"But more liberal parts of the state were clamping down. In Dane County, home to the capital of Madison, officials quickly imposed a mandate incorporating most of the statewide order. City health officials in Milwaukee said a stay-at-home order they enacted in late March remains in effect."
From "Court ruling opening Wisconsin brings concern, Trump praise" (Wisconsin State Journal).
Quoted in the article:
1. The Tavern League of Wisconsin (to its members): "You can OPEN IMMEDIATELY!"
2. Donald Trump (on Twitter): "The Great State of Wisconsin, home to Tom Tiffany's big Congressional Victory on Tuesday, was just given another win. Its Democrat Governor was forced by the courts to let the State Open. The people want to get on with their lives. The place is bustling!"
ADDED: What troubles me is that the excesses of the lockdown fomented a protest movement and a division into teams — discussed here, earlier this morning. I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
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१८८ टिप्पण्या:
My FB friends from Wisconsin are proudly posting pics of themselves and their friends celebrating the end of Prohibition in bars.
On Wisconsin!
"But more liberal parts of the state were clamping down."
Ways to rewrite the sentence to avoid the apparent paradox please.
This is liberty vs tyranny.
The difference could not be more obvious.
Democrats have made it clear what they want for the country. They will do this every flu season. Only “essential businesses will be allowed to operate.
It is time for deep thoughts.
It seems stupid to me, guaranteed to restart the virus where you want general distancing to keep the reinfection rate very low in order to kill off the virus. The problem isn't that the bar is open but that the people are acting badly in it.
On the plus side, it raises the herd immunity rate among the stupid, who are a good percentage. Walmarts will be the first stores to be generally safe, eventually.
Well this type of study is not randomized nor is a double blind but at least we have examples of two different types of behaviors. Unfortunately we don't have that contact tracing in place to analyze the results.
I am going to try to repost this from another comment below, because I think it is apt here. If Althouse doesn't approve, so be it:
I want to hear all about Althouse's travails in the great flu pandemic of 1968-1969 (Hong Kong flu). She was 17 or 18 that year. Did she make it to Woodstock that summer? How many rock concerts did she miss? How many dances and social gatherings were cancelled because of the lock down? Oh, there was no lock down.
100,000 Americans died--more than the Vietnam War! There were 201 million Americans then. If coronavirus is as deadly, that would be over 164,000 dead with today's population.
Althouse, tell us about it. What did you do in 1968-1969 to deal with the deadly Hong Kong flu. Was that the summer you were a waitress in a restaurant?
Two months ago, when we knew little about the virus, general lockdown orders were undoubtedly over-reach, but understandable (I'm reminded of the classic observation about advertising budgets--half the money is wasted, but it's impossible to know which half).
Today, however, a general lockdown is legislative malpractice. We know which groups and settings are at high risk and we know which groups and settings are not. Treating them all the same should be criminal.
rhhardin, agreed. That one is able to do something doesn't mean one should do it. I think restrictions are a trampling of rights. But I wouldn't be out circulating freely if they were removed.
Rhhardin: have you been following what Steve Mosher has been posting on and then there's physics? A recent preprint estimates that covid-19 herd immunity could be driven to as low as 20% with appropriate distancing and targeted isolation measures in place. That's what's so frustrating these idiots are fighting the best way to get to herd immunity
So Achilles do you oppose the use of masks in public? I'm curious because obviously the anti mask movement is a people's Republic of China intelligence operation to defeat President Trump. Are you a unwitting co-conspirator or a traitor to your nation?
Now we see the payoff to the distortion of such words. The more liberal parts would not clamp down, because that is not liberty. Maybe "socialist", but is it social to prevent people from socializing? I see nothing progressive about draconian laws. I'm not even seeing the communal aspects of what Wisconsin governor wants to do. Authoritarian dictatorship seems to me the most appropriate descriptive words.
Originally, we were told the reason for the shutdown was to slow the spread of the virus. Now, it's to kill it off.
There are lots of viruses out there. I wonder how many have been confirmed to have been killed off.
Kinda funny how the ultra liberal impresarios and hipster venue-owners are having to suck it up and toe the line here in Missoula.
Our fattest cat was reduced to begging his crowd to understand, calling himself a severe Democrat and swearing his allegiance to leftist causes, but please we gotta open asap $$$$ lol.
And the response was that obviously he valued MONEY over HUMAN LIFE!!
LOL.
The beginning of defeat for the Rockefeller/Gates planned killing spree. Celebrate more than VJ Day.
The traffic in Atlanta is back to normal today. We win, they lose.
*rebels
Liberals clampdown. Evergreen.
So wait until the predictable celbratory excess is over before going out yourself. A simple solution that tramples on noone else's rights.
It's the Leave me alone & Govt is too damn big Team vs the Govt is always right Team [but only when Dems control the courts & legislatures and exec branches].
It's not a mystery to most of us but you seem to be unaware or just playing dumb.
I was on board when they said stay home a few weeks to flatten the curve to keep our medical systems from being over run. That time has passed. We have the medical capacity. Now is the time to let every one manage their own risk. If you do not want to go to work, a bar, a ball game, a restaurant then stay the fuck home. Stop with managing my risk. I can do that just fine.
I was on board with lock up to flatten the curve to keep our medical systems from being over run. That time has passed. Let us all manage our own risk now. If you do not want to go to work, a park, a ball game, a bar, or out to eat then stay the fuck home. I will stay out of places like nursing homes where people are at greater risk.
A complete lockdown was irrational.
Requirements that the general populace suddenly be required to wear masks every time they step out of the house is irrational.
Taking a fully equipped United States aircraft carrier out of commission for fear of a virus was irrational.
Governors ordering doctors not to treat patients with a treatment that has proved effective because Orange Man Bad is irrational.
Governors, not just Dictator Cuomo, but apparently others, ordering nursing homes, filled with the most vulnerable to infection part of the population, take in infected people is irrational.
You wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care? When everything about it has been irrational? How do you propose that the irrational way this virus has been dealt with turn into rational?
Eager rebels. Those were once the people of the left. Now they're all a bunch of conformist sheep.
These rebellious and/or celebratory crowds almost never turn into a surge in the outbreak though. Florida spring breakers were excoriated. Wisconsin voting was supposed to kill everyone. Michigan protests are putting lives at risk.
And yet, that isn't what seems to really cause outbreaks these days.
Because they are free Americans. Between 50 and 90% of all positive test subjects are asymptomatic. Only 7% of COVID deaths are people under 50. It is important to get this part of our population out and active again, both for economic health and herd immunity. That is why they are happily crowded in there. Very little danger to them or ANYONE ELSE from this. You need to understand this Althouse. The risk outside old/fat/diabetic demographic is very low. Risk of recession right now is super duper high. Think about that. Very low risk to resume normalcy for EVERYONE under 50, if healthy under 70. We can’t endure another week of 2 million more unemployed. So no it shouldn’t be right left at all. We can all work together.
rhhardin : "The problem isn't that the bar is open but that the people are acting badly in it."
Unprecedented.
This isn’t risky at all for most people. And it isn’t stupid. Even if it was stupid it’s no longer any of your concern.
REBELS? Versus what? Good citizens? Your slip is showing again.
" What troubles me is that the excesses of the lockdown fomented a protest movement and a division into teams."
How should people react to governments excesses if not with protests? In areas where the government did not over react there has not been a strong protest movement.
Here in Texas we had a few protests the week before they opened things up and now that restrictions have been lifted everyone is moving back to living their lives. People are good at assessing personal risk and determining what risks they are willing to take. As much as the media and many people in some government administrations would like it to be true the New York is all alone in how badly they reacted to the virus and we will never have the number of cases New York has.
Care needs to be taken to protect the vulnerable. Others should get on with their lives. The supposition that we can avoid this virus without destroying the country is and has been foolish.
“Flattening the curve” was about husbanding hospital resources, not about eradicating the virus - as I’m sure New Zealand, my second home, will soon discover.
@tim maguire,
100% agree. At the beginning I thought a lockdown was the responsible and necessary reaction. I had been reading accounts online about the virus (in Italy, etc.) that were horrifying. We had every reason to prepare for the worst. But that's over now. Yes, the virus is still out there, so we should exercise some caution and restraint. But it's time to stop giving in to unnecessary panic, and move forward. Life goes on.
I'm Not Sure said...
Originally, we were told the reason for the shutdown was to slow the spread of the virus. Now, it's to kill it off.
There are lots of viruses out there. I wonder how many have been confirmed to have been killed off.
Smallpox. My fear is that there are weaponized samples still around in more than one nation's secret labs.
Can't think of any other that's been wiped out in the wild.
It's so unseemly that you're celebrating an overbearing, overreaching government getting told back down.
AA does not approve of the eager plungers. Wonder how much they overlap with the bitter clingers.
I am an eager "let the people decide for themselves-er." Neither plunging nor cowering nor pretending that my preferred choices should be forced upon others.
Stop with managing my risk.
Exactly this. The only bar I'd go to right now, though, is one with outdoor seating. Fresh air and Sunshine lower transmission risk of anything (except pollen).
Woodstock was in the summer, so the virus wasn't active then.
Otherwise it would have been 3 beautiful days of peace, love and respiratory failure.
Lucky, lucky boomers.
Where do the viruses go in the summer?
Do they have a condo in the Aleutians or a time share on Svalbard?
-everyone has corona virus.
-nobody has corona virus, but will get it when they get near somebody without protective gear.
New Zealand is my spiritual home too. It must be the hobbit in me. Or maybe the gollum.
Nick's Bar in Platteville, in far southwest Wisconsin, posted a 30-second video late Wednesday that showed the bar teeming with people drinking, talking and bobbing their heads to music... But more liberal parts of the state were clamping down.
"Don't 'dance walk'."
Many people, myself included, checked out when the goalposts were moved from "bending the curve" to "quarantine will continue indefinitely until we can guarantee no one will die". This is not a sustainable or rational response. Pretending this is a practical approach is pure folly.
There was a great comment on the IMAO blog today, that there are two cartoonish faces to modern "liberalism:" Baby Huey, and Bluto. The pandemic has certainly brought out the Bluto side.
Howard: So Achilles do you oppose the use of masks in public? I'm curious because obviously the anti mask movement is a people's Republic of China intelligence operation to defeat President Trump. Are you a unwitting co-conspirator or a traitor to your nation?
In late March, the median best case prediction in Idaho for Wuhan virus caused serious illnesses was 25,000 people.
Hospital admissions since then: 212. ICU: 88.
The predictions were 99% wrong. And that is in a state where three quarters of people don't wear masks in public. And lots of people go out in public, because aside from restaurants and personal care businesses, there are few and lightly enforced restrictions. Oh, and state park attendance is setting records this year, with people who seemingly don't care particularly about social distancing, and not at all about masks.
Are you a willing conspirator in the crushing of personal freedom, or just don't care about reality?
Maybe an "and" would be better in the previous sentence.
I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care,
What happened to emotions are better than reason?
"But more liberal parts of the state were clamping down"
WTF does the word "liberal" even mean any more? It's certainly not related to "liberty".
3 m, 6 if you follow the precautionary principle... or full body condom, don't forget the goggles. As for the virus self-aborting in a planned event, it's out, it's proud, and has found uncountable sanctuary bodies. It will be back and herd immunity for this class of virus will likely be achieved through innate immunity, not acquired, or conferred.
“Flattening the curve” was about husbanding hospital resources
Was to compensate for the social contagion forcing a misalignment of resource consumption, cross-contamination (e.g. Planned Parent), and xenophobic opposition to curbing globalism and reducing immigration reform (i.e. carriers).
-The people with corona virus have no symptoms, don't even know they have it.
-The people without corona virus will catch it from somebody that has it, and end up on a ventilator and overwhelm the hospitals.
I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
"Eager rebels" and "celebratory crowds" tend to get more press than those who exercise "rational care".
There are lots of viruses out there. I wonder how many have been confirmed to have been killed off.
None. Even smallpox still exists.
"I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds."
Actually, such celebrations should be expected. Port cities live for such behavior whenever the Navy comes to town after a long sea-cruise--the bars swell with port-leave-pay and the professional ladies are happy.
Since we are being reduced to animals via the medical professionals referring to Herd Immunity, it would only be expected we would act like horses restricted to the barn for months with no exercise. Them horses are finally let out chomping at the bit.
To get the economy started, as King Henry V said at the gates of Harfleur: Let Loose The Dogs of War.
Let's all drink to that.
Blogger Mike (MJB Wolf) said...
"This isn’t risky at all for most people. And it isn’t stupid. Even if it was stupid it’s no longer any of your concern.,
Bears repeating...
The excesses of the lockdown are that it was continued, and expanded, as the data accumulated showing that for the great majority of people the lockdown was at best ineffective but generally a useless and unjustified exertion of state power.
"I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds"
Implicit in the claim is that rationality is something that "we" manage, instead of a feature of decisions made by individuals, weighing the costs and benefits of their own actions. Who are you to tell them, "instead," what's rational?
I don't recall Althouse making the argument that we "could" enter lockdowns with rational care. Of course, in fact, the lockdowns were themselves irrational and careless.
Are the celebratory crowds at risk of disease? If they are mostly young and healthy, there's nothing irrational about them, even in the collectivist Althousian sense, and they show care by speeding up herd immunity.
"They will do this every flu season."
Only when there is a Republican in the WH.
I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
This the "rebound" effect from over-officious actions by the government. Instead of trampling civil rights, the government could have played it more loosely and looked to garner (can I use that?) compliance from the community by developing a partnership with businesses and citizens on a best practices format. People, even those incorrigible right-wing nuts, actually want to work together and protect life. But when you ignore them or demonize them, you set up a confrontational environment. This is clearly a failure in leadership. They chose dictatorship over persuasion.
As for "plunging into celebratory crowds" is concerned, be aware that many people have been out of quarantine for some time now. I went to a garden center last weekend and couldn't believe the crowd. I've also noticed the traffic on the local freeways has increased greatly in the last month. People will accept practical ideas. There is nothing practical about Karen's plan for life with Covid19.
I would argue that the lockdown exacerbated transmission of the flu. Headline in today’s Chicago Tribune: Lake Front to Remain Closed.
If there is one true statement in all the blather, it is that fresh air and sunlight tend to kill the virus. So what do Chicago politicians do? They close the parks and the lakefront. I don’t know who is telling them to do this, but it is stupid and dangerous.
It is pretty clear that most transmission occurs in poorly ventilated environments where there is lengthy exposure— let people get outside!
Freedom from Andrea Palms tyranny is something to celebrate.
The people participating in "celebratory crowds" are those in least danger from the virus. I doubt you will see too many nursing home residents there.
As for "plunging into celebratory crowds" is concerned, be aware that many people have been out of quarantine for some time now.
Also be aware that in many parts of the Country that aren't NYC or Madison....individuals never did quarantine. Or just slightly altered their lives.
However, businesses are taking the hit in many places. Unnecessarily being destroyed.
Platteville: so far from God and so close to Dubuque.
If Dane County and Madison remained closed for another year, what is the harmful affect on the rest of the State? I'm all for it. There's really no output, except strapping young Wisconsinites with debt. The counties that produce more than pretend prestige actually add to Wisconsin's economy. Madison just sucks resources out of the rest of the State, all while looking down their woke noses.
Madison will open for the fall school year. It's a dead town without the University. It'll magically be all better by then.
Propose we stop all driving until no fatal accidents occur. When after 14 days of no fatalities, we may resume driving at half posted limits. It is only reasonable. Anyone over 65 years of age must remain indoors or those rebels face incarceration. As soon as we clear all the shorteyes out of the jails.
A friend of mine was telling us a story his nurse wife related to us. She was talking to a lady on the phone who was having a stroke.
Having. A. Stroke.
When asked why she wasn't going to the ER immediately, she said she wasn't going to go because she was afraid of catching CV19.
I guess Madison is now that town in Footloose where you're not allowed to dance.
Koot Katmandu said... I was on board when they said stay home a few weeks to flatten the curve to keep our medical systems from being over run. That time has passed. We have the medical capacity. Now is the time to let every one manage their own risk. If you do not want to go to work, a bar, a ball game, a restaurant then stay the fuck home. Stop with managing my risk. I can do that just fine.
100% agree.
Staying home for a few weeks even a month, was not too much to ask. I don't want to get sick and certainly wouldn't want to make anyone else sick. Plus, where I live and how I live, this wasn't much of a change or sacrifice.
Even though the Pandemic has not lived up to its hype...thankfully.....the media and Democrats want us to continue to panic and cower at their power. Now stay home and flatten the curve has morphed into a draconian stay home and starve until there is no more disease EVER.
That is an impossible goal for all sorts of reasons. People know it is impossible. They see the moving of the goal posts and are angry. This will not play out well.
There are MANY of us in the Great State of Wisconsin that realize we are being lied to and manipulated for nefarious purposes. The abuse of power by the newly elected Democrat executive branch in Madison, created a wide chasm. May 1st was the dividing line.
Andrea Palm's claim to unlimited authority that of a dictator. That's not even an exaggeration. To watch the Wis Attorney General defend it was disturbing.
It's not going to heal.
I continually see evidence that conservatives, by nature, are more optimistic people. They are the ones who believe: we can beat this, we can bring things back, if you'll just get out of our way. Liberals are typically hand-wringers. They are not optimistic people at all, seeing the darkest times ahead, and threatening all who don't think or act as they deem necessary.
Dems are in the precarious position of actually rooting for people in open states to get struck with massive amounts of disease and death. They can hardly wait. Remember the slamming Florida Gov. DeSantis got (and is still getting) while he allowed the people here to make their own judgements before shutting down? He focused on getting the senior communities secured first. The counties who determined they should close, did. The rest of us made the decision to shelter in place on our own. We did not require the Governor to tell us. The media- out of Washington, New York, LA, San Francisco- all roasted DeSantis. Today, Florida is doing great. And New York? It's freaking mess. And Gov Cuomo has yet to answer for his bizarre chants for 40,000 ventilators, the hospital ship, and the Javits Center- none of which he needed or used. Moreover he has yet to answer for the thousands of seniors who were killed by his decisions. But the Dems are going to put this man up for President.
Similarly in Georgia. Gov Kemp's Actions
A few more weeks from now, the Dems are hoping that the open states are suffering. Literally- that's their hope. if the open states are still doing fine, and getting along, there will be hell to pay in such states as California, Pennsylvania and others. Such a thing could create a generational change in places such as Pennsylvania. Even in California.
There are lots of viruses out there. I wonder how many have been confirmed to have been killed off.
None. Even smallpox still exists.
I suspected as much. Which makes "general distancing to keep the reinfection rate very low in order to kill off the virus" sound awfully unrealistic.
...the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
Head first? I hope not. The depth of celebratory crowds is hard to judge. Those eager rebels don't want to end up Charles Krauthammer, do they?
Best to plunge feet first, but that looks dorky. However, everybody enjoys a nice cannonball.
AA sez:
What troubles me is that the excesses of the lockdown fomented a protest movement and a division into teams — discussed here, earlier this morning. I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
Love Althouse, her sentiment is great, her intentions are great, her tone is reasonable, but she still expresses her naivete on this issue.
Hypothetical to Althouse: Let's say Wisconsin goes bankrupt and cuts your pension in half. So, now your livelihood is impacted. You may have to write books or teach classes or something else. If that occurs (and obviously I hope that doesn't happen), don't you think your outlook on reopening might change?
This is not to argue with you. Reasonable minds can differ on how to address the TWO RISKS: (1) the risk of the virus to the general public and (2) the risk of the lockdown to the general public.
But think of the 30 Million unemployed -- the waitresses, the restaurant cooks, the taxi cab drivers, the flight attendants, the small businessmen -- don't you think they care more about (2) than (1), given the relatively small numbers of cases and deaths in the US?
I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
Doesn’t that depend on what means to be rational”? I agree with Dr. Michael K. (11:51). It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that hardly anyone in the “celebratory crowd” actually comes fown with the disease. If one starts from the assumption that the crowds are an irrational response to Democrat overreach, then within two weeks the local ICUs should be packed. But if one assumes that the participants assessed the risks and made rational decisions, then essentially nothing will happen. But the news media can never report on “nothing” now can it?
This weekend in the Wisconsin red counties it is going to be a celebration of freedom. We really haven’t had one since the Olympic Hockey victory in 1980. Liberals in those areas will fume inside their homes, threaten boycotts. Blue counties will seethe at the hicks that aren’t listening to their enlightened edicts. I’m sure Milwaukee residents will take a ride to Waukesha County establishments and hide their hypocrisy.
Wisconsin will be forever divided. We should enjoy the moment. The economic fallout from the cancelled 2020 summer has not yet hit. There will be a lot of tears when it does.
The fight will get uglier. Public employees and pensioners will insist on tax increases from the private sector to fill budget shortfalls they insisted on creating. Private sector will expect budget cuts. Teachers will want full pay even if schools don’t open. Shit like that. It’s pretty easy to predict.
ADDED: What troubles me is that the excesses of the lockdown fomented a protest movement and a division into teams — discussed here, earlier this morning. I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.
My comment: Excess re-opening was an entirely predictable response to excess lockdown. Good god, do public policy experts take even an intro course on human behavior? Or do those fuckers just pretend their policies need not take into account actual humans?
No, don't answer, I know the answer.
Go look at the stats. The death rate for healthy people under 50 is almost zero. This has always been about protecting old geezers and the few people with morbid obesity and diabetes.
No doubt small town/rural Wisconsin will experience an uptick of CV-19, but the number of deaths will be low. Milwaukee remains locked down. Wisconsin doesn't need a one size fits all. And neither does Calf or Michigan. but that's what they got.
BTW, everyone in Georgia was supposed to be dead by now. But that didn't happen.
Sweden did NOT lock-down and is doing OK.
What upsets me about this whole thing, is that people are treating CV-19 like it was the plague. The death rate for healthy people under 50 is almost zero. The death rate for the entire population is about 8%. IOW, out 15 people who get CV-19, 14 live.
Look at that US Navy A/C 1,000 sailors get CV-19 and 7 die. Everyone was running around in March/Feb spreading the disease and no one thought twice about it. Now people freak out if you get within 5 feet of them, despite the fact that 95% of the people in the City/County don't have CV-19.
A crowded bar is probably riskier than a crowded subway car, but, on the bright side, the bar is located in Wisconsin and not NYC.....When I was twenty-five and immortal, I would probably risk a visit to the bar to celebrate emancipation. I don't think such a visit has much appeal to the elderly.....It seems to me that bars and bordellos should be the last places to loosen restrictions, but who knows. Maybe bars attract the least vulnerable and it all turns out okay.
Conservatives and classical liberals are informed by a knowledge of human behavior and a willingness to consult the past.
If we look at the 1957 and 1968 pandemics, we see that life carried on perfectly well without all these panicky measures. We also see that the tactics of social control being applied today are irrational to a degree and actually may be harmful (quarantining healthy young people, keeping people indoors, using nursing homes as repositories for diagnosed cases, ruining businesses, educations, and livelihoods in an arbitrary way, etc.). There is no assurance that the measures being undertaken will in balance save a single life over the next two years.
We need to focus on developing effective treatments while letting life continue as normally as possible. Wash your hands, stay home if you are sick, cover up if you cough or sneeze, wear a mask in indoor interactions with others, open up the schools, etc.
It's a slippery slope.
Allow head bobbing and who knows what you'll end up with.
You cannot lead the nation in drunk driving if bars are closed. Gotta get back to what we do best.
Nice example being set by those who so vocally called for opening.
Keeping up with the news reports on Wuhan Flu shows a earlier version from Wuhan was released on the West coast of the USA in October- December and everybody just got sniffles and dry coughs for 3 weeks but recovered. Then a Wuhan Flu 2.0 was released in Europe in January from which it spread to the USA’s East Coast international airport hubs and was much worse at cytokine Killing storms that made ventilators the big deal. The point now is that Doctor of Disease Fauci knows Wuhan Flu 3.0 will be released here next.
"Sweden did NOT lock-down and is doing OK."
Not really. Lots of nursing home residents in Stockholm died from it, probably because of all the workers there who are Somali, Afghan and whatnot who don't gaf about protocols.
Sweden takes more of them than the other scandis, apparently to do these jobs.
The people with corona virus have no symptoms
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Prudence dictates good hygiene, social moderation, context awareness, avoiding black holes, disinfecting (e.g. HCQ+AZ) when there are symptoms, and maintaining healthy habits (e.g. diet, exercise, sleep).
end up on a ventilator and overwhelm the hospitals
A ventilator is likely to overwhelm the patient. A hospital is likely to spread the virus.
Bay Area Guy Reasonable minds can differ on how to address the TWO RISKS: (1) the risk of the virus to the general public and (2) the risk of the lockdown to the general public.
I prefer to think of the two possible negative outcomes as 1. A Chance or 2. A Certainty
We know that:
For #1 There is a chance that you might catch the virus. You might not if you take precautions like: staying away from crowds, wearing masks when necessary, washing and sanitizing. Even IF you catch the virus, you might only get a light case and recover in a few weeks..... as many other people have done for many months now.
For #2 There is the certainty that on a personal level, you will go bankrupt, lose all your savings, or lose your assets. The certainty of homelessness, destitution, destruction of businesses looms the longer we are artificially shut down. Even IF the worst case scenario doesn't unfold, it will be years if not decades before you or the entire Country can economically recover. In the meantime you must deal with not only the financial issues but the emotional and health issues that come with poverty, unemployment and the train wreck of what used to be your life.
Rational people will take the Chance over the Certainty.
I'm surprised there are still people in Wisconsin. I was told the election was going to kill them all.
Temujin said...
I continually see evidence that conservatives, by nature, are more optimistic people."
Conservatives also understand that freedom is messy. You don't take away everyone's rights because some people behave stupidly. A lib relative of mine is appalled by the WI SC decision because OMG some people will behave recklessly and spread the virus!!!! You don't take away everyone's driver's license because some people drive drunk, do you?
Liberals don't believe adults can be trusted to make up their own minds and behave prudently without Big Mommy Government's direction.
Nice example being set by those who so vocally called for opening.
Diversity? People... persons will do what they do. However, diversity is uncalled for.
rcocean said...
*********888
Look at that US Navy A/C 1,000 sailors get CV-19 and 7 die. Everyone was running around in March/Feb spreading the disease and no one thought twice about it. Now people freak out if you get within 5 feet of them, despite the fact that 95% of the people in the City/County don't have CV-19.
Actual DoD numbers from airforcemagdotcom:
Number of COVID-19 cases in DOD, as of May 13:
Cumulative Cumulative Cumulative Cumulative
Cases Hospitalized Recovered Deaths
Military 5,414 117 2,346 2
Civilian 1,317 97 634 14
Dependent 979 27 481 4
Contractor 500 31 221 7
Total 8,210 272 3,682 27
Only one sailor from the USS Theodore Roosevelt died. And the ship, with it's associated air wing, a front line vessel, was taken out of commission. A single bad landing, an engine failure on a helicopter, any number of things, results in more deaths on a deployment.
"Eager rebels. Those were once the people of the left. Now they're all a bunch of conformist sheep."
It's sort of fitting, then, that Obama is back in the news. It was after Red Diaper Barry's election that "liberals" (as someone, maybe Glenn Reynolds, pointed out) changed their bumper stickers from the one that said "Question authority" to the one that said, "Obey."
on a personal level, you will go bankrupt, lose all your savings, or lose your assets
For #3: time, opportunity, relationships.
Rational people will take the Chance over the Certainty.
Life is an exercise in risk management. The only reason to treat the agent from Wuhan differently, is if it exhibits anthropogenic features and sustainability (i.e. her Choice, not Her Choice).
After opening up almost 3 weeks ago, and after numerous news articles predicting disaster and even calling it "human sacrifice" Georgia Covid deaths have dropped like a rock. I can't say why but after weeks of flat numbers near the peak level, death numbers suddenly and continuously dropped off a cliff starting just when the opening up began.
My comment: Excess re-opening was an entirely predictable response to excess lockdown. Good god, do public policy experts take even an intro course on human behavior? Or do those fuckers just pretend their policies need not take into account actual humans?
Lysenkoism appeals to totalitarians for a reason. It tells them that if they have total control, then they can create the New Soviet Man. They want total control anyway, and this just gives them a "scientistic" reason to do so.
Keynsian economics appeals to the same people for the same reason.
I guess Ann Althouse prefers living in a police state. Be careful what you wish for.
We know the covid19 virus has been around much earlier than the March lockdowns. So something that I've wondered about for some time has been the super bowl. This was the last national mass congregation of Americans before the social distance hammer came down. Not just the game, but the hundreds of thousands of fans who congregated for the week long party in Miami with and without tickets to the game itself.
And yet!
Where are the spikes of cases traced back to the super bowl? By all rights, Kansas City, San Francisco, and Miami should be among the hottest hot spots for the virus. And yet, they're not. At least not in proportion to the exposure they sustained. Kansas City and it's evirons are comparatively clear. Sixteen total deaths in the city itself. 15 in Jackson county. 1 in Clay county. None in Platte county. 30 total. The Super Bowl was the canary in the covid19 coal mine, and it's still alive and well.
@DBQ:
Yeah, that's a more eloquent way of restating what I was getting at.
The problem, though, is you have ordinary people exaggerating Risk 1, while ignoring Risk 2. Even St. Fauci -- purported Master of the Universe on Risk 1 -- admitted to Sen. Paul, that he is not even considering Risk 2. He is a doctor, not an economist!
But that is why he is clueless and dangerous and will throw cold water on most efforts to reopen the economy much to the delight of the Dems in America.
It's too bad "let's not overwhelm the medical system" got turned into all this other political stuff. Even most of the pro-quarantine people (and I'm one) seem to have gone down all these other rabbit holes. People getting very sick matters. People dying matters. But neither of those things are what the quarantines are about. We're trying to avoid an even worse economic catastrophe by putting us in a situation where "routine" emergencies turn into deaths because we're unable to treat everyone in a timely manner, if at all. If that happens, the economy is sunk and the entire country's going to be in a panic. The anti-maskers think pro-quarantine people are scared. That's true, but they're wrong that we're scared of getting sick. We're scared of what happens to the economy and to society when people can no longer get urgent and emergency medical care. It's about spreading out the effects of the virus on the medical system, not eliminating the virus or running from it. It's a shame so many of us seem to have forgotten that's the whole point of the quarantines, masks, and social distancing.
Life is an exercise in risk management.
There may have been some hominid species thousands of years ago, but if so then they went extinct. Perhaps some of their genes are still in the human genome the way that certain Neanderthal and Denisovian genes are claimed to survive in our genetic makeup — what else explains Liberals?
What concerns Althouse is the obvious and predictable backlash against government power but not the use of government power.
SMDH
Fauci wasn't even speaking for all medicine or even all epidemiologists. Mental Health is also medicine--and there are huge issues with stress and addictions. Delayed cancer screenings, closed hospitals, testing labs shuttered,knee replacements cancelled, even being shut in out of the fresh air and sunshine and exercise--all of those are Medicine too. Not to mention politicians banning treatments they don't like.
Epidemiology is one narrow lense.
Government exists only with the consent of the governed.
This has been pointed out from the begining.
Iowa opens all counties all restaurant tomorrow. Evers shit in his own nest.
Sigh. 32 total deaths not 30. Math is hard.
"The death rate for healthy people under 50 is almost zero."
In Idaho, the death rate for *everybody* under 50 *is* zero. Just sayin'.
Lurker21 said...
It's a slippery slope. Allow head bobbing and who knows what you'll end up with.
I agree, there could also be that pinky-index finger or pinky-thumb gesture. I think one of those is friendly and the other implies an unhealthy affection for bovines or something, but i can never keep them straight. I just make the OK sign.
@Bay Area Guy:
Even St. Fauci -- purported Master of the Universe on Risk 1 -- admitted to Sen. Paul, that he is not even considering Risk 2. He is a doctor, not an economist!
He is a public health doctor that didn't say one word about suicide.
I read somewhere that call to the LA County suicide prevention hotline increased by 8000% over the previous April.
You'd think that downside risk to locking everything down would be worth mentioning.
anti-maskers
A colorful label without cause. People... persons weren't "anti-mask", although the dearth of goggles was obvious, but were rather a pro-rational approach to risk management. Also, the greatest risk to resource management was the misalignment forced through spread of social contagion, unreformed globalism, unmitigated immigration reform, and, as with HIV before it, poor hygiene and social liberal clubs.
What those who place their trust in people must remember is that many of them will do stupid things and suffer consequences that may spill over onto other people.
What those who place their trust in government must remember is that the power that comes with government does not attract those who would grudgingly use it sparingly but those who are eager to use it.
It is as foolish to expect those who wield power not to overreach and foment a backlash as it is to hope the backlash won't come.
"You'd think that downside risk to locking everything down would be worth mentioning."
Depends on what your goal is.
I live close enough to Interstate 90-94 to hear it. It got quiet for a while but is almost back to it's usual noise level. Turns out bringing home a paycheck is an essential service.
But, gbarto, while some small number of individuals may act foolishly and endanger the well-being of others, how many politicians are eager to use it? Half? More? The common people are better than the members of the political class.
Virtually no one under age 60 will die.
It's both misleading and soft headed to blame the (assumed) excesses of the lockdown for the personal rashness and irresponsibility of the folks who went out to drink in Brown County last night. Particularly under a libertarian account, they are responsible for their own actions.
It's even stranger to pin the blame on the regulators when we all know that the Irresponsible (or should I say Not Responsible) in Chief and his political allies have been stoking the resistance, and did so last night as well, while consistently denying, minimizing or concealing the relevant public health risks.
I mean, cheering on crowds of drinkers in a national corona virus hot spot? Indefensible.
@Hey Skipper,
"He is a public health doctor that didn't say one word about suicide. I read somewhere that call to the LA County suicide prevention hotline increased by 8000% over the previous April.
You'd think that downside risk to locking everything down would be worth mentioning."
Fauci is a dangerous incompetent. He's been the head of NIAID for 35 years - one might ask, impertinently, wasn't it your job to prepare the country to prevent and/or prepare the country to handle an outbreak?
During the swine flu epidemic of 2009, he offered not even a suggestion of a dangerous lockdown.
The guy is a fucking menace.
"while consistently denying, minimizing or concealing the relevant public health risks."
They have been consistently hyped by an order of magnitude. The actual level of risk leaves these revelers well within the parameters of reasonable behavior. Some risk? Yes. Dangerous? Less than driving home afterward. If you wanted to criticize them for that, you would have a more honest point.
I mean, cheering on crowds of drinkers in a national corona virus hot spot? Indefensible.
Indefensible? Nope.
In fact, we're doing just that. Defending it. With gusto.
And I wasn't aware Wisconsin was any sort of national hotspot. I thought the election killed everybody already.
And this bullshit? stoking the resistance,
If you leftist thugs keep this up, a few rowdy drunks will be the least of your concerns.
rocean said,
"What upsets me about this whole thing, is that people are treating CV-19 like it was the plague. The death rate for healthy people under 50 is almost zero. The death rate for the entire population is about 8%. IOW, out 15 people who get CV-19, 14 live."
My understanding is that the infection fatality rate is 0.1%. Or to say it another way, one-tenth of 1% of the people who are infected with this die, which by some great coincidence are exactly the same odds as for a normal flu season. But the odds are differently distributed than the flu. If you are under 20 the odds of dying from the coronavirus, if you get it, are extremely low. If you're in a nursing home the odds of dying from this, if you get it, are kind of high.
"LA County suicide prevention hotline increased by 8000% "
The Fauch: "potential secondary effects"
I see that in Dane county they're dropping like flies. 22 associated deaths w/Covid-19. Mercy, where are they putting all those bodies? I've seen numbers of hospital ads and took my wife to our local hospital for a blood draw. They're ALL wearing those cheese dick blue ear loop no fitting masks. They block nothing. They steam my glasses with the bypassed breath leaks. Everyone waiting, all of (4), was fiddling with their masks, pulling them up and tweaking the nose fit. The women were spending equal time scratching their faces and fiddling with their hair. The hospital courier walked through with his mask over his chin. The door knob to the blood draw lab was never sanitized/wiped. Get serious people. Corona hotspots my friggin ass!
"I thought the election killed everybody already."
Those that survived the repeal of Net Neutrality.
This afternoon, hubby and I "plunged" into a group of happy people in an Ozaukee County bar. We bought all the patriots at the bar a round and damned Evers. It felt wonderful.
I'll keep you posted if we all die.
Platteville, in Grant County, is a "national hotspot"?
I got my "speakeasy haircut" yesterday. Though on my drive over, it was legalized.
“I mean, cheering on crowds of drinkers in a national corona virus hot spot? Indefensible.”
What could go wrong with drunks in close proximity breathing in each other’s faces?
If you're vulnerable or scared stay home, otherwise let the people live. Someone once said "I'm the one who has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to, Play on drummer".
I'm so old I can remember demonstrating against the oppressors. Shoes on the other foot! Dems USED to like civil rights protests. ACLU used to back them, too. Liberals don't fight evil any more. They fight the ones who fight the evil these days.
“What troubles me is that the excesses of the lockdown fomented a protest movement and a division into teams — discussed here, earlier this morning. I wish we could emerge from the lockdown with rational care, but instead, the most eager rebels are plunging into celebratory crowds.”
What “excesses” of the lockdown? Was anyone locked inside their homes? Were people not free to grocery shop, go outdoors, jog, take walks etc. What form of social distancing would be preferable and would not be considered excessive?
MacIver News Service
@NewsMacIver
·
1h
Apparently #BadgerBounceBack wouldn't have ended until without a #vaccine if the #WisconsinSupremeCourt hadn't stepped in.
CLIP
Howard said...
So Achilles do you oppose the use of masks in public? I'm curious because obviously the anti mask movement is a people's Republic of China intelligence operation to defeat President Trump. Are you a unwitting co-conspirator or a traitor to your nation?
Today is stupid Howard the cunty troll.
I don't care about masks one way or the other as long as it is my choice.
It must be that time of month.
So, just like that, small religious groups lost their right to meet in person and must, at this late date, switch to teleconferencing. And that's what you get when local government takes over.
Just switch Christian out for Jew in democrat parlance. The historical pattern is clear.
I guarantee Madison officials go nowhere near a Mosque while thinking of enforcing this decree.
The NAZI(National Socialist Workers Party) is jealous of what democrats are accomplishing right now.
Howard
Trump told Achilles to fuck himself weeks ago. He told all the denialists, get fucked losers. Inga and I pointed it out at the time.
It is remarkable seeing how many of them parrot CCP propaganda: the virus is mild, Trump is a dupe, flu flu flu. Amazing really.
Inga said...
What “excesses” of the lockdown? Was anyone locked inside their homes? Were people not free to grocery shop, go outdoors, jog, take walks etc. What form of social distancing would be preferable and would not be considered excessive?
My parents have a house that they rent. The renters moved out several months ago.
I have been trying to get the carpet replaced and the oven replaced for 3 months.
It is just sitting there empty.
The state will take it from them if they don't pay property taxes. But they can't rent it out because they can't fix it up.
Why can 2 people not go to a house and install the carpet?
The state has blocked the sale of concrete to private jobs. For the last 3 months one or two or three people have not been able to go to house construction sites around the state times thousands.
Up to three people on a lot at most. What is wrong with letting private contractors build houses?
Notice that all the big construction companies and the state construction jobs are still allowed to continue.
This shut down is run by a bunch of statist shitheads that are letting their buddies work and screwing small businesses.
You are a Nazi and so are all democrats at this point.
Inga said...What “excesses” of the lockdown?
--
Perhaps ability to make a living..which includes restaurants and bar owners.
Ah..doesn't register on your retired self.
"What could go wrong with drunks in close proximity breathing in each other’s faces?"
Lots of things are possible. On the other hand, I haven't read any reports of people being dragged to places like that against their will.
What business is it of yours whose faces other people choose to breathe into as long as it's not yours?
If you are in an at-risk group or you think you are at-risk, you are responsible to stay away from crowded bars. Mind your own business, and we'll mind ours.
The Right looks at the pandemic as an obstacle to normalcy.
The Left looks at the pandemic as a political project.
It does not make sense to blame both sides for the partisanship. It's like the old story about you and the guy who wants to steal your property being the same, because you are both just trying to satisfy your desires. It is a category error, you are not thinking of the issue in a way that will lead you to a rational conclusion.
"What form of social distancing would be preferable and would not be considered excessive?"
uuuh . . . voluntary?
Just a thought.
What “excesses” of the lockdown? Was anyone locked inside their homes? Were people not free to grocery shop, go outdoors, jog, take walks etc. What form of social distancing would be preferable and would not be considered excessive?
The left wing pensioner who doesn't need to work is bewildered by all those deplorables that want to work and feed their families.
What could go wrong with drunks in close proximity breathing in each other’s faces?
Antibodies, dummy.
Inga,
Since you are a heathen, people not being allowed to go to Church is not a problem for you.I bet more people frequent grocery stores or Lowes, then go to Church. Moreover, at best, people are in Church only about 1 hour a week. Explain the "science" behind keeping Churches closed.
Murdering the unborn is an essential "healthcare service" to YOUR party. But doctors, nurses and people inside those facilities are also being put at risk. Explain the "science" in allowing the Abortionatoriums to remain open whereas the living cannot get a hip replacement because it is non-essential.
“What could go wrong with drunks in close proximity breathing in each other’s faces?”
OH? And how do you know they all have antibodies already, senile coot? And if they get Covid, who is to say there won’t be my serious cases that end up in death among them. Or that they won’t go home and infect their elderly mother who was babysitting their kid so they could go out drinking? Did you forget all the things you learned in med school?
You need to be a better son Achilles. you could figure out a way to solve your parents problem and get that house rented instead of just bitching about how some bureaucrat is tying them down.
Get after it instead of being a worthless bellyaching worm. It's that time of the month for you 24/7. You need to quit using your rage as an excuse for inaction.
Let's just hope there's not a repeat of the fag bar drinking school teacher in South Korea. His students didn't have much of a choice and neither did their families.
" What could go wrong with drunks in close proximity breathing in each other’s faces?"
Same thing as next week, next month, next quarter, next year, and last year. What's your alternative?
I was asking Althouse about what she considered “the excesses” of the social distancing that caused stupid people to go hog wild. I’ve heard your opinions on the social distancing ad nauseum. I’m more interested in what Althouse meant by “excesses”.
“What business is it of yours whose faces other people choose to breathe into as long as it's not yours?”
If one of those drunken fools goes shopping the next few days after being exposed and spews virus all over the apples I just bought at the grocery store, that makes it my business. I don’t care if you fools want to give each other Covid, but when you put others at risk, you’ve stepped outside of your idiot circle and into the circle of innocent Americans.
When you pee in the pool it won’t stay within a foot of you.
"Were people not free to grocery shop, go outdoors, jog, take walks etc."
So is that all there is to life on the dole? "Let them eat cake".
I used to just find you foolish, but this mess has left that a high goal for you to aspire to.
"And if they get Covid, who is to say there won’t be my serious cases that end up in death among them. Or that they won’t go home and infect their elderly mother who was babysitting their kid so they could go out drinking?"
Maybe you didn't think this through, but you are arguing for people to never be allowed to leave their houses ever again because who is to say something bad won't happen if they do?
"If one of those drunken fools goes shopping the next few days after being exposed and spews virus all over the apples I just bought at the grocery store, that makes it my business."
Bull. Shit.
You're worried about stuff on your apples? Wash them before you eat them.
Inga: "I don’t care if you fools want to give each other Covid, but when you put others at risk, you’ve stepped outside of your idiot circle and into the circle of innocent Americans."
Our Constitutional rights do not depend on the whims of retired lunatic WI conspiracy theorists who think Russia worked with Trump to steal an election.
Karen B: "Howard
Trump told Achilles to fuck himself weeks ago. He told all the denialists, get fucked losers. Inga and I pointed it out at the time.
It is remarkable seeing how many of them parrot CCP propaganda: the virus is mild, Trump is a dupe, flu flu flu. Amazing really."
Posts like this make it clear why it is that Karen B is such a natural ally of a lunatic leftist conspiracy theorist.
“...but you are arguing for people to never be allowed to leave their houses ever again because who is to say something bad won't happen if they do?”
No, I’m not. There are guidelines that the Whitehouse itself put out as to when to open up and then your idiot President went back and ignored his OWN guidelines. No one wants to stay in a social distancing mode forever.
Remember, Inga is fully in favor of the democrats in power spying on domestic political opponents and frame them as gang rapists and russian spies as well.
And Ken B is now in her back pocket.
walter said...
Inga said...What “excesses” of the lockdown?"
Oh, just people losing their livelihoods. Doesn't matter to Inga or Ken B or Howard.
The bar owner of the bar we we in today told me she's barely slept a wink over the last 2 months, she was so worried about the business she's owned for over 20 years.
But hey, Inga says she could still go on walks in the park and to the grocery store!! What's the prob?
Inga: "I don’t care if you fools want to give each other Covid, but when you put others at risk, you’ve stepped outside of your idiot circle and into the circle of innocent Americans."
Just stay at home, Inga. You're safe there.
The rest of us want to live our lives.
That bar could also be hit by a meteor, or they could run a van full of handicapped veterans off the road, or ....
The most likely thing that would happen is nothing, followed by some having none or minor symptoms, followed by immunity, which will save lives. Way down the list of possibilities is what you claim to be concerned about, but I suspect are secretly hoping for. I don't wish you luck.
Remember that 66% of the cases in New York caught it at home.
“You're worried about stuff on your apples? Wash them before you eat them.”
Oh I most certainly do, even before Covid, but your obese 80 year old mama may not remember to wash the apples you just brought to her from the grocery store.
Oh and show some consideration to our blog Hostess, she wants to go shopping and with you fools running around hog wild, she’ll stay out of stores for even longer.
"No, I’m not."
You are now claiming to not have a problem with people leaving their houses and possibly infecting others as long as the government says it's okay to go out? Ok- I stand corrected.
“Oh, just people losing their livelihoods. Doesn't matter to Inga or Ken B or Howard.”
Or Althouse either then, as she hasn’t expressed any more desire to open up the economy sooner than Whitehouse guidelines and ending social distancing any more than Ken B or I have.
“Just stay at home, Inga. You're safe there.“
I haven’t stayed home one day from the beginning unless the weather was bad. I’ve gone out walking with no mask and shopping with a mask and plenty of hand sanitizer. I have zero anxiety going outside. It’s Althouse that needs you people to show her you can be trusted.
As I said, all Trump had to do was follow his OWN guidelines instead of making a mockery of himself...again. Then the END social distancing could’ve been done in a safer more responsible way.
OH? And how do you know they all have antibodies already, senile coot? And if they get Covid, who is to say there won’t be my serious cases that end up in death among them
The senile cootess does not seem to understand that people under 50 rarely get very sick and those who get cytokine storm are as likely to get it with Influenza. They MAKE antibodies, although aside from bedpans you seem to have trouble with medical facts,
Look, I don't care if drones like Inga stay inside until next year. There are millions of young people who need to work and get their lives back from the little Nazi Democrat Governors who are trying to crash the economy to get their bette noir, Trump, defeated in November.
So the medical doctor is encouraging people under age 50 to take their chances so he can feel like some old fart “patriot”. Why don’t you throw a Covid party for all your relatives under age 50? All they’ll get antibodies, right? What stupid arrogance.
We still don’t know enough about the other morbidities from covid, but they seem not to be trivial, even for those under 50.
Nobody is stopping anyone from staying in there home forever. I would recommend that all Liberals do so.
"We still don’t know enough about the other morbidities from covid, but they seem not to be trivial, even for those under 50."
Yes we do they are practically zero. Where in the hell do you get your "news".
Right Man
More bullshit. Example https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/what-coronavirus-does-to-the-lungs
Do you panic merchants ever have anything positive to impart about anything Covid? Every piece of promising news must be discounted, and all bad news trumpeted like the second coming. I expect that a year from now you'll still be trotting out the one guy who died from a lightning strike but tested positive for Covid as some kind serious need for concern, and probably government action. Mandatory alcohol-infused lightning rod hats or something. The negativity and hand-wringing is worse than the dammed disease.
One thing is clear: if Dane County stayed shut down longer than Brigadoon, no one would miss it.
Right Man said...
Nobody is stopping anyone from staying in there home forever. I would recommend that all Liberals do so.
5/14/20, 9:23 PM
That would be wonderful.
Or Althouse either then, as she hasn’t expressed any more desire to open up the economy sooner than Whitehouse guidelines and ending social distancing any more than Ken B or I have.
5/14/20, 8:40 PM
And I diagree with her. It's funny how you drag out Althouse as an authority when you agree with her and go into hissy fits if she says something positive about Trump.
"panic merchants"
They are not commenting in good faith. They get paid to be negative about everything in these comments.Chuck got squashed, Ken B showed up. Over at Powerline it is Paul Dueffort and Jeff Darling.
Just think of it as driving for Lyft or delivering for GrubHub. It is a way for some adjunct professors to make a little extra coin. They need it. Enjoy the show.
Howard: “ That's what's so frustrating these idiots are fighting the best way to get to herd immunity”
They refuse to take the virus seriously. That impedes any effort to fight either the virus or the concomitant economic problems.
Inga is a special case. She seems like a real person. Or maybe I just have a soft spot for her.
She's probably a Russian bot.
I still think that guy that showed up here flying the red flag was a Chinese bot. What was his name? Oh yeah, Stay Safe.
Well, stay safe.
" That impedes any effort to fight either the virus or the concomitant economic problems."
We appreciate your brave sacrifices and vigorous efforts from under your blanket, and we do not take for granted the risks you take going to the mail box in your hazmat suit.
“They refuse to take the virus seriously. That impedes any effort to fight either the virus or the concomitant economic problems.“
Down here in Georgia we have been sorta open for a few weeks. Cases down. Deaths down. The scared stay home. Everybody else finding their limits. Adult behavior. Very few Karen Bs.
"What “excesses” of the lockdown?"
Ask those recently unemployed.
How is it more dangerous to get a haircut from a sole proprietor who can mandate masks, control in-shop population density, sanitize a smaller location regularly, and bar the use of restrooms for the public than a large grocery chain store? Especially when his or her livelihood depends upon fostering trust and safety more than a person making minimum wage at Wal-Mart?
I cannot figure it out.
" If he’s so concerned about having a job to feed his family, he can find employment as an essential employee at a whole lot of businesses"
Oh, like the consideration you showed her when she banned your decrepit alcoholic old ass from the blog for calling her a bitch, Inga? That kind of consideration?
"Only one sailor from the USS Theodore Roosevelt died. And the ship, with it's associated air wing, a front line vessel, was taken out of commission."
One reason it was taken out is that some knucklehead on board blabbed openly about it not being 'battle-ready.' That' a big no-no, especially if you're out tooling around the waters near Taiwan.
". It’s Althouse that needs you people to show her you can be trusted."
You people?
""And if they get Covid, who is to say there won’t be my serious cases that end up in death among them. Or that they won’t go home and infect their elderly mother who was babysitting their kid so they could go out drinking?""
Hypotheticals? I thought you belonged to the party of science.
Ken B said...
Howard: “ That's what's so frustrating these idiots are fighting the best way to get to herd immunity”
They refuse to take the virus seriously. That impedes any effort to fight either the virus or the concomitant economic problems.
You are on the side that wants schools shut down and Nursing homes forced to take COVID-19 patients.
There is nothing serious about your stupidity and your lying about what other people are saying. You don't even know what exponential means. You obviously lied when you were blabbering about "flattening the curve."
Now you move the goalposts. There was never a curve to flatten. You have been wrong about everything.
You are a lying douchey and really stupid piece of shit Ken.
" There are millions of young people who need to work and get their lives back from the little Nazi Democrat Governors who are trying to crash the economy to get their bette noir, Trump, defeated in November."
Lol, own goal from Godwin's law.
Or as Pee Wee said, 'I know you are, but what am I?
The guy calling the other side a nazi is always the nazi in the discussion. Spray in your aging brain cannot comprehend that Michael.
If one of those drunken fools goes shopping the next few days after being exposed and spews virus all over the apples I just bought at the grocery store, that makes it my business. I don’
If any of them are to get Covid, one already had to have Covid. Covid doesn't just spring up when too many people congregate.
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