I got that through "A trooper defying his state’s vaccine mandate uses his final dispatch to tell off the governor" (WaPo).
He cited fears over long-term effects, including on fertility, though health officials have said there is no evidence of such harm. “The problem is, we don’t know what this is going to do,” LaMay said. “Is it sterilizing your daughters? Is it sterilizing your sons? We don’t know.”
As a Christian, he said, he has objections to the way the vaccines were developed. He said that his family shares his concerns, and that they had “put it up to prayer: ‘Hey God, if this is what you want, let’s see it.’ ”
When he spoke publicly about his opposition to the mandate and subsequently received job offers from other agencies, he took it as a sign. “This is where we’re supposed to be; this is what we’re supposed to do,” LaMay said. “God will provide — you put it in his hands, and he’ll take care of you. That’s basically what he’s been showing.”
It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them. The mandate is government force used against those who are used by the government to apply force to others. It's rough. But force needn't be so crude. And yet, once the government begins a mandate, it's got to bull through. It must have seemed to be working quite well, but when you get down to the last 10%, you see the real effect of the effort at compulsion, and onlookers — including vaccinated onlookers like me — feel sympathy.Because of the vaccine mandate, he said, he and other troopers have “lost trust in the governor, our command staff, our chief.” He said he chose to address Inslee (D) the way he did Friday because “he won’t listen to us with proper protocol.”
Plenty of onlookers don't feel sympathetic to people like LaMay. The top-rated comment at WaPo says: "And to think he had been walking around with a badge and gun for 22 years. His lack of critical thinking skills is dumbfounding." Somebody else says, "One less morbidly obese moron to worry about."
By they way, LaMay's line — "the people pushing it are politicians" — resonates with something Kamala Harris said in the 2020 campaign: "If Donald Trump tells us to take it, I'm not taking it."
By they way, LaMay's line — "the people pushing it are politicians" — resonates with something Kamala Harris said in the 2020 campaign: "If Donald Trump tells us to take it, I'm not taking it."
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95 comments:
I can't wait until Washington State, California and Oregon all fall. The same with every single Progressive city. They are asking for it, and I hope they get it good and hard. Don't come asking for handouts afterwards. You wanted this. The fascists are in charge...and they are making sure the world knows. Congratulations regressive Progressives. You divided us for good.
The government has done a horrible job at sharing data and takeaway learnings of that data on an ongoing basis. All adults have to make up their own minds for themselves and their dependents. It’s not ok for politicians to ignore basic human agency in this 99% survivable pandemic. Imagine someone forcing you to get a shot you don’t trust. It’s a novel virus and a novel vaccine technology! It’s perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of the shot, especially as breakthrough cases, with some resulting in death, mount. Why some people judge others so harshly on this boggles my mind.
Just a little correction: you said "his refusal to comply with a mask mandate," but it was the vaccine mandate that impelled his resignation. Carry on.
I have less sympathy for people who work with vulnerable populations--people who work with the sick and the elderly or, as you point out here, people who force others into close contact with them. Still, the lack of an exception for people who have already had COVID puts the lie to the claim that there is anything scientific about the vaccine mandates and reveals them to be a raw use of force by people who like to resolve problems by simply coercing others into complying.
This is crazy. This is wrong.
What happened to respect for the individual?
We know that vaccines aren’t 100% effective so why is the government forcing the vaccine on people?
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them."
Unlike a lot of innumerate commenters and people who imagine vast conspiracies of silence involving each and every one of the 6,000+ hospitals in the United States, and the rest of the hospitals around the world, I am convinced that the vaccines work. However, they don't prevent infection, and they don't prevent the vaccinated person from shedding virus, and they don't work as well as natural immunity. Though both the jab and natural immunity fade, they still greatly reduce the odds of hospitalization and death while the antibodies hold.
The reason for the mandates is try to recover the economy by keeping the unvaxxed from hospitalization and death, it isn't to prevent the spread to the vaxxed, which can never be done.
If you want to say "it's not just about the antibodies, You can explain this study here that was done in the '90s that shows that coronavirus reinfection can happen soon after illness, and symptomatic reinfection happens as the antibodies fall, which after a year, they largely have. Search on "reinfection". If it's not the antibodies, it's about something closely correlated to antibody levels that also fades within a year.
This is happening everywhere. I know people who are vaccinated who are refusing to show their proof of vaccination out of principle.
Most of the people being fired right now have been doing their jobs before there was a vaccine. They were undertaking a greater risk than the public health officials, CEOs and politicians who stayed home and zoomed. I would imagine most of them (because of their exposure) have already had Covid. Let them do a risk assessment for themselves and leave it there.
If you take the shot you can still get covid and you can still superspread covid. Supposedly it reduces the severity of delta but what happens when we get to zeta and only the natural immunity folks are breezing through?
Some people take immunosuppressants and politicians shouldn’t be monkeying with those people either…
"Our bodies, ourselves" and "Fuck him! Jab him!' is one of the clearest examples of "doublethink" I can recall so far.
I didn't write this, but its the question that's been in my mind for some time:
Why do the protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that didn’t protect the protected in the first place?
The vaccine will not prevent you from getting covid. It will not prevent you from spreading covid. It is, at best, another type of therapeutic. It may prevent you from getting hospitalized. On the other hand, if you have other things going on such as older age, obesity, diabetes, compromised immune system, it doesn't help you.
In many countries, these vaccines are being stopped and reconsidered for the younger set. In well vaccinated countries such as Israel, they've gone through massive surges a number of times (almost as if the vaccine attracted the Delta variant) and their best hope now is that they are reaching some sort of herd immunity.
The comments on WaPo are as clone-like and unthinking as I would expect from their rabid readers. If you get your information from WaPo, I'd expect that sort of comment. You don't know what you don't know.
The Governor of Washington, Jay Inslee, focuses on making Washington a Woke Kingdom with zero carbon emissions, while his main city turns into a shithole, the police force in the state and the City of Seattle dropping off by the hundreds, crime skyrocketing, and my grandkids had to walk through a park on their school grounds taken over by homeless drug addicts, criminals, and thugs. The homeless are protected by Jay Inslee. My grandkids and their taxpaying parents are not. (needless to say, our kids pulled their kids out of the public schools this year).
This vaccine mandate is evil, it follows no science and has come down to being simply a power play. There is no science that says the vaccine does what we were told it would at the outset. In fact, numbers seem to indicate that the vaccines attracted more cases of the Delta variant.
I've been vaccinated. But I absolutely understand people not wanting to be the actual FDA test on these things and I respect their choice. Hell...I'm so old I remember when Democrats fought for choice.
There’s also video of the Seattle firefighters and police turning in their stuff.
refusal to comply with a mask mandate.
Vaccine, not mask, which doesn't appear in the article.
Jay Inslee can kiss my ass, too
From time to ,time, you read something that may or may not be true but....how do you know? If Facebook censors it, does that mean it's true? Or does that mean it's false?
A virologist, working with, blessedly, animals said all of them who got one of the vaxes lost germ cells. All of them.
So you're trying to figure this stuff out . Or your boat sank in the middle of the ocean and you're trying to stay afloat. What was that quick glance of...something...breaking the surface for an instant? A fin? Piece of trash? Empty life jacket?
What do I make of this? I've heard similar fears elsewhere. Is this a valid addition to why we should be cautious? Is it not? Do I trust the big shots with the microphones--politicians--to tell me?
I have grandkids. Do i mention this to my son when he's thinking of getting them jabbed?
If the paper surfaces more publicly and is body slammed by the usual folks--Rolling Stone, Fauci, MSM? What does that mean? Are the usuals usually at odds with what turns out to be true--note to self, is the lab leak theory still racist?--and, I have grandkids dammit!
Point is, it's probably a good idea not to come down on anti-vaxxers too hard. Charity is a virtue, plus it might keep you from looking foolish when the jabs turn out to have long term effects of the kind we don't usually like.
The most relevant and predictive movie of our time: Idiocracy (2006)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
Time for some "rehabilitation" now?
How much do you want to wager, that this officer has all his other vaccinations. How much do you want to wager that he isn't even generally opposed to vaccinations. How much do you want to wager, that the reason he doesn't trust this "vaccine" is because his government has consistently betrayed his trust for the last 18 months (at a minimum).
These mandates are insane, they are the epitome of evil. They compel people to trust the people who have lied to them again and again and again, at the risk of their jobs, and livelihood. Deserve our trust the public health establishment most assuredly does not.
How much would you wager, that if the timing of these "mandates" (which they are not they are actually a kind of religious test..."Do you "BELIEVE" in science?") was 5 years out most would probably already have gotten the injection. Of course that would involve them trusting what they see in if the injection works or not. And no I Don't BELIEVE in those scientists...heck NO.
How much do you think these individuals know the government lies to us again and again and again.
No, these mandates are something else. No "vaccine" has been mandated within 1 year of its development, never. Much less within 5. No "vaccine" that I have seen has the kind of gaslighting and redefinition of efficacy that these ones have. And if I have the audacity to point out that the chocolate ration was actually 25 grams 3 months ago and that it was not increased to 20 grams from 15 but decreased to 25, I am called a conspiracy theorist and a denier. Sorry it is madness, absolute madness.
his refusal to comply with a mask mandate.
Shouldn't that be vaccine mandate?
""One less morbidly obese moron to worry about.""
I couldn't really tell what the former officer's weight was from the pictures. He might be overweight or not, but if he's morbidly obese, the pictures don't show it.
This sort of jumping to conclusions is right in the wheelhouse of the WP commentariat.
If the government and the pols were actually "following the science" with these policies, there would be a lot less resistance. But they are clearly using this as a political tool, not following guidelines on a personal level, not following the actual science, and letting some groups off the hook. So I don't have a problem with individuals who are telling the lthe government to fuck off.
last week, 2 nurses i know here in iowa, were told that they would be considered
to be "voluntary terminations" (which means No unemployment) since they refused vaccines
They spent a year and a half, being the front line (and being called "heroes!")...
both GOT covid from their patients... NOW, they are considered SCUM OF THE EARTH
and the system is GLAD to be rid of them
(by the way, their hospital is rationing care, due to 'nursing shortages')
I just get confused... Are front line workers "heroes"? or SCUM OF THE EARTH?
Those D commenters are the empathetic ones. Just ask them.
Serious Question
If/WHEN we have Massive labor shortages from firings for not submitting to vaccination;
do we
a) install a draft (mandatory servitude), to FORCE people to do the work
and/or
b) bust into people's homes; hold them at gunpoint, and forcibly vaccinate them?
Serious Follow up question
WHY? Why are we doing this? WHAT is the dire need?
once the government begins a mandate, it's got to bull through. It must have seemed to be working quite well, but when you get down to the last 10%, you see the real effect of the effort at compulsion, and onlookers — including vaccinated onlookers like me — feel sympathy.
Contempt for the proles combined with this kind of failure of imagination results in a very unsympathetic profile to display to those you wish to rule. Effectively working around this kind of problem assumes a level of imagination and competence we have no reason to expect at this moment in time. I anticipate a lot of thrashing and blaming, coupled with a constant reference to the Orange Threat, which said threat will reinforce in any way it can.
Couple this with "events" and even my own attempts at disdainful detachment will be difficult to maintain, I fear. Time for breakfast.
Well said. Inslee - and others like him - are losing valuable employees… as they follow the stupidity.
Hell… Inslee can KMA, as well, and I haven’t set foot in Washington since 1995.
---It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
And it is a dangerous assumption. Why do Israel's numbers show natural immunity is 13x better than the mRNA vaccine-induced immunity? Because once the virus mutates, those vaccines lose a lot of efficacy.
The unvaccinated with natural immunity are far safer contacts than the vaccinated.
“It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them. The mandate is government force used against those who are used by the government to apply force to others. It's rough. But force needn't be so crude. And yet, once the government begins a mandate, it's got to bull through. It must have seemed to be working quite well, but when you get down to the last 10%, you see the real effect of the effort at compulsion, and onlookers — including vaccinated onlookers like me — feel sympathy.”
That presupposes that the experimental gene therapy being called a “vaccine” is both safe and effective. There are a lot of reasons to question this. For one thing, normal safeguards have been waived and bypassed. Mostly what we have are bureaucrats assuring us that the vaccines are safe and are effective. The FDA has barriers in place preventing significant reporting of side effects, while the proposed OSHA vaxing rule would not count vaxing side effects for a couple tears. Does that look like they are comfortable that the real science is on their side, or that they know it isn’t, and are demanding vaxing (and masking) anyway? Why are they demanding that millennials, and ultimately younger, without known comorbidities, get vaxed? After all, the original argument was that vaxing those who have almost negligible chance of dying from the virus protects everyone by helping to build herd immunity. Except that the vaxed can, and do, pass the virus on, at almost the rate that the unvaxed do. So, what’s their argument now? That the vaccines reduce the severity of the virus when you get it? Why isn’t that a personal decision then, since their decision to vax or not doesn’t really affect everyone else that much?
Blue state and Dem controlled big city after Blue State and big city are hemorrhaging police and fire personnel because of the vaxing mandates. People they can’t afford to lose. These big city PDs were already understaffed, after their mayors and city councils sided with AntiFA and BLM against them. Now they are forcing out the people who refuse to be vaxed, regardless of reason. If they could hire replacements, the relief would be 6-12 months from now. But they can’t. Worse maybe though, the federal vaxing requirements just forced the firing of a number of senior people at Las Alamos. These are some of our top anti-terrorism and nuclear weapons people. Now unemployed. Resistance to vaxing in the military seems highest in the most skilled positions: special operations, pilots, etc. Millions each to train them, taking years, and they are facing being fired in the near future. It’s almost as if the ChiComs, or the Russians, have taken over our government, and want to destroy as much of it as they can, before they get booted out. How else to explain this brute force hollowing out of high level expertise?
WSJ:New York City to Require Covid-19 Vaccinations for All Public Employees
Mayor Bill de Blasio announced an order Wednesday that means some 46,000 city workers need to get their first shot by Oct. 29 or potentially lose their jobs. The new rule covers 160,500 workers, of whom about 71% are partially or fully vaccinated, according to official estimates. The city said 70% of police and 60% of fire department personnel have received at least one shot.
so, 30-40% of front line troops.... WILL BE FIRED
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them." But the developing understanding seems to be that we have been lied to about the effectiveness of vaccination--or at the very least it has been wildly misreprensented. It apparently does NOT prevent a person from getting the virus and it does NOT prevent a person from spreading it around. All it does is supposedly lessen symptoms . . . but then most people who get the virus do not have life-threatening symptoms anyhow. And for this small value, we are apparently going to have to get boosters while cowering every six months?
I have been twice-vaccinated (Pfizer) and have had the booster. I am not a member of any death cult . . . but actually, I rather understand the hesitancy to be vaxxed. And I am less than satisfied with the way the government is pushing to take over our lives.
I do not think the vaccination mandates and medical misrepresentations are the "mark of the beast" . . . but I do think they are a sign that the current government wants to run and ruin our lives, trampling our freedoms in the process, for no readily provable good.
Why "morbidly obese"? He doesn't look morbidly obese. If his torso appears a little thick in the video, it's probably because he's wearing his PPE under his uniform shirt.
"And to think he had been walking around with a badge and gun for 22 years. His lack of critical thinking skills is dumbfounding."
This comment argues against itself and says more about the commenter's critical thinking skills than about LaMay's.
Bigotry and self-righteousness on display.
The problem for both sides here is that in another year or less everyone will know who was correct - the vaccinne mandators or the vaccine refuseniks. Most political choices have consequences that occur only much later after the decision is made, so there is less potential harm to those making the choices.
Remember the Iraq War vote? Most Democrats certainly tried to forget it as soon as they could, including Joe and Hillary. That was also a political choice that had rather quick public consequences. This forced economic shutdown, mask mandate, vaccine mandate, and so on is another political choice that has near-immediate consequences. Get your popcorn, and watch as the losers (whoever they end up being) try to gyrate out of their choices.
…and is Ann’s ‘last 10 percent’ number actual data or just something she made up?
It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them. The mandate is government force used against those who are used by the government to apply force to others. It's rough.
Good little german.
The fuhrer spoke and Ann obeys.
All of the police who are willing to stand up for individual freedom, Christianity, and religious freedom are purged from the police force. '
I wonder what good little germans think will happen next?
Gee. It is a total mystery what happens next. Like nobody could predict it."
And I am betting that all of the good germans are going to cheer these unforeseen outcomes.
Remember folks. The Right wants the Left to leave us alone. The Left wants the Right to obey or die.
“ It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them.”
Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence, namely that unvaccinated people are significantly more infectious than are vaccinated people. Counsel will provide scientific testimony supporting this predicate claim, or the court will be required to engage a special master to conduct research on the question.
A grand gesture of being helpful and pleasant works better, he'll find. It not only doesn't burn bridges that don't need burning, but it's good for your character. It turns into a habit.
The very way they are “bulling through” is counterproductive and unscientific. “Experts” are afraid to even mention natural immunity, as if it doesn’t exist. Yet that is Nature’s method for PROTECTING the vulnerable. “Experts” are afraid to even mention health and religious exemptions, something routine prior to this fake “emergency.” No we must forget all we knew with scientific certainty prior to Pope Fauci declaring the New Medicine of “do what we say and don’t question it.” That behavior, irrational, uncompromising and contradictory diktats is counterproductive to Public Health and damaging to our society. The scapegoating and fearmongering of the unvaxed while “fully vaccinated” are 50% of new cases exposes the folly of Fauci’s unreasonable approach. And the virus is in decline. Everywhere except China sees a daily decline in cases: delta was weaker not more dangerous, and the next variant will be weaker still. That’s how it happens every single time. If we actually appreciated Free Speech in this country voices of dissent to the current party line would be heard. There’s plenty of medically literate people out there keeping quiet because they too are dependent on CMMS payments. Just look what the Monoculture does to people who do have access to cheap effective therapies like HCQ, Ivermectin or even the monoclonal antibody therapies Biden has decided to ration to states on an “equitable” basis.
Let me reiterate my previous point. There are private/personal reasons to get vaxed, and public reasons to do so. The private reasons should be a personal decision on the part of the vax recipients. What is esp contentious right now are the communitarian public benefiting reasons to require vaxing.
The original reason for vaxing was first that precious hospital resources might be used up by the pandemic. But that didn’t happen, and the ventilator problem disappeared when the medical community discovered that they killed people. The second was that vaxing would get the population to herd immunity. Except that the vaccines available are nowhere close to sanitizing, so the vaxed don’t really count towards herd immunity, since they pass the virus on to others almost as if they hadn’t been vaxed, AND the Delta variant pushing out other, less infectious variants, over the month of July, raised the theoretical population level having to be sanitized for herd immunity from maybe 60% to maybe 80% (herd immunity level is dependent on R0, which essentially doubled with Delta).
To simplify: the public justification for vaxing those unlikely to die from the virus primarily revolves around getting the population to herd immunity. The first problem is that the frequency of breakthrough cases means than the vaxed don’t significantly count towards herd immunity. The second is that the doubling of infectivity (R0) of the virus with Delta, pushed the level needed for herd immunity out of practical reach, even using the most draconian means (such as forcible vaccinations) - and with the inability of the vaccines to prevent, or really even slow, the spread of the virus that much (breakthrough cases), we currently don’t appear to have the ability to get there (to herd immunity) except through natural immunity (people surviving the virus).
"and Jay Inslee can kiss my ass"
that should rise to the top like "Lets Go Brandon"
I’m vaccinated. I reluctantly got vaccinated against my functional medicine doctor’s advice. I have a medical condition that put me at bit higher risk of all three vaccines. He actually recommended I take a vaccine not available in the US but I couldn’t get out of the country and back so it was moot. But, when I weighed business and political decisions into the mix, it was obvious that I couldn’t keep working with my corporate clients unless I was vaccinated. So I did it. Unfortunately, I’ve had swollen lymph nodes under my left arm ever since (5 months) and that’s being monitored now by my functional medicine doctors and my primary care physician. It’s not clear what the medical reason is for the swelling other than the timing with the vaccine. Both doctors told me they were afraid to report my reaction to the FDA database because other doctors they know have been attacked by their state medical boards. Awesome, huh?!
I know of two young men who are now disabled with heart swelling post vaccination. And I know a 52 year old male (a very active gym teacher) who had a stroke within an hour after his second Moderna shot. He’s not permanently disabled and has spent 6 months learning to speak again.
Reactions, are obviously, very rare. And in most cases for most people, vaccination is the safest option. But we can’t say the risk is zero. But, we can’t talk about the risk because of the politicalization of the topic. This pandemic has released a level of authoritarianism and mob-rule that I never expected to see in the US.
And, as a nation born in defiance, I believe we have to resist where we can. Long after this pandemic is gone, the authoritarianism will remain. And that is our biggest risk. I wish I had resisted on vaccine. But I’ll never lose empathy for those who make that choice, even if it’s an act of defiance.
I too am hesitant about the vaccine, specifically for my under 12 male children. I agree with LeMay that we do not know a lot about this vaccine and its long-term protection or safety. When I look at it critically, for my children who have a low risk for severe illness, hospitalization, and transmitting COVID, I do not see the upside of taking on the unknown risk. I am not necessarily opposed to the the vaccine in the future for my children but right now is not the time.
Right now with the climate we are in, which tries to hide or discourage the preliminary data regarding natural immunity as well as adverse effects, I don't think there is a solid effort to really study the potential issues for children (or anyone) long term. I feel that there is enough known particularly about myocarditis post-vaccination (particularly in young males) that has European counties pumping the brakes so that we can learn more about the risks, that my concerns are justified. I am not saying the vaccine is bad, I am simply saying we need unpressured research to learn more.
I am very uncomfortable with the development of the various brands of vaccines (these and others) because of the use of ABORTED fetal cells. It is very possible to obtain fetal stem cells from live births by collecting the umbilical cord etc, I think that is the ethical way to go and I have no issues with medications or vaccines that use that process. I know of one medicine that we use that states on their literature that is the way they operate and it is a credit to them. Even with that uncomfortable feeling, I did go ahead and get vaccinated for me, because my risk profile is vastly different than my children, and let's face it my long-term prospects are shorter than their long-term prospects.
COVID does not affect all age groups the same I and we should not have a one size fits all policy it makes no sense. What is appropriate for me as an adult (one that is middle aged) doesn't make sense for a child because our risk levels are different. It can also be said that what is appropriate for me may not be appropriate for someone that is 65+.
Vax'ed or UnVax'ed can transmit the disease admittedly to varying degrees and it is hard to tell what the true level of difference is. Vax is ultimately personal protection with likely limited protection to the population as a whole. If the gov't entities that were pushing these mandates were serious about public health, they would get serious about including natural immunity in their numbers, they ignore those and it makes me wonder.
At the end of the day, I support your choice to vaccinate or not, because it is mostly personal protection.
Zero sympathy. None. And I agree with the sentiments along the lines of, “What?!? These people are refusing COVID vaccines at the cost of their professional lives?!? What are they thinking?!? What sort of person entertains such thinking?!?”
It’s remarkably common among these kinds of anti-vax professionals; they claim that they have their own valid reasons for refusing the vaccine, but when questioned, they revert to, “It’s my decision, and it’s private.” That’s almost an exact quote from Washington State’s ex-Head Football Coach. It has been the position of NBA star Kyrie Irving. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Qreene stupidly claimed that reporters who asked about her vaccination status were violating federal HIPAA laws.
In this story, it isn’t at all clear to me what this state trooper’s objection to the vaccine is. For my part, I definitely and absolutely do not want to silence this man. No; I want him on every major media outlet; to answer the questions about the basis for his objections. If it is a religious objection, I want to first give him a chance to describe the tenets of his religion and how they relate to the study, production and use of vaccines.
The fascinating thing with so many professional-class vaccine objectors is that they emphatically recite that they are “not against vaccines.” Well, okay. That’s a start. So they concede having no actual knowledge as to any dangers with vaccines that outweigh the benefits. Otherwise, why would these anti-vaxxers be so amenable to others receiving them? Why not go full Anti, and declare that everyone is endangered by the vaccines? That is, if they really knew something the rest of us (supermajority of Americans) who are vaccinated?
So yeah; I have no sympathy at all for this state trooper. Please make yourself really clear about your reasons for not getting vaccinated. And then answer the relevant questions about your position.
And please don’t bother me about some privacy concerns. This guy posted a video of his vaccine that objection on the Internet. Anti-vax NBA players who claim privacy are doing interviews on Fox News, presumably with the explicit understanding that Fox interviewers will not ask any hard questions.
No sympathy for bullshit.
Instead of using persuasion - the left use insults.
I'm all for the vaccine - but i understand why people might feel uncomfortable with it.
It's not been approved by the FDA yet, and the jab is in response to a virus that was probably unleashed on purpose. The whole shit show makes people nervous.
but the left handle it like they handle everything. They insult you and use their power to ruin.
Why do the police and firefighters have to be vaccinated but not the — are they still “undocumented immigrants” or does the Left have a new euphemism? The Biden administration does not inoculate them, merely transship them with no advance warning to random communities around the country. And if the get a job in a meatpacking plant ICE can no longer check any of those plants.
"[O]nce the government begins a mandate, it's got to bull through" -- there's a principle that I wouldn't have thought Ann would so publicly endorse. The Man has to -- has to -- protect his credibility in reminding us that there is a person with a gun behind every rule it makes. I'm sure she felt the same way about the draft in the 60's, and about the War On Drugs.
"Blue state and Dem controlled big city after Blue State and big city are hemorrhaging police and fire personnel because of the vaxing mandates. People they can’t afford to lose."
The people they're losing are the people they want gone. Sure, there'll be some hiccups on the road ahead as they look to fill those positions with good little Germans who will be happy to bust some heads on command- wait... "happy just following orders" is what I meant to say. You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them."
Doesn't this work both ways?
Every member of the public, upon contact with the police (voluntary or not), need to show proof of vaccination. If they cannot do so, they should be taken into custody and vaccinated. They must remain in custody until at least two weeks have passed after their second shot. Then their contact with the police may resume where it left off. Any inconvenience to the member of the public will be the member's responsibility.
Goose / gander, pot / kettle, etc
---so, 30-40% of front line troops.... WILL BE FIRED [gilbar]
This is why hospitals have staffing shortages. The mandates are making life for the average person much more dangerous than the virus ever could have done.
Except not if the virus mutates to a point where the vaccines actually enable it. Vaccinate everybody and where else can the virus go? Do our eminent medical practitioners with titles like Governor and President imagine the viral legions will all keel over with X'es on their eyes, like the cartoons?
This makes perfect sense. Force all police and first line workers to get vaccinated. If they refuse…fire them. And then let hundreds of thousand of unvaccinated illegals into the country to spread Covid after being secretly flown into U.S. cities in the dead of night. We do not know who these people are or where they are living. But, eventually they will start to show up in E.Rs. all over the country to be treated for Covid. U.S. tax payers will pay for their treatment. This airlift is a Covid super spreader. BTW, Jen Psaki, Westchester County Airport is closed after 12:00 midnight to commercial flights. So, these immigrant air lifts were intentionally scheduled to arrive when not too many people were around to witness them. American people do you feel that you are being used by the Biden Administration?
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them."
Now do the postal service, which if I recall has been exempted from Biden's mandate.
Fucking pussy.
Quoted in the post:
"And to think he had been walking around with a badge and gun for 22 years. His lack of critical thinking skills is dumbfounding."
When Progressives say 'critical thinking,'they mean Critical Theory. It's not directly evident from the link, but if you follow it to the source, there are lots of articles there that are more overt about intersectionality, systemic racism, etc.
@Howard
So refusing to go along with the crowd and standing firm on your principles means you are weak? Not seeing it.
If you follow the science, it is no more an exaggeration to say we have an epidemic of the vaccinated than to say we have an epidemic of the unvaccinated. Both groups can carry and spread the virus. Today, the larger group is the vaccinated and hence the larger group of spreaders. The best scientists with wisdom have told us that the only way out of a viral pandemic is by everyone getting COVID, building natural immunity and forcing the virus to mutate to variations that survive by enhanced ability to spread but diminished ability to cause serious harm to humans. Similar to the common cold. Along the way, people can make their own choices on vaccination so long as our medical facilities are not being overwhelmed, which if you remember was the reason for 14 days to bend the curve. But that was before politics became the driving force in COVID policy.
It is well known that Biden chose mandates to prop up his flailing public approval by showing he can take decisive action on the only topic where he enjoyed majority support. Never mind that it divides and hurts America and is ineffective in fighting COVID. As cynical as the day is long.
Vaccination immunity vs. natural immunity - why is the CDC incurious about the efficacy of natural immunity?
Covid Confusion at the CDC
"The CDC’s failure to report meaningful data has left policy makers flying blind. In the absence of good data to answer the basic questions Americans have been asking, political opinions have filled the vacuum. Strong data might have prevented much of the polarization over Covid.
Sound data from the CDC has been especially lacking on natural immunity from prior Covid infection. On Aug. 25, Israel published the most powerful and scientifically rigorous study on the subject to date. In a sample of more than 700,000 people, natural immunity was 27 times more effective than vaccinated immunity in preventing symptomatic infections.
Here's the link to get past the WSJ paywall.
Chuck @ 9:11: Thanks for giving a master class in casuistry and lazy logic, with a side order of callous contempt for the rest of humanity.
Life is too short to demolish your “argument” in full but I must say that your attack on the vx-hesitant for not categorically rejecting all vaccines was outstandingly weak.
CWJ said...
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them."
Now do the postal service, which if I recall has been exempted from Biden's mandate.
Wrong. Particularly wrong is any implication -- which you seem to be making -- that the Biden White House "exempted" the USPS as some sort of favor to Dem-leaning postal workers.
There is no "exemption." USPS workers are not standard Executive Branch employees. They are unionized, under separate contracts which other Executive Branch employees do not have. Essentially, the President is powerless to order them to do things beyond what he can order other private employers to do under OSHA. And even that is complicated by the relevant federal work rules.
There is a current, operative general mask mandate for postal workers wherever they can't be distanced or are involved with anything public-facing.
You're welcome.
No sympathy for bullshit.
But you are full of it. What justification at this time is there for an extended Public Health Emergency? None: 60% of public vaccinated; 15% post-COVID natural immunity; under-18 population = 24% of population and have natural immunity to COVID.
That adds up to a robust herd immunity, where the "fully vaxxed" have zero reason to fear the "unvaxxed" at all, and yes some of the three groups share members. Countries that respect their adult populations have already declared the emergency over. Not our Nazi's! COVID now! COVID forever! Live in fear!
"…and is Ann’s ‘last 10 percent’ number actual data or just something she made up?"
Actual data in the article. Washington got 90% to get vaccinated.
Our resident LLR thinks folks should have to enumerated their reasons and then answer probing questions about this reasons. How did we ever get to such a stage where the personal freedom of others is of no consequence to the little Stalins like Chuck?
- Krumhorn
Chuck:
"So yeah; I have no sympathy at all for this state trooper. Please make yourself really clear about your reasons for not getting vaccinated. And then answer the relevant questions about your position"
Chuck, it does not matter to you what reason he gives-you will say he is wrong anyway. We see it with your obsession with Trump-I could give you a dozen reasons to vote for him and you would not consider a single one valid.
In your world any pretense to privacy goes out the window because one publicly stated a position without a reason. If I post a video saying I believe in God do you have the right to publicly interrogate me? Does a young woman who chooses not to marry have to declare that she's a lesbian or a devout Catholic following in Mother Teresa's footsteps?
I do not have to answer to your demands to hear my private thoughts. I have the right to say no to getting the vaccine or believing in God (or not) or a million other things that are none of your business.
I say this as a breakthrough case in isolation until Sunday. (I just have the sniffles now...)
Fear of covid and vaccine mandates are the result of worldwide mass hysteria.
Along with governments who see it as a perfect tool to control every aspect of our lives...finally.
The Chinese are laughing their commie asses off...
According to OSHA’s website:
“DOL [U.S. Department of Labor] and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.”
OSHA’s website previously stated:
“If you require your employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment (i.e., for work-related reasons), then any adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine is work-related. The adverse reaction is recordable if it is a new case under 29 CFR 1904.6 and meets one or more of the general recording criteria in 29 CFR 1904.7.”
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them."
Which people? Vaccinated people? They're protected. Not that there's no risk, but their risk is much lower. The unvaccinated offer is at greater risk, no?
Unvaccinated adults? You mean, people who made an informed, conscious decision not to get the vaccine, probably for the same reasons as this officer. They're personally responsible for that decision. He's not. They know the risks and are willing to take them. None of our business.
Unvaccinated Children? They're the least vulnerable members of our population. Right now it seems that the risk from the vaccine could outweigh the benefit. The UK isn't even approving the vaccine for young people, let alone mandating it.
It takes about 10 years to get a drug to market. These vaccines were approved within a year. No data as to the long term effects can possibly exist. Certainly, skepticism of the "safety" claims is warranted since the people pushing vaccines the hardest are biggest groups of known liars on the planet - Politicians and the Media.
Big Mike said...
Why do the police and firefighters have to be vaccinated but not the — are they still “undocumented immigrants” or does the Left have a new euphemism? The Biden administration does not inoculate them, merely transship them with no advance warning to random communities around the country. And if the get a job in a meatpacking plant ICE can no longer check any of those plants.
Do you know why you only see questions like this at unserious fringe-right Trumpist websites? It is because it is such a stupid question, that no mainstream political discussions will entertain it.
Let's consider; the simple fact is that at all detention centers, vaccines are offered and even urged. But no one is forced to receive a vaccine. That is, no one is put into restraints and injected. Just like no state troopers in Washington are put into restraints and vaccinated. And no one in the military, or working for a company of 500+ employees, or the executive branch of the federal government, or the NHL, NFL or NBA is being forced to be vaccinated.
And so, illegal entrants are not "forced" into vaccinations. They are treated as human beings under the law. They should be offered vaccines; they are. They should be encouraged to receive the vaccine; they are. They should not be tied down and injected; they aren't. And ultimately, I hope that their asylum/entry claims are judged with extreme caution by our authorities. If I were judging their immigration status, I would view vaccine refusal very negatively.
1959: Health officials have said there is no long-term evidence of harm from giving the anti-nausea drug Thalidomide to pregnant women.
Sometimes you don't know what you don't know, especially about long-term effects of a new vaccine. Now, the Thalidomide evidence piled up pretty quickly in the early 1960s, but we haven't even had nine months yet since the mRNA vaccines were administered to people of child-bearing years. We don't know what the long-term effects will be.
Amazon has N95 masks, the kind of mask that actually can protect the vulnerable from aerosol borne infection like the WuFlu, for a buck apiece. The vulnerable should wear these whenever in the presence of another person, whether that person is vaccinated, masked, or not.
The rest is personal preference, or bullying, as may fit the situation.
“Actual data in the article. Washington got 90% to get vaccinated.”
They deserve Jay Inslee then as Governor.
Still, 90% sheeple is significant.
You people who support this coercion need to consider this- you will be coerced into taking regular boosters and new vaccines from now on. What say you- are you willing to take a booster every 6 months? Are you willing to take the new vaccines against new variants every year?
What is hilarious here is this- had Trump won re-election, most of the vaccine mandate supporters would be on the opposite side of this debate right now, and everyone knows it, too. Who here really doubts that Chuck above would be against a mandate for the very same vaccines if Trump were the one who ordered it? Who doubts Howard would be against such a mandate from Trump? At least the people against the mandates in this thread are standing on principles they held prior to the election- I have faith that they would have opposed the mandates regardless of who the president is.
I took the vaccine and besides the covid protection I also received a stroke. Would I have taken the vaccine knowing it gives a stroke to one out of 69,000 people? I've drawn straight flushes before and those are 1 in 72000. But numbers were not available, the vaccine was pushed as safe and effective, so I took it. All my life I took vaccines. This was the last one though. I'm going to die of something, but it won't come through a needle.
127 Washington State Police Employees Fired Over Vaccine Refusal
In total, 53 civilians and 74 commissioned officers – including 67 troopers, six sergeants and one captain – were fired from their positions.
“As for more than 2,000 individuals who elected to stay with our agency, I am forever thankful,” Batiste said.
Chuck,
Like the Palestinians, you never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. You've turned into a caricature.
Actual data in the article. Washington got 90% to get vaccinated.
Thank you.
Howard, stop calling yourself names.
@Althouse, now let me explain the blunder you have been sucked into. Unless and until you link to an article that lays out what the downside risks of getting the vaccine are, you wind up making it look as though Washington police and firefighters are refusing to get vaccinated out of sheer bullheaded willfulness. What are the risks? Why are people who are not cowards — like firefighters and police — refusing to accept those risks?
Blogger Big Mike said...
@Althouse, now let me explain the blunder you have been sucked into. Unless and until you link to an article that lays out what the downside risks of getting the vaccine are, you wind up making it look as though Washington police and firefighters are refusing to get vaccinated out of sheer bullheaded willfulness. What are the risks? Why are people who are not cowards — like firefighters and police — refusing to accept those risks?
Why don’t you do it yourself?
As for me; I presume the worst of these inexplicable anti-vaccers. That they are Trump fans who nightly watch Fox News. But Mike; that is something where I might very happily be proven wrong. I’d be happy to chat with anyone who felt aggrieved by my presumption. I’d have a series of questions about Trump and the Big Lie, in addition to questions about the pandemic and vaccines. I could be convinced that I was mistaken, but only if they got to do the questioning.
MartyH;
There are a very few, extremely rare medical conditions which make one or more of the COVID vaccines contraindicated. There’s no medical argument about that; the cases are so rare they are hardly worth mentioning.
But we see all kinds of bogus excuses. “I already had COVID... I have religious concerns... I’ve done my own research... “
Which dog-ate-my-homework stories am I missing?
And no, Marty; you really don’t need to receive a vaccine. Just like you don’t need to go to college, hold a military commission, work in my office, eat in my restaurant, or enter my theater. Do what you want, Marty. Just don’t expect to be part of a normal American society where perhaps 70% of us are vaccinated and millions are vulnerable with immune deficiencies.
We don’t want you.
“What?!? These people are refusing COVID vaccines at the cost of their professional lives?!? What are they thinking?!? What sort of person entertains such thinking?!?”
Someone with principles? Something sorely absent in the liberal universe...
Joe, Chuck literally has zero clue what a principle is. He is a coward, a liar, and an idiot wrapped up in one person.
Can people here imagine the comments Chuck would writing right now if Trump were the one ordering people to take the vaccine or get terminated from their jobs? Does anyone here think Chuck would be making the exact same arguments he has made in this thread? Anyone?
In case anyone ever wants to know how the Nazis came to power and killed millions of innocent civilians, simply point them to Chuck's postings in this thread. He is exactly the kind of person who had to walk through Belsen after liberation and see the handiwork of his people.
Chuck is a good little German.
And so, illegal entrants are not "forced" into vaccinations. They are treated as human beings under the law. They should be offered vaccines; they are. They should be encouraged to receive the vaccine; they are. They should not be tied down and injected; they aren't.
The police and firefighters are not “tied down and injected” but they do risk losing their jobs. No “I would hope” about it. Tell them they get inoculated or they go back where they cane from.
You want an indication how stupid all of this is- read these two stories back to back. The first neglects to mention a very, very important fact all the residents and staff were vaccinated a few months ago, while the second one finally gets around to mentioning it the vaccinations, but then blames it all on no boosters.
Story #1
Story #2
“Actual data in the article. Washington got 90% to get vaccinated.”
They deserve Jay Inslee then as Governor.
Still, 90% sheeple is significant."
Actually Bruce, that's 90% of government workers, not the population at large. IOW, 90% of those threatened with being fired. I do make a distinction between those subject to coercion vs. the sheeple.
---We don't want you.
Luv it. Especially the "we."
BTW, do these percent unvaccinated scare stories ever make allowance for the percentage of children in the Population? I doubt it as that would make the percent unvaccinated less scary.
Kai Akker said...
---We don't want you.
Luv it. Especially the "we."
You don’t think that there are many millions of Americans who happily got vaccinated; who reject the anti-vax excuses; and who don’t want to hear any of those stupid excuses any more?
We don’t care about controlling you. We don’t care all that much about you at all. We just want the pandemic to be handled professionally, we want the best reasonable safety for everyone, and we don’t want to listen to your bullshit amid the serious things.
"It's especially important for police to be vaccinated, since people are forced into contact with them."
Really? If that were the case, Inslee wouldn't have exempted SEIU #775 Home Health Care workers from his edict.
Follow the science, they bellow. Ignore the political contributions.
Oh, and fuck you Chuck.
Chuck-
Your pretzel logic lands you exactly where I thought it would-without any room for anyone to have a private thought or opinion.
I am vaccinated. I am also a breakthrough case who is isolating until Sunday.
And yet you want expel me from "normal American society." This desire cannot be based on my vaccination/immunity status. Once my isolation is over I will be less likely to spread Covid than you.
The only reason you want to expel me is because my private opinion is different than yours. You have exiled those who choose to not be vaccinated; you have kicked out those who will not curse the exiled. Who will fail your next purity test, Chuck?
Sorry, Chuck, I'm not joining your mob. It's smaller than you think anyway.
Yes, Chuck can go fuck himself.
Kipling had the governor pegged over a century ago:
“For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!”
He's morbidly obese? Is that comment an example of the reality-based, data-driven thinking that I should trust regarding the vaccine?
MartyH;
So; you are vaccinated. Good!
You are voluntarily isolating, following a diagnosis of a breakthrough case. I wish you a speedy recovery. Your vaccination status will certainly help in that regard.
And as someone who has done both of the foregoing things, I expect that you are someone who, either gladly or reluctantly complies with masking guidelines, rules and mandates.
As such, I have NO DESIRE to exclude you from active participation in society. Why would I? On what basis would I discriminate against you?
I don’t care what your thoughts are. Just get vaccinated, and wear a mask. Or go home. If you are going to refuse, and are going to further argue the point the way that this Washington State Trooper has (and the way that others have), then yeah I will have a lot of hard questions for you.
My saying to you that “We don’t want you” was based solely on the presumption that you were unvaccinated. If you’ve got your vaccination card, you’re all set by me.
My saying to you that “We don’t want you” was based solely on the presumption that you were unvaccinated. If you’ve got your vaccination card, you’re all set by me.
The Horrifying Thing is: Chuck apparently doesn't even realize how horrifying he is
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