I ran into Jerry Nadler in DC and asked him to disavow the Antifa violence/rioting in Portland.— Essential Fleccas 🇺🇸 (@fleccas) July 27, 2020
His response?
“THATS A MYTH” pic.twitter.com/veImyE2rju
I can't tell what he's calling a myth — maybe only the role of Antifa — but he sure scurried out of there. Did not want to discuss any details.
He calls it "a myth spread that's being spread only in Washington D.C." That's plainly untrue.
IN THE COMMENTS: Earnest Prole said:
A month ago you were saying it was “horrible” to hold Antifa responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests, and now you’re mocking Jerry Nadler?I appreciate that he provided a link to my June 22nd post, but let's take a close look at exactly what I said, because there is absolutely no contradiction. It begins with a quote from the WaPo "Fact Checker":
"There has not yet been a single confirmed case in which someone who self-identifies as antifa led violent acts at any of the protests across the country. The president and his administration have placed an outsize burden of blame on antifa, without waiting for arrest data and completed investigations. This is not the first time Trump has pointed to antifa as a shadowy nemesis. But the misinformation created by his continued insistence of antifa’s involvement has led to more chaos and violence in an already turbulent moment. As always, the burden of proof rests with the speaker — and the administration has provided no evidence, only assertions that it has evidence. Trump earns Four Pinocchios."I go on to connect that to the recent problem at the NYT and quote an earlier post of mine:
Write Meg Kelly and Elyse Samuels at the Washington Post "Fact Checker," addressing the many statements by Trump that the Black Lives Matter protests involve antifa.
This, by the way, was also the problem the NYT had with the Tom Cotton op-ed. As I said when the NYT first expressed regret for publishing the piece:You see my use of the word "horrible." Earnest Prole wrongly paraphrased me as saying "it was 'horrible' to hold Antifa responsible." I clearly said that I didn't know one way or the other and I wanted the journalists and the politicians to focus on getting the facts. It's not horrible to hold Antifa responsible if Antifa is responsible.
A particular problem with Cotton's piece was that it said "left-wing radicals like antifa infiltrating protest marches to exploit Floyd’s death for their own anarchic purposes," but the NYT has not yet reported that the violent element was antifa. Its news story on June 1 had said "conservative commentators are asserting with little evidence that antifa, the far-left anti-fascism activist movement coordinates the riots and looting."I added: "Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?"
Whether Cotton was right or wrong about the facts, there is a problem with factual assertions in op-eds. I've written op-eds for the NYT, and it was with a very short deadline and I was trusted to get the facts in order. I don't know how much the Times intends to change its process, but I assume it wants and needs to have some distance between itself and the writers it brings in from the outside to give a hot take on a breaking controversial story.
I'm mildly glad to see the WaPo Fact Checker addressing this topic, but it's pathetic that this basic level of journalistic inquiry is coming so late. It is, however, horrible that Trump (and Cotton) have spread this meme. Maybe they are right and the Fact Checker is wrong, but it's not enough to luck out in the end and have said something that turns out to be the truth. We should care about the truth for the sake of truth and care about it all along. There's so little of that these days.
In this post today, I said "I can't tell what [Nadler is] calling a myth — maybe only the role of Antifa...." I'm still showing you that I don't know who is doing the violence. The interview in the clip is cut off. I'd like to see the whole thing. Is Nadler denying that there is violence in Portland? It's very weird to say that, so I'm inclined to guess that he was only saying that it's a myth to say it's Antifa. Now, he's still plainly wrong — as I said above — to say that it's only in Washington that people are saying the violent element in the protests is Antifa.
So I'm completely consistent with my June 22nd statement. I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa? Where is the investigative journalism? Are there peaceful protesters who deserve recognition for their dedication to nonviolence, whose cause is undermined by a separate set of people? I still don't know. I would like Nadler to issue a clear statement telling us what he knows and what he believes is going on.
Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?
Posts
254 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 254 of 254“ Antifa from many other left-wing activists... what if opponents of the German Nazi Party”
Keep this in mind. AntiFA was Stalin’s answer, in Germany, for the Nazis. It was fascist socialists against Marxist socialists, for control of German socialism, and ultimately, the German state. AntiFA was Marxist funded by the Soviets. That is their anti fascism - Marxism.
AntiFA still are, at their core, Marxists, but probably more Maoist than Stalinist, after the fall of the USSR.
On Portland's streets: Anger, fear, and a fence that divides. AP
This is a fair description of what was happening on the streets from watching live streaming videos for the last three nights. The tear gas was launched in response to fire works and fence shaking. When the crowds were not sufficiently dispersed the feds came outside the fence onto the streets clearing protestors and rioters alike in an indiscriminate violent way.
Neither the violent protestors, nor the violent federal troops are in the right. The federal troops should never have been sent there to begin with, their presence only served to escalate the nightly protests. Just as Trump misjudged the seriousness of Covid, he misjudged sending federal troops into a city that didn’t call for any help. Or he purposely is trying to foment violence. It was seen as an invasion by the people of Oregon and the federal troops have acted mostly like they are dealing with a foreign enemy instead of their own fellow Americans.
This is what Americans will remember about the Trump years. Thank goodness they soon will be over.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LannyDavis/status/1287714169551294464
Lanny Davis u sweatbands who is rioting.
He also understands who the rioting helps.
January 20, 2025 cannot get here soon enough for Royal ass Inga.
"Next can we debate how to pronounce antifa? I say AN-tee-fa to match the phenomes to the morphemes. But t.v. people say an-TEE-fuh."
I just call them "FA" because these politically motivated terrorists practice classic fascist violence and repression.
Inga said...
Trump didn’t send federal troops to protect anything, he sent them there to cause more civil unrest and then blame it on some Antifa like movement.
Leftie Tactic, explained:
Again, wound collecting works very simply, so you have to learn to spot it and stop falling for it:
1) Act badly to provoke a reaction
2) Use reaction of proof of oppression, harm, how dangerous it is, tyranny, etc.
It operates on a blatant double standard of wrongdoing.
Reporters and journalists are not employed at NYT, WaPo, NBC, etc. No, all of those organizations employee Mushroom Farmers, for they keep their readers/viewers in the dark and feed them b.s.
Inga: "The tear gas was launched in response to fire works and fence shaking."
LOL
Lasers. Stabbings. Explosives.
In Inga the Liar World, its all non-existent....except for the stuff Steve Bannon is doing....
Not to worry though. I'll bet Michael Cohen will have lots to say about Trump and the riots in his upcoming book!
The Walls Are Still Closing In!! (this walls closing in thing is taking longer than a Star Wars scene)
Ms. Althouse: Serious question (although discussed in a light tone to bring down the “volume” from many other comments): What would you regard as persuasive evidence that rioters in Portland or Seattle were part of “Antifa”?
Obviously, Antifa is not registered as a 501(c)(3), or with any state corporation commission. There are no boards of directors, officers, or membership lists. No headquarters, registered agent, or clubhouse.
The group appears to avoid even the types of informal connections among individuals that provide a basis for identifying an "organization." Associated individuals can use anodyne language in text chains, disperse into a mob and act as independent provocateurs, etc.
Even the claim of a rioter that he or she was or was not a “member” of Antifa would prove very little, as there are numerous plausible reasons for misrepresentation in either case. A major-media interview of an anonymous “Antifa member”? Same thing, no? (“I am Spartacus!” vs. "First rule of Fight Club"?)
Federal wiretap? Might provide evidence of conspiracy of some identified individuals, but what proves “Antifa” or “Antifa” membership? Team cheer at the end?
Am I missing some type of evidence that would make the case?
Also: why is “Antifa” so talismanic as to warrant great skepticism? Federal and state governments spent decades pursuing “the Mafia” when its members never used that term. Members were identified internally by family connections and familiarity among themselves. Externally, they were identified by association and concerted criminal action. There seems to be evidence of both in Portland and Seattle.
As “Antifa” apparently believes in violence and destruction of property, should we regard as members all those who engage in either during a riot. What difference does it make whether we do or do not so regard them? Should we simply use the term as the main-stream media uses “alt-right”?
No accusations or imputations ad hominem. I’m simply interested in how you see these matters in the wake of all the foregoing disputation. Thanks for your consideration.
Its funny reading that AP article none of the rioters could articulate why they want to burn the courthouse down. AP apparently didn't see fit to ask them. Does anyone know?
Blogger Browndog said...
"Because the NYT, WaPo, NBC/CBS/ABC/CNN etc. do not have a single reporter on the ground.
There's a reason for that."
If a Federal LEO falls screaming to the ground because he/she was struck by an exploding projectile thrown by a "mostly peaceful" Antifa mob and there is no reporter around to witness it, does he/she make a sound?
Inga still thinks Carter Page is a russian spy, so it's not likely she'll read more of this:
From the AP reporter inside the Federal Courthouse: "As she spoke, small pods of three to four protesters dressed in black circulated in the crowd, stopping every few minutes to point green laser beams in the eyes of agents posted as lookouts on porticoes on the courthouse’s upper stories. The agents above were silhouetted against the dark sky as dozens of green laser dots and a large spotlight played on the courthouse walls, projected from the back of the crowd.
Thirty minutes later, someone fired a commercial-grade firework inside the fence. Next came a flare and then protesters began using an angle grinder to eat away at the fence. A barrage of items came whizzing into the courthouse: rocks, cans of beans, water bottles, potatoes and rubber bouncy balls that cause the agents to slip and fall.
Within minutes, the federal agents at the fence perimeter fired the first tear gas of the night."
According to Inga, the AP reporter is lying and none of this happened....except it did happen because hawaiian shirt wearing boogaloo-ers did it....but it didn't happen because the protests are "peaceful"....but it did happen because of Steve Bannon.....but it wasn't happening so there was no reason to send in federal officers....but it was happening for 2 months before the feds showed up because the people were up in arms in righteous anger(!)....but it wasn't happening because it was totally peaceful....but it wasn't peaceful for the 2 months prior to the feds arriving in force because the peaceful protesters knew the feds would be sent in weeks later.....
Every single day Inga turns on a dime with a new lie as her marxist masters require.
Its absolutely no different than watching the 1930's/1940's commies turn on a dime from "keep the US out of Europe's War" to "Second Front Now" as soon as Hitler turned on his pal Stalin.
History begins anew each morning.
Poor, poor, sad deluded Inga.
Kavanaugh was not a gang rape leader and she couldn't get her mind around that...and now even Lanny Davis and Joe Scarborough and the rest realize that antifa riots which Inga claims don't exist (but for which non-stop video streams prove otherwise....hey Inga that's almost as bad as under oath testimony for you!) are hurting the democrat/marxist "brand"!
Poor Inga. She's always, literally, at least 1 week behind updated democrat/marxist/LLR-lefty talking points.
It's a real shame.
Lanny Davis@LannyDavis
Violent protesters lighting fires and using violence in Portland should wear
@realDonaldTrump buttons. That is who they are helping. Progressives in Portland need to call them out, including the Mayor. ReTweet please. Don’t allow violent people help
@realDonaldTrump
5:39 AM · Jul 27, 2020
Pics of things Inga claims don't exist....
It was seen as an invasion by the people of Oregon and the federal troops have acted mostly like they are dealing with a foreign enemy instead of their own fellow Americans.
They're not my fellow Americans and neither are you.
You and your ilk are domestic terrorists. Leftwing, domestic terrorists.
Own it.
Fifty nine Seattle cops were injured this weekend by you and your leftist thugs, Inga.
59.
Going to blame Trump for that, too?
Domestic terrorists. Own it.
Here's a nice shot of the non-existent lasers being used by the antifa's that don't exist during a riot that also doesn't exist...
Of course, if these things that clearly do exist actually exist, then its all Trump's fault and Steve Bannon and Elvis Pressley Beach Movie/Tommy Bahama clothing fanboys as well.
I'm going to guess there will be more than "luck out in the end" to this. Do the marchers really think there aren't informants, possibly wired for sight and sound, among them every night?
Another term favored by the ANTIFA terrorists is "By Any Means Necessary" and some of the Berzerkley terrorists have used that name.
Inga is the Lead Riot Denialist at Althouse.
A coveted sinecure no doubt.
Oh the humanity. I'm running out of popcorn.
Which circumstance provides better evidence of who is doing the violence?
A: Investigative reporters publish reports on who is doing the violence.
B. No investigative reporter publishes a report on who is doing the violence.
Obviously lawyers were critical to setting up antifa to have a plausibly deniable existence, while still enjoying the cachet of an actual organization able to intimidate Media at Will.
I've seen several leftist attempting to claim there are peaceful protesters. (there are good people on both sides?)
Good to know they finally admit President Trump was 100% correct about Charlottesville.
Here is an article on the black bloc. It seems well journalized.
https://www.portlandoccupier.org/2012/02/16/black-bloc-a-brief-history/
It does suggest we are looking at the riots incorrectly and then providing an ineffective action against them.
I would say from this that the ANTIFA group is one of many that benefit from Black Bloc activities. Just based on the videos we see from Andy Ngo. Of the clothing styles in those videos. Black Bloc is a protective generic wrapper given to anyone that wants common security when protesting against the police.
https://www.facebook.com/RepDanCrenshaw/videos/808590713048570/
Inga has it all plotted out, Trump is to blame!
Althouse chopping logic.
Another look at Black Bloc
https://theconversation.com/how-black-blocs-have-changed-protest-movements-around-the-world-80856
I think antifa/BLM has some "fine people" in it and has to be considered as operating in and out of the black bloc effort. The most successful black bloc antifa entrepreneur is probably someone that leads two lives. One in the cooperative media culture and the other in an off the grid garb of black.
A superficial, shallow, and reactionary federal official will never product the correct balance to black bloc.
Howard: "Oh the humanity. I'm running out of popcorn."
And if you are in downtown Portland you can't find anymore...because Howard's Heroes have burned out all the businesses....."peacefully"....during the lefties "summer of love".
It's every bit as "loving" as Inga's "spark of divinity" MS13 machete murderers carving up high schoolers.....in a mostly "peaceful" way.
MarkT refers you to Andy Ngo and you sneer that the quote does not sound like "serious investigative journalism". Why not? Maybe try looking at the relentless, cumulative evidence of Andy's Twitter feed? In an age when "lived experience" is what counts, Andy's scars from close encounters with Antifa are pretty compelling.
Maybe because it does not have a website with a mission statement, you also believe the Mafia does not exist?
Big Mike said...
Ann reads a lot of NYTimes and Washpo and just has a bias that if the story isn't there, it just doesn't exist.
@Gk1, right on!
7/27/20, 10:30 AM
It's not in Pravda, it's not in Izveztia, it's not on TASS, so what am I supposed to make of the ramblings of this whacko Solzhenitsyn? He doesn't look like a journalist.
7/27/20, 7:57 AM
Why not tell us EXACTLY what your "standards" are, as your reliance on the MSM every day for YOUR information marks your "standards" as very low. Perhaps you are so mesmerized by the NYT that you cannot see how debased it has become, leading to your own intellectual debasement.
No true Scotsman. No true Althouse
I guarantee you, Madison is on the list, maybe later down -- when students return? -- but if these riots are not put down by then in the major cities, it will come to your area, and then you can go out and investigate for yourself. PUt your fingers in the nailholes, observe the sword to the side, and maybe just believe?
Chuck said...
There are very fine people on both sides.
7/27/20, 9:41 AM
Don't worry Chucko, when they come to burn her historic but still flammable Madison neighborhood, and she sends Meade out every night to stand a post with the local self-defense organization, you'll have your chance to warm her bed. Especially if he doesn't come back.
Of course there are those who demand that the NYT or WaPo identify the ducks for us just to be certain, even if they are not duck experts, and hate duck hunting in general.
Follow Mike K' s surgical approach. Shoot some, then have the pathologist make sure they're ducks.
Ann, you've never posted your objective standards, and you never will.
I am asking for evidence and a serious pursuit of the truth.
I know you think Antifa is something the right invented last month, but living in the Bay Area for the past thirty-five years I’ve had an opportunity to watch up close the evolution of the hard left: Their low point in the decade following the breakup of the Soviet Union, their rejuvenation with the Seattle Riots of 1999, the way they took over the Oscar Grant protests in 2009 (in classic Maoist-Leninist fashion, threatening non-violent leftists and liberals with death when they took issue with Antifa’s destruction of mostly minority businesses in Oakland), their leadership of the Occupy Oakland strike and riots of 2011, the Trayvon Martin riots in 2013 (journalists beaten by Antifa for covering the destruction once again of minority-owned businesses), and the 2014 Michael Brown riots. By 2016 it appeared the mainstream left in the Bay Area was fed up with Antifa’s terror and destruction and was willing to call them out (see the stories I linked upthread — I presume the LA Times and NBC Bay Area meet your standards for journalism), but then came Trump and you know the rest.
I’ll make a prediction: the moment Antifa’s actions once again cease to serve the interests of the establishment wing of the Democratic Party, the New York Times et al will discover Antifa exists and is problematic (it’s similar to how Democrats rode Cindy Sheehan when Bush was president, then sent her to the glue factory for saying exactly the same things once Obama took office). And at the moment the New York Times discovers Antifa exists and is a problem for America, so will Ann Althouse.
My first thought reading the blog Post title was "Why is Ralph Nader wearing a mask?"
Then I re-read. Oh, Nadler. Mr. Left-wing Fatty. Got it. Him and schiff sure are two weirdos. I don't want to see what their wives look like.
Your missed fans missed you Inga.
Am late to the commenting here, and will guess that this has already been noted but just in case it hasn't, Mayor What's her name's order specifically exempts certain classes of DC folks:
"The enforcement provisions of this Order shall not be applied to persons in the judicial or legislative branches of the District government while those persons are on duty; and shall not apply to any employees of the federal government while they are on duty."
Who knows-- presumably someone in DC-- if senators and representatives are 'employees of the federal government' so far as this masking nonsense goes. I expect that they are, or that they're otherwise exempt ex officio.
236 comments, and I left hours ago at 104.
Looks like I have catching up to do.
Narr
Guys like Nadless give dweebs a bad name
There are rioters. They come out at night. They are welcomed by the protesters who are themselves not directly violent. But it is not the case that Bob’s abstention from violence absolves Jim’s violence when Bob cheers Jim. The reverse is true, and Jim’s actions taint Bob. You want to deny this.
I do marvel at the lengths Althouse will go to avoid admitting the obvious, especially when it means she would be admitting a mistake. The woman is absolutely flawless.
There are rioters. They come out at night.
This is true. I live in Brooklyn near the Barclay's Center which has become the central point for protests and other activities in Brooklyn, and can confirm this pattern: during the day, lots of protesters, a mixture of people of all colors, diverse banners including BLM, Trans/LGBTQ, Palestine, Climate catastrophe, etc. The broad array of left-wing largely peaceful protesters, which I went to check out because my sister and her friend, owner of a CrossFit and part of a black-owned business group that would gather for protests, attended, and I was curious. In the late afternoon to evening, the crowd would change: a lot more scrawny bedraggled mostly white people, black bloc types. The chants would transition from "No Justice, No Peace" to "Fuck the police!" And that was a good time to leave, at least early in the protests, because NYPD was making mass arrests, closing off streets, etc. after a couple of days.
Marc,
The District and all other police cannot disrupt the travel of a member of Congress who is going to a session of Congress. It's in the Constitution.
It was written for an age when the representatives from, say, Massachusetts, had to rise through several states and might otherwise have been detained to rig a vote.
Inga loved the 60's protests in which the main purpose was to get laid by a chick who was down with the cause or went down for the cause. I was there and had a few Ingas in my time. My tastes improved markedly over the years.
She has found a cause that gets those old tired juices flowing again. She 'aint in no way tahred, now.
These are the Democrats we live with today.
Howard said...
Oh the humanity. I'm running out of popcorn.
Howard is safe in his all white suburb.
More blogger bullshit
“Freedom of speech? Association? Peaceable assembly? Ha. Ha. Ha,”
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/07/michelle-malkin-faces-down-radical-left-mob-denver-joseph-klein/
"Michelle Malkin herself was one of the victims of the mob’s assault on the Law Enforcement Appreciation Day rally as she tried to protect one of the participants. She caught what transpired on video and tweeted a portion showing “the moment one of our people was beaten on stage by invading BLM/Antifa.”
"I do follow Ngo on Twitter. I don't remember seeing anything that meets my standards. Link to something specific if you have it. Twitter is a river that flows along constantly. If something in it is important, you need to pull it out and pin it in place somewhere. It's a ridiculous way to present investigative journalism other than to point at someplace where it is done in a stable, comprehensive format. If such a thing exists under Ngo's byline, you should be able to link to it."
I'm not sure what you are looking for. Ngo can only report what he sees and hears.
If a bunch of yahoos rode into Seattle or Portland in pickups, flying American flags and began busting Antifa heads with ax handles, would we assume they were "mostly peaceful" and ignore the guy screaming "Kill The All!" because he wasn't an official spokesperson? Eventually, we have to see what we see and admit what it is. Why wait?
Antifa should not be pronounced An-TEE-fuh, which sounds Latinate, like perhaps some Latin American rock band. It's short for "Anti-Fascist", so it should be pronounced ANTI-FAAHH. The irony of a supposedly "anti-fascist" organization adopting the tactics of the Brown Shirts and Black Shirts shouldn't be ignored.
"The irony of a supposedly "anti-fascist" organization adopting the tactics of the Brown Shirts and Black Shirts shouldn't be ignored."
I've always assumed it's a purposeful joke.
Howard said...
Oh the humanity. I'm running out of popcorn.
7/27/20, 3:47 PM
Oh, I'm positive you got excited when 3 cops were permanently blinded by lasers wielding by your heroes You undoubtedly had an orgasm when the mob murdered a 22 year old mother for saying "All Lives Matter" and when a black Trump supporter was shot to death in broad daylight on Friday. Pass some of the popcorn to Inga, I'm sure such news sets her ancient loins all a quiver too.
Ann Althouse queried...
"Is "Antifa" a useful word or concept? Is it a shibboleth of the right?"
So...Nadler is still hurting from losing the coup attempt, and his head-in-the-sand response is typical of TDS. The Donald, or even members of the right, aren't Harold Hill trying to raise panic just to sell something.
Antifa is not a code word, nor is ascribing violence to it stereotyping. Antifa is real. And its destructive manner is real.
There is a place for rhetoric and fine points, and demands for evidence. But presumption of innocence applies in law. The public judges people’s reputation independently. Al Capone had to be carefully convicted but everyone in Chicago knew he was a killer. We are not stupid. If a fed building is burnt, someone burned it. Call them what you will. Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
Antifa were those people crapping in buckets of straw on the streets of DC and raping women in tents during Occupy. They organized using Adbusters, an upscale Canadian anarchist art magazine. Just because they're ironic doesn't mean the violence isn't real. They lit an Olympic torch runner on fire and tried to murder police. Weeks threatening local residents and business owners while sitting in $1000 tents communicating with the international media that was sucking their toes. 12 police assassinated around the country. Funny! Best to keep quiet about it. Now they're sending hundreds of police to the hospital with serious injuries. Time to play word games. They followed three cops home in Atlanta and firebombed and bricked the cars in their driveways. The media cupped its collective balls. Got the memo. Bullet to the brains of other people's sons and daughters is funny. Not your sons and daughters, so retreat to semantics. RICO-level acts of violent coordination using different stationary means they're innocent, or else the DA or the judge gets bombed. BLM, Antifa, Bread not Bombs. Used to be WU, BLA, Panthers. Dead cops, smell the pork, believe the Times.
I hope the people who deny or enjoy this demonstrate the integeity to deny or enjoy it when it hits home. Consistency's such a bitch.
"I do follow Ngo on Twitter. I don't remember seeing anything that meets my standards. Link to something specific if you have it. Twitter is a river that flows along constantly. If something in it is important, you need to pull it out and pin it in place somewhere. It's a ridiculous way to present investigative journalism other than to point at someplace where it is done in a stable, comprehensive format. If such a thing exists under Ngo's byline, you should be able to link to it."
This viewpoint is probably fairly widespread, but what it says is that your standards need some tuning. This is tilting at windmills.
That “river that flows along constantly” IS the value of someone like Ngo. It’s unedited and unfiltered and raw, kind of like real life. He’s just showing all the stuff the media is afraid to show because they fear it helps Trump.
It is specifically *not* investigative journalism — which is dead now, as far as honest political reporting goes — so don’t criticize it for not being what it is not trying to be.
It is what it is, and you are free to like or not like the way Ngo presents the information, but dismissing it in the hope of someday in some mythical world reading a solid investigative journalism piece that explores Antifa violence is tilting at windmills. It’s just never going to happen, at least while Trump is president. If you don’t see this is true, and understand why, you have a gap in your understanding of the world.
"The irony of a supposedly "anti-fascist" organization adopting the tactics of the Brown Shirts and Black Shirts shouldn't be ignored."
“I've always assumed it's a purposeful joke.”
I did too until their background came out. Our American AntiFA is closely allied to the German AntiFA group, which claims descent from the original AntiFA, which was a Marxist group set up and funded by Stalin to fight Hitler and his Nazis for the heart and soul of socialism in Germany in the early 1930s. They didn’t actually adopt the techniques of the Brown and Black shirts but used them from the first. The fight for control of German socialism was not just political - it was also, at times, very physical, with both socialist groups violently clashing in street fights. One big difference between AntiFA of 90 years ago, and AntiFA today, is that the Soviet Union fell, and so modern AntiFA (German and American) is that they are now more Maoist Marxist, than Stalinist Marxist. All three groups have very similar symbology, flags, and internal verbiage.
It’s an interesting thought experiment about what might have happened if AntiFA had won and the Nazis lost in 1932. Germany could have essentially become a Soviet client state, as part of it became starting in 1945. The iron curtain goes up better than a decade earlier, but with only the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys (French) and over extended British to oppose them. When France falls, the Soviets have an empire that stretches from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Italy and the rest of Europe quickly succumb, leaving only the British.
But I don’t think that that was very likely. One big advantage that the Nazis had over AntiFA was that they were German nationalists. AntiFA owed allegiance to the Soviet Union, that was essentially the Russian empire. All things equal, the Germans of the early 1930s were going to pick the German nationalist group over the Soviet/Russian dominated one. Also, Fascist/Nazi style socialism was specifically designed as a middle class acceptable socialist alternative to Soviet Marxism, which was avowedly proletarian oriented. Marxism was more attractive in countries, like Russia and China, with huge peasant classes and small middle classes, while Fascism was more attractive in countries with much larger middle classes. Like Germany. And that was because the middle class, as well as the wealthy, had a place in Fascism, but not in Marxism (until after Mao in China). Except, as both Stalin and Mao showed, as fertilizer.
Ann, check Michael Tracey's reporting on the riots. Violence has been widespread, and in many places the MSM just doesn't want to mention, something he discovered only by actually visiting the towns in question.
Here in Minneapolis, he interviewed a guy who was arrested, a white kid. That kid said there were people from all over the country in the cells with him. The kid also said that the only people carrying out arson were white.
So yes, it looks like the organized antifa people are in fact responsible for most or all of the violence. But the Times and other liberal media outlets aren't going to report on it, because they don't want that fact to be known.
Interesting Bruce!
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