"The Los Angeles Zoo has used Celexa, an antidepressant, to control aggression in one of its chimps. Gus, a polar bear at the Central Park Zoo, was given Prozac as part of an attempt to stop him from swimming endless figure-eight laps in his tiny pool. The Toledo Zoo has dosed zebras and wildebeest with the antipsychotic haloperidol to keep them calm and has put an orangutan on Prozac. When a female gorilla named Johari kept fighting off the male she was placed with, the zoo dosed her with Prozac until she allowed him to mate with her."
From "Modern Zoos Are Not Worth the Moral Cost" (NYT).
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५६ टिप्पण्या:
Zoo's are the saddest places on earth
Talk therapy sessions are old fashioned.
When a female gorilla named Johari kept fighting off the male she was placed with, the zoo dosed her with Prozac until she allowed him to mate with her.
They run out of alcohol?
When a female gorilla named Johari kept fighting off the male she was placed with, the zoo dosed her with Prozac until she allowed him to mate with her."
Rape drug!
I hate zoos with a hot angry passion.
Just archive.is'd this. Wow. Had no idea. I learned something new today. Yeah, for me anyway such a practice is morally dubious. I don't think drugging animals to make them appropriately acceptable for city-slickers is moral, especially when modern zoological conservation has been so focused and recreating habitats as perfectly as possible for the quality of life of the animals in their charge.
I get there's a breeding mission for many zoos, one which might come in conflict with an animal's natural instincts. But that's on them, just like fucked up human mating strategy is on us. Wild animals (note wild...not domestic) are violent, in the wild or in captivity, I don't think we've got good ground to stand on medicating animals whose ancestors chose not to be domesticated by our ancestors.
Perhaps the reason that such "mental illness" behaviors are not seen in the wild is because they are so maladaptive that any animal that exhibits them is soon culled by predators, disease, abandonment by the herd, etc.
We know that mental illness in human beings has a strong biological component. It's not just you're in a bad situation. It's that you've got a brain that doesn't work quite right to get you out of that bad situation. Why should we assume that mental health in animals is any different, since their brain chemistry is much the same as ours?
I think that rather than just blithely assuming that zoos cause mental illness, we might want us to consider that zoos allow us to see mental illness in animals because the animals are fed & housed.
The last example of Prozacing the female gorilla until she mated with the male sounds like a Bill Cosby type law suit waiting to happen.
Most chimps and orangs I have seen in zoos seem to demonstrate behaviors that we as humans would label mental illness. A college primatology class weekend trip to a large zoo was really depressing once we all started comparing notes and talking.
Some species may do better in a zoo, but the longer I live the more they remind me of prisons.
Zoos... I love the opportunity to see exotic animals up close and not on a screen, and I'm glad they're so much better than they used to be about types of enclosures, diet, and efforts to conceal human observers from animals. And of course their conservation work is very valuable to many species. But it's hard to get around the obvious truth that, especially with the so-called "higher" animals, zoos induce great stress in their animal charges, and there's no way to explain to an animal that the stress is manageable and exists for good reasons, and that the animal is safe.
I feel conflicted.
When a female gorilla named Johari kept fighting off the male she was placed with, the zoo dosed her with Prozac until she allowed him to mate with her.
Government sponsored roofies, and date rape. What more could a guy want???
Better living through chemistry.
I do remember a roadside zoo on I-35 somewhere between Austin, and San Antonio. The star attraction was a primate in a metal cage on a long length of chain leach.
The animal was profoundly disturbed, and spent the day smacking the chain against metal cage walls. Trying to make as much noise as possible. It was disturbing to see, and I thought that animal needs to be put down.
Yes, I paid the price of admission. I'm part of the problem.
Sounds like middle school.
Safe and Effective.
I'm not sure I can support zoos anymore if it's come to this.
I bet they also give them vaccinations that aren't found in wild animals. . . .
The moral cost of pride parades at the zoo. The mental effects of the choice are a progressive condition exhibited in impulse waves, treated with psychoactive drugs and alcohol.
I dislike zoos, but the notion of "moral cost" is so hilariously subjective that it isn't even worth talking about. A Wicker Man-sized strawman.
Unless you know the incidence of this behavior in the wild, you can't ascribe the cause to captivity. Zoos administer medicines of all kinds to animals, with the result that they typically live longer and more peacefully than they do in the wild. There shouldn't be a moral stigma to providing mental health treatment as well.
I have to agree. Nature cinemaphotography has gotten so good over the years, capturing animals in their natural state, doing what they naturally do - zoos are no longer needed. I would argue that watching a cheetah run in slow motion (or regular speed) chasing down its prey is a better experience than viewing one in a zoo.
Now do schools.
Maybe the problem is that very few species turn out to be tameable, and those few were all tamed long ago. It isn't just a matter of humans applying their ingenuity. There is an argument that we didn't tame dogs as much as they tamed us; with dogs, pigs and horses there has been lots of interbreeding between tame and wild, but somehow tame (mostly) wins in the relevant population. Some human populations that lived with wild horses domesticated some of them and then (presumably) deliberately bred for a kind of tameness; breaking wild horses has always been dangerous. The indigenous people of North America had their chance, but didn't achieve this. I don't know about cats; the domestication of chickens may have been easier than in the case of mammals. Cows are so docile I believe they have to be prevented from over-eating to the point of illness or death. Zoos even at their best are a kind of compromise; let's hope the animals are somehow tame enough to tolerate this. Trying to get rid of chimpanzee aggressiveness must remind us of humans.
Jumbo the elephant, for some reason, was really remarkably docile or gentle with people. Because of the care with which he was (ignorantly) treated, he developed severe health problems that would have been very painful. He had rages in which he destroyed his living quarters, and he was medicated with beer; yet he never turned on people. There are records of many male elephants in captivity killing people. I believe some of the Born Free people were killed by their own lions. With the attack on Roy Horn of Siegfried and Roy, it was easy to think: the tiger finally showed his wild side. I believe some experts said if the tiger wanted Roy dead, he would have been dead. Pit bulls may be bred and trained to ensure something of the wolf remains available at some kind of provocation, who knows what; suddenly you have a ruthless and effective killer on your hands.
I bet they also give them vaccinations that aren't found in wild animals. . . .
The zoo had 'emergency use authorization' from the Grand Puba himself, Saint Fauci of Aquarius.
NYT opines on the moral cost of depriving life through choice and its collateral damage.
If I were in a cage all day with people looking in on me, I'd be on anti-depressants, too -- and probably anti-psychotics, as well.
But it does feel like the pleasures of a century ago -- the circus, movie theaters, and now the zoo -- are going the way of vaudeville. Whatever we want will be streamed or delivered and nobody will ever leave the house.
But I do notice that people are still going to the park with their children (human or canine).
Sounds like the lockdown. Just 2 more weeks...
"I'm not sure I can support zoos anymore if it's come to this."
This has always been the truth of zoos. Even today, many people disregard animals as essentially insensate, lacking any thoughts or feelings in any say akin to ours.
“I pointed out that we can’t ask animals whether they are happy with their enclosure size. 'That’s true,' he said. 'There is always that element of choice that gets removed from them in a captive environment. That’s undeniable.' His justification was philosophical. In the end, he said, 'we live with our own constraints.' He added, 'We are all captive in some regards to social and ethical and religious and other constraints on our life and our activities.'”
--So what if we just gave these animals TV streaming, the internet, and news about a pandemic?
Better to let them live freely where they can injure themselves and suffer a long, painful, lingering death or else being killed and eaten because they're too weak to run away, or sometimes starting to be eaten before they're actually dead. Or having half your offspring killed by a predator right in front of you when they're two days out of the womb. Or, in the case of chimps, being chased down and brutally killed by members of another group, just for whatever purpose is in their heads. Or they could be cute little lion cubs who are all killed just because a new male took over the pride. Or be taken from your clean, safe aquarium only to die a cold and lonely death.
But God forbid, don't give them Prozac. . . .
So Paul Simon was prescient?
The monkeys stand for honesty, giraffes are insincere
And the elephants are kindly, but they're dumb
Orangutans are skeptical of changes in their cages
And the zookeeper is very fond of rum
Zebras are reactionaries, antelopes are missionaries
Pigeons plot in secrecy and hamsters turn on frequently
What a gas, you'll have to come and see at the zoo
I propose taking a square, about 20x20 miles, of Texas - choose a location, almost anywhere outside the urban areas will work - and create a fenced, natural environment where animals roam free and visitors drive through. We could see nature red in tooth and claw, and the free range animals could either hide from the tourists or mob the cars for treats and snacks, as they wish. We could see lions take down wildebeast and fight with hyenas for the scraps. And if a rhino gets angry and stomps an SUV and occupants into mush, just bulldoze it up and let the animals carry on.
They do that to the residents of nursing homes as well. Drug them and keep them in the daze. Abilify, Seroquel, Zyprexa and Haloperidol are used as a substitute for staff, some residents are falsely diagnosed with schizophrenia to justify the use of antipsychotics.
It's shocking, abusing animals and the elderly for the sake of ratings.
Hmmm... Gonna have to introduce my wife to Prozac.
Jamie said...Zoos... I love the opportunity to see exotic animals up close and not on a screen, and I'm glad they're so much better than they used to be about types of enclosures, diet, and efforts to conceal human observers from animals. And of course their conservation work is very valuable to many species.
That last part is an underappreciated aspect of zoos--by bringing little pieces of the wild world to our urban areas, they help maintain public interest and support in preserving the wilds. The emotional cost to a handful of animals may be higher than we'd like, but the zoos' larger environmental mission is more important than a few depressed bears and monkeys.
I'm recalling a comment by Steve Irwin. I don't remember his exact words, but the sentiment was very clear. People will care and respect the things they know and are familiar. He showed off alligators to take away the mystery of them, so people would see them as something other than a danger that needed to be destroyed. I understand the problems with zoos and what some might call ethic or moral cost. However, I suspect getting rid of zoos, or other endeavors such as getting Sea World to get rid of Killer Whales, we build up a level of ignorance in society that will cause greater destruction.
As for the highlighted activities in the pull quote, perhaps it is not the lack of morality of the zoos rather than those that turn to drugs as a means to control behaviors. I'm no fan of Pfizer wanting to make new medications that allow for greater compliance, as their CEO was suggesting at Davos this year. That's an immorality I think worth detesting.
"When a female gorilla named Johari kept fighting off the male she was placed with, the zoo dosed her with Prozac until she allowed him to mate with her."
This is quite common in the suburbs too.
What do they give to the bipolar bears?
It's great that the uninsured are getting medications.
Zoos sound like Genie Leslie's house.
Or is it vice versa?
Ape rape? How far will these people go?
Right in middle of reading this about how we have to medicate kids so they can tolerate school
https://www.amazon.com/Obedience-Pills-ADHD-Medicalization-Childhood/dp/1989963242
urbanites use about 40% more anti-depressants than rural folk. somehow seems related…
https://watermark.silverchair.com/cmy085.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAsMwggK_BgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKwMIICrAIBADCCAqUGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM6iJ5V1xX_EvPPkbCAgEQgIICdhoLx8Gz-XQ8MUU7mjgaNmYWjZ_b9lb-C4tKa-NxVm-e94gefBkrhBMhZN_coL-VgyQQBz9cyafOJ2ssmL1MNul5PGycp7tyG1xNrxxZ5yfCp7RSt_W1e7PaXlcbQUCiGxiN21crS2lVOl9b2dE1MH3usbyXDU6wpGIVCzZ0KdeZiVewExuEu_rfGh7hIy4QFfqZLBDnT1YIu1vJ2WxDKYlFxanxhc3RsZpdjAuciQn9HvBEuF9-kKyhk3NXi4liRlfH5poB82MMxJXUhflOZBc1H0x5WsQ1WwyKK6S4DWBrXCXbvxuuu3toqCYJJ6WMYbGoBR55vT83GmKYF7VUdbqAzqxs1OvcmAA1izT4U_K2AhQMbrpabtJZ9BT_y-P3c5g1jMKGYPTitEYaO6VITsCMTFw6kETiVP6Cs7hXSzd3LSbRv7xhrxyUx12yW4M6eweG-MkalRzdncDs4ii0IAWuUUY7FGCQOJxfVreCADNahHjU2nrq8Fv54kIbE8GDkXmjRzEBJsRxyq8Z8_V_IlVZth2-pLReTkXMZAPfebMjNrXo0l9F32h_Ix6eGKjoqAbEV9P16Ynaax7SQ67UV7ahp6dEegKiXGaOieXZxccGQy-qjTnqcbItkZsCPoTCHZ8W_SdiomaXoC7t0VESa_TgW1iLd0MhOk6PJ6U1maZMkkbRoekg3OPOeaFoQL-CRgRwRsrQr5g8r9jMyoG0GGWA3n-xeU_r54aaU1jPMYBLz0OP1YaSGDopV7kBDUo8qxdR94cYkgK2DgZa-6lALX0ZRLW5OhGqjv6v52TrmqotLz-KrBDzYlws1QI6H93F0Rl01fsd7w
'Ape rape? How far will these people go?'
How do you think we got Monkey Pox??
What about aquariums?
Those fish just swim around looking dazed.
I am torn on this subject. Bad zoo are horrifying. There are good or at least better zoos. I think the MN Zoo is one. I think it is important for children to experience coming face to face with wild animals. Videos are not the same.
A headline like "Zoos use psychoactive drugs to calm agitated animals" just wouldn't have as much punch, would it.
@jody
Jody gets it. This is the real problem. An urbanite humanity that needs anti-depressants to get by is an urbanite humanity destined for destruction, sooner or later (I'm siding with 'later' because I'm well acquainted with urban society's capacity to indulge in self-destructive behavior ad infinitum).
There is a wall. Its existence is real. There are lots of people that will hit it. The speed they collide with it will vary. The results will also vary.
The zoo as a metaphorical and literal construct for the modern family. An epiphany? An insider's regrets? #MeToo?
If pharmacological drugs are a moral cost not worth imposing on animals, what of their use on humans? Perhaps Modern Cities Are Not Worth the Moral Cost.
The zoo is a metaphor for universities, right?
Our rescue mutt is "hyper". When we board her (has to have special boarding because she's highly reactive to other dogs etc) the vet folks say "She's crazy but fun>"
So the trainer recommended (and we agreed) that one Prozac a day would help keep her calm. I say "help" because the dog mostly has two speeds--full out and or very quiet. Our living situation (both retired, big fenced back yard etc) is such that we can keep (and enjoy) her. But she would be an impossible dog for those who live in an apartment--and even worse if she were left alone during a work day.
Prozac for critters in zoos? Unless you abolish zoos altogether you need to do what you have to or can do to make life tolerable for them.
Came here for "bipolar bears" and leaving satisfied.
Slip the panda a rufie.
People who are outraged at giving Prozac to zoo animals might be surprised to visit a nursing home.
And just how is the NYT (representing NYC) qualified to lecture on morals? And what Jeremy said.
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