Writes Jennifer Rubin, cogently, in "Lindsey Graham delivered a gift to Democrats: Proof of GOP’s abortion extremism" (WaPo).
The GOP position on the abortion should be to leave it to the states — good old federalism values. Leave it to the Democrats to make a uniform national law.
I see that Graham wanted to draw a line at 15 weeks, and at first glance, I'd thought it might be what I'd written about on July 11th, in "Can we — most of us — come together and agree to allow access to abortion in the first 15 weeks of pregnancy — or at least the first 10?" But I wanted a uniform federal entitlement to access to abortion in the earliest stage of pregnancy, leaving the question of later abortions to the individual states. Graham is proposing a uniform ban on abortion after 15 weeks, leaving the states to make even tighter restrictions in the period before 15 weeks.
Maybe there's an idea of reaching a compromise, with a right of access to abortion before 15 weeks and a ban after 15 weeks, but it's hard to picture Congress compromising on this issue.
पोस्ट्स
७७ टिप्पण्या:
'I think most of the members of my conference prefer that this be dealt with at the state level,' he weakly told reporters.
Here is what I myself write:
=======
I, Mike Sylwester, prefer that the abortion issue be dealt with at the state level.
=======
I do not feel that I wrote sentence weakly.
"Maybe there's an idea of reaching a compromise, with a right of access to abortion before 15 weeks and a ban after 15 weeks" Exactly what I thought his bill should say. And get as many Republicans as possible behind it. That would have helped them in the midterms, instead of sabotaging them.
They don't want to win.
I wanted a uniform federal entitlement to access to abortion in the earliest stage of pregnancy, leaving the question of later abortions to the individual states.
Leave the entire issue to the state legislatures -- in accordance with the US Constitution.
The left consider opposition to killing an baby in utero as extreme.
The left demand abortion on demand up until birth. Period. but hey - that's not extreme at all.
Federalism for thee but not for me. Are the GOPe stupid, or are they machinating to stay the minority party so they won't have to accomplish anything?
It's a state issue at this point.
Lindsey Graham is trying to sabotage the Republicans. It's his M.O. The last thing he and Mitch McConnell want is for Republicans to run the Senate--they would have to produce instead of campaign and criticize.
They get plenty of graft now. Why spoil a good thing by being put in charge?
Once again Ms. Lindsey proves he's an idiot. If he must do this, why not wait until after the mid terms? If he really believes that the Feds bigfooting on the issue of abortion is a good idea, why not wait until his party is likely to have majorities in both Houses next year?
And frankly better to leave the whole subject to the various state legislatures.
Neocons like Jen Rubin and Bill Kristol used to be abortion opponents who argued in favor of overturning Roe. Today they oppose the Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe and they attack the creation of federal abortion restrictions. What explains this 180 degree change?
Graham has an expansive view of Congress power.
He seems to believe that regulating abortion is a necessary and proper means to make more effective Congress power to raise an army to fight stupid wars.
This was another own goal by the stupid party. Even among Republicans, most people don't like Lindsey Graham. I'd laugh if he trolled the left by introducing France's abortion law, but he seems to lack the wit.
I'm not sure who he's pandering to given that the pro-life right isn't going to like this bill anymore than the pro-infanticide left.
How many people even know about this bill? Few. How many know that there is high inflation?
Almost everyone.
Writes Jennifer Rubin, cogently
There's a sentence I never thought I'd read.
Perhaps Graham is more concerned with ingratiating himself with the far right than with helping his party regain the majority.
Don't think so. The "far right" doesn't want any abortions. I think it's just the opposite. When has the Republican Party ever taken a position that any abortions are okay before? It seems like an opening offer to start negotiations.
If this was a classified ad, it would say, "Legal Abortions. 15 weeks or best offer."
"Why would he do this?"
Simple. He's a fucking idiot.
That Occam guy knew a thing or two...
Graham is acting like he would prefer not to be in the majority. I will give him that. In the real world what matters is what people do, not what they say. Politics seems to be the opposite.
In less than a year from now, every state will allow abortion through the first 15 weeks of pregnancy.
That is because there is no state where there are enough votes to ban abortion during the first 15 weeks.
The problem will solve itself in all the states. The Federal Government should stay out of it.
My first thought was that this is intentional self sabotage. The Republican establishment wants to remain a minority party. They share most of the same goals as the Democrats and are terrified of a midterm landslide. They do NOT want to held to promises they have no intention of keeping. They only want to keep getting elected. Remember when they had the votes to repeal Obamacare? I am so damn sick of this dishonest facade of a representative government. There is no prospect of anything improving either. Trump can't do it, even if he manages to stay out of jail or for that matter alive. The truly amazing and funny thing about Trump is that he is a buffoon, off the charts goofy, and yet he stands head and shoulders above the rest in DC. What a mess we are in. And they are not taking any chances now. Trump's unlikely victory was a nasty wake up call to the establishment powers. Now they are working hard to consolidate power. There won't be anymore Trumplike surprises.
"Oh boy, let's make the elections about our opponents' favorite issue!"
Someone is set on proving that stupidity is not limited to Trump-endorsed candidates.
When 50 years of Roe v. Wade trench warfare came to an end, those holding now worthless political views seek an advantage. The expression "over the top" refers to leaving the security of a trench to enter combat.
It's all part of the US and global realignment. The post-WW2 order is dead. We just don't know what follows, except that the techno-totalitarian-green-Jeffrey Epstein-Davos crowd will likely control the future.
"The GOP position on the abortion should be to leave it to the states..."
That is the GOP position.
Graham is purposely undermining republican prospects for November. Just like Mitch.
And Mitch's very gentle chiding of Graham should not hide what is almost certainly a backdoor approval from Mitch to Lindsay to do it, knowing Mitch's gentle "public rejoinder" is meant only to establish plausible deniability.
I've read commentary suggesting that Graham is forcing vulnerable Democrats to go on record as supporting abortion on demand with no restrictions up to birth. And that, according to the majority of the American public, is the real extreme position.
I'm not convinced Graham is that clever, but I thought the possibility was worth mentioning.
Are they trying to shoot themselves in the foot?
"It's the economy, stupid."
Run on that. after the mid-terms maybe you can do some windmill tilting. Are we, in normal land, that much smarter than our politicians that we can see how clearly boneheaded this play is?
hawkeyedjb: "Someone is set on proving that stupidity is not limited to Trump-endorsed candidates."
There is nothing stupid about it.
It's part of the core GOPe plan to facilitate helping the dems remain in power in the Senate. That's been obvious for quite a long time now with Mitch and the boys spending more money and time and effort attacking repubican challengers to their GOPe dem-suckup candidates than to attacking democrats.
Then Mitch goes out and publicly badmouths republican candidate across the nation.
On one level its a positive development that the entire GOPe establishment is happy to put their hatred for the republican base voters on full display.
Transparency is always a good thing.
Calling Lindsey Graham an attention whore is an insult to whores.
"It's a state issue at this point."
No, it isn't. The issue is live at the federal level. That's why there are bills. And if Congress gets enough votes, it will be resolved at the federal level (subject to testing in court).
Change the word "issue" if what you mean to say is that the matter is currently governed by state law.
"There's a sentence I never thought I'd read."
I usually dislike her columns, and I frequently blog them, so I had to add "cogently" to avoid signaling that here's another Jennifer Rubin column I dislike.
Considering how much bad news is coming out, anything the Republicans do is going to step on something.
Graham knows this has no chance of passing. His point is to put the Democrats on record that they do not support this, despite the fact that the large majority of Americans support at least this level of restrictions. Democrats are extremists on this issue, wanting no restrictions at all, which is very unpopular and, for that matter, cruel.
That said, I would not put it past the Republican establishment to sabotage their own party. They have done it before.
"Are the GOPe stupid, or are they machinating to stay the minority party?" asks Kate.
Embrace the power of "and."
Blogger Old and slow said...
My first thought was that this is intentional self sabotage. The Republican establishment wants to remain a minority party. They share most of the same goals as the Democrats and are terrified of a midterm landslide. They do NOT want to held to promises they have no intention of keeping.
Exactly ! The minority doesn't have to do any work and the graft is almost as good.
Why? Because Lindsey is a crappy politician who quite consistently says dumb shit, votes the wrong way and is generally a big talker and slow mover who does little. It's like after McCain died, there was no one to tell Graham how to behave so he's wandered around doing shit like this. There's not been a "bipartisan" bill he wouldn't sign onto or a "Gang of X" group he wouldn't join to do "comprehensive" bills, the kind its easy to hide nefarious shit inside. Like McConnell Lindsey is happy to play Washington Generals bench rider to the Democrats' portrayal of the Harlem Globetrotters; it is sooo much easier to be the "loyal opposition" to Democrats than you know, actually lead and take responsibility.
Thanks, Lindsey. Go back to sleep.
Ann Althouse at 11:47
The issue is live at the federal level. That's why there are bills.
It doesn't matter that someone in the US Congress has initiated a bill.
It still is not a federal issue.
Republicans are going to get clobbered on this because whatever they propose is going to be called a "ban" in media headlines, whether that be at 0 weeks (which I would call a ban) or 15 weeks (which I would not).
The Republicans are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
If they say they're for some abortions, it brings the issue up again.
If they say nothing, they're accused without responding they all want a total ban.
Graham is the wrong person to lead this communication. But he's doing it because the Party leaders have done nothing -- even communicated loudly and consistently it's a state issue -- to fill the vacuum.
This was no gift to the Dems. Inflation will be here through the election and will likely get worse. Plus people have the attention span of ants
"It still is not a federal issue."
To say "It still is not a federal issue" is to *argue the issue.* The fact that you have to say this is not a matter for the federal government proves that it IS an issue. You could be right, but the argument is live, which is the definition of "issue."
The question what can/should be done at the federal level and what belongs to the states is one of the most enduring issues in federal constitutional law.
There has been a concerted effort in the last 100 years to turn the constitutional law of federalism into a purely political decision left to Congress. Congress can get involved in anything it wants — That's about what I was taught in law school. I graduated in 1981.
I taught the constitutional law of federalism from 1984 through 2016, mostly fighting against the prevailing law-professor opinion. I considered it a live issue. And I assure that if the issue were dead, it would not have died in the direction you want!
Kate says: "Federalism for thee but not for me. Are the GOPe stupid, or are they machinating to stay the minority party so they won't have to accomplish anything?" The GOPe may or may not be stupid but Lindsey Graham certainly is. Abortion may be a federal issue because politicians keep making it one by proposing bills in congress. However, it should most certainly NOT be a federal issue and should be left to the states. The constant desire of national politicians to step into what should be decided at the state level is one of the main drivers of our national decline. Every time I hear a congressional candidate start talking about crime I want to reach out and slap them. If crime is your issue, RUN FOR THE STATE LEGISLATURE! And that's just one example of many issues that are no business of congress.
Graham is proposing a federal bill LEGALIZING ABORTION up to 15 weeks. How the fuck is that "Far Right". How is that Prolife? By proposing to LEGALZIZE abortion and take it out of the hands of Red states, Graham is undercutting every Republican Prolife candidate.
Who is going vote R because they want to legalize abortion at 15 weeks instead of 30 weeks?
Why quote lying Jen Rubin? Who crazily misstates what Graham is doing? Why is GOOBER bringing this up now? Why isn't he attacking Biden? What a fucking Clown show.
Ann Althouse said: "I taught the constitutional law of federalism from 1984 through 2016, mostly fighting against the prevailing law-professor opinion. I considered it a live issue. And I assure that if the issue were dead, it would not have died in the direction you want!"
I agree wholeheartedly. It's that I just occasionally let myself get lost in a fantasy world where the original federalist design of our constitution is actually honored. I know...silly me.
Abortion SHOULD Be a state issue. The R's should oppose every attempt to federalize the issue. That's why Graham is such a dumbshit. But then, Graham is NOT a conservative, he just plays one every 6 years to get elected.
People in South carolina are trying to ban abortion, and Graham wants them to fail. He's pro-choice up to 15 weeks. He's not representing the SC republicans - as usual.
Let each state decide. There's zero reason for a "one size fits all".
Once you realize Lindsay Graham is a viper hiding inside the Republican Party, all of the things he does make sense. Joe Manchin does more good things for the Republicans than Graham does. Republicans in SC should dump him even if it means electing a Democrat for one term.
Y'all talking about Graham? Mission accomplished.
rocean said...
Graham is proposing a federal bill LEGALIZING ABORTION up to 15 weeks. How the fuck is that "Far Right".
On abortion, unless you are for on-demand / up until the moment of birth, you are labeled "far right". Sad really. Gross.
I've accepted the fact that if our nation boils all of its values down to basically the right to infanticide...we deserve everything we are going to get.
“The GOP position on the abortion [sic] should be to leave it to the states — good old federalism values.”
Too bad the GOP didn’t take that position on slavery. Good old federalism values would have saved us a heap of trouble.
Hell, just make it 52 weeks
The most recent Harvard CAPS poll, page 33, still shows a plurality want abortion standards set by state legislatures (42 percent) over either Congress (30 percent) or the Supreme Court (28 percent).
Among the GOP, only 18 percent want them set by Congress. Althouse has a better sense of Republican voters than Graham.
None of the "issues" really matter in Wisconsin in regards to the midterms.
Abortion smortion.
The mid terms hinge on Democrat concentrated areas harvesting and forging absentee ballots.
Milwaukee is openly promoting their operation this week. They're not even hiding it. Proud of it.
Sorry. Whatever I may feel about the abortion issue, it's not even in my top 10. As I watch my finances dwindle, the cities around me become medieval, the borders open like we were Rome at the end stages, our Fearless Leaders pointing at us and shouting Deniers!, Deniers!- as if we're in the Middle Ages and need to prove our religious fervor or be cast out- I don't think I'm alone in paying more attention to a 1276 drop in the DJ Average than anything Lindsay Graham proposes about abortion.
We're falling apart in every conceivable way here in the US. Our kids cannot write, add, or speak and show no motivation to support themselves. Those who have think they are owed more. Those who don't have now have carte blanche to just take what they want. And those in the former middle class are wondering just how this all ends. Abortion is important. It's just not the most important thing right now. Sorry- it's not. So, no- I'm not worried that this will rekindle the Dems. We all know how we're voting this fall. And those who don't can just look around them. I don't think abortion will be the first thing on their minds.
Roy Jacobsen said...
I've read commentary suggesting that Graham is forcing vulnerable Democrats to go on record as supporting abortion on demand with no restrictions up to birth. And that, according to the majority of the American public, is the real extreme position.
I'm not convinced Graham is that clever, but I thought the possibility was worth mentioning.
That was my reading of this as well. Not sure I buy that it will have the intended effect though. Plus it makes them look stupid after saying "It's a state issue" and then "Oh, hey, no it isn't".
But then, they don't call it the Stupid Party for nothing.
Anybody read the proposal? Me neither. Anyway, does this remove state choice regarding abortion, or simply limit abortion time for those pro abortion states?
Seems like leaving it to the states , with a fifteen week Federal cap might be an acceptable proposal.
Old and slow said...
My first thought was that this is intentional self sabotage. The Republican establishment wants to remain a minority party. They share most of the same goals as the Democrats and are terrified of a midterm landslide.
You are very close.
Graham is part of the Regime. He is on the same side as Obama and Biden and Clinton.
The only purpose of Lyndsey Graham is to provide a Regime vote from a conservative state.
He was friends with McCain. If McCain didn't betray the people that voted for him to keep Obamacare alive Graham would have. When it comes to making sure the Regime gets what it wants and the machine keeps running there are 15 "Republican" senators that Mitch can call on to betray the Republican voters.
These people do just enough to get re-elected as Republicans and then they push the Regime goals.
This is why you find it was Republicans in Arizona that "settled" with Democrat lawyers to allow mail-in voters.
State Senator Vos is nominally a Republican in Wisconsin. Yet you find him in the middle of every drop box and mail in vote scandal in Wisconsin that allowed democrats to mail in thousands of votes.
The only people worse than the Democrats in this country are the Republicans.
I don't understand this theory some people have that if we just compromise on abortion, everyone will be happy. You're either pro-murder, or you're not. There's no "some murder" compromise, because that's just conceding that the pro-murder people have a valid argument. Who is Graham doing this to appeal to?!
I left the uncorrected copy of a comment I corrected (and will delete it now).
(The uncorrected version said: "If it was dead, it would have died in the direction you want!" The correct version, and the only thing you see now, reads: "If it was dead, it would NOT have died in the direction you want!")
"I agree wholeheartedly. It's that I just occasionally let myself get lost in a fantasy world where the original federalist design of our constitution is actually honored. I know...silly me."
Your preferred interpretation is not necessarily the current case law, but that could change, as Roe changed. The important thing, from my perspective as a law professor, is to know the case law and the arguments for keeping it or changing it and so forth. Be clear about what you're talking about. I took judicially enforceable federalism seriously through my entire time as a law professor and wrote articles on the subject. I don't think it's silly. I just want to be clear about the facts, which include the current case law (and efforts to change it). If you care about changing it, it's especially important to have a grasp on what's in the cases.
That said, it matters that people have strong ideas about what the Constitution means that are separate from the judicial decisions. It has an effect on who gets on the courts and what the courts actually do. That's how we got Dobbs.
I actually don't think it's that bad, but then I'm in Michigan. The overstepping governor of Michigan deserves to be sent packing, but the GOP Candidate is for zero legal abortions. The GOP pushing for a 15 week limit would help pro-choice, anti-Whitmer voters.
"Why would he do this?
Because he is a member of the Democrat party.. Please PAY ATTENTION!
"Leave it to the Democrats to make a uniform national law."
I was about to write that Rubin wrote something I agree with, but I checked the post and realized it was Althouse and not Rubin who made the point (which figures -- Rubin is not that clever).
Yes, Republicans should leave this task to the Democrats. They will surely screw it up six ways from Sunday. Better they than the Republicans, who would screw it up even more.
The Democrat symbiosis of progressive prices (PP) and Planned Parenthood (PP).
I think Lindsay was trying to play the role of moderate statesman by proposing a law that most states would have passed without federal intervention.
That hinders states like California, Illinois and New York from becoming abortion destinations.
It is almost as dumb politically (in an election year) as the idea of privatizing Social Security. Democrats use these wedge issues to scare ignorant voters.
I want to agree with MayBee, as that is how I would want such a law even in my own state. However, I would like such a law so that abortion will become one of the least important issues in the US, particularly for this election season. We have a disastrous and incoherent foreign policy. We have supply chain problems at the basic levels. We have violent crime rising across the country. We have a DOJ that has made clear it’s intent to persecute political dissidents. We have the worst inflation in 2 generations. But Democrats and Republicans in DC want abortion to be the number one topic.
"Leave it to the states."
I'd remind you Ann, that the governor of Virginia, in his re-election campaign, had a discussion where he suggested that a baby could be born and then the mother and the doctor could then have a discussion about whether to murder it.
The second that sort of shit starts happening, is the second this country starts burning to the fucking ground.
What has he got to lose? Republicans are already labeled as having utterly destroyed access to abortion just by the act of existing while the Supreme Court handed down a decision.
How are Abortionists going to ramp it up any further than they already have?
Plus, baby killing is icky.
Plus, everytime someone fills up at the pump (or partially fills up because they can't afford to fill up, and yes that is currently a thing I saw happen in the last week) they get reminded about inflation and high gas prices.
When it comes down to it, when compared inflation and high prices and declining stock markets and presidential administrations that can't seem to fix any problems, people generally don't care that much about babies being killed, but they also don't really care about whether women can legally kill their babies.
Pretty much most Americans, after a shopping trip + fill up would be equally open to tossing babies down a well or shoving pregnant women into handmaiden costumes if they could go back to 2018 prices.
As far as I understand it. I may be getting it completly wrong, there are issues which:
1) Can only be decided by the states
2) Can only be decided by the Feds
3) Can be decided by either the Feds or the States.
Abortion is category 3.
It used to be the SCOTUS would strike down Federal laws it thought were infringing on the states or simply had no business getting involved in. After FDR packed the court, that pretty much went away.
The great thing about Democrat appointed judges is they don't care. They'll be Federalists today, and in favor of absolute Federal power tommorrow. Whatever advances the Leftwing Democrat agenda. Kagan-Sotomayor-Brown don't believe in theories. They believe in results.
Wickard v Filburn cursed be thy name.
People complain Trump had no true values.
Then we are subjected to these two dorks, stepping on their dicks to out Democrat the Democrats
The constitution is easy to follow. WTF?
Buckwheathikes: "I'd remind you Ann, that the governor of Virginia, in his re-election campaign, had a discussion where he suggested that a baby could be born and then the mother and the doctor could then have a discussion about whether to murder it."
Its important that you make special note that the gov of VA you reference was Ralph Northam, the New Soviet Democratical.
Its important to mention because we have moron lefties running around here, looking at you Inga, who still, to this very day, claim that no democraticals have ever said any such thing.
Of course, New Soviet Democraticals in several states actually put forward this heinous idea (or what Inga might call a "spark of divinity" idea) in legislative form. Rhode Island democraticals in particular.
Then you also have the New Soviet Democratical "ethicists" (yes, really) advancing the idea that perhaps the parents should have the right to kill their child up to weeks after birth.
Note: Peter Singer of Princeton.
I wonder how many Democrats in the House would support that?
If democrats wanted to protect all women’s access to abortion, they would do the legal before 15 and ban after 15 plan. That’s the best thing for all American women. But democrats care about votes, not women.
So lose the house & senate & let the Democrats federalize "abortion rights" to the moment of birth?
Graham knows his federal bill is contrary to Dobbs, and would be eviscerated by the Supreme Court, Commerce Clause be damned. So why do this now, when it will very negatively impact the midterm elections?
I'm guessing there's blackmail going on here, plain and simple.
Now Graham has the attention he needed. They're all talking about him. The life of the party!
From deep Democrat territory, this looks like a stupid move. Maybe it plays better in South Carolina. To me it looks like an indication that Lindsey isn't that politically astute and does need a John McCain figure to give him directions.
Mike Pence has made similar comments. It's a reminder that the in many ways Trump was a moderate, and not the extremist monster that Biden makes him out to be. Also, a hint that if Washington politicians were able to able to get along as well as Joe Biden says they were, it's because they didn't take seriously the things they felt forced to say to appeal to the base. They'd make the right gestures and say the required things and then it was back to business as usual.
I was stuck in a hotel and turned Fox on and got Watters jabbing Graham Cracker about the horrible timing and Graham Cracker repeatedly went with (paraphrasing) "When is it a wrong time to protect the unborn?"
Watters even suggested he didn't have much of a history leading on the issue, Graham Cracker just kept to his canned line.
My favorite part was the pre-commercial set up of the segment with Watters saying Graham Cracker had some explaining to do for his bad timing wirh a visual of Graham Cracker wearing a stupid shit eating grin.
Drago mused:
"Mitch's very gentle chiding of Graham should not hide what is almost certainly a backdoor approval from Mitch to Lindsay to do it,"
Phrasing here is potentially chafing.
"I'm guessing there's blackmail going on here, plain and simple."
Might involve chafing as well.
" a visual of Graham Cracker wearing a stupid shit eating grin."
It was a video clip so it looked as if he was reacting to Watters' jab in real time.
Since the left is so much in love (?) with the way the so much more civilized Europe does things, why don’t we look at what they do, and replicate that?
I despise Graham (as noted, he is effectively a Democrat in the Republican Party) the media are distorting what he is proposing which is quite similar to a Euro-plan, at quick glance. How about 16 weeks then only for medical reasons?
While I do agree it should be an individual states decision, there are lots of things done at the federal level which shouldn’t be (not that it’s a reason to continue to do so).
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