"... a move that resulted in a temporary shutdown of the city’s only location. 'We refuse to become the vaccination police for any government,' Arnie Wensinger, the company’s chief legal and business officer, said.... 'It is unreasonable, invasive, and unsafe to force our restaurant Associates to segregate Customers into those who may be served and those who may not, whether based on the documentation they carry, or any other reason.'... 'We fiercely disagree with any government dictate that forces a private company to discriminate against customers who choose to patronize their business,' Wensinger said. 'This is clear governmental overreach and is intrusive, improper, and offensive.'"
From "In-N-Out Burger clashes with San Francisco over vaccine mandate: 'We refuse to become the vaccination police’" (WaPo).
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८४ टिप्पण्या:
Just wait until December 8th.
When large percentages of the US workforce are forced out by the Regime and their Corporate allies for not complying with drooling Joe's "mandate" the fun really starts.
We've already had incidents around the country where employees have been attacked and in at least once instance a security guard at a store was killed for trying to enforce mask requirements. I wouldn't try and make my employees do this either.
WaPo is letting me look for free this morning…
Yuk.
gave up WaPo subscription years ago but I hope you'll let us know what the top comments are. Popular chain here with great burgers. I would expect lots of hungry irate San Franciscans.
All the vaccination checks certainly gum up the "fast food" concept ...
Kudos In-N-Out!
The police don’t want to be the vaccination police either.
Good for them.
Lynsi Snyder can do whatever she wants. She has never taken In-N-Out public, probably has no creditors or other shareholders. Plus she is 39, and hires only smart people.
San Francisco is our very own shithole. Why would ANY business want to be in a place where they can be robbed and nobody gets in trouble for it. Don't step in the human shit on the way out though. I would love to see "California tumble into the sea"...as Steely Dan sang.
The burger chain knows their customers, and doesn't want to become the flack catcher for the city and state government, being Mau-Mau'ed by the mob. Can't really blame them for the decision, either.
The crowd going to an In-N-Out is different from those attending, say, the French Laundry restaurant. While neither crowd wants to wear masks, the more expensive eatery is less likely to have a patron throw a milkshake back at the server. This is possibly because at the expensive restaurant governors and their cohort don't have to wear masks, possibly because at the burger joint throwing a drink at the server only costs a few bucks, not a week's wages.
The burger chain knows their customers, and doesn't want to become the flack catcher for the city and state government, being Mau-Mau'ed by the mob. Can't really blame them for the decision, either.
The crowd going to an In-N-Out is different from those attending, say, the French Laundry restaurant. While neither crowd wants to wear masks, the more expensive eatery is less likely to have a patron throw a milkshake back at the server. This is possibly because at the expensive restaurant governors and their cohort don't have to wear masks, possibly because at the burger joint throwing a drink at the server only costs a few bucks, not a week's wages.
There is nothing like Government in San Francisco. I'd make the old joke that was used for Detroit for years: Will the last person to leave San Francisco please turn out the lights. But frankly, once those who are going to leave have left, the rest will probably still be sitting there in the dark waiting for their Government to take care of them.
Good luck with that.
There are a dozen "Chick-fil-A" outlets in San Francisco as well. I wonder...
They'll shut down a restaurant but crapping on the sidewalk and shoplifting is perfectly acceptable. Nice set of priorities they've got there.
I have the impression that San Francisco is governed by fascists.
Our governor Newsom still refuses to have his own HS age daughter vaccinated for COVID. They don’t believe their own BS and neither should we.
You can't have anarchotyranny without some tyranny. Hats off to In-N-Out for pointing out the tyranny, and for the excellent burgers.
I have to voice my strong objection- French Laundry people love In-N-Out too….
My next double double with cheese will taste even better next time.
I was in a coffee shop (a small 'chain' that I frequent often) and there were signs everywhere saying 'you must show proof of vaccination or a recent negative test.'
The kid at the counter didn't ask.
If he had I was going to walk out...
There's an In-N-Out near me. I might just go there for lunch today.
Burgers are awesome, but the fries are only so-so...
I understand that Biden can make vaccination mandatory for federal workers. He's the chief executive. (Leaving aside the issue of those with natural immunity for now).
But I doubt OSHA has the authority to order every employer with more than 100 employees require vaccination of every employee. If this is truly an "public health emergency" wouldn't Congress have passed a law by now? It's been 17 months!
All of this will be fought out in the courts, of course, and eventually it will come down to one or two justices deciding. Which is even worse than a federal agency in Washington doing the same.
I suspect Biden and team (or is it just "team"?) prefer mandates to laws. None of the messy voting on the record and "consent of the governed" inconvenience. Congress once again has abdicated it's role to bureaucrats and the courts, to the benefit of their reelections but to the detriment of those that they, in theory, serve.
1: I find it very interesting that you're covering this, but the "Libertarians" at the Volokh Conspiracy, some of whom are in CA, are not.
2: Good for In and Out. I may have to get some food there the next time I'm near one
In n Out is a first job for a lot of students. A sixteen year old should not try to enforce a vaccine mandate. Since my wife and I are down with the proles we are getting In n Out today in solidarity with the workers.
J Melcher said...
There are a dozen "Chick-fil-A" outlets in San Francisco as well. I wonder...
Chick-fil-A recently hired some woke executives, to the point that they're no longer giving money to the Salvation Army.
I expect they will go along with the mandate. and that I will continue to no longer patronize Chick-fil-A
No surprise. In n out burger is run by Christian cultists.
>>They'll shut down a restaurant but crapping on the sidewalk and shoplifting is perfectly acceptable.
You have to show ID AND vaccination status to buy a burger. But no ID to vote.
This makes sense to Californians.
My wife hears this--and says, "Let's have an In n Out burger today." I've never heard her say that before.
In-N-Out is one of the few with the cajones to tell the Mandaters to eat it. And rightfully so. If this sh*t show of an Administration wants to mandate vaccines, then let's see the papers, comrade citizen. So far nothing has been placed into the Federal Register by OSHA (as the Emergency Temporary Standard #2). Rumor has it that the draft is under review by the OMB.
But until it's part of the Federal Code, it can't be disputed - or enforced. The Administration is hoping it can arm-twist private companies into doing its dirty work by finesse. But the companies have lawyers too, and they are probably giving very careful advice right about now.
Howard said...
No surprise. In n out burger is run by Christian cultists.
No duh! THAT'S Why they're So Delicious, Like Chik Fil A
NOTHING says Yummy Delicious Fast Food like Christian cultists
In Fact, a while ago, there was Loaves and Fishes fast food, that was SO GOOD, it was a miracle!!
Blogger Howard said...
No surprise. In n out burger is run by Christian cultists.
Howard has decided that everyone he disagrees with is a "Christian Cultist." I think Howard, so often confused, has confused them with Chik fil A. No surprise with lefties.
Howard...the only cultists...are the VACCINE police like you. The first responders were heroes last year...and you cultists are firing them today. You are living in an alternate universe.
You have to show ID AND vaccination status to buy a burger. But no ID to vote.
This makes sense to Californians.
Nope. No it doesn't. The D party has perfected cheating here so that senseless policies can be forced on us. Remember just a few short years ago we voted overwhelmingly to NOT have gay marriage, to NOT give welfare to illegal immigrants, and every time they have to find a compromised 9th Circuit "activist" in judge's clothing to reverse the Will of the People. How they managed to keep that one judge closeted until AFTER he ruled on gay marriage is a mystery. But it resolved quickly once he did the deed: he stepped down and got married. Democracy!
"Burgers are awesome, but the fries are only so-so..."
I feel the same way about the fries, never heard anybody else say so. They're fine while they're still hot just out of the fryer but they kind of suck when they get cold. Which happens so fast since they're so skinny.
May I see your papers?
We were scolded by the left regarding the border. LOL - such frauds.
This reminds me I need to visit the Pineapple Hill Saloon and Grill in Sherman Oaks before the LA County vaccine mandate kicks in on my birthday.
From last December:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olrO0RDu8SY
The top comments at WaPo right now are:
"They will however continue to collect taxes for the government, submit to health inspections by the government, follow food safety protocols issued by the government, obey OSHA rules issued by the government, follow building codes issued by the government, pay taxes issued by the government, pay wages as mandated by the government, hire and fire people in a non-discriminatory manner as required by the government, and serve people in a nondiscriminatory manner as required by the government. Just don't ask them to help end a pandemic. That is a bridge too far for any company, right?"
***
"In more than 50 years of living, I have eaten my weight in In-N-Out. I have overlooked their religious proselytizing as we all have a right to our opinions. but for a food service business to spit in the eye of public safety… the health department should close them down. They have seen the last penny they shall ever see from me."
***
"Selling food while ignoring a health mandate...the state should shut them down.
No concern for their customer's health or safety...or that of their employees...all while handling food.
Disgusting."
***
"Here in Puerto Rico, restaurants have been checking patrons' vaccination cards for months. It's not even a thing. People just do it."
***
"In that case they should shut down indoor dining and only have drive thru. I’m not going to eat somewhere I have to worry about catching Covid."
IN SHORT: No sympathy for In-and-Out. They all expect dutiful compliance.
>>IN SHORT: No sympathy for In-and-Out. They all expect dutiful compliance.
From In and Out - Yes.
From their governor, his daughter, and local mayors, no.
The modern Left never attempts to persuade. They tell you what is "right", and then immediately jump to force.
"We all have a right to our opinions"... if they are the correct opinions.
Otherwise, no job, no service, no Facebook, no medical care.
If the mandate was such a good idea, you wouldn't need force.
I got the vaccine the day I was eligible back in March. By choice. Not by force.
IN SHORT: No sympathy for In-and-Out. They all expect dutiful compliance.
Well, there's the Left in a nutshell
Howard said...
No surprise. In n out burger is run by Christian cultists.
So, what you're saying is that only "Christian cultists" make good food?
Could you tell us, Howard, why it is that you should have to show photo ID and vaccination status to buy food, but it's "vote suppression" to require people to show photo ID to vote?
Isn't "starving people" worse than "vote suppression"?
"They will however continue to collect taxes for the government, submit to health inspections by the government, follow food safety protocols issued by the government, obey OSHA rules issued by the government, follow building codes issued by the government, pay taxes issued by the government, pay wages as mandated by the government, hire and fire people in a non-discriminatory manner as required by the government, and serve people in a nondiscriminatory manner as required by the government. Just don't ask them to help end a pandemic. That is a bridge too far for any company, right?"
All done with a gun to their head. Government is nothing but legalized coercion...
At a certain point, most people (and companies) will just say 'enough!'
I want San Francisco to now mandate that they check the HIV status of every customer in San Francisco.
While they're at it, have them check the citizenship status of every customer. No U.S. passport, no burger.
It's in Fisherman's Wharf, the lamest tourist spot in Northern CA. Plenty of ff options, tho no one makes a comparable 3x3.
No surprise Howard tosses in a non-sequitur Christian-hating comment. When you are a progressive hate speech is all you know how to spew.
WaPO commenters are typical fascists. Hopefully no one is suprised they want a company to buckle under to government tyranny.
I had an amusing discussion the other day comparing our current crop of elitist clerisy to other groups (non-Nazi, non-Commies) throughout history. The faves among our interlocuters were: Sadduccees, Royalists (in the English Civil War), Jacobins (French Revolution), Bonapartists, and - my particular favorite - Loyalists during the American Revolution.
"In that case they should shut down indoor dining and only have drive thru. I’m not going to eat somewhere I have to worry about catching Covid."
Looks like this brilliant WaPo commenter didn't read to the end where that is exactly what In-N-Out did. I'll just add that anyone "worried about catching COVID" to this unreasonable extent shouldn't be dining out either. The illegal alien clearing your table and washing your dishes also may not be vaccinated since that is official DHS policy, but he/she did get a free bus ride to your town! Science!
https://news.yahoo.com/desantis-critics-fall-silent-floridas-110000651.html
But drops in Florida’s case counts invite a fraction of the attention.
New infections per 100,000 residents dropped to 12 over the past week, according to the New York Times coronavirus tracker. Over the past 14 days, cases dropped by 48%.
Other states with far more expansive pandemic restrictions are seeing COVID-19 continue to spread at faster rates than Florida.
In New York, for example, the rate of new cases is more than double that of Florida’s at 25 per 100,000 residents over the past week.
In Washington state, the rate of new infections per 100,000 residents was at 31 during the past week.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
For comparison: CA's 7 day moving average of new cases is 14.0 per 100,000
Florida's is 11.4.
CA has more than twice as many new cases in the most recent 7 day moving average, and less than twice the population.
"Follow the science!"
Wow—the lawyer provides a clear, explicit statement of what is wrong with this “mandate.” Refreshing.
Wow—a clear, explicit statement of what is wrong with these various vaccine mandates. Fascism, staring us in the face, and people don’t see it.
In answer to Skeptical Voter above: It is the Washington Post.
The vax may fail to stop transmission, injure and kill recipients, even select for variants to our detriment.
But you must comply!!
That is true cultism.
Semper Fud!
Blogger Joe Smith said...
I was in a coffee shop (a small 'chain' that I frequent often) and there were signs everywhere saying 'you must show proof of vaccination or a recent negative test.'
The kid at the counter didn't ask.
If he had I was going to walk out...
There's an In-N-Out near me. I might just go there for lunch today.
Burgers are awesome, but the fries are only so-so...
10/20/21, 9:43 AM
Oh man, the fries are what makes it. They hand cut them right there in the store. No Ore-Ida frozen fries for In N Out.
Speaking of what makes In N Out different: I don't know where they find their employees but they are like nothing you see anywhere else. Is it the training or are they recruiting from the local Mormon churches? All those fresh faced cheerful and smiling kids make you feel like you stepped back into an episode of "The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis." Gee whiz!
Interesting to see the assumption that In-N-Outy has a religious affiliation. The left assumes that anyone who disagrees must be an evangelical religious nut. I've been dealing with In-N-Out for years and have no idea of any religious connection. I think all the lefties, like Howard, are fixated on Chik fil A.
I thought private companies could do whatever they wanted.
When did that change?
As far as I can remember in-n-out started as drive-thru only. The one by us was a small hut with drive-thru windows on each side. There was a walk-up window but the space to stand was incredibly small with no place to park.
They have a lot of indoor seating at the newer places now, but still work hard at keeping the drive-thru moving. They were one of the first places to put a kid outside with a headset on to keep the row of cars moving and cones out to direct the line of traffic in the parking lot. When I say line I mean about a blocks worth.
Im pretty sure they are going to do ok. Now I need a double double...
Here in Puerto Rico, restaurants have been checking patrons' vaccination cards for months. It's not even a thing. People just do it."
We do it in pr, but only be we have to. We do grumble, we do redist
We ask employees to show their cards on the ground that hey are handling our food. If they refuse we complain to the manager and gum up the works.
Lots of cashiers just show their cards to avoid us assholes.
Or. We order Togo. That means a bag instead of a tray but no card check. Then take the bag to a table and enjoy our meal.
Or one member of the party orders for all, shows card. Others sit, never get checked.
Or we don't eat out.
It is a thing and eateries in pr hate it.
Good on in N out. Unlike Howard, bible verses on cup and bags don't terrify me.
John Henry
I'm mask free in north Carolina this week.
Lots of people here shake hands and it feels really weird. But really good.
It feels almost like a revolutionary act.
LGB!
That could mean lesbian, bi, gay since "let's go Brandon" will likely trigger a Google hammer soon.
So, LGB while we can
John Henry
Our Professor Notes...
IN SHORT: No sympathy for In-and-Out. They all expect dutiful compliance.
Fun Question! If (Capitol I. F. IF) President Trump was still running things...
And some Non Christian company was doing this
(I don't know, for fun let's say Comet Ping Pong pizza?)
WHAT would the WaPo (and its readers) response be? Would it be:
"No sympathy for Comet Ping Pong . They all expect dutiful compliance"
Or, would their response be (slightly) different?
OOOH!! Even MORE FUN! What if Trump was President? And imposed a vaccine mandate?
And a Lesbian School teacher refused? Would there be marches?
Whatever happened to the squads of Jabber-Walkies Joementia was yapping about?
I guess his addled attention ran thin before they had a chance.
The SF location is strictly a walk-in affair and the volume is just too much (located near Fisherman's Wharf) to expect employees to vet each and every person who walks through the door. It would be utter madness with lines longer than they already are. In fact, even if the location has a drive-thru, the walk-in traffic is still heavy as the car lines are always long.
But good. Glad to hear it. Think I'll drive to Daly City this weekend and pick some up.
"Ann Althouse said...
The top comments at WaPo right now are:"
The difference between asking the business to police the customer's health status and asking the business to police its facilities and employees is lost on the WaPo commenters. That's just one step to making all businesses police their customers' health status to having neighbors police their neighbors' health status. Just a slippery slope on the way to a Stasi-state. And the thing about slippery slopes (just a couple of weeks to flatten the curve) is that they are slippery.
But I doubt OSHA has the authority to order every employer with more than 100 employees require vaccination of every employee.
Neither OSHA nor Biden has actually issued any such order, these jackasses are doing it on their own.
Working a counter in fast food can be dangerous. I had a customer grab me by the shirt, hold a knife to my neck, and demand hot fries because I had perhaps given him cold fries. I told my dad about it and he made me immediately quit McDonalds.
The interesting thing about In-N-Out is that it shows how much a company can be ahead in almost every way as a well-paying, employee supporting, company but then be demonized for not toing the line exactly. Meanwhile, places like Apple can have massive workers rights issues but be praised for supporting the right domestic politics.
In-N-Out is a prized place to work for all sorts of people because of the pay (which was well above minimum wage even decades ago) and job satisfaction even though it's a really busy, non-stop job. But that doesn't matter, because employees should be carding people even though that's not within their job descriptions.
It's curious how demonizing works among government cultists.
It wasn’t nearly as hut like as my 45 plus year old memories painted it. But still quite small allowing it to be tucked up tight against the freeway on small piece of land.
The WaPo comments seem to assume that agreements can be changed at any time to require whatever mandate is in place. The rest of the requirements In-N-Out lives up to were in place as part of it being a restaurant but this new requirement is outside what they think is best for their employees. Given their longstanding pro-employee reputation, they should be given a lot more benefit of the doubt than being demonized.
This current situation reminds me a lot of Darth Vader's deal with Lando Calrissian.
Yet another reason to eliminate qualified immunity.
>>Neither OSHA nor Biden has actually issued any such order, these jackasses are doing it on their own.
Today, you are correct. OSHA says tomorrow is a different story...
You'd think that something that affects 80 million people would get the attention of Congress, and require legislation. But you would be wrong.... :(
"The Department of Labor’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is developing a rule that will require all employers with 100 or more employees to ensure their workforce is fully vaccinated or require any workers who remain unvaccinated to produce a negative test result on at least a weekly basis before coming to work.
OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement. This requirement will impact over 80 million workers in private sector businesses with 100+ employees."
"I've been dealing with In-N-Out for years and have no idea of any religious connection."
They have verses on their cups (underneath) and the family is very Christian. I used to attend church with one of the heirs. But, it sure seems that they exemplify the best of Evangelical Christianity in their commitment to good service, treating their employees better than any other fast-food restaurant going back decades, and sustainable practices. Someone would be hard-pressed to find something they do wrong unless belief itself is out of bounds, which sounds very phobic to me.
Blogger John henry said...
We ask employees to show their cards on the ground that hey are handling our food.
--
Has there been any 'rona breakouts tied to food handling?
Cult? What cult?The Angel Moroni (/moʊˈroʊnaɪ/[1]) is an angel whom Joseph Smith reported as having visited him on numerous occasions, beginning on September 21, 1823. According to Smith, the angel was the guardian of the golden plates, buried in the hill Cumorah near Smith's home in western New York; Latter Day Saints believe the plates were the source material for the Book of Mormon. An important figure in the theology of the Latter Day Saint movement, Moroni is featured prominently in Mormon architecture and art. Besides Smith, the Three Witnesses and several other witnesses also reported that they saw Moroni in visions in 1829.
'I don't know where they find their employees but they are like nothing you see anywhere else.'
Before all of the 'living wage' wining started, they were always paying more than the other places.
And they explicitly advertised that they were looking for kids with high GPAs...racist, I know.
Agree to disagree on the fries...not much flavor. To me they are just a vehicle for the ketchup.
Combine a double-double (onions please) with old-school, fried-in-fat McDonalds fries and you'd be taking about an epic combination...
Is anyone else amused that Joe Smith posted a comment immediately after Howard's comment referencing Mormonism?
Is anyone else amused that Joe Smith posted his comment immediately after Howard's comment on Mormonism?
"OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement. This requirement will impact over 80 million workers in private sector businesses with 100+ employees."
No, the "requirement" will get hit with a nationwide injunction from a Distrct Court judge in TX or FL, and SCOTUS will uphold the injunction
Shorter Howard: Mormons exist, therefore you should be forced to show your papers in order to purchase a hamburger.
I have to admit, as bad as that is, its lightyears ahead of what LLR Chuck offers up daily.
Making your employees get the vaccine is one thing; making your *customers* is another.
Good for In-N-Out.
Blogger walter enquires...
Has there been any 'rona breakouts tied to food handling?
Have there been no outbreaks tied to food handling?
Logic would dictate that it is more likely to transmit via food handling than food eating. I'm not worried about either particularly. I made a deal back in early 2020. I ignore the bat flu and it ignores me.
In any event, that is beside the point. If they want to see my medical information, I want to see theirs. I would rather that we neither of had to share medical information with anyone but if I do, turnabout is fair play.
And for those who would like to know if I have been vaccinated, Yes, I do have a vaccination card. I carry a legitimate looking photocopy in my wallet.
John Henry
In and out has bible verses on the cups etc. Not verses from the book of Mormon. I know they have New testament verses. I seem to remember OT verses but it has been 20 years since my last visit and I could be wrong.
I remember the last time I went, with my son and a Jewish fellow and his son. The Jewish fellow mentioned something complimentary about the verses. And the extremely perky 17 year old waitress said "Oh yes, [spiels verse] that's my second favorite verse. My favorite, though, is [spiels another verse with book and chapter]"
We all thought her banjolike attitude made the food taste even better.
(Banjolike: Makes everything, taste, smell and feel better. It has been scientifically proven that it is impossible to feel bad when a banjo is playing)
Also, my photocopy is dark, blurry and reduced in size by 50% to fit in my wallet. It is as close to illegible as I could make it while still being readable.
The law says I have to show a copy. It doesn't say I have to show an easy to read copy.
I try to walk as close to the line of non-compliance I can. So far, I've never been refused service. The worst that could happen is that they could refuse me dine-in service and I would certainly argue that I have a card and just be an asshole in general until they give me my food to shut me up. Some might say that being an asshole comes easily to me. It can be a semi-superpower.
John Henry
So the customer enters, infects everyone else in line waiting to place an order. Then the employee asks for the proof of vaccination?
If the gov't doesn't want the restaurant to allow nonvaxxed into the establishment, it should be the gov't agent outside the door checking your papers before entry, not an employee of the business.
And in all fairness, you should have to show proof of Vax before you can shit on the sidewalk, or be allowed into Walgreens in order to rob the place.
Why the Mormon comment, I don't think they're Mormon. At least I'm not Mormon and I attended a Baptist Church with a member of the family
'The law says I have to show a copy. It doesn't say I have to show an easy to read copy.'
"Darkisland has been vaccinated.
Signed, Darkisland's mother."
Darkisland said...
It has been scientifically proven that it is impossible to feel bad when a banjo is playing
Back in the day, Cedar Rapids had a "Shakey's Pizza", which always had a banjo player (well, a whole band; but with a banjo)
I loved going there; it was Fun! My life didn't seem bad there
SF wants to change their motto from “Quality You Can Taste” to “Ausweiss! Schnell!!” I know the owner, ain’t gonna happen
Darkisland said...
It has been scientifically proven that it is impossible to feel bad when a banjo is playing
I guess you never saw Deliverance.
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