A reader sent me a link to "What You Need To Know About The Battle of Portland" by Robert Evans (at Bellingcat)(July 20, 2020). Let's see if it's what I'm looking for:
I have been in the streets of Portland documenting this movement since the very first riot. Before the national press unleashes a flood of new stories based on their first few hours in town, I’d like to explain what’s been happening: State and Federal law enforcement are at war with the people of Portland....
[On] May 29th, Portland’s first night of large scale protests in the wake of George Floyd’s death... [a]t 10:35 p.m. local time, the crowd at the Justice Center marched off into the streets of downtown Portland and, several minutes later, met up with the crowd from Peninsula Park. Together, both groups marched back to the Justice Center and surrounded it.Evans is a first-person observer, but he's not interviewing participants and asking them why they are doing what he's seeing them doing. He is only saying what it felt like to him. We're told the crowd had a "mood" and he purports to be able to read that mood and offers the opinion that what happened was "unplanned" and "more or less inevitable." The next sentence is simply an assertion about the basis for his belief that it was inevitable:
At a little before 11 p.m., several dozen protesters began to shatter the windows of the Justice Center. They entered the building, trashing the interior and lighting random fires inside. I watched all this happen from feet away, and it is my opinion that the destruction was unplanned, yet more or less inevitable — you could feel it in the mood of the crowd.
The 3rd Precinct in Minneapolis had just burned: there was absolutely no way Portland wasn’t going to try to do the same thing.Using strong language like "absolutely no way" doesn't make this report more believable. It simply underscores that Evans is saying that the crowd has a mind and he can read it. Where are the human individuals?! Did he talk to anyone? Were they all absorbed into an irrational pyromaniacal mob?
Of course, the Portland Police Bureau (PPB) arrived very shortly thereafter. In one of the more gentlemanly moments of the entire uprising, they gave a warning to people who’d brought their families and dogs, urging them to leave. A sizable chunk of more moderate demonstrators went home.So some portion of the crowd had kept their individual mind and disaggregated themselves from the mob. The reporter on the scene observes chunks of people and, because they followed the advice from the police, labels them "moderate." Did he interview everyone? Did they leave out of fear of the police or because they disapproved of the destructiveness they'd witnessed?
I don't want to copy the entire article, so please go to the link to see the details provided about how the police and the crowd behaved. Evans ends with:
The evening ended with small groups of protesters running through the streets, pursued by officers hanging off the sides of riot trucks and shooting wildly at everyone they saw. It kind of sucked — I have no other words to describe it....This seems to be how it looked and felt to Evans. I find it hard to believe the police would be "shooting wildly at everyone they saw." The police tactics are a matter of serious concern, but separate from my original question about the source of the violence and disorder from the crowd.
The protest on June 1st was distinctly different from anything that had come before. A new group of inexperienced activists took the wheel, and they placed great emphasis on talking with the police and avoiding any confrontation...A new group of inexperienced activists — who were they? Names? Interviews? Background? How do you know they were inexperienced?
This would prove to be the beginning of a split within Oregon’s protest movement. On one end were more moderate liberal marchers, who sought to avoid conflict with the police while engaging in “peaceful protest.” On the other end were more radical demonstrators, who found the rally on June 1st to be pointless. After this night, the two parts of the movement grew further and further apart.All right. There were 2 groups, we're told, and they had very different ideas, we're told. But how does he know this? Who are they? What were their backgrounds? These are completely conclusory assertions.
The more moderate demonstrators coalesced around a new organization called Rose City Justice, which continued to lead mass demonstrations for the next couple of weeks....Again, we're hearing about a chunk of people, the moderates. They coalesced. How does he know? Who are these people?
Meanwhile, the more extreme members of the movement gravitated towards a series of nightly protests around the fence walling the Justice Center and Courthouse off from the rest of the city. Thanks to a joke I made during a livestream, they began calling it the “Sacred Fence.” It has a Twitter account now....So the extremists also have a name, and this reporter is the source of the name. Again, it's a group of people described only in group form, moving en masse. Are there any leaders? Are they too inexperienced activists, or do they come from somewhere? Are they local people?
Go to the link to see what the extremist group did and how the police reacted.
Several times a week, new rallies at places like the North Precinct or the Portland Police Association headquarters would occur. These were often heavily promoted by the anti-fascist group Youth Liberation Front, who are probably the strongest consistent voice for Portland’s radical protest scene....Probably? Who are the other strong voices? Who are the less consistent voices? How many groups are there? Everyone but the Youth Liberation Front is lumped together as the "radical protest scene." Not one individual is interviewed or even described.
I'm skipping a lot of material about the interaction between journalists and the police. It's not that I think this is unimportant, but it doesn't address my question about who is responsible for the violence coming from the protesters. I keep hearing from conservatives that Antifa is behind the riots and saying I don't know that. But why don't I know that?
This article doesn't use the term "Antifa," but it does name the Youth Liberation Front and call it "anti-fascist." The article also refers generically to the "radical protest scene" and gives us the names "Sacred Fence" and "Rose City Justice" for the radicals and the moderates. Are the moderates "peaceful protesters who deserve recognition for their dedication to nonviolence" as I put it in my question, or are they just less violent people who are working to stay out of trouble with the police but supportive of the work of the radicals? Are the moderates more likely to be female? More likely to be black? Are they less likely to be part of a larger left-wing movement (which may or may not be called "Antifa")? I don't know!
So — my questions remain. I'm still looking for high-quality investigative journalism. I wouldn't put this article in that category, because it's on-the-scene eyewitness reporting and not deep research into the background beyond what was visible on the street.
९२ टिप्पण्या:
@Althouse, can you hear my raspberry all the way in Madison? Why not?
"Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT "
Why, oh, why? It's a mystery! And it's sad! They should be better!
Anyway, the revolution will not be reported. And of course, it will help the Althouses of America: there's no evidence there's a revolution going on! no one know who is doing what! it's not in the NYT! And then, at the end: we didn't know! we didn't have the reporting!
"Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?”
That’s a rhetorical question, right? The rioters are doing the work of the billionaire class that owns the media, including the NYT. Thee goal, as near as I can figure, is to bring in a post democratic government more amenable to their peculiar requirements that effectively shit cans the Bill of Rights and permanently protects their current place at the top, not just for them, but their progeny.
The first few nights may have been spontaneous, but not so much anymore.
I'm guessing there is an organization behind it, whether it's Soros or somebody else. I suspect the feds know...if they don't they shouldn't have jobs.
The important thing is, what are they going to do about it?
As the crocodile is busy eating her, feet first, Althouse will be heard to exclaim "But no one has proven to me that crocodiles exist!".
If you've been watching the Portland news for the last ten years you could have seen Antifa
grow and assert itself. You're really purposely obtuse if you think they just sprang from the ground post Floyd.
My reaction to the first-night protest was that the "moderate" protesters who dispersed and went home when so ordered by the police were not protesters at all. They were curious observers, with there children and dogs, and had no skin in the game.
Hmmmm....I wonder if this post deserves an “attack on individualism” tag.
Surely if crocodiles existed the NYT would report on them.
Look at the press releases on the ATF and FBI websites. Quite a few arrests for arson , burglary, Molotov cocktails and looting
This is what is called "leaderless resistance" activity. This was al-Qaeda's modus operandi. Loosely linked, small cells. Hard to penetrate. Hard to arrest/take down the entire 'group.' No one steps forward to call himself the leader. No one claims responsibility, or if responsibility is claimed, it is by some 'group' no one has ever heard of. This was a garden-variety tactic of the PLO, so it could say radical extremists it had no control over were responsible.
Meanwhile, you have fairly clueless people also getting involved in the street who have little understanding that they are mixing with hard-core militants. Perfect cover.
This has been going on since the 1970s with the PLO, then with al-Qaeda. It is nothing new. Everyone 'wink-wink' knew the PLO was complicit in acts by never before heard of groups. Why are you so willfully resistant to seeing that this is a repetition of this pattern in the United States?
You can be sure the federal government is surveilling many of these terrorists, and when the time comes, it will swoop down on them, and the resulting trials will make that of the Chicago Seven look like nursery school.
Check out Michael Tracey.
He's on the left, and his reporting is frequently unhelpful to The Narrative, so the angry left really hate his guts.
I'm quite certain that if it was the Proud 2.4582% Boogaloo Klan that news media around the country would be running with that nonstop. The fact that they aren't is plenty of evidence of who exactly is driving all of this. It's not like Democrat messaging didn't abruptly shift in recent days. Their polls must be dreadful.
Looking for the answer in the NYT? Unless they have a comics section running Dilbert you won’t find it.
So, is your puzzlement driven by the capitalization of the word "Antifa"? Do you take that to mean that there is a formal organization or corporate entity that either people are members of or not? As opposed to mere generic "anti fascists"?
Boy, capitalization is called on to serve many functions in this new socialist order.
Since all these riots has been declared a myth by the Honorable Rep. Jerry Nadler, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the NYTimes or any other MSM outlet to investigate anything.
The article is just a whole lot of words basically saying "I don' know what the F is happening....so I will pretend I can read minds.
Rioting is done by rioters, mostly. I hope this clears things up for you.
On a serious note, Anti1A and BLM have been rioting for years, and shutting down reporting and speech by anyone they deem fascists, which means pretty much anyone but themselves. Why are you suddenly looking for Proud Boogie Cowboys, the “real” culprits responsible for it all?
So — my questions remain. I'm still looking for high-quality investigative journalism.
I'll agree with the harsher emotional reactions to this without adding my own.
Constructively, traditional journalism has been replaced by agitprop and the violent protesters- if not in coordination with leftie media and local politicians and DAs- they at least have parallel interests. Antifa members are smart enough not to expose themselves or their allies. Loose lips sink ships, and all. There's video of an Antifa flag at the Seattle site. It's existence is confirmation it wasn't rejected by any of the protesters, violent or otherwise...
As with all big protests there are loose coalitions of many groups, large and small, all with similar interests...
Go hunt down the arrest books and you'll KNOW who's committing the violence but journalism in the form you're looking for is all but dead.
Do your own homework...
You can be sure the federal government is surveilling many of these terrorists, and when the time comes, it will swoop down on them, and the resulting trials will make that of the Chicago Seven look like nursery school.
Which federal government is that?
I'm still looking for some high-quality investigative journalism about who is responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests.
"Don't look for it, Althouse. You may not like what you find."
"I'm still looking for some high-quality investigative journalism..." Then why are you still reading NYT and WaPo?
News organizations don’t have money anymore for investigative reporters.
The federal government, on the ones charged for serious crimes, will be able to get warrants on cellphones and bank records.
Might be able to discern some affiliation or even structure among those arrested.
They could just be like minded Hooligans. How many people have vandalized, arsoned, or assaulted police or others on a consistent basis will probably not be known without some of the arrested testifying against others.
I didn’t see questions from either Dems or GOP yesterday to Barr about affiliation or structure of Antifa. He’s made some statements in the past about sources of funding that make it seem that there is direction and coordination at a very general level.
Washington Examiner July 13
Washington Examiner July 23
Oregonian June4
Tim Pool did interviews of people in the Proud Boys years ago. Of course they were people and they had different views. They weren't identical. But there was a consistent pattern.
For most part they claimed to be there to defend people from assaults coming from Antifa. And in fact there are films of them doing that.
Tim Pool did try to interview people in Antifa. He had some success but not much. They wore masks. They try to hide their identity. And a funny thing but when the the speech of Antifa is recorded in context and it is put on the web in full, most people come away with a negative opinion.
Now the mainstream media is quite different. They edit everything extensively. They give brief soundbites. And pretty much all of the stupid and violent things that alleged Antifa people say gets edited out.
Of course, there is no firm identification of anyone. Well the Proud Boys were clearly identifiable. They were proud of what they were doing. You know that should be a clue!!!
But the people wearing black and wearing face masks and running around assaulting people, which is the practical narrow definition of Antifa, were all trying to hide their identity.
Except once in awhile someone gets identified. Such as the Berkeley faculty member who was running around whipping a bike lock down on top of the head of Trump supporters and who was identified despite his mask.
You would think he would been charged with felonies.
But no, all this is basically ok in Berkeley, California or at least according to the left it is.
After Charlottesville, The Left taught us that if you "march with" White Supremacists (or even show up just to see what the hubbub is all about), you too are a White Supremacist. I therefore conclude that everyone at a Portland gathering is an antifa rioter / domestic terrorist.
So — my questions remain. I'm still looking for high-quality investigative journalism.
Do you really have any expectation that this will occur? Are there any agencies that you can put your faith in to actually want to get to the truth of this rather than shape the narrative for either ratings or agenda?
I do not even understand the question. The rioters are responsible. If you hear cheering at a baseball game, do you ask “who is responsible for the cheering?”
The rioters are responsible. Individually. And many of them can be heard. Many have been interviewed. You are pretending — yes pretending — that we cannot draw conclusions about the rioters from what they shout, what they say, what they post, what banners they wave, what graffiti they write, who they blind with lasers. You pretend we cannot rely on the expressive actions of thousands of individuals spread over weeks of time.
I think you are begging the question. You quote yourself asking, "Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?" I think the construction of your question is inverted, at least by now. The better question is, "do there remain any genuine protestors focusing on racial and social justice in the midst of the violent rioters?" The violent rioters are quite clear in their objectives - the destruction of American society for it's own sake. I think you don't like the stated answer and hope to make some sense of it by finding some admirable, or at least rational, organizing principle.
During the early days -- back when Umbrella Man was active -- I saw video of a couple of masked young women smashing windows at some store
I remember thinking they looked like somebody's interns.
I linked to a detailed twitter thread and linked AP article by the Associated Press's Chief Justice correspondent. I did that, taking your clearly dishonest earlier request for a ink at face value. I won’t bother to repeat it here, but readers should know of your duplicity.
After Charlottesville...
The strategy used in Charlottesville to trap a person in their car and create a national spectacle has been recreated with protests across the nation. One in particular, in Miami, where they targeted officers in their vehicle, didn't progress the way the predicted. The officers were trained, and their colleagues were nearby.
everyone at a Portland gathering is an antifa rioter / domestic terrorist.
I hesitate to exercise liberal license to indulge diversity dogma in order to color them in blocs; but, they do share common principles, mob mentality, and, perhaps, a common cause.
Significant I think that you chose to not look at any *local* reporting.
Here is a link to some that I found on Instapundit, which I know you read. https://radioink.com/2020/07/29/whats-really-going-on-in-seattle/
One can see at a high level that journalism addresses Charlottesville by its lowest violent participant and then lumped all the attendees in with that category. Everyone agrees with that? A violent narrative?
Then these progressive riots are sliced and diced in a nuanced manner to try and produce a peaceful narrative?
Smart people are pointing out that participants fill a spectrum in both events. Not all looking for violence. How do we separate out the violence from the peace? Regardless of what groups the people are in. I'm all for labeling the KKK as domestic terrorism. Alt-Right is a spectrum-ed group. Many peaceful. Just anti GoP elite. Populists.
I was always taught the value in America was in its peaceful transitions of power. And the ability of the loser to shake hands and try again next election. The George Floyd situation has to fall under that umbrella also. He was a serious felon. Felons lose many rights that are never returned. Should that happen? Did the system pre ordain his future failure? No peaceful transition for George Floyd?
There is violence we can identify in this clash. A violent felon meets a violent policeman. Its been journalized to death but not in an accurate or wise way.
Diogenes made a virtue of poverty. He begged for a living and often slept in a large ceramic jar, or pithos, in the marketplace. He became notorious for his philosophical stunts, such as carrying a lamp during the day, claiming to be looking for an honest man.
We are all Diogenes these days reading for honest journalists online.
Who is responsible??
Well, you now have one group that has redefined "violence" to say that mere property damage or destruction is NOT violence. In fact, they say, such conduct is justice.
SO, finish the equation.
2 + 2 = ??
That's who is responsible.
"Hmmmm....I wonder if this post deserves an “attack on individualism” tag."
Interesting suggestion. Thanks. But I'm going to say no, because there's no overt attack, just an inference, evidence of not seeing peopole as individuals.
Blogger Ken B said...
I linked to a detailed twitter thread and linked AP article by the Associated Press's Chief Justice correspondent. I did that, taking your clearly dishonest earlier request for a ink at face value. I won’t bother to repeat it here, but readers should know of your duplicity
****
I don't find Althouse duplicitous. Just a professor with a keen mind for an edge to society outside of my ability to comprehend. We all have bias. I constantly misjudge Scott Adams and he seems to know a huge percentage of his audience will jump to wrong conclusions.
The lesson I am getting is that it takes effort to think well and then to debate well. And how does one learn how to do it if one never attended a college? So I don't think you should assume your txt wasn't read or considered. The issue might be a persuasive one on your end.
I don't know if the blog editors here troll people consistently. I tend to think not as it seems they are interested in pushing forward certain lines of thinking. I tend to get banned if I talk from the hip instead of aiming. :-) YMMV.
From the University of Montana Kaimin student newspaper (Go Griz): Thank Your Local Antifa
In fact, what came as a surprise was Antifa’s brief moment in the sun in the wake of Charlottesville. As the country watched the news coverage of the Unite the Right rally, they saw neo-Nazis and members of the “alt-right” and KKK beating protesters. They witnessed white supremacist terrorism as a man drove his vehicle into a crowd of protesters, murdering activist Heather Hayer. They watched the police escort white supremacists to their vehicles but stand by as protesters were beaten. And they watched armed groups like Antifa and Redneck Revolt protect the church where Cornel West was speaking, making sure clergy members made it safely to their car.
On Democracy Now, Cornel West was clear about his view of Antifa: “The anti-fascists… they saved our lives, actually. We would have been completely crushed, and I’ll never forget that.”
Logan Rimel, parish administrator at University Lutheran Chapel of Berkeley, California, traveled to Charlottesville to stand with his fellow parishioners. He had this to say about the condemnation of Antifa he heard from fellow liberals and Christians:
“They came to defend people, to put their bodies between these armed white supremacists and those of us who could not or would not fight . . . . My safety . . . was dependent upon their willingness to commit violence. In effect, I outsourced the sin of my violence to them. I asked them to get their hands dirty so I could keep mine clean.”
This is, in fact, the actual history of nonviolent resistance in the US. To white liberals who are quick to pull out their favorite MLK nonviolence quotes: please know that you are whitewashing his legacy. The narrative of the peacefulness of the Civil Rights Movement versus the militancy of the Black Panther Party was always ahistorical.
To my fellow Montanans I say: support your local Antifa. You never know when you’ll need protecting.
Althouse does not understand mob behavior.
Individuals do not exist within the mob.
That is literally the psychological position of what had been individuals when they enter the mob.
Willful blindness is an awful look.
Where violent action is being urged, or actually manifested, by black-clad masked individuals demanding far-left changes, graffiti of the Antifa logo is commonly found. Does this count as evidence that the people who leave the Antifa logo are members of, or acting in concert with, Antifa? I think it's strong circumstantial evidence.
Do you think the journalism you seek would be so elusive if the real culprits were not leftists? Sometimes when something is hard to find it's because someone is hiding it.
It has been quite a while since journalism has been about reporting. At least since the Vietnam war. Although the case can be made that reporting hasn't been the goal since the first printing press.
Follow the money. Not to REPORT on it but to cash in. That is what journalism is about. Access to levels of power to either make or break them for fun and profit.
Curious people who look into the seamy undersides of things and report back to the public are born, not made in J-school. They are still out there doing their thing but not at NYT or WP because they are freelancers with no pedigree.
Andy NGO, for one.
"Hmmmm....I wonder if this post deserves an “attack on individualism” tag."
It is not diversity dogma if they share principles that endorse the act or take affirmative action as a mob.
I'm still looking for high-quality investigative journalism.
Aren't we all, professor. Aren't we all.
"I'm still looking for some high-quality investigative journalism about who is responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests."
And you're never going to get it because your sainted NYT, WaPo, et al. will not publish reports which make their allies look bad.
You keep asking the question, "But why don't I know that?" as if you don't have an inkling as to why there's no reporting. That's hard to believe.
Lack of real newspapers is why the current generation of politicians prosper. Another thing you Boomers have to answer for.
"Evans is a first-person observer"
He's also a blatant propagandist. Hitler was a first-person observer. Mao was a first-person observer. Castro was a first-person observer. Vlad the Impaler was a first-person observer.
Why you don’t have this journalism is because this journalism doesn’t exist in the media you frequent. The business model for that media has changed to advocacy. It pays better.
You will have to find media that still does journalism. It’s not the NYT or the WashPost.
Portland is something of an outlier, because this has been going on in Portland for years. I would say that the voters of Portland are responsible. They elected Ted Wheeler, and he is encouraging the rioters.
Of course, we have had vote-by-mail here in Oregon since '98. It may well be that we have not had an honest election since.
"The rioters are responsible."
Their eager enablers (that is, the Democrat Party) also share the responsibility.
Somebody keeps asking for perfect ":investigating reporting" then ignores it.
Hmmmm
Iowahawk said it best : " Journalism is about covering important stories. With a pillow, until they stop moving."
“The evening ended with small groups of protesters running through the streets, pursued by officers hanging off the sides of riot trucks and shooting wildly at everyone they saw. It kind of sucked — I have no other words to describe it....“
Did this person read what xhe had written before it was published? The police must have seen hundreds of people, and every one of them was shot at. The morgues must have been filled with dozens of dead protestors.
Seems to me Breaking the glass to enter, then trash the building properly elevates the "protesters" to rioters. A field promotion, as it were. The NYT cover that transition accurately? That's funny material right there, NYT accurately? Funny shit, I tell ya!
"Unknown" @ 3:51: "...leaderless resistance." Very well stated. I hope you're correct that the Federal government (if not state and local LEO) is making a list and checking it twice, and in due course will deplete the network of some of the more effective nodes.
Alternatively I suppose citizen-journalists can record the antics and the perpetrators, post the data for crowdsourcing to get names and addresses, and then people can pay them a visit. Because that kind of individual initiative is now much more possible (thanks, Interwebz!) and, in the absence of effective governmental action, it will become much more necessary. Presumably these freedom fighters have briefed their parents that they may get some unusual callers.
Cut the bullshit. We ALL know who is behind this.
bellingthe cat, is european version of fusion, they were the source of that dodgy bounties story,
Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT
Because people are scared shitless.
Andy Ngo has documented those actually arrested in Portland. Someone needs to investigate who these people really are. How did they get there. Who pays them.
"I keep hearing from conservatives that Antifa is behind the riots and saying I don't know that. But why don't I know that?"
Althousians who are familiar with the books of 4 Nephi and Ether will know the answer to that question.
Sounds as if Althouse is employing the No True Scotsman logical fallacy, renaming it No True Journalism. Since what's occurring in Portland doesn't meet her "standards" of what journalism is, it isn't "true" journalism.
Birkel said...
Althouse does not understand mob behavior.
Individuals do not exist within the mob.
That is literally the psychological position of what had been individuals when they enter the mob.
Willful blindness is an awful look.
***************
I'm sure Anna Wintour can help Miss Ann improve her "look".
Night said "I don't find Althouse duplicitous.
Just a professor with a keen mind for an edge to society outside of my ability to comprehend.
>>There's yer problem, right there. You are ceding the intellectual field to her, based on your apparent low self-esteem, rather than take her on.
Others here have better opinions of ourselves, and are thus prepared to argue "on the merits".
(but she rarely does. She often accuses people of misunderstanding her, or not getting her "argument" right---NEVER does she wind up conceding at the end of the day that her mind has been changed).
This search is tiresome, everyone knows who is responsible. They just don't Can't agree on who it is. Why do suppose that is? Because there is no value in sussing that out, to the individual goals and objectives of the perpetrators and their opponents.
High quality structural analysis would show it's a system that the left is free-riding on. The media need clicks because they sell eyeballs to advertisers, there's a market for the fiction that the audience is living in the left's narrative, and it's fun to be on the scene watching "history", e.g. narrative, being made.
If you're on the left, you're happy in lockstep with it.
Intention doesn't exist except as a marker in an account given later.
Women vote for whoever seems to mean well, regardless of idiocy.
You'll have to wait for the RICO indictment for conspiracy to import and distribute illegal fireworks, the result of undercover BATF investigations. Because no reporter is going to attempt to answer the question, "Hey, where are all these deadly fireworks coming from?"
Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying offer an interesting take on Portland. They are there! Well worth your time if you want to understand what is going on in the Rose City.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-U95sRfCKU
Who is responsible for the violence and disorder? How about the guy pouring gasoline on the fire.
Left Bank,
I too think George Soros deserves some blame if in fact he is paying for these mobs.
And the Chinese who are contributing, too.
I'll explain the recommendation to follow Michael Tracey. He had been traveling the country talking to people, and he recently wrote about what he's been hearing. He also expressed amazement that the media has no interest in publishing these stories.
https://medium.com/@mtracey/two-months-since-the-riots-and-still-no-national-conversation-12a7e3e4e006
I meant to say that I'll *second* the recommendation for Michael Tracey. Stupid autocorrect.
Althouse,
I've been posting here for 10+ years. You know me.
I also live in Oregon
Rose City Antifa is more than 10 years old and regularly seizes city streets from the police and attacks random motorists that fail to obey their whims
They also attack any pro police or pro-America groups
They are very real, very organized yet diffuse and are very violent
It's all about power and anarchy
The PDX government and its muzzled police are afraid. very afraid
What Althouse seks is called "reporting," not "journalism." Reporting covers who, what, when, where, why. Journalism promotes a previously selected narrative. We have wayyyyyy too much journalism in the US today, and damn little reporting.
I tracked online and then personally monitored the protestors for over a week before and during the 2012 Republican Convention. They arrived from all over the country with the stated intent to "cop-block" (assault police) and shut the convention down. The GOP and county taxpayers, me included, spent millions reinforcing and barricading the convention grounds, guarding events, and protecting a handful of public areas. Restaurants hoping to cash in lost big. Small businesses just closed. Any honest person understands that merely the threats to destroy property cost decent people a lot of money. I videotaped rioters flinging glass bottles at police, who handed out plastic bottles of water to them and otherwise were not permitted to engage the thugs as they took over public parks, leaving unbelievable piles of garbage, debris -- and scabies and lice outbreaks. I entered one camp dressed to fit in and recorded professional activists working on expensive laptops in expensive tents. Residents fled the city and were advised to not go to work. I spoke with poor people literally terrified to call police lest they piss off the hundreds of "campers" who took over their neighborhoods on the east side. Repeat, coordinated efforts were made to storm the convention center. Convention goers could not enjoy the waterfront they paid to rent. Code Pink infiltrated the convention and interrupted speeches over and over -- and police weren't even allowed to arrest them. Antifa and/or Cop-Block vandalized the power plant in Apollo Beach and created a public safety emergency by chaining themselves to the entrance gates using techniques that took hours to safely dismantle. There was serious concern that the anhydrous ammonia tanks at Port Sutton, less than a mile from the convention center would be vandalized too -- which would kill thousands or even tens of thousands of people. I imagine we all paid to protect the port through Homeland Security.
The local newspapers did little accurate reporting. Don't tell me anything is "unknown" about these planned and violent riots.
C'mon Ann, you're smarter than that. It's the Peace Corps.
Do you suppose that Antifa thugs are registered to vote? I assure you that they are. (How could anyone so obsessed with politics not be registered to vote?)
And I would further hypothesize that antifa thugs are not registered as Republicans.
What it suggests is obvious.
And this is why I’ve given up on reading Althouse. Got here from Reynolds. I agree with Shouting Thomas: Althouse is a Marxist hiding under a veneer of lawyerly neutral cruelty.
It really isn't that complicated.
What's being attacked by the mob? What does the graffiti tell you about the mob's motivations, views, opinions, goals? When the mob speaks - there's plenty of audio of members of the mob mouthing off - what do they say?
Who's in Portland today who believes those things?
What group(s) in Portland have expressed "violent attitudes" and have demonstrated a willingness to engage in the same, based upon past behavior?
When they've done that, who / what have been their targets? Are there similarities between their targets "then" and the targets being hit "now"?
This isn't a criminal trial, Ann; the evidence doesn't need to meet the burden of proof for a criminal conviction.
Someone (like a competent journalist) should ask one of the "antifa" people to name one American fascist.
I'm a news buff but I cannot think of a single one.
Are they "against" people who do not exist?
If so, local psychiatrists, call your office.
We know plenty about all this--not everything but enough to know when we are being gaslit, which we are.
If you are waiting on honest information from NYT, WaPo, CNN, ABC, CBS or other FORMERLY reputable news sources, you are Waiting for Godot. They are too busy lying to you, by commission and omission.
Left Bank pretty much has it nailed. They will continue the rioting, the arson, the looting, the vandalism, until we vote the way they demand. He might not put it that way, but that’s what it boils down to. The left are infuriated by the way America voted.
He knew they were "inexperienced" because he had just graduated them from Marx Soros Academy of Political Violence earlier that day.
"Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT "
Seven Million Ukrainians from 1931-1933 asked the exact same question.
"I keep hearing from conservatives that Antifa is behind the riots and saying I don't know that. But why don't I know that?"
The fact that no one with the mainstream press has reported on who these people really are should - in connection with all the sources designated unacceptable - really answer the question by itself.
If these people were truly white nationalists - or could even be traced to some type of far right group by the most tenuous of gossamer ties - does anyone seriously maintain that the mainstream press (who have, you will recall, announced en masse that they must be part of the Resistance(!)) would not have reported it? If these arsonists and rioters were in any way right wing by the most tortured interpretation, we would be hearing nothing *but* that fact on every channel 24/7.
The press is the dog that didn't bark in the night. So stop acting like Watson.
The University of Montana has lost about 25% of its student population over the last few years. Montana State U has grown about that much . Why?
There is no violence or disorder. Nothing to see here, comrade. Mind your own business and move along.
"On June 22, I wrote,"Why isn't there more reporting in the NYT about who's responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests?"
Come now. it's the NYT, which giveth me one more opportunity to say that I despise, detest, and distrust the NYT (and its little dog WaPoo, too!)
So — my questions remain. I'm still looking for high-quality investigative journalism.
Don't ask me, I only know one person who voted for Nixon.
"AA states - I'm still looking for some high-quality investigative journalism about who is responsible for the violence and disorder accompanying the protests."
Ann, you won't find any since your own sources are primarily derived from the NY Times,WaPo and the MSM, whose sole purpose is to push a political narrative. But check this reporting out:
https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/30/portland-oregon-protest-riots-assault-federal-troops-trump/
Who is responsible for the violence and disorder? How about the guy pouring gasoline on the fire.
Predictably, Left Bank ignores who started the fires in the first place.
As the Drill SGT said, Rose City Antifa has been active in Portland for 13 years. The Portland government is complicit in their activity. A couple of years ago, a man drew his gun to protect himself from a threatening antifa mob. Was the mob arrested for intimidation? No., the man was arrested and convicted of assault with a deadly weapon. He's appealing.
Andy Ngo was assaulted last year, sustaining a concussion with brain bleed. The police have arrested no one, even though Andy got everyone on tape.
Ted Wheeler is an accessory, if not a member of antifa. The District attorney supports antifa. The mayor's race this year is Ted Wheeler vs the antifa candidate.
We drive through Portland on the way to vacation in Ashland (two trips canceled so far this year). I no longer make overnight reservations in Portland, but make our reservations in Tigard, which is 30-minutes south. I will not spend any money in Portland.
I'll tackle two of your questions...
Q: I want to know who is doing the violence! Is it Antifa?
A: Probably the wrong question to ask. The better question is where are the pallets of bricks coming from, etc. Also a narrower question on high-priced items, like the laser-show grade lasers and the mortar-fired fireworks. Those probably come from FX companies, likely reported stolen. But most of the violence is just young people with limited future prospects and an opportunity to get away with violence.
Q: Where is the investigative journalism?
A: Sidelined by Gresham's law for information. When quick-hit superficial reporting can capture the imagination, long-term investigation never gets off the ground. It is an uneconomical allocation of resources.
Final point, related to the same sorts of questions: a lot of the responsibility for violence rests with the mayors and police chiefs, who use deployment of forces and withholding of forces to signal permitted targets. Don't go to Lori Lightfoot's home, you will be met with force far from your destination. But the path to the Portland federal building is and will remain undefended, with the feds restricted to stay inside. It takes no investigative journalism to see this official hand guiding and directing the violence, so there is nothing for an investigative journalist to dig into. Selective policing is brazenly out in the open, unremarked-upon.
The most informed investigative journalist covering the Seattle and Portland violence is Andy Ngo, who I assume you at least heard about before. He'll be dismissed as a fabulist by the left because he is an right-leaning activist journalist, but he's been on the covering protests there for years now.
Those "new" groups you highlighted by name above? Rose this or whatever, etc.? He previously identified them as the newest operating names of the local antifa organization. According to Ngo, the local antifa group is media savy and basically offered up some d/b/a's when the right successfully associated antifa with violence.
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