What did Trump have to do with that? Is he supposed to stand back and say nothing? His antagonists take whatever they can get, every single day, and spin it against him. Are they "stoking" a "war"? No, they're just doing their normal thing, plying their trade, writing columns like "Trump’s Twitter feed reads like a local crime blotter as he stokes a culture war" by Josh Dawsey in The Washington Post. Josh Dawsey is writing that and Trump is doing his tweets, taking the material of the day, and spinning it into an argument for his side.
Of course, he's going to improve his political standing by crying out against "the two Anarchists who threw paint on the magnificent George Washington Statue in Manhattan" and the rest of the violence toward inanimate objects. He sees and takes the advantage of embracing and extolling the icons in this time of iconoclasm.
Dawsey quotes the presidential historian Douglas Brinkley:
"His argument is Main Street values against a crazy wave of anarchy. A lot will depend on how inflamed the monument issue gets. Trump has a vested issue in this. He’s actually cheering the anarchists on, daring them to take more down."He’s actually cheering the anarchists on... You see how that works (in the mind of the eminent historian)? Because Trump speaks out against the destruction and some people hate Trump, they're inspired to do more destruction. It's a way to get Trump. And you see the rank perversity of the implicit argument: Don't speak out against the destructiveness you oppose, because it will only inflame the destroyers, and they will do more destruction.
But look more closely: This dynamic of Trump taking advantage of the iconoclasm and the iconoclasts ramping up their destruction might hurt the moderate Democrats who are trying to win the 2020 elections. It's not a good issue for them, and hanging back and waiting for it to die down and go away on its own isn't working.
ADDED: I'm reading the Wikipedia page for Douglas Brinkley:
[D]uring the 2013 inauguration coverage, CNN referred to him as "a man who knows more about the presidency than just about any human being alive." In contrast, in 2006, historian Wilfred McClay in the New York Sun appraised Brinkley's scholarship as one that has failed to "put forward a single memorable idea, a single original analysis, or a single lapidary phrase." Similarly, author Bill Bryson characterized Brinkley as "a minor American academic and sometime critic whose powers of observation and generosity of spirit would fit comfortably into a proton and still leave room for an echo."
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73 comments:
I’m not sure if it will work this time but it does harken back to that well worn phrase:
“This is how you get Trump”
Ironically, it's Joe Biden who has the most to gain by verbally attacking the vandals and rioters.
It could be exactly what he needs to persuade middle-of-the-road swing voters that he can be trusted to bring us back to the normalcy that we're all craving after lockdowns and riots.
It's telling that he can't do it.
"Trump has a vested issue in this. He’s actually cheering the anarchists on, daring them to take more down."
Stoking, fanning, bellowing as if to get more of what he decries. So he can decry it some more? And why do the statue topplers topple statues other than to be noticed and heard? The act is a form of speech, no? Like burning the flag.
If Trump is successful at increasing the opposition and disgust of mainstream Americans at the statue tumblers, will the tumblers cease tumbling, because they are losing the argument, or take down more?
Historian Douglas Brinkley makes a too clever by half argument designed to prove Trump is the bad guy.
The writers didn’t use the word “pounce” so they’re getting more creative.
The Mayor of NYC is literally the Penguin. The mob outside City Hall appears to be opponents making demands, but they are in fact the Penguin’s hirelings helping him to carry out his extortion plots.
The mobs are hirelings of the Democratic Party. There are no moderate Democrats. They are all communists.
Democracy Dies in Darkness!
The focus groups said it would work- If we tie up Soros funded violence with black racial tension it will help to lessen the sting of the long term trend of urban blacks moving towards Republicans and hasten the move of more suburban whites moving left.
Polling hasn't worked out that way. Time to blame it on Trump and move on. Maybe the climate thing again? Is it too late to impeach him one more time?
Pointing out the unpopular things that your political opponents do is now called 'stoking'. All righty then.
Joe Biden said yesterday that the confederate statues can come down, but Washington and Lincoln must be protected. So let's hear what his big "How would you do that" plan is.
Republicans pounce!
It’s not the looting, rioting, or lawlessness that bothers the Dems.
It’s that Trump might benefit.
The riots were a huge mistake. The leftist were trying to create a Kent State and were expecting lots of deplorables to show up that could be depicted as white supremacists. Trump didn't take the bait and its impossible to betray a black guy shooting a passing motorist as a white supremacist, no matter how hard the MSM tries. Also, marching into residential areas was a huge misstep. Now all the white suburban moms who say they are going to vote for Biden are worrying about their house getting burned down. So, all they have left is trying to blame Trump for the carnage.
This is that dangerous and subtle perversion of freedom of speech again - the "look what you made me do" defense of the abuser. The "just keep quiet, you don't want to draw his attention" defense of the hostage. Yes, you're free to speak, but if your speech p*sses someone off, why, that person is just as free to break the law in response - and is now justified, because of your speech.
Wasn't the rule that only if your speech incited, exhorted, people to take violent action were you responsible for that violence? I hate this new world. I am not a hostage.
"You know what's funny? The whole idea of progressivism is that society is constantly improving towards perfection (that's the "progress" part), but today's progressives seem to only be offering a future of perpetual discontent, tribalism, and penance for past injustice. It doesn't sound "progressive" at all - rather an unhappy stasis." -Katrina Prescott
Some lady in Queens gave it hard to the Mayor at a appearance he made regarding fixing sidewalks. Not all NYers are commies.
THEOLDMAN
There are now different versions of the argument that Trump pisses many people off so much, it is bad for the country for him to stick around. Kaus is depending on the idea that there will be less divisiveness (or the Dems will be less united) if Trump steps aside. Supposedly, for some, he is just as responsible for the violent people doing bad things as they are themselves. Somehow this hinges on the idea that even if Trump is not a racist, etc. (they think he is, I don't), he enables racists or is co-dependent or something; tearing down racist statues is anti-Trump etc. Of course this becomes incoherent.
Althouse, did you not know that when Democrats do bad things and Republicans point out that Democrats do bad things, the story is NEVER about the Democrats doing bad things, the story is that REPUBLICANS POUNCE!
This has been a stock journolist behavior since at least Reagan, maybe Nixon.
Brinkley is a leftist first and always.
"American academic and sometime critic whose powers of observation and generosity of spirit would fit comfortably into a proton and still leave room for an echo."
Mask up and slather on the hand sanitizer because that is a sick burn.
"It strikes me as unfair to say that he's "stoking" any kind of "war,""
Right, but keep it simple: he's just joining the ongoing war, one of the few people fighting publicly on our behalf.
"the iconoclasts ramping up their destruction might hurt the moderate Democrats"
Who they? Any names? Do any of these "moderate" Dems ever deviate from the party line?
They hauled out Douglas Brinkley against Bush, too. I remember him rowing a boat during Katrina.
I just want people to recognize what they are doing to Trump has been done before. Amped up for the current moment. And it will be amped up again if there is another R President. Because the media activists only want Democrats.
How many shootings were there in the "Summer of Love" "Are you afraid of Democracy" CHAZ/CHAD. I can't believe that all isn't a bigger news story than Trump pouncing on something.
I wonder what caused Bryson to go off on Brinkley? The only work of Brinkley that I have ever read is "The Great Deluge: Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans, and the Mississippi Gulf Coast" which I found satisfying for the work of a contemporary historian. I have read a lot of Bill Bryson, and he is a noted Anglophile, which might be a clue. Can anyone provide context?
I read this and I think, Hmm...his opponents are so bad that even Trump at his worst will win this thing.
Also, marching into residential areas was a huge misstep. Now all the white suburban moms who say they are going to vote for Biden are worrying about their house getting burned down.
Suburban white women are radical as long as it stays in the black zone. I agree. Too bad that mansion of the two PI lawyers was so extravagant. A nice middle class house would be a better image. The Seattle Mayor's place is also a mansion. Beverly Hills is a dump compared to those Democrat Mayor's mansions.
What a terrific insult by Bryson! I love that one and our reminds me why I like his books.
In grade school I remember a music teacher scolding me, do you know what people like you are called? Iconoclasts. I do not remember the remark that provoked it, however, so it remains a mystery. It's probably just as well. Somebody would dig it up today.
The music teacher turned out to be an Oberlin graduate, but that would have been the old academic Oberlin, and not the modern woke one.
It's not a war. It's talking. It's the peaceful transfer of self-governing power, albeit through stupidy, deceit and the women's vote.
My experience of eminent historians is that they are clueless and understand nothing about the present. Makes me wonder if they understand anything about the past. Strange, no?
At some point the riots will burn out and so will coronavirus. At that point the US will need a President who understands finance and economics. From 2017 through last year Trump’s policies produced an economy with record low unemployment, especially among minorities. Is there any Democrat that any of us can trust to oversee the rebuilding? Certainly not Joe Biden!
Brinkley had all the gravitas of a girl weather reporter. Sideburns don't contain braincells.
Bryson is a national treasure.
How did it come to pass that we're discussing the political pros and cons of vandalizing statues of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln?
I agree. Too bad that mansion of the two PI lawyers was so extravagant. A nice middle class house would be a better image.
It's not a McMansion. My understanding is they bought the historic home at a depressed price decades ago after it had fallen into severe disrepair and worked for years lovingly restoring it as part of a revitalization of the neighborhood.
Horace Greely, earlier in life, was an abolitionist. After the Civil War, he took the position that it was more important to reintegrate white southerners than southern blacks into the union. He opposed Reconstruction and was against Grant's policies in that regard....I presume the statue of him down by City Hall is to honor his abolitionist policies, but what's to keep the protesters from tearing it down because of his later views? Who gets to say what part of a man's work a statue memorializes?
...and you people criticize me for egging on the deplorables that keep threatening violent action. I guess it depends on who's Ox is being trolled.
I'm seeing a complete disconnected.
Yes, it may help the Trump campaign, but society is edging towards collapse. This is no different than "let no crisis go to waste."
The Trump campaign is a hot mess. I wonder why-
Jonathan Swan
@jonathanvswan
Scoop: Kushner changes top campaign staff
clint said...
Ironically, it's Joe Biden who has the most to gain by verbally attacking the vandals and rioters.
It could be exactly what he needs to persuade middle-of-the-road swing voters that he can be trusted to bring us back to the normalcy that we're all craving after lockdowns and riots.
It's telling that he can't do it.
He's trying. I've seen a couple of his campaign spots where he's doing a voice over that consists of a lot of rhetoric about "not being divided by hate" and "being President of all of us, not just of the people that elected you". The problem is the visual that underpins the hate quote is a bunch of young, clean cut, white guys and the visual that underpins the "all of us" quote consists of pictures of Joe hugging black people.
The Dems are so stuck in their bubble that they can't even see how bad this looks to a someone who wasn't going to vote for them anyway and I can imagine how frightening it looks to someone who's undecided.
They want Trump to sit there and take the lies they spew, like Romney, Bush and McCain did. I wish Trump would let his surrogates like the Press Sec do his bidding rather than oversaturate Twitter with stuff.
This and other issues will not be debated between Biden and Trump.
There will be no debates because OrangeManBad.
"Trump’s Twitter feed reads like a local crime blotter as he stokes a culture war" by Josh Dawsey in The Washington Post. Josh Dawsey is writing that and Trump is doing his tweets, taking the material of the day, and spinning it into an argument for his side.
Dawsey's columns read like a re-written press release from the Dem party. I could say that for so much that is seen in the Wash Post/ NYT / MSM.
"In the first 28 days in June, the number of murders was up 83% compared with numbers from the same period in 2019, Chicago Police Department statistics show. And the number of arrests was down 55%, street stops fell by 74% and traffic stops dropped by 86%."
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/6/30/21308935/chicago-police-activity-slowed-june-murder-rise-fop-union-blames-morale-john-catanzara
Tina Trent@8:43AM/
Were it not for my lovely wife of 42 yrs I'd propose marriage in a nano-second.(It's a "music of the [philosophical] spheres" kinda thing. :) )
Michael K said:
"Too bad that mansion of the two PI lawyers was so extravagant. A nice middle class house would be a better image."
Conversely, people might think 'If this rich lawyer and his wife aren't safe inside their mansion, what chance do I have against the mob? I don't live in a gated community and I don't have private security. Better buy a gun."
The Josh Dawseys of the world are mostly just enraged that Trump is his own medium, doesn't need the WaPo, and doesn't much care what Josh and his pals think. How dare he! Doesn't he understand how important they are? So he has his name on luxury hotels all over the world, dominated reality television for years, and got himself elected President of the United States - why doesn't he kowtow?
"It strikes me as unfair to say that he's "stoking" any kind of "war," when the protests and attendant violence arose out of police actions in particular cities (cities run by Democrats)."
The protests and attendant violence arose out of a years-long campaign, conducted by people intent upon the destruction of American society. The fact that a thug died of a drug overdose in police custody was a welcome opportunity to those persons, but hardly a proximate cause. In a country of 300 million, people will die in police custody from time to time. I am sure BLM is well aware of that, and assumed a pretext could be found as soon as the pallets of bricks were ready.
"It strikes me as unfair to say that he's 'stoking' any kind of 'war,’ "
Buwaya has explained this many times. It’s not about fairness, it’s about winning. It’s pure propaganda. It’s why sane people don’t look to the WaPo for news. Recently the New York Times fell to the same sickness. It used to be better too. They both used to be great newspapers, but they have been gutted and people who want to control your life are wearing the skin.
"stupidy, deceit and the women's vote.”
Didn’t Oberlin teach you about redundant phrases?
“... whose powers of observation and generosity of spirit would fit comfortably into a proton and still leave room for an echo."
Not to belabor the obvious or to impose on Bryson’s wit, but this describes virtually every prominent Democrat, left-wing journalist and their pet academicians in the public eye today.
Love love love Bill Bryson.
My experience of eminent historians is quite mixed, just like my experience of normal people.
The wiser historians (among whom I include myself) know that the cost of studying and understanding the past is that some present things must go ignored and uncommented on.
Narr
How come the MSM only ever ask historians about the future?
Wonderful put down from Bill Bryson, one of my favorite writers.
Why did the democrats and media ever think this would be a good look to encourage riots? Especially since they no longer are in control of events and are now looking on haplessly as their blue cities burn to the ground.
I think they thought they could create another Charlottesville spectacle to excite their flagging base but this time no J.Crew "nazis" carrying tiki torches showed up. We are week 3 into this and now everyone is tired of their shit in record time. The tell it's over is them now trying to slink away and blame Trump.
Shorter Democrats:
"It's just this damn war and that lying son of a bitch Trump."
"the iconoclasts ramping up their destruction might hurt the moderate Democrats who are trying to win the 2020 elections"
That's why they are doing it now. If you oppose the destruction, vote for Biden and the moderate Democrats. Reelecting Trump will serve to usher in socialism.
Howard wrote:
"...and you people criticize me for egging on the deplorables that keep threatening violent action. I guess it depends on who's Ox is being trolled."
LOL, Howard- way to self-manipulate.
Accusing Trump of "stoking the culture war" is a lot like Hitler blaming Britain and France for starting World War 2 after he invaded Poland despite their public treaty guarantees that made their response clear.
Flack Trump is getting for high lighting crime issue in Blue Cities shows he’s over the target.
Crime is an excellent issue to go after the Black Vote.
Showing that All Black Lives Matters.
Chicago mayor is using the Race Card To deflect, but the fact is the Murder rate is up. Trump sent a letter to her and the Governor highlighting this.
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2020/06/leadership-lessons.html?m=1
And murder / shooting rates in blue cities will be getting worse. Police are demoralized, feel under attack, and not supported.
tim in vermont: "Didn’t Oberlin teach you about redundant phrases?"
Yes, and more than once.
William: "How did it come to pass that we're discussing the political pros and cons of vandalizing statues of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln?"
Because Howard and his Heroes needed to quickly advance the conversation beyond their earlier transparent lies that this was really about the Confederacy.
Lefties: The protesters are completely morally and ethically justified to take their anger to the streets and create violence to enact far left radical change to fundamentally alter the nature of the republic and the entire democrat party stands behind them and respects them and lauds them!!!
Also Lefties: And they are only doing it because Trump eggs them on.
This is nothing more than Inga Boogaloo "Theory" Writ Academically Large.
To answer the question what got Bryson talking about Douglas Brinkley.
The book is The Road to Little Dribbling (pp. 167-168), which is basically about traveling around Britain. He begins Chapter 12 — Cornwall — with a list of the 10 things he dislikes (and everyone is entitled to having 10 things they dislike without explaining. I don't want to spoil his list by copying the whole thing. Go buy the book, but here's a taste:
"... All pigeons everywhere, at all times./Lawyers, too./Douglas Brinkley, a minor academic and sometime book reviewer whose powers of observation and generosity of spirit would fit comfortably into a proton and still leave room for an echo./Color names like taupe and teal that don’t mean anything./Saying that you are going to “reach out” to someone when what you mean is that you are going to call or get in touch with... /Nebraska./Mispronouncing “buoy.” The thing that floats in a navigation channel is not a “boo-ee.” It’s a “boy.” Think about it. Would you call something that floats “boo-ee-ant”?... "
While I have disagreements about Bryson, if it came down to believing him versus Brinkley, I'll stand with him.
As for the three-year-long tantrum against Trump, remember who the people are who are leading it: the internationalists, the open borders crowd, Silicon Valley, the longtime Democrat bureaucrats, the Democrats, and the Republicans who apologize for them and support them.
These are the people whose rice bowls are threatened by Trump, which is why we need to re-elect him.
Remember, the majority of Democrats voted for Bernie, and a majority of Republicans voted for Trump. In essence, they were voting "none of the above." They were sick of what the uniparty was doing to this country, and they wanted to throw a monkey wrench into the machine.
If you vote for Biden, you're letting them win. Enjoy your higher taxes and hobbled economy!
Lets face it, this kind of thinking is "going around" (like a virus) on the insane left (which is all of it):
James Lindsay, anti-revolutionary@ConceptualJames·Jun 30
Saw an essay last night, by a Critical Theorist at the Sorbonne, arguing Wokeness is the result of the CIA learning postmodernism and pushing it into academia so the left would look stupid and be discredited so that the right wing could do more capitalist imperialism.
My understanding is they bought the historic home at a depressed price decades ago after it had fallen into severe disrepair and worked for years lovingly restoring it as part of a revitalization of the neighborhood.
Fair enough but "revitalization" doesn't seem to be working that well.
Ann Althouse: Would you call something that floats “boo-ee-ant”?
Did you know you can determine the sex of an ant by putting it in water?
If it sinks, girl ant.
If it floats, boy ant.
"Cheering someone on" is not synonymous with "egging someone on".
Unless you're a professional journalist with an agenda to push.
My understanding is they bought the historic home at a depressed price decades ago after it had fallen into severe disrepair and worked for years lovingly restoring it as part of a revitalization of the neighborhood.
I recall the story of a White family that bought and refurbished a decrepit old mansion in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago, back on the 70's. The turn of the century mansion has been vacant for some time in the now predominantly Black neighborhood.
After several home invasions and assaults on their kids, they moved to the predominantly White suburbs, presumably because they are White Supremacists.
Gk1 said...
Why did the democrats and media ever think this would be a good look to encourage riots? Especially since they no longer are in control of events and are now looking on haplessly as their blue cities burn to the ground.
They've got their heads so far up their own asses that they've lost touch with reality? Also, I doubt it helps that the party leadership is pushing 80, while the rank and file all seem to be under 30.
I recommended Bryson long ago to some (self-declared Southerner) liberal ACWABAWS newsgroup friends.
One of them grabbed a Bryson book and chanced upon the author asking someone in Alabama for some information and wisecracking that "you could drive a long way in Alabama before running into someone who knows what [forgotten term] means."
Boy that set 'em off. How dare that guy mock a rural Southern dumbass!
My own mind was freed of Touchy Southerner Syndrome by the great HLM. "Sahara of the Bozart" would have been required reading in any proper Southern school; I guess I should be glad that there were any Mencken books in the school and public libraries at all-- I'm sure that has changed.
Narr
(Bu's right again)
I've never understood the popularity of Brinkley, he's one of these really dumb smart guys.
Thanks Ann! I did read that book while visiting the UK a couple summers ago. Lacking an idetic memory, what’s left of my mind came up with “something related to Anglophilia”. I still wonder what set him off.
>>I recall the story of a White family that bought and refurbished a decrepit old mansion in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago, back on the 70's.
I saw Austin "change," as we used to say, firsthand in the late 60's and early 70's. The family of one of my high school friends lived about a block east of Central and a couple blocks north of Chicago. I used to take the Lake Street el out to Central, then walk half a mile or so to their house. Last time I was there was probably around '73 or '74, but no longer taking the el. Lost touch with him a long time ago (though our 50th reunion is coming up next year, so who knows?), but his parents were among the few who stayed on and, last I heard, got along with their new neighbors (that was briefly true of my parents, but I won't digress). My guess is that they're no longer with us.
Somewhat similar story about a current friend who grew up in Maywood, in the same general area but outside the city and a bit south and a bit further west. Father died a few years ago and mother finally moved to some sort of assisted living a year or two ago. Until then, apparently got along fine.
But I think those areas weren't/aren't as bad as Englewood/West Englewood, where I grew up on the South Side. Even so, I've seen stories about a few old-time residents who get along fine, but the gang violence is out of sight there, which is the epicenter of the current violence in Chicago.
--gpm
Narr said:... z’The wiser historians (among whom I include myself) know that the cost of studying and understanding the past is that some present things must go ignored and uncommented on.z’
Paul Fussell expressed that well in his great essay, “Thank God for the Atomic Bomb”: “Understanding the past requires pretending you don’t know the present.”
Unfortunately too many of the current generation did not learn that lesson.
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