[W]ith tons of recreational activities and natural beauty, Madison, Wis. — a metropolitan area sandwiched between two lakes — has taken the top spot on our list.... The city’s median home price, $292,000, is one of the lowest of all our winners.... People aged 60 and older can also audit courses at the university for free... During a typical weekend, people can stroll in the university Arboretum and the Lakeshore Nature Preserve on campus.
Weekend? You're retired. Weekdays are even better. You can stroll or walk briskly or run in the Arb and the Lakeshore Preserve. Or just around so many beautiful, interesting neighborhoods — all "sandwiched between two lakes" — and yet there are 5 lakes, not just the bread-in-the-isthmus-sandwich lakes, in Madison, Wisconsin.
Posts
115 comments:
Yes, Madison, WI the BEST place to retire. EVERYONE GO TO MADISON, WI! It is THE. BEST!!!...
Unrelated: TO: Bruce Hayden- I just came back from that place you were talking about. I committed to buy land there. I think I owe you a float trip or something...but a warning to the rest of you- it is a hellhole. NEVER go there. MADISON, WI is THE place to be!!
I guess some city had to be on the list. I lived in one of those “ten best” cities in Money Magazine when it was named, Nashua, NH.. It was an okay city, I guess. I wouldn’t have lived there otherwise, but there were better cities nearby, like Concord, NH, and certainly Portsmouth, NH, for example. Bath, ME, Kitterry...
"can also audit courses at the university for free"
Hmm, can they now.
We visited one of those “best places to raise a family” on a recon trip a couple weeks ago: Overland Park, Kansas. It was lovely, for sure, but clearly a blueberry in the tomato soup. The nicest neighborhoods were, predictably, full of Biden signs. I don’t want to share a community with a critical mass of those people anymore. If we moved to greater KCMO it would probably be one of the smaller towns on the Missouri side.
Money has altered the criteria over the years. It used to emphasize things like cost of living and tax burden. Now it stresses things like woke level and proximity to deplorables.
The housing is cheep, but the taxes will kill ya.
Don't forget the joys of Madison's downtown plywood art gallery.
I mean, it’s fine for now (blue Kansas City and its blue suburbs) and it’s in a comfortably red state but we were getting ready to move to the Twin Cities this year and look what happened with that. Those women in leggings in multimillion dollar houses are the ones who elected that idiot mayor and the band of morons they call a city council. So, our policy is no blue states, and proceed with extreme caution if considering blue cities in red states.
Blue cities have nice stuff, usually — clean parks, nice shopping, nice restaurants, museums and live music and big enough churches — but that doesn’t matter if the blue leadership won’t let you use it because fOr yOuR sAfEty or because they’re letting the orcs burn it down.
Madison, WI is nothing more than an I-94 Interstate pass through town on the way to the Wisconsin Dells.
If you have a University pension funded by student debt and taxpayer subsidies, maybe it’s awesome. And everyone pretends to agree with everyone else, so as long as you keep your mouth shut, you’re welcome to stay. Laugh when you’re supposed to.
For the retired men sick of screwing their own wives, there’s the “Pensions for Pussy” program that helps finance the hookers at the east side no-tells, and debt ridden sugar babies available through the University.
The violence, historical ignorance, and unqualified arrogance, adds a sense of accomplishment to retirement. You can ride your bike by one of Wisconsin’s 12,000 lakes, as long as you have a mask on and keep your distance from any other human.
In your retired comfort and morning bike rides, you can sell out the younger generations and deny them the freedom you enjoyed throughout your prime. Spend your twilight years in safety and security of Central City, denying the totalitarian creep that is Madison, WI.
Please let us keep,our progressive bubble small; if anything take a tip from Althouse and look for another place to retire. Now to be honest, I am pleased with our new neighbors who moved here from North Carolina, Chicago and Stevens Point—one is a retired doctor,and the others moved here for new employment.
Yes, yes! Madison, WI, most wonderful place on earth. Everybody move there, now. Stat! Never mind the violent demonstrations, er, I mean mostly peaceful protests. All those news articles and videos are just Trumpian propaganda, fake news. It's always sunny, with temperatures never to hot or too cold, but always JUST RIGHT! Black and white folks live peacefully side-by-side, never an incidence of violence, looting, shooting or other phenomena that continually plague Red State America. Antifa and BLM hold nightly hootenannies with the gentry white folk down by the river(s), reading poetry and playing Trivial Pursuit. Really.
Weekend? You're retired.
It's been over three years, since i've been Working For the Weekend
this was the Sad Thing, that no one warned me about... If you're retired ...
You NEVER GET A DAY OFF
Retired is Seven Days a Week
And interesting paintings on boarded up storefronts where ugly windows used to be. Don’t mind the freaks, aggressive homeless, vandalism, high taxes, intolerance for anything not leftist, and racial strife. But maybe you get used to all of that.
Yep, Madison, Wisgonsin,
- palm trees swaying in the gentle breezes
- year-round balmy temps w/ideal humidity
- litter-free, graffiti-free
- friendly & always helpful mostly peaceful rioters
- open discussion on all the issues of the day with respect shown for all points of view
- low, low municipal taxes with super-efficient government workers
What's not to like?
"Madison, WI is nothing more than an I-94 Interstate pass through town on the way to the Wisconsin Dells."
Keep your GPS on because you won't get there like that.
New year, new list. I remember a few years ago when my wife and I were researching a town to make our getaway from ATL. We loved ATL as a large city, but were tired of sitting in traffic for even the most mundane local errands. Plus...we were looking for either the beach or the mountains + culture. We checked out a number of cities but nowhere on our list was a city that featured:
a) an overabundance of college students with attitudes which led to
b) quarterly protests or riots
c) defiled or torn down statues
d) boarded up downtown businesses
e) Winters that included snow, sleet, ice.
Not sure when Money did their check of Madison, but did they miss the boarded up businesses?
Where we live now it's pretty nice. So nice I'm not going to tell anyone.
"Please let us keep,our progressive bubble small; if anything take a tip from Althouse and look for another place to retire."
Don't attribute "tips" to me that I haven't made.
It's a beautiful place. I'd consider living there except a working majority of the residents are freakin' nuts. Too bad. Like California, great natural beauty spoiled by too many perpetual adolescents running the show.
"rehajm said...
Money has altered the criteria over the years. It used to emphasize things like cost of living and tax burden. Now it stresses things like woke level and proximity to deplorables."
I agree. However, I thought MONEY had stopped publication - at least that's what they told me right after I paid for a five year renewal and didn't get a refund.
The magazine content was really going downhill in the last few years. Another case of get woke, go broke.
It’s lousy with violent communists. Hard pass.
Ann and Meade:
You can audit courses at the University of Wisconsin for free! You should do it.
My 50ish kids are planning to move out of Madtown as soon as last kid graduates because taxes and not enough deplorables to make things comfortable and interesting.
Whats the weather like this time of year in Madison?
We are getting colder here. The northern Tucson high is 70 degrees with full sun.
I started wearing long pants last week after 6 months of shorts and sandals.
The wacko lefties only run downtown Tucson and leave us alone. Our taxes are moderate.
Sonoran cuisine is better than Midwestern food, although you cannot find as many Eastern European restaurants here.
We have nothing a tacky as Wisconsin Dells nearby.
I am happy to have moved here from the Midwest.
A friend of mine took Boeing's Voluntary LayOff offer and retired last spring. He's an avid duck hunter. He blew off lunch with us other retired folks to go duck hunting last Wednesday. And every day of duck hunting season. Imagine that, using your retirement to go duck hunting in the middle of the week instead of just weekends when you were a working stiff!
Pro tip: Everything written about Franklin, TN (#4) in that article is a lie. It’s a horrible place to live. Just awful. Don’t even consider moving here...er, there.
Can Seattle send its homeless to Madison? How about our King County council, executive and prosecuting attorney? I'm sure they'd find Madison a lovely city and ideal for settlement.
I too live in southeast Wisconsin and have access to essentially all of the same type of amenities listed in this article within short distance. One thing I don't have where I live is the overbearing cloud of progressive smugness and the constant, in-your-face protest-whining of the Madison general population. Weather, taxes, etc. are all essentially the same, so tell me again why I would want to live in Madison? That would be hell on earth for me.
There is one amenity that I really love in Madison - that's the Olbrich Botanical Gardens. I have access to some similar gardens about a half-hour drive from where I live, but I do consider Olbrich as outstanding.
BTW - why does Madison have venues like Olbrich and others? Because, being the government center-of-the-universe for the state of Wisconsin, there is an attitude like that of ancient Rome: bring your tributes (taxes) to Caesar so that we may build a monument to our glorious selves. If Portage or Spooner were able to keep more of their tax money locally, perhaps they too could have a nice amenity such as Olbrich, instead of letting a horde of bureaucrats in Madison build all the monuments for themselves.
Harlottesville, Virginia, home of the University of Virginia, was rated high as a retirement destination for years, but that ended up wrecking it. Cost of buying a modest home, taxes, congestion, and cost of living went way up. Now it will be Madison’s turn. Enjoy, Althouse!
(Typo was accidental but I decided to leave it.)
Years ago, when Seattle was a nice place to live, Emmet Watson of the Seattle Post-Intellengencer formed Lesser Seattle. The mission of Lesser Seattle was to discourage people from moving to Seattle, as Seattle was a horrible place to live, with all of that rain and no sun. Franklin, TN needs to form its own Lesser Franklin organization.
I call bullshit. If you buy a house in Madison around the median price range, you're also buying an annual property tax bill of $4,500 or more. Few retirees can afford this.
Compare this with someplace like Lexington, KY where your property tax bill is likely to be half that.
Magazine Top Ten Places to Retire lists are worthless. Here is a list of cities that have both low property taxes and NCI-Designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers:
1. Birmingham, AL
2. Oklahoma City, OK
3. Lexington, KY
4. Albuquerque, NM
5. Nashville, TN
Plus, all that beautiful artwork on the plywood encased store fronts.
Or, well, they used to be storefronts.
Soon they will be empty retail space in foreclosure.
Which is nice.
Oh, BTW - regarding the photo in the Madison article: is that you, Meade? Letting your freak-flag fly these days? I really like the shorts! :)
I guess the broken storefronts and civil unrest didn’t affect the rating of Madison as #1 for retirement. I knew that those who live in Madison and love living there will continue to count their blessings.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"Keep your GPS on because you won't get there like that."
I don't know what your point is, but have you ever been to the Dells, or is that too Americana? Coming from the great Waukesha County I-94, I-90, and I-39 meet and all run together through Madison. I-94 / I-90 Splits to the Dells, and I-39 to Wausau. I-90 splits to to La Crosse at Tomah and I-94 heads to Minneapolis, another town liberals trashed.
Part of being a real Wisconsinite is not needing GPS for interstate basics.
No thanks. I don't need to be lectured to by the Woke. I don't like plywood art in the windows of my Main Street. I'm thinking South Dakota, where I can live free.
We really enjoyed our three years in Madison, living at Eagle Heights. Two of our children were born there, and I would move back in a heartbeat.
I'm shocked to see Largo as #2 on the list. I grew up there and it's nothing but wall to wall retirees, sort of like God's waiting room. There are a dozen small cities in Pinellas county and they all sort of run together once you get north of St. Pete. I can't imagine why Largo would make the list instead of Dunedin or Clearwater or Seminole. Seen one, seen 'em all.
The inclusion of "Pine Crest Golf Club" is hilarious. It's the rinkiest, dinkiest pitch and putt course in the bay area. You can play the whole thing with a 9 iron and a putter.
A bit of trivia about Largo: Gene Chizik Jr, the former Auburn football coach, was son of Gene Chizik Sr., the principal at LHS waaaaay back in the day. Gene Sr. was a decorated Marine who fought at Iwo Jima.
Rubbing elbows with Ann and Meade is the best part.
Is downtown still boarded up?
Madison has a nice airport.
I’m sure it’s nice to audit classes since you pay 17k per year in property taxes. IIRC.
Francisco D said... We have nothing a tacky as Wisconsin Dells nearby.
The Wisconsin Dells is for kids and families. Kids LOVE IT. Anyone who grew up in a middle class or poorer Wisconsin family remembers trips to the Dells. It’s campy Americana iconic. Paul Bunyan’s all you can eat shanty. Storybook Gardens. They Tommy Bartlett water show. Mt. Olympus park has one of the BEST old wooden roller coasters in the USA that tunnels under the parking lot. Not one relaxing moment on the ride. Kids love the Duck boat rides from WWII. To get you through the winter, the Wisconsin Dells invented the indoor water park where kids can play to their hearts content, while parents sit pool-side and get wasted.
If that’s tacky, count me in.
The free audit is appealing. Is this a common offering in university towns?
Well it’s snowing today in Waukesha County, just an hour to the east. Not enough to run the snowblower though like I did Halloween 2019.
Tommy Bartlett is toast. It got the virus, or the virus got it.
Palm trees and hot weather are vastly overrated, but they are easy to find and cheap if that’s what you seek.
There's no such thing as a 10 best city.
Not twelve months of golf weather?
Yeah ... no.
I don’t know most of the towns on the list, but #10 is Roseville, CA. Yeah, if you like traffic all the time and continued CA sprawl.
Instead of Madison, we are heading to Door County. Fewer people in our town than in our current building.
And the best is that all the icky brown and black people are in places you'll never go. At least for now. They're starting to get uppity.
Blogger Inga said...
I guess the broken storefronts and civil unrest didn’t affect the rating of Madison as #1 for retirement. I knew that those who live in Madison and love living there will continue to count their blessings.
For God's sake stay there ! Like Francisco, we live just outside blue Tucson, which might have some boarded up stores But we don't go there. There used to be opera and the Astronomy Society meetings but the crazy Mayor has shut all that down. There is a serious movement to recall her but we can't sign the petition because we are outside the city.
Stay with the boarded up storefronts until they are all gone.
Madison,
Come for the high prices and high taxes,
Stay for the miserable weather
Here is a list of cities that have both low property taxes and NCI-Designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers:
1. Birmingham, AL
2. Oklahoma City, OK
3. Lexington, KY
4. Albuquerque, NM
5. Nashville, TN
—————————
Nashville (Davidson Co) just put through a 32-34% property tax increase and their finances are a train wreck during their current Golden Age. Run by Democrats forever. Fair warning.
And Birmingham declared bankruptcy, which is nice.
My impression was that Wisconsin would be under a few feet of snow by late November. But without any interesting topography to slide around on. Have I got that wrong?
Tim in Vermont said: "Palm trees and hot weather are vastly overrated, but they are easy to find and cheap if that’s what you seek."
It was on our list, but not necessarily what we sought. However, after 3+ years in it, I can say, I love it. In the peak of summer, 95+ degrees with 90% humidity gets some getting used to, but after 3 years it gets easier. I did not flinch this year. And now? Well...as you are headed into deep winter up north, it's in the 70s and sunny here today. The palms are stirring from the ocean breeze. The sky is a deep blue. Its so nice, our dog refuses to come in and just wants to lay outside and bark at a crane flying overhead occasionally.
If the Wuhan virus had not shut everything down, we'd have our symphony, multiple theaters for live plays, opera, art shows, and sidewalk cafes open all over. As is, with Wuhan, we're left with just the weather and beautiful Gulf Coast sunsets.
I'll take it.
How much income and property taxes?
"Ann Althouse said...
"Madison, WI is nothing more than an I-94 Interstate pass through town on the way to the Wisconsin Dells."
Keep your GPS on because you won't get there like that."
94 goes through Madison. Not "your Madison", but Madison nonetheless.
Jupiter said...
My impression was that Wisconsin would be under a few feet of snow by late November. But without any interesting topography to slide around on. Have I got that wrong?
Instead of sledding you can ice skate instead?
Doug said...
Not twelve months of golf weather?
Yeah ... no.
My ultimate plan is to enjoy the 6 months where the weather is nicer up North. Perfect in many places.
Then go South for the other 6 months.
Nice in the summer and early fall. Spring sucks and winter sucks.
Property taxes too high.
"COVID-19 has certainly taken its toll on Wisconsin, but its workforce has fared better than much of the country, with its unemployment rate at 5.7% in October compared to the country’s 6.9%."
This so much bullshit. Notice the change from "Madison" to "Wisconsin"?
Wisconsin outside Madison isn't close to those numbers. And of course we had to pay for all those Madison state and UW workers who continued to get paid while they sat on their asses at home "working". No one layoff. Not one RIF. Not one furlough.
I couldn't live in a town that woke.
Does every senior citizen who moves there get a free gun and training so they can fend off the Antifa and BLM mobs?
320Busdriver said..."Tommy Bartlett is toast. It got the virus, or the virus got it."
Not the virus, per se, but the Evers RESPONSE to the virus got it. A clarification I like to make about all these companies put out of business by "an abundance of caution"... and totalitarian attitudes.
Has anyone heard anything from Allen S? He should be all over this Wisconsin thread.
As long as you have a winter house.
Actually for as bad as winter is there, it's the "spring" that's so depressing. shorts weather on that first glorious day in (late) March when it barely creeps up to 50 degrees, and then the inevitable Easter snow/sleet/freezing rain. 45 degrees on Memorial Day.
No thanks. Gave that up a long time ago.
But summer and fall. that's fine. June to October.
I wonder what Ann’s favorite walking neighborhoods are, apart from her own of course. I didn’t phrase this as a question because Ann never answers my questions. This way I won’t be disappointed
Gusty Winds - I think her point is that I 94 barely touches Madison.
Having lived in Madison a couple of times the only thing I liked was the muni golf. Odana Hills was a nice track for a muni. Not terribly hard but still a test for all but the lowest handicappers.
Property taxes average 2.21% of assessed value which is typically 95% of real potential selling price.
So for every $500k of real estate I own there (I own 14 rental units, so I have more than that), I pay MORE in property taxes than I do on my BAY AREA CALIFORNIA house, which, suffice to say would sell for more than $1M, like every house around here. I don't really care that much because of course it's passed to the renters, as the liberals running Madison really stick it to me and the out of area landlords (sarc). But man, those property taxes are stupid high. and they go up around 6%/year, year in and year out, whether inflation is 1% or 4%, or population grows or doesn't.
I mean, what the hell are you guys spending the money on? I know in California it's our $275k/year sheriff deputy (not even the main guy) and his $300k/year pension when he retires after being convicted of taking bribers for concealed carry permits. but it was my impression that WI cops aren't quite up to those standards.
One additional data point in the opposite direction - Kiplinger's includes Wisconsin in its "Least Tax Friendly" category of states for retirees.
Growing up in Madison in the 1960s we would go in town after the riots and pick up the empty pepper gas canisters. Not a good show and tell item in grade school.
OTOH, way too many loonies
“Has anyone heard anything from Allen S? He should be all over this Wisconsin thread.”
Yeah, he’d be here if he were still able to be. I’ve noticed a few other long time commenters who no longer comment, some from the beginning of the pandemic, some from the middle or later.
Sounds like Boise with riots. You can keep it
DavidUW, you're REALLY gonna love it when the cost of the additional $350 million referendum for schools no one is going to hits your bill!
"Madison, Wisconsin ranks #1 in Money Magazine's new "10 Best Places to Retire in America.""
Maybe, just maybe, if this gains traction:
The campaign to replace Madison’s cop-hating alders is on!
Trying again...
"Madison, Wisconsin ranks #1 in Money Magazine's new "10 Best Places to Retire in America.""
Maybe, just maybe, if this gains traction:
The campaign to replace Madison’s cop-hating alders is on!
The low median housing price is frightening. Definitely not fab. That's like the price of a parking spot here.
Whiskybum said..."BTW - why does Madison have venues like Olbrich and others? Because, being the government center-of-the-universe for the state of Wisconsin, there is an attitude like that of ancient Rome: bring your tributes (taxes) to Caesar so that we may build a monument to our glorious selves. If Portage or Spooner were able to keep more of their tax money locally, perhaps they too could have a nice amenity such as Olbrich, instead of letting a horde of bureaucrats in Madison build all the monuments for themselves."
I have prolly said things similar to your comment a hundred times over the years. You can always see one or more construction cranes overhead near campus and Findorff has a mighty fancy headquarters on account of that. The majority of northern Wisconsin (north of Hwy. 8) could be summed up by the name of a defunct ski area up there back in the day- Hardscrabble.
My mom said it's snowing there today.
Before, during, or after the protests?
I would've said San Miguel de Allende.
Althouse if I am not mistaken you and Mead were exploring other places to retire a few years ago including looking at homes in Asheville but you are still here--why live in this god forsaken Liberal town?
Calypso, I’ll just pass it on to the tenants. Liberals never figure out how rents work.
Cambridge has the lowers property tax in mass. My bill has gone down every year since 2013. It's because we have all the big fab biotech companies here.
The other things the liberals never figure out is that when they jack up the property taxes, not only do I just pass it on for the tenants to pay, but that ALSO increases the "base" rent in essence, so the "standard" 2%-4% annual hike is done off of a bigger base, so I get an even higher income in real dollars.
Thanks to all you innumerate morons!
Titus, Cambridge is disgusting. Terrible housing stock, terrible weather, terrible traffic, and the T is slower than walking if you don't freeze to death on your way.
But really. the weather is godawful.
And freeze your ball$ off for 5+ months out of the year?
NO THANKS!
I grew up in Madison, worked elsewhere, returned to school at UW. Was work-relocated many times. Lived in multiple deep south and western areas for years, then relocated to Minnesota. Still have relatives there. I get a chuckle at the local boosters here: people who gripe about the cold where they came from, but huddle in their air conditioned houses as the heat rises to the high 90s or low 100 for the same length of time. People in Florida would tell me that they would never live in a tornado zone - while waiting in line at the Home Depot for plywood to defend against a coming hurricane.
If we mentioned that we were from Minnesota we invariably got the "Ohhh! Minnasooohtah! eh! Ya you know! Fargo! 10,000 lakes! mosquitoes! A litany of yahoo ignorance. Then came the cry of the born-again relocator: "In Arizona when it's -90 degrees below in Minnesooootah we go golfing". Well, in Minnesota we sprinkle our lawns with what Arizonans call drinking water. A lawn is an area of green grass often found in front, alongside and behind houses."
A boss once told me that when I retire I should draw a driving distance circle on the map around the grandchildren. You will usually retire inside that circle. And be happy.
Blogger steve uhr said...
Gusty Winds - I think her point is that I 94 barely touches Madison.
Actually I-94/90/39 passes through the upper east side of Madison, WI by the East Towne Mall. The businesses there rely on the Washington off ramp. Airport access too. But that’s the shady part of town the West Siders and University elite like to pretend doesn’t exist, so I can understand the reason behind the geographical faux pas.
Not one furlough.
UW employees have had 5 mandatory furlough days since July, and we are expected to take 5 more between January and June. (I wanted to take a week off in January, but you can do at most one per week.)
Madison property taxes are the ne plus ultra of confiscatory taxes. $1200/month for my house -- 3BR, 2Bath.
Gotagonow, where I live, I barely turn on the heat and have no air conditioner. 55-60 in winter, 70-100 in summer, depending but it's dry. and yes, 100 that's dry is just fine. and way better than your 85 and humid in summer. never mind the bugs; first place I lived here didn't have screens and I didn't notice.
Minnesota is unlivable.
Madison? The problem is that then you would actually be in Madison full time (more or less).
It's a long way from everywhere. Too green and badly lit doesn't even begin to describe it, and that's before you get to the weather. But, like Dartmouth, it seems there are those who love it.
Inga said...
I guess the broken storefronts and civil unrest didn’t affect the rating of Madison as #1 for retirement. I knew that those who live in Madison and love living there will continue to count their blessings.
*******************
Myself, having to worry about future "civil unrest" aka rioting and arson, and needing to avoid certain parts of town because they are burnt down or boarded up, would certainly harsh MY retirement buzz.
I suppose I---like Miss Ann---could learn to ignore it, just as dot Indians can walk through a gauntlet of beggars along the side of the road with complete disregard.
But don't laugh--developing that kind of steely indifference takes a lot of work!!
The thing that pisses me off the MOST about Madison, is that they use Milwaukee for their own political gain, and then screw up the city for everyone else. If you can look past the crack, heroine, and fentanyl Milwaukee is actually a lot of fun. The downtown Theater District is cool by City Hall, and the festivals by the Lake Front are a blast. We’ll they use to be. In 2020 Madison/ Evers / Barrett / and COVID cancelled all of them.
Summer 2021 will be interesting to see if any of it returns. The aggressive violence promoted by Madison’s Top 10 retirement elite is sure to infect the safety of Summerfest and the other Ethnic Festivals in Milwaukee. It already wrecked State Fair. Not sure how the ANTIFA/BLM vs W.O.W County Cultures will now mix with alcohol involved. But yeah. Thanks Madison!!!
"And freeze your ball$ off for 5+ months out of the year?"
An artful combination of long underwear, flannel jeans and brandy can prevent that catastrophe.
Oconomowoc, WI used to be the Lake Geneva of Wisconsin. Chicago mob money hung out there and left some cool stuff behind. It too has dual lakes, and a lot of other lakes surrounding where you can launch a boat and bar hop. It has managed to preserve its Cream City Brick buildings downtown. It’s like Madison except without all the arrogant crazy people, politicians, and University of Wisconsin Employees. It's sane. I don’t know if I’d retire there, but certainly better for raising a family. You can eat indoors, and when you eat outdoors you don't have to worry about some collegiate Frankenstein with a bullhorn wrecking your lunch telling you you're racist.
"In Arizona when it's -90 degrees below in Minnesooootah we go golfing". Well, in Minnesota we sprinkle our lawns with what Arizonans call drinking water. A lawn is an area of green grass often found in front, alongside and behind houses."
We have a lawn behind the house in Tucson. We bought the house for it so the dog had a nice place to poop. I guess that glorious Minnesota weather is why we have so many Minn plates on cars around here in the winter. Bruce Haydon has the best idea, Montana in summer and AZ (not PHX) in winter. If our daughter ever moves to Sand Point, maybe we'll be able to visit.
"MadisonMan said...
Not one furlough.
UW employees have had 5 mandatory furlough days since July, and we are expected to take 5 more between January and June. (I wanted to take a week off in January, but you can do at most one per week.)
Madison property taxes are the ne plus ultra of confiscatory taxes. $1200/month for my house -- 3BR, 2Bath."
I stand corrected. Still a much sweeter deal than in the private workplace. Furloughs still provide continued benefits and protections. And they're predictable. You're basically getting a bunch of unpaid days off. And the financial loss is helped by unemployment benefits. So not much of a hardship at all. And I'll bet for many they like it.
But state workers, my statement holds true. I know a lot of state workers from my time there, and of course they know even more, and you wouldn't believe how many I see bitching on FB because they are deemed essential and have to go to work, wanting to be like most of their brothers who area at home "working" and getting paid.
Madison has expanded greatly to the east of the I-90 (&I-90,94&39 freeways further north), but it is largely hidden from view and even most locals think of the isthmus, and the inner east and west sides as being Madison. At least these new neighborhoods are out of the riot zone and appear to have property taxes that aren't near that of Meadehouse.
Fella once told me he was gonna strap a snow blower on the roof of his van and drive south. The first time someone asked him "what the hell is that thing up there?", he'd start lookin around.
"The aggressive violence promoted by Madison’s Top 10 retirement elite is sure to infect the safety of Summerfest and the other Ethnic Festivals in Milwaukee. It already wrecked State Fair."
Bullshit happening at State Fair is a thing of the past. The last incidence (and only major one) was 2011. The only thing you see is an occasional drunk fight, but very few of those, and the well staffed police force is right on top of it.
Ever notice these 'best of' listings never take the weather into account?
I saw one where Bismarck, ND was in the top 10. Have you ever spent a winter in Bismarck? I have. It sucks.
$14,400/year for property taxes.
You buy your house once with the mortgage
and you get to pay for it again with the taxes, as in you've paid for another entire house if you live there roughly 22 years.
I mean, that's seriously ridiculous.
At least I pass it on in rents
What do you get?
"Nashville (Davidson Co) just put through a 32-34% property tax increase and their finances are a train wreck during their current Golden Age. Run by Democrats forever. Fair warning."
I'm told that the City of Franklin, just 21 mi. south of Nashville, and in Williamson County, is the best place to live in Tennessee.
>>$1200/month for my house -- 3BR, 2Bath
$1200 a month in taxes??? That's a nice monthly mortgage AND taxes AND insurance around here.
That's just crazy.
Curious George said... I stand corrected. Still a much sweeter deal than in the private workplace. Furloughs still provide continued benefits and protections. And they're predictable. You're basically getting a bunch of unpaid days off. And the financial loss is helped by unemployment benefits. So not much of a hardship at all. And I'll bet for many they like it.
This is what makes smarmy Madison suck, and why it sucks the life out of the rest of the deplorable private sector citizens of Wisconsin. The University of Wisconsin is the largest employer in the State. That’s what makes it so arrogant, unproductive, and clueless. Also, why it continuously insists on feeding itself, and ONLY itself. It’s also why they have zero respect for the outliers that provide them their wealth and comfort. None could survive outside the Central City zone.
Blogger DavidUW said...
$14,400/year for property taxes.....At least I pass it on in rents
I'm sure they do. Students borrow the tuition and room and board, so who cares what the rents are? Increase the property taxes all you want. It's an unlimited influx of money, and the debt doesn't stay behind in your community.
The student rental population (who pay a lot of the property taxes) is only there for two to six years, and then they leave Madison with massive debt they want forgiven. Madison wants the debt forgiven too, so it can run the grift again.
Can't let the well run dry in America's #1 Retirement town.
What do you get?
Location, Location, Location?
Still a much sweeter deal than in the private workplace. Furloughs still provide continued benefits and protections. And they're predictable.
True. Furloughs just mean that I don't take any vacation, and then I bank it all (well, 80h) so that I can retire 1/2 a year early and live on banked vacation for a while.
OTOH, none of my salary comes from the State (i.e., 101 Funds, as the UW calls them). It makes little sense for the state to tell me to take a furlough when all that does is reduce the spending on my grants, and thereby reduce tax revenue, but the UW System and the State are run by morons.
And total agreements about city workers. Have Librarians been laid off? My neighborhood library has been closed since March. Have people who work in City Hall been laid off? Nope. Have they even take a pay cut, the highers-up? At least at the UW, the muckety mucks have taken a pay hit.
Number 10 on the list, Santa Fe, is diverse, but...
https://www.koat.com/article/santa-fe-officer-calls-city-most-racist-place-i-ve-ever-been/5072205
No one in Santa Fe likes blacks. And the hispanics of Spanish descent don't like the hispanics of Mexican descent and the Native Americans don't much like the hispanics of any descent, whites, blacks and anyone not in their tribe or from their pueblo.
But, it is diverse, and they tore down a few statues and monuments this past year, so they got that going for them.
Gusty winds, exactly
Totally price insensitive market. Especially the Coasties. God I live me some coasties.
One crop moves in, pays the rent, moves out, I increase the rent by property tax increase plus another 2-3% or so and rent to the next crop of idiots.
Mommy and daddy pay their bills and I laugh all the way.
I built a house in Middleton in the late 70's west off Airport Road and the value of the house is north of $350K today, tripling my cost to build but the $4,500 property tax bill is unaffordable for many retirees.
I live in a Madison-sized city (30 square miles surrounded by reality) in Indiana where the median house value is under $200,000 but property taxes are really tiny. I will pay less than $800 this year. But I suppose the Badger Band Fifth Quarter is worth at least the 4 Grand difference.
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