I ran into Jerry Nadler in DC and asked him to disavow the Antifa violence/rioting in Portland.— Essential Fleccas 🇺🇸 (@fleccas) July 27, 2020
His response?
“THATS A MYTH” pic.twitter.com/veImyE2rju
I can't tell what he's calling a myth — maybe only the role of Antifa — but he sure scurried out of there. Did not want to discuss any details.
He calls it "a myth spread that's being spread only in Washington D.C." That's plainly untrue.
IN THE COMMENTS: Earnest Prole said:
A month ago you were saying it was “horrible” to hold Antifa responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests, and now you’re mocking Jerry Nadler?I appreciate that he provided a link to my June 22nd post, but let's take a close look at exactly what I said, because there is absolutely no contradiction. It begins with a quote from the WaPo "Fact Checker":
"There has not yet been a single confirmed case in which someone who self-identifies as antifa led violent acts at any of the protests across the country. The president and his administration have placed an outsize burden of blame on antifa, without waiting for arrest data and completed investigations. This is not the first time Trump has pointed to antifa as a shadowy nemesis. But the misinformation created by his continued insistence of antifa’s involvement has led to more chaos and violence in an already turbulent moment. As always, the burden of proof rests with the speaker — and the administration has provided no evidence, only assertions that it has evidence. Trump earns Four Pinocchios."I go on to connect that to the recent problem at the NYT and quote an earlier post of mine:
Write Meg Kelly and Elyse Samuels at the Washington Post "Fact Checker," addressing the many statements by Trump that the Black Lives Matter protests involve antifa.
This, by the way, was also the problem the NYT had with the Tom Cotton op-ed. As I said when the NYT first expressed regret for publishing the piece:You see my use of the word "horrible." Earnest Prole wrongly paraphrased me as saying "it was 'horrible' to hold Antifa responsible." I clearly said that I didn't know one way or the other and I wanted the journalists and the politicians to focus on getting the facts. It's not horrible to hold Antifa responsible if Antifa is responsible.
A particular problem with Cotton's piece was that it said "left-wing radicals like antifa infiltrating protest marches to exploit Floyd’s death for their own anarchic purposes," but the NYT has not yet reported that the violent element was antifa. Its news story on June 1 had said "conservative commentators are asserting with little evidence that antifa, the far-left anti-fascism activist movement coordinates the riots and looting."I added: "Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?"
Whether Cotton was right or wrong about the facts, there is a problem with factual assertions in op-eds. I've written op-eds for the NYT, and it was with a very short deadline and I was trusted to get the facts in order. I don't know how much the Times intends to change its process, but I assume it wants and needs to have some distance between itself and the writers it brings in from the outside to give a hot take on a breaking controversial story.
I'm mildly glad to see the WaPo Fact Checker addressing this topic, but it's pathetic that this basic level of journalistic inquiry is coming so late. It is, however, horrible that Trump (and Cotton) have spread this meme. Maybe they are right and the Fact Checker is wrong, but it's not enough to luck out in the end and have said something that turns out to be the truth. We should care about the truth for the sake of truth and care about it all along. There's so little of that these days.
In this post today, I said "I can't tell what [Nadler is] calling a myth — maybe only the role of Antifa...." I'm still showing you that I don't know who is doing the violence. The interview in the clip is cut off. I'd like to see the whole thing. Is Nadler denying that there is violence in Portland? It's very weird to say that, so I'm inclined to guess that he was only saying that it's a myth to say it's Antifa. Now, he's still plainly wrong — as I said above — to say that it's only in Washington that people are saying the violent element in the protests is Antifa.
So I'm completely consistent with my June 22nd statement. I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa? Where is the investigative journalism? Are there peaceful protesters who deserve recognition for their dedication to nonviolence, whose cause is undermined by a separate set of people? I still don't know. I would like Nadler to issue a clear statement telling us what he knows and what he believes is going on.
Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?
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254 comments:
1 – 200 of 254 Newer› Newest»the Scary thing is: LOTS of democrats will Believe Jerry Nadler
the Scarier this is: Jerry Nadler Probably Believes Jerry Nadler
Typical Democrat.
Nancy told him what the truth is and he parrots it.
It’s conventional wisdom among the leftists on my twitter feed that the protests are completely peaceful and all (that’s right, all) the violence is being committed by right-wing agitators coordinating with the Trump administration to discredit the protests and put Democratic cities under Federal control.
When you hear the things people believe, it can be hard to maintain faith in reasonable discourse as a valid approach to ending this crisis.
Better than a nadless masker.
The fact that questioner got so close without a mask- and that Nadler isn't wearing one, that disgusting Hutt- is amusing in its own right. Still, I knew Nadler would buy in to the most gross and shameless lies possible. I mean, you literally don't have to look past the surface identity, even if you don't believe in physiognomy.
The local news describes the demonstrations in the PNW as "chaotic".
I'm sorry that the mask issue (which is secondary -- though being without a mask in public is a violation of a mayoral order (is that a law?) Mayor's Order 2020-080: Wearing of Masks in the District of Columbia To Prevent the Spread of COVID-19
The important part of this story is that a leading Democrat denies that there is civil unrest in Portland, or denies that the unrest is caused by antifa, or seems to believe that this is not an important issue.
Our ruling class.
Is he lying, or is he that clueless? Does it matter?
These are the same voters that brought us Warren Wilhelm and the Cuomo family, right?
A month ago you were saying it was “horrible” to hold Antifa responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests, and now you’re mocking Jerry Nadler? One word: chutzpah.
It is remarkable to watch what the Dem/Media machine will do to make amends for letting Trump be elected four years ago.
As for masks, this is Nadler. There are pictures of Cuomo in Georgia with no mask, and pictures of Fauci at the baseball game with his mask pulled down talking to a friend. What do they really believe, and what are they making us do?
Antifa violence sure wasn’t a myth in Austin this weekend. Protest march engulfs a car on Congress Ave. Car wants to get out of there is blocked by crowd and honks horn. Crowd rushes to surround car. Including a protester carrying an AK-47 who points it at the driver. Driver shoots AK-47 guy five times. Crowd runs for it. Someone in crowd fires three shots at fleeing car. Everyone, including driver, calls 911. Protesters subsequently cry and whine for police.
Keep your heads buried in the sand....This is how the career politicians handle ALL of our problems.
Cui Bono? Shameless lying in the face of such violence is a hallmark of the Democrat plan for America. Plan accordingly.
The DNC/media has blacked out all coverage of the riots...wait, what? What did President Trump do? Oh yea, told his Federal Police to enforce the law to protect Federal Property...and the dnc/media was forced to broadcast the violence in an attempt to make the President of the United States look bad. Anybody want to tell the President how he should be acting more Presidential and be careful not to make enemies of City and State politicians? Stable Genius in action. Forcing the dnc/media to report stuff they are trying to avoid. Even if you are aware of the Presidents tactic, they are so subtle, you don't realize what he's up to.
But, he has done this with amazing dexterity and finesse. Just enough to force the dnc/media to cover, but far short to giving the idiot rioters (well, their handlers) a "Kent State" moment.
If Nad-less gets his news from the lamestream, Portland is still just weird. Otherwise he is a lying sack of shit.
He's part of the democrat lockstep that is what you get when you vote for democrats.
Jerry Nadler. Hand picked by the Pelosi, and her advisors, to run the Sham-peachment. Think about that. From within the ranks of Democrat seasoned politicians, one of the very best to achieve a critical goal, emerges Jerry Nadler.
Worst political class in decades. The absolute worst. Don't think the Dems have the market cornered on terrible leadership, the Republicans match them
When antifa was the greatest generation since the Greatest Generation, storming the beaches of Normandy to fight the facists, every dem, including Nadler were publicly praising their heroism.
But, that was 2017.
Now, they don't exist. Well, sometimes they do, but it's just a couple guys walking down the street and decided to attack Americans. No organization, no planning. Just like Benghazi.
Or, sometimes they do exist, but only to intensify the peace at protests. Just remember, intense peace was not necessary until Trump sent in stormtroopers and mercenaries. All the media says so.
I guess we're right back to storming the beaches of Normandy.
DC mayor issues order requiring masks outside home
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dc-mayor-issues-order-requiring-masks-outside-home/ar-BB173WAH
I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa?
Why of course not! Antifa, like the mob, does not exist.
The violence is clearly organized and attacks are coordinated. Someone is coordinating and financing the violence. Fireworks, power tools, projectiles, leaf blowers, and all cost money and don’t show up in the quantities deployed by happenstance. Wonder why the DNC-Media complex doesn’t want you to know who is doing this. Fascinating coincidence of incurious Press and local authorities lacking a clue, isn’t it?
Purposeful political violence should disturb every American. Why does it continue?
Andy Ngo is doing the investigative journalism. He recently wrote in the New York Post:
“And that’s what people need to know about Antifa. They don’t make demands because that’s working within “the system.” Their unambiguous goal is to destroy all American institutions and then the country itself. When they spray-paint or shout, “Burn it down,” they really mean it.
The Antifa ideology propagated in extremist zines, booklets and Web sites say the US is so fundamentally wicked that no amount of reform can fix it — it must be abolished. They see law enforcement and military as the bulwark between them and their goal.”
Nadler is an inveterate weasel.
The peaceful protesters deserve blame for their idiocy. The violence is merely a media strategy.
It is, however, horrible that Trump (and Cotton) have spread this meme. Maybe they are right and the Fact Checker is wrong,
One can quibble about what is required to prove leadership in a riot, but it was always plain from the video and news reports, even at that time, that antifa was involved in the violence.
The media is investing much more effort trying to convince the public that there is no violence by labeling the violence as "peaceful". That alone should be a clue that the media is pretty sure they know whom is doing the violence and it wouldn't be good for their tribe to reveal it (i.e. the left).
There is no such thing as peaceful looting, arson, assault, or murder. Normally the media would try to pin this on some right-wing group, but since nobody on the right seems to be obliging the role of stooge this time, the media has instead gone to lying about the objective nature of what's going on. Even if they did find out who is behind the violence, would you believe them at this point? Should you?
"Andy Ngo is doing the investigative journalism. He recently wrote in the New York Post...."
What you're quoting is a person making assertions about what other people believe. What are the sources of his information? That quote doesn't read like serious investigative journalism. If you've got something substantial, provide links.
The reason you don't know, Professor Emeritus, is the the journalists are on the side of the rioters. Its the Resistance, you know.
This is why Hillary Clinton's action after the election are so horrible. She gas destroyed our culture of peaceful transition of power and loyal opposition.
Rhhardin is right. The Trumpian juggernaut stormtroopen violence against mom's dad's nurses and veterans is good TV to keep his Loyalists salivating whilst distracting them from the Covid-19 scourge he purposefully ignited on the Red States.
Maybe we need to develop an antifa test. Like our COVID tests. At present Drs Trump and Cotton are diagnosing antifa based on the presenting symptoms. Surely there's a more scientific way.
I'm not sure I agree with the complaint. Antifa is a movement; I don't know if it needs to have official members, or if the members can be clearly identified. These are the thugs at the protests whose goal is overthrowing civilization, not fixing black problems.
It reminds me of the discussion we used to have about whether a particular lone terrorist was a member of Al Qaeda or whichever Muslim hate group, or (the preference of the media) he was a "lone wolf" who illustrates the need for gun control. The terrorist was part of a movement that encourages that kind of terrorism, and that is true whether or not he signed up.
I agree that it would be good to have move reporting on who is burning down the federal buildings etc. But perhaps the fact that they are burning down federal buildings is itself enough evidence.
According to Nadler, the salad bar is also a myth.
Journalism that could not be done today: "NBC Bay Area sat down with several militant Antifa protesters, who spoke about their ideals, their concerns with the current state of the nation, and what they see as their legitimate use of violence."
But who knows, perhaps Antifa has since converted to nonviolence.
Are there peaceful protesters who deserve recognition for their dedication to nonviolence, whose cause is undermined by a separate set of people?
It only takes a bit of history on the details of protests in the US to recognize those are not mutually exclusive groups. I suppose you could categorized the paid/unpaid or a group of insiders what incites the emotional hoi polloi...
It doesn't take too much investigating outside NYT and WaPo to recognize there's clearly a coordinated, organized and well funded group with the intention of inciting violence amongst the non paid protesters and to draw out the 'peaceful' protesters. They're the fresh faced white people changing out the plates on the stolen car in the Minneapolis suburban neighborhood, who know exactly where the stacks of bricks were placed, which police cars we can motivate others to burn...
I think if people like Ann are motivated to try and separate the two as if they deserve a moral distinction, the organized instigators can claim a victory.
Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?
How can you fucking ask this question at a time when they are literally running rampant in our cities? Are you going to ask if BLM exists next?
Is the KKK a shibboleth of the Left?
What you're quoting is a person making assertions about what other people believe.
How is that any different than 'reporting' at WaPo or NYT on any given day they're rolling out propaganda.
'Anonymous sources say...', as they say.
The revolution will not be televised
--The Lyin' MSM
There are none so blind as those who will not see
Althouse wrote:
What you're quoting is a person making assertions about what other people believe. What are the sources of his information? That quote doesn't read like serious investigative journalism. If you've got something substantial, provide links.
7/27/20, 7:24 AM
Ann, check out Ngo's Twitter feed. He provides video of what is going on in Seattle and Portland. Some of the footage is shot by him (at danger to himself, since Seattle antifa knows and hates him), some by others. It's direct investigative reporting, without the WaPo/NYT filter. I have far more faith in what he says than the dreck you post from "respectable" media outlets intent on minimizing the destruction.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo
It reminds me of the discussion we used to have about whether a particular lone terrorist was a member of Al Qaeda or whichever Muslim hate group
Me, too. The terrorists reveled in the idea their targets were arguing about their existence because thy lacked spiffy uniforms and banner men carrying their sigil...
What you're quoting is a person making assertions about what other people believe.
We just impeached a President based on less...
Ann, seems like you are clouding things over a word, Antifa.
Can we at least admit that these agitators and people dressed in black are of "The Left?" or is that too much?
The indisputable proof that they are of the Left is that NONE of the Left politicians have been asked by our "press" to DISAVOW this violence. Because to do so may splinter away some of their CONSTITUENTS or they see gain in people acting in this way. Furthering that proof is that Trump HAS NOT been asked to disavow these violent mobs. If these people were Tea Party every single R congressperson would be hounded to disavow their behavior and most would, correctly so. Many wouldnt need to even be asked.
Everyone knows whose team they play for whether they are called Antifa or Vanilla Isis or just plain Democrats. But good leftists like you allow Jerry Nadler and Nancy Pelosi to put their hands over their ears and repeat "lalalalalala" like some 4 year old instead of forcing them to take a position and in so doing potentially put an end to this destructive behavior.
Arrest records from Seattle and Portland (look it up yourself) show some of those arrested include Google Employees and Teachers. Democrat constituents. Whack-jobs.
If you have trouble with Antifa distinction, just make up another name for the coordinated, organized, funded ones. Call them 'Steve' or something...
Eh, Althouse got up on the left side of the bed again today and is being willfully obtuse.
I suppose she has to do that every so often to maintain her "cruel neutrality."
I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa? Where is the investigative journalism?
Please google (or duckduckgo) "andy ngo".
You will not get information. Certainly not absolutely verified documented "official" information. That is because the people with the means to get it and "bless" it as official don't want to.
That is because these are not normal times because your institutions are at war with you. You Americans are in a state of civil conflict, war without, yet, mass violence. Information in war is a precious and guarded thing. Moreover all sides have an interest in creating "fog".
The best you can do is gather whatever data inadvertently leaks through both sides omerta, or whatever spies report, and whatever circumstantial evidence can be found through enemy activities (see above for some of that). And then you can test fitting that into explanatory frames to make sense of it.
This is much like what military intelligence officers do to guess at their enemies' state and intentions. Because that is the best that can be done in war. Or more accurately, so far, in this case, what the dissident resistance to a dictatorial regime has to do. I have been in exactly that situation before, I know how it feels, sounds, smells and tastes like. That is how it has been in the US for years now.
It all comes down to the need to change ones' paradigm - these are not normal times, the players are not operating according to your accumulated experience, and your frames of reference are outdated. Information is "fuzzy", facts are elusive, and one must operate in constant uncertainty.
Wait, you mean they don’t carry membership cards?
After Bay Area violence, California debates classifying ‘antifa’ as a street gang
“Any law enforcement agency trying to label antifa protesters as gang members might also run into another problem: Technically, they don’t exist.”
Common sense is always relevant. The public doesn't need to see overt admissions from the Russian coup plotters, because they're all spies and lawyers and they've been taught not to make those sorts of admissions. The same sort of analysis applies to violent fringe groups. You have to look at the conduct.
Prof Althouse, I'm sorry to say your normally wonderfully inquisitve, searching mind has been replaced here by the three monkeys, refusing to see, hear or speak of Antifa. MarkT refers you to Andy Ngo and you sneer that the quote does not sound like "serious investigative journalism". Why not? Maybe try looking at the relentless, cumulative evidence of Andy's Twitter feed? In an age when "lived experience" is what counts, Andy's scars from close encounters with Antifa are pretty compelling.
Maybe because it does not have a website with a mission statement, you also believe the Mafia does not exist?
I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa?
Then get out of your bubble and read some of the great journalism that is going on outside your beloved NYT propaganda pages.
Geez.
@Earnest Prole
Considering how much detail I went into answering you, I think you owe me a far more respectful and focused response. You're opting for sarcasm, distraction, and randomness. I am asking for evidence and a serious pursuit of the truth.
I only regret that I could only cancel my WaPo subscription once.
What worthless rag it has become. In fact it is worse than worthless; it's useful to those who are trying to destroy this country.
"Maybe try looking at the relentless, cumulative evidence of Andy's Twitter feed?"
Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism.
I do follow Ngo on Twitter. I don't remember seeing anything that meets my standards. Link to something specific if you have it. Twitter is a river that flows along constantly. If something in it is important, you need to pull it out and pin it in place somewhere. It's a ridiculous way to present investigative journalism other than to point at someplace where it is done in a stable, comprehensive format. If such a thing exists under Ngo's byline, you should be able to link to it.
Don't just tell me to "maybe try" hanging out down by the river and see what floats by.
The bullshit here is overwhelming.
"Are there peaceful protesters who deserve recognition for their dedication to nonviolence, whose cause is undermined by a separate set of people?"
Civil disobedience doctrine is that when violence interrupts peaceful protests, the peaceful protesters are supposed to retire and direct any energies they have to restoring peace. Under their own rules, people who allow a confusion between peaceful and violent protest are part of the violence.
It begins with a quote from the WaPo "Fact Checker": "There has not yet been a single confirmed case in which someone who self-identifies as antifa led violent acts at any of the protests across the country.
Where exactly did anyone say the violence was being "led" rather than motivated or inspired?
A particular problem with Cotton's piece was that it said "left-wing radicals like antifa infiltrating protest marches to exploit Floyd’s death for their own anarchic purposes," but the NYT has not yet reported that the violent element was antifa. Its news story on June 1 had said "conservative commentators are asserting with little evidence that antifa, the far-left anti-fascism activist movement coordinates the riots and looting."
Why is the burden raised to proof of "coordination"?
Cotton did not capitalize "antifa", so, as you say, he was referring to a "movement," not a specific organization. Cotton was saying radicals "like antifa" infiltrate protest marches.
Wasn't Cotton was speaking to tactics, motivation and inspiration, not leadership?
What you're quoting is a person making assertions about what other people believe.
Yeah, that's kind of what reporters do.
What are the sources of his information?
The hours of reporting and interviewing he has done during rioting.
That quote doesn't read like serious investigative journalism.
Why not?
If you've got something substantial, provide links.
What would you accept? A signed confession from an Antifa member? Official membership rolls? Who and why was he attacked?
Evidence?
Probably not evidence.
Definitely not evidence.
"Driver shoots AK-47 guy five times."
That was the AK shooting. THEN the pistol replies. You can HEAR it.
Anyway, saw a guy in reddit Portland sub who said, no antifa isn't terribly organized, you just know to wear black, and show up to throw things and break shit.
Sounds like heaven for our eternal 18-year-olds. That's why we used to draft them.
Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate, violent and extremist agenda," Barr said. "The violence instigated and carried out by [A]ntifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.
The US attorney general still not good enough for ya?
"and operates according to principles of serious journalism"
In the case of anything that has political or even culture-war implications that is rare now and it is going to entirely dissapear very soon.
In a war everyone is a partisan and all the news is propaganda, lies of one sort or another.
Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism.
This coming from a woman who depends on the NYT for her news.
I don't remember seeing anything that meets my standards.
This coming from a woman who supported the attacks on Sandmann and believed CBF.
Andy Ngo has been reporting in person about Antifa Portland for a few years. He's the reporter who had a cement "milkshake" poured on his head while being punched and hit with things during an Antifa demonstration. He ended up in the hospital with a brain bleed because of that incident. He knows Antifa so well that he was able to identify some of the "Wall of Moms" as Antifa, as well as some not even identifying as women. He is his own proof. I'd go as far to say that he would be a credible witness in a court case because of his experience. The tactics the violent rioters use (umbrellas, black block) are the same Antifa uses in other places and other demonstrations when they have their flags and signs raised high. (If it quacks like a duck). From my perspective the real proof that is needed is the claim that they are right wing plants. I've seen nothing at all to support that claim. Just wishful thinking.
The bullshit here is overwhelming.
There's no evidence of bullshit here. Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism...
WaPo "Fact Checker"
LOL.
Antifa is as antifa does, IOW in lieu of official membership lists, the arsonists, rock throwers and window breakers are antifa.
Ngo has been chronicling this since 2017,
Look, if you don't like the term "antifa" because people aren't going around with membership cards, okay -- it's a hodgepodge of left wing extremists who are loosely coordinating through social media (as tracked by Ngo et al), and share tactics like matching clothing and masks and trying to block journalists, photographers, and police from capturing evidence that might help identify the actual perpetrators of violence. I don't think anyone is even trying to pretend this is the "boogaloo" bogeyman anymore, are they?
Within the typology of the Left, are they orthodox Stalinists? Maoists? Trotskyites? Are they critical race theorists? Eh, probably not. These "protesters" mostly seem too stupid for that. The ones that get arrested seem more Horst Wessel than Alfred Rosenberg -- bully boys for whom cathartic violence and the expression of hate is the main thing, and talk of defunding police or ending capitalism or whatever is just today's excuse.
I think I still have my Tea Party I.D. card around somewhere. Had to show it before we were allowed to riot.
Scurries or waddles?
Did the Tea Party ever really exist?
This probably doesn't count as evidence:
evidence?
It's hard to tell sometimes if Althouse is participating in the gaslighting, or the gaslighting just works on her.
Do we know the violence is caused by people? What if there are aliens or robots causing the violence instead? How would you know? What if there is no violence at all, it is all CGI deep fakes?
I want proof there is actual violence involving actual people before we start to make conclusions on mere unsubstantiated allegations that could be figments of imaginations, otherwise we are just being ridiculous.
I also don't believe we can assume the sun will rise until we see it --with our own eyes-- each day. Past performance is no guarantee. Videos, as I have mentioned, can be faked.
"Where exactly did anyone say the violence was being "led" rather than motivated or inspired?"
Yeah, that undermines the entire inquiry. It's interesting when the strong word is the weasel word.
Next can we debate how to pronounce antifa? I say AN-tee-fa to match the phenomes to the morphemes. But t.v. people say an-TEE-fuh
Althouse reminds me of Captain Louis Renault in Casablanca being shocked, shocked that gambling was taking place in Rick's establishment. Except he wasn't shocked and neither does she believe that anyone other Antifa is behind the violence across the country and particularly in Portland, which has been their home turf for months. I think it's called gaslighting.
The thing that bothers me is that it is so blatant. We have cities like Portland burning every night, with armed “peaceful” protesters, rioters, and arsonists trying every night to permanently wound and maim police, while finding something new to burn or destroy, and the elite media, like the NYT and WaPi, telling us in all apparent sincerity that nothing is going on, the protests are all peaceful, AntiFA doesn’t exist, etc. They are lying through their teeth. We all (even Ann) know they are lying. Wadler, chair of the powerful House Judiciary Committee, blatantly lied. And now it is official: no AntiFA and no violence. Oh, and we need billions of dollars in the next COVID-19 relief bill to rebuild the Dem controlled city that the nonexistent completely peaceful AntiFA and BLM have repeatedly burned and destroyed over the last couple months.
Where is the investigative journalism?
What a charming and naive statement, coming from someone who regularly treads the NYT.
The DOJ will do the investigative work and journalists will decide to cover it (or not) if it fits their narrative.
I have it on good authority (Inga and Howard) that the primary rioters are Bugaloo Boys and Trump cucks. So, let's ease up on the nice Antifa boys and girls for now.
BTW, Nadler was pushed aside by Pelosi on the Shampeachment because he has lost a lot of cognitive capacity over the past few years. I wonder if his bariatric surgery played a role.
From the way he shuffled to the car he was a bit of a walking issue; the shoes look special-made. And certainly a weight issue; he cinches his belt above his equator. These two conditions justify the name Waddler.
I don't imagine he's driven a car in years. Putting on socks and tying shoes must be real challenges
All-in-all he too might be taken feet first from Congress, like Cummings, Lewis.
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2020/07/27/buckle-up-byron-york-wrecks-the-media-for-trying-to-pivot-now-that-riots-are-actually-backfiring-on-anti-trump-movement/
Follow Andy Ngo on Twitter. He has all the good videos of the stuff that happens late at night. It is brutal.
"So I'm completely consistent"
At a time of revolution, with violence in the streets, institutions attacked, a culture devastated, it is a relief to be reminded of one constant, one lodestar, one rock to rely on.
Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism.
In some senses, Althouse is right. We do not have a serious investigative piece that places Antifa at the center of the riots
However buwaya is probably corret:
Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism.
How do we get to a clear understanding of what is happening in these cities?
What we have:
1. Multiple large groups rioting in major cities.
2. Media that de-emphasizes the riots and try to make them seem less "Riotous".
So you want us to use the same establishment that is in philosophical league with the rioters as our source for who is coordinating the activity. That is like relying one the head of the mafia to give you the truth about drug and prostitution activities in his city. If not the mainstream media, then who else would have the resources to investigate this? Individual bloggers?
So your request for sources is a frustrating requirement that cannot be met. You are setting ground rules that are impossible.
This is what we know:
There is too much activity for this to be a spontaneous movement of concerned citizens. There are supplies, there is messaging, there is coordination.
There is an institution that refuses to investigate.
There is legal procedure in place the make it difficult to link people to an organization that is so loosely distributed. It might happen over time, but right now there is no smoking gun. And for some reason, the government isn't interested in bring RICO forces to bear. That too is frustrating because we have seen the federal government waste time on frivolous claims the already KNEW were false and ignore issues they had hard evidence to support depending on which side of the political spectrum suspects fell. So we don't have any faith in any accurate details of this.
Is that ok with you? Are you not interested in who is doing this and why there isn't significant ink being used up to find the truth of who is involved in the rioting, what their motivation is, and who is coordinating it? Or are you just fine with not knowing and chastising your readership for using the only method of conclusion drawing they have: The duck principle. If it looks like antifa and sounds like antifa and walks like antifa. We will assume it is antifa.
Why read Andy Ngo on twitter to find out what's going on?
Because the NYT, WaPo, NBC/CBS/ABC/CNN etc. do not have a single reporter on the ground.
There's a reason for that.
Apparently we're supposed to believe normal people opposing police brutality show up to protests with gas masks, umbrellas to block camera views, plastic shields, leaf blowers to fight tear gas, and black uniforms to hinder identification as they light buildings on file. No one developed or coordinated these tactics, they independently sprang fully developed the weekend George Floyd died.
Ann “believed” all the bullshit evidence the NYT and WaPo spewed about Russian collusion.
So...it only matters to her WHO is providing the evidence NOT the evidence provided.
I think teachers are using their time off from educating children to protest.
Maybe we should all be grateful they aren’t teaching.
https://twitter.com/pismo_b/status/1287157771993878528?s=10
I do follow Ngo on Twitter. I don't remember seeing anything that meets my standards.
It meets the standard of actually showing what’s going on.
"Where exactly did anyone say the violence was being "led" rather than motivated or inspired?"
Yeah, that undermines the entire inquiry. It's interesting when the strong word is the weasel word
You are right.
Those rules only apply one way. Last week when the ELECTED leaders talked about "unidentified secret federal troops snatching innocents off the street" I missed the same concern for using strong weasel words. Almost every news piece uses weasel words to imply that which has no basis in fact. Pelosi constantly claimed without evidence President Trump refused to take action to deal with the Wu Flu. All the time, not once did anyone suggest an action that was missed.
I would love to get back to straight reporting without the hyperbolic words.
That ship has long ago sailed, the new rules are in place. Play by the rules mandated by Democrats.
Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook -- review:
"...As long as there has been fascism, there has been anti-fascism -- also known as "antifa." Born out of resistance to Mussolini and Hitler in Europe during the 1920s and 30s, the antifa movement has suddenly burst into the headlines amidst opposition to the Trump administration and the alt-right. They could be seen in news reports, often clad all in black with balaclavas covering their faces, fighting police at the presidential inauguration, and on California college campuses protesting right-wing speakers, and most recently, on the streets of Charlottesville, VA.
Simply, antifa aims to deny fascists the opportunity to promote their oppressive politics -- by any means necessary. Critics say shutting down political adversaries is anti-democratic; antifa adherents argue that the horrors of fascism must never be allowed the slightest chance to triumph again..."
Mark Bray on NBC:
Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook -- author on NBC:
"Antifa are revolutionaries and they are almost always anti-police. That’s partly why they organize how they do: If they were pro-police they’d be more inclined to say, 'Hey, police, why don’t you take care of this.' But as anti-capitalist with a sort of police-abolitionist lens, they view the police as problems, as defenders of the capitalist order, and also all too often as sympathizers with the far right. So they view both sides as being opponents, but once again opposition to police is fairly clear cut and comes from a political tradition stretching back 200 years — so it’s not arbitrary, even if you disagree with it.
You also mentioned property destruction. Yeah, property destruction is certainly part of the repertoire of what some of these groups will do to achieve their goals. Some say it’s violence, some say it’s not because it’s not against human beings, that’s a matter of opinion."
BBC on Antifa
"...5. What tactics do they use?
Antifa look to disrupt alt-right events and far-right speakers. They use a variety of tactics to do this – including shouting and chanting and forming human chains to block off right-wing demonstrators. Some are unapologetic about their online tactics, which include monitoring the far right on social media. They also release personal information about their opponents online, commonly known as "doxxing" – they’ve gotten some alt-right supporters fired from their jobs after identifying them online.
Antifa groups also use more traditional forms of community organising like rallies and protest marches. The most extreme factions will carry weapons like pepper spray, knives, bricks and chains – and they don’t rule out violence.
6: How violent are they?
Their willingness to use violence marks out Antifa from many other left-wing activists, although the Antifa members we spoke to said they denounce the use of weapons and violent direct action. They said if violence does occur, it’s as a form of self-defence. They also make historical arguments to justify their position. For instance, they ask, what if opponents of the German Nazi Party had been more forceful in their opposition in the 1930s, could World War Two and the Holocaust have been averted?
Antifa have been directly and sometimes physically confronting the far right on the streets and, in some cases, they have been successful in postponing, cutting short or cancelling rallies and speeches up and down America..."
etc etc
I am Laslo.
Blogger SweatBee said...
Next can we debate how to pronounce antifa? I say AN-tee-fa to match the phenomes to the morphemes. But t.v. people say an-TEE-fuh
—
Oh, c’mon. I know English spelling and pronunciation can be absolutely perverse at times, but the pronunciation is obvious:
also-fa
No accent.
Antifa and chapters of Antifa are definitely real. I’ve seen a chapter gather myself in downtown Seattle (3rd and Pine). Maybe 20 people in public?
Do they pool money, have literature, use specific language and share tactics? Pretty sure.
Should they be designated a terrorist org by the Federal gov’t? I’ve heard arguments both ways. Leaning towards no if local elected officials would just enforce the law. They’re pretty nasty and aggressive in person.
Are they at every rally in every City all the time? Probably not, but usually there are at least a few. Depends where you are.
Portland and Seattle? Yes and in influential numbers. They come with backpacks full of goodies and plans. Always escalating.
Are the people who share in similar principles and motivation to look the other way looking the other way? Yes
Are many media outlets? Seems that way to me.
All you need to do is have witnessed the CHOP, or have seen just a bit of the graffiti, damage, tools used etc. They were here for the WTO protests. The city puts out milk for them.
More broadly, you have violent wayward children and slightly older children in charge out here, so in my opinion, it’s quite a disgrace.
Can we at least agree the protest model has devolved into vague anti establishmentarianism, anarchy, some violence and threats of violence?
Jeez
I clearly said that I didn't know one way or the other and I wanted the journalists and the politicians to focus on getting the facts. It's not horrible to hold Antifa responsible if Antifa is responsible.
,,,
I'm still showing you that I don't know who is doing the violence.
@Athouse, what makes you think that Cotton and Trump don’t have the facts? Or are you hoping that you can play J. Edgar Hoover’s little game of denying that the Mafia exists and when the evidence becomes irrefutable saying that, well, they don’t call themselves “the Mafia”? Whether the call themselves “Antifa” or call themselves something else it s beyond refutation thar the riots are organized, financially supported, and possess a violent agenda.
Where is the investigative journalism?
It's an amazing coincidence left institutions are not interested in investigating facts which might be embarrassing to left political leadership. One might consider whether these institutions act as allies rather than as independent institutions pursuing their publicly stated mission. Th only basis we have to support this is their constant and repeated statements of allyship made over decades and the fact that their actions conflict with their stated mission but align with their political goals.
When people use the same tactics in multiple locations, at the same time, pick the same targets, dress the same, carry the same gear/weapons, use the same slogans, deliver the same messages etc, that obviously takes organization, communications, training, money, logistics etc.
An may not find the "direct iron clad" evidence that see wants but many have seen enough circumstantial evidence to believe Antifa exists (despite my spell check not thinking it's a word) and is heavily involved in the riots we see.
Aside from Andy Ngo and Project Veritas, the arrests of antifa identifying vandals provide more circumstantial evidence that they are involved.
Interestingly, the internet has been wikipedia'ed to highlight Antifa's claims to anti-fascism rather than it's anarchist behaviors.
That quote doesn't read like serious investigative journalism. If you've got something substantial, provide links.
The NY Times reader wants serious journalism. Those ANTIFA flags got to the demonstrations somehow. Nothing will satisfy Ann because she doesn't want to know. I wonder if all those DOJ interrogations will result in serious consequences for the domestic terrorists picked up or if it will be Bill Ayres again. No one does investigative journalism except a few intrepid souls like Kim Strassel and Lee Smith. The rest is propaganda and Ann laps it up.
"I would like Nadler to issue a clear statement telling us what he knows and what he believes is going on."
This is hilarious.
I should add Lara Logan. Thanks rehajm.
I would like Nadler to issue a clear statement telling us what he knows and what he believes is going on.
"If you believe," he shouted to them, "clap your hands; don't let Tink die."
Jerry doesn't look too good. He looked like he was in a daze. Maybe he didn't understand the question?
I think it's about time that the Feds strip the rioters of their gear like tear gas masks, shields, power tools, umbrellas like when they defeated the Nazi armies in W.W.II. You make them disarm and disband. You want to make sure they don't come back tomorrow and succeed in burning down the courthouse.
Ann reads a lot of NYTimes and Washpo and just has a bias that if the story isn't there, it just doesn't exist. All you need to do is pull up youtube and tweeter feeds to see the violence.
No evidence.
OK. Learn me up. What are the protests about? Are there demands?
Now. Who is making demands?
Give me names and contact information.
Lacking facts. Democrat leadership in these cities, Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis. are more inept than is possible to describe. Failing to stop crime on the streets.
This is not peaceful protests. Not unless you show me the facts.
So play by your own rules.
This case resembles closely that of Islamic radicalism, and terrorism, especially that of Al Qaeda.
Most of it operated as a loosely linked network that would not have appeared to be an operative network at all without extensive interception and analysis of communications, and the capture of a few key individuals. From that, the sources and means of financing and cooperative resource mobilization became apparent.
You would not have had a hope of connecting those dots in a provable way without the extensive technological and "human" means the US and other countries applied to it.
As far as we know those means are not being applied to Antifa.
Its worthwhile looking into the history and theory of revolutionary war, and the modern concept of Fourth Generation war, "4G".
Antifa is a movement more than an organization with membership roles. Consequently, if you dress completely in black and show-up at a protest, proclaim opinions shared by Antifa, and commit acts of violence, you can be (fairly) said be Antifa committing acts of violence.
There are hundreds of YouTube videos showing exactly that: young (mostly white) rioters, committing acts of violence, while dressed completely in black. It is not unreasonable to associate them with the Antifa movement in my opinion.
It's also not a stretch to believe that when arrested, the suspect will choose to distant themselves from Antifa the organization. They do, after all, need to get into a good law school at some point.
BLM and Antifa are both used generically to describe members of a movement -- not card-carrying members of an organized group. By that standard, Trump and Cotton were both accurate, in the moment they made their remarks. The point is the violence itself more so than the precise identification of the people committing the violence. The issue of whether we all know precisely who is Antifa and who isn't is completely beside the point.
AP had a reporter on the ground in Portland--on the inside. Good read:
I spent the weekend inside the Portland federal courthouse w/ the US Marshals.
The NYT does not do investigative journalism on this subject because they know that the results of any honest investigation would undermine their politics, and they certainly wouldn't want to print that.
buwaya said...
This case resembles closely that of Islamic radicalism, and terrorism, especially that of Al Qaeda.
Indeed.
Antifa is a movement more than an organization with membership roles.
Antifa is the same organization it was when it was funded by Stalin nearly 100 years ago, and it's mission remains the same:
To spread communism to the West.
SO in other words, the Right and the Conservatives have to PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Antifa is involved because otherwise its just a myth. Where is the Antifa statement that they are NOT involved in the violence? They were violent at Charlottsville and proud of it. You've had Antifa members arrested. The DOJ has called them a domestic terrorist organization.
Nadler responded the way he did, because its a LEFT-WING tactic. He can't defend Antifa's violence, so he simply deny's there's any Antifa! And it works, because people on the Center-Right are stupid.
No one has explained why reasonable liberals like Althouse, not to mention the MSM, are so protective of Antifa and the "protesters" no matter how violent they are. The massive loss of property, injury, and even deaths doesn't really bother them because somehow "the protesters" are doing good. EXACTLY, how they doing good is never explained. As far I as i can tell, their real objective is to help defeat Trump and to express their hatred of America. They hide behind oppressed black folks, but they seem to be almost entirely well-to-do white people.
I'm surprised that Fox News has joined the DNC-media in refusing to report who the protesters are and the extent of Antifa's involvement. Remember at Charlottsiville how insanely hysterical they became when Trump criticized them? How upset they were when the DoJ called them Domestic Terrorists?
Why are they so PROTECTIVE of Left-wing extremists, who pull down statues of Abe Lincoln, Grant, Catholic Saints, and Columbus? Our ruling elite seems pretty blase about antifa going to people's houses in the middle of the night and protesting. IN fact, they seem rather approving. As long as its NOT them. Notice that Pelosi and Schumer haven't utter one word of condemnation and Biden is supportive too.
You are treating the lack of MSM coverage as a mystery when it’s actually a tell.
My Antifa Secret Society (ASS) decoder pin told me "Antifa Doesn't Exist and Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine."
Case closed.
Antifa were supported by the democrats.
Now? ooops.
more lies from the corrupt left. From the top down. Your lying eyes!
Andy NGO's twitter feed showcases a lot of WHITE ANTIFA FASCISM.
There are very fine people on both sides.
BTW, there is NO KKK, there are NO "neo-nazis". If someone the Left sticks these labels on (never warranted) shows up at a protest they are instantly surrounded by 10x their number of left-wing "protesters" and then "violence breaks out" aka the right wingers get attacked.
Lost in all the media hysteria over Charlottsiville is that most of the marchers trying to save the statues did NOT belong to some extreme group, they just wanted Robert E. lee's statue to remain. And they got attacked by Antifa. Just like people who later marched for freedom of speech in SF got attacked by Atifa. But of ocurse, that may be a myth. It could be that right-wingers in Hawaiian shirts and sunglasses did all the violence, while the "peaceful protesters" looked on in horror.
Your demand for links is bad faith. You were provided many links the first time. I provided two. Others provided more.
You can look on Twitter for Andy NGO, as has been repeatedly pointed out. Links are routinely left on this blog, and you moderate each comment.
I observed a George Floyd protest march in my neighborhood in Los Angeles that culminated, by design, near a local upscale shopping area called The Grove. I observed numerous individuals (perhaps 10-15%) with Antifa signs and with Antifa markings or badges on their clothes. The march used automobiles as the equivalent of tanks within the march. At the culmination of the march, as night fell, widespread looting occurred.
I did not observe the looting live. I saw it on television. I think, but cannot prove, that Antifa's role in the violence was central, and that the media's incuriosity on this topic stems from the fact that Antifa is now the military wing of the Democratic Party. The looting was their Kristellnacht. To them, bourgeois private enterprise is the Great Evil.
Antonio Mays Jr. was a 16-year-old boy accused of stealing a car. "Mostly peaceful protestors" peppered his car with up 300 rounds mistakenly thinking they were under attack. There is also audio suggesting that Antoio Mays Jr was killed execution-style. It was basically Trayvon Martin gets murdered by the Manson family. A horror movie.
Usually, people would demand Justice for Antonio Mays Jr. There would be marches demanding "common-sense gun control." The left would mock anyone extending thoughts and/or prayers. But, for Antonio Mays Jr., there are no thoughts, no prayers, no marches and exceedingly little media coverage.
Instead, we are fighting over what to label the murderous left-wing monsters who killed Antonio Mays Jr. and pondering the possibility that they might not even exist.
As for Ngo's reporting. He provides pictures. He gives eyewitness testimony. What is the MSM doing? What is the NYT doing that any better. Lots of MSM reporters misrepresented Trump's walk to the Church during the riots. They said things happened that did NOT happen. They claimed there was tear gas. There wasn't. They claimed the protesters were entirely peaceful, they weren't. They claimed all kinds of police brutality that never happened.
So Ngo is just as believable as the NTY. Of course, we need more than just one man.
As for Ngo's reporting. He provides pictures. He gives eyewitness testimony. What is the MSM doing? What is the NYT doing that any better. Lots of MSM reporters misrepresented Trump's walk to the Church during the riots. They said things happened that did NOT happen. They claimed there was tear gas. There wasn't. They claimed the protesters were entirely peaceful, they weren't. They claimed all kinds of police brutality that never happened.
So Ngo is just as believable as the NTY. Of course, we need more than just one man.
"Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?"
Antifa should be referred to as "So-called Antifa".
It would serve two purposes in mischievous ambiguity.
It could imply that the group does not actually exist, and it could also imply that the group isn't really anti-fascist.
“Andy Ngo is doing the investigative journalism.”
There’s the problem, right there.
Antifa named themselves. Anti-fascist.
But they ARE leftwing, white and really angry.
The democrats came out in full support because the left want everyone to assume Trump is the fascist and Trump's supporters are all fascist too!
But now we have mobs of young white antifa-> burning, smashing, destroying, blinding cops, writing their demands on the walls... demands that we defund police. They hopped right on top of the George Floyd death and stole it for their own chaotic and despotic purposes.
here - you won't see Andy Ngo's twitter feed on the nightly news or in the NYT.
Why? Because democrats support Antifa.
now Antifa have morphed into the very blob of rage, rioting and vandalism they were supposed to be fighting against. So - viola! Antifa terror, while going on right in front of us, is a MYTH.
Andy Ngo's has a sorts of proof. Media to ignore.
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1271572976354365442?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1271572976354365442%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpjmedia.com%2Fnews-and-politics%2Fvictoria-taft%2F2020%2F06%2F13%2Fits-going-down-antifa-uncle-sam-just-started-delivering-payback-for-terror-riots-n525503
Sure, Antifa is real. It's that group that wants to fight Fascism by increasing the power of the State. Makes as much sense as anything else on the Left.
You would not have had a hope of connecting those dots in a provable way without the extensive technological and "human" means the US and other countries applied to it.
As far as we know those means are not being applied to Antifa.
Maybe, but the howls of pain from Democrats about federal officers picking up Antifa members at riots suggests they know that IDs are taken and links being established. Much of that seems to be an intelligence operation, hopefully tracing funding and organization lie the SWIFT system betrayed by the NY Times.
"Blogger Ann Althouse said...
The bullshit here is overwhelming."
Oh please, Althouse. Antifa is a catch-all term for the violent, destructive, Left. Everybody gets this but you, apparently. There is a point at which willful disingenuousness isn't lawyerly, but simply stupid.
The NYT does not do investigative journalism on this subject because they know that the results of any honest investigation would undermine their politics, and they certainly wouldn't want to print that.
Althouse's current position being a case on point.
"This case resembles closely that of Islamic radicalism, and terrorism, especially that of Al Qaeda." Buwaya
PKK (Kurdish Communists) train antifa:
https://www.newsweek.com/turkey-bombs-iraq-syria-group-train-antifa-1512259
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/antifa-trained-by-terrorist-pkk-in-syria-may-end-up-outlawed-in-the-us-36817
“Follow Andy Ngo on Twitter. He has all the good videos of the stuff that happens late at night. It is brutal.”
Why not watch live streams from numerous streamers on several platforms? There are independent journalists who are going to the protests nightly and live stream video all night long. Stay up a few nights and watch for yourselves. I have for the last three nights, you might find there are two sides to the story. Andy NGO only gives his side, that's very obvious from his tweets and his photos.
The violence and the number of people showing up in Portland and now many other cities has increased since the presence of the federal troops, it was like injecting jet fuel into the fire that was dying out all on its own. Trump didn’t send federal troops to protect anything, he sent them there to cause more civil unrest and then blame it on some Antifa like movement. This would benefit him in his re-election attempts.
Ann, this is an embarrassing error. You stepped in it up to your shoulders. Just wash yourself, apologize and move on.
Your leftist impulses take you down the rabbit hole sometimes. Climb back out, re-acquaint yourself with facts and logic, and start over.
Althouse is trolling us, btw brilliantly.
Antifa as shown by project Veritas on video is very secretive.
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/antifa-practice-things-like-an-eye-gouge-it-takes-very-little-pressure-to/
https://youtu.be/VLR76_e_koE
Some Journalists are pro Antifa:
https://quillette.com/2019/05/29/its-not-your-imagination-the-journalists-writing-about-antifa-are-often-their-cheerleaders/
Antifa threats stopped a parade in Portland:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/?google_editors_picks=true
Antifa is organized. I read an after action report that is impressive.
From various sources I believe:
Antifa is instigators / provocateurs that melt away. They will bring the tools / weapons and break a glass window, and let others loot.
People in Antifa are instructed not to take responsibility for protests. Individuals are not to be the public face. The public image is anonymous.
They may be afraid of Rico, which is one reason not to self identify.
“Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism.”
The problem there is that media organizations that you would presumably trust to being doing the reporting, aren’t doing it right now, but rather are running cover and doing propaganda for the violent rioters and arsonists. It’s not that they have permanently eschewed journalism, but rather that objectivity has been temporarily sacrificed for the ultimate goal of beating Trump and the Republicans in November.
Somehow it seems like we are talking true Scotsmen here. There are serious articles in the violence. But they aren’t acceptable because they aren’t serious articles published in serious media, and if they were serious articles in serious media, they wouldn’t be investigating something that the NYT, WaPo, and evening the Hon. Jerry Wadler, have all assured us don’t exist.
I don’t believe that the Boogaloo movement is involved much or at all in Portland. However they certainly were present in the early BLM protests all over the country, to deny they were instigating, rioting and setting fire to buildings and businesses and even committing murder is to be as clueless as you people accuse Althouse or Nadler of being.
Ann reads a lot of NYTimes and Washpo and just has a bias that if the story isn't there, it just doesn't exist.
@Gk1, right on!
If Antifa did not exist, the Right would have no need to invent them, because the Left would reinvent them, and use them, again, to burn buildings and attack police. Without burning buildings and police attacks, a nonviolent protest does nothing to cause radical marxist change in the US.
You are blind if you can't see it.
Investigative journalism will not happen because the answer is already known.
No enemies to the Left, as always.
And your "not knowing" strikes me as false unless you mean 'metaphysical certainty' a la the McLoughlin Group.
Maybe you think all those Democratics as mayors of big cities are protecting the right for some ridiculous reason.
No, you don't think that.
But you play act at the possibility.
“Prof Althouse, I'm sorry to say your normally wonderfully inquisitve, searching mind has been replaced here by the three monkeys, refusing to see, hear or speak of Antifa.”
Exactly how the majority of rightists here reacted when I would link to numerous investigative articles from a large number of sources about the violence being committed by the various Boogaloo groups. You people are as clueless and unwilling to believe anything outside your own narrative as you accuse the left of being. Get the plank out of your own eyes...
It's fair to ask: where is the investigative journalism on this topic? - or any other. But such journalism is gone. Moreover at this moment even the most vigorous journalist would have trouble. The Feds are arresting people whom they consider significant leaders based on a study of pictures from the riots. So those cases would tell us exactly who is leading in Portland and Seattle. But because the arrests are happening the leaders and organized groups are burrowing down into the unorganized people who are showing up for an Instagram shot of themselves confronting the man. Symbols and flags are gone as of late July. Andy Ngo is able to say that Antifa people are still there but Antifa groups are self-muting. How then can we know anything?
We can look at the riots and ask what are the related demands and look at actions and know something. The demand now is to get rid of the police and the action is attacking police stations and courthouses. That is the anarchist characteristic suggesting to me anarchists being used by Communists but I know that these riots have grown out of very early Antifa organizing to prevent any white supremacy groups such as the Proud Boys from marching in Portland or Seattle. Those early Antifa organizers might have proved capable of going national, organizing funding, suppressing the truth in the national press, silencing Dem politicians and changing into attacks on Federal courthouses. In fact, Andy Ngo says they are still there. But even so these early Antifa people would now be connected with some large organization of some kind, if they are not dominated and effectively replaced by it. In other words who is running Antifa (Seattle / Portland)? Probably (right now in late July) George Soros people are duking it out with CPUSA. While the Dems bleat off to the side about the effect on the election. And the riot people tell the Dems to simply deny that anything is happening which of course is something Dems are trained in doing after Russia, Russia. After all, the Dems are unaware of the fall of New York City.
At least Nadler didn’t call Anti1A violence a hoax.
The duck principle. If it looks like antifa and sounds like antifa and walks like antifa. We will assume it is antifa.
A great principal, and one I've used throughout my life to good effect. I'd add that I have an easier time identifying antifa than I do most ducks, so there is that.
Of course there are those who demand that the NYT or WaPo identify the ducks for us just to be certain, even if they are not duck experts, and hate duck hunting in general. The federal government, who have been in the duck identifying business for quite awhile now, have told us these are in fact ducks. But let's wait on the WaPo to weigh in, who have avowed to keep us in darkness.
Not just willfully blind, but in wilful denial. Cruel neutrality will only get you so far, and is not a problem solving tool.
Althouse -- it's a duck. And Soros is the one with the duck call. Just take my word for it. You're welcome.
"Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?" -- Althouse
Explain this concept: "cruel neutrality", and you'll have your answer.
Rick said...
Apparently we're supposed to believe normal people opposing police brutality show up to protests with gas masks, umbrellas to block camera views, plastic shields, leaf blowers to fight tear gas, and black uniforms to hinder identification as they light buildings on file. No one developed or coordinated these tactics, they independently sprang fully developed the weekend George Floyd died.
7/27/20, 9:01 AM
Let's not forget strategically placed pallets of bricks.
Yeah, it was all done by peaceful, completely unorganized protesters spontaneously outraged by the Floyd killing.
And I guess Ngo can research and investigate and record the rioters all he wants. Apparently, it doesn't count because he's not a journalist with a organization doing "serious investigative reporting" - you know, like the NYT or ABC.
Althouse sounds exactly like the reporters who sneered at bloggers as "guys in pajamas" back in 2004, when it was bloggers who questioned the authenticity of Dan Rather's reporting. Don't believe the bloggers! Believe us! Because we have multiple layers of fact-checkers!
16 years later, and Althouse still believes - or pretends to believe - that Big Media is doing "serious investigative reporting."
Nadler’s comment and Althouse’s earlier blog post remind me of my incurious Democrat physician neighbor who gets all her news from WaPo, CNN, NYT and NPR. If it hasn’t been reported there, it’s a myth. For those of us who also read or watch alternative media featuring quotes from named sources, including Antifa and BLM leaders, photos and video from bystanders, etc., this is baffling. I provide her with heavily documented articles, video of people and events, studies published in respected journals, etc., and what does she do, she fact checks with WaPo, CNN, NYT and NPR. If they don’t agree, or worse, if they haven’t reported it, it’s not real.
Who ya gonna believe, the NYT or your lyin’ eyes? These leftmedia sources are proven liars. This is beyond brand loyalty. It’s demonic.
Anyone else wonder if the rage on the left is in part sparked by "Bernie didn't get in"
Bernie is the ultimate communist light bringer.
LOL
I live in Oregon. Portland has an active Antifa presence and very few blacks
Wiki says:
"Rose City Antifa (RCA) is an antifa group founded 2007 in Portland, Oregon, United States. It has been called the oldest active antifa group in the nation."
Antifa has been taking over Portland streets for several years and attacking any other marches by anybody who would display an American flag.
Of Course Antifa is involved in Protests, and riots here. That's their reason for being.
WaPo and NYT hang their hats on the fact that it's a faceless group. Its leaders hide in the mob.
Unless ahn Tee fuh starts setting of random IEDs and AK-47 civilian attacks, then equating them with Al Quesadilla, il daesh and Humas is nothing but extreme pearl clutching.
“The Trumpian juggernaut stormtroopen violence against mom's dad's nurses and veterans is good TV to keep his Loyalists salivating whilst distracting them from the Covid-19 scourge he purposefully ignited on the Red States.”
Indeed, that’s what Trump is hoping for.
Attention congressman Nadler : Antifa/BLM are agents of a powerful faction within your party. If you do not reject them, you become the party of anarchy, chaos, and insurrection. You are Antifa.
There is an organized militant group that call themselves anti-fascists. Andy Ngo has reported about their internal meetings. So we know they exist, they wear “black bloc” uniforms, they are violent and looking for fights. What we don’t know is how many of them there are relative to the violent crowds in PDX and Seattle.
Thanks for the link. Browndog. The fact that leapt our at me is that teargas was only used AFTER the mob attacked. Why, exactly, are these people attacking the court house? Have they even made any demands? The article is notable for its complete lack of curiosity! There are no interviews with protestors about their purpose or end game, just the usual quotes about racism. Wasted opportunity.
paminwi said...
Ann “believed” all the bullshit evidence the NYT and WaPo spewed about Russian collusion.
To be fair, Althouse almost always shows a degree of skepticism as in her post about Antifa.
That is her Socratic dialogue tool.
If they dress in black, wear black helmets, are white and riot, then they're antifa. Antifa has had the free-reign in Portland for 4-years while the feckless mayor, Ted Wheeler, cheers them on, does nothing to protect the public and prosecutes anyone who stands up to them.
Jerry Nadler is another antifa enabler. He's going "Nah, nah, nah! I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing." He's doing a very poor Sgt. Schultz impression.
Althouse re Andy NGO: “Maybe try linking to a serious article that collects evidence and cites sources and operates according to principles of serious journalism. I do follow Ngo on Twitter. I don't remember seeing anything that meets my standards.”
There it is in a nutshell: lefty denial. It’s what my deluded lefty neighbor says also, “WaPo and NYT are good, serious journalism.”
Never mind that FBI testimony and investigative notes and the Mueller fiasco have proved that virtually everything about NYT’s Pulitzer Prize winning coverage of “Trump’s collusion with Russia” was false, it was dead “serious.” The leftmediaswine are engaged in a “serious” effort to destroy the results of a presidential election and to alter the outcome of another. Facts don’t matter!
But never mind, they are more reliable reporting on Antifa than Andy Ngo whose relentless coverage of Antifa thugs got him hospitalized. They are “serious” and meet the Althouse “standards” while Ngo’s first hand experience and photos do not. Wow! Just wow!
Demonic.
Ann Althouse said...
The bullshit here is overwhelming.
************
Yes, YOUR bullshit. You suddenly have very, very prissy/sniffy standards about what YOU think constitutes "investigative journalism". A guy like Andy Ngo, who has continually and actively followed Antifa, and been beaten by them for his trouble, doesn't meet your "standards", because he's on Twitter? You don't even know he is an editor at Quillette?
https://heavy.com/news/2019/06/andy-ngo-attacked/
https://nypost.com/2020/06/20/my-terrifying-5-day-stay-inside-seattles-autonomous-zone/
Why not tell us EXACTLY what your "standards" are, as your reliance on the MSM every day for YOUR information marks your "standards" as very low. Perhaps you are so mesmerized by the NYT that you cannot see how debased it has become, leading to your own intellectual debasement.
Why should the NYT identify the anarchists as Antifa---when they themselves are part of the cabal that wants to use Antifa to destroy Trump?
Yet a cursory on-line search shows that Antifa members HAVE been arrested:
https://thepostmillennial.com/seven-antifa-militants-arrested-in-portland
A press release from the Department of Justice reads:
"Rowan Olsen, 19, of Portland, is charged with disorderly conduct, creating a hazard on federal property, and failing to obey a lawful order; Shant Singh Ahuja, 28, of Oceanside, California, is charged with destruction of federal property; and Andrew Steven Faulkner, 24, of Beaverton, Oregon; Gretchen Margaret Blank, 29, of Seattle, Washington; Christopher Fellini, 31, of Portland; Cody Porter, 28, of Portland; and Taimane Jame Teo, 24, of Eugene, Oregon, are charged with assaulting federal officers."
Some of the illegal activities the Antifa militants allegedly participated in include targeting officers with lasers, fireworks, and projectiles. The seven defendants also allegedly broke a door, a closed-circuit video camera, and assaulted police.
ADs
The DOJ writes that "Faulkner, Fellini, Porter, and Teo are accused of assaulting federal officers with high intensity lasers. At the time of his arrest, Faulkner also possessed a sheathed machete."
Fellini was found with components of a pipe bomb as well as a knife and mace."
QE EFFING D.
And, whatever and whoever Antifa are, SOMEONE is burning down major American cities, and the very WHITE Antifa people are out there every night, in their black uniforms, masks and helmet, and their weaponized skateboards, fireworks, lasers, bats and other weapons. They are destroying property and viciously attacking local and federal police officers, night after night.
Christ, they have even burned down and destroyed major parts of your own city, and here you are wondering who they "really" are, even though they have publicly declaimed that their intention is to burn it all down.
It should be obvious to all: they are ANARCHISTS.
In terms of meeting the standard of professional reporting, this should do it.. Someone else posted this link to an AP reporter who spent the night in the courthouse. While he gives a very vivid description of the violence, he exhibits a notable lack of curiosity around the "who" question. Because it's fucking obvious.
I can't tell if Althouse is quarreling with the asserted leadership role of Antifa or simply its participation. Proving leadership of such an incoherent "movement" is tough, even for the redoubtable Andy Ngo. I presume that Barr's DOJ is working on that, but they're not going to leak info before bringing charges.
But the burden of proof in the question of Antifa's participation seems to me to be on those who claim it isn't involved.
Given that
1) Antifa exists (after all, CNN itself has said so), and
2) there is ample evidence of ongoing street violence in multiple cities,
the question is, why wouldn't Antifa be involved in that? Indeed, at the forefront of it?
Blogger rehajm said...
It reminds me of the discussion we used to have about whether a particular lone terrorist was a member of Al Qaeda or whichever Muslim hate group
Me, too. The terrorists reveled in the idea their targets were arguing about their existence because thy lacked spiffy uniforms and banner men carrying their sigil...
I'll correct myself, as in the June 22 post there's my link to video
of an antifa anarchy flag flying in Seattle
AP had a reporter on the ground in Portland--on the inside.
It is a good read. I noticed the tactics being used by the violent protestors. The weapon are civilian items. I noticed the many pro-protest news articles like to point out the military style response of the federal officers to the civilian level weaponry being deployed.
Let's look at the civilian weaponry:
Canned food - "Hey we are just giving them food", except sent like a brick
Ball bearings - The difference between a ball bearing and a bullet is mostly speed of projectile
Firework artillery - The major difference is that a firework has a paper shroud so less fragmentation damage, but otherwise it is a missile packed with gunpowder being fired at officers.
High powered lasers - Obtainable at stores, but the intent is to burn out officers retinas.
Now imagine if the officers decided to:
Use pepper spray made of regular seasoning products like cayenne.
Rubber bullets
Flash bang grenades
Their own lasers with the intent to blind protestors.
In all this, remember that the vast majority of Portland citizens are staying at home, because they don't share convictions with either side.
Howard: “...the Covid-19 scourge [Trump] purposefully ignited on the Red States.”
Seriously? So this is the lefty distraction from the homicidal incompetence of the Democrat regimes in 9 of the top 10 Death states?
Here’s another take: Big Fredo killed more New Yorkers than Osama bin Laden. Governors in NJ, Mass, PA and Conn were not far behind. But then most of their victims were over 65, a group where many Trump voters are found, so from a Democrat, leftmedia perspective, no harm done.
The questions Althouse asks are important if we find that one person who denies that the pro-totalitarian and misnamed organization, Antifa, exists and is involved in riots against the federal government...
When we find that one person in America who believes those things and is willing to be convinced otherwise...
Republicans might pounce, after all, on that one person if we present evidence to prove what is known.
If the pro-totalitarian movement known as Antifa showed up in Althouse's neighborhood to burn and pillage would she ask whether Stalin would stop the mayhem if only he knew of it?
I am 60-40 against but could be convinced.
Oh good grief. Ms. Althouse seems to be worried that nobody has conclusively proved through investigative journalism and absolute proof that such a thing as Antifa exists.
I'm reminded of settlers in a wagon train on the Great Plains--surrounded by Indians on the warpath Cowboy and Indian movie style. They're going to die. One says to the other, "Are those Arapahoe or Sioux getting ready to kill us?" The reply, "I don't know, nobody's proved their identity to the satisfaction of the NYT".
Somebody or somebodies is/are beating people in the head with bike locks, throwing stones, hammering the walls of the Federal Court House in Portland or trying to set it on fire. But we "don't know who", or "can't say that we know". For all intents and purposes all of this is being done by mindless individuals with no coordination. There seems to be an outbreak of individual mass psychosis in Portland. Pardon me if I find it difficult to accept any of those theories.
https://bongino.com/google-engineer-arrested-at-portland-riots/
oh wait- I'm sure this is a figment of our imagination. A myth.
Trump really is behind all of this.
or something.
"While the riots in Portland (like many others nationwide) initially begin in response to the death of George Floyd, Floyd’s family quickly denounced violence and looting. When his brother Terence Floyd spoke to the media for the first time he said of the rioters “What are y’all doing? Y’all doing nothing! Because that’s not going to bring my brother back, at all.” Of course, to point out that leftists anarchists will use any excuse as a Trojan Horse to create mayhem is probably just pointing out the obvious.
Anyway, it’ll be interesting to see how (or if) this story appears in Google’s search results."
"Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?"
That fact speaks volumes.
Do these links count as legitimate journalism (which I think is truly an outdated phrase)?
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/27/seattle-rioting-results-59-officers-injured-agitat/
(Seattle)
and
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/27/molotov-cocktails-rifle-ammunition-found-near-port/
(Portland)
Do quotes from the police dep't from the affected area count as legit info?
(BTW, I trust Andy Ngo.)
Althouse: ‘Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?’ Seriously?
This is what comes of relying on the leftmedia and spending your professional life in academe.
Mainstream media sucks.
IF you want to understand what’s going on in Portland this link walks you through prepping for the show step by step: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1287688790400614400.html The Reader App presents unreadable Twitter material in an easy logical progression.
Guy who goes by WOKAL_DISTANCE outlines the prep, the purpose, the equipment, the way the protests are choreographed to produce specific visuals for friendly media (Portland Moms anyone?) and how the goal truly is anarchy, not any particular current excuse like a Floyd or a Brown, whatever’s handy for exploitation. So the links and insight (warning some supplied by antifa fanboys) will provide your answers to sho is doing the planning and execution. If you can see the outline through the fog of the war we are in, then you can answer the questions posed by Althouse. Spoiler alert, no self-identified antifa nihilists ever say, “ Yup. It’s ya for sure.” You have to use your brain to see the message in their methods.
At least we know who one of them is.
Seattle-area Google engineer, Zachary Ames Trudo, was arrested at the antifa riot in Portland, Ore. The 32-year-old is charged w/assault, attempting escape, resisting arrest & more. He was quickly released. #PortlandRiots
Why I don't use Google for searches.
The way I've been using the word 'Antifa' is to refer to anyone that expresses far-left thinking, which should be a much fuzzier concept than it actually is, but in reality is usually easy to recognize, and engages in violence or supports people that engage in violence.
And that's a lot of people. It includes a lot of people at the universities. It includes many journalists, who quite aside from whatever they think, have seen first hand many acts of violence and even filmed them and have not reported on it because they are in the business of preventing people from understanding what is going on and who is doing it.
I would not know this or be as strong in my opinion were it not for YouTube which not that long along would allow individuals to post their videos and had an interesting algorithm for directing attention to what people found interesting.
Unfortunately those days are past. And YouTube is quite actively censoring, and their algorithm for recommending videos has became very political and is intended to put the left in a very good light.
The literal Antifa, assuming it even exists, is not an organization that has a membership roll. In part it is largely out in the open since if you know where to go you can find many like minded people on the internet and talk to each other, and organize, and plan mayhem without ever having formally joined anything. And it is part of the Antifa idea that it is all deniable. If you get caught doing something bad, you are supposed to claim you are something else.
In fact in some ways it's so public I would be amazed if it weren't actually being taught at the University of Wisconsin. I mean all the ideas and the techniques and the strategies that Antifa uses.
But aside from what I saw on YouTube back when it was more interesting, the best evidence for Antifa is in the behavior of people that we know are on the left and whose identity is not in question. And if they act to protect people who are committing violent acts, and that is what most of the media actually is doing, and what many state and local governments are doing, and even many police departments are doing, then I know that this is Antifa, or what I mean by Antifa, because the left would not be defending or covering up or hiding evidence of wrongdoing for people on the right.
BLACK Trump supporter shot and killed in Milwaukee.
Must be a myth. Never happened.
Rage and anger - the cup was filled by the lying hack-D press.
The Overton Window on the Portland Riots will be shattered.
This is progress:
AP Reporter that spent a week in courthouse:
https://apnews.com/1dd1bb39093a3691f4e78093787ab877
And even Joe Scarborough is noticing:
https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/1287681755705749506?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1287681755705749506%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2Fdougp-3137%2F2020%2F07%2F27%2Freality-sinking-in-joe-scarborough-notices-peaceful-protests-in-portland-not-so-peaceful-after-all%2F
Trump is creating a situation he wins no matter what.
If Antifa stops the riots, he wins.
If the continue, he wins by shattering the Overton window, while minimizing use if Federal force to avoid another Kent State.
The politicians in Seattle and Portland support antifa. Lorena Gonzalez, Lisa Herbold, Kshama Sawant provide cover for the rioters. The mayor of Portland, Ted Weaver, has supported also-fascist for years by directing the police to do nothing. The governors of Oregon and Washington, Kate Brown and Jay Inslee, do nothing. They haven't activate the National Guard to support the local police during these also-fascist riots. When they did activate the NG at the start of the protests, the NG was unarmed and only a few hundred were activated. Not enough to overwhelm the rioters and suppress the rioting.
Democrat politicians are asshole.
Antifa from many other left-wing activists... what if opponents of the German Nazi Party
Left vs Left.
serious question
WHOEVER these 'protesters' are; What Are They Protesting?
Are we supposed to believe, that the reason there have been riots (sorry, 'protests') in downtown Portland for 60 nights; is because of the Federal Presence at the Courthouse that started 10 nights ago?
Is this like that time, when i had to break that beer bottle* over my (soon to be ex) girlfriend's head; because she was going to call the cops on me?
Antifa is a movement more than an organization with membership roles.
really?
who pays for?
the food carts?
the t shirts?
the baseball bats?
the signs?
the medkits?
more importantly, who is laundering Soros' money
Nadler is older than thought itself, and fatter. I hope he catches Chinavirus.
I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa?
It ain't Howdy Doody.
Guy who goes by WOKAL_DISTANCE outlines the prep, the purpose, the equipment, the way the protests are choreographed...
This was striking...
That strategy is paired with: "the real action is your targets reaction." you want to use someone's reactions to your protest against them.
IE: Blocking a road. If the police arrest you, play the martyr. If they don't, you now control the road.
Remned me of the answer to the question I can't recall- You accommodate them...
Here’s another take: Big Fredo killed more New Yorkers than Osama bin Laden. Governors in NJ, Mass, PA and Conn were not far behind. But then most of their victims were over 65, a group where many Trump voters are found, so from a Democrat, leftmedia perspective, no harm done.
And let’s not overlook the savings in Medicare funds that can be repurposed for pet liberal causes instead of taking care of oldsters!
If Antifa has no command structure and no membership roster, does it exist?
Or, to put it the other way round, if a bunch of boys and girls dress alike, have the same anarchist beliefs, commit ideologically motivated acts of destruction, and post about these beliefs and acts online, does that mean an organization exists?
I suspect Nadler is quibbling about what the meaning of "is" is.
There is money to be made as a consultant next year trying to rehabilitate the image of all of these blue cities as a tourist destination. The articles trickling in from Portland and Seattle papers are beginning to acknowledge its no longer fun and it endangering their future as its not playing well outside with the normies who they rely on for tourism.
Every article I have read the last 5 days has been "sure there is rioting but its only 12 square blocks of Portland and only happens at night" Followed by "weird, no one seems to be coming down here during the day time hours either. Hmmm...???"
https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2020/07/readers-respond-violence-detracts-from-blm-issues.html
The AP report Bleach Bit linked was good. The responses are straight from the Confederacy. States Rights! The Yankees should surrender Ft Sumter!
Exactly how the majority of rightists here reacted when I would link to numerous investigative articles from a large number of sources about the violence being committed by the various Boogaloo groups
Hilarious. The bedpan commando is still searching for that Boogalloo Banzai. The stupid is almost parody. "Who are you going to believe Inga, the nNYT or your lying eyes? Keeping eyes firmly shut helps.
Michael K: "Hilarious. The bedpan commando is still searching for that Boogalloo Banzai. The stupid is almost parody. "Who are you going to believe Inga, the nNYT or your lying eyes? Keeping eyes firmly shut helps."
Indeed.
But now Inga has another problem: she is now officially following the marxist dem line and claiming its Bannon and the boogaloos responsible for....wait for it...wait for it.....non-existent violence!!
What a perfect ending for our russia collusion hoax, hoax dossier, ukraine hoax, carter page is a spy hoax, kavanaugh is a gang rape leader Truther!
By the way, Inga has a new hoax she has latched onto: Michael Cohen is going to write a book which is going to be chock full of all the evidence needed to make The Walls Close In!
Inga is very excited about this brand new super secret "evidence".
Why get hung up on the label "antifa"? Organized Left-wing extremists groups, which includes Antifa, are doing all the violence and rioting. The Leftists have been playing this name game ever since the Commies came into existance. Over the years the Commies have called themselves, "Communists", "Social Democrats" "Socialists" "progressives" and "Marxists". And the game is that whenever someone called you a Communist, you'd say you weren't one. And if they pressed, you'd say you were a "Social Democrat" or a "Socialists" or a "progressive" or a "Marxist". And go into a big song and dance about how "marxists" weren't "communists".
Confuse and obfuscate. So it doesn't matter if every single violent rioter/protester is Antifa. Or self-identifies as Antifa, they're violent left-wing extremists and are part of an organized effort.
Finally, if there's a fox news reporter in LA area who is also covering the riots and has done an excellent job.
"Francisco D said...
"To be fair, Althouse almost always shows a degree of skepticism as in her post about Antifa. That is her Socratic dialogue tool."
Normally, yes. However, "The bullshit here is overwhelming" is not part of the Socratic technique. It sounds more like an attempt to deal with cognitive dissonance.
I am hoping BLM riots in Royal ass Inga's neighborhood.
I hope they riot at or in her house.
I wish her the greatest successes on her political advocacy.
To be fair, I encourage the Boogaloo Bois to try rioting in my neighborhood.
Both of them -- the real member and the FBI plant.
"The massive loss of property, injury, and even deaths doesn't really bother them because somehow "the protesters" are doing good. EXACTLY, how they doing good is never explained."
Must be the pretty murals.
“The Trumpian juggernaut stormtroopen violence against mom's dad's nurses and veterans is good TV to keep his Loyalists salivating whilst distracting them from the Covid-19 scourge he purposefully ignited on the Red States.”
And murderers of 8 year-old girls. The Left loves that shit.
" Inga said...
I don’t believe that the Boogaloo movement is involved much or at all in Portland."
Boogie Board Bhoys take five! Hey, even a White Supremacist has to get his rest...
There is little chance this ends peacefully.
And if it keeps up - and spreads to other areas - federal officers will be the least of their problems.
Gahrie at 8:09 AM
This coming from a woman who supported the attacks on Sandmann and believed CBF.
In the case of Christine Blasey Ford, the convincing evidence for Althouse was that CBF sounded "distraught" when she told her yarn.
Well, as they would say on Twitter, the ratio here is awesome, in about a decade of reading this blog, I don't think I have ever seen anything quite like it. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
wildswan said, "I know that these riots have grown out of very early Antifa organizing to prevent any white supremacy groups such as the Proud Boys from marching in Portland or Seattle."
How do you know that? How do you know that any of that is true? Not that I claim to know what is the truth. But I did see videos of the Proud Boys early on and saw interviews of them.
And what they seemed to be or claimed to be were people who were proud to be American and proud of America and whose specific purpose was to defend the right of people to peacefully express their opinion. They were almost all young men. They were almost all white.
And they did not hide their faces.
They seemed to be a reaction to Antifa. In other words, the group formed to protect people from the violent assaults coming from Antifa (aka the left). There was a time not that long ago where you had people of different political beliefs coming to these demonstrations and stating their views.
Antifa, or the left, gradually changed that. So many people on the right or the middle got attacked and assaulted and injured by the left that as I perceive it everyone else stopped going to these demonstrations.
The Proud Boys, if I've got things right, really only existed for a short period of time and it wasn't that many people, and what they were trying to do was kind of heroic.
But how would you know that? You would have to be fortunate to even know that there might be a counter-narrative.
Inga said...
Trump didn’t send federal troops to protect anything, he sent them there to cause more civil unrest and then blame it on some Antifa like movement. This would benefit him in his re-election attempts.
This, dear friends is your average Democrat voter.
"Antifa is real, and violent, and involved in riots nationwide!"
Althouse: "Chill, Dawg"
'serious' journalism, with links'n'shit
"Jihadist plots used to be U.S. and Europe's biggest terrorist threat. Now it's the far right."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jihadist-plots-used-be-u-s-europe-s-biggest-terrorist-n1234840
Inga the Moron Russia Collusion Truther: "Trump didn’t send federal troops to protect anything, he sent them there to cause more civil unrest and then blame it on some Antifa like movement. This would benefit him in his re-election attempts."
As with slavery, Jim Crow and segregation, the left maneuvers to lay at republican's feet what the left/dems/LLR-left has done.
How.............unexpected.
The best part? The Inga's of the world are saying Trump is responsible, retroactively, for all the violence BEFORE federal officers were sent to protect federal facilities that had been attacked for 2 full months!!
LOL
If you thought Inga would be reluctant to declare Space-Time null and void, you were mistaken.....
This is a very superficial observation: that Nadler fellow is an oddly constructed human being. Very weeble like.
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