"Board the doors shut and stay inside with your AR-15. I think all of these anti-vaxers should be required to have ‘do not resuscitate’ tattooed on their foreheads."
Says the top-rated commenter on a Washington Post article, "‘Vaccine passports’ are on the way, but developing them won’t be easy/White House-led effort tries to corral more than a dozen initiatives."
The commenter is responding to this:
There is evidence vaccine passports could motivate skeptical Americans to get shots. Several vaccine-hesitant participants at a recent focus group of Trump voters led by pollster Frank Luntz suggested their desire to see family, go on vacation and resume other aspects of daily life outpaced fear of the shots, particularly if travel companies and others moved to require proof of vaccination....
Some attendees dissented and warned that requiring a credential would backfire. “I would change my travel plans,” said a man identified as Patrick of Tennessee.
Is the developing opinion that only troglodytes resist vaccine passports? Because I just noticed this:
This is the absolute end of the line for human liberty in the West and if you don’t understand why, ask a techie. Once you agree to this platform any functionality can be loaded into it turning off and on access to society, goods, information, movement, based on your behavior. https://t.co/PtxbtqVfw1
— Dr Naomi Wolf (@naomirwolf) March 28, 2021
Don't conflate resistance to vaccine passports with resistance to getting vaccinated. That's what I think the WaPo commenter did. Patrick of Tennessee objected to "requiring a credential," not to getting vaccinated.
ADDED: I think Wolf may be an anti-vaxxer, so her warning isn't scary.
SO: Let's look at the Guardian article she links to, "Give pause before you raise a glass to the prospect of a vaccine passport/The prime minister’s ‘papers for pints’ scheme is nothing less than a national ID card by stealth."
Obviously, that's the UK, and in the U.S., the "passports" would probably be handled at the state level, like our other IDs. I can imagine the question of vaccine passports in the U.S. getting swirled up into the voter ID drama. Is getting an ID oppressive or something everyone should gladly, willingly do?
From The Guardian:
The UK has already toyed with national ID cards. It rejected them in 2010. As Theresa May, then home secretary, explained in 2010: “This isn’t just about cost savings, it’s actually about the principle, it’s about getting the balance right between national security and civil liberties, and that’s what the new coalition government is doing.”...
Already, the Conservatives have announced plans to introduce a bill to make photo ID mandatory from 2023 for all UK-wide and English elections....
Aha! It is already mixed up in the voter ID matter in the UK.
[T]here would be no need to make photo ID mandatory at elections if people could simply use their “vaccine passport” – because, once we’ve built a system that links our identity to our health data and made this a condition of re-entering pubs, cinemas or concerts, or even our workplace, we could link it to other data too, public or private. This could be used by more than just pub landlords or election officials. The data on our vaccine passports could be used by the police, just as Singapore’s authorities admitted in January to using contact-tracing data.
All this – effectively, as I say, a stealth national ID card without the necessary debate – when we don’t even know if vaccine passports would help to solve our biggest problem: stopping the spread of the virus....
In January, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, said: “We are not a papers-carrying country.” Yet, here we are, with the government reviewing plans to become just that. Only last month, the vaccine minister, Nadhim Zahawi, ruled out vaccine passports, arguing that they could be “discriminatory” since it is not compulsory for people to get the vaccine.
But some Americans (like the commenter at WaPo quoted above) are enthusiastic about discriminating against anti-vaxxers.
Israel, Estonia, Sweden and Denmark are all countries that have introduced, or plan to introduce, vaccine passports for domestic use. There is a key difference: all of them already have a national ID card system. If we are to follow their example, we would first need an evidence-based explanation as to how vaccine passports will help to stop the spread of the virus....
The pandemic has made armchair public health experts of us all, but we need to hear from the real ones to know which trade-offs are necessary, and which are not, as we move into whatever phase is coming next....
I don't think that public health experts can be the last word on "trade-offs," and I don't even know if they can be considered experts on vaccine passports. The issue is whether, given the level of immunity we've already built up, we should limit certain facilities to people who've had the vaccine and, if so, whether we need them to prove their status with an official government document?
And what are the collateral effects of this document? Are we concerned about government surveillance and losing our privacy? Are we collaterally enthused because the document could become the voter ID?
Posts
282 comments:
1 – 200 of 282 Newer› Newest»No video of Kamala Harris warning people not to take the vaccine?
What about Cuomo and Newsome making claims that they would never trust it. All *before* the election, of course.
How about we apply the same standard on vaccination status as Democrats want to apply to voting. Just take people’s word for it.
Don't conflate resistance to vaccine passports with resistance to getting vaccinated. That's what I think the WaPo commenter did.
What the WaPo commenter did was express his delight at the prospect of a totalitarian United States. But I suspect his delight is contingent on being a member in good standing of the Inner Party.
So...requiring a photo ID to vote is irredeemably racist, but requiring travel documents to travel within the United States is just fine and dandy?
I won't get one because it's a racist policy. How the heck are Blacks suppose to comply with this edict? It's another case of "Jim Eagle."
And whatever you, don't conflate getting a vaccine passport with Buttigieg's taxing by the mile or with EZ Pass with monitoring citizen's travel locations or with James Clapper's collection of metadata. It's all for the greater good!
Obviously only a racist white supremacist would support vaccine passports because Black Hesitancy to be vaccinated will lead to a disparate impact on Black travel, creating an internal apartheid. It’s even worse than requiring photo IDs for voting or buying guns.
I think Wolf may be an anti-vaxxer, so her warning isn't scary.
My spidey sense is picking up a logic fallacy...
That's the TOP RATED comment... I always resist my husband's efforts to get me to agree that the United States is now on decline, but when I read things like that, I'm consumed with despair.
"Do not resuscitate" tattooed on their foreheads... Good God.
I remember long dialogues with our older daughter who resisted getting MMR vaxx for her boys. This is an old debate.
I also remember having to get vaccinated in order to travel overseas decades ago, and to carry a little 3x5 card showing where and when I was vaccinated so I could be admitted to US facilities.
But, if this ID card may be massaged to include evidence that one is or isn't a US citizen, and be used before casting a ballot, well then, let's have a chat about this, shall we?
...and to extend that thought, we've been lectured about the racism of vaccine distribution and also about the racism of voter ID since minorities can't figure out how to get one. It would be racist to require them to acquire a vaccine passport.
Stay at home Karen of New York (and Oregon, California, Washington), we don't need or want your policies in red states.
Let's conflate the vaccine passport with voter ID. You may get more takers.
Not for nothing, but I think the reason they have troops in DC and want to gut any remaining election security is because they know how unpopular these pandemic policies of the Democrats are. They are obviously scared of the next election and afraid of the people of the United States.
Washington Post commentators are the people I am being asked to share a country with, and who deny my basic humanity and worth. Please remind me why I should do so.
I think all of these anti-vaxers should be required to have ‘do not resuscitate’ tattooed on their foreheads."
Well, I think WaPoo commenters should be executed, and then have "I was an stupid asshole and now I'm a dead asshole" tattooed on their foreheads and their bodies lined up for display on Main St.
Washington Post commentators are the people I am being asked to share a country with, and who deny my basic humanity and worth. Please remind me why I should do so.
"There is evidence vaccine passports could motivate skeptical Americans to get shots." Yes, and there's evidence cattle prods could motivate people to enter train cars headed for the camps.
Wolf probably is an anti-vaxxer, but I think the first comment Althouse quoted shows that "Patrick from Tennessee" and Wolf have a legitimate concern about how a digitized authorization to move about, or participate in society, can be abused. We don't need to implement our own take on China's social credit system.
Let’s create a national identity card with proof of citizenship and proof of vaccination, use it to buy guns, get benefits, and to vote.
It’s funny how the above sentence is logically consistent from start to finish, and people will drop out of agreement with it at various points for political reasons.
I was surprised last night when wildswan pointed out that the State of Wisconsin already has a comprehensive record of my vaccinations and has posted it online.
In addition to the entirely predictable mistake by the predictably idiotic WaPo commenter (predictable given that the idiotic are WaPo's core audience), anti-vaxxer is primarily a left-wing phenomenon.
It’s an *experimental* vaccine. I knew that when I had it, but it’s still true.
I'm sure the lead commenter would have the requisite sized pair to speak his comment in person. Just another Ritmo-style twerp flexing his keyboard muscles.
Quaestor said...What the WaPo commenter did was express his delight at the prospect of a totalitarian United States.
I've lived almost my entire adult life in deep blue cities, places where "socialist" is the moderate position. In that time, I have met exactly 1 liberal I couldn't easily picture shoving Jews into ovens.
Our President is forcing vaccinations on people just like during the Tuskegee Experiments and WaPo readers support it.
There's no right to air travel in the constitution! And no right to go to the hair salon, either. Plus, this passport would help Keep You Safe.
Nothing says, 'This vaccine is safe and helpful' like the heavy hand of government saying, YOU MUST'.
I think that's on purpose. They want to marginalize dissent, to create a 2nd class citizen.
I think Wolf may be an anti-vaxxer, so her warning isn't scary.
Exactly! If you're wrong about one thing, you're wrong about everything.
I want a digital vaccine passport because I want to go to Europe this summer, if at all possible, though it looks like the lack of the benefit of Trump’s foresight may keep Europe closed for longer, but the idea of using it to restrict the freedom of Americans is hideous.
The fucking math again. The math is that not every single person needs to have the vaccine for it to make a huge difference in the pandemic and to return us to some semblance of normal, normal with a new infection going around at a low level, but still normal. Coercive policies are not required.
Vaccine Id's are RACIST. If voter ID is, then so is Vaccine ID's. There are communities where it is hard to find anywhere to GET a vaccine.
First it was ventilators.
Then it was testing.
Then it was a vaccine.
Now it is a "vaccine passport."
Do you all remember the blowback Arizona got when they wanted people to be able to show that they were citizens if they were stopped for a crime? The NBA was threatening boycotting.
"Show us your papers!" was the refrain, to harken back to the Nazi era. Celebrities were boycotting Arizona.
But these papers....these papers would Keep Us Safe. So why wouldn't everyone want them?
"Vaccine passports’ are on the way, but developing them won’t be easy/White House-led effort tries to corral more than a dozen initiatives."
Who doubts this will end up like the ObamaCare website?
Whether Wolf is an anti-vaxxer, her point is solid. Just look at lockdowns--we all know they were sold as 2 weeks to flatten the curve--a definite goal with a specific endpoint--and then kept in place indefinitely with no clear criteria for when they'd be lifted.
The crisis needed to institute a new oppressive program is far greater than the crisis needed to maintain an existing oppressive program.
Patrick Henry was right! said...
Washington Post commentators are the people I am being asked to share a country with, and who deny my basic humanity and worth. Please remind me why I should do so.
3/29/21, 6:46 AM
THIS. They are the bullies, and the HATERS they claim the rest of us are.....
What skin is it off the nose of some vaccinated blue state 'urban sophisticate’ if she should come into contact with some unvaccinated hayseed bedecked country bumpkin from the hollows of Tennessee? She’s got her vaccine.
I'm not anti-vax, and in fact I've already enthusiastically received my vaccination. Nonetheless, I still don't like the idea of the government requiring any sort of credential to do the sort of things that we were free to do without said credential prior to the pandemic.
Where's the need for a vaccine passport? If they're not lifting restrictions until we reach herd immunity, then what does it matter which of your group are vaccinated and which are not? Then, of course, there is the equity issue of most of the unvaccinated are unvaccinated because they aren't allowed to get vaccinated yet.
Not racist, but ageist and healthist.
The problem with vaccine passports is that such measures are seldom temporary. Will mask mandates and lockdowns disappear? When can we get rid of the TSA? Step by step, life becomes entangled in bureaucratic goo.
Yes, of course. The vaccine 'credential' is the open door for government to decide who can, and who cannot participate in society based on an ever-moving standard that they create. It's right in line with what the Chinese already do, and we're moving toward: A social justice credit score. (the Chinese grade theirs, not on social justice, but on compliance with the government edicts. Ours will be the same, with different edicts to comply with.)
Let's say, in the next 12 months, the anti-racism curriculum is mandated for all by the government. And to prove you've gone through and passed the curriculum, you have another stamp on your government pass. Without it, you cannot get a loan, travel, or go to universities that accept Federal funding.
Absurd, right? Yeah. We're on the cusp of it.
HR-1 is how they plan to make all of this stuff permanent.
I love it. $14 trillion in reparations on top of the $5 trillion plan Joe Biden insists on ramming through, followed by the Mark of the Beast to get into grocery stores? The cloistered fembots who make up the white Democratic base are completely divorced from the idea of consequences. Put these policies through, and the best outcome would be mass disobedience OR dead guards across the country. The worst option (for them) would be AND, followed by "kill the bankers and their wives!" as a mandatory national rallying cry. It would be much more popular than reparations, that's a promise.
There's no right to air travel in the constitution!
"Current US Code addresses air travel specifically. In 49 U.S.C. § 40103, "Sovereignty and use of airspace", the Code specifies that "A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.""
Vaccines are not 100% effective.
A "vaccine passport" will not be 100% fool proof.
Where is the science that backs this idea?
Even a liberal SC should toss this idea out 9-0.
Holding a vaccine passport shows political status (e.g. public policy status), rather than health status.
This is its intent.
Blogger tim in vermont said..."What skin is it off the nose of some vaccinated blue state 'urban sophisticate’ if she should come into contact with some unvaccinated hayseed bedecked country bumpkin from the hollows of Tennessee? She’s got her vaccine."
This is the attitude I wish would prevail. Once everybody's had an opportunity for vaccination we should just say, "We're done. All restrictions and mandates removed. If you get the WuFlu now, it's on you."
tim in vermont said...
HR-1 is how they plan to make all of this stuff permanent.
3/29/21, 7:05 AM
You can make up any kind of crazy law, the problem is how you'll enforce it. At minimum, most of the red states are going to refuse the voting mandates totally, assuming the Supreme Court doesn't just strike the whole thing down immediately. Governors who insist on putting through Buttgag's asinine tax per mile will find themselves lynched.
Actually, the federal government committing suicide is excellent news for us. It means we can repudiate the entire domestic federal debt and hunt down anyone who tries to put a claim on it.
There is the issue of international travel. I would have no problem getting a vax passport for that.
How can anyone be forced to take an UNAPPROVED, EXPERIMENTAL drug?
We do not have an approved vaccine and are not likely to for at least 12 to 18 months.
John Henry
FDA approval is not all it's cracked up to be.
It's somewhat fun, in a dark way, watching the left and the establishment right burn through every last scrap of social capital. All because Orangemanbad.
I think it's really interesting that people are being led to believe it is the Trump voters/white people who are being anti-vaxxers and who won't wear masks. In my experience (my lived experience!) they are only one group.
Minorities also seem to fall into this group. Not far from me there is a diaspora that has come from totalitarian governments, and they aren't especially quick to fall in line with all these mandates.
Original Mike said...
There is the issue of international travel. I would have no problem getting a vax passport for that.
It depends how it is operated, but yeah for a lot of countries you already have to have certain vaccines to get a visa.
Would we require people to be vaccinated to come here? There are a lot of countries that are having trouble getting their people vaccinated.
"Stay home Patrick of Tennessee. We don’t need maga anti-vaxers spreading pestilence across our country. As a matter of fact, don’t even leave your trailer park.""
I mean really, imagine saying this to an anti-vaxxer who lives in the City of Detroit. What is wrong with people?
Washington Post’s main job seems to be to ladle out fodder for today’s two-minute hate.
"Would we require people to be vaccinated to come here? There are a lot of countries that are having trouble getting their people vaccinated."
For the time being, I would say yes. We don't owe anyone entry. But eventually we should be able to say, "Come on in, we're all vaccinated here".
I mean really, imagine saying this to an anti-vaxxer who lives in the City of Detroit. What is wrong with people?
Anti-southern bigotry is real, and is socially acceptable to the type of people who inhabit the Washington Post comment section.
"Would we require people to be vaccinated to come here?”
Yeah, we will picket the Mexican border with officials demanding digital vaccination status from all crossers any day now.
In Joe Biden's America, hate trumps love.
Why waste time paying attention to Washington post commentators? They are hacks and trolls. They make ny times commentators look like geniuses in comparison.
“Dr” Naomi Wolf is one of the craziest people on the planet
Would we require people to be vaccinated to come here? There are a lot of countries that are having trouble getting their people vaccinated.
No, because demanding that foreigners vaccinate themselves before coming to your country is white supremacy.
What evidence is there for the smear that Wolf is an "anti-vasxer"?
Because someone demonized her as such after she came out against forced vaccination?
Is that your entire basis for it? Where is the evidence she has condemned all vaccines -- or any vaccine before this?
And legally, is it even a "vaccine" I read the law and the rna Pfizer Moderna vaccines may not meet the criteria. They might but the definition is confusing.
This has nothing to do with whether or not it works.
If it is legally a "vaccine" Pfizer & Moderna are exempt from any product liability lawsuits.
If it causes problems one can only beg compensation from the usg's vaccine fund.
John Henry
Vaccine passports would be the beginning of social credit scores.
My social credit score would be negative. White, male, conservative, Catholic and reader of the Althouse blog.
What does the Biden Harris Admin have against poor and minorities traveling. This demand that they buy a ticket, carry a Real ID, and now a medical passport? Republicans only want one to vote because they aren’t racists.
I was reading comments from people who had gotten the vaccine in my city. At least one was saying that the place they had gone did not ask them for an ID. If the providers aren't verifying that the person getting the vaccine is who they claim to be, it's already too late for a vaccine passport to have any meaning.
I have concerns about both. I absolutely oppose the passport idea. And I’m agnostic on the so-called “vaccine” because there are persistent medical reports of people who not only get C-19 again but are extremely ill compared to unvaccinated people in their risk group who contract C-19 are. Looking into that revealed these therapies are all modified MRNA gene therapies NOT a vaccine as we understand the term. Before, every vaccine was a partial virus, and the body created an immune response by making antibodies to attack any living viruses that had the same structural pieces as were in the vaccine. MRNA therapies are very different and were under development already for other applications pre-C-19, which is why they were so quickly adapted for this “pandemic.” That quick trip from lab-to-market cut corners in each of the several therapies being used now. Trials that took years to do properly to FDA guidelines were “done” in weeks.
- This rush to production is the main reason medical professionals are reluctant to be “vaccinated”
- Technically it is gene therapy not a vaccine
- I have few high risk factors and take zinc & vitamin D supplement
- I’m not in a hurry to test drive gene therapy yet
- The vaccine is being weirdly pushed on us by the usual fascist public-private progressives propagandists who always lie
- Every prominent vaccine proponent has continued to wear masks (plural) and insists still that we socially distance and be locked down forever
- Actions and voices of “medical authorities” during C-19 have lost all credibility for their admitted false statements flip flops and contrarian diktats that contravene the Constitution (locking up well healthy people) and killed more people than the WuFlu
- The whole damned world joining the Great Flu Panic does not convince me any leaders have enough sense to really lead us
There’s more but that’s my initial reaction to the fascist passport idea.
My comment there : Yellow stars? Pink triangles? That’s where such nonsense leads. Whoever came up with the idea for these “passports” needs to be banned from public service for life. People wanted to tattoo AIDS carriers in the early days too.
There is a point where resistance will get nasty. This could be it. Texas relaxed mandates and has lower cases. NY and NJ now have worse records because they try to keep the screws on and people cheat.
As I said last night, this is systemic racism.
"Show me your papers!" Ring a bell?
"Tim in vermont said...
It’s an *experimental* vaccine. I knew that when I had it, but it’s still true."
It's not even a vaccine, not in the historical sense. They changed the medical definition to make it fit.
I wonder if the person who thinks "trailer park" is a put down considers themselves the kind of person who makes fun of poor people.
My wife was at a luncheon with several leftie ladies of a certain age who were talking about the people in their families who were in the medical profession and were not getting vaccinated because they believed the long term effects of the vaccine had not been fully investigated
This pandemic has something for everyone. Don’t want to get vaccinated? There are reasons: this vaccine was rushed through without proper vetting. This vaccine is a plot by the left to infringe on our freedoms. This vaccine was a plot by Trump to get re-elected. This vaccine was read not announced timely to get Trump defeated. Who needs a vaccine? Just wear your mask.
Want to get vaccinated? There are reasons: I want what I want when I want it. Can I leave the house? Those teachers want to crowd in ahead. My children need to get vaccinated before I’ll let them leave their pod. Etc.
Comments, like this one, are made by idiots. Comments , like this one , are made by geniuses.
"Stay home Patrick of Tennessee. We don’t need maga anti-vaxers spreading pestilence across our country. As a matter of fact, don’t even leave your trailer park."
"Board the doors shut and stay inside with your AR-15. I think all of these anti-vaxers should be required to have ‘do not resuscitate’ tattooed on their foreheads."
That is pretty funny as MOST anti-vaxers that I know are VERY left and liberal and Democrat.
At this point I'm not even sure our public health experts are expert at public health. I certainly would not accept them as the Deciders for what amount of liberty one should give up for their promise of security. We are not Israel. We are 50 states, most of which are larger than Israel. We have state issued id's to allow us to do what we need to do (or what we are compelled to do, such as get a fishing license, or a concealed carry permit.)
Once we issue a national ID, you've infringed on the rights of states (once again). There is zero need for a national ID other than to be used to grab power, and coerce behavior at some point.
How can anyone be forced to take an UNAPPROVED, EXPERIMENTAL drug?
Good point John Henry. Some medical insurers refuse to cover the weird voracious C-19 that afflicts some after “vaccination” because of the unproven MRNA therapies.
The funny thing to me is that if you asked the average person on the street if they would risk their lives to protect their children against a totalitarian regime, they'd picture themselves storming the beach at Normandy and feel all noble and say yes with no hesitation.
But ask them to risk a cold virus and the answer is "get a fucking mask on that three year old, inject yourself with whatever we tell you to and surrender all your health and movement information to the government and MAYBE we'll let you leave your house."
I'd be pissed if I weren't so tired.
And the 'hey it's not FDA approved so that's our saving grace' people: Get real. Like they can't magically issue an approval? They can do whatever illogical, dishonest shit they want.
Why is OK when a liberal rants uses the caricature of a dumb, poor white trailer dweller but not OK to do same about dumb, poor, minority ghetto resident?
Twentieth century themes. The driver's license in the U.S. was an initiative by big-p Progressives to improve driver safety. Show a card to confirm that you have demonstrated some measure of safe driving. Farmers, of course, have always tended to get everyone driving every vehicle, at an early age, for the convenience and necessity of getting the work done; so there was an urban/educated vs. rural/less educated bias. For African Americans, who had largely moved from sharecropping to life in the city, the driver's license was one of the bureaucratic obstacles to fitting in. In the language of today's academy, testing drivers had a disparate impact on people of colour, and that is still true today: less likely to own a car or have access to one, intimidated or uncomfortable in offices that require taking turns, identifying yourself, following prescribed rules. As life became more bureaucratic, many organizations including banks wanted to see a driver's license with current address. That is even of some relevance for voting; adding something about citizenship is another matter.
So: is voter ID a racially-neutral tool to keep voting fair, or are Republicans hoping for a racially disparate impact? Is it wrong to prefer citizens, since that might also skew away from people of colour? Does everyone in the world have a right to vote in U.S. elections? Now Dems are generally all for a vaccine ID--they think public health is a racially neutral ground on which to stand in order to benefit "everyone" and restrict freedom. There is good evidence that African-Americans are heavily anti-vaxx, and not just anti-this vaxx.
Mr. Pants sent me that WaPo article and I made the mistake of reading the comments. The one Althouse pulled was far from the worst one.
One step closer to Police stopping you with "papers, please".
1: US Passports are handled at a national level
2: Americans have a constitutional right to travel where we will. Requiring "internal passports" (which is what teh vaccine passport is) in order to travel should hit you with a "your papers please" communist / nazi vibe
3: Is there going to be a big national database of everyone who's had the vaccine, and what vaccine they've had?
You're going to let the Federal Government keep track of all your health care? Want to put it all in one place so the Chinese et. al. can hack it easier?
No?
Because without a bar code that causes an internet lookup that take the paper checker to the secure Federal database they can check your "vaccine status" against, the "vaccine passport" is just an easily faked piece of paper.
It's a stupid idea. No wonder the junior league fascists at the WaPo comments section love it
There are at least two good reasons to not want the COVID vaccines: the 10x faster testing and approval process, and the new “mRNA” or modified RNA technology it uses (speaking here of the non-J&J vaccines).
If you’re fine with all of that plus signing a waiver acknowledging you’re letting them do experiments on your RNA, and that you cannot sue the manufacturer, I hope it works out for you. Count me out.
But it’s hardly a fringe viewpoint to decline, based on all that, especially for the healthy and non-obese.
And “anti-vaxxer” is absolutely the wrong label to apply here — there is some overlap, sure, but those two main factors above put this set of vaccines into an entirely new category.
If vaccines work why do you care if I get one
If vaccines work why do we still have to distance and mask
If vaccines don't work why are they being pushed so hard
If hospitals aren't full why do we give a shit who gets the virus
If obesity kills and it does why is sugar and fat legal
If healthy people survive it almost universally why do we try to keep them from getting it
If the vulnerable are vaccinated why do we care if kids catch and spread it
If the more it spreads the less dangerous it gets why are we not protecting the vulnerable and encouraging it to spread in the nonvulnerable
There is big big money to be made in big data which is what the passports are about
It will soon reach the point where we need more paperwork to visit family across a state border than to vote.
Recall when Michigan Governor Whitmer (D-Cruella) threatened doctors who prescribed the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine for Covid? Why? Because it worked.
Oh I forgot another question inspired by that concert in Barcelona thing:
If rapid tests are helpful for entry to things than why still mask
If false negatives are a thing necessitating masks then why test at all
If you want expert opinion on tradeoffs you need to talk to economists, not doctors...
The issue is whether, given the level of immunity we've already built up, we should limit certain facilities to people who've had the vaccine and, if so, whether we need them to prove their status with an official government document?
I think you’ll find that those who want to have this limit want a limit for many other reasons. I agree with the UK author that this is just an excuse for other nefarious reasons to limit freedom without testing those reasons in the open.
People who support this “vaccine passport” idea are definitely pushing us down the road to the CCP-style social credit score system.
Do you *really* want to live in a world where armed government bureaucrats man checkpoints where they divide us up into the favored and those “other people”?!
Think harder. Americans really suck at understanding just how awful most of the world has always been, and still is, save for within our borders. I don’t want your failure of understanding and imagination to ruin the future for my kids and grandkids.
Generally missing from these discussions is the time element--the window from the earliest the passport can realistically be developed and issued to the point at which the pandemic is over will be, at most, a couple months.
So why would we bother? What's the real motivation? (Rhetorical question, folks!)
The idea of limiting access to "certain facilities" to those whose breathing is deemed dirty and dangerous:
Funny how I'm a bigoted asshole if I don't want homeless people teeming with scabies looking at porn at the library, or male sex offenders in women's prisons or locker rooms, but these covid fanatics think they're the Good Guys claiming they can't have people who elected not to take experimental gene therapy against a cold virus in line behind them at the grocery store.
Can I get off Clown World yet?
The social security number was supposed to be for retirement plan purposes only, but now you are required to use it to do business in many market places, including tax reporting. Freedom does not mean what it used to mean.
Generally missing from these discussions is the time element--the window from the earliest the passport can realistically be developed and issued to the point at which the pandemic is over will be, at most, a couple months.
You and I both know the pandemic will never be over. Mencken: “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”
“Dr” Naomi Wolf is one of the craziest people on the planet
This isn't an argument. Do better.
Should your vaccine passport have picture ID?
Watch them squirm.
Mask pussies morph into vaccine pussies, film at eleven.
Regarding conflating the vaccination passport with a voter ID requirement:
1 - There is already a voter ID ‘system’ in place - it’s called your driver’s license (or a free, state issued non-driver’s ID if applicable). Nothing new ID-wise needs to be created. The vaccination passport is a whole new entity.
2 - All states/municipalities have laws on the books since forever requiring you to be a resident of that state/municipality. Showing your driver’s license is just the method of proof. On the other hand, there are no laws on the books in any state that I’m aware of where someone frequenting a restaurant, store, theater, bus, airline, etc. has to show ANY proof of anything in order to be present there - a very onerous requirement to be added. (Believe me, if they can restrict your travel within the US, then they can restrict your participation at any venue they want to).
3 - The voter ID requirement only applies to voting, which takes place very infrequently, and many people choose to skip (it’s a civil responsibility, not a lifestyle choice). Vaccination passports could be used to restrict all kinds of public access that has never in US history been restricted before - even daily needed activities.
4 - Where does HIPPA come into this? I can’t find out medical information about my own wife without her permission, but total strangers can find out about my medical immunizations? Start of a very slippery slope.
"Once you agree to this platform any functionality can be loaded into it turning off and on access to society, goods, information, movement, based on your behavior."
It's the prog dream. Complete control. Exclude the deplorables. Follow the CCP's example.
A vaccine passport is not a bad idea as an incentive, as long as it's only for optional activities - like attending an in person baseball game or seeing a broadway show.
But the way it's being implemented is just stupid and removes any benefit.
In New York, the new vaccine passport expires 10 weeks after vaccination. What are people supposed to do, get another vaccine? Nobody who is on the fence about vaccines is going to be swayed by a 'passport' that lasts less than 3 months. I've had the vaccine and I won't even bother going through the hassle of downloading the app.
Mask pussies morph into vaccine pussies, film at eleven.
This is all you got out of this thread? If that's the case, you really are a shallow, unthinking person.
The concept requires a Gestapo Chip. How else can the Progressives enforce what Dr injected each inmate with what strength vaccine when. And mere facial recognition cameras will miss too much illegal human Freedom going on.
As a PI, I know if there's a record of something it is NEVER private and can be abused. I like to gamble. I am a responsible gambler. But I don't like a record of my gambling so I don't do player's cards. Last week I was in NM and stopped @ an Indian casino. You could not get in unless you got a player's club card.."contact tracing" was the reason. Contact tracing is the biggest pretext ever created. But, I was assured I only needed the card to enter, not to gamble. I get the card, walk up to the crap table, and I'm told I can't play unless I use my card.
Folks, I see the world through a different lens than most everyone based on my professional life. This is beyond Orwellian and we need to resist, and revolt if needed.
After this past year if you don't think a Vaxx pass would be used to track you every where you go, you're a fucking moron.
As above, I assume there will be something like it for international travel, but other countries actually think borders are a good idea, unlike Democrats and I can respect the argument. Plus it's not like they don't already record you coming and going with your regular passport.
Internally, however, the FBI will have a very large database of all of your movements, and that visit to buy ammo? Expect a SWAT team at your house. The pub crawl? Your health insurance mysteriously doubles next year. etc etc.
The next step is eliminating cash.
"I'm sorry, sir. It shows your passport has been suspended for violating the mask mandate. Please visit the DHHS website for details on the violation and requirements for re-in statement."
A health passport that doesn't accommodate naturally acquired immunity is merely coercive.
4 - Where does HIPPA come into this? I can’t find out medical information about my own wife without her permission, but total strangers can find out about my medical immunizations? Start of a very slippery slope.
Agreed.
And it isn't like COVID is the only dangerous, contagious disease. Why would we stop at COVID?
And while we are thinking about it, the CDC wanted to study gun violence as a medical condition. So maybe whether or not you have a gun could be added to this passport. For public safety, of course.
(wasn't the idea already floated that if you were on the no-fly list you shouldn't be able to buy a gun? Really, for our safety there should just be a list of people who can't fly or buy guns or travel at all or get hotel rooms. We would all be safer)
Tracking apps. More good reasons to turn off the effing phone when not in use. The freedom and power to ignore.
DavidUW said...
After this past year if you don't think a Vaxx pass would be used to track you every where you go, you're a fucking moron.
People were voluntarily turning tracking on their phones so someone/something out there could track if you came across a contaminated person. It's so very creepy. But of course it will just be used this one time, just like government lockdowns will just be used this one time.
How about an HIV passport.
Mask pussies morph into vaccine pussies, film at eleven.
Film at eleven?
Howard must be the life of the party at the rest home.
At least until fruit cup time.
"Top rated comments" at the Washington Post almost always express profound hatred of one's fellow Americans. They don't want to live in another country, but they sure wish you would.
DBQ writes: What the HELL has happened to America?
Resident Biden.
Any other questions?
A vaccine passport is not a bad idea as an incentive, as long as it's only for optional activities - like attending an in person baseball game or seeing a broadway show.
This isn't incentive, it is compulsion. And participating in society is not an optional activity, but a fundamental aspect of human life. We don't consign lepers to leper colonies anymore.
We don't plan to get Covid shots. If the shots worked, provide immunity, then we would not have to wear masks anymore right??? But no. Take the government mandated shot and still hunker down in your house and wear a mask...no TWO masks at all time. What is the point?
We are planning a road trip to Texas and back in the spring/summer. Taking our 5th wheel and stopping at KOA or Good Sam campgrounds along the way, or just over-nighting at a truck stop or rest stop. Take some side trips to look at points of interest.
Is THIS going to be prevented as well? Are we going to be stopped at the borders by internal, state to state Stassi? Our movements are going to be tracked and restricted to within a certain distance from our homes? Put us in jail and confiscate our cars to keep us under lock and key? Restrict the times, days and distances we can travel to get groceries or visit the Doctor?
I'm taking a flight on Wednesday, my first since Covid. I will be bringing my "half-vaccinated" card just in case. I don't get my second shot until I after return, but I figure it can't hurt to have proof of the first shot. Anyone flown recently? How was it?
Seriously, the vaccination resistance is about the Bill Gates “ we must control the world population” types development of injectable nano particles designed to release a dose of whatever in the population upon activation by a satellite signal.
That would be the perfect final solution to surplus people and those deplorable groups. Just get them all injected.
FTR I am vaccinated with Johnson & Johnson. But the damn masks rules still apply to us Vaccinees.
Flying is the same as it always was. Except you must mask. And no snacks.
I've flown six times since November. Will fly four more times in the next few weeks.
I take that back. There were snacks. Given to you in a pre-packaged bag.
Quaestor said...
DBQ writes: What the HELL has happened to America?
Resident Biden.
Any other questions?
And how did we get Biden?
Hint: There's reason we're adopting a CCP model of governing. If you've ever posted anything remotely critical of the past election on-line I suggest you scrub it before these "passports" take affect.
Do you all remember the blowback Arizona got when they wanted people to be able to show that they were citizens if they were stopped for a crime?
The best part was Los Angeles city council voting to boycott Arizona, then their staff had to tell them that 25% of LA's electricity comes from Arizona. Boycott cancelled.
We just went through the "real ID" drivers' licenses two years ago.
That WaPoo letter was typical of that group. Why worry about an unvaccinated person in Tennessee when you are immune to the virus. It is well known that areas with lots of unvaccinated kids are found around "Whole Foods" markets. The indicator of the politics of anti-vaxxers.
I can deal with the masks, it's only a 90 minute flight.
Hilarious that the Democrats are going to try to get Americans to stop moving around while they simultaneously invite every foreigner to come here illegally. Next move is housing the people who cross state boundaries without a vaccine passport with all the illegal aliens who crossed. All in the name of fairness, of course!
Blogger I Callahan said...blah, blah blah... If that's the case, you really are a shallow, unthinking person.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Thinking deeply never got anyone out of a pickle, Professor.
At the airport, hang out near a bar area with a glass of beer that you sip from once in a while and the mask can be down.
I bet part of the impetus for the vaccine passport is the realization that many blue cities and congressional districts are hemorrhaging residents. That's going to have ugly secondary and tertiary effects for decades.
The system of state Vax registries accessed by a bar code on a Vax passport scanned at the front entrance to restaurants and so on is a back door to an American version of the Chinese social credit system. It should be resisted. This is especially true because the VaxPass will segregate minority communities (which on average are refusing to vax). Critical race theory, now required learning, teaches us we should resist such a policy with such consequences as racist. VaxPass is white supremacy. Instead we should demand that .gov opens the country in the way Texas and Florida are open. But what if His Fauciness refuses to open the country and yet you could travel, take airplanes and go to restaurants, exercise in a gymn without choking in a mask, get back to health and beaches - all this because you had a VaxPass. What would you do?
In Texas, students under 22 attending on campus classes at public or private colleges and universities are required to submit proof of immunization for meningitis B before they can enroll. Students get documentation from the doctor's office verifying vaccination, and the student's records with the college are protected so that information isn't released to others.
The exceptions for the vaccination requirement are
(1) an affidavit or a certificate signed by a physician who is duly registered and licensed to practice medicine in the United States, in which it is stated that, in the physician's opinion, the vaccination required would be injurious to the health and well-being of the student;
(2) an affidavit signed by the student stating that the student declines the vaccination for bacterial meningitis for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief.
If the state wants to make a similar requirement for COVID 19, of even if individual employers want to make vaccination a requirement for all employees, I think it can do so in a similar fashion without infringing on civil liberties, but a digital vaccine passport is much more of a threat because it allows institutions to screen out "undesirables" with virtually no effort, and can easily be expanded from having a COVID-19 vaccine to almost anything someone might think of as desirable/undesirable- testing for STDs, owing a firearm, CPR certification, DEI training, etc.
Wow, the Nazis only implied that Jews spread pestilence.
@lincolntf - flying is easier because there are fewer people on many planes and in the airport. On the other hand wearing a mask for the full duration of a long flight is unpleasant. But that handful of people who were inevitably hacking up a lung in the flu season are nowhere to be seen or heard.
Youre not wrong people are the contagion
https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/03/the-myth-of-the-sturgis-motorcycle-rally-as-a-super-spreader-event/
I noticed that communist and tyrannical states always focus on controlling the movement of people, goods, and wealth. The whole idea of the Berlin wall to keep the people in and other influences out.
Vaccine passports, either by design or as a side effect enable this. It's no less dangerous to liberty just because you've convinced a few million newly minted hypochondriacs (created by information aggregated via the state) to demand such controls.
Then they will want it to be visible so the CCTV cameras can identify the non-vaxxers. And a sticker on your car, so that the non-vaxxers can pay additional tolls.
But what if His Fauciness refuses to open the country and yet you could travel, take airplanes and go to restaurants, exercise in a gymn without choking in a mask, get back to health and beaches - all this because you had a VaxPass. What would you do?
I realize we live in Clown World* and logic doesn't matter anymore, but I don't really understand the claimed necessity for a VaxPass to "open." My gym no longer requires masks and even the staff doesn't wear them, I've been eating in restaurants since dining rooms reopened in May of 2020, several of my regular hangouts no longer require the wear-a-mask-to-the-table kabuki, my preschoolers go to school without masks and will go to a different school this fall that also doesn't require masks, I've taken several unnecessary leisure trips via plane and driving and lots of other are doing the same (you should see the plans flying around in my kid's uni moms group re graduation celebrations and indeed Air BnBs are booked solid), etc. Pearl-clutching covid hysterics don't like it but many many many people in this country are moving on, some because they've been vaxed but none because there is a vaccine passport.
The carrot at the end of the stick doesn't even make sense.
(*hat tip to dearly departed commenter AngleDyne)
Anti- Trump obsessives are sure filled with hate.
sort of like the Boulder market killer.
I suspect any rush to implement a "vaccine passport" is to falsely attribute credit for herd immunity -- that would happen anyway -- to the passport in order to justify its creation.
15And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.16Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,17so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark,that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.18This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
—Revelation 13:11–18
COVID-666
Naomi Wolf, fighting for freedom!
Who knew?
Welcome aboard.
Glad to have you here.
We’re short handed.
At the airport, hang out near a bar area with a glass of beer that you sip from once in a while and the mask can be down.
That works with a cup of coffee around my town.
Fauci and other "Public Health" officials are not elected and shouldn't be making policy. Recommendations, sure, policy, nah. The people I know and interact with, excepting a sister-in-law, understand that Covid is with us permanently, that once you are vaccinated you are free to meet with and interact with others, without a mask, and at this point in the pandemic we can return to normal life and activities.
@whiskeybum
I am unaware of any state that requires proof of id to register to vote or vote. In NY and CA - there is definitely no requirement for either.
Naomi Wolf, fighting for freedom!
Who knew?
Welcome aboard.
Glad to have you here.
We’re short handed.
Too bad there isn't some way to put the anti-mask, anti-any business restrictions, anti-Fauci, anti-social-distancing contingent - well represented on this blog -- at the end of the line for vaccines. I don't expect many of them to have the courage of their convictions and voluntarily wait until everyone who followed the rules and guidelines go ahead of them.
You might be doing a few things now, Pants, but once you get the vax, you can go sit on opposite sides of the same room with the grandparents, all of you masked, and you MIGHT be able to have a neighbor over for a hot dog on July 4, provided he sits on the other side of the backyard to eat it.
Funny how that works, like a sword of damocles.
Althouse labels Wolf an ‘anti-vaxer’. Resisting a forced experimental vaccine is not anti-vax, it’s anti-bullshit. People questioning all the COVID lies are not against vaccines for measles, mumps, etc...
But let’s lump it all together with some crap like “climate denier”. Typical liberal bs.
Pfizer is now testing their mRNA on infants. Great market expansion. I can only assume Althouse is now “pro-sticking experimental shit in un-aborted babies.” That’s the feminist mRNA vaccine position, right?
There is an ad running in my state that says things like "I'm getting vaccinated so I can hug my grandchildren again!" and all I can think about is how cruel it is there are some people out there who think they shouldn't already be hugging their grandchildren.
(Ive had my first vaccine, I am thrilled. I am unafraid of any repercussions just like I am unafraid of getting COVID. I got my parents their vaccines, and I am thrilled about that too. But they were hugging their children, grandchildren, and great grand children well before that)
Like i say, heinlein couldnt imagine how crazy the world would become.
So many of the rules out there are so silly. As Pants mentions, the restaurant Kabuki. Masks off at the table as the masked waiter serves you. Bus people, ungloved, pick up your dirty silverware and drinking glasses. Someone is in the kitchen washing those things off.
The NCAA tournament-- masks on when sitting on the benches, socially distanced. Masks off when you are playing right up against each other. Coaches masks on while they watch the game. Masks off when they yell to the team from the sidelines. Masks off in the huddle. Then masks back on when they go to sit down again.
We have had both shots. When I got the first one I got a little card showing that I had received the shot, then when I got the second one they added it to the card. I said then to my Wife and friends that the little card would be a "passport" to get into places and to travel. By travel I meant via air, but I would be willing to bet that they might be necessary to get on a bus, a Taxis, Uber or any type of public transport.
I note that a lot of comments (so many so early) mentioning the Mileage Tax. Here in CO our Dem legislature has already discussed it. We know that something is coming. A mileage tax (actually in CO it would be a fee) is better than raising taxes on a gal of gas. It at least hits EV's and Hybrids.
Regarding the Guardian article, there is a great old British platitude intended to squash rumbling from the middle classes and below: “The man in Whitehall does know better.”
Our Guardian writer (a fan of Platonic guardians?) has trouble sorting it all out, doesn’t he? He’d like a national ID, but only for proper purposes.
In the new normal, how will using elevators work?
The world we live in, in deep and often subtle ways, was not designed for remote work, for social distancing, and for mask wearing.
Don't make the mistake of thinking our elites know what they are doing. They have made the mistake of thinking that they can shape the collective future by the efforts of individual will.
LYNNDH said...
"We know that something is coming. A mileage tax (actually in CO it would be a fee) is better than raising taxes on a gal of gas."
You will get both.
"You say that like it's a bad thing."
At least you finally admit you're a useless blithering idiot.
Engelbert reveals he no longer understands the country he is living in:
“ Stay at home Karen of New York (and Oregon, California, Washington), we don't need or want your policies in red states.”
Imagine your lawn Engelbert. You want to mow it. Do you care that blades of grass object?
Blogger JeanE said...
In Texas, students under 22 attending on campus classes at public or private colleges and universities are required to submit proof of immunization for meningitis B before they can enroll. Students get documentation from the doctor's office verifying vaccination, and the student's records with the college are protected so that information isn't released to others.
The meningitis B vaccines are not experimental.
Will Biden and Harris require vaccine passports for all the kids the have hidden under tinfoil blankets before they get into America, or is importing future Democrat voters more important than saving grandma? 700 kids packed in an 80 person facility is reason #2478 that you know COVID is bullshit.
And of course...not a word of criticism from beast markers Fauci or Gates.
@independent
Too bad the pro-lockdown, pro-Fauci, pro-social distancing contingent never had to live with the the consequences of what would happen if everyone strictly followed the protocols they claim to want. Fortunately for you the police, fireman, medical personnel, food service workers, Amazon delivery workers, truckers, plumbers, electricians....... kept showing up. Many did not have the luxury of social distancing as they had to ride public transportation which was at reduced schedule because transit workers were hit hard by corona but kept showing up when able. Guess what, if a NYC sanitation worker's family had covid, the sanitation workers were told unless they personally test positive - show up to work. Same for all the other city agencies that do physical work rather than just push paper. But after these people commute back and forth on crowded subways, pick up the trash, mop the hospital floors, stock the grocery shelves... you want them to stay home and isolate for their few hours off so that you can feel a tiny bit safer when they deliver the food you are too scared to go in person to purchase, pick up your germ filled trash, or plow the streets so you can get to the hospital in case of an emergency. Please. So tired of the this attitude. People like you were only able to "isolate" in comfort because the anti-lockdown, anti-Fauci crowd kept showing up. And surprise - most of those people are not stressed about getting the vaccine. Many already had corona. The people I know that have lied to cut the vaccine line are like you - fearful lefties hanging on Fauci's every word.The people who are out and about are not the ones wringing their hands desperate for the vaccine. That doesn't mean they won't take the vaccine when available, most probably will. Just willing to let the most fearful go first. Shame rather than appreciate that you look down on them.
Gee, Social Credits! Just like the CCP! How Progressive!
"Papers please." I've traveled fairly extensively and to some sketchy countries. No shot record required (except when I was in the military). What else about my health and medical history would you like to know? Because other intrusions will follow, as sure as night follows day.
I've been vaccinated and have my record laminated as I expect to be asked for it. To date, no one has.
On the other hand, as one of the commenters stated, we do require vaccination records for some employment and for some infectious diseases that are much more virulent and deadly than COVID (he cites meningitis vaccine for college students). I get those requirements but this one seems overly broad and a response to government fear-mongering.
Maybe those who aren't vaccinated could wear a little badge -- you know, maybe a little scarlet letter or a yellow star or something.
Doctorev: “ You can make up any kind of crazy law, the problem is how you'll enforce it.”
You don’t have to. You cannot go to the grocery store; it’s a private company they can what they like. You cannot enter a bank: private company. You cannot get a credit card, lack a vaccine passport disqualifies you: private company. Cannot work in a factory, office, store. Cannot drive a truck or an Uber of a forklift. Cannot attend a game, a movie, a concert. Cannot enter a bar, a restaurant.
Who needs cops?
independent said...
Too bad there isn't some way to put the anti-mask, anti-any business restrictions, anti-Fauci, anti-social-distancing contingent - well represented on this blog -- at the end of the line for vaccines. I don't expect many of them to have the courage of their convictions and voluntarily wait until everyone who followed the rules and guidelines go ahead of them.
Another person who does not know what they are talking about. In my part of Western Wisconsin (Trump over Biden by nearly 2:1 in this county), the local beer distributor, with several hundred employees, wanted to set up a mass vaccination at the workplace. They dropped the plan when 80% of the employees said that they weren't interested.
Blogger independent said...
Too bad there isn't some way to put the anti-mask, anti-any business restrictions, anti-Fauci, anti-social-distancing contingent - well represented on this blog -- at the end of the line for vaccines.
At least the left is consistent. The power to destroy is always tempting the authoritarian. I am so old that I can recall when the left was for freedom. Even free speech if you can imagine that.
I'd rather be a happy hermit than submit to Big Brother.
Naomi is a nutter. But she's right.
More interesting is, is she a crack in The Consensus? Probably not, but it’s possible.
Big Brother doesn't give you the option to submit or not.
"ADDED: I think Wolf may be an anti-vaxxer, so her warning isn't scary."
I am not aware of any evidence that there are more than two genders, or that people can "have" a gender that differs from their sex. Anyone who believes those things is certainly deluded and likely deranged. On the other hand, there is considerable evidence that the aluminum-based adjuvants used in many vaccines may cause neurological damage in a rather substantial fraction of the population. Something is causing a skyrocketing rate of autistic mental disorders. Aluminum has always been present in the natural environment, but almost entirely in inert form. We did not evolve in the presence of chemically active aluminum, and there is no evidence for the assertion that it is harmless. Perhaps instead of reading the bogus notions of the imbeciles who write for all those Commie lie-rags you subscribe to, you should try to learn something useful, or if not useful, at least true. You can start by watching this rather well-made documentary; The Age Of Aluminium.
When they realize the vaccine passports are analogous to a voter ID, and just as dis-enfranchising.
They were never interested in freedom, except to destroy the institutions from eithin
We did NOT stop visiting our children/grandchildren.
Big Brother doesn't give you the option to submit or not.
Then I'll be a Christian martyr.
Unknown said...
Why waste time paying attention to Washington post commentators? They are hacks and trolls. They make ny times commentators look like geniuses in comparison.
3/29/21, 7:22 AM
Unfortunately there are enough of them that they would have no problem with throwing you in the oven. They want control over everyone's lives to force them to fit their world view (as untenable as it may be).
As loki put it 'what does a boot care about the ant'
It doesnt matter who you are
https://computingforever.com/2021/03/22/why-the-lockdowns-are-being-continuously-extended/
Not wearing masks when required is not free speech.
stlcdr said...
Unfortunately there are enough of them that they would have no problem with throwing you in the oven. They want control over everyone's lives to force them to fit their world view (as untenable as it may be).
After I shoot the first 20, I bet the rest won't be so eager
Michael K said
"I can recall when the left was for freedom. Even free speech if you can imagine that."
I believe that was back when they were still actual "liberals", in the true sense of defending every citizens freedom to think. In my lifetime, I saw that "liberalism" get befouled - slowly at first, and now fast -- as the communal authoritarianists anchored themselves in excellent guard towers like universities.
Glenn Reynolds once wrote: "Leftism always leads in the direction of Pol Pot."
A good metric.
I don't understand. Why should the vaccinated ones be so concerned about the unvaccinated? Isn't the purported reason for the vaccine to confer immunity?
PS: I actually DO understand, of course.
Alameda County 7 day positivity rate is now down to 0.4%.
Oakland unified teachers (vaccinated) refuse to work.
Too bad there isn't some way to put the anti-mask, anti-any business restrictions, anti-Fauci, anti-social-distancing contingent - well represented on this blog -- at the end of the line for vaccines. I don't expect many of them to have the courage of their convictions and voluntarily wait until everyone who followed the rules and guidelines go ahead of them.
Hey genius: plenty of such people have no intention of taking the vaccine, but still good job on the sIcK bUrn attempt. Also, properly run states have plenty of vaccine availability-my own state has zero age or condition restrictions as of this morning. There is no end of the line, idiot.
mockturtle said...
I don't understand. Why should the vaccinated ones be so concerned about the unvaccinated? Isn't the purported reason for the vaccine to confer immunity?
This was bought and paid for when they said your mask doesn't protect you, it protects me. It removes personal choice, and makes you responsible for everyone else's "safety".
People bought it hook, line, and sinker.
One unvaccinated person threatens the safety of the entire collective.
Being labeled an 'anti-vaxxer' does not erode your opinion on the insidiousness of vaccine passports. I know their are anti-vaxxers who are extreme, but it is is possible to be skeptical of vaccines or to make educated opinions on a vaccine by vaccine basis. We are skeptics ourselves and have saved the standard childhood vaccine regimen for our 2nd and 3rd kids until they are older. Our first born had ALL the vaccines as a baby and he has chronic seizures, autism and significant learning disabilities where he will never be truly self sufficient. I'm not saying one DEFINATELY caused the other (but chronic seizures are listed as possible side effect of the MMR vaccine) but I think everyone has the right to make personal decisions on a case by case basis. Just because something is labeled as a 'vaccine' vs. a treatment doesn't mean its a true cure that 100% never has any bad side effects. People can weigh those things. We choose not to vaccinate our kids until they are more grown and/or the disease in question is fatal only in very rare cases and we will just tag along with herd immunity (i.e. chicken pox, mumps, measles etc).
But we are getting the COVID vaccine because of simple pragmatic risk/reward considerations (My wife, myself and our son who qualifies for his neurological problems have all had shot #1). We still remain vaccine skeptics and will are argue passionately that people and parents should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.
A vaccine passport is fascism straight up. That shouldn't be a Trumper issue.
Exit note: I wonder if this commenter would be quite so rude if the focus groups included the myriad of African Americans equally as skeptical of THIS vaccine as the Trumpers.
It's why I have a flip phone.
Call and text and fuck the rest.
independent said...
Not wearing masks when required is not free speech.
I'm sorry, but if "nude dancing" is "free speech", as ruled by the US Supreme Court, then walking with a "nude" face must be free speech.
Esp. since the 2nd is far more likely to be a political statement than the 1st.
You clearly need to brush up on your Supreme Court precedents
I trust nothing from the WaPoo.
Browndog said...
One unvaccinated person threatens the safety of the entire collective.
Not if the vaccine works.
If the vaccine works (I believe it does, which is why I've got my 1st shot and will get my 2nd one soon) then your lack of vaccination status is irrelevant to me.
Unless I'm just a thug who gets off on telling other people what to do
independent said...
Not wearing masks when required is not free speech.
Yea, I saw that too. In teeny tiney print at the bottom of The Bill of Rights-
*Only applicable if wearing a mask when required
Thurber reports being endlessly amused by French stories of the American Far West, where things often go slightly wrong:
“There were, in my lost and lamented collection, a hundred other fine things, which I have forgotten, but there is one that will forever remain with me. It occurred in a book in which, as I remember it, Billy the Kid, alias Billy the Boy, was the central figure. At any rate, two strangers had turned up in a small Western town and their actions had aroused the suspicions of a group of respectable citizens, who forthwith called on the sheriff to complain about the newcomers. The sheriff listened gravely for a while, got up and buckled on his gun belt, and said: “Alors, je vais demander ses cartes d’identité!’ There are few things, in any literature, that have given me a greater thrill than running across that line.”
The joke being that Americans having a European identity card was such a vast French misunderstanding of Americans that it was funny.
"I don't understand. Why should the vaccinated ones be so concerned about the unvaccinated? Isn't the purported reason for the vaccine to confer immunity?"
You're right. You don't understand. Just like you didn't understand that mRNA vaccines don't change your DNA.
First of all, it has not yet been proven that the vaccine is safe for everyone, including infants. They don't get one. Second, it isn't 100% effective. Third, the protection from the vaccine may be relatively short-lived and hence the goal is to get control of the virus - and minimize dangerous mutations - during that limited time period. That can only happen if a substantial majority get vaccinated. I'm sure there are other reasons.
But hey, I understand that a little prick in your arm may cause an owie.
"independent said...
Not wearing masks when required is not free speech."
You know what I would love to see?
The "face-covering" people make their case in the legislature in a public debate where reps represent the citizens and not the people who have been wrong about everything.
Then maybe the courts could step in and decide if mandatory face covering passed strict scrutiny as public health measure and not just idiots in lab coats making things up as they go along.
I wrote it in a comment last night- if we actually get government mandated vaccine passports, there will be immediate exemptions issued for any disparately impacted ethnic minority. The only people who would not get an exemption would be white people and possibly east Asians.
These are dangerous ideas, vaccine passports, because there would then be no limit to what other things you have to prove in order to live an ordinary life. We would end up struggling futilely trying to not slide down a very slippery slope after that.
independent said...You're right. You don't understand.
In addition to your list, there is another concern--variants. The more virus is out there, the more variants we get. The more variants we get, the more likely one of them is to be immune to the current vaccines. Once that happens, we reset the clock and start over again.
Post a Comment