१९ मे, २०२०

"I would rather he not be taking something that has not been approved by the scientists, especially in his age group and his — shall we say weight group — what is 'morbidly obese'...."

Nancy Pelosi — second in line for the presidency if Trump dies — expresses concern for our President, after he says he's taking hydroxychloroquine. Transcript.

Trump would need to weigh over 300 pounds to be morbidly obese (even assuming he's shrunken with age from his peak height of 6'3"), so Nancy is either taunting him or badly misinformed. Isn't it enough to call someone obese? There's some question whether Trump is even over the line to obese, so stretching it to morbidly obese is mean, and I think a person with such a high stake in Trump's death should not look eager to refer to his dying.

But is "morbid" really a reference to death? That's how I've heard it, connecting it to the French "mort" (death) and "mortality." But what explains the "b" in the place of the "t"? Maybe I have this wrong.

"Mortal" traces back to the Latin mortālis, which means "subject to death, human, transient" and — post-classical — "causing death" or "relating to death." (I'm quoting the OED).

But "morbid" goes back to the Latin morbidus, which means "diseased, sick, causing disease, unhealthy." Strangely, there's an Italian word "morbido" which refers to the "refinement of colours, or harmony of proportions" and, earlier, meant "having a soft, yielding, or doughy consistency" and also was used for the "body or face of a woman or child" to mean "beautiful, delicate."

When we call someone "morbid," though, we mean that their thoughts are grounded in death, don't we?

The OED defines "morbid," when used to describe a person's mental state, as "characterized by excessive gloom or apprehension, or (in later use) by an unhealthy preoccupation with disease, death, or other disturbing subject; given to unwholesome brooding."

But obesity is not a person with a mental state, so the applicable definition of "morbid" is "Causing disease; characteristic of, indicative of, or produced by disease; of the nature of disease; of or relating to disease." So "morbid" in "morbidly obese" is about the causation of disease, not death.

Anyway, is Trump really taking hydroxycholorquine? Or is this more of his sarcasm that nobody understands? From the transcript:
I’m taking it, hydroxychloroquine. Right now. Yeah. Couple of weeks ago I started taking it. Because I think it’s good. I’ve heard a lot of good stories. And if it’s not good, I’ll tell you right. I’m not going to get hurt by it. It’s been around for 40 years for malaria, for lupus, for other things. I’d take it. Frontline workers take it. A lot of doctors take it. Excuse me. A lot of doctors take it. I take it....

Did the White House doctor recommend that you take that? Is that why you’re taking it?

Yeah, White House doctor. He didn’t recommend it. No, I asked him, “What do you think?” He said, “Well, if you’d like it.” I said, “Yeah, I’d like it. I’d like to take it.”...
Much more at the link, and much more discussion of it in the media. I'm only quoting one commentator, Nancy Pelosi, because I thought it was rich that she called him "morbidly obese." But I like to talk about Trump rhetoric too, and I need to throw it out there that he's just lying. He's counterpunching against all those people who've criticized him for talking up hydroxychloroquine in the past, and he's forcing everyone to talk about hydroxychloroquine and not whatever else would have been the subject of the day. He's injecting optimism into the discussion. Everyone loves to think there is a pill that can save us from the big disease, and he's saying something that people want to believe and backing it up with his own (purported) behavior. Commentators who want to oppose him are forced to sound pessimistic: No, there is no pill... it's foolish to hope there's a pill. People are hungry for hope, hungry for pills. Eat those pills! The President does. If he does. I don't know that he does, but he does want to say he does, and I can see why.

१९७ टिप्पण्या:

Craig म्हणाले...

Can you imagine the outcries if Trump had called a female political rival morbidly obese?

Yet another double standard of our modern political climate. They are becoming too common to even be worth mentioning, anymore.

Lincolntf म्हणाले...

My wife has been taking 200 mg of Hydroxochloroquine every day for years as an immuno-booster. It has certainly helped her stay healthy, I don't see why it wouldn't help anyone else.

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

I read in April that “most doctors” in France were taking it prophylactically along with zinc and high-dose vitamin D. And giving it to their families. Similar data out of Israel. Front line healthcare workers are taking it in some American cities, also as a preventative measure. No one on the HCQ+z+D regimen has contracted the WuFlu. So yes if you can tolerate it and have no macular degeneration or heart problems it works like a charm. And you won’t get malaria either while on it. Win win!

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

No one on the HCQ+z+D regimen has contracted the WuFlu.

Citation please. Just because you say something doesn't make it true.

Ann Althouse म्हणाले...

People believe what they want to believe and they want to believe there's a pill for that.

Lincolntf म्हणाले...

Trump should say (or Tweet) something about the "morbidly" corrupt Nancy Pelosi any time now...

Jake म्हणाले...

If he is, and his doctor ok’d it, what’s the argument against?

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

Nancy's taunt back at Donald was fully predictable given the state of political discourse these days. And, of course, those two hate each other.

If Trump would have denounced HCQ, the Dems would be praising it to the skies.

The fact is that the President's doctor prescribed it and he is allowed to do so. There is also much evidence that HCQ saves lives.

My fondest hope for America is that the Obamagate cabal starts getting indicted in June and Trump wins a landslide victory in November. I think both things are very likely.

Jake म्हणाले...

I’ve just been drinking gin and tonics.

Freder Frederson म्हणाले...

Can you imagine the outcries if Trump had called a female political rival morbidly obese?

As opposed to "crazy", as he has called Pelosi many times?

Dave Begley म्हणाले...

Hey, is Stacey Abrams morbidly obese?

tcrosse म्हणाले...

People believe what they want to believe and they want to believe there's a pill for that.

People believe what they want to believe and they want to believe there's not.

Lincolntf म्हणाले...

"People believe what they want to believe and they want to believe there's a pill for that."

That's because right now in human history there actually is "a pill for that" when it comes to most diseases.

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

Why are Democrats and the Media so anti-HCQ is the real question. It’s been shown to work preventively, on people early in the infection cycle, and some seriously ill respond well. Studies in which patients skewed toward the dangerous years over 70 with more than one co-morbidity fared less well. What poor reporting we’ve endured! And now super-partisan Nancypants dudes with the Know-Nothings in Pooh-poohing a treatment that has saved thousands just to be a partisan bitch. Will the official fact checkers check her slimy statement. Nope. Look at her sewer mouth run!

Michael K म्हणाले...

My wife has also taken it for years for rheumatoid arthritis, so the stuff about high risk is nonsense and propaganda.

I previously posted links to the OC Register article about the 88 and 90 year old couple who contracted the virus and their son, an MD, prescribed HCQ for them. They were in the hospital for 5 days and discharged recovered. Then the posturing "infectious disease" doc from the hospital, posing in a white coat for the newspaper, opined that he would NOT prescribe the same drug for the next case he saw.

I feel sorry for patients of politically leftist doctors who decide the treatment by the politics.

MayBee म्हणाले...

Can we also discuss the phrase "has not been approved by the scientists"?

Lucid-Ideas म्हणाले...

That's pretty gutsy coming from a lush her age. Before you remove the Hydroxochloroquine from your neighbors mouth, you might want to remove the box wine from you're own.

DanTheMan म्हणाले...

>>People believe what they want to believe and they want to believe there's a pill for that.

CNN believes that Trump is "self-medicating" and it will result in more people dying.


Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

I listen closely and have not heard of any other preventative therapy like the HCQ-z-D combo though. How many reporters are secretly taking this combo?

bagoh20 म्हणाले...

Trump is just Trump cultist. He'll fall for whatever Trump tells him.

Aggie म्हणाले...

At least he hasn't been pre-embalmed and carrying around 10 lb of Botox. Nancy can't even blink with both eyes at the same time, anymore.

Sally म्हणाले...

Hundreds of thousands of GI's in Vietnam took the stuff regularly, without significant
Side effects. Of course, that was a generally healthy population.

Ignorance is Bliss म्हणाले...

Trump is taking the red pill...

Sebastian म्हणाले...

So it is OK now to talk about other people as "morbidly obese"? Or just for Dems to ageistly fat-shame GOPers?

I Have Misplaced My Pants म्हणाले...

A. I wasn't aware that Nanci Pelosi, M.D. gets a vote on what President Trump and his doctor decide about his body

B. What disgusting lie, "not approved by the scientists," suggesting that there is something illegitimate about a decades-old, garden variety drug

C. Someone who is at the top of the Dem pyramid should not be fat-shaming; I mean, look at your constituents, honey

D. I hadn't paid too much attention to claims that the Dems were trying to quash hydroxychloroquine because finding an effective drug therapy would help Trump, because that seemed a little too tinfoil hattery to me, but crap like this makes me wonder

E. Nancy Pelosi is a horrible, malignant hag

Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...

But what kind of evil troll media denounces a treatment that works? Ours. Our Media. The same ones that bitch about Trump not wearing a mask yet tear off their own as soon as the presser is over Katie-Karen from CNN is a case in point. Fucking hypocrites.

MAJMike म्हणाले...

Dave Begley said...
Hey, is Stacey Abrams morbidly obese?
5/19/20, 8:19 AM

Nah, she's just big-boned.

Derek Kite म्हणाले...

Or maybe he is taking it like lots of people who are exposed to others with the infection.

The lighting of one's hair on fire is just a bonus.

Howard म्हणाले...

Most disease and most healthcare expenditures are caused by the shit food most people eat creating an epidemic of metabolic syndrome that leads to diabetes heart disease cancer depression Alzheimer's dementia and other inflammatory related diseases. The pill for that is eating healthy food.

That said it does look like hydroxychloroquine along with the z-pack and zinc is a potential prophylactic or potential for once you have it to prevent the severe outcome. What it's not good for apparently is once you have the cyclotron storm and they high degree of oxidative stress it is not very effective at that stage of the disease.

I agree with an it was really terrible of Nancy to call our president and hero Donald J Trump morbidly obese. Depends dependent grotesquely obese would be more accurate.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

I've been chopping it up and snorting it. I call it my bug powder.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

L Mori, to die. Deponent verb (active sense, passive form).

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Trump likes to throw chum in the water and watch the frenzy.

Rory म्हणाले...

"Can we also discuss the phrase "has not been approved by the scientists"?"

Yes, it's more than a little scary that the Speaker doesn't understand the drug approval process. The drug has been deemed safe, it just hasn't been approved to be marketed for this specific purpose. Doctors can and do prescribe as they see fit.

MikeR म्हणाले...

"I would rather he not be taking something that has not been approved by the scientists, especially in his age group and his — shall we say weight group — what is 'morbidly obese'...." Sounds like it has been approved by the scientists, actually. It has FDA approval, and he actually asked his doctor if it was okay.
And what does "morbidly obese" have to do with it; does that increase the risk with this drug? We believe it does increase the risk for getting COVID-19, so taking a pill that might help with that may be a good idea.

Browndog म्हणाले...

-Doctors around the country are having a hard time getting HCQ for their covid patients. State regs and pharmacies make it difficult.

-If HCQ wasn't effective, the libs wouldn't be outraged Trump is taking it.

-No curiosity. I've seen no one in the media, or public commentary asking the most basic question: If doctors are not using HCQ to treat covid, what are they using??

stlcdr म्हणाले...

So, the Democrats have come out from behind there masks regarding the atrocity of publicly insulting people?

Wince म्हणाले...

What the hell is Pelosi talking about?

"I would rather he not be taking something that has not been approved by the scientists..."

Actually, it is approved for off-label use, the dispute is over the efficacy of the HCQ-z-D for the WuFlu. The risk profile of the drug itself is established through decades of widespread use.

"...especially in his age group and his — shall we say weight group — what is 'morbidly obese'...."

Those would be Trump's co-morbidity risks from the virus, not use of HCQ-z-D.

CaroWalk म्हणाले...

My 91 year old mother in-law has taken hcq for years. She was very sick at the end of February with what she thought was a bad flu, never went under a doctors care...turns out she had the Covid, about 15 deaths at her nursing home, but she’s just fine. Just sayin.

stlcdr म्हणाले...

Pelosi is a nasty, evil, person. She is everything that the so-called progressives and liberals are against.

Fernandinande म्हणाले...

Nancy Pelosi — second in line for the presidency if Trump dies

Yikes. A sobering thought like that could prevent one from getting taken to Gallup Detox.

narciso म्हणाले...


they put their tent peg on this study.

https://retractionwatch.com/2020/05/11/aggressive-covid-19-strains-what-it-takes-to-correct-a-flawed-paper/

brylun म्हणाले...

What about Nancy's Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Jerrold Nadler? Will she call him morbidly obese too? He's much fatter than Trump!

Leland म्हणाले...

I'm just recalling last summer when Trump would hold stand up press conferences on his way to Marine One wearing a suit and talking for over 30 minutes with the press whining about having to sit in the heat. Trump is there in full suit and tie with no problems.

As Pants suggests above, I'd like the Press, particular the one that acted like Rand Paul wasn't a doctor, to ask or just opine as they do about Pelosi's medical credentials. Be consistent or continue to lose credibility.

Birkel म्हणाले...

Nancy Pelosi would cheer Trump's death, make no mistake.
She is morbid.

Bill Peschel म्हणाले...

" But I like to talk about Trump rhetoric too, and I need to throw it out there that he's just lying. "

Cite? Not being snarky, but is that your default?

I suppose it's on a par with the line "How do you know a politician lies? His lips move." Which makes sense. I rather look at what a politician does than what he says, and that's why I like Trump. But I get why you'd rather not want to listen to him.

And that's been the problem all along, hasn't it? Obama was smooth and cool and thoroughly corrupt and evil. Bill C. was a good ole boy and a guy you'd have a beer with, but he destroyed the manufacturing base, attacked homosexuals in the military, and gave Wall Street a license to print money until the 2007 crash.

But, boy, they have sharp creases in their pants, don't they.

wendybar म्हणाले...

Nancy Pelosi is ugly, inside and out. She hates Trump and will never say a thing nice about him. Just like ugly Morning Joke Joe Scarsborough who hates Trump so much he actually KNOWS that Trump is lying and isn't taking Hydroxychloroquin, even thought the WH doctor confirmed it. They have NOTHING else, but their hate to spew.

Hey...they had better put VP hopeful, Stacy Abrams on a diet PRONTO!! If it is okay to make fun of Trumps weight, it is okay to make fun of hers.

wendybar म्हणाले...

Did Nancy already die??? She looks like a corpse. Maybe the botox has affected her brain, as well as her face.

Lucien म्हणाले...

Listen up, you likely Democratic voter, you get two choices: “Trump taking miracle drug not available to ordinary citizens, failing to prevent the deaths of thousands”, or “Trump takes untested quack remedy, likely leading to the deaths of thousands of Trump cultists.”

So which’ll it be?

MayBee म्हणाले...

At a press conference last week, a reporter actually asked if Trump has made a plan for transitioning power to Pelosi if both he and Pence get COVID.

chickelit म्हणाले...

National scold is not a good look for Pelosi. She should go back to cowering and waiting for "the experts" to tell her it's safe and to her designer ice cream.

John henry म्हणाले...

I don't understand why you doubt that PDJT is taking HQL. It has been used billions of times over the past 50 years. It's safety is well known. It's over the counter in some countries.

I see no danger whatever in him taking it. It may not do any good in preventing Wuhan Rot but it will not do him any harm.

There is a lot of evidence that it will help, none that it will hurt. What's the downside?

The real downside is that it might work as claimed and by publicizing it, PDJT will promote its widespread use.

If it does work, there is no need for billions of dollars to be spent on a vaccine. If there is a $2 treatment, there is no need for a $1,000 treatment.

If it does work, just prescribe it prophylacticly for everyone who may, possibly, potentially, have the Peking Pox. No need for shutdowns. People can go back to work. Then there is no need for the $3 Trillion boondoggle.

And, of course, PDJT saves the world with HQL and we can't have that, can we?

John Henry

Jim Gust म्हणाले...

Excellent comment thread. I'm very thankful that AA continues to put in the moderation effort to allow comments such as these.

Anne-I-Am म्हणाले...

In medicine, morbidity is different from mortality. Morbidity refers to -- as you referenced, AA--disease. Thus, we refer to co-morbidities when we talk about a patient demographic which suffers from a certain illness. Diabetes, congestive heart failure, COPD, etc.

Mortality is ... the ultimate bad outcome.

narciso म्हणाले...


dum dum dum dum

https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/05/wuhan-virus-watch-nyc-mayor-de-blasios-memorial-day-threat-fence-off-beaches-pull-swimmers-out-of-water/

Lnelson म्हणाले...

If morbidity had a face, it would be botoxed.

narciso म्हणाले...

all the wrong advice is being given:


https://www.wsj.com/articles/lockdown-puts-brazilian-lives-at-risk-11589743232

John henry म्हणाले...

Of course Neil Cavuto is upset about this.

Kung Flu is the best thing to happen to drug and device manufacturers ever. Lotsa, lotsa, money being made off of it.

They never want to find a cure. They always want to find a treatment. A cure puts some money in their pockets once. A treatment puts money in their pocket every month forever.

Pharma pays Neil Cavuto's salary. They get to tell him what to say.

He will NEVER say anything bad about any pharma product. Unless it is someone who does not advertise on Fox.

A cynic might even say that it is a form of blackmail. "We know that advertising direct to consumers may not be as effective as other forms of advertising. But think what might happen if you didn't? Do you really want us sniffing around and digging up news about the merits of your products and practices? Hmmm?"

I would love to see PDJT's FDA ban television advertising of prescription products. It is the majority of TV revenue for all networks and most cable channels.

John Henry

narciso म्हणाले...

you can't stop the signal

https://newsthud.com/dallas-salon-owner-shelley-luther-travels-to-michigan-to-back-defiant-barber/

Static Ping म्हणाले...

Nancy knows the true cure for COVID-19 is hoarding super expensive ice cream in high-end freezers that cost more than most cars.

narciso म्हणाले...

life resembles a python sketch


https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/19/delingpole-killing-the-elderly-in-care-homes-to-save-the-nhs-nice-work-boris/

Skeptical Voter म्हणाले...

I dunno. I look at Pant's description of Pelosi "E. An evil malignant hag" and think that almost captures the essence of Pelosi. And then I realize--not quite.

Compared to Pelosi, Cruella Deville is a sweet young thing--almost Snow White like in her innocence and good will toward all. Fixed that description for you Pants.

John henry म्हणाले...

Cuomo was begging PDJT for more HQL for New York just a month ago.

He was all in.

Watch him here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JFThng_2bs

John Henry

Jersey Fled म्हणाले...

Feder:

Maybe you can provide your own citation. You're the one who challenged the claim with no factual backup at all.

Waiting ...

traditionalguy म्हणाले...

Big Pharma is not pleased. Drug dealers like to kill the competitors In the biggest cash cow Business on earth. And huge chunks of that cash goes into the campaign donations of our great Congress critters.

Thanks to that cash flow, the best drug known is ignored Except for fake bad publicity studies. Aspirin has the same problem that chloroquine has. They are 30 cent pills instead of thousand dollar pills. And cash rules.

Mr. Forward म्हणाले...

More proof Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine? Joe Scarborough claims Trump isn't.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

Speaker Pelosi, what do you think of Adele's weight?

narciso म्हणाले...

maybe if we hadn't been focusing on 'enemies of the people' like Flynn and page,


https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/robert-spencer/2020/05/18/pensacola-shooter-turns-out-to-be-al-qaeda-operative-who-plotted-his-attack-for-years-n401786

Tommy Duncan म्हणाले...

Follow the money, or lack thereof.

HCQ is a cheap generic drug used to treat malaria in 3rd world countries. There is no money to be made using HCQ to treat COVID-19. Nancy's donors in big pharma don't like HCQ. QED.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...

Mike Pence will be Clinton-cided.

narciso म्हणाले...


good questions,

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/05/18/why-did-new-york-infect-america-with-coronavirus-new-report-blames-cuomo-de-blasio-n399924

Ken B म्हणाले...

How is he lying? Are you suggesting he is not taking it, or that it was his doctor who suggested it? I don’t see how else he could be lying.

bagoh20 म्हणाले...

I'd like to call attention to my possible error last night. I'll assume Yancey Ward is correct in his analysis of Georgia numbers and how they are reported differently in different places. My interpretation likely overstated the actual drop in cases there since they opened up, although my general point was still supported. I suggested the cases had dropped to double digits, but they are probably in the low hundreds. This is still a drop of roughly half since they opened up, which remains incredibly good news and shows pretty convincingly that opening up is not "human sacrifice" as our media so helpfully and scientifically warned us it would be. I apologize if anyone was deeply distressed by my overly positive interpretation, which may have given some more hope than they wanted.

Drago म्हणाले...

Is taking HCQ impeachable?

I only ask because the dems have already lined up Sham-peachment III over the ChiCom flu as well as resurrected Sham-peachment I as Sham-peachment IV over the Mueller/Weissman grand jury testimony that is staged a la Judge Sullivan.

Limited blogger म्हणाले...

The media and the democrats had thought they killed and buried the Hydroxychloroquine story.

But Trump shows them that it's not over until he says it's over.

The media and Pelosi's insane hysterical shrieking it delicious to watch.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Pelosi looks like death warmed over, and shouldn't be attacking anyone's looks. Trump isn't thin, but he's not that fat for a guy over 6 feet and over 70.

If Pelosi wants to give people health advice, go talk to her friends Nadler and Shiff. One looks unhealthy, the other looks crazy.

pacwest म्हणाले...

Of course Pelosi, 3rd in line, is against anything that would keep POTUS and VP alive. This is news?

rcocean म्हणाले...

HCQ - can't hurt, and might help. The medical jury is out. WE need more research. but that takes time. Its insane that this has become a political matter, but y'know if Trump says anything is OK, then the D's and the media MUST attack it. If Trump was to attack HCQ tomorrow, Pelosi and the NYT would suddenly jump 180 degrees say its the wonder drug.

The only consistent MSM principle: Trump is always wrong.

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Ann Althouse said...People believe what they want to believe and they want to believe there's a pill for that.

I recommend the red pill for today's leftists.

Their fantasy world is becoming increasingly unstable with lies piled upon lies and false narratives. It could topple at any moment and people would be hurt.

narciso म्हणाले...

you notice how most of that expert advice, turns out to be fatal, in new York, los angeles, lansing, Pittsburgh et al,

rcocean म्हणाले...

Drugs can be neutral, be slightly effective, and very effective. Or harmful. HCQ-Zinc seems to help some people and doesn't have many bad side-effects. Trump's doctor just said "Meh, it couldn't hurt". He's probably skeptical, but maybe..who knows...

Althouse is correct though. Seeing all the Trump haters attack a possible cure, puts them in a very bad light. But then its obvious they LOVE this shutdown.

buwaya म्हणाले...

For what its worth, we were tested for Covid (1 hour antibody test) and the result was negative. Very disappointing.

As for HCQ/Quinine - this whole fear of it is ridiculous.
It may or may not help with Covid, but the likelihood that it would hurt anyone in particular is extremely remote.

mandrewa म्हणाले...

Roger Seheult's Coronavirus Pandemic Update 71, from last Friday, has been deleted from YouTube. The video was simply him walking through and reading and discussing a paper published on May 8th by New York University Langone Health (NYULH) hospital. NYULH is one of the United State's top research hospitals.

The paper compares outcomes for seriously ill patients treated with hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin versus hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin plus zinc. The difference between the two groups was solely whether or not they were being given zinc.

The reason NYULH was treating patients with hydroxychloroquine was that it was the standard of care, or in other words, there was no known better treatment at that point in time.

There are at least two hypotheses about why hydroxychloroquine would be helpful. And without going into the details one hypothesis is that hydroxychloroquine by itself is what suppresses the virus while the other is that hydroxychloroquine transports zinc across the cell membrane into the cytoplasm and it's really the zinc that suppresses the virus.

This was a retrospective study. It was not a deliberate experiment. It was a fortunate accident that was driven by the standard of care at the time. It covers a little over a month of NYULH's experience with Covid-19 patients.

For the first two weeks they were treating Covid-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin. For the last two weeks they were treating Covid-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin plus zinc.

Cutting to the chase, the Covid-19 patients had about half the mortality when zinc was part of the drug regimen.

Since this was not an intentional comparison, the patients were clearly selected randomly. It was not blind since of course the doctors knew who was receiving what, but since this was not a pre-planned experiment, it's hard to see how this lack of blindness could have changed things.

Most of the paper is about looking for statistically significant differences between the two groups. Fortunately, other than outcomes, they were almost, from a statistical perspective, the same.

The only two significant clinical and statistical differences between the groups were lymphocyte count, where one group had an average of 1.0 and the other 0.9, and troponin levels, where one group had an average of 0.1 and the other 0.15.

Some of the differences in outcome seem complicated but it all makes sense if you assume that past a certain point -- and the paper hypothesizes it is once a cytokine storm has started -- then these drugs do no good.

But if they are given before that point, even if it's only a day or two before that point, the zinc plus hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin combo dramatically improves survival rates.

See Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin plus zinc vs hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin alone: outcomes in hospitalized COVID-19 patients

HistoryDoc म्हणाले...

Thank you Nancy Pelosi or making fat shaming acceptable again. I wonder who else could be targeted with that slur? I continue to be amazed at the "norms" dems are willing to violate when it suits their purpose. They make hypocrites blush.

I'm Not Sure म्हणाले...

"Nancy Pelosi is a horrible, malignant hag"

Horrible, malignant hags everywhere: "Wait- what? I'm being compared to Nancy Pelosi? What did I ever do to you?"

iowan2 म्हणाले...

Feder, your asking for a cite that no person taking the HQC+ has contracted COVID.

I understand the inclination to "gotcha" an ideological foe. Not sure why you instinctively turn this to ideology where it is not driven by any ideology. Maybe you could explain it. From a logic perspective, it does not come into play

As far as the cite, the beauty of a forum like this, is, a statement like that calls on dozens of commenters and all the information, from hundreds of sources, to come into the conversation. I don't take the statement at face value. What I do think, will be influenced by those anti HQC+ persons response to the claim. So far, in just a few comments, no cites to challenge the statement that it is an effective prophylactic, have appeared. That lack of effective push back drives my opinion toward believing HQC+ is effective.

chuck म्हणाले...

The media blitz against hydroxychloroquine that started when Trump first mentioned it is silly and driven by politics. I don't see any reason for Trump to be lying about taking it, it is already a widely used prophylactic among people at risk of being infected.

rcocean म्हणाले...

BTW Trump - at 6-2 - would have to weigh 235 just to considered "Obese". And 275 to have a BMI of 35. BTW, Brando at age 69 had a BMI of 44, yet lived for another 11 years.

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

No one on the HCQ+z+D regimen has contracted the WuFlu.

Does that really prevent catching the virus or just combat or prevent the symptoms?

brylun म्हणाले...

@MadisonMan: Adele lost much weight!

John henry म्हणाले...

Blogger narciso said...

all the wrong advice is being given:

I can't read the article but I understand that Brazil is not locked down.

Yet they have 80 deaths/million population.

US has 279

According to worldometer.

General disclaimer and caveat about the non-trustworthiness of the data.

John Henry

Lnelson म्हणाले...

Young Mr Botox interviews old Ms Botox about the presidents looks.

Ray - SoCal म्हणाले...

From Twitter
Joel B. Pollak @joelpollak

If hydroxychloroquine were as dangerous as they say, you'd think the media would be delighted
@realDonaldTrump
is taking it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/joelpollak/status/1262495922396622848?

chuck म्हणाले...

The media blitz against hydroxychloroquine that started when Trump first mentioned it is silly and driven by politics. I don't see any reason for Trump to be lying about taking it, it is already a widely used prophylactic among people at risk of being infected.

Anne-I-Am म्हणाले...

I just shake my head at those of you who claim that pharma doesn't want "cures" or "cheap alternatives." What nonsense.

"Pharma" is not a monolith. Nor is it made up of non-humans. Pharma consists of researchers, clinicians, sales people, marketers, janitors, logistics people, etc., etc. PEOPLE. People who get cancer, infectious diseases, heart disease, lung disease, kidney disease--every single disease you non-pharma people get. People who DIE from these diseases, just like you. Whose parents, siblings, children, friends, and acquaintances DIE from these diseases.

Or do you think that because I am in pharma, I never get sick; my relatives don't get sick, don't die, don't suffer?

Pharma doesn't find "cures" for many diseases because there are no cures to be found with the technology that we have.

The pharma conspiracy nuts are just that, nuts.

Ray - SoCal म्हणाले...

Sharyl Atkinson Investigation
Hydroxycholoroquine: May 17, 2020: We follow the money behind the media-driven debate over using the anti-malaria pill hydroxychloroquine for coronavirus

http://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-story/hydroxychloroquine

Lurker21 म्हणाले...

One phrase that ought to be stricken from the political lexicon is "The grownups are back in charge." You heard it when Obama took over, when Trump took over, when a new party takes over in Congress, when a few appointees are replaced, or when people like a new candidate, though the people saying it are different depending on which party the change benefits. And you'll hear it when Trump leaves office.

The "grown-ups" are gone. They aren't coming back. Not soon. Maybe not ever.

Nonapod म्हणाले...

While Nancy Pelosi appears to have a healty BMI, she does have a few other concerning health indicators. She frequently speaks with a stammer and I'm pretty sure I've seen what appear to be tremors in her hands. In someone her age could be indicative of the early stages of some kind of neurodegenerative condition.

Her face seems to have that pulled look of someone who has had extensive plastic surgery. She could have body dismorphia.

Drago म्हणाले...

We are talking about a left/LLR-left that still claims we have no idea where this virus originated.

So their HCQ commentary on top of their pro-ChiCom and pro-Iranian mullah narratives is at least very consistent.

mandrewa म्हणाले...

The only reason that YouTube is deleting videos talking about hydroxychloroquine in a non-negative way is because Trump recommended it.

It's unbelievable that they would be doing this if politics were not involved.

Likewise I've seen an amazing number of articles by journalists claiming that there is no scientific evidence for the use of hydroxychloroquine.

This is astonishing when you consider that hydroxychloroquine has been part of the standard of care for a good many countries, including the United States, for a significant part of this epidemic.

It's also astonishing when of course there are scientific papers out there talking about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine and their use in fighting viruses.

Anne-I-Am म्हणाले...

More on the idiotic idea that pharma wants to kill off competition:

For the diseases for which drug companies are developing therapies today, there are no single, one-and-done, therapies. (There really weren't for things like hypertension, either, but let's leave that aside.)

The more we learn about disease such as cancer and neurodegenerative diseases, the more complexity we discover. This complexity means that many, varied therapies are needed.

Take leukemia, something about which I know a little: If you, John Henry, were to develop acute myeloid leukemia (the most common adult acute leukemia), your physician would run several tests that allow him to determine some of the molecular defects that underlie your disease. At this point, hematologists have identified hundreds of such defects. We have specific, targeted therapies for three of them. We have broad-spectrum chemo. We have several therapies that are not targeted to a specific mutation, but are less toxic than chemo.

Then we have the closest thing to a cure: hematopoietic stem cell transplant. At least half of patients who have HSCT relapse.

And people continue to die from AML.

To think that there COULD be a single cure for this disease, but that pharma is sitting on it, is childish. You would also have to believe that hematologists have no interest in curing their patients. And that the patients have no interest in a cure. Etc., etc.

I really shouldn't have to rebut your silly assertions, but here we are.

Ambrose म्हणाले...

Media needs a way to distract its readers from the fact that -outside of the negligence of Democrat run NY - the country isgsbfking COVID-19 pretty well. Trump is doing an exemplary job.

Inga म्हणाले...

“I'd like to call attention to my possible error last night. I'll assume Yancey Ward is correct in his analysis of Georgia numbers and how they are reported differently in different places. My interpretation likely overstated the actual drop in cases there since they opened up, although my general point was still supported.”
————————————-
“The Georgia Department of Public Health confirmed 38,624 cases of COVID-19 Tuesday at 9 a.m., an increase of 341 cases from 7 p.m. Monday.”

Read more here: https://www.macon.com/news/coronavirus/article242834961.html#storylink=cpy

Iman म्हणाले...

Hey, is Stacey Abrams morbidly obese?

I think she’s orbitly obese, as she so fat she has her own moons...

cacimbo म्हणाले...

NPR had a doctor on this morning who flat out stated Trump is putting himself in danger by taking hydroxychloroquine. That is the party of "science". Believe a doctor who has never met Trump, never mind examined him over what Trump's actual physician advised for him.

Puzzled why you would doubt he is taking hydroxychloroquine. I asked my doctor about it two months ago and he told me it was impossible to get because all the doctors and nurses had begun taking and hoarding. In the preventative dosage there is almost no risk of side effects. The treatment dosage is much higher and perhaps riskier.

Ralph L म्हणाले...

second in line for the presidency if Trump dies

She will be first in line if Trump dies. She's second now.

Bilwick म्हणाले...

Pelosi is morbidly statist. (And since statism kills, the use of the term "morbidly" is prfect;y justified in this context.)

Ray - SoCal म्हणाले...

I’m glad Trump shattered the anti hydroxychloroquine Overton window that had been created.

State requirements to prescribe:
https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2020-04/board-of-pharmacy-covid-19-prescribing.pdf

And the anti hydroxychloroquine campaign was winning - prescription statistics:
https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/04/28/covid19-coronavirus-hydroxycholoroquine-lupus-trump/

mandrewa म्हणाले...

It's still possible to see Roger Seheult's walkthrough of the New York University Langone Health hospital paper, but you have to go to the MedCram.com website and create an account to see it. The account is free.

He does a far more thorough job of accurately discussing the paper than I did above.

YouTube has also deleted many of Seheult's earlier videos discussing hydroxychloroquine but they are all still at MedCram.

More and more this is reminding me of Climate Science. Is this how we do science in the 21st century? Are this how we decide what is true?

The majority doesn't debate ideas they just delete anything the minority says?

And by the way I have no idea what the majority of scientists in the field think. But I'm pretty darn sure that most scientists are exceedingly afraid of the politically correct.

Iman म्हणाले...

I recommend the red pill for today's leftists.

I recommend cyanide to cure what ails ‘em.

Butkus51 म्हणाले...

Pelosi and Biden can't make two coherent statements in a row. That's why their message resonates so dearly to dems.

dbp म्हणाले...

Ironically, it's more likely Trumps addiction to tanning beds is what will really prevent disease. That big dose of vitamin D should be helpful.

And yeah, he gets made fun of for tanning too.

TheOne Who Is Not Obeyed म्हणाले...

I am glad that Nancy continues to fling poo back at Trump. Trump is a world-class poo-flinger and that is part and parcel of his appeal to a broad swath of the electorate. After all these years of leftists calling conservatives names with no push back, Trump came along and started pushing back, hammer-and-tongs. And now the Dems' and their media lackeys' facade of civility BS is dropping under the pressure of the plandemic, and we can see what truly horrible people liberals are without the media hiding the fact.

Michael K म्हणाले...

andrewa said...
The only reason that YouTube is deleting videos talking about hydroxychloroquine in a non-negative way is because Trump recommended it.


Yes, and now Fox News is joining in. The Murdoch kids seem determined to kill that goose. Neil Cavuto, who has MS and may be jealous of diseases that can be cured, is ranting about risk. The thing that no one talks about is the number of docs who are taking it or keeping a supply ready. I made sure my family had some before it got hard to get.

Tom म्हणाले...

So, Trump is 73, Biden is 77, and Nancy is 80. Does it look like there’s only 7 years of difference between this group?

Trump, by a far stretch, looks much younger and vibrant than the other two. And, he doesn’t seem to be aging like his predecessors in office did.

And how are people this old the only folks who can lead the country?

bagoh20 म्हणाले...

“The Georgia Department of Public Health confirmed 38,624 cases of COVID-19 Tuesday at 9 a.m., an increase of 341 cases from 7 p.m. Monday.”

Just before opening up they were averaging 700 - over 900 per day, so that's what we call crashing the curve. My point remains true, and opening up does not satisfy your infection lust.

Now, it's your turn to admit all mistakes you've made here. Since you're not real busy, you can probably knock that out in a month or two of full time work.

traditionalguy म्हणाले...

The Globalist Cabal uses fake Science Big Lies as the authority to kill , steal and destroy for the greater good. That is precisely Nazi methodology. And there is everything wrong with that.

Howard म्हणाले...

Either way Iman, that's more Nobel than all the Trump cum you Cucks gobble up every hour.

Howard म्हणाले...

It's not really big pharma developing all these new cures. It's the startup biotech companies in Cambridge Massachusetts San Diego and the bay area of California. Once they crack the nut then big pharma buys them out and gets the medicine to scale.

Howard म्हणाले...

If hydroxychloroquine was actually very risky possibly fatal or incapacitating, Nancy Pelosi would demand that Trump take it as a prophylactic measure for national security purposes.

stevew म्हणाले...

They just cannot stop from speaking about Trump or the things he does and doesn't do. To call it TDS seems generous. If Trump is taking the stuff he could only get it via his doctor prescribing it. Yet Pelosi and all the rest, including random anti-Trump doctors, imply that they know best what is good and not for Trump. I don't blame Trump for exploiting this flaw in their character, if nothing else it must be fun. I do think it is effective in winning him support.

Joan म्हणाले...

I think it’s great Trump is taking HCQ, especially since Fauci tested positive. Trump has been exposed to the virus, who knows for how long, and it would be devastating for him to contract COVID and become seriously ill.

I’m sure Fauci’s diagnosis was a motivating factor.

I don’t get these people harping on Trump’s weight. He wears a boxy jacket cut too big, so it’s very difficult to say what size he really is. Notice the absence of photos of him playing golf? That would give a good opportunity to see his actual physique. But he does not have a fat or pudgy face (I’m looking at Stacey Abrams). He has some loosening of the skin but he’s 70, so that’s to be expected. He’s not a victim of excessive cosmetic surgery interventions like Pelosi. No one watching Trump spend hours on his feet fielding questions at a press conference could fairly say he presents as anything other than robust and healthy... the exact opposite physically and mentally of Pelosi and Biden.

Char Char Binks, Esq. म्हणाले...

Lefties love to say hydroxychloroquine is unproven for safety and efficacy against Wuhan, but that’s only half true. It’s been proven for safety, but like all other substances known to man, it hasn’t been proven against Wuhan.

Readering म्हणाले...

POTUS feeds another great Sarah Cooper tik tok.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

I think it likely Trump is telling the truth here. I would also suggest that Pelosi believes the hydroxy-chloroquine treatment is effective, and that is why she really would prefer Trump stop taking it. Don't most of us realize that the Democrats would really be overjoyed for both Trump and Pence to catch the Kung Flu and die?

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

"It's not really big pharma developing all these new cures. It's the startup biotech companies in Cambridge Massachusetts San Diego and the bay area of California. Once they crack the nut then big pharma buys them out and gets the medicine to scale."

You are so full of shit, Howard, and you don't even know it. Why don't you don't you go read about Moderna and find out where they got the bulk of the money that kept them funded for the last 10 years.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"Cutting to the chase, the Covid-19 patients had about half the mortality when zinc was part of the drug regimen."

Which is what I have been saying for over a month now. The reason they have all these studies that say it doesn't do any good is because it doesn't do any good -- without the zinc. I suppose it might do a little good, if you have a lot of zinc in your diet.

Jupiter म्हणाले...

"Or do you think that because I am in pharma, I never get sick; my relatives don't get sick, don't die, don't suffer?"

How bout maybe I think that even though you are "in pharma", that doesn't necessarily mean that Pharma wants what you want? The "best drug", from a Pharma point of view, is one that has to be taken regularly for the rest of your life, or you get very sick. People who sell drugs like that used to be called "pushers".

Kyzer SoSay म्हणाले...

"Now, it's your turn to admit all mistakes you've made here. Since you're not real busy, you can probably knock that out in a month or two of full time work."

Inga doesn't have enough time left on Earth to correct all the mistakes she's made here, but might have enough to correct her Trump-era falsehoods and lies.

Kyzer SoSay म्हणाले...

"Either way Iman, that's more Nobel than all the Trump cum you Cucks gobble up every hour."

The projection is strong with this one. Why anyone believes he's not a 22-yr old mediocre college student with a gutter mind is beyond me.

Amadeus 48 म्हणाले...

When I saw Fauci saying, "Well, I might take it in a controlled study" six weeks ago, I immediately thought, "Fauci is taking it in a controlled study."

Amadeus 48 म्हणाले...

By the way, this isn’t a good look for Pelosi. I think the Cali HR special election has been a real downer for her. Handwriting on the wall: Mene mene tekel upharsin. She has been weighed in the balance and been found wanting. All the Botox in the world can’t hide it.

Kyzer SoSay म्हणाले...

Once again, the intelligent portion of this blog's commentariat was ahead of the curve. I think that these threads singled out HCQ_Zpak_Zinc back in mid-March (I was a loud advocate but I don't think I was the first, not quite). Hopefully y'all have talked to your doctors and laid in a little supply. I did not, but I take zinc everyday (used to be every other day) along with Vitamin C, and I've been getting plenty of sunshine because I refused to quarantine and instead I go outside plenty (without a mask, so clearly I'm responsible for untold numbers of dead children and puppies and grandmas). I exercise and lift weights, and I smoke - and apparently the Peking Pox (h/t to John Henry, I think) doesn't like lungs that are lightly tarred. Still think I may have already gotten it due to my early year business travels, but who TF knows?

Michael K म्हणाले...

Howard said...
Either way Iman, that's more Nobel than all the Trump cum you Cucks gobble up every hour.


More evidence that Howard is gay. YOPu sure like that gay talk, Howard.

bleh म्हणाले...

What about that lard ass, Gov. Stacey Abrams of Georgia, isn’t she too fat to be Vice President? Not exactly a healthy imagine to project to young people of this country, especially young black girls.

n.n म्हणाले...

New insights on the antiviral effects of chloroquine against coronavirus: what to expect for COVID-19?

The multiple molecular mechanisms by which chloroquine can achieve such results remain to be further explored. ... preliminary data indicate that chloroquine interferes with SARS-CoV-2 attempts to acidify the lysosomes and presumably inhibits cathepsins, which require a low pH for optimal cleavage of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein

Zn2+ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture

It's a disinfectant cocktail, which is most effective when administered before the disease progresses to produce systemic damage.

Drago म्हणाले...

Kyzer SoSay: "Inga doesn't have enough time left on Earth to correct all the mistakes she's made here, but might have enough to correct her Trump-era falsehoods and lies."

Nope.

Even that narrow focus would require more hours than exist in a day/week/year.

Inga still thinks Carter Page is a russian agent and Trump laundered russian oligarch money and Trump colluded with Putin and Russia hacked the DNC and the hoax dossier is real and verified and "never proven false", etc.

That's why she and ARM avoid any of those subjects like the plague (topical, no?).

Even better, the dems have publicly announced Sham-peachment IV, based on the carcass of Sham-peachment I, is back in business so we are about to see a replay of 2016-2019.

"unexpectedly"

narciso म्हणाले...

we know how gilead has behaved, pushing for studies that have rubbished hcq, and we know bright worked for novamex,

Sheridan म्हणाले...

If Pelosi contracted Covid do you think she wouldn't consider taking the Hydroxychloroquine/zinc/zpak treatment? Her political statements aside, she would first react like every other human being who's just been given a life-threatening medical diagnosis. Fear, trepidation and despair. Like a plunge into a small pool from a great height. Only after that first reaction passes do people re-engage their logical self (not necessarily calm self) and start pondering steady courses of action.

John henry म्हणाले...

Blogger Anne-I-Am said...

I just shake my head at those of you who claim that pharma doesn't want "cures" or "cheap alternatives." What nonsense.

I take your point about all the people working in pharma. I know a lot of them, mostly on the manufacturing side.

But:

The purpose of any corporation is to maximize shareholder value. With a few exceptions like Patagonia.

Pharma is no different. How do you maximize shareholder value? By making a product that you sell a lot of one time? Or by making a product that you can continue to sell year after year?

This is especially true with pharma and their huge fixed developmental costs. It costs $2-3 billion (Yes, billion) to bring a new drug to market. That cost has to be recovered over the patent life of the drug, perhaps 8-10 years.

Not only does that cost have to be recovered, the $2-3 billion cost of bringing other, non-successful drugs to market has to be recovered in the successful drug. That means that a Lipitor must recover not only its $2bn but the $10bn from 5 other drugs that were not successful.

The only way to do that is volume. Cures do not drive volume. Treatments do.

Corporate management, by law, must focus on increasing shareholder value. That, not what researchers want, is what drives the direction of new drug development.

I do not attribute evil intent to the pharma industry. Just reality.

Perhaps, if there were not this $2-3bn approval cost, mostly due to proving efficacy, not safety, the business model would be different.

John Henry

Gospace म्हणाले...

CaroWalk said...
My 91 year old mother in-law has taken hcq for years. She was very sick at the end of February with what she thought was a bad flu, never went under a doctors care...turns out she had the Covid, about 15 deaths at her nursing home, but she’s just fine. Just sayin.


But as the haters say- that's just anecdotal, it's not evidence!

My wife and I both have Vitamin D levels at or above 40 ng/ml. Since the whole brouhaha started, our 21 year old college student, diagnosed over the phone, not with a doctor visit, was told to self isolate for 2 weeks, and if symptom got worse, head to the ER. He took a megadose of D3 and zinc, and if he had it, is completely recovered. Or maybe he didn't. My 29 year old took a test, it was negative. 6 days later, he was admitted to the hospital through the ER, put on O2 because every time he stood up his blood O2 dropped like a rock. Discharged the next day after a 2nd negative test. Doctors told him he had covid, but Dictator Cuomo forbids a 3rd test for it, even if doctors want one. He was home from work for 3 weeks. Paid time off, that due to new company policy, 2 weeks DIDN'T count against his leave balance. He got the megadose of D3 and zinc after he took the first test. By which time his symptoms were already pretty well advanced. Did the D3 and zinc prevent a cytokine storm? No way to tell.

And my wife and I? In our 60s, either never had it, or completely asymptomatic. Does having healthy Vitamin D blood levels help? Certainly doesn't hurt.

Anne-I-Am म्हणाले...

Jupiter,

You sound deranged. Or projecting. It's what YOU would do.

Pharma comes up with cures when a cure can be come up with. The companies adjust their pricing strategies accordingly. When atorvastatin was on-label and back in the day, a month's supply could be had at Wal-Mart for about $70.

A couple of companies (Sanofi?) have come out with genetic-editing therapies for some extremely rare metabolic disorders that lead to muscle wasting and death, typically diagnosed in infants & toddlers. The price reflects both the rarity of the disease (only a few hundred or maybe a few thousand) and the expectation/hope that the therapy will be a "cure." Around $1M. Of course, that isn't even a drop in the bucket against the sunk costs of the research.

I suspect there is no argument against ignorance and cynicism.

Brian म्हणाले...

Why are Democrats and the Media so anti-HCQ is the real question

Because they are living in a horror movie. Any good news has to be discounted. Immediately. Their brains can't comprehend good news. It's cognitive dissonance.

Trump is definitely taking it. If the anecdotal stories of front line doctors are taking it Trump is taking it. He's a businessman. He's evaluated risk every day for his entire adult life.

Big impact if he catches the disease. Little (manageable) risk if he takes the drug. So he definitely takes it.

Lawyers are trained to look at the worst cases and try to avoid them. It's why every legal document is a million pages long, but businessmen do deals with handshakes.

John henry म्हणाले...

HQL is off patent meaning that anyone can make and sell it just following normal manufacturing regs.

If I set up Acme Pharma tomorrow, I would not need to go through the FDA new drug approval process.

The absence of that huge, hundreds of million$, fixed cost means that I can sell it for a dollar or two (whatever my manufacturing costs are plus admin and profit).

It also means that anyone else can do the same thing. It is profitable but in the sense that Heinz selling ketchup is profitable.

In order to get it approved for Peking Pox, I would need to spend hundreds of millions and several years proving efficacy. I suspect you have some knowledge of what that involves.

Then, having invested all that money, and needed to raise the price to get it back, you form AnniePharm and can now sell it for kungflu but don't have that huge fixed cost to recoup. So you undercut me and I go out of business.

The way we regulate new drugs is a crime and I had been hoping PDJT would address it. He has done a bit of nibbling at the FDA and perhaps it is on his to-do list but I had hoped for more.

The pharma companies, like every other industry, being it utilities, tobacco, food or whatever is happy with more regulation. It keeps out the upstarts.

Pharmcos have to add a dollar a tablet to Lipitor to cover the cost of regulation? So what? The customer, usually insurance or govt, will pay whatever it is. Meanwhile the added regulatory cost keeps out competition who might develop a better product.

An added benefit, if the tablet costs $2 instead of $1 and we are allowed a 10% profit by govt/insurance, we are making 20 cents instead of 10.

Go back 130 years and see who were the biggest agitators for the Pure Food and Drug Act. It was not consumers or govt, though they were enlisted to help. No, it was the Swifts, Armours, Oscar Mayers and so on.

Or further back to the railroads and the ICC in the 1870s. The railroads were the biggest backers of the Interstate Commerce Commission and regulation of railroad rates.

Govt Regulation is the wall that keeps competition at bay.

John Henry

John henry म्हणाले...

Peking Pox (h/t to John Henry, I think)


Actually no. I got it from Ace of Spades who has a whole lexicon of colorful names to call it.

I'm not sure they are original with him, either.

John Henry

John henry म्हणाले...

Speaking of disinfectant cocktails, n.n. I drink 8 ounces of bleach every morning pretty much as soon as I wake up.

I probably drink another quart or two over the course of the day.

And I make my coffee with bleach.

It helps keep my innards disinfected.

I've been doing it all my life with no ill effects yet.

John Henry

rcocean म्हणाले...

Trump isn't playing Doctor - but his critics are. Where did Dr. Pelosi or Dr. Joe Scarborough get their medical degrees?

narciso म्हणाले...


So what are we doing here


https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1262403188096892929

GingerBeer म्हणाले...

I can't believe she could say that with a straight face. Oh yeah, right. Well, I'm sure she's expressed similar concerns about Jerry Nadler too.

Michael K म्हणाले...

OK, n.n that is a good explanation of Zinc function in viral replication.

Thanks for finding it.

GingerBeer म्हणाले...

Has Pelosi spoken with Stacey Abrams? Because in a WaPo hagiography she's fat enough to block out the fucking sun.

Jim at म्हणाले...

Trump's body. His choice. Right?

Right?

FullMoon म्हणाले...

Regarding youtube ,or twitter, censoring stuff. The left is organized to complain. Message goes out, youtube, twitter, tv or radio sponsors get a million complaints.

No need to read each complaint, the volume does the job. Too bad normal people are not as organized.

langford peel म्हणाले...

President Trump should use Buddy Hacketts old line about Joan RiverS.

“Pelosi has so much plastic surgery and her skin is pulled up so tight she has a goatee.“

Inga म्हणाले...

“I think it’s great Trump is taking HCQ, especially since Fauci tested positive. Trump has been exposed to the virus, who knows for how long, and it would be devastating for him to contract COVID and become seriously ill.

I’m sure Fauci’s diagnosis was a motivating factor.”

Did Fauci test positive for Covid? I haven’t heard or seen that anywhere.

Francisco D म्हणाले...

Nancy is not upset about Trump taking HCQ.

She pointed out his weight because she is really upset about his two scoops of plain vanilla ice cream.

She has to deflect the criticism of her $15 a pint ice cream in her $50K freezer.

walter म्हणाले...

Inga said...
There were quite a few bearded beer bellied older protestors there. Prime candidates for the ICU and a brand spanking newly bleached ventilator in about two weeks.
4/24/20, 5:29 PM

Biden: Look fat..

Yeah, Cavuto seems to be losing his TDS shit these days, going on about that VA study that employed HCQ in already compromised patients.
He's not a doctor, he says..but he conflates prophylactic/early use with end stage hail mary medicine.

James Todaro, MD
@JamesTodaroMD
·
1h
MedicineUncensored is now LIVE and will be the new hub for BREAKING results of #Hydroxychloroquine studies and the latest news on #COVID19.
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Anne,
It's only natural that "big pharma" prefers to put their R&D behind paths to patents. Generics are often starting points for developing novel compounds that can be newly owned. Those 3 phase FDA trials ain't cheap. And there's only so much NIH funding to be had.

Rabel म्हणाले...

"I think it’s great Trump is taking HCQ, especially since Fauci tested positive."

Wrong.

Ken B म्हणाले...

“ The pharma conspiracy nuts are just that, nuts.”

Yep. And if Bernie had his way the pharma industry would not exist.

Bilwick म्हणाले...

"What about that lard ass, Gov. Stacey Abrams of Georgia, isn’t she too fat to be Vice President? Not exactly a healthy imagine to project to young people of this country, especially young black girls."

Stacey the Tank probably gets a pass thanks to her race. First, they re-label her as being "big," rather than "fat." Then they tell us it's a cultural thing, and we're racist for pointing out what a lard ass she is.

FullMoon म्हणाले...

"Almost as bad as the flu deaths is the hope among too many that it does indeed turn out to be catastrophic.

Even here, some commenters are hoping for more death in order to prove their prediction correct. These poor souls will claim, and possibly believe, they want no more deaths but they gleefully post every bit of seemingly bad news and attempt to counter any good news."

“The Georgia Department of Public Health confirmed 38,624 cases of COVID-19 Tuesday at 9 a.m., an increase of 341 cases from 7 p.m. Monday.”


FullMoon म्हणाले...

Anybody ask Pelosi and other Dems if they are juicing?

Rabel म्हणाले...

Speaking of morbidities, has anyone seen a breakdown of exactly what is counted as a co-morbidity in corona virus deaths? I've seen lists, but without detail.

Diabetes is one, but does that include pre-diabetes, which is estimated to include 48% of adults over 65. Many of whom (like me) are in otherwise good health?

Does it include the pre-hypertensive?

Does it include those overweight but not obese according to BMI charts?

I know a lot of people think the death numbers are fraudulent, but I'm trying to ask a straightforward facts question - what counts as a co-morbidity?

rhhardin म्हणाले...

At the moment I'm taking chocolate-dusted almonds to fend it off.

Bilwick म्हणाले...

FullMoon wrote: "Even here, some commenters are hoping for more death in order to prove their prediction correct. These poor souls will claim, and possibly believe, they want no more deaths but they gleefully post every bit of seemingly bad news and attempt to counter any good news."

Remember, FM, that the State Cult is a death cult. Always has been, always will be.

roesch/voltaire म्हणाले...

She is just kicking a little sand/shade back of the sandbox bully who likes to put down women--it is standard fun in the Trump world.

Anne-I-Am म्हणाले...

Even generics are not easy money-makers. This is because the production facilities are expensive to maintain to meet FDA quality standards, and the chemical processes involved can be finicky. Read the book by Katherine Ebans, Bottle of Lies.. In order to make money on atorvastatin (Lipitor), the generic maker in India faked data, had contaminated facilities, and even used actual branded Lipitor as a stand-in for the testing necessary to prove to the FDA that the plant was producing atorvastatin within the specified purity guidelines.

Going the extra mile to make a generic that falls within guidelines can make the pill too expensive to sell.

daskol म्हणाले...

Morbidity and Moratlity Weekly is a real magazine, that we used to get thanks to my father's profession. It's been a great few weeks for that venerable title.

walter म्हणाले...

White House physician on Trump and hydroxychloroquine

RigelDog म्हणाले...

Well Pelosi is a stick insect, and studies have shown that older people who are somewhat underweight or even the "perfect" normal weight have shorter lifespans than those who are moderately overweight. Irony, thy taste is sweet!

RigelDog म्हणाले...

The obesity that we all hear about as a risk factor for COVID turns out to be MORBID obesity; a BMI over 40. Information that you would think would be more widely touted, unless they just want to continue to scare the shit out of people. I need to lose 20+ lbs, which is all related to how many carbs I eat, and I expect to get back to that healthy eating once I'm no longer gripping the live wires of Covid-fear every damn day and assuaging that fear with pasta. So the information that the overweight risk factor is actually that of morbid obesity is information I could have used two months ago!

Unknown म्हणाले...

I apologize, it wasn't Fauci who was diagnosed positive, but another task force member with whom he had contact. Fauci has placed himself in "low level" quarantine, whatever that means.
Here's the first hit on a Google search, from May 10: CORONAVIRUS
Fauci becomes third member of White House coronavirus task force to enter quarantine


That's what I get for skimming headlines. Again, I'm sorry for the error, but at the same time, if there are people walking around task force members exposing them to COVID, it's still a very good thing that Trump is taking HCQ. I assume he's taking the zinc, too.

Joan म्हणाले...

Sorry (again), that last post apologizing for saying Fauci tested positive was me. Forgot I was logged in to my other account.

hstad म्हणाले...

AA - am a Vietnam Veteran a took the 'Malaria Pill'[ Hydroxychloroquine]daily for 13 months. At the outset had very few side effects pretty much limited to 'nausea', 'stomach cramps' and 'diarrea' which all subsided in about 2 - 3 weeks, if I recall. But the size of the pill then, we called it a 'horse pill' [massive hard to swallow] at the time. But, I consider it to work on Malaria - did not get it - but those soldiers who skipped or did not take their daily doses in my Company all contracted 'Malaria'. And mind you that is a wicked disease for life. I don't know if it works for Covid-19, but Trump says he's taking it under supervision of a Doctor - so what's Pelosi's beef again? Is she a practicing physician? My experience was no damage to my health. End of story!

Todd म्हणाले...

Haven't caught up on all the comments but look at it this way, EVERYONE is morbidly obese compared to Nancy so from her perspective, that is how he looks.

Drago म्हणाले...

Inga: "Did Fauci test positive for Covid? I haven’t heard or seen that anywhere."

I guess even mind-reading abilities need a day off once in a while.

RobinGoodfellow म्हणाले...

“Morbidity” means illness.

Death is denoted by “mortality”.

RobinGoodfellow म्हणाले...

There is a lot of evidence that it will help, none that it will hurt. What's the downside?

It’s deadly to The Narrative.

Gk1 म्हणाले...

There is something extra amusing hearing health advice coming from a walking skeleton like Nancy Pelosi. Trump has always been very fortunate in his enemies.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM म्हणाले...

while Trump is taking HCQ

...Nanzi Pelosi is getting shot up with botulism toxin

wbfjrr2 म्हणाले...

Interesting that Althouse is often highly critical of those claiming to read others' minds, yet here she is reading Trump's mind. Who knew she was so talented??

My liberal tennis friends were talking about this on the court today. "Trump's taking Hydroxy, ha ha ha!!!"

Me: "Why do you care??"

Them: "He's not even sick! Ha ha ha"

Me: "Isnt that the point?"

I have no idea why otherwise intelligent individuals are so devoted to the idea that everything Trump does is stupid, lying, or evil.

Blinded by hatred fueled by what the media pours into their brains everyday is my best guess.

Ralph L म्हणाले...

John Henry, should I be drinking less than one cup of Clorox Outdoor Bleach daily since it's concentrated and has detergent?

Michael K म्हणाले...

Neil Cavuto was going on and on about HCQ this afternoon when I had the misfortune to see Fox on TV.

Fox seems to be following Conquest's Law.

John henry म्हणाले...

Soaking of money, I just heard that the cost of the testing program if fully implemented will be $65billion.

I tend to believe the source but need to check it. If not $65,000,000,000, there is still a helluva lot of money involved.

And is one test, this year, enough? Some will want multiple tests. And govt will probably want more tests next year.

If hql works, no testing is needed. Just start taking it at first indication.

Can't afford to let that gravy train be run off the rails by some dollar a dose generic cure.

John Henry

Meade म्हणाले...

The right to privacy in the event of an elective abortion is exclusively between Ms. Pelosi and her doctor. I'm sure she'll defend that right to the death.

But, in self-defense, President Trump's choosing to take a prophylactic malarial drug which might help him prevent contracting COVID-19 is between Trump, his doctor and, of course, Nancy Pelosi.

walter म्हणाले...

wbfjrr2 said...My liberal tennis friends were talking about this on the court today.
--
I hope they were respectfully kicking each others' balls.

narciso म्हणाले...

or o'sullivan's law, also works,

Howard म्हणाले...

Yancey, you are so Full of malarkey, your eyes are green. You said Funding, I said developing. It's a few smaat kids who crack the nut, then Pharma and other investors bet on the come.

narciso म्हणाले...


rocket surgery being practiced,

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/19/chris-cuomo-trump-hydroxychloroquine-included-coronavirus-treatment/

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

Howard, none of those guys "discover" anything without the funding, you dumb shit. All of these small biotechs- every single one of them depends on funding from the larger and already profitable pharmaceutical companies- literally every single one of them. Stick to topics that you actually know what it is you are talking about.

TJM म्हणाले...

Did Nasty Pelosi comment on the morbidly obese Jerry Wadler and Stacy, the tank, Abrams?

Michael K म्हणाले...

It's a few smaat kids who crack the nut, then Pharma and other investors bet on the come.

Howard thinks it is those affirmative action Harvard grads who are inventing the new drugs,

Darkisland म्हणाले...

Ralph l,

Depends on the concentration. If you are talking strsight out of the bottle, probaly a bit much

I drink it diluted to a couple tablespoons to 100 gallons water.

Or whatever the bleach concentration is that the water company sends to my house. Usually not enough to taste or smell. Though sometimes after massive rain and flooding they increase it substantially.

John Henry

Narayanan म्हणाले...

Trump did say that he was taking zinc with HCQ.

Wonder why all reports and questions leave zinc out of the combination.

effinayright म्हणाले...

Howard said...
Yancey, you are so Full of malarkey, your eyes are green. You said Funding, I said developing. It's a few smaat kids who crack the nut, then Pharma and other investors bet on the come.
*******************

LOLZ!!!

Perhaps Howard can offer some examples where his scenario has actually occurred.

Kirk Parker म्हणाले...

hstad,

Your memory must be failing you. The prophylactic schedule for hydroxychloroquine is once a week (same as for plain chloroquine, which I took for 5 years.)

As to your point, I think a weekly schedule actually makes it easier to forget; how regimented was the administration of it in the Army? In our case we were living on our own in a field research situation; No sergeant, lieutenant, or captain checking up on us.

Pianoman म्हणाले...

Seeing more and more anecdotal evidence that HCQ has been in use for quite some time now, but it's being kept quiet to prevent panicking and hoarding.

Given what we saw with toilet paper over the past two months, that's probably a wise move.

So when the dust settles, Trump will turn out to have been right about HCQ, the MSM will have stepped on another rake, and then the MSM will just move on to the next round of We Hate Trump Because He's Not One Of Us.

Funny how women are allowed to get abortions any time they want (My Body My Choice), but the President isn't allowed to take whatever preventative medications that he wants to take. Why, it's almost as if the MSM has a double standard when it comes to Trump.

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