"... who had stumbled onto the trail that led from libertarian anarcho-capitalism to just-asking-questions hypernationalism to full-blown white separatism, male supremacy, and anti-Semitism; they didn’t all travel the whole distance, but the path in front of them was clear and well worn. A few years ago, whatever else could be said about Kanye West’s search history, at least it was idiosyncratic. These days, his serial fixations might as well be scripted by a mediocre satirist or an unsophisticated A.I. A decade or two ago, an ascendant Kanye West would have been too proud, too self-conscious, to be caught wearing a mid-tier outfit or using a played-out sample. The newly stagnant West, both as an artist and as a propagandist, keeps reaching for clichés."
From "Kanye West’s Parler Games/A stream of offensive statements from Ye and the announcement that he will buy a fringe social network have reignited debates about free speech. But maybe that’s not the best place to start" by Andrew Marantz (The New Yorker).
पोस्ट्स
७० टिप्पण्या:
Ye/Kanye .. the new black face of white supremacy.
LOOK! can we All Agree? That free speech is FINE.. IF you're speaking from the correct text?
Otherwise, SHUT UP! only Authorized Speech may be permitted
Once things become politicized,it’s a short trip from fearing white supremacy to praying for it.
Marantz on free speech: "Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
Kanye's heretofore undisclosed Lew Rockwell connection. Reading Ron Paul pamphlets on the toilet.
" maybe that’s not the best place to start"...
But everybody knows it usually starts with Ayn Rand.
Reddit has the latest Kanye offensive video calling out the “Jewish media”.
I’m posting the link here because if we’re going to accuse him of something heinous we should at least hear the heinous stuff before condemning him.
Copy pasta to your browser 👉🏽 https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/y8aswn/kanye_calls_out_george_soros_and_demands_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
"Dozens"? Oh no!
All identity politics, including the prof’s obnoxious feminism, is bullshit.
Filler for people, mainly writers, to fabricate causes so they can sell articles.
Fighting against identity politics bullshit is every bit as bad as being taken in by it. Any response just gives the bullshit artists an opportunity to play the martyr. It’s all an elaboration on sibling rivalry.
Best to ignore. Men, you can ignore feminist women out of your lives and choose normal women who just don’t give a shit. They exist.
In an era of incestuous relationships between the 100 largest universities, most of the 100 largest media outlets, and probably 65% of the political establishment...mainstream beliefs are those held by the elite clique and those who profit from the clique. Do not pretend this is left wing or ideological -- it's absolute corruption dressed up with bribes and soft, compassionate words that attract naïve voters.
Note the dramatic shift on the left from the 1960s and 1970s, when they said "Don't trust anyone over 30" and created all sorts of underground press outlets (e.g., Rolling Stone magazine). In the words of Don Henley: "I saw a dead head sticker on a Cadillac."
https://www.songfacts.com/facts/don-henley/the-boys-of-summer
In the words of Mojo Nixon "Don Henley Must Die"
https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/3530822107858627835/
So, I reject all such labels pushed on the right. "They were created and funded by the Pelosi-Schumer-Bloomberg-Gates-Zuckerberg-Fauchi greased palm clique. Young men are simply looking for coherence and their own social order. They know they won't find fairness or support from the clique, as bribes are given to everyone but them (per Obama, those clinging to God, guns, and religion; per Hillary, the deplorables). "Stupid rednecks." Respect, eh?
the trail that led from libertarian anarcho-capitalism to just-asking-questions hypernationalism to full-blown white separatism, male supremacy, and anti-Semitism
Is that really a trail? It's not even a spectrum.
Andrew Marantz, worker bee for the hive-mind, wants you to be suspicious and afraid that people are out there discussing unapproved ideas and having unapproved thoughts and not just people, uncool people. This one time Andrew went looking for people expressing weird ideas online and gosh, he "met" dozens of them. Dozens!
If everyone was like Andrew, who always knew exactly what to think because teacher told him, just imagine how smoothly the machine would run.
Ann: “… [Free speech]sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
I read this to mean that the exercise of our right to be heard is subordinate to the (hidden) operational considerations of some policy “template.” Yeah: that’s not censorship, nosirree.
“Reignited debates on free speech”
When did censorship and free speech become synonyms?
Marantz went to Brown, next best thing to an Ivy...from what I hear.
Althouse writes, "Marantz on free speech..."
And I assumed The New Yorker's policy was to de-platform fascists.
Kanye West is the Howard Hughes of our time.
It's pointless to criticize Kanye. He's mental and lacks the ability to recover on his own. This was obvious a couple years ago when he was on Joe Rogan podcast. What was also obvious on that podcast is that Ye is an intelligent gentle man whose main aim of his megalomania is to make the world a better place for all of mankind. The social media swirl around him is cruel petty and harmful.
I doubt that he met dozens of white supremacists who began as Libertarians. Seriously?
Parler, that 'fringe social network', had skyrocketed to the #1 app in both the Apple and Google app stores before Big Tech and the US Government decided they could not let half the country speak up about the coming 2020 election. So they deplatformed the fastest growing app, a social network that was booming. Shut it down. Censored millions of people from sharing their views and information that NBC was not about to discuss. In clear view of everyone the government and tech companies collided to censor a major information outlet. Almost sounds fascist.
I wonder what the long road is for those on the left that leads to making excuses for full blown censorship by the government in bed with specific industries. Hell, cheers it on. It's a surprisingly a short ride from protesting for leftist causes to applauding full blown totalitarianism.
As for Ye, he is nuts. Pieces of brilliance scattered among a loosely tied mind filled with dragons and God and, apparently, Jews. Parler has been pronounced dead. If it rises now, under the leadership of an avowed anti-Semite, it'll turn into what the Left always claimed it was, when it was not.
An amazing amount of time and effort is being deployed to keep a black man in his place.
both as an artist and as a propagandist, keeps reaching for clichés.
Writer, heal thyself.
The Left's demand for white supremacists greatly outstrips supply.
Ann @ 6:28
Marantz on free speech: "Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
Policy is the word Marantz uses that stands out. Leftists see speech as something that needs a policy. Policy = police. Structure, obedience, adherence... to the policy.
Who makes the policy? Why, democrats, of course. Because if they do not, your democracy is in peril.
He met dozens of alt right men--DOZENS. 🤣
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKie-vgUGdI
The left must dis-credit anyone who attempts to leave Berlin.
Agree, Howard. Well said.
Why is the almighty New Yorker writing about a mentally ill, untreated man and a minor social media network? Use the term "alt-right" and you're allowed to punch down, apparently.
CONGRATULATIONS TO KANYE FOR SINGLE-HANDEDLY GETTING LIBERALS TO FINALLY CRITICIZE BLACK ANTI-SEMITISM!
Time doesn't permit me to read the article now. The Althouse excerpt makes me wonder if the subject is Kanye and his horrible mediocrity or Andrew and his fantastic brilliance. Not a great invitation to read.
The governing spectrum runs from least to most. The left-right nexus is leftist. Alt-right is left.
That said, diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry) breeds adversity. #HateLovesAbortion
Came here hoping to read Greenwald's critique of how US security/intelligence agencies (CIA/NSA/FBI) have infiltrated the media (NYT, WaPo, etc.) to censor speech. All of these agencies have high-level secret contracts, paying billions of dollars annually, with all the major tech companies to censor speech.
Instead we get Ye analysis? Sigh. Apple and Google will just remove any app that tries to get around the government's censors from distribution on their networks. Buying Parler does nothing except kill Parler.
Came here hoping to read Greenwald's critique of how US security/intelligence agencies (CIA/NSA/FBI) have infiltrated the media (NYT, WaPo, etc.) to censor speech. All of these agencies have high-level secret contracts, paying billions of dollars annually, with all the major tech companies to censor speech.
Instead we get Ye analysis? Sigh. Apple and Google will just remove any app that tries to get around the government's censors from distribution on their networks. Buying Parler does nothing except kill Parler.
This incident is a great illustration of the value of free speech. We're all better off hearing Kanye and knowing that he thinks this way than not doing so.
The Marantz quote is scary. Shutting down speakers he doesn't like is the moral equivalent of war, and he's ready to kill.
It’s time for Americans to say it loud and clearly: those against free speech are authoritarians or worse and should not be listened to. They are as un-American as Marxism from where they borrowed their censorship tactics.
Meanwhile hutu radio as tucker calls cross and reid daily two minute hate proceeds apace
Shorter New Yorker Employee:
-Your speech needs a policy.
-Anyone who dares to wander off the democrat party corporate censorship platform is clearly a White Supremacist.
The New Yorker is sliding downhill fast.
"Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
I sense that Marantz approves of only certain thoughts and subjects. Some other things are "hate".
You know, most content is either persuasive or not. As I have said before, Ye is succeeding only in discrediting himself. Remember when John Galliano blew himself to smithereens in a similar drunken rant?
By the way, Althouse, I know you and Meade moderate comments, but this is a pretty free-wheeling space. Congratulations. And thanks.
“ Marantz on free speech: "Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
I hope he appreciates his right to say these idiotic things.
"Stagnant propagandists" with an interest in the arts can always become critics. Sadly, Ye never got the necessary college degree to make the transition.
The wave of murder and vandalism fanned by obama and pelosi and ocasio cortez people with access and power
The tsunami of crime that has swept from coast to coast.
All this electronic noise and hate over one man.
I could be biblical and repeat what Jesus said to his apostles.
I could repeat the famous Harriet Tubman quote about many more slaves she could have freed.
I could condemn the totalitarian impulse of the media and leftists in general.
I could remind the Althouse readers of what Niemoeller wrote all those years ago.
But the people who should pause and consider what happens when you whip up a mob for one man, do not read, do not consider history and are anti-religious.
So, I will continue arm up and keep my powder dry
Marantz's bumper sticker:
"Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace."
Is it, though? Be careful of arguing from metaphor, Marantz. In what way is being in favor of free speech equivalent to being in favor of peace?
As one example of how that metaphor falls down, it seems to me that being in favor of free speech requires (or ought to require) no action - speech is free unless actively constrained, by culture, by threat, by law. Is peace also a natural condition unless it's contravened? History suggests otherwise.
"It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
Here, other commenters have already amply covered the ground. If you believe that speech should only be free if it has a particular purpose, and that purpose is to formulate policy for some polity, then you're not talking about free speech.
We are in the midst of a massive increase in violent, anti-Semitic hate crimes being committed almost exclusively by black people. But the news stories the media runs with when a black rapper makes public, anti-Semitic remarks are somehow all about white-supremacy and conservatives. I wonder why that is?
Amadeus 48 @ 8:17: "...this is a pretty free-wheeling space. Congratulations. And thanks."
I second that.
Ye can be none of those things...he is one of the oppressed.
Parler has been slammed as a site for racism, white supremacy and hate speech. I joined when it started up, was very inactive other than reading for a month or two until I found it boring. I did not see anything racist etc. Perhaps I did not follow the right people.
I think it was even deplatformed and shut down for a while last year or maybe the year before.
It is going to be interesting having a black man in charge of this.
I wonder if this has something to do with JP Morgan debanking Ye and his companies? I find it very curious that they will not say why they are debanking him, just telling him to begone.
His anti-semitism, if it even rises to that, seems very mild compared to what we hear daily from the mainstream demmies, media, academia and other assorted fascists.
NB: I've not been following him closely, so perhaps I am missing something. Perhaps someone could post some links or examples of his antisemitism. Lem Ozuma posted 1 but it seems like very weak tea. Is this the worst thing he has done?
Seems to me like calling out National Socialist collaborator George Soros should be a daily routine. The fact that he is also Jewish does not make calling him out anti-semitic of itself.
John Stop fascism vote republican Henry
Unknown,
You do not need the app store to install an app in Android at least.
I don't think Parler was in the app store when I installed it. I know Gab was not. Still isn't.
Nor is TubeMate. A great app that allows downloading of YouTube videos. Also allows downloading audio only as MP3.
I've had no problem with any of them. I think there may be one extra click.
Granted, better to have the app in the store for the mouthbreathers that can't figure out how to break free of the Google/Apple chains. But keeping them off Parler and Gab may be a feature, not a bug.
John stop fascism vote republican Henry
Woke up this morning and turned on the television. Al Sharpton was on Morning Joe. Turned off the television and went back to sleep. Woke up again at 9:30. Turned the television back on. Someone was on Morning Joe talking about the need for Aididas to cancel their contract with Kanye. It's not cancel culture. It's counsel culture he said. Turned off the television....I think Al Sharpton qualifies as a bona fide anti-Semite. Unlike Kanye, his anti-Semitism actually has a body count. He's now part of the Democrat establishment. What are the chances Marantz will do a deep think article about Al Sharpton's career arc?...FDR did not have an honorable record as regards to the acceptance of Jewish refugees in this country. This was all the fault of the Republicans.
We must revolutionize our ideas ofof American Liberty - So called.
The authorities in Nation, State and City must be authorized by constitution to regulate the size of populations in Nation, State and City
From the Brooklyn Eagle, 1923 in an article on urban planning and predictions for 1963. Found on James Lileks' Bleat.
At least this guy wanted to do it via the Constitution, not ramming it through by executive order as the modern day fascists favor.
Fascism has a long history in the US on the progressive side.
John Stop fascism vote republican Henry
Ann Althouse said...
Marantz on free speech: "Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
Worse than meaningless = not allowing them to censor political opponents.
lys said...
We are in the midst of a massive increase in violent, anti-Semitic hate crimes being committed almost exclusively by black people
This makes NO SENSE.. In Fact, is Utterly IMPOSSIBLE.
The definition of a hate crime, is an evil digusting whitey doing stuff
HOW could a black person be white? You're just not making sense.
Black people can no more commit hate crimes, than they can be racist*. It's Just NOT possible
racist* racism equals Prejudice plus power
Howard said...
It's pointless to criticize Kanye. He's mental and lacks the ability to recover on his own. This was obvious a couple years ago when he was on Joe Rogan podcast. What was also obvious on that podcast is that Ye is an intelligent gentle man whose main aim of his megalomania is to make the world a better place for all of mankind. The social media swirl around him is cruel petty and harmful.
I don't get the jew stuff.
I understand that group identity is hardwired and that singling out other groups for condemnation has roots that are millions of years old.
Kanye is smart enough to understand that.
I wonder if he is purposely using the Jew baiting to get attention to the rest of his message. The word Jew is thrown in there randomly.
Howard at 716 nailed it re Ye.
There is no such thing as spirited debate about Free Speech.
There is either Free Speech or there is not.
"hypernationalism to full-blown white separatism, male supremacy, and anti-Semitism"
I always hate this trick of the liberal MSM of labeling anything they dislike some sort of 'Ism" and derogatory name. The whole idea is cut out all the reality and nuance and just slap a label on people so we can go "Oh, they're those strange oddballs who believe in X-ism" and skip over what they believe in and what exactly is wrong with what they say or do.
Its also a way of shutting down debate. You just label Kanye a "antisemite" and that's that. No need to listen to what he's acutally saying. Or so-and-so is an "incel" or a "racist" - so just close your ears. The rightwing does it to, but since they have control over almost no media, their ability to do this is limited.
I listened to some of what Kayne was saying on Youtube and he has a point. To a degree. For whatever reason, he started selling T-shirts with "white lives matter" on them. Immediately, some jewish guy cancelled his 4 sold-out Concerts in big stadiums. Another Jewish guy in his circle quit. Another Jewish guy cancelled his TV show (may have got this wrong).
So, he quite naturally lashed out. what's the point of having a 1st admendment when Big Business including Hollywood and the Record companies are going to destroy the career of anyone who deviates one inch from the "party line"?
He's now been cancelled by Chase bank and some other financial institutions. What's up with that? Why should your credit card be cancelled because they don't like your free speech? Insane!
We have civil rights protecting discrimination against people with religious beliefs. why not extend that protection to political beliefs?
It is perfectly acceptable to be virulently anti-white, anti-Christian or anti-republican on any social media platform. What West said about Jews was milder than what Biden said about MAGA Americans.
West "I'm going death con 3 on JEWISH PEOPLE"
Biden ""Your right to choose is on the ballot this year...and it's not hyperbole - the very survival of our planet is on the ballot."
and of MAGA republicans "it's like semi-fascism"
Fascists? The survival of the planet? Yikes, those people need to be gone!
While I dont' agree with either of them, they have a right to say whatever they like as long as they aren't calling for violence. However, between firebombings of pregnancy centers and the man in ND running over a republican youth, Democrat rhetoric has resulted in violence.
Kanye West is a tortured genius, he is very gifted but suffers from bipolar disorder.
Relax Jake. It's the New Yorker. I don't have to actually read it anymore. I already know what it says.
Two things jump out at me....
1. The inherent belief in that current thinking is good thinking and should be set as the benchmark against which new ideas should be measured against. Why is that framework so prevalent, in so many societies, when the entire history of humankind is filled with cultures and societies we now view as abhorrent. Shouldn't history teach us that at any given time current thinking is fundamentally flawed and that it is only through the open expression of speech, oft deemed "vile" in the moment, that society evolves to something better. And yes, this means speech often emerges that IS vile....while other speech emerges that calls out opportunity for improvement.
Side note: This reminds me of how global warming/climate change often takes the view that we have to stabilize the climate's atmospheric gas balance at CURRENT LEVELS as if those levels are ideal. Why? They've been changing for millions/billions of years. Shouldn't we instead be seeking what the ideal atmospheric gas balance is for humankind and then altering the atmosphere to that level?
2. I like how the wording of the "spectrum" automatically makes each next step evil. It's a really vicious framing. It takes people who have views similar in many views to liberals of the 60s, and questions accordingly the accepted norms and particularly the positions of an expansionist government role.
Two things jump out at me....
1. The inherent belief in that current thinking is good thinking and should be set as the benchmark against which new ideas should be measured against. Why is that framework so prevalent, in so many societies, when the entire history of humankind is filled with cultures and societies we now view as abhorrent. Shouldn't history teach us that at any given time current thinking is fundamentally flawed and that it is only through the open expression of speech, oft deemed "vile" in the moment, that society evolves to something better. And yes, this means speech often emerges that IS vile....while other speech emerges that calls out opportunity for improvement.
Side note: This reminds me of how global warming/climate change often takes the view that we have to stabilize the climate's atmospheric gas balance at CURRENT LEVELS as if those levels are ideal. Why? They've been changing for millions/billions of years. Shouldn't we instead be seeking what the ideal atmospheric gas balance is for humankind and then altering the atmosphere to that level?
2. I like how the wording of the "spectrum" automatically makes each next step evil. It's a really vicious framing. It takes people who have views similar in many views to liberals of the 60s, and questions accordingly the accepted norms and particularly the positions of an expansionist government role.
Marantz on free speech: "Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
Free speech is not a template for making policy, it IS the policy.
We have civil rights protecting discrimination against people with religious beliefs. why not extend that protection to political beliefs?
Or replace God with gods, or, as is common in secular societies, mortal gods and goddesses. Properly understood, religion is a behavioral protocol: morality in a universal frame, ethics its relativistic sibling, and law their politically consensual cousin.
"Being in favor of free speech is the content-moderation equivalent of being in favor of peace. It sounds nice, but, as a template for making policy, it’s worse than meaningless."
That must be too deep for my limited mental abilities to interpret because I have no idea what it means.
Maybe he stumbled upon "content-moderation equivalent" and was determined to find a place to use it.
"Parler, that 'fringe social network', had skyrocketed to the #1 app in both the Apple and Google app stores before Big Tech and the US Government decided they could not let half the country speak up about the coming 2020 election."
I never understood why Parler didn't sue Apple, Google, etc. It seems their shutting down of a competitor to Twitter was a violation of antitrust and a restraint of trade. But what do I know? i'm just joe sixpack.
TreeJoe said...
Two things jump out at me....
1. The inherent belief in that current thinking is good thinking and should be set as the benchmark against which new ideas should be measured against. Why is that framework so prevalent, in so many societies, when the entire history of humankind is filled with cultures and societies we now view as abhorrent. Shouldn't history teach us that at any given time current thinking is fundamentally flawed and that it is only through the open expression of speech, oft deemed "vile" in the moment, that society evolves to something better. And yes, this means speech often emerges that IS vile....while other speech emerges that calls out opportunity for improvement.
***********
Agreed. It is only in societies where free speech results in an unending dialectic that "progress" occurs. It's ludicrous for this current crop of CRT-espousing morons to think THEY have discovered the key to history, while all previous societies have come up short.
(We got a whiff of that when Obama kept claiming "WE are the ones we've been waiting for."
Tribalism, communism, rigid ideologies, rule by dictators and juntas... all eventually cause their institutions to stagnate, ossify and eventually fall into ruin.
Think China, Cuba, Russia, the Norks...or our "woke" fascisti.
I'm hoping the latter live long enough to see the idea of "presentism" bite them in their flabby asses. It's a damn shame prior generations---such as the American Founders and Framers---could not be brought back to judge today's proglodytes.
The speech policy is free speech (or should be). It's policy #1 according to our founding principles.
Make the rest of the policy based on what the free speech policy allows to flourish--robust debate, tested theories, freedom of thought, and the full and open marketplace of ideas.
There are some things so stupid that only an intellectual would believe them. Said a famous writer.
Ancap libertarians are the rightest of the right - everything private with no governing by statists. Hypernationalists are white supremacist power-seekers who require intricate state-based order to achieve their goals.
I cannot imagine Ancaps tolerating the screechy supremacists, who now would call themselves the New Right, let alone turn to POP-ulism.
Still love Ye. Marantz is a regime hack, hacking away at two targets of the regime—free speech and Ye. I wonder if he got paid double for this hit piece. He isn’t fit to lick Ye’s yeezies.
Joy Reed and Tiffany Cross, as narciso pointed out hide in the shadows of the first amendment.
As was said by Coulter I believe, "If the second amendment were supported to the degree of the first amendment, we'd be packin missile launchers."
I certainly don't get it either, Achilles, but you're making a mistake if you think there is any logic behind it that you and I would recognize as logic.
In fact, isn't that one of the first signs you're dealing with a nutcase? You're going along thinking you're having a reasonable discussion about something, and then suddenly from out of nowhere up comes " The JOOOOOZ.."
Pop Quiz: What do you think PRIMARILY offends these journalists reporting on West?
His antisemitic comments?
That he was a pretty lousy husband?
That he's been kind of crazy for a long time?
That he's come out as 'conservative'?
If that last point wasn't an issue, do you think these Kanye West antics would be getting quite as much negative coverage in main stream outlets?
Pop Quiz: What do you think PRIMARILY offends these journalists reporting on West?
His antisemitic comments?
That he was a pretty lousy husband?
That he's been kind of crazy for a long time?
That he's come out as 'conservative'?
If that last point wasn't an issue, do you think these Kanye West antics would be getting quite as much negative coverage in main stream outlets?
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