Biden is being rude, laughing and mouthing words.... Biden mutters an interruption. When Biden is given a turn, he calls what Ryan said "malarky."... Ryan is speaking earnestly... and Biden is chuckling toothily, his body shaking like Santa Claus.... When Ryan speaks, Biden is laughing clownishly again. It looks just awful... Biden is acting as though he cannot physically tolerate Ryan having a turn to speak!... Biden continually interrupts Ryan in a way I find incredibly annoying.... While Ryan is talking... Biden sighs long and loud... Biden interrupts. Ryan says: "Mr. Vice President, I know you're under a lot of duress to make up for lost ground, but I think everyone will be better served if we don't keep interrupting each other." I love the politeness of "if we don't keep" — we — when Biden has been an interruption machine and Ryan has barely interrupted and only occasionally has talked over to keep from losing his turn. The moderator, Martha Raddatz has done nothing at all to control Biden.... The stress level is rising. Biden is so angry. Why is he yelling? Ryan needs nerves of steel not to lose his cool. I'm impressed that Ryan, when he gets his turn, is able to speak in an even, natural voice. It's hard to concentrate on the policy itself, because the emotional static is so strong... That debate was so annoying! Some of the CNN commentators are talking about how Biden did what he came to do, to fire up the Democrats. "This was not for the independents," says Van Jones. Okay, well, but independents were watching, and Biden was horribly rude. He created this disturbing atmosphere of anxiety.Debating Trump, Biden got a big serving of what he dished out 8 years ago. Ryan did a fantastic job of maintaining his cool, staying substantive, and going high when Biden went low. And then he lost the election. I'm sure Biden would have been willing to do what he did in 2012 and be completely rude and irritating as hell once again, but he's 8 years older, and, more importantly, Donald Trump is not Paul Ryan. Trump is Trump, and Trump saw the ultra-polished and polite Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan go down to defeat.
१ ऑक्टोबर, २०२०
"Biden continually interrupts Ryan in a way I find incredibly annoying."
I'm rereading my live-blogging of the October 11, 2012 debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan. It's making me view Trump's debate behavior in a different way. I hated the way Biden treated the very polite, earnest Midwesterner Ryan. Excerpts (with timestamps omitted):
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टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
९७ टिप्पण्या:
Yep. The call for civility from the left is, definitionally, bullshit.
Great post. Nice to be able to look back.
Ann said:
...and, more importantly, Donald Trump is not Paul Ryan. Trump is Trump, and Trump saw the ultra-polished and polite Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan go down to defeat.
-----------
Damn right he did. No Queensbury rules for Trump. If Biden is going to fight dirty, Trump is more than willing to follow suit and then some.
Trump may have watched the Biden/Ryan debate in preparation and got out in front Biden.
This was also true when Biden debated Palin. Maybe not as bad but he was more than 'intrusive'
That's just Joe being Joe, you know? Good ole' Joe Sixpack, the regular guy. Amiable and loved by all.
OMG.
Amazing post. Thank you, Prof. A.
Our media is so broken it takes Ann Althouse to look at debate tapes Team Trump certainly used to prepare.
Trump is aggressive and boorish was all they needed to end further inquiry.
"Debating Trump, Biden got a big serving of what he dished out 8 years ago. Ryan did a fantastic job of maintaining his cool, staying substantive, and going high when Biden went low. And then he lost the election."
Exactly.
The precise failure of Chris Wallace is this: Biden starts interrupting and heckling of Trunp's two-minute speech. Wallace does not chastise Biden, and allow Slow Joe to get away with it. So, Trump is faced with a choice -- get trampled (as Ryan did) or interrupt back. He chose the latter, and, alas, you get a messy debate.
Biden is a liar and a coward, and a figurehead for ugly leftwing elements in this country.
Obama beat Romney because of Biden's debate performance? Now do Biden-Palin.
Does anyone think it would have helped Trump with suburban women to let feeble Joe bully him in the debate?
"The moderator, Martha Raddatz has done nothing at all to control Biden"
Obviously she is a loyal Dem. She was doing her job.
Obama won those elections, not Biden, and Obama won them despite Biden, not because of him.
Plus, at the beginning of the debate, Trump took a turn, then Biden. Then on Trump’s second turn, Biden interrupted. He turned on the interruption engine.
So, in summary, Biden has been an annoying dope for a long time. Come on, man!
Trump was probably expecting that Biden routine and may have overcompensated.
Tim Kaine interrupted Mike Pence many times during their 2016 debate.
Ms. Althouse,
I am a politics junkie, through and through. Every single one of your commenters are political junkies to their cores, too, as are you. This also applies to every single pundit writing for news organizations and the talking heads on television. We collectively, politics junkies on the right and the left, should not be the targeted audience for the two debate participants.
78 million people reportedly watched the debate on Tuesday night, I doubt more than 5 million of them give a flying fuck about who won debating points as would scored in an academic staged debate, and all 5 million of them have already picked who they will vote for. The rest, the targeted voters, are simply judging the two participants on body language, physical and mental fitness, and overall vitality- who is more alpha and who is more beta on the stage- in short, who appears to be in command of the moment. Now, most of those other 73 million people have also already made up their minds who they will vote for, but the question is whether they show up to vote at all, plus the smaller number who truly were undecided- their judgments will all based on those criteria I mentioned above.
Biden, in 2012, did exactly the right thing with Paul Ryan. Biden was never a policy wonk capable of debating on the facts and details of anything, demented or not. Had that debate taken place on that level, Ryan would have won easily- so Biden decided to just rough him up relentlessly asserting his dominance at every opportunity. Sure, it looks rude to us who could appreciate a real policy debate, but we won't change our votes at all, nor will we change to not voting in response. To the rest, though, Biden looked like the dominant male at that table, and it was all he needed to do to beat Ryan. Romney, incidentally, tried Ryan's approach in the first debate, and Obama didn't really fight back much and probably lost the debate and some votes for a while (incumbents often try the high ground approach since they are already president- it doesn't help), but Obama learned his lesson (as George W. Bush against Kerry), and reasserted his dominance- and Romney was unable, for whatever reason, to respond to this and lost both of the last two debates badly in opinion (I knew after the second one that Romney was toast).
If you watch Tuesday night's debate with the sound off, what you can't help but notice is that Biden just looks weak, tired, and on death's door pretty much the entire night. With the sound on, it doesn't get better for Biden- Trump was literally heckling Biden the last 70 minutes, and with almost no pushback at all from Biden himself- Wallace did more work to defend Biden than Biden did to assert himself- that is just an awful look for someone trying to become President of the United States. Trump looks and sounds like a 50 year old man, while Biden looks and sounds like an 80 year old man.
I will give Biden some credit, though- he did understand what had to be done Tuesday night, and he actually did give it a go in the first 20 minutes- it was Biden that started the interrupting first- but he wasn't able continue it, nor was he able to meet the escalation that Trump employed. After that first 20 minutes, you could tell Biden was flagging badly. When Biden was finally reduced to the name calling- clown, racist etc.- it reminded me of the kid losing the fist fight on the playground.
Polimath on Twitter linking to Althouse today. I try to have a variety of viewpoints in my twitter feed but they all eventually reference each other.
Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, two of the most earnest and mild-mannered men ever to run for high office, got shivved by Obama, Biden and Crowley. I'm surprised Trump didn't bring a machete to the debate.
Biden is the bully the left is worried about.
Trump preempted Biden.
Here's how SNL memorialized that 2012 VP debate.
Biden was an obnoxious, arrogant, blowhard ass decades before Trump ever came onto the political scene.
By the way -- Biden put a lid on the campaign today before noon.
So I really despise Biden as a politician. He's literally been a terrible liar AND policy maker for over 4 decades on the national stage.
But the way he treated Ryan is the RIGHT way to mock and deride and interrupt the flow in a debate. It may have been annoying, and Ryan handled it well, but that was a well executed strategy even if it ultimately failed.
Trump just looked like he couldn't control himself.
This did remind me to go back and look at the famous candy crowley debate. Holy shit what a circus. I still believe that debate plus "47%" cost Romney that election.
This was exactly what I was talking about during the debate. I remembered this debate, I remembered how horribly I thought Biden was behaving, and I remembered how the press universally praised Biden for showing how strong he was and pushing Ryan around. I definitely thought Trump was trying to do the same thing. Trump's problem, of course, is that he doesn't have the press in his pocket the way Biden did and does.
Joe Biden tried to troll Donald Trump, the alpha-troll. It's like Tommy Tugboat going up against USS New Jersey.
Trump needed to interrupt less only to let Biden hang him-self more. man.
Biden ... as corrupt as Hillary. James Woods said Joe's eyes looked darker at the debate. Contacts? Any ideas out here?
Biden interrupted Trump first. Then Wallace gave the floor to Biden and from that point on Trump attacked.
As is often the case, we are indebted to Ann for taking a step back and recalling the history that the pundits would prefer we forget.
I watched the Ryan/Biden debate and was appalled at the time by Biden's rude, unprofessional and annoying behavior. Biden repeated some of that behavior Tuesday night. With thanks to Chris Wallace, Trump found himself wrestling a pig.
Bay Area Guy, I'm curious. I was so traumatized watching it (snowflake!) that I couldn't remember who started the interrupting/heckling. I've thought of going back to watch it again, but I really can't bear it. (I need to toughen up!)
Is it clearly true that Biden started it? (And yes, I know that sounds like a grade-school-age sibling spat.)
I hated the way Biden treated the very polite, earnest Midwesterner Ryan.
I expect a review of any recorded debate performances that involved Biden would show that that is a signature move of his. Personally, I think of it as sort of a car salesman's "hard sell" where he basically tries to bully you into buying a car. I suspect Joe learned it from his father, who was a used car dealer.
Donald Trump is not Paul Ryan. Trump is Trump, and Trump saw the ultra-polished and polite Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan go down to defeat.
Narcissists and psychopaths like Donald Trump "dissociate . . . a lot . . . because their contact with the world and with others is via a fictitious construct."
"Narcissists and psychopaths never experience reality directly but through a distorting lens . . . . They get rid of any information that challenges their grandiose self-perception and the narrative they had constructed to explicate, excuse and legitimize their antisocial, self-centered and exploitative behaviors, choices and idiosyncrasies."
"In an attempt to compensate for the yawning gaps in memory, narcissists and psychopaths confabulate: They invent plausible "plug ins" and scenarios of how things might, could, or should have plausibly occurred. To outsiders, these fictional stopgaps appear as lies. But the narcissist fervently believes in their reality: He may not actually remember what had happened-but surely it could not have happened any other way!"
Insisting that Trump was correct about the reason for Romney's demise is a drastic oversimplification of the election results. In other words, Trump chose to judge Romney and Ryan as "ultra-polished and polite" and then conflated that these traits resulted in their election defeat - simply because his faulty mind demanded that this speculation become his reality.
This is great, Ann. Yesterday my 88 year old mother and I discussed the debate.
She was horrified by Trump interrupting (and to a lesser degree, by Biden's behavior). I mentioned the Biden-Ryan debate and today you looked back to see what you'd written at the time (and your comments confirmed my recollection)! I sent your post to her, and she said she found it really interesting.
She also commented that she expected the SNL folks to have a good take, and in your comments there's a link to the 2012 skit.
Althouse: One-stop shopping!
The accepted, conventional wisdom, is that Jo Biden 'won' the debate
'won' it SO CONVINCINGLY, that the Biden team has demanded that there be NO other debates
'cause THAT'S What You Do when you find something that scores points....
you DEMAND, that it NEVER be repeated
right? i mean, right? That's what you do, right?
maybe Jo Biden's 'win' isn't quite so obvious after all
hawkeyedjb said...
Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan, two of the most earnest and mild-mannered men ever to run for high office, got shivved by Obama, Biden and Crowley. I'm surprised Trump didn't bring a machete to the debate.
That's one of the things I love about Trump. He fights, no holds barred. I've seen the Republicans lose too much over the years because of that high-minded earnestness.
"Trump saw the ultra-polished and polite Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan go down to defeat."
Yes. And he has been through 4 years of unceasing hostility. But he would still be served well politically by taking it down a notch--perhaps everyone has made up their minds by now, but he needs all the nice women voters he got in 2016, and perhaps a few more.
Joe would be a much better person if he had the shit kicked out of him a few times when he was younger.
For the next debate, Donald Trump should bring an air horn or a whistle on a lanyard. Each time Joe 'the women's hair sniffer' Biden interrupts, blow the air horn or the whistle. Even Joe can be trained not to interrupt. The air horn would be louder, but the whistle on a lanyard might be more effective. Eventually, Joe will associate when Donald reaches for the lanyard, Joe's done something wrong.
Who says old dogs can't learn new tricks?
Scranton Scrapper meets Donnie From Queens in an alley brawl. Biden is a welter weight guy (if that) taking on a heawy weight. Aside from a few gouges in the high and a shot or two below the belt, the welter weight has no chance. But the Scrapper performed as well as a tired senile old guy could be expected to.
Obama beat Romney because of Biden's debate performance? Now do Biden-Palin.
Now you do you, readering, but without the whining and mincing.
Biden started interrupting first.
Biden started the fight.
Trump ended it.
Any predictions for the Pence-Harris debate? I see Pence as being more “Presidential”, Harris continuously interrupting, and the press cheering Harris’ passion, zeal, energy, etc.
In short, Trump, after 16 trimesters of witch hunts, warlock trials, protests, and JournoListic flourish, is the first Republican since Reagan to not kneel, to stand his ground, and proactively respond to their threats and provocations.
Biden looked like he had been embalmed for that debate.
Don't remember substance of that debate, but still think Biden was under the influence of drugs.
Paul Ryan is on the board at Fox News.
They are praising Wallace of course.
What the political class is really upset about is that Trump fought back.
They never care about civility until we fight back.
The people pushing and supporting Biden are garbage people doing garbage things.
When their faces were side by side on the screen, the age / weakness gap was very evident. At some points Biden almost looked skeletal.
Re no more debates, I think they want to avoid Trump pointing out when Biden is not following the progressive playbook and hence “losing the left”!
MartyH said...
Any predictions for the Pence-Harris debate? I see Pence as being more “Presidential”, Harris continuously interrupting, and the press cheering Harris’ passion, zeal, energy, etc.
Certainly hope Pence is quicker on his feet than he seems to be. Saw him briefly a few weeks ago and he did not seem feisty. And, worst of all, he referred, in passing,to Floyds death as murder.
Ann, pong to the earlier ping?
Ha, civility bullshit, indeed. Trump knows. That said, people like doormats. They have an aesthetic and utilitarian appeal. Context matters.
Althouse: One-stop shopping!
A wife, a mother, a teacher, an artist, a historian, a bibliophile, a conservationist, a legal and semantic connoisseur... a well-rounded perspective, and a cruel neutrality to present the facts.
Are Biden's masks absorbent?
Asking for a worried friend.
Narcissists and psychopaths like Donald Trump
It's embarrassing when actual mental health professionals try to diagnose a patient they've never met; it's even more embarrassing when someone who clearly isn't one tries to do it.
Obama beat Romney because of Biden's debate performance?
Obama beat Romney because of Crowley's debate performance.
After watching Paul Ryan get treated like a school boy, it’s why I enjoy Trump’s combative style and willingness to be exactly what the GOP needed.
MartyH said...
Any predictions for the Pence-Harris debate? I see Pence as being more “Presidential”, Harris continuously interrupting, and the press cheering Harris’ passion, zeal, energy, etc.
10/1/20, 12:38 PM
Harris will be the "strong, feisty woman" unless Pence creams her, in which case "sexist Pence disrespects women". They already have the stories written.
N.N said...
In short, Trump, after 16 trimesters of witch hunts, warlock trials, protests, and JournoListic flourish, is the first Republican since Reagan to not kneel, to stand his ground, and proactively respond to their threats and provocations.
How DARE he! He's supposed to grovel! That's what REPUBLICANS are supposed to DO! He's NOT supposed to fight back! BUSH didn't fight back! McCain didn't fight back! ROMNEY didn't fight back!
HOW DARE TRUMP FIGHT BACK!
Lol...
It's WAY past time that the enforced 'civility' demanded by the left be discarded in the same manner they've dumped it. They say they want someone 'Presidential' - guess that means just shut up and let them run all over, right? In the same dignified way Bush put up with years of crap from the press and the left?
The Democrats are making a hard grab for as much power as they can get. I don't want to see this be a 'One Man, One Vote, One Time' election that ushers in Socialism/Communism in the US. I DO think that once installed, Biden, Harris and his handlers won't give up their positions and power. Their insistence that Trump's not going to leave if defeated is projection - THEY wouldn't leave if voted out because the laws do not apply to them.
Or at least they pretend they don't.
I see no reason at all to put Biden in. Results matter - and all he's got are promises and a record of not keeping them.
Readering said...
Obama beat Romney because of Biden's debate performance?
It's true that Biden probably didn't win any votes for their team with his performance but seeing Ryan try to take the high ground in that debate and seeing Romney give in to Candy Crowley's "fact check" got Trump votes. People want someone who is willing to fight for their side and not just give in to be polite.
Narcissists and psychopaths like gadfly "dissociate . . . a lot . . . because their contact with the world and with others is via a fictitious construct."
FIFY
I would love to see the Trump campaign make a supercut video of the Biden-Ryan debate, juxtaposed with the fawning press coverage (then) and the hysterical 'DEMOCRACY DIES IN DARKNESS!!!!11!" reax to Trump acting the same way, now.
Ann must consider herself to be very fortunate not have had to deal with a Joe Biden type who regularly interrupted her lectures with nonsense comments and continually interrupted any student who asked her a question.
The Biden-Trump debate evoked a husband-wife argument where the wife does not allow the husband to get a word in edgewise. Why Trump would choose to play the role of the woman is a mystery.
Trump learns fast. Biden doesn't.
Biden's team knows that.
That is why it is better to declare victory and run home.
I got the feeling that Trump wasn't using his full potential at that debate, leaving some important talking points on the table, while Biden was giving it everything he had.
Biden was universally praised by the left and LLR-left for how he conducted himself during that debate with Paul Ryan.
It was only later we found out that Paul Ryan secretly hated the republican base and adored obama/biden too and wanted them to win.
BUMBLE BEE said...
James Woods said Joe's eyes looked darker at the debate. Contacts? Any ideas out here?
Biden-Bot Mark VII. They still haven't perfected them yet, but they're miles ahead of the Hillary!-Bot Mark I and II.
What?! You think Hunter got all that Chinese money for nothing?!
Chris Wallace asked Trump the same disavow question in 2016. Trump answered forcefully.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1311469297613504512
Romney lost because then as now he was a wimp with absolutely no fire in his belly. Crowley just took an action that pointed that out. to all and sundry. Romney , like Hillary, lost because he was an inadequate candidate.
As many have referenced, when thinking about Trump we should keep in mind Lincoln's statement about Grant: "I can not spare this man. He fights."
Trump needs to call out the "moderator" when he/she starts favoring Biden. Make a big stink about the moderator's cheerleading for the Democrat candidate just like Candy Crowley did to Mitt Romney. Also, call out "the fact checking" - "You were hired to be a moderator, not a fact checker. Do you want to leave your moderator station and stand beside Joe Biden so you can whisper the answers to Joe?"
I think what many people will not be prepared for with the Pence-Harris debate is how unqualified and unready Harris is to be in the spotlight. Remember she is the president in waiting and if the Biden ticket wins will most likely be the President in short order.
Harris is like that tiny, donut, spare wheel they have replaced real spare tires with in most cars. Only to be used to drive 5 mph to get to a gas station or service station so you can get a real tire installed. She is in no way, shape or form ready to be president now or in 20 years.
James Woods said Joe's eyes looked darker at the debate. Contacts? Any ideas out here?
Lasix.
Thank you for revisiting this — I definitely have not forgotten how big of a tool Biden was in that debate, and have disliked him ever since.
Goes around, comes around.
Trump saw the ultra-polished and polite Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan go down to defeat.
Thank god since I was reliably informed Mitt Romney Republicans were going to make The Handmaid's Tale a reality here in America.
Gk1 said...
I think what many people will not be prepared for with the Pence-Harris debate is how unqualified and unready Harris is to be in the spotlight. Remember she is the president in waiting and if the Biden ticket wins will most likely be the President in short order.
Yeah, and we expected Biden to cancel debate or fall asleep or crap his pants.
Harris does not need to know anything. She just needs to repeat party line and lies over and over. Pretty much like Joe did. I expect Harris is quicker with impromptu and practiced comebacks than Pence. Sure do hope I am wrong. Upside is, Pence def more dignified.Odds on Harris looking directly into camera?
Great info. I noticed Biden interrupting Trump at the start and knew Trump was fighting back but didn't realize it was a Biden habit. Also liked the SNL scene referred to in the comments.
Re the Disavowal: I'd like to see more "liberals" disavow and condemn socialists and communists. I remember when Hillary was asked what the chief difference between her "liberalism" and Bernie's socialism. The best she could some up with, instead of something like "socialism is the economics of the stupid, and kills economies as well as people," was something lame like "My proposals are more practical than Sen. Sanders."It reminded me of the Sixties, when student Marxists would, say, hold a dean hostage and burn down a campus, and the "liberal" faculty would either act as cheerleaders or say something wimpy like calling the campus violence "counter-productive."
Romney lost because incumbents without intra-party challengers almost always win. Wilson, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, W, Obama. Trump doing all he can to join Hoover in bucking the trend.
That was then. Norms, like the Constitution. are alive and evolving to meet the present needs of Ds.
Paul Ryan is a gimp.
He sleeps in a box with a few air holes.
He wears the ball gag his Democratical masters gave him.
He's not polite.
He's on the other team.
And at the time, he was praised for it by the media.
(Conversely, if there is significant a intra-party challenge . . . drop-out or defeat . . . Taft-TR, Truman-Kefauver, LBJ-McCarthy, Ford-Reagan, Carter-Teddy, HW-Buchanan. So I despaired when no Republican challenged Trump. Then came his covid response.)
"Chris Wallace asked Trump the same disavow question in 2016. Trump answered forcefully."
-- I have no doubt that segment was going to continue until Trump made a gaffe. I mean, I didn't expect him to serve one up so cleanly, right away, but I don't think we were leaving that line of questioning until they got Trump to "not condemn" something.
"Why Trump would choose to play the role of the woman is a mystery."
-- There's a tag for that here at Althouse!
"After watching Paul Ryan get treated like a school boy, it’s why I enjoy Trump’s combative style and willingness to be exactly what the GOP needed."
-- I told people when Trump entered the race and started picking up steam that he had a chance at the nomination because Republicans were tired of nice guys finishing last. I fully expected Trump to ALSO finish last. But, see. I'm wrong about things a lot.
readering: "So I despaired when no Republican challenged Trump"
LOL
wink wink
readering: "Romney lost because incumbents without intra-party challengers almost always win."
LOL
You are truly a 1 dimensional thinker.
Hey, I wonder if Ross Perot getting about 19% of the vote in 1992 played a part in HW Bush's loss to Clinton?.....
Don't do history/analysis readering. You aren't any good at it.
I have to admit, in a stunning reversal readering has retaken the lead over r/v for Most Inga-like Poster at Althouse.
I must admit that I did not see that coming.
Readering,
Your tears - scheduled for five weeks from now - will make reading your inane comments worth it.
You went back to your 2012 liveblog. Did you go back and watch any of the debate? I assume you didn't, because I just watched the first ten minutes (here) and there's no comparison to what we saw from Trump on Tuesday. Maybe I haven't gotten to the bad stuff yet, but what I've seen so far is a substantive debate between two adults, both of whom have ample opportunity to make their points at length. Even watching Paul Ryan, whom I loathe, makes me nostalgic for a time when people with adults ran the U.S. government.
Please watch the debate yourself, and tell your readers honestly whether it looks like what took place on Tuesday.
The much maligned Sarah Palin steam rolled over Biden in their debate.
Guess I'll have to book mark this page.
What amazes me, Ann, is that you appeared to forget about this during your original remarks on Tuesday's debate. Biden's simpering performance of substance-free japes was uppermost on my mind, and it was indeed a correct response and a fitting comeuppance for him to have President Trump fold it until it was all corners and jam it right back where it came from.
Tears! Have to book mark this.
Ann Althouse said...
"Trump is Trump, and Trump saw the ultra-polished and polite Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan go down to defeat."
Quoting the famous saying, politics ain't beanbag. Mitt had Obama on the ropes after the first debate. No offense to the genteel of Wisconsin, but Paul Ryan was the wrong choice for veep; I said that at the time he was selected as the running mate. But Mitt got taken out by the Candy Crowley moment and was never the same afterward, and Ryan looked young and inexperienced and a little bit too scripted against ol' Irish Catholic Joe.
Trump IS Trump. He's more Hades than Hercules, but he knows how the game is played.
I’m not taking credit but I did recommend this comparison and posted in the debate thread that Trump’s tactics “did to Biden what Biden did to Ryan” eight years ago. So this whole post warms my heart.
Now I'm definitely book marking.
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