১৩ জানুয়ারী, ২০২২
"Stewart Rhodes, the leader and founder of the far-right Oath Keepers militia, was arrested on Thursday and charged with seditious conspiracy for organizing a wide-ranging plot to storm the Capitol..."
"... last Jan. 6 and disrupt the certification of Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s electoral victory, federal law enforcement officials said.... Mr. Rhodes, a former Army paratrooper who went on to earn a law degree at Yale, has been under investigation for his role in the riot since at least last spring when, against the advice of his lawyer, he sat down with F.B.I. agents for an interview in Texas. He was at the Capitol on Jan. 6, communicating by cellphone and a chat app with members of his team, many of whom went into the building. But there is no evidence that he entered the Capitol.... In an interview with The New York Times this summer, Mr. Rhodes expressed frustration that several members of his group had 'gone off mission' by entering the Capitol on Jan. 6, quickly adding, 'There were zero instructions from me or leadership to do so.' But at least four Oath Keepers who were at the Capitol that day and are cooperating with the government have sworn in court papers that the group intended to breach the building with the goal of obstructing the final certification of the Electoral College vote...."
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That's funny.
We think he is a fed.
I fail to see where the sedition is. Protesting is not sedition. That Congress might have been prevented is spurious since Congress turned down requests for additional law enforcement assistance offered by the president and the entrants into the House were let in by some of the guards, no different then when Democrats allow protestors to disrupt hearings. This is malicious prosecution and yet another example of why qualified immunity has to go.
If they can prove it in court, he should go to prison for a long time, but I hope they have actual evidence besides the word of people who are under extreme duress. Some corroboration would be nice.
Blah, blah, blah...all of these groups are 50% feds/informants.
Just wait until the FBI and the DOJ start going after the BLM/Antifa rioters/arsonists who attacked and burned down courthouses, police stations, private businesses, and assaulted law enforcement officers...
*snort*
Sure....
Some more careful editing of the 302s?
But, of COURSE he was!!
I just deleted a screed. Back from rosary and am going to pray some more for enlightenment upon the brainwashed…
What a world.
Yale Law?
No insurrection. No evidence of forced entry. No collusion. One unarmed woman (in a prone position) aborted with plausible cause, an invitation summarily withdrawn, a riot (disorder) forced, people attacked with prejudice, a probable Whitmer-closet. Political Conspiracy (PC) has a chilling effect.
"I fail to see where the sedition is."
All that matters is whether it fits the language of the statute, which includes many things that we might not naturally use the word "sedition" for:
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
'All that matters is whether it fits the language of the statute, which includes many things that we might not naturally use the word "sedition" for:'
That's a helluva broad law...you could fit a lot of stuff into that...
Ray Epps still roams free. Odd, that?
Ray Epps is on video asking people to go into the capitol building.
Protesting is not sedition.
Depends on what you're protesting, racist.
and chicago lets out murderers
and is proud about it.
Probably had to hustle that out to the press to get some stray voltage going and cover up the speech yesterday, the going down in flames of the federalization of elections, the semi-loss at the SC for the OSHA mandate, the highest inflation rate in 40 years, the "unexpected" rise in unemployment claims, etc. etc.
Let's watch and see what story gets highlighted in the Dem's propaganda organs. How much you want to bet it isn't inflation, unemployment, or Kristin Synema?
From twitter, my understanding is that the indictment is specifically referring to this phrase of the statute: force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States
If so, wouldn't the government have to show that execution of a law was prevented, hindered or delayed? Given that EC vote was certified is that really delayed? The statute for certification doesn't specify a time for certification, just a date. It was certified on that date.
at least four Oath Keepers who were at the Capitol that day and are cooperating with the government
And almost certainly were "cooperating" with the feds long before and acting at the government's instructions.
When, against the advice of his lawyer, he sat down with F.B.I. agents for an interview in Texas.
Protip: NEVER talk to the feds, EVER
Also, Where is Ray Epps?
oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States...
Now, do the Portland Antefa
Then do the Supreme Court protesters
Obviously the Government is going to try to use some FORCE of its own in trying to bully the defendants into some plea agreement. Or simply imprison them in some dark hole for a year or two without trial. Then when it gets to trial, the cases will fall apart for lack of evidence of the primary elements charged.
I guess his handlers were not satisfied with that stupid interview.
All the people who talked to feds without a lawyer would like a word with him. From prison.
There has yet to be a trial, even a date set in most cases, of anyone charged in J6.
Don't expect a trial here either. He's probably a fed, sacrificed to further the agenda. They now have their "Trump insurrectionists charged with sedition!" headline.
The Democrats may take this show to Broadway…
Fucking mutts.
"All that matters is whether it fits the language of the statute"
Gonna go with a "no" here. The plain language of the statute speaks to opposing the authority of the government by force. Resisting arrest ≠ sedition.
now do Ray Epps
No chance of a fair trial in DC. Sadly.
Trump proved that the courts won't adjudicate election fraud so the last place it must be is where Congress votes to approve the elector slate and explicitly decide whether it's in doubt. Nope, it isn't adjudicated there either. Nobody ever rules of election fraud. It just happens.
I assume the terrorism is in encouraging Congress to decide what hadn't yet been decided. They decided not to.
A decent chain of custody for votes would be nice, if somebody in office wants to do something useful for the next one.
When, against the advice of his lawyer, he sat down with F.B.I. agents for an interview in Texas.
It's obvious he's criminally stupid but is he criminally seditious?
His chances against the DOJ are good. Took them a year just to charge him.
insurgere, to rise up. If an insurrection lasts more than four hours etc.
Adam: Stand back! I don't know how big this thing gets.
I don't trust the FBI. I don't trust the courts. Poor fool.
They charged him the day after Ted Cruz laid waste to the J6 narrative during the Senate hearing.
"If two or more persons . . . conspire to . . . by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, . . . they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."
The article claims there are folks cooperating with the government who allege that the plan was to breach the Capitol with the goal of "obstructing" final certification.
1. Can the government prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this gentleman's alleged plan entailed the use of force? Obviously, this point is disputed, since the man says they weren't supposed to go into the building at all. Also, "obstructing" isn't used in the statute and could simply mean they intended to create a loud scene that would be disruptive of the proceedings but not constitute the "force" required for conviction. Unless the other alleged conspirators were armed, or there was a clear plan to seize weapons once inside, I'm skeptical that the government can prove the element of "by force" beyond a reasonable doubt.
2. I'm also not clear what "law of the United States" the alleged conspirators were allegedly preventing/hindering/delaying the execution of. It sounds like the plan was to disrupt a PROCEEDING, not the execution or implementation of a law enacted by Congress. I could be wrong, but I sort of doubt that the holding of the certification proceeding was required to be held in Washington D.C. at a specified hour on 1/6/21 pursuant to a statute passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the president. I would imagine those arrangements were made by Congressional leadership. It's arguable that the applicable "law" was Art. II of the Constitution, but I would read "law of the United States" to refer to a Congressional enactment, not the Constitution itself, which is a compact among the individual states.
3. This argument may not fly, but the statute states that "each" conspirator "shall" be fined or imprisoned upon conviction of the offense. It appears that only one of them is being targeted for prosecution while the others will serve as witnesses against that one alleged offender (and perhaps plead to some other, lesser offense, such as disrupting a public proceeding). Is there an argument to be made that, if the government cannot convict "two or more persons" of the seditious conspiracy in this instance, it hasn't met the literal terms of the statute? I realize that prosecutors often get convictions on the basis of one accomplice turning against another in exchange for leniency; but here the applicable statute seems to expressly contemplate that more than one must actually be fined or imprisoned. If only one is, could that one individual could make out a due process violation based on selective prosecution?
He was at the Capitol on Jan. 6, communicating by cellphone and a chat app with members of his team, many of whom went into the building. But there is no evidence that he entered the Capitol...
Didn't Rep Adam Kinzinger just say that makes him okie dokie?
I think this will fail on proving sedition charges. It's clear that Merrick Garland and Biden/Harris are under pressure because no one had really been charged with significant offenses, whie hundred rot in jail.
Two of the most corrupt institutions are DC Courts & DC Grand Juries!
Borrowing from Conn Carroll: Dems have failed on voting (hello again Sen. Sinema), filibuster (connected for now to voting), Build Back Better. The Mechanical Turk's numbers are dropping. Even the attempt to turn Jan. 6 into a national holiday failed, but now it's about all they've got with mid-terms less than year away. Quick, turn up the heat on Jan. 6. Forget trespass--many of our people are arguing all over the country that there should no such crime as trespass. Go for sedition!
This allows the Dems and the media to shout "Sedition!" through the midterms.
How many members of this planning committee were Feds?
it's a dead parrot otherwise
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/01/breaking-news-capitol-police-responsible-officer-sicknicks-death/
JaimeRoberto: "This allows the Dems and the media to shout "Sedition!" through the midterms"
Correct, with legal proceedings delayed until after Nov 2022...at which time this case will go the way of the Hutaree Militia and Whitmer "kidnapping" "plot".
Son of a gun, Ray Epps is an 'official' in the Oath Keepers.
https://gettr.com/post/po6eqa918c
"All the people who talked to feds without a lawyer would like a word with him. From prison."
Ray Epps ain't in prison. He talked to them alone.
Here's Adam "drama queen" Kinzinger on Jan 6th:
Adam Kinzinger:
I had 'my gun out' and considered firing it at Jan. 6 rioters who might break into my office and 'try to fight and kill me'
"Yeah. I'd say maybe it's around 2:30 p.m., and there was a moment where I was like, 'Man, there's a real sense of evil.' I can't explain it any further than that. And I'm not one of these guys that feels evil a lot. But I just felt a real darkness, like a thick, bad feeling. And there was about a 15- to 30-minute time frame, where, at one point, you realize they've breached the Capitol. I know if they can breach those outer lines, they can get anywhere, including my office. And I had been targeted on Twitter that day and prior, like, 'Hangman's noose. We're coming for you.' And people know where my office is. So I barricaded myself in here, thinking, 'If this is as bad as it seems, they may end up at my office, breaking this crap down, and I may have to do what I can.'"
Althouse asked "Why didn't any of these Congressman address the crowd"? Well, here's your answer. They HATED the Trump supporters and wanted to shoot them. No wonder these cowardly weirdos got 25,000 NG troops to "Protect" them.
Just remember these Trump supporters were Republicans. Like the ones who elected Kinzinger!
And he wanted to shoot his own voters. LOL!
But the syrian storm militia, the ones who sold hostages to islamic state, kinzinger is fine with, none of the waterbuffalo were armed,
lindsay graham wanted them shot dead, hes another client of qatar,
"Yeah. I'd say maybe it's around 2:30 p.m., and there was a moment where I was like, 'Man, there's a real sense of evil.' I can't explain it any further than that. And I'm not one of these guys that feels evil a lot. But I just felt a real darkness, like a thick, bad feeling."
A real sense of evil? In Mordor on the Potomac? Say it ain't so!
Ray Epps ain't in prison. He talked to them alone.
He SAID he talked to them alone. He's part of the team. I'm sure his number is in their rolodex.
narciso: "lindsay graham wanted them shot dead, hes another client of qatar,"
Lindsay is currently performing as Lindsay 2.0-The Very Principled Defender Of
Conservatives again...
...(wink wink)...
If he wasn't wearing horns and a speedo, he wasn't really dangerous.
Browndog said...
They charged him the day after Ted Cruz laid waste to the J6 narrative during the Senate hearing.
Laid waste?
I saw Cruz talk talk talk in an attempt to rehabilitate himself after calling his voters terrorists.
Cruz is doing absolutely nothing but talking.
As usual for DC republicans.
Ted Cruz is pretending super hard right now. Harder than he has ever pretended. But make no mistake. He still hates you and thinks you are a terrorist.
What I don't understand is this.. how can you have a law like this:
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
And yet in the Constitution is says this:
"That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
He's an Antifa plant. Once convicted, he'll disappear into the federal witless protection program. Be afraid. Be very afraid and send Trump more money so he can continue his brave fight against the elites arm in arm with the my pillow guy. They will use the money to hire the best lawyers that can be bought. The fraud proof is at hand. Please give what you can. Operators are standing by.
So Epps was a fed all along.
"His chances against the DOJ are good. Took them a year just to charge him."
Caeser took nearly six years before executing Vercengetorix after his capture. As long as they have him, patience and delay favor the state.
If he is tried in the DC circuit he is toasted. Not possible to get an unbiased jury in that circuit.
If it’s the FBI testifying, then it is a lie and he should walk.
Mr. Rhodes, a former Army paratrooper who went on to earn a law degree at Yale, has been under investigation for his role in the riot since at least last spring when, against the advice of his lawyer, he sat down with F.B.I. agents for an interview in Texas
What a moron
1: Never talk to the cops
2; Never talk to the FBI
3: If you do talk to the FBI, video the entire thing
But at least four Oath Keepers who were at the Capitol that day and are cooperating with the government have sworn in court papers that the group intended to breach the building with the goal of obstructing the final certification of the Electoral College vote...."
Having observed that people from the FBI lied to the FISA Court, under oath, and have received no real punishment for doing so, I don't believe any sane person can believe any court papers filed by the FBI
Ann Althouse said...
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
I wonder how many of the "Trump collusion" peddlers we can prosecute under this law?
Exactly how much "force" is necessary?
JaimeRoberto said...
This allows the Dems and the media to shout "Sedition!" through the midterms.
As Althouse pointed out in a different post, that's not working for them.
They shouted "Trump, Trump, Trump" all the way up the the Nov 2021 VA elections. They got swept in the Statewide races, and lost lost control of the State House of Reps (State Senate wasn't up for a vote).
So, by all means I hope they shout "J6!" all the way to November
Wow. So, you mean, a huge collection of lies was published in the New York Times? Didn't see that coming!
Until proven otherwise, I am going to assume that this is one more FBI operation to demonize Biden's political opponents that is part of his war declaration on the Republican Party he made in Georgia a couple days ago. It's more Reichstag Fire stuff, and like the Mueller infestigation, it will drag on with tantalizing leaks that will turn out to be bullshit, until after the election, when it will all disappear.
The Ray Epps involvement with the Oath Keepers, and his seeming consultations with Antifa members at the height of the disturbance and then his skating free from the DOJ heavily weighs in favor of this whole thing being a political operation to destroy the Republican Party. once and for all, so that the graft can flow unopposed.
Our billionaire class wants a government that money can buy, and the Democrats are determined to provide them with one.
We can't believe any of this. I am not saying it is true or not true, I am just saying it can't be believed. The FBI is not denying, when it would be a simple matter to do so, that it played a role in J6. We know they were instrumental in the Whitmer abduction plot.
Also, flip to the other side. Marilyn Mosby was prosecuted for: lying on mortgage docs???? Anyone believe that was the real reason?
Can we believe anything the government or government media tells us?
Those who have followed Darren Beattie's reporting at Revolver News from the beginning understand that Rhodes, like Ray Epps, has been an unindicted federal asset from the beginning as well.
What changed?
The conclusion that the DOJ deliberately provoked the events of January 6 to discredit an entire political cohort moved from the reporting of Beattie at Revolver and Julie Kelly at American Greatness to the mainstream halls of Congress, and that would not do at all, nosirree.
Plus, the mantra "no January 6 defendant has been charged with insurrection" had to finally be put to death as well.
DOJ could easily have taken down Rhodes and his co-defendants a year ago had it wanted to, but the need to cast them under the bus for tactical relief simply didn't exist then.
It's truly impossible to overestimate and overstate the full, vile odiousness of the damaged homunculus Merrick Garland. By comparison, James Comey really is the saintly Boy Scout he imagines himself to be.
Code Pink, which regularly interrupts congressional hearings in staged protests, is probably wondering when the FBI will be coming for them all. I kid, I kid.
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