A new piece from Glenn Greenwald.
ADDED: I wrote this post on my iPad and let it sit for nearly 12 hours before noticing I'd written "Greenwood" for "Greenwald." I'm really sorry! I was done blogging for the day but wanted to get this last thing up, and I have a harder time seeing on the iPad, and then there's the autocorrection. In any event, "wald" means "woods," so it almost seems like a translation, like calling me "Oldhouse." Again, I'm sorry! I thought it was a good article, and I appreciate what Glenn has been doing lately, which is insisting on honesty from the press. Excerpt:The key point to emphasize here is that threats and dangers are not binary: [it's not that] they either exist or they are fully illusory. They reside on a spectrum. To insist that they be discussed rationally, soberly and truthfully is not to deny the existence of the threat itself. One can demand a rational and fact-based understanding of the magnitude of the threat revealed by the January 6 riot without denying that there is any danger at all.
Note the word "riot." It was a riot — not a coup or an insurrection.
Perhaps the most significant blow to the maximalist insurrection/coup narrative took place inside the Senate on Thursday. Ever since January 6, those who were not referring to the riot as a “coup attempt” — as though the hundreds of protesters intended to overthrow the most powerful and militarized government in history — were required to refer to it instead as an “armed insurrection.” This formulation was crucial not only for maximizing fear levels about the Democrats’ adversaries but also, as I’ve documented previously, because declaring an “armed insurrection” empowers the state with virtually unlimited powers to act against the citizenry. Over and over, leading Democrats and their media allies repeated this phrase like some hypnotic mantra...
पोस्ट्स
२५१ टिप्पण्या:
251 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»That is called a guilty conscience talking. Talking loudly.
Glenn is right. And any look at the tape, not to mention the police who acknowledged simply letting demonstrators walk in, showed how harmless an event it was.
It's a fiction. Glenn nails it. That there are pissed off people and they are talking about changing the government is not a new thing. Imagine if Trump had put up 12' razor wire topped fencing around Washington DC and manned it with 15,000 national guard troops, you would have been reading non-stop about the end of America and the arrival of FACISM.
This is fiction in search of a reality.
Glenn is right, of course, but this whole bullshit narrative that the Democrats and their faithful scribes in the media have pushed just makes me so sick for America I can’t even read about it.
I used to think that Germans probably rolled their eyes at Nazi propaganda, buy when I am in the gym and I see people lapping up CNN, I realize that they probably loved it. As I have said before, the think that Orwell got wrong about Winston Smith is that he never thought that the people operating the memory hole would love their jobs. That’s the power of propaganda.
Who is Glenn Greenwood?
Greenwald is still expecting them to be reasonable, if he can just shame them into it. I imagine he has some decent, reasonable liberals who can do that, which fools him into think that that the journalistic and activist class are the same, especially if they are pleasant and witty. But those latter are not especially nice or reasonable people. they use words instrumentally, not for meaning. If insurrection is a more powerful and hurtful word, it will not be abandoned just for the silly reason that it is not accurate.
The nice and reasonably people are, unfortunately, rather weak of character and beholden to the idea that they have to stay attached to the Good People. To leave them is to be cast into the abyss.
I just described a solid portion of my extended family on the Swedish side. Nice People, except a few are vicious.
Those Guardsmen are surefire ace-in-the-hole Democrat voters, ain't they? Why, come next election season they'll be canvassing their hometown streets carrying portraits of Nancy 'n Joe singing the Internationale. Doncha think?
It's becoming painfully obvious that there are some really sick people in charge at the highest levels of the federal government right now.
Is the narrative crumbling?
I know a lot of people who still believe all the crumbled narratives, from Hanging Chads to Russian Collusion. I can't see any reason that the Insurrection narrative would be any different.
This nonsense is a fiction that is being used because the Democratic Party knows, as no one else can be absolutely certain, that their government is fraudulent. That is why Trump could win all the bellwether counties, and by double-digits, but somehow lose. That is how Trump could outdraw all the Republican House of Representative votes, but still lose -- still lose even though the Republican congressmen won all their contested races.
The Democrats are sitting on a falsely "elected" government and they believe that the opposition is ready to take radical action. As perhaps they should be, but instead are law-abiding with faith that in the USA the cause of justice will ultimately prevail.
Will it?
Greenwod?
"t's becoming painfully obvious that there are some really sick people in charge”
Holding back the vaccine while thousands were dying every day was a new level of sick to me. Not using the hospital ship Trump sent to NYC because Trump sent it while sending COVID patients into nursing homes and getting showered with praise, while the press dumps on DeSantis who has done a very good job, for political reasons is another.
And all the while, the DrudgeReport which was made for stories like these runs state propaganda all of the time, after Drudge got bought out by the people who own the Democrat Party lock stock and barrels.
More fever dreams from Pelosi. Somebody has been spiking the old girl's evening cocktail with LSD.
There was violent crime registered that day in Washington D.C. but none of it was political violence by those whom media outlets warned posed such a grave danger that Congress has to be closed and militarization of Washington extended indefinitely.
Who, not whom. Journalists are idiots.
greenwald
Eric Swalwell has filed a lawsuit against Donald Trump over his severe emotional distress.
We must sympathize. Those Depends don't pay for themselves.
PS
I was looking into the former Impeachment Manager's genealogy. The surname has an interesting history. It's a portmanteau of swallow well! the street cry of the 15th century Lambeth guild of catamites. I have no idea what that means.
Eric "I slept with an Chinese spy" Swalwell is suing Trump for emotional distress related to 6 Jan. Democrats are nothing but adulterers without Trump.
The Democrats are using it baldfaced to shut up their opposition. Same as the Nazis used the Reichstag Fire.
YouTube’s CEO said the video sharing platform will lift its suspension of former President Donald Trump’s account once the company determines “the risk of violence has decreased.”
Which will be when exactly?
It’s amazing how little coverage it got that one of the impeachment managers who sits on the Intelligence Committee was caught sleeping with a Chinese spy. And since the Democrat scribes at the New York Times and Washington Post, CNN and MSNBC won’t say it out loud, the trolls here believe it never happened, that it must just be something right wingers are making up.
QAnon again. Please inform me who is the leader of QAnon. Please tell me what buildings have been destroyed by QAnon, how many members they have, and how many riots they've started. Tell me what QAnon believes in and point me to their manifesto.
Because I can't find that data anywhere.
All I find is Leftist/liberals telling me there's something called QAnon and some people believe it. That's it.
THis whole Jan 6th "insurrection" and "Domestic terrorism" is just Trump-Russia collusion all over again. The same MSM making up things. The same use of anonymous sources. The same "we can't give the details - its under investigation" And the same FBI telling us its all "Classified" and "can't say anything except behind closed doors".
Its all bullshit.
Here's my suggestion. Lets have a Jan 6th commission headed by james Comey and Robert Mueller.
Patrick J. Buchanan: Who Really Imperils The Republic?
https://vdare.com/articles/patrick-j-buchanan-who-really-imperils-the-republic?scroll_to_paragraph=11
John McCain lied in 2017 and told us that "Its going to be worse then watergate" "More shoes are going drop than a centipede has legs". And McCain knew that was ALL A LIE.
Pelosi/Schumer/McConnell/McCarthy all know this "domestic terrorism" is a LIE.
And to repeat. We have 5,000 NG troops in DC. If that's not enough for Pelosi to feel "safe" - then she's never going to feel "safe" and the NG troops should come hone.
Please inform me who is the leader of QAnon
Candace Owens now calls it BlueAnon. The left has taken over and are now pumping out weirdness in its name.
From a commenter on the article "This is what happens when the demand for insurrection exceeds the supply"
Ha!
Greenwald is a good leftist who believes in telling the truth in certain matters. IOW, he believes in being consistent. He's consistency has fought against censorship and the abuse of National Security surveillance. IOW, he's not a liar and hypocrite.
Already, the hive is after him and whispering he's a "Counter-revolutionary" and "isn't it odd he's in Brazil"
"I used to think that Germans probably rolled their eyes at Nazi propaganda, buy when I am in the gym and I see people lapping up CNN, I realize that they probably loved it."
Really? Really?
Have you never seen the news clips of hordes of German citizens shouting in passionate adoration of Der Fuhrer? Do you think the Germans were unaware of the concentration camps? Of the disappearance of Jewish citizens?
The Germans adored Adolf; they were not suffering in terror under the heel of a cruel tyrant, (unless they were Jews, homosexuals, or undesirables of several other kinds), they gloried in their great leader who was bringing greatness to their land.
"they gloried in their great leader who was bringing greatness to their land.”
It wasn’t Trump using these kinds of Nazi propaganda tricks to consolidate power. It’s the Democrats.
Trump never advocated for shutting down the voices of his political opponents. He criticized them, but that’s different. It’t the Democrats using Nazi techniques who are shutting down the voices of their opposition.
There's hope for Congressional fears yet! Iranian militias claim to have cells in Washington DC! Congress could stay out indefinitely! They've done enough damage for one year, already, and it's only March!
@ Roberto el Militante: Stalin topped Hitler as regards narratives and true believers. I don't think anyone at Auschwitz was singing Hitler's praises and thinking that if only Hitler knew about this injustice, he would straighten things out. At the work camps, I don't think anyone cried when they heard of Hitler's death.....It's much easier to ship horseshit by the shipload when the artists and intellectuals are bending their creativity and smarts to the task......Bourgeoisie intellectuals are terrifically good at the production, shipment and packaging of horseshit. It wasn't so long ago that Jefferson, Jackson, and Wilson. We now know how wrong we were. This insurrection is light lifting compared to the way they have subverted the builders of the platform upon which they stand.
...they gloried in their great leader who was bringing greatness to their land.
Just like they gloried in their great leader, Obama.
Thanks, Robert Cook, we knew you had it in you to show us all the truth.
Democrats are promoting these right-wing insurrections to deflect away from the dishonest November election. They know it was dishonest and they're afraid definitive evidence will emerge that blows the whole thing up in their faces. HR-1 is an attempt to cement their power with perpetual dishonest elections. I reamed-out my Representative, Adam Smith (WA-9), for his yes-vote on this bill.
Tonight's secret word is "Open Shesame!"
Blogger Wince said...
It's becoming painfully obvious that there are some really sick people in charge at the highest levels of the federal government right now.
Yes, but the people behind them, who are really running things, are cold eyed realists who have made billions from this bullshit and will not allow any changes unless they are "Taken Out," which will not be easy. I don't know all the names but the people who are funding Black Lives Matter would be a good start.
Here are a few.
NBC’s resident millennial hall monitor
What a wonderful turn of phrase!
Greenwald (really, you should fix that, Althouse) and Taibbibi are two lefties that, though I generally think they're wrong on most of their policy preferences, they're at least intellectually honest and capable of rational discussion.
Rare birds in today's environment.
"We must sympathize. Those Depends don't pay for themselves."
I thought the Chi-Coms were financing Swallwell's lower-body requirements.
"Democrats are promoting these right-wing insurrections to deflect away from the dishonest November election."
Though I lean towards Shenanigans Occurred regarding the elections, I've been skeptical of drawing any firm conclusions.
But I gotta tell ya, all of this crap since then is really pushing me in the direction of drawing some pretty fucking rock solid conclusions.
My NPR station keeps using the expression "deadly insurrection". Aside from Ashli Babbett who was a Trump-ist and was shot by cops un-named, and Brian Sicknick who seems to have died of a stroke unrelated to the events of 6 January, the only deaths reported are of two -- also un-named -- capitol cops said to have committed suicide.
Epstein didn't kill himself. Vince Foster is a maybe. About those cops... Spin me a plausible narrative, please, about what a mob of clowns pushing into an office building would do or say or show to some professional law enforcement officers that would lead to those officers being overcome with depression, guilt, shame or other suicidal ideations. What connection is there between the capitol mob and those suicides? I stipulate that there WERE such deaths, though names would be useful. But how do we get back from suicide to "deadly acts" of a mob?
Ever hear of the Roman Praetorian Guard. Protected whatever Caesar was in power.
So the Democrats want a 'Loyal' guard... and they tried vetting the NG to see if they could have a permanent guard. Not the police but a military unit. They will keep up the fiction while they:
A) Institute a national 'mail in vote' system that is easy to defraud IF you have the USPS in your pocket to do the swapping of the votes. And the USPS unions ARE loyal to the Democrats!
B) If SCOTUS tries to interfere they will push for legislation to expand SCOTUS membership. Yes Court Packing.
C) Flood the US with illegals and give them 'citizenship' so they will vote Democrat.
D) Then if there is any kind of riot... claim it's a coup and shut down America via Billionaire Technocrats shutting out any speech except 'approved' speech.
E) The Democrat Praetorian Guard will make sure they are safe while all this is going on.
Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite! The Nanny state is here and you voted them in!
"Our elections were the most secure and fair in history."
"The capitol is under imminent threat from Right Wing Extremists."
Said by the same people.
Donald Trump is reviled by Democrats because he is an apostate, being a former Democrat. That conversion away from the True Party can never be forgiven. He must be purged, his image erased and any memory of him thrown down the memory hole. That's the only way that the True Party can be safe and rule forever.
"It’t the Democrats using Nazi techniques who are shutting down the voices of their opposition."
As the current meme goes, when was the last time the people doing the censoring were the good guys?
Speaking of NPR and in case you doubt me that they are using Nazi tactics to shut down opposition voices.
Leighton Akira Woodhouse@lwoodhouse
Just heard a "disinformation reporter" on NPR report that the "crisis" could take 50 years to resolve, and require a "total redesign" of the internet because "information moves too freely."
I thought the Chi-Coms were financing Swallwell's lower-body requirements.
Spies with "benefits". And for Biden's son: underage delegates with "benefits".
“Information moves too freely” is Chavez speak for “people are pointing out flaws in our talking points.”
They have every intention of shutting down blogs like this.
Have you never seen the news clips of hordes of German citizens shouting in passionate adoration of Der Fuhrer?
@Cookie, any idea what happened to people who failed to express passionate adoration for der Führer? Probably about the same fate as awaited Cubans who didn’t express passionate adoration for Fidel Castro.
"Democrats are promoting these right-wing insurrections"
They are not "PROMOTING" them. They're MAKING THEM UP.
I see the plan. Its to derail the discussion into "Lets talk about nazis".
Clever.
An excellent article.
Scott Adams pointed out something about Rep. Swalwell that is worth considering...
That Swalwell probably actually believed the crazy shit about Trump in the Steele dossier. He wasn’t lying.
The reason was Swalwell’s Chinese honey pot was probably feeding him what he considered insider information, sweetened up with that special fish sauce.
I think that, likewise, the Democrats believe their own propaganda about an impending insurrection.
This is paranoid guilt. They torched all our major cities in 2020. They’re afraid the other side will ultimately take up their tactics.
Wouldn’t you be?
An insurrection through projection, with one confirmed casualty of an unarmed woman. All because a conniving congress did not provide crowd control, a mayor denied federal assistance, and press/media/social/steering platforms (the "Fourth Estate") profit from stoking diversity dogma, not limited to racism, that breeds adversity. A corporate cabal that aligned with public servants to bolster (or whatever their semantics) the vote. A web site that helpfully links between Antifa and their fascist conspirators. This will not be buried in a black hole... whore h/t NAACP.
Can they abort the baby, cannibalize her profitable parts, sequester her carbon pollutants, and have her, too? Forward! and don't spare the child.
Seriously, this whole thing has caused me to lose faith not only in the Liberal/Left, but the DC Republicans. This entire episode since jan 6th has been insanely fake and false. Its like living in the USSR. We're told X by the official Media, and it bears no relationship to the real truth.
If you'd told me the Democrats would steal the election, the Republicans would go along with it, and that some rioters occupying the Capital would be called "Insurrectionists" and this would result in 25,000 troops, an unattended inaugural, and Trump's impeachment. I never would've believed it. Never. OR that all the liberal/left that spent 20 years talking about Civil liberties and "Authoritarianism" would turn on a dime and support the exact opposite.
And no one except me, finds it bizarre, crazy, and scary.
"And no one except me, finds it bizarre, crazy, and scary."
You're not the only one. Probably.
And no one except me, finds it bizarre, crazy, and scary.
You’re not alone.
The Democratic Party is owned by the CCP.
We’re an occupied country.
"Its to derail the discussion into 'Lets talk about nazis’.”
If you don’t know history, you will just let them ram it down your throat again.
On February 27, 1933, the German parliament (Reichstag) building burned down. The Nazi leadership and its coalition partners used the fire to claim that Communists were planning a violent uprising. They claimed that emergency legislation was needed to prevent this. The resulting act, commonly known as the Reichstag Fire Decree, abolished a number of constitutional protections and paved the way for Nazi dictatorship.
It’s their plan. They are talking about changing the internet so that they can choke off all communications they don’t control. Well, to be honest, that sounds like China talking, but they are still using the Nazi’s propaganda technigues. You can’t understand what is going on without understanding how the Nazis did the same thing Pelosi is doing.
Shouldn't it be Glenn Greenbone?
"That Swalwell probably actually believed the crazy shit about Trump in the Steele dossier. He wasn’t lying."
Maybe also because he's an unadulterated moron. I'm not even sure how he dresses himself in the morning.
Btw, where are all the lefties on this thread defending the razor wire and National Guard?
The "Final Solution" was planned at a top secret conference outside of Berlin. All notes and records from the conference were supposed to have been destroyed but one copy survived and was the basis for a movie called Conspiracy. Great movie. Very chilling. The Nazis didn't want what they were doing to get out. So, no the average German didn't know about the death camps, just about the "work" camps where the hated Jews were made to reject their sins against the Fatherland.
"If you don’t know history, you will just let them ram it down your throat again."
See Mike of Snoqalmie comment on the final solution. Nothing to do with 2021. Pure derailment. Clever.
How is Ga Ga's dog-sitter doing?
"This nonsense is a fiction that is being used because the Democratic Party knows, as no one else can be absolutely certain, that their government is fraudulent."
The wicked flee when no man persueth. Joseph Pelosi says "How many divisions has the Quannon?" Bill Clinton let the Hutu kill the Tutsi but later said he should have done something, Beiden is A OK with the Chinese killing Uighurs, that's just Chinese culture. I think the name should be either Greenwood or Grünwald, or perhaps Grünholz.
Greenwald is doing journalism among a mob of political party operatives pretending to be journalists. Andy Ngo is another. How long before we hear the cancel cacophony?
“As the Insurrection Narrative Crumbles"
Except that, like the Russia collusion narrative, it had no substance to begin with.
Like all prog propaganda, it was BS from the outset. The key point is not that it was BS, that we take for granted, but that progs and their minions got enough media and enough people to buy into it. It's not the lie but the submission to it, the absorption of it, that matters. They want a country of Havelian greengrocers. They are close to succeeding.
If you want to test the credentials of Qanon just go visit a GAB Qanon group and type that "Q is a lefty psyop" Kills two birds with one stone. Efficient.
Hi Althouse.
His name is Glenn Greenwald. I think your tag is wrong, too. I think you better get it right because you are going to be quoting him a lot more over the next four years. He is a good writer and an honest man.
"Pure derailment.”
Sorry no it’s not. The Nazi’s consolidated power by exaggerating the threat hugely from the Reichstag Fire, and used the narrative they created by it to shut down opposition rights to freedom of assembly and their voices in the press. If you don’t think that is the exact same thing that is happening here, I don’t think your eyes are open. I am sorry if examples of what the Democrats are doing now don’t come from happy and free countries.
"Btw, where are all the lefties on this thread defending the razor wire and National Guard?"
They'll be along at any moment, shouting about squirrels.
I knew this was coming: Chinese premier vows to push for 'peaceful unification' with Taiwan
Just as Hitler wanted 'peaceful unification' with Czechoslovakia, Poland, France and others. [If you don't resist, the unification will be peaceful].
Maybe also because he's an unadulterated moron
Well, Swalwell is a lawyer
"Seriously, this whole thing has caused me to lose faith not only in the Liberal/Left, but the DC Republicans."
I was freed of any faith in DC Republicans since before Trump's first year was up.
"I knew this was coming:..."
Not sure what they waited for. If I were Xi I would have ordered the invasion of Taiwan 1 second after Biden's swearing in.
It's the smart play...
I have no idea how this ends.
Howard thinks normals are fat and lazy. No, mostly we are peaceful, not likely to strike first. The Japanese and nGermans thought the same.
The Wannsee Conference referenced by Mike of S. was indeed meant to be secret, but the system of camps and subcamps with enslaved and abused people in every nook and cranny of the Turd Reich, and the widespread soldier talk about atrocities make it hard for me to believe that most adult Germans didn't know plenty--and many wouldn't have cared if they did know.
That said, we can't know from film how adoring Germans were of Hitler after about 1942, since he made no public appearances after the defeats started piling up.
He hunkered down in heavily-defended government complexes, surrounded by barbed wire, when not at the vacay home. However much that says about La Pelosi et. al. what strikes me is that DC is taking on the aspect and appearance of our zones in Baghdad or Kabul-- and THAT
speaks to the attitude of Our Leaders towards opposition: when you are a crooked coward to your bones, a domestic opponent is the same as a foreign terrorist, and the same tactics must be used to defeat them.
US citizens with grievances will be no safer and have no more rights than hapless Afghans or Iraqis, and it won't take long either.
Narr
Buckle up!
Talked w/a friend must be before the election and he asked: what would Trump have to do for u not to support him? I jokingly said- “he could walk out in the middle of 5th Avenue and I would still vote for him!” Lol. He asks me- what does that even mean- why is that funny? I couldn’t explain.
So, I’ve thought about it, since. And I’ve decided, it’s because we knew Trump would never do such a thing- and Trump knew we knew he’d never do such a thing. We trusted him in doing the right thing always in the best interest of our Country. An inside joke. No matter how it’s explained, one either gets the joke, or doesn’t. No stuck up dem will ever get the banter and humor that went on in the Trump support. Well, I think Ann kinda got it. That’s cool.
Now, we’ve got all this chaos which is some serious shit. Out in the open. I’m not saying a word to my dem friends about it. It’s like a quiet background noise- and when the shit hits the fan, well- I hope they all get a mouthful.
Re: tim in vermont:
Not using the hospital ship Trump sent to NYC because Trump sent it while sending COVID patients into nursing homes and getting showered with praise
This is what really appalls me about Cuomo's malfeasance. It wasn't like New York was facing a capacity crunch in terms of beds at that point. They were even doing okay on medical staff thanks to the volunteers from all over the country (although they did have significant and continuing shortages of PPE for said medical staff throughout the spring surge). It wasn't just the hospital ship that was rushed up and then sat empty. New York converted the Javits Centre into a field hospital with 2,500 beds, but then . . . never used it.
Fuckups like dithering over whether to issue a stay at home order in early March are easy to criticise in retrospect, but Cuomo was getting crap advice from both the CDC and his own state health experts, so it's understandable. Even the nursing homes order is understandable at the outset -- it largely tracks the advice our terrible, terrible public health bureaucrats in the federal government (CDC and CMS) were giving. But so many states had the common sense to ignore that advice. And not just Republican states. California adopted a similar order, but Newsom had the human decency to listen when there was a public outcry, and cut back the order in a matter of days. Cuomo just blew it off.
tim in vermont said...
Glenn is right, of course, but this whole bullshit narrative that the Democrats and their faithful scribes in the media have pushed just makes me so sick for America I can’t even read about it.
I pretty much just peruse the headlines these days and cherry pick articles that seem interesting by a semi-honest writer. Most of the obvious bullshit comes from there Left, but they are not the exclusive purveyors.
The propaganda is too painfully obvious and I am not a good German in the 1930's. Hell, I am not even a good 2020 Democrat authoritarian like some of our recent trolls.
Blogger rcocean said...
And no one except me, finds it bizarre, crazy, and scary.
That is the only false thing in your statement. There is at least one other person, me.
And probably a Hell of a lot more besides the two of us.
But they will need to speak for themselves. If they can. Too many people are in positions where they can lose their livlihoods if they do. I wish it were not so but this is the state we have gotten ourselves into.
I wish they would speak up but can fully understand and not blame them if they feel they cannot.
John Henry
"Not sure what they waited for. If I were Xi I would have ordered the invasion of Taiwan 1 second after Biden's swearing in."
Xi is just a good poker player, he is waiting for the pot to grow under Beiden. He can get Taiwan in a couple of years under Harris. The conquest of Taiwan could result in China loosing the Walmart account, so Xi doesn't want to piss off the bureaucrats of the department of plastic shit production, their kids just paid a lot of Yuan to get into Harvard. The best thing Taiwan could do is wire all their factories for demolition and light the fuse when the Chicom army establishes supply on the beachead. Let them expend their stockpile of weapons and get a low IRR on the fruits of rapine.
Rcocean @7:53 PM. I also agree with you. [Where would you get the idea you were the lone ranger here?] What it amounts to is a totalitarian takeover at warp speed. They own the government and can seemingly do whatever they like. But there are large areas of resistance--not armed insurrection but resistance. It's hard for those of us whose state has been the victim of the voter fraud and turned blue overnight. Literally, overnight. :-( But I will move if I have to.
Yes indeed
https://technofog.substack.com/p/power-and-political-investigations
Interesting scenario, Josephbleu! A Swiss approach to invasion is a real challenge to both sides. Totally agree on the plastic shit class and Xi-Man.
What do they say, "Americans play Poker, Russians play Chess, but the Chinese play Go"?-- a long-term strategy game par excellance.
Since it's Friday, and I mentioned a history book by Brands (which I have not read--just saw him on CSpan), and I know some of the history-minded are about, here's something that intrigues me about our framing(s) of the past in Right-Left terms.
Frequently, when I mention a figure, event, or era, and an author I might have read or be interested in, I'm cautioned by well-meaning commenters about some political slant to be on the lookout for. That's good advice generically and BION, boilerplate SOP in history grad school.
Just to confine the question to something pretty well known, what is "the" Left or Liberal interpretation, and what is "the" Right or Conservative interpretation of the ACWABAWS?
What makes them so?
Narr
Prof means Glenn Gruenwood, obviously
Greenwald, and many commenters here, are missing the big picture. In my neighborhood, in DC, in my state capitol, and elsewhere, we are overwhelmed with individuals wearing the uniforms of right-wing extremism -- namely dark socks (black or navy blue). Next time you are out in Madison, WI, (or your other local state capitol), BE ON THE LOOK OUT for dark socks -- they are everywhere!
h,
You were sworn to secrecy.
The "Glenn Greenwood" tag still isn't fixed.
BE ON THE LOOK OUT for dark socks -- they are everywhere!
Socks of Black. Especially when worn by People of White.
@Quaestor, picky picky.
Attending the Capitol City protest in January, for a redress of grievance at the massive voter fraud that took place, young people from my State thought that was what Democracy looked like.
I begged them not to take iDiot phones with them. I begged them not to take selfies.
In their naivete they thought they could protest at the Capitol. The Peoples' House. They thought that was what Democracy looked like. They saw the leftists occupy the Capitol's rotunda in 2018 to protest. They grew up with Code Pink breaching Senate Hearing rooms when McChimpy Hitler Bush was President.
They watched Antifa/BLM all summer long take over Police Precincts, and set fire to Federal Bldgs.
They didn't want to set fire to anything. They believed in America. They believed in the Constitution. They believed you can petition your Government for a redress of grievance. They're young.
They wanted to protest the massive fraud in the 2020 election. They thought that was OK.
The FBI has been hunting people down. The same FBI that tried to overthrow a duly elected President 4 years ago.
Kids. Being hunted down for doing less than Antifa/BLM did all summer.
Anyway, whenever I got in trouble, I always represented myself. I relished it. I'm a gambler. I threw the dice.
These Kids deserve better. I don't know how to get a lawyer for these kids.
Anyway. Lotta lawyers on this blog. Any ideas?
"The "Glenn Greenwood" tag still isn't fixed."
Yes, I hope that means that our hostesses are engaged in something other than the ethno gradient of the Principle components representing the eigenvalues of the matrix of the stochastic Nelder Mede decent of the sample space of Madison Wisconsin plywood window art, and are taking the night off.
"Any ideas?"
Not for these kids, but for anyone planning to attend anything remotely worthy of investigation or cancellation, such as political events, gun stores, church, your mistress's apt, etc, keep the phone off. (I assume that works. If not leave it home.)
"BE ON THE LOOK OUT for dark socks -- they are everywhere!"
I warned them not to let h join up. I told them he couldn't be trusted and would break the first and second rules of Dark Sock Club.
That is weird that Althouse misidentifed the writer. I know for a fact that she has a Glenn Greenwald tag, and she must have made the tag for "Greenwood" tonight because it is the only entry under that tag.
Can't see the forest for the wood.
I am looking forward to the FBI showing to the public the QAnon message that was posted on the Internet and that said Trump would be inaugurated on March 4.
The Dark Sock Web.
Blame it on autocucumber, the link makes its clear.
Hawaiian shirt, sandals, dark socks, shorts, concealed carry.
"Blame it on autocucumber, the link makes its clear."
I was told to blame it on the Bossanova. I don't know what that is really, but assume it is like a waltzing orgy.
The damn thing is, I bought a lot of nice silk Hawaiian shirts in the Royal Hawaiian shops and now I can't wear them.
"I am looking forward to the FBI showing to the public the QAnon message that was posted on the Internet and that said Trump would be inaugurated on March 4."
According to "Dave" who spoke to an MSNBC informant, March 4 was a false flag, and the real insurrection will occur March 20. I'm not making this up.
Thats my malaprop for autocorrect, the way one can easily make a mistake.
It's easier to believe one's line of BS than not to believe. Politicians pick up and pass on rumors that make their side look good. Eventually, they start assuming that such rumors are always true, even if they have to invent the rumors themselves.
In the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s as distrust of government grew so did conspiracy theories about the Kennedy assassination. That process stopped and reversed itself around the end of one century and the beginning of the other. The Posner book and then the Bugliosi book dismissing the conspiracy theories, looked thorough and convincing. This is another turning point now. People are ready to believe that the government is capable of doing just about anything -- and it is.
I'll give credit where it is due. I'm sure that those nicely printed 'Biden Please Let Us In" T-shirts worn by the horde invading the southern border were covertly distributed by someone working for us under the guise of someone working for them. I'm glad we still have some wits and ground game about us.
I figure Glenn Greenwood has to be one of these people here.
The funny thing is that if you scroll down a hundred photos or so, you'll see one of Althouse's pictures.
Wald (Ger.)= wood (in the sense of 'forest')
"Wald (Ger.)= wood (in the sense of 'forest')"
Or in Holz, an in lumber or wood products.
Greenwald is right on this. The Capitol is in military lockdown and it looks like it will be for a while. Libs and their elite enablers have made DC tighter than the edge of the DMZ. So bad that even Eleanor Holmes Norton, DC Delegate who ain't exactly conservative, demanded them to take the fence down. Yeah, they won't.
You ain't seen nothin' yet.
I told you: the election has simply started solidifying the former quicksand around their feet. The dog has "caught" the car's bumper. All that. Glenn Greenwald is just saying what I already know and see. Politics is downstream from culture.
And Oprah Winfrey's party can't win.
The mistake was identifying a specific date. They should identify and refer to internet chatter about violent action to take back the Capitol and the government. Make sure to note that Trump is participating under a pseudonym, perhaps identify a few things in his public comments that are coded messages. Then they can lock down DC indefinitely. Big blue state cities could even join in.
Greenwald: The problem you have surrounding the Capitol, I solved it.
Pelosi: No, you didn't.
Greenwald: You didn't even look!
Pelosi: I never said the vector fields were rational functions... your solution is elegant, though ultimately incorrect.
Greenwald is doing journalism among a mob of political party operatives pretending to be journalists
No, he's doing it from foreign soil.
That should tell you something.
Riot? Riots are what has been happening the last five years. I believe they were called protests.
I believe they were called protests. Mostly peaceful protests. That was a protest.
“Have you never seen the news clips of hordes of German citizens shouting in passionate adoration of Der Fuhrer? Do you think the Germans were unaware of the concentration camps? Of the disappearance of Jewish citizens”?
Yeah, because everybody is the exact same. What a maroon.
Any more news about the trigger happy coward who shot Ashli Babbitt? He was sainted by the same people who insist on saying “armed insurrection.”
QAnon is just the new version of the vast right wing conspiracy.
Da Nang Dick Blumenthal made an "armed" trip to Viet Nam didn't he? In his dreams he did.
Sorry, January 6 WAS an attempted coup. It stopped — if only temporarily — a governmental process required by the Constitution to determine the head of state.
Ha! If you do an image search on Glenn Greenwood, you now get a picture of Zeus.
Unknown said...
Sorry, January 6 WAS an attempted coup. It stopped — if only temporarily — a governmental process required by the Constitution to determine the head of state.
Trump supporters were trying to remove Trump from the Presidency?
Browndog said...
Unknown said...
Sorry, January 6 WAS an attempted coup. It stopped — if only temporarily — a governmental process required by the Constitution to determine the head of state.
Trump supporters were trying to remove Trump from the Presidency?
*******************************
Trump supporters were trying to prevent--through violence--the legal counting of votes that would ensure Trump's removal as president. Quit playing games.
I wonder how Unknown distinguishes between firing on Ft Sumpter and throwing bombs into a Federal Courthouse in Seattle, or was it Portland?
What about when Democrats invaded the statehouse in Wisconsin to shut down a governmental process? Good times, good times those.
Why didn’t the Democrats accept the offer of the National Guard Trump made to protect the Capital? Was this some kind of 12 dimensional chess by Trump because he knew that Pelosi would reject the offer so that his nefarious plan could continue?
It’s like how when they gave Hunter Biden’s laptop to the FBI a year before the election that proves it was Russian disinformation.
A coup attempt is an attempt to install a new leader. There was never any remotely plausible plan for success on that point. It was a riot that got out of hand because Pelosi declined security even though there was a huge peaceful demonstration going on, and we all know that if you have thousands and thousands of people, there are goign to be bad apples.
Trump supporters were trying to prevent--through violence--the legal counting of votes that would ensure Trump's removal as president. Quit playing games
Go fuck yourself.
The asshat I was addressing can defend his use of the word "coup" without you chirping.
Oh look, another Antifa rioter at the Capitol. This one was so sneaky he tricked Trump into appointing him to the State Dept before he rioted, just to make Trump look bad. So mean and tricky, Antifa!
State Department aide appointed by Trump stormed the Capitol, beat police with a riot shield, FBI says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/05/trump-federico-klein-capitol-riot/
"Trump supporters were trying to prevent--through violence--the legal counting of votes that would ensure Trump's removal as president.”
What, was there a “call for action” on this post?
The only party that had a plausible plan for success from this riot is the Democrats, who could use it i their propaganda efforts to silence opposition voices and to suspend the right of assembly.
Right now they are still calling it an “armed insurrection” when there were no firearms ever found because that gives them powers under the kind of martial law that Democrats have declared in DC.
This was a riot that got out of hand.
Why did Pelosi reject the offer of National Guard by Trump that would have prevented this?
Glenn can insist on honesty all he wants. It's not going to make a damned bit of difference.
Browndog said...
Go fuck yourself.
The asshat I was addressing can defend his use of the word "coup" without you chirping.
*****************************
Hey kid, are you 8? Did you just learn some new curse words? Giving them a test drive on the 'ole internet today? It's an exciting day for Billy Browndog! Happy Birthday kid, don't get yourself in trouble now.
tim in vermont said...
Why did Pelosi reject the offer of National Guard by Trump that would have prevented this?
******************************
MAGAs are so devoid of restraint or a sense of personal responsibility, they need a National Guard deployment to stop them from storming the Capitol when an election doesn't go their way.
What was the strategy behind this “coup" that was going to install Trump permanently in the presidency?
There was none. It wasn’t a “coup” and certainly not an “insurrection” which kind of implies popular support for violent overthrow of the government, which is non existent.
"I figure Glenn Greenwood has to be one of these people here."
LOL
tim in vermont said...
What was the strategy behind this “coup" that was going to install Trump permanently in the presidency?
There was none. It wasn’t a “coup” and certainly not an “insurrection” which kind of implies popular support for violent overthrow of the government, which is non existent.
**********************************
No one said these people were smart. Dumb, violent, and loathing of democracy was good enough.
"MAGAs are so devoid of restraint or a sense of personal responsibility, they need a National Guard deployment to stop them from storming the Capitol when an election doesn't go their way.”
There are always going to be a few nuts, agents provocateurs. This was a huge crowd, Pelosi made the choice to not to defend the Capitol when offered the support she would have needed. If there had been adequate security, none of this would have happened. Pelosi has benefitted the most from this pretend “coup,” BTW.
"No one said these people were smart. Dumb, violent, and loathing of democracy was good enough.”
Not a “coup," not an “insurrection," a riot.
What is more a sign of a “loathing of democracy” than to not allow observers in the canvassing of votes?
look, it's Simple
When THEY do it....It's a Mostly Peaceful Protest
When WE do it......It's an INSURRECTION!!
tim in vermont said...
"MAGAs are so devoid of restraint or a sense of personal responsibility, they need a National Guard deployment to stop them from storming the Capitol when an election doesn't go their way.”
There are always going to be a few nuts, agents provocateurs.
*********************************
Over 300 MAGAs have been arrested for rioting at the Capitol. Literally only 1 of them has been traced back to any kind of left-leaning politics. The rest are all classic Trumpers.
This was considered a valid signature under rules agreed to by people without the constitutional authority to make such agreements.
https://welovetrump.com/2020/12/31/check-out-what-qualifies-as-a-signature-match-in-georgia/
Under those rules, 99.9% of signatures “matched.” That’s loathing for democracy and “one man, one vote."
tim in vermont said...
"No one said these people were smart. Dumb, violent, and loathing of democracy was good enough.”
Not a “coup," not an “insurrection," a riot.
***************************
You can call it whatever you want. It stopped the required, constitutional counting of electoral votes, which was its purpose. It got 5 people killed.
Over 300 MAGAs have been arrested for rioting at the Capitol. Literally only 1 of them has been traced back to any kind of left-leaning politics. The rest are all classic Trumpers.
You believe everything the FBI tells you when they have been proven to be liars in the whole Russia Gate affair. Lying to the FISA court, Wray shut down the investigation into this proven lying.
200 people were arrested at Trump’s inauguration for rioting violently, and all were let go.
tim in vermont said...
Over 300 MAGAs have been arrested for rioting at the Capitol. Literally only 1 of them has been traced back to any kind of left-leaning politics. The rest are all classic Trumpers.
You believe everything the FBI tells you when they have been proven to be liars in the whole Russia Gate affair. Lying to the FISA court, Wray shut down the investigation into this proven lying.
********************************
You label any and all news you don't like as fake.
"It stopped the required, constitutional counting of electoral votes,”
There is no date in the Constitution. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
"You label any and all news you don't like as fake.”
Are you saying that the FBI didn’t lie to the FISA court to get a warrent to surveil the Trump campaign?
Troll are trying to ruin this blog, Althouse.
tim in vermont said...
"It stopped the required, constitutional counting of electoral votes,”
There is no date in the Constitution. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
***************************
Oh please. Now you're being ridiculous.
So you accept the court proven fact that the FBI lied to the FISA court to spy on the Republican Party’s candidate for president on the strength of known lies from the DNC, but it just doesn’t bother you.
I am just curious how deep your reverence for democracy and fair play goes.
Does your devotion to the Constitution extend to the first amendment, and so you were distressed when the stories about Hunter Biden’s laptop, which the FBI has had in it’s possession now for almost two years, I think, were suppressed based on an opinion piece written by former political appointees of Obama’s who once worked at the CIA and who never actually looked at the laptop?
Do you believe that Biden’s laptop was “Russian disinformation”?
I am just curious how gullible you are that you can reject every story you don’t like as “Russian disinformation."
It was a mostly peaceful protest. Not fiery though.
tim in vermont said...
So you accept the court proven fact that the FBI lied to the FISA court to spy on the Republican Party’s candidate for president on the strength of known lies from the DNC, but it just doesn’t bother you.
I am just curious how deep your reverence for democracy and fair play goes.
******************************
I have thankfully not followed every twist and every turn of the Carter Page investigation. I am also not going to follow every twist and turn that you want to take this conversation, since you're clearly just trying to change the subject from the MAGA attack on the Capitol, which is the subject of this post. I will say that there were many, many, many good reasons for the FBI to investigate all of the strange links between Trumpworld and Russia during the 2016 campaign.
Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook labeled all stories about election fraud as “disputed” based on “strong protections” in place for mail in voting, including observers at the canvassing and signature verification. Neither of which happened in the most hotly disputed vote counting areas.
Does that bother you? That you were lied to and in fact these protections were not in place? As a worshipful fan of democracy, surely these facts upset you.
" have thankfully not followed every twist and every turn of the Carter Page investigation. I am also not going to follow “
Of course not. Because you are not interested in the truth or fair elections, or why people might be angry. Why Trump was wise to suggest to Pelosi that the National Guard should be used.
Takes me back to Los Angeles 1992-93 after Rodney King police verdict. Said a lot whether one used "riots" or "insurrection." For January 6, to me it's the role of DJT that justifies the latter term. He was the one trying to prevent Biden's inauguration and the one in charge of military/police power.
For somebody who worships democracy, it’s odd that you don’t care that the CIA, NSA, and FBI were mucking around in elections. Especially since their goal seems to be to continue the wars in the Middle East, and on the first full day of the Biden Administration, more troops were rolled into Syria, and now we are bombing there again.
The same people doing this are the people who leaked our way into the Gulf War by manipulating reporters at the New York Times and Washington Post. The same people, the same agenda. War, war, war. Weapons sales, war. That’s what the first impeachment was about, delaying weapons money for a couple weeks.
When of course Hunter Biden’s laptop demonstrates clearly that Trump was right to inquire about Biden corruption.
Interesting rationalizing as to what to call a riot instigated by Trump to stop the constitutional process of counting the electoral college votes just a riot and no big deal—thanks to Ron Johnson for this delusion, And the right wing talking points trying to blame Pelosi is just another distortion : Responsibility for Capitol security is shared, it is not solely the responsibility of the Speaker.
Security is provided by the sergeant-at-arms of the House, the sergeant-at-arms of the Senate and the Capitol Police. The House sergeant-at-arms reports to the House speaker, Pelosi. The Senate sergeant-at-arms reports to the Senate majority leader, then McConnell. The Capitol Police is overseen by a four-member board that includes both sergeants-at-arms.
So it was the Republicans fault? From most reports the communication that day was a tangled mess involving many characters including folks in the Pentagon.
"He was the one trying to prevent Biden's inauguration and the one in charge of military/police power.”
EIther you are lying, or believing lies. Pelosi is in charge of Capitol security, and Trump offered her National Guard support which she refused. It’s right in the testimony this past week.
tim in vermont said...
Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook labeled all stories about election fraud as “disputed” based on “strong protections” in place for mail in voting, including observers at the canvassing and signature verification. Neither of which happened in the most hotly disputed vote counting areas.
Does that bother you? That you were lied to and in fact these protections were not in place? As a worshipful fan of democracy, surely these facts upset you.
**************************
I believe in voting rights, so no, I am not bothered by lies about election fraud being called "disputed". Maybe they should have just stamped "Lies" on these articles instead of being so nice with "disputed". But I'm not terribly bothered about it.
"to what to call a riot instigated by Trump”
Trump offered security to the Capitol, which they refused. An odd plan.
"I believe in voting rights”
But not signature verification or election observers. That’s a pretty funny definition of “voting rights” you have. Every fraudulent vote cancels a legitimate vote and therefore infringes on voting rights.
tim in vermont said...
" have thankfully not followed every twist and every turn of the Carter Page investigation. I am also not going to follow “
Of course not. Because you are not interested in the truth or fair elections, or why people might be angry. Why Trump was wise to suggest to Pelosi that the National Guard should be used.
**********************************
Says the guy who thinks the Capitol Riot was really just a schedule change.
tim in vermont said...
Pelosi is in charge of Capitol security
****************************************
This is actually a joint role that was held by her and McConnell at the time. No fixation on McConnell here for some reason.
Says the guy who is OK with the FBI, CIA, and NSA abusing the Patriot Act and interfering in our elections,
tim in vermont said...
"I believe in voting rights”
But not signature verification or election observers. That’s a pretty funny definition of “voting rights” you have. Every fraudulent vote cancels a legitimate vote and therefore infringes on voting rights.
*************************************
You have no evidence of voter fraud. Zero. So we're done here.
" No fixation on McConnell here for some reason.”
McConnell has made no secret of his hatred of Trump for upsetting the big donor gravy train.
I either refer to it as a riot, or make sure to refer to other riots as insurrections. Asking people why they backed the anti-Kavanaugh Insurrectionists who invaded DC and managed to corner some Senators in those sacred halls does take the wind out of the idea of "insurrection."
tim in vermont said...
Says the guy who is OK with the FBI, CIA, and NSA abusing the Patriot Act and interfering in our elections,
*************************
What would you say about a president calling up the leader of a foreign power and requiring that they dig up dirt on his primary political opponent before said president will release congressionally-mandated military aid to that foreign power? You were cool with it, I'm sure. Get off your high horse.
tim in vermont said...
" No fixation on McConnell here for some reason.”
McConnell has made no secret of his hatred of Trump for upsetting the big donor gravy train.
******************
So you think it was a conspiracy between Pelosi and McConnell? They wanted the riot? LOL. You gotta get outside, man.
"You have no evidence of voter fraud. Zero. So we're done here.”
We know that signature verification was thrown out in disputed areas and we know that observers were not allowed in at key times. These are worldwide democratic norms that were violated.
I can see why you bailed though. You are losing. Your arguments don’t work as well here as they do as hothouse flowers in whatever protected place where dissent is not allowed you usually frequent to get your talking points.
If you were right, you would have better responses. Instead you pick and choose the democratic norms you pretend to care deeply about.
"And any look at the tape, not to mention the police who acknowledged simply letting demonstrators walk in, showed how harmless an event it was."
-- See, I'm in the "not an insurrection" camp, but I wish people would be more careful in how they defend from that attack. Saying things like this makes people think that anti-insurrection narrativists think the event was "harmless" or that "there was no violence." It was a riot that was handled poorly by the security personnel on the ground -- people DID get hurt. There was violence and property damage. If you say things that let people twist it into sounding like you think there was none, your argument is going to get dropped into the "conspiracy theorist" pile if you aren't more careful.
"So you think it was a conspiracy between Pelosi and McConnell? “
Had they taken. Trump’s advice and taken him up on his offer, it never would have happened, so the responsibility is on them.
Not to mention that by coincidence, I am sure, they are the biggest beneficiaries of the riots, politically.
My autocorrect would have changed that the "Greenwad," but since he got in touch with the novel-writing robot, sex is the only thing on his mind.
*
I refer to the riotserrection as "The Events of January 6" or "The Civic Disorder Earlier This Year" or "The Late Unpleasantness at the Capitol."
*
Was Trump really in charge of the "civil/military power?" He didn't control the Capitol Police or the DC police. He may barely have controlled the Pentagon. A lot went wrong (or went right if you want to use the incident as reason for a crackdown) that was beyond his control, and seriously, an "armed insurrection" without real arms has to be some kind of joke.
And no one except me, finds it bizarre, crazy, and scary.
Nope. There are a LOT of us out here.
"Spin me a plausible narrative, please, about what a mob of clowns pushing into an office building would do or say or show to some professional law enforcement officers that would lead to those officers being overcome with depression, guilt, shame or other suicidal ideations. What connection is there between the capitol mob and those suicides?"
-- For the days afterwards, they had to deal with the knowledge that the people who were supposed to provide them top cover had abandoned them by refusing additional security. Also remember, their suicides were BEFORE the revelation the one officer's death was not caused by a fire extinguisher blow to the head. They were also being told that every officer and National Guard member were going to have their life examined by the politicians to determine their loyalty. Then, they were going to be made to go back out there and do it again -- fully aware the politicians may not protect them or might prefer a few of them dead top use as bloody shirts to rally the masses. That's before you get to the actual stress of being at the event.
It was a super high stress event, and I think it is wrong to assume that it played no role. We may never know, for sure, though, unless those who killed themselves left a note.
"Out in the open. I’m not saying a word to my dem friends about it. It’s like a quiet background noise- and when the shit hits the fan, well- I hope they all get a mouthful."
Me too, Farmgirl. And for some, I hope they choke on it....
As if on cue the usual suspects arrive to show their butts.
Little children. Afraid of ghost stories.
Qanon! Boo!
Insurrection, riot coup, whatever. The fact is that idiots in this crowd could have carried out an assassination of VP Pence or members of Congress. Call it what you want but their intent was to forcefully stop the legal transfer of power.
"The reason was Swalwell’s Chinese honey pot was probably feeding him what he considered insider information, sweetened up with that special fish sauce."
-- I expected the sentence as I was reading it, but I also thought "he's going to say 'inside her information.'"
"Call it what you want but their intent was to forcefully stop the legal transfer of power.”
Based on what they “could have done” and they only “could have done” it because Pelosi declined the additional security that Trump proffered and counseled them to take. I take issue with the idea that an out of control mob can have “intent” BTW.
"This is paranoid guilt. They torched all our major cities in 2020. They’re afraid the other side will ultimately take up their tactics. Wouldn’t you be?"
-- This is actually I think partially what made Pelosi and company react so hostilely afterwards. They were expecting a Tea Party or March for Life style rally, despite all the warnings from Trump to the Capitol Police had given them to be prepared. They knew now and then there were counter protesters against Antifa, or that Proud Boys or other "right-wing" elements sometimes checked their forces. But, they never truly considered that might become *the point* of a right-wing protest. Skirmishes from the right-wing were usually to push back Antifa lines that were starting to get too bold when the police abandoned right-wing protesters, responses to attacks, or fighting retreats when the police abandoned them to the mob.
The very idea that the right might *go on the offensive* is alien to the left. They just didn't believe the right could be as violent as they were being warned. But, after a year of watching cities burns -- 4 years, actually, if you consider the Trump Inauguration riots -- and decades of watching left-wing violence be relatively rewarded and downplayed (see: Ayers at the University of Chicago and being praised for claiming if he could do it again, he'd plant more bombs) -- someone on the right finally thought: "Oh, hey. Why aren't we using this acceptable tool?"
tim in vermont said...
Not to mention that by coincidence, I am sure, they are the biggest beneficiaries of the riots, politically.
******************************
They are? What on earth are you talking about? They were almost killed. No one unleashes a riot like that--against themselves!--all in the hope that it will somehow boomerang and benefit them politically. That's insane. That's the brown acid talking, buddy. Seriously, get a grip.
Rich said...
Insurrection, riot coup, whatever. The fact is that idiots in this crowd could have carried out an assassination of VP Pence or members of Congress. Call it what you want but their intent was to forcefully stop the legal transfer of power.
****************************
Thank you.
tim in vermont said...
"You have no evidence of voter fraud. Zero. So we're done here.”
We know that signature verification was thrown out in disputed areas and we know that observers were not allowed in at key times. These are worldwide democratic norms that were violated.
I can see why you bailed though. You are losing. Your arguments don’t work as well here as they do as hothouse flowers in whatever protected place where dissent is not allowed you usually frequent to get your talking points.
If you were right, you would have better responses. Instead you pick and choose the democratic norms you pretend to care deeply about.
********************************
I'm still waiting to see some actual evidence of meaningful voter fraud in the 2020 election. But all you offer is your own masturbatory fantasies. It's a boring conversation because you've got nothing.
"I'm still waiting to see some actual evidence of meaningful voter fraud in the 2020 election.”
Since the safeguards to detect fraud were thrown out, all the while Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook assured us that they were in place, I guess that we have different ideas of what constitutes a fair election.
You are fine with throwing out safeguards that are routinely in place in all other advanced democracies.
According to "Dave" who spoke to an MSNBC informant, March 4 was a false flag, and the real insurrection will occur March 20. I'm not making this up.
The first day of spring? What, are they going to dance the posy and throw flowers in the air? Set up a fake stone henge and worship the sun for crossing the equator?
MSNBC couldn't find its collective ass with both hands.
"He was the one trying to prevent Biden's inauguration and the one in charge of military/police power."
-- This is incorrect; he cannot simply deploy troops wherever he wants in America. Bowser, Pelosi, or the Capitol Police need to request the aid. Remember how he couldn't just release federal troops into other riots in other cities? Now, if you're saying, "as President, Trump should have just ignored the failed local leadership and sent in the troops," well, fine. But would you be singing the same tune if the insurrectionists who tried to breach the White House had been shot dead? The people in Portland? The people who broke into Congress to stop the Kavanaugh hearings?
I get the sneaking suspicion that the only time you wanted Trump to ignore the constitutional and legal limits on deploying the troops happens to coincide when they'd have been killing people you disagree with -- since you've never suggested ignoring these restrictions previously.
"hey are? What on earth are you talking about?”
The weren’t almost killed. That’s the same kind of exaggerated rhetoric as claiming that this was an “armed insurrection” when there were no arms involved. Trump has been banned from YouTube and Twitter. Opposition voices have been removed from the press. Freedom of assembly of Trump supporters has been severely curtailed, freedoms guaranteed in the first amendment. You should take a dispassionate look at how Hitler used the Reichstag Fire to consolidate his power sometime.
"Trump offered security to the Capitol, which they refused. An odd plan."
-- Counterpoint, Trump knew there was no way a Democrat could openly accept his help. Cuomo had let seniors DIE rather than use the hospital ship Trump offered. The governor of Puerto Rico left aid supplies in a warehouse so people would die rather than distribute aid from Trump. Of course Pelosi would risk sacrificing some Capitol Police and maybe even a junior member here or there rather than accept Trump's aid. It was the perfect cover for Trump's maniacal plan.
They were almost killed. No one unleashes a riot like that--
almost killed? by laughing themselves to death?
a riot like that?
How many buildings were burnt down?
How many people killed (not including ones Murdered by the police?
or, do you mean a riot, where the police open up the doors and wave the people in?
The collective left are really into TALKING POINTS. Lock step - talking points.
Name the other major democracy that doesn’t require voter ID.
How about if we allow sales of AR-15s by mail using the same signature verification and address verification standards that are in place in GA, oh yeah, and no ID required.
"We know that signature verification was thrown out in disputed areas and we know that observers were not allowed in at key times"
-- We also know that information that would have helped us determine what happened this election were deleted in areas that still have information from 2016 and the 2018 midterms. In Georgia, I believe, we also know that thousands of votes (which mainly broke for Trump) weren't found until a recount, and that in several other jurisdictions thumbdrives of votes were lost until Trump/right-leaning forces forced election officials to do their jobs.
Even if I don't believe in the idea of "votes switched by Dominion machines," the raw incompetence of the people handling the votes is enough to make me hesitant to make the rules MORE lax and open to abuse. That's not even getting into things like Sticky-gate or the local election that had to have the results thrown out, or the one where the guy who conceded ended up winning in the recount.
"What on earth are you talking about? They were almost killed. No one unleashes a riot like that--against themselves!--all in the hope that it will somehow boomerang and benefit them politically."
-- They were in no physical danger. The rioters were stopped by a door and a single bullet was enough to deter them. If you believe that they were close to being killed, you need to re-evaluate your risk and threat analyses, because you're almost being killed right now as well.
"The collective left are really into TALKING POINTS. Lock step - talking points.”
They are also into “thought stopping” language, a big favorite at all cults. They draw a line where you are supposed to stop thinking and accept what they say without any annoying questioning of their narratives.
"The fact is that idiots in this crowd could have carried out an assassination of VP Pence or members of Congress."
-- The closest thing to an assassination of a political leader in recent history was the baseball field shooting and the Giffords shooting. There are some others listed on Wikipedia for presidents, too, but I didn't include them since none (except MAYBE the crazy guy trying to steal security's pistol to shoot Trump) were really close to happening.
tim in vermont said...
"hey are? What on earth are you talking about?”
Trump has been banned from YouTube and Twitter. Opposition voices have been removed from the press. Freedom of assembly of Trump supporters has been severely curtailed, freedoms guaranteed in the first amendment.
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YouTube and Twitter are private companies that are protected by the First Amendment from being forced to publish speech they don't want to publish. No "opposition voices have been removed from the press"...what on earth does that even mean? Trump supporters have only been curtailed from further attacks on the Capitol, they're free to peaceably assemble in any dumbass way they want...
It’s racist to require an ID to buy an AR-15 if it’s racist to require one to vote. We can’t be denying people rights guaranteed by the second amendment through racist tactics like requiring an ID.
It's the left who openly say anyone not left enough needs "reprogramming"
It's the left who call everyone a Nazi and/or a racist at every turn. the left are the Nazis in power who would gleefully put their enemies in ovens.
"You have no evidence of voter fraud. Zero. So we're done here.”
[Evidence is provided of voter fraud, though we didn't link to actual convictions for voter fraud that have occurred.]
"I'm still waiting to see some actual evidence of meaningful voter fraud in the 2020 election."
-- And there it is folks. In this very thread you can view the real time goal post moving. From provide some evidence of any to "meaningful" voter fraud, with no definition given to meaningful. What's the point of arguing with people in bad faith?
"How about if we allow sales of AR-15s by mail using the same signature verification and address verification standards that are in place in GA, oh yeah, and no ID required."
-- Will we waive the witness signature requirements if the person buying the AR-15 doesn't want to bother with it, like happened in some states for voting too?
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