Said CDC Director Rochelle Walensky at a closed-door House Energy and Commerce committee briefing on Tuesday.
Quoted at Reason in "In Leaked Audio, CDC's Rochelle Walensky Privately Confirms She Won't Relax School Mask Guidance/Walensky acknowledged 'limitations' of available studies but told a congressional committee 'our guidance currently is that masking should happen in all schools'" (Reason).
Walensky faced criticism—from members in both parties—that the CDC's guidance is confusing and out-of-step with human behavior at this stage of the pandemic. Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R–Wash.), the committee's ranking Republican member, challenged Walensky on the science behind school mask mandates, noting that the Arizona study oft-cited by the CDC in support of masking kids has been thoroughly debunked by The Atlantic....
[Walensky] acknowledged the "limitations" of the Arizona study, as well as other studies the CDC has relied upon to inform their guidance, but rejected any near-term changes on masking in schools. "[The studies] all have limitations, and that's important to recognize because we are not randomizing schools," she said. "We have to control for whether there are windows, ventilation, and other activities happening outside of these schools. So all of these studies have limitations. But they are for the most part uniformly pointing to that when there's a lot of disease out there, the masks are preventing that disease and preventing that transmission and because of that we are able to keep our schools open."
"Preventing" is a strong word, and it's especially confusing when it comes after "when there's a lot of disease out there." It feels like double-talk. And then there's "for the most part uniformly." Who speaks like that?
Walensky also talks about how it's a local decision, and local decisions can take into account local conditions, but she seems unwilling to concede that local decision-makers look to what the CDC recommends, so if the CDC's position "is that masking should happen in all schools right now," that will — in many places — override consideration of the local factors.
"I will also say that guidance is just guidance, and all of these decisions, we've continued to say, have to be made at the local level," she said. "As cases come down dramatically, we have deferred our guidance to the local jurisdictions."
It just doesn't sound straightforward: "we have deferred our guidance to the local jurisdictions." That's a very strange way to put words together — "deferred our guidance." Does she mean to say "we defer to the local jurisdictions"? "Defer" — when used to mean to submit out of deference — is an intransitive verb. The transitive verb "defer" means to put off to a later date, and they are not putting off their guidance to a later date.
I know that may sound pedantic, but I'm relaying what I researched and figured out after I had the instinctive sense — as a native speaker of English — that something was off.
Posts
109 comments:
And then there's "for the most part uniformly." Who talks like that?
Bureaucrats, that's who. Their brains work differently than the rest of us.
…because they don’t follow the science. The follow the most risk averse stance that could
Be incurred from data they themselves pick to use for their positions.
This is why public policy and science should not be confused. And health policy spokespeople
Should never say “I am science. “
pointing to that when there's a lot of disease out there, the masks are preventing that disease and preventing that transmission and because of that...
So,
As Long As; there is "a lot of disease out there" school masking will be REQUIRED to "keep our schools open"
in other words...
Since there will ALWAYS Be "a lot of disease out there", masking will ALWAYS be REQUIRED
for ever
Who talks like that?
Female bureaucrats who are having a wonderful time playing tinpot dictator, but who are otherwise in way over their head.
Anyone besides me remember when Althouse had a post where Walensky was pleading for just a couple more weeks of mask mandate? That was way more than a couple weeks ago, right?
Trust The Science!
and, The Science say: OBEY! Submit to The Will of Your Superiors!!!
Do NOT QUESTION, The Science
Obey! Obey The Science
But masks don't work.
It doesn't help that Walensky often has a deer in the headlights look when she's making these gobbly gook pronouncements.
From CBS News:
"The science demonstrates that if you are fully vaccinated, you are protected," Walensky said. "It is the people who are not fully vaccinated in those settings, who might not be wearing a mask, who are not protected. And it is those people that we are encouraging to get vaccinated and to wear a mask and to physically distance. So if you are vaccinated in those settings, you certainly could wear a mask if you wanted to, but we are saying in those settings, based on the science, that it is safe."
Link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-guideline-mask-vaccinated-covid-19/
https://nypost.com/2021/03/29/cdc-director-dr-rochelle-walensky-warns-of-impending-doom/
in That article, "Walensky urges the American public to “hold on a little longer” and follow public health mandates." March, 29th, 2021
The Reason Why, it's SO IMPORTANT, to follow The Science...
Is because The Science changes its path every few days; so if you don't closely follow; you'll lose The Science
The double speak is they are issuing a one-size-fits-all recommendation and then trying to explain away the lack of solid evidence with "every situation is different."
If every situation is different, then their recommendations should reflect that.
The science says children aren't in danger UNLESS they're immuno-compromised or share the same comorbidities that kills older people- like morbid obesity.
Masking children is child abuse, plain and simple. Sanctioned by government makes it akin to a war crime- and war crimes are punished by execution. And I'm all in favor of some trials right now.
Apologies to Gene Kranz, but from a standpoint of status, what do we got in the Federal government that's good?
If you've ever eaten a Thanksgiving turkey that wasn't a dry, smoking ruin, you've disobeyed CDC guidance. Their recommendations are always ridiculously over cautious.
Does it matter to any of these people that kids just don't get seriously ill from Covid? We're talking .1% of all hospitalizations for covid are kids (this from the 24 states even bothering to report this stuff anymore). This is insanity. I am pretty sure we have higher percentages of kids being hospitalized for any number of other things.
You've got multiple countries in Europe free of masks. Many US states are now free of masks- or at least leaving it to the parents.
As I've mentioned before- Walensky wears a constant panicked look on her face giving light to where she's coming from. I don't know if it's the job or her fear of speaking in front of the camera, or just that she fears all disease and seriously thinks that everyone should just stay home going forward. But I have to say, this is not the face you want on the Director of the CDC. A confident, calming look would go much further to get people to 'follow'. Of course, actual consistency in 'following the science' would go even further. But this "everybody run! You are all in great danger!" look on Walensky's face as she mumbles through another diktat is insane.
My sense is that when people start repeating bureaucratese, they know they are on shaky ground. When they speak plainly, they are more confident in their position.
In this case, "guidance" is bureaucratese. In a slightly different context -- FAA certification -- "guidance" means something that the government accepts as broadly sufficient to meet legal requirements, even when it technically does not. There may be too many laws and regulations to reasonably check whether some action or product follows all of them. People realize this happens often, so the government issues "guidance". The "guidance" acts like a get-out-of-jail-free card: If you follow the guidance, and don't do something egregious (like repeatedly lie, which is what got Boeing's 747 Max flight engineer in trouble), you escape prosecution. But if you decide not to follow the "guidance", it is entirely at your own risk.
The same basic problem occurs in this context. In both cases, "guidance" is ends up almost as strong as "requirement" or "direction" in practice.
“ after I had the instinctive sense”
Speaking of pedantic, I think you mean intuitive.
To add to the stupidity of the CDC, our local school district demands that 5 year-olds wear masks for a basketball clinic because it is being held in a school building after school has ended.
Last night, local news here in CT, with the latest statistics from the State of CT: "positivity rate" 4.5%, hospitalized 348 persons. Of that number, 48% are "not fully vaccinated." Stated with much complacency, as if proving the need to be fully vaccinated.
If 48 percent of the hospitalized are "not fully vaccinated," then 52% are "fully vaccinated."
That is, a majority of the hospitalized have had both the initial shots and a booster.
And of the "not fully vaxxed", how many have the initial vaxxinations, but haven't had the booster? (which "Science" tells us doesn't work on the Omicron).
And they constantly run state-funded ads pushing the shots for kids.
Idiocy.
I am old enough to be somewhat at risk, although I am thin, physically fit and generally healthy. I got vaccinated, because it makes sense for me as a health measure. I also got the shingles vaccine a few years ago, because as you get older it becomes a greater risk, and I'm going to get the newer version soon.
Sensible, "Science-based" policy would be tailored to common sense.
Temujin said...I am pretty sure we have higher percentages of kids being hospitalized for any number of other things.
A year or so ago, after the first round of school closures, someone did the statistical work to show that children are more likely to die in a bus accident on the way to school than they are from COVID they caught at school.
What we have seen in the population is that when the masks are imposed, cases go up and then they go down, and where there are no mask requirements, cases go up and then they go down.
You can see it coming in Illinois. Jabba the Gov is going to say, "We conquered COVID because we held the course with masks and vaccination checks." But when we had those things, cases went up and then they went down. My friends in Florida don't have mask and vaccination requirements, and cases went up and then they went down.
This is pure performance ("We did something!") rather than effective public health, and it has real negative effects.
Sheesh.
I had the instinctive sense that something was off.
I want that on my tombstone.
Temujin said...
Walensky wears a constant panicked look on her face giving light to where she's coming from...
don't know if it's the job or her fear of speaking in front of the camera, or just that she fears all disease and seriously thinks that everyone should just stay home going forward...
But this "everybody run! You are all in great danger!" look on Walensky's face as she mumbles through another diktat is insane.
The first time i ever even heard of Walensky was March of Last year, when ...
Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), issued a dire warning of a sense of "impending doom"
I hate to sound like rhhardin,
but women like Walensky need to go back into the kitchen, and leave decisions to MEN
Walensky is offering guidance that can easily be spun as needed for the upcoming election. Dems from districts that want masking to end can get on that band wagon. Dems from districts where they are clinging to their masks can take that position. Both can point to "The Science."
The CDC and teachers’ unions have put our young children at risk for two years now.
They are doing it TO the children and it must stop.
Shorter version: The CDC is a faith-based organization.
"Speaking of pedantic, I think you mean intuitive."
I'll alert Steven Pinker.
You've got multiple countries in Europe free of masks. Many US states are now free of masks- or at least leaving it to the parents.
Iowa schools came back into session for the new school year August, 2020. Masks were a local decision. Lots of smaller schools made masks, an individual choice. The larger schools (much further removed from parents) eliminated risk assessment from their decision, and took the easy way out. Mandatory masks. This is no surprise from the culture that invented "zero tolerance" policies. Facts and nuance are intentionally removed from the decision making process. Face it. Educrats, are lazy and scared. They will make the easiest decisions, and hide behind, rules, process, and exaggerated claims of safety.
But the reason I brought up Iowa's experience was to demonstrate that across the Nation, thousands of schools are well into 1.5 years of no masks in the class room. That experiment, has shown no increase health risk to persons attending those schools.
That data set is being ignored.
Health is not the agenda.
Tell the officials in California who are forcing children in schools to wear them, but refuse to wear them, themselves. Hypocrites trying to control people. Rules for thee, but none for me. Screw them all...make up your own mind. If you want to wear one, wear one, if you don't then don't. THEY aren't better than we are. Screw them.
‘Thoroughly debunked by The Atlantic’ is never a strong debate point…
Is there a compelling reason to follow CDC's guidance? Nope.
"...we have deferred our guidance to the local jurisdictions."
Maybe that's just a transcription error?
"We have deaf-eared our guidance to the local jurisdictions."
FIFY
The CDC and teachers’ unions have put our young children at risk for two years now.
It isn’t difficult to imagine CDC is taking orders from the teachers union.
“… It just doesn't sound straightforward: "we have deferred our guidance to the local jurisdictions." That's a very strange way to put words together — "deferred our guidance." Does she mean to say "we defer to the local jurisdictions"? "Defer" — when used to mean to submit out of deference — is an intransitive verb. The transitive verb "defer" means to put off to a later date, and they are not putting off their guidance to a later date.”
We have deferred (our guidance) to…
“Defer to” has a different meaning than “to defer”.
That’s how I read it…
Disturbing, but not difficult…
gilbar at 6:36 links the first thing I thought of:
"I’m gonna lose the script and I’m going to reflect on the recurring feeling I have of impending doom....right now I’m scared.”
When I heard that – played over and over again on news radio – I thought, Can you please resign, then, so we can get someone made of sterner stuff into this important position?
Now teach students how to do Critical Mask Theory.
Pedophrasty is a great way to get people to suspend judgment. So powerful it has to be used by scammers.” Nasim Nicholas Taleb
"Walensky acknowledged 'limitations' of available studies"
Actually, the limitations are rather severe.
"the Arizona study oft-cited by the CDC in support of masking kids has been thoroughly debunked by The Atlantic...."
Right. The CDC's handling of it just illustrates their mendacity.
"[Walensky] acknowledged the "limitations" of the Arizona study, as well as other studies the CDC has relied upon"
Including their own, way back before vaxxing, showing no significant effect of student masking in GA schools.
""Preventing" is a strong word, and it's especially confusing when it comes after "when there's a lot of disease out there." It feels like double-talk."
It is. Of course, it's been that way from the beginning. Nothing "prevents" Omicron from spreading.
"And then there's "for the most part uniformly." Who speaks like that?"
A dissembling bureaucrat.
"It just doesn't sound straightforward . . . something was off."
Just about everything in "guidance" by "experts" and agencies has been "off" from the beginning. But they straightforwardly imposed measures that made no difference at great cost. A public health agency that demands an eviction moratorium cuz WuFlu will do and say anything.
Question asked:
If the CDC was trying to discredit itself, what would it be doing differently?
These are our guidelines and if you don’t like them, well, we have others.
The science is that the teachers unions insist on the masks.
"Well, you made a long journey from Milan to Minsk, Rochelle, Rochelle. You never stopped hoping; now you're in a Pinsk, Rochelle, Rochelle. When the naysayers 'nay' you picked up your pace. You said nothing's going to stop me so get out of my face. I'm having adventures all over the place, Rochelle, ROCHELLE!"
Covid is over. My immune compromised daughter got it a week ago on a business trip. She immediately started taking zinc, glutathione, NAC and vitamin D3+K2 that I bought for her almost 2-years ago . No symptoms. Tested clear after 5-days.
My wife can finally breathe again.
That look on Rochelle's face is her disappointment that Biden's promised "dark winter of disease and death" had fizzled.
Here it is mid-February and deaths are already declining. How are they going to continue building a fascist society with this kind of good news?
They will try.
There’s a CDC Gel-Mann amnesia effect. You can look at the guidelines on other subjects, e.g., alcohol, and realize that it’s malarkey, but then look at the COVID-19 guidelines and pretend they are scientific or authoritative.
What a fucking joke and a slap in the face to science. This is cruel and mean to children. Child abuse.
Does this woman have school age children?
Walenksy is 52 and has 3 children; ages unknown.
It's not remotely surprising that all the studies would show that masks prevent disease, as (1) the conclusion of these studies were reached before any data were collected, and (2) any studies that showed the opposite would not be considered.
"For the most part uniformly" is self contradictory. It is self referentially incoherent.
"These little bastards are going to kill us all!" is a firm, unshakable belief among many teachers. Primarily women. Childless women.
This notion that all the teachers would love to see the smiling faces of their students up close and personal if not for the unions is bull.
The funny thing is that condoms worked, or at least were pretty reliable, but you didn't have the CDC and financial institutions and politicians and activists out there threatening unemployment or seized bank accounts or social shunning if men, especially gay men, refused to use them. The public health strategy was to walk on eggshells, make ornate excuses for dissenters, and ensure that nobody would ever be forced to reveal his HIV status to the twink he picked up a a public bathroom, let alone be forced to admit his status to his employer.
Of course methods of transmission dictated some of these special privileges bestowed on gay men. But they also fought like hell and so weren't asked to stop donating blood until well into the epidemic, essentially murdering thousands of hemophiliacs. HIV was officially excluded from other STD tracing laws. And that was pure political pressure on their behalf. Everything was dictated by coddling them. And now we have government officials threatening the maskless with loss of bank accounts and jobs and homes.
This COVID episode will inoculate our society against "science," government bureaucrats and Karen.
Australia is getting a particularly strong dose of Karen and Government and Science right now.
I wonder if it is too strong.
I look forward to Trudeau's trial.
There’s a lot of disease out there….
That disease is the mind-numbing subjugation to the teachers unions, most notably in the form of Randi Weingarten. Seriously what will happen if everyone ignores them? Whether it’s masks, mandating children get vaccinated, CRT, etc. they are just plain wrong.
Stop what you’re doing and watch this.
Kids at a Las Vegas elementary school burst out into cheers after learning they no longer have to wear a mask to school
You pussy adults taught children that masks were too hard to handle. Coddling youth is the real child abuse.
The look in this woman's eyes recalls a small plane in distress, circling and circling with no landing instructions and no place to land. She is just smart enough to sense that she is a pawn of some kind in an enterprise much larger than her fiefdom at the CDC.
@gilbar,
"but women like Walensky need to go back into the kitchen, and leave decisions to MEN"
I feel the need to point out that the "MEN" ain't exactly covering themselves in glory, here, or doing much of a better job.
I am developing a thesis that we'd be better off outsourcing a lot of our political and governance to random baboon troops in East Africa. I'm not sure how they could possibly do worse than the crew of elitist hack incompetents we've put in charge.
"Does it matter to any of these people that kids just don't get seriously ill from Covid?"
The fact that this is ignored by the CDC is what makes me so angry I want to spit.
Where I live, I'm only required to wear a mask going to the doctors. And that short amount of time is annoying. Masks are itchy, and can make it hard to breathe well, and hard to understand what people are saying. I can't imagine what these poor kids go through having to wear one all day. It's child abuse. It needs to stop.
Browndog said...
Kids at a Las Vegas elementary school burst out into cheers after learning they no longer have to wear a mask to school
happy kids :)
our government (and country) is ran by geriatric millionaires and billionaires
Those richie rich grannies have destroyed an entire generation of young people...
young people that we are going to NEED, for the upcoming conflicts with China.
Those richie rich grannies don't CARE, 'cause they'll be dead in a few years.
I am not so fortunate. I'm not young; but i'm not so old that i think covid justifies ruining our country. Damn those oldsters.... Damn them right to Hell!
takirks points out that...
the "MEN" ain't exactly covering themselves in glory, here, or doing much of a better job.
Yep, and That's the problem with repealing the 19th amendment... We're ALL skirtboys now
Keep in mind that people who're good at something enjoy doing it and stick with it. That's particularly true of medicine. Good doctors like caring for patients and stay in patient care. It's the ones who poor at medicine—either because they lack clinical judgment or deal poorly with patients—who go into administrative roles. That is what we are seeing here.
Imagine that instead of masking in schools the topic is treating an illness you have. Would you listen to this CDC director with her vague, muddled remarks if she was your physician? I wouldn't.
CDC Jerkoff: "But they are for the most part uniformly pointing to that when there's a lot of disease out there, the masks are preventing that disease and preventing that transmission and because of that we are able to keep our schools open."
1: There's always a lot of disease out there
2: The claim that the masks prevent the disease being spread among school kids is a garbage claim, as Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers correctly pointed out.
3: "We" are keeping schools open only to the extent that politicians are more afraid of parents than the "teachers" union. Masks are just the pound of flesh being extracted from the parents for winning
"Preventing" is a strong word, and it's especially confusing when it comes after "when there's a lot of disease out there." It feels like double-talk. And then there's "for the most part uniformly." Who speaks like that?
Who speaks like that? Someone who's lying, and knows he's lying, but doesn't care.
And it feels like double-talk. because it is
And then there's "for the most part uniformly." Who talks like that?
Con-men. Hucksters. Crooks. Fraudsters.
Guys trying to tell you their sister is "for the most part uniformly" a good girl in a third world dump.
Howard said...
You pussy adults taught children that masks were too hard to handle. Coddling youth is the real child abuse.
Poor Howard, always getting everything backwards.
1: it's pussy "adult" "teachers" who are demanding the useless masks
2: The masks are worthless shit, worn in observance of a religion that only fucked up people like you belong to
3: "Coddling youth is the real child abuse": I'm going to have fun remembering that you claimed to believe that, so I can shove it down your throat the next time you get on the other side of that one
4: Coddling pathetic "adults" is the real child abuse here. "Teachers" want to pretend that they're important people who are part of the cool laptop class. Well, they're not
If masking actually prevented disease transmission in schools, they'd have real studies proving it, not that Arizona trash. The fact that he's sticking with the Arizona trash tells anyone with a functioning brain that it's all politics, and zero science
"This is why public policy and science should not be confused. And health policy spokespeople should never say “I am science.“
Well, what would you expect? At that moment he probably thought he was bigger than the Beatles.
Female bureaucrats who are having a wonderful time playing tinpot dictator, but who are otherwise in way over their head.
That's pretty much everyone in government. IMO.
Otherwise her yammering was BS, as usual. As someone else noted, the bulk of the mask studies have been crap ("limitations") that no one in their right mind (which obviously leaves out most in government and academia) would use to fashion any sort of proactive policy, and the fact that "they all point in the same direction" is really just publication bias in action. Which they conveniently paid attention to when it was ivermectin or hydrochloroquine on the docket.
"Tell the officials in California who are forcing children in schools to wear them, but refuse to wear them, themselves. Hypocrites trying to control people."
Yes, this type of hypocrisy is a scandal for Boris Johnson in England. But Americans just don't care. I guess we've been conditioned to just accept hypocrisy from our ruling class.
Why not just compare the CV-19 rates between the states and jurisdictions that have masks and those that dont? Shouldn't there be a MASSIVE difference? And if they're not, doesn't that proven that mask wearing is useless?
What's obvious it the CDC is not FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE. They either don't have SCIENCE and are guessing, or they're ignoring the science of what's happening in other countires.
That's whats so amazing about the CDC and the MSM. We're not the whole world. We're not the only ones fighting CDC. Almost every Country in the world has been battling CV-19, Scandavia has done better than everyone else. Why not see what they've done. Israel has clamped down and not done well. Why?
But all we get is this blinkered dumb rhetoric.
It's frustrating to read this, because I was strongly in favour of masks as an NPI back in 2020 (over lockdowns), but (1) there's never been any evidence that masking up short of airtight N95 or higher masks would actually prevent transmission, as opposed to merely reducing the likelihood of transmission, but American mask advocates regularly treat masks like they're magic, (2) mask mandates in the US have been worthless because you can satisfy them with a cloth mask, which is ineffective other than maybe to contain your expectorate somewhat if you cough, shout, or sneeze, and (3) mask mandates in the US have also been mostly symbolic because the most fervent mask supporters in the US have tended to be pretty lackadaisical about actually wearing masks consistently in practice, hence the constant stream of the images of pro-mask politicians going around with their masks off while they breathe in peoples' faces. Perhaps because they regard it as a kind of magic talisman, a cargo cult imitation of the way places like Taiwan and South Korea contained spread pre-vaccine.
But perhaps the most important, (4), it's been apparent for over a year that the risk to children from coronavirus is minimal -- unvaccinated, they still have lower risk of hospitalization or death than me, with my three doses of Pfizer. Given that mask mandates as implemented do nothing to reduce, let alone prevent transmission, and vaccines are widely available, there's no logical basis for widespread mask mandates anymore. Mandating surgical or N95 in certain particularly vulnerable settings, like nursing homes, sure, I would still be open to that. Wearing a mask when you're ill with a cold or the flu or corona? That would be great! People should do that anyway. But schoolchildren are just about the lowest risk group there are. They don't need any of this.
Re: TreeJoe:
because they don’t follow the science. The follow the most risk averse stance that could
Be incurred from data they themselves pick to use for their positions.
But this isn't even the case. The masks they're talking about range from highly effective (airtight N95 respirator) to completely ineffective (cloth mask). If they were opting for maximum risk aversion, they would be recommending that local governments all tighten mask requirements to N95. They're not. Their policy doesn't even make sense through the lens of risk aversion.
The government’s guidance is always going to be “let’s exercise as much control as possible over the citizens whom we’re authorized to exercise control over” it’s for their own good, and choosing to do nothing is simply not an option.
@Balfegor at 0944-
It's not about controlling the virus, or keeping people healthy. Obviously, they don't practice what they force down on us proles.
It's about power, about controlling other people.
Paraphrasing the late PJ O'Rourke-
"The worse thing about politicians is that they are not in it for the money."
Howard said...
You pussy adults taught children that masks were too hard to handle. Coddling youth is the real child abuse.
I can't improve on greg the class traitor's response to this idiocy. Howard lives in an imaginary world where he is the smartest kid in class.
The only science behind masks is political science and that is about to "change" as the election nears.
Children with normal immune systems are at zero risk from this virus. Teachers used to love kids back when the unions did not exist. Now, Albert Shanker tells us the attitude of today's union teachers. "When children pay union dues, I will care about children."
I sent my children to private schools because I could afford it. Some of their favorite teachers had quit public schools and taught for less money because they loved teaching.
Nice defense of snowflakery.
@gilbar,
"Yep, and That's the problem with repealing the 19th amendment... We're ALL skirtboys now"
In my opinion, sliding this argument over to the sex of the idiot bureaucrat under discussion is a distraction. I don't think you'd be seeing better results from a male, a gay, or a transsexual of similar mental deficiency.
You get down to it, bureaucratic stupidity transcends everything. The Chinese mandarin class that drove Imperial China to ruin were universally male, and universally idiots in the face of a changing world. To focus on their sex instead of their essential incapacity to make good decisions...? A mistake.
In the end, the 19th Amendment is meaningless in terms of influencing bad decisions. Women voters were going to get their influence, one way or another--If only by means of sexual blackmail or influencing their sons as they raised them. All that really changed with the 19th was that it got things out in the open.
Of course, the argument can also be made that it effectively doubled the influence of women on the course of national affairs--Not only did they have their traditional paths of influence, they also got the direct vote.
On the whole, I suspect that future analysts of history will no doubt ascribe a lot of our failures and problems to the concept of universal suffrage, rights without commensurate responsibilities. If you've got no skin in the game, and aren't paying the bills...? Why not vote yourself largess from the public fisc?
Similarly, another issue we have is that our representatives are not held accountable for their decisions. Were you to say that running a deficit with the national budget meant that the Congress responsible for such a crime against good governance would be personally responsible for making up the difference...? Oh, I think you'd see some different choices made, with the budget. The fact that government service is now a better way to make money than running a business or hard work? That's where we've screwed up--Not in giving the right to vote to women.
It's about power.
Why can't people see that?
From CBS News:
"The science demonstrates that if you are fully vaccinated, you are protected," Walensky said. "It is the people who are not fully vaccinated in those settings, who might not be wearing a mask, who are not protected. And it is those people that we are encouraging to get vaccinated and to wear a mask and to physically distance. So if you are vaccinated in those settings, you certainly could wear a mask if you wanted to, but we are saying in those settings, based on the science, that it is safe."
None of that is true. She is lying through her teeth.
"The science demonstrates that if you are fully vaccinated, you are protected,"
Nope. We have known since July that the vaccines were fairly leaky. Remember the P Town Superspreader event? Things have only gotten worse, with Omicron, with its slightly different spike proteins - which is what these vaccines target. No surprise, respiratory viruses mutate quickly around leaky vaccines (According to Dr Malone, it has something to do with the robustness of the infection mechanism - the more robust, the easier it is for mutations to survive).
"It is the people who are not fully vaccinated in those settings, who might not be wearing a mask, who are not protected…”
Regular masking by the public does diddly squat for their protection. For kids, masks are even worse, acting as virus and bacteria catchers, constantly reintroducing them to the contagions they expelled earlier. The big problem is that regular surgical type masks are designed to address droplet dispersal. That is fine when symptomatic people are coughing. But they are usually self quarantining. It is the pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic spread that is the problem, from those out and about, because it is primarily by aerosols, which are an order of magnitude smaller than the holes in the masks.
The masks aren’t that safe. The vaccines are definitely dangerous, and the risk seems to rise as age decreases. There, is, in fact, no valid or viable public health reason to vaccinate anyone younger than maybe 50, absent well identified comorbidities, like morbid obesity. It doesn’t make them any safer (because they aren’t going to die from the virus), and the vaccines are ineffective long run, and are dangerous.
One of my fellow Oncologists spent a few years on staff at the CDC before he trained in our field.
He always refers to the CDC as the "Center for Disease Confusion."
Walensky seems like a perfect fit for that organization.
The evidence I have for my policy is crap, but the fact that I really like my policy is all the evidence I need.
To be fair, that's how journalism works these days as well.
"Guidance" is, by definition, not required. It is not an order. It is advice. One can choose to follow the guidance or not follow it. Either choice thus constitutes "compliance" with the guidance, however. Requiring masking in schools (though it is child abuse, which may run afoul of other laws) is compliance with the CDC Covid guidelines. Not mandating masks in schools (i.e., not child abuse) is also compliance, though it is complying with the voluntary nature of the guidance, not the mask part.
Part of our return to normalcy, as Americans, is getting back to the point where we can freely ignore whatever scolding this hyper-politicized garbage agency does, and instead be happy.
.125 micron = size of Corona Virus. Package says "Not For Prevention of Disease". "Made in China". Zero requirement for Bio-Hazard disposal of contaminated mask. Thousands of metric tons of contaminated materials world wide. Conclusion: She is so full of shit her hair is brown.
“In this case, "guidance" is bureaucratese. In a slightly different context -- FAA certification -- "guidance" means something that the government accepts as broadly sufficient to meet legal requirements, even when it technically does not.”
It is essentially bureaucratese or proclamations that have not gone through APA Notice and Comment review (at the federal level), and are thus not entitled to any judicial deference. They are, thus, bureaucrats pulling something from their nether regions. Sometimes you can hold the agency to it’s issued guidances, but they can’t legally hold you to them. Actually, they are even below Rules, (which also didn’t go through APA Rulemaking either). About all you can say is that if you follow their Guidance, say for tax matters, and it turns out that you did violate the law, they will have a very hard time proving intentional violation of that law. Which, for taxes, usually means no jail time for tax evasion. You were wrong, but you weren’t intentionally wrong. Insert the scene in Animal House:
“Otter: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You fucked up... you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help. Flounder: [crying] That's easy for you to say! What am I going to tell Fred? Otter: I'll tell you what. We'll tell Fred you were doing a great job taking care of his car, but you parked it ...”
>>Who talks like that?
Weasels.
Moondawggie said:
"One of my fellow Oncologists spent a few years on staff at the CDC before he trained in our field.
He always refers to the CDC as the "Center for Disease Confusion."
Walensky seems like a perfect fit for that organization."
I used to work with an Army Nuclear-Biological-Chemical officer who'd been trained as a microbiologist/epidemiologist, and who had fairly extensive experience working at USAMRIID and with the various other government agencies like the CDC. When I knew him, it was back before the whole post-9/11 anthrax fiasco.
The interesting thing was, he pretty much laid out the likely course of any such crisis as the anthrax attacks, and went on to say that the whole of the government's disease-control operation was infested with time-serving incompetent hacks like Fauci, who he named back then as being primarily responsible for the inept AIDS response. It was his take that the vast majority of really competent people had gotten tired of dealing with the Faucis in government service, seen the filthy lucre to be made out in biotech, and nearly all of them had left government service for greener pastures.
I wasn't surprised at all when the CDC sent unqualified people with the wrong equipment and then made really stupid decisions about the people on that Japanese cruise ship. That's what the government does, because they're not about the job, they're about the institution. We shouldn't be surprised to get piss-poor results out of organizations full of perverse incentives, where the participants aren't held accountable.
You want to understand why the CDC is what it is? Go look at what happened to the idiots responsible for the Gold King Mine "wastewater spill". See any of them that were held accountable...? Anybody go to jail? Anyone made to pay for the cleanup? Nope; they all kept their jobs, and even got promoted.
Incompetence and venality is what we reward, in government. Are you surprised to see it demonstrated? Has anyone, anywhere in government been held accountable for malfeasance and incompetence? Look at the recent history of the various law enforcement agencies, and then explain to me why on earth you expect better from the CDC?
Kids are virtually immune from covid and the teachers are all vaccinated. Wearing a mask interferes with socializing by the kids. Please explain, CDC, why masks in schools? I think it is simply because they are bowing to the teacher unions.
started taking zinc, glutathione, NAC and vitamin D3+K2 that
Just think how much easier life would have been if we could have chosen to take Hydroxy or ivermectin, along with vitamin D
“ Otherwise her yammering was BS, as usual. As someone else noted, the bulk of the mask studies have been crap ("limitations") that no one in their right mind (which obviously leaves out most in government and academia) would use to fashion any sort of proactive policy, and the fact that "they all point in the same direction" is really just publication bias in action. Which they conveniently paid attention to when it was ivermectin or hydrochloroquine on the docket.”
I had a number of masking discussions with my STEM PhD kid, who would cite published articles supposedly showing the efficacy of masks. Of course, these articles ignored that most people don’t use masks properly (including frequently discarding them). But most of them weren’t statistical studies, but rather based on tests of models (sound familiar?) assuming droplet dispersal. What’s wrong with that? As I noted above - droplets aren’t how the virus mostly spreads in public. You mostly expel droplets when you are coughing, and that is when you are symptomatic, home, self quarantined, in bed. Rather, it mostly is spread through aerosols when you are presymptomatic and asymptomatic. Aerosols more than an order of magnitude smaller than the holes in typical surgical masks. I would reply to their articles with: “Model, not statistical, assumes droplet dispersal”.
So, I was encouraged at their wedding this year over Labor Day weekend. During the outdoor rehearsal, the only people wearing (hand made cloth) masks were their mother and step-father, seated as far as they could be, in the bright sun, with a 5 mph wind. Getting on the bus after the rehearsal, kid started putting on their mask, and noticed that no one else on the bus was masked, and so didn’t. Helping was that every one in their side of the wedding party had a doctorate degree (two medical, rest PhDs). At the wedding itself, the only ones masked (again, outdoors, in bright sunlight) were the two mothers, and their step father. After that ride back from the rehearsal, never saw either my kid, or their spouse masked. I think that, just maybe, my message got through. Finally.
@takirks - Well said.
I think of it as DMV workers making medical decisions.
Perhaps she was reading a script provided by the NEA and AFT. That would explain the poor grammar.
The CDC has beclowned itself over a virus that has proved to be only moderately deadly, and deadly mostly to the elderly and immunocompromised. When a truly awful virus comes along, one that kills the young and healthy as easily as it kills the old and sickly, we’ll all be dead due to the CDC’s incompetence.
Bureaucrats always follow the ancient advice:
"When in danger
Or in doubt:
Run in circles,
scream and shout"
(Source: an inscription in hieroglyphics entitled "advice to bureaucrats" found on an ancient Egyptian stele."
"Tell me I should never listen to a goddamn word you say without telling me I should never listed to a goddamn word you say."
Rochelle Walensky is the misbegotten offspring of Howard Hughes and the Peleton Woman. If she hadn't done so much damage with her incompetent passivity, I'd actually feel sorry for her. She has the perpetual facial expression of a dog that gets beaten twice a week for reasons that it can't begin to unravel.
So the CDC is allowing the Teachers' Union to run the decision-making on masks? OK, got it. To hell with that, and to hell with them all, especially the Teachers' Union.
Going on three years of this shit and there are still people who think masks work.
Insane.
The science and physics of masks does not support her guidance, and, in fact, established through controlled studies in trained populations that masks break even at best, and increase transmission when using anything less than N95 certified respirators over a limited time and space, and with proper disposal.
Appeal to empathy, argument through authority, follow the cargo cult (e.g. visible physical barrier), and viable legal indemnity (e.g. keep women appointed, available, and taxable).
Yes to everything Balfegor said at 9:44 AM
Bruce Hayden at 10:22 AM made the rubble bounce nicely
takirks at 10:49 AM finished it off nicely
Thanks to clean water antibiotics, "public health" became a field for people who had MDs, but absolutely no competence. because what they did really didn't matter.
Then along came AIDS, where the response was so politicized and screwed up that anyone who was there for ideals, left.
Leaving us with the crap we've had for the last 2+ years
You want crazy? I'll give you crazy.
The Board of Health in the town of Belmont just west of Boston decided last week to end its mask mandate as of March 1. The Board's leader said at the public meeting that her decision would apply to the schools.
But the School Committee head said in another public meeting that they would make *their* decision only after the upcoming school break. They plan to send the kids home with test kids to bring back after the break to be analyzed for case load---even though the B of H said it would be focusing not on cases, but on severe illness and hospitalization.
IOW Bureaucratic conflict.
THEN came the bombshell: the School committee poohbah announced that a Memorandum of Agrement with the local teacher's union required the school to negotiate removal of the mask mandate with the union!
IOW two organizations, one public and the other private---and neither with any experience or competence dealing with public health issues---will determine whether the masks will come off.
I said it's crazy, and it is.
What the CDC provides is lies and propaganda. If you are suffering from an overload of factual information, or an insufficiency of propaganda, the CDC can help.
You pussy adults taught children that masks were too hard to handle.
Howard, you bending over so some authority figure can fuck you up the ass is the very definition of a pussy.
CDC guidance also says you shouldn't eat food with uncooked eggs or rare steak. Too bad the children don't get to decide for themselves.
takirks said:
"the whole of the government's disease-control operation was infested with time-serving incompetent hacks like Fauci, who he named back then as being primarily responsible for the inept AIDS response."
My oncology partner who worked there agrees: For decades he's referred to Fauci as "Phony Tony." A true swamp creature.
He calls going inside the Beltway "entering the reality-free zone." Even Rod Serling would be afraid of that place.
Hmmm! Cruel neutrality having a buyer’s remorse?
I wish these gotta do something folks would spend time in schools watching how kids actually deploy these talismans.
Land of the "half-diaper".
(Butt better science behind real diapers)
Mask requirements in pubic schools have helped out a lot of private and parochial schools with mask optional.
When you are covering your ass, you can't afford to be real precise with words.
And you wonder why there's a 'trust problem'?
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