the propaganda business (Radio Free (fill in the blank) anyone?).
The better, free speech way is to a) educate people to recognize propaganda when the run into it, and b) then decided, based on knowing that someone is trying to influence you through biased information, if you think the propaganda has any real value for you or not.
Unfortunately, the better way is not always the realistic way. Many people cannot recognize propaganda. I think it is important for organizations, institutions, etc. to point out forms of propaganda, but would not call for banning it unless we're talking enemy disinformation-level propaganda (think 'Tokyo Rose') which is based on lies and is aimed at tearing down our way of life. Does Tik-Tok rise to that level of propaganda? I'm willing to listen to the arguments, but would still need to make up my mind based on more information than what I've heard so far.
So is my takeaway supposed to be that Althouse pushes Tik Toks at us because deep in her heart she’s a communist and she has sold her soul to the CCP? Just thought I’d ask.
The CCP could also use TikTok to propagate videos that support party-friendly politicians or exacerbate discord in American society. Such videos need not originate from CCP proxies — they could be created by anyone.
When you think that through just a little, you can say the same about any foreign media company. European media companies, many owned by their governments, are doing this. NPR does this. Good thing Rubio and Gallagher waited until after the election to spout this nonsense. Then again, Trump was saying similar things while in office. Tell the Intelligence Community to give it a rest. Don't let them indoctrinate you into doing stupid things.
does make you wonder though. The tiktok influencers, you know, the ones that post 10 tiktoks EVERY day, and want people to 'vote' on them... The ones that say things like:
Everything is always subtly indoctrinating us. Discord is always getting exacerbated..
Just How Much? are THOSE people getting paid? Would they Even admit that they ARE?
I like TikTok. I especially like the talking black labrador called King Clarence. So far, he has yet to say anything about China except that he might have broken some.
More of this is the answer to all are problems
I find it ironic that Biden is urging his DOJ to investigate Musk because one or more of the investors is Saudi. The way Brandon mumbled it was those foreign ties. Because Twitter and Musk are a danger but China and TikTok are A okay.
Oh, great just what the GOP needs in its effort to draw some of the millennial and Gen-Y vote away from the Democrats, trying to ban TikTok.
Bad move. According to a site called "Wallaroo" about which I know nothing:
U.S. Audience – ...we estimate that TikTok has about 80 million monthly active users in the United States. 60% are female, 40% are male. 60% are between the ages of 16-24. 26% are between the ages 25-44.
Why has no American company been able to produce a similar app with the popularity of TikTok? At least then all our opinions would be shaped by local corporate interests, rather than a foreign government.
Tic tok is garbage. I understand some people like it. But it’s still rubbish. The most affected on young girls, and social media caused so many problems with them.
The fact that it, and most of social media is owned and run by people that hate us- should give you a clue.
Yeah its crazy they are going after Tik Tok. Almost like some other big company is out to demonize it? It is cutting in on their profits.
The main stream News is pretty damn indoctrinating and putting out a narrative. Bann CNN and FOX.
Why do Republicans always have to be Old Guys?
Because, Ann, it is backed up by facts, just as the fact that RT is a Kremlin demoralization campaign mindlessly absorbed by millions, effective because it appeals to its viewers' mindless appetites.
The most effective propaganda is shallow propaganda.
I want my MTV...
It seems that a Chinese media company would have China's best interests at heart. And the CCP has been pretty clear on what those are. But no. Nine Russians in a basement is a much bigger threat. Move along. Nothing to see here.
I don't know nothin' about that, but I have recently been watching Chinese soap operas with no English captions.
Coincidence?
My biggest embarrassment from the 2016 campaign
Technically I suppose voting for the pothead should be my biggest embarrassment.
My strategy there was to avoid any accountability for the next four years. So 2016-2020, I can't take any credit or blame for what happened in that time span.
As a matter of fact, I both signed the Never Trump pledge and voted for Trump in 2020. So anybody who is in charge of the FBI, they got shit on my ass.
Demonic FBI Agents Sent From Hillary in 2025
"You voted for Trump! Admit it!
"Yeah, I did. And you tell Hillary she can fuck herself in the bathroom on Pedophile Island!"
Demonic FBI Agents Sent From Trump in 2017
"You signed the Never Trump pledge, admit it!"
"Yes sir."
"Lucky for you, we don't give a shit."
Demonic FBI Agents Sent From Gary Johnson's FBI in 2029
"Hey, man, you want a little weed?"
"I don't smoke pot, okay? I like a natural high."
"I like you man. You're square as shit."
"Can I go now?"
"Hold on, we ordered a pizza."
The twist at the end of the series: The audience finds out that all the photos from Ann Althouse's blog are actually of a lake in CHINA!
The professor never existed. She was actually a fat Chinese bureaucrat in Beijing.
Last scene: Meade shouting in a courtroom, "I swear to you, I didn't know!"
So, apparently Rubio and Gallagher and everyone who agrees with their argument is smart enough to be on Tik Tok but not be influenced by the propaganda? This is the way that censors think. It’s not unlike the Catholic church in the 17th century who would read all those anti-religious and heretical texts and then determine what should be allowed to be read by the vulnerable public who somehow just weren’t smart enough and couldn’t be trusted like the leaders of the church could. No thanks. It makes me want to download Tik Tok later today.
Rubio has gotten off the leash and is running wild. Today, he's holding up the Senate leadership vote for Republicans.
Repeat: My friend who recently completed her masters in cyber security & put herself through school doxing terrorists for the Government, calls TikTok a Chinese Swiss Cheese app. I don't know the specific danger in watching, but don't download the app.
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