@BravoAndy Here’s a great jackhole! He was angry that I reclined my seat and punched it about 9 times - HARD, at which point I began videoing him, and he resigned to this behavior. The other jackhole is the @AmericanAir flight attendant who reprimanded me and offered him rum! pic.twitter.com/dHeUysrKTu
— wendi (@steelersfanOG) February 9, 2020
१३ फेब्रुवारी, २०२०
Pick a side.
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
२२४ टिप्पण्या:
224 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Too cheap to pay for the extended legroom.
The guy punching the seat, tha is.
John Henry
WTH is the problem with putting your seat back? The guy looks to have plenty of room.
Complaining about this on social media has made it A Thing, so that social media freaks think they will be applauded for getting angry and acting out this way. You are sitting in an aircraft with reclineable seats. Deal with it.
I would have confronted the guy and talked it out.
No, I don't fly much.
How does anyone know they were on a "cheap flight"?
They are in coach, that's all.
And that doesn't give you the right to object when the seat in front of you, DESIGNED TO RECLINE, is reclined.
The passive-aggressive little shit in the back should have been reprimanded by the FA.
Mooooooo.
When one chooses to be in a cattle car, one shouldn’t complain about being inconvenienced.
The seats look nice.
If he wanted more space, he either should have upgraded or requested an exit row.
The chair is designed to recline. The recline is part of what she paid for when she bought her ticket. He should be arrested for menacing and battery and the airline should be fined for creating a hostile atmosphere.
Surveillance culture.
The guy in the back is clearly being a childish prick. But the woman loses major points for tagging the execrable Andy Cohen in her tweet.
If you read her twitter feed it sounds like she has threatened to sue for spinal injuries (in case there is any doubt as to the more horrible person in this one).
Seats backing on a bulkhead often won’t recline by design, reducing his legroom,etc. Still, a tool move on his part for the headbutting, and same for her for the video and posting. I fly too much (and now in coach, since I now work for a not-for-profit), and I’m all too familiar with both “characters”.
The guy is a dick. He would not have done that if the person in front of him were a man.
If the guy in the back was the same height as Mike Bloomburger, this incident wouldn't have happened.
The poll is a trap. You are not allowed to believe the white man is correct in any confrontation.
Having said that, WHAT THE FUCK? He's not allowed to punch her.
I would have ordered a drink and thrown it at him.
I don't fly enough to get upgrades, so usually get cheapest ticket I can. Southwest has more leg room and is far superior to American or United. I knew this could not have been a SW flight when I saw the video. Also, if you need to change your flight, SW doesn't charge you. Hate to sound like a SW commercial, but it is so much better than AA or United if you fly coach like me. Last year I was stuck in the same seat on AA/United as the guy in this video and remember thinking what I might have to do if the person in front of me tried to move their seat back.
agree w you Tim Maguire.
She paid for that seat, and she, along with all the other folks who paid for their seats, is allowed to recline her seat.
The jerk punching the seat needs a punch in the nose. but then I'd get arrested.
A punch for a seat back only ends up making the whole world punchy.
"How does anyone know they were on a "cheap flight"? They are in coach, that's all."
Airline prices are cheap. Much cheaper than in the old days, and that involves cramming people in. That's how the industry works.
"And that doesn't give you the right to object when the seat in front of you, DESIGNED TO RECLINE, is reclined."
It's a question of etiquette, not rights. Yes, she paid for her seat and the seat reclines. That doesn't make it good of her to recline without regard to the effect on the man or to photograph him and put it on Twitter. The person with the camera controls the edit. We don't know whether he began by speaking to her nicely and whether she spoke to him in a mean way.
"The passive-aggressive little shit in the back should have been reprimanded by the FA."
The article at The Daily Mail about this tweet says that the airline responded to this discord by giving the man a free drink.
So that guy shaves his head, and not his beard?!?
Is that kind of compensation/decompensation for baldness also a marker for why he would punch the back of her seat instead of asking, “If you don’t absolutely need to have your seat reclined, could you please make it more upright?”
Althouse: "Airline prices are cheap. Much cheaper than in the old days, and that involves cramming people in. That's how the industry works."
The man in the back may have been a late add to the flight for business purposes in which case the seat might not have been inexpensive. He might even be used to flying in first/business class or extended legroom coach and had to settle for this seat and was already primed to be angry about it all.
Doesn't make punching the seat correct by any stretch.
The jerk man will vote for Crazy Bernie. You just know it.
Missing some background. What about the notion that the guy, in back, who is inconvenienced for his crappy seat selection (HIS problem, not hers) could ask her to move her seat up a little.
Like, "Hi, I don't want to inconvenience you, but I'm really crammed in here and my seat doesn't recline at all, would you mind reclining a little less?"
She, at that point, has a choice to make. She could be nice and bring it up a bit - or she could tell him to pound sand., Even if she DID tell him to pound sand - he has no right to punch her seat back like that. It's harassment.
Filming his asshole behavior is akin to filming road rage. Sometimes ya just gotta do it.
I think reclining your seat in cattle class is inconsiderate.
Yes, cattle class sucks. But you know that slightly reducing your own misery is going to make the situation of the person behind you intolerable.
And re John Henry's comment: "economy plus" seats are limited in availability, so it's not always a matter of being too cheap. And I still think showing a little courtesy in what are unpleasant circumstances for everybody beats getting on a "muh market" high horse and dissing travelers who can't afford business/first class for being cheapskates or losers.
Once on a flight a tall man sitting behind me asked me politely (with a very pleading expression in his eyes) if I could refrain from reclining my seat. I complied. I guess I should have said "Fuck you, I paid for this seat with its reclining function! If you wanted more space you should have coughed up the 3-5X more dosh necessary to fly in a higher class! What are you, some kind of commie to think somebody else should pay for your comfort!?"
On the other hand, I do regularly (politely) decline to keep my arm-rest up when some person of size requests to be allowed to ooze on over half of my seat space. I don't say it, but I do think, "Pay for another seat if you need the room, fatso!". Am I correct in thinking that butt-space is not really analogous to leg-space when it comes to jealous guarding of territory, or am I just an anti-fat/pro-tall bigot?
For those saying "upgrade", that is often not a reasonable option. The price difference between coach and business is too stark, and even still there are not many fist/business class seats. Maybe getting a exit row is an option if 1, you qualify (this person probably did) and 2. they were not already taken. It would be nice if one airline experimented with varied seat configurations. Rows with big-butt seats, rows with extra leg room, etc. The pricing needs to be attractive to allow people to upgrade. I have traveled a bit, long flights to Asia, so I know how cramped coach is, but the 3x (and sometimes 5x) cost for business class was way out of my price range, so I had no options. However, in China, I took trains a number of times, and the 15%-20% upgrade to first class was well within my range and I took it sometimes. Apparently most Chinese are too cheap. I have the who 20 seat section to myself from Guangzhou to Shenzen one trip. But is was a short trip, less than an hour, and they are used to having no personal space.
Anyway, I would pay for slight upgrades to elbow and leg room if it were an option. A 25% increase in volume of space should cost 25% more on the ticket and the airline will get the same amount of revenue (Maybe even better since gross weight would be less with fewer passengers and luggage.
Judging by the replies to her tweet, people seem split about 50/50 over who is the jerk. Luckily, the always wonderful Virginia Postrel tackled this issue a few years back: A Flier's Idea for Peace in the Middle Seat.
P.S.: Not defending the seat-punching. What are you, dude? Three years old?
And yeah, he does look like a Bernie-voting soyboy.
If your only seat choice is the crappiest seat on the entire aircraft - get used to it. Suck it up. Grow up. realize your seat sucks and be a man. Or - book a different day and get yourself a better seat.
To make an additional point - I have never planned to be in the worst seat on a plane, but it can happen -- the flight you were scheduled to be on gets cancelled and you end up on standby; there is a death in the family and you have to get a seat at the very last minute. Not valid to automatically assume this guy made an economic decision to be in the last row. And by the way, no matter how cramped you are and regardless of row it is f-ing rude and uncivilized to ever recline your seat if there is someone sitting behind you.
If everyone reclines - then its all relative. everyone's recline cancels out the other recliners.
Usually - the seats in back DO recline. It's the exit row or bulkhead(?)
Do we even know if his seat reclines? It doesn't look like it./ Still - he's a jerk.
Too cheap to pay for the extended legroom.
The guy punching the seat, tha is.
Exactly. Since when does someone need a stranger's permission to use the facilities the airline was paid to provide?
Although after reading the thread, she does sound like a bit of a nut.
Sometimes there aren't any good guys.
Ann Althouse said...
"How does anyone know they were on a "cheap flight"? They are in coach, that's all."
Airline prices are cheap. Much cheaper than in the old days, and that involves cramming people in.
In 1978 I took the red eye from Miami, FL to Newark, NJ to join my cousin and his boy scout troop for 2 weeks at Camp Crosset lake. It cost me $283 dollars.
Just for fun, I just now looked at a round trip in July from Miami to Newark and there are multiple flights for less than $250. And the "red eye" is no longer a thing.
You know why First Class today feels like coach did 40 years ago? Because, adjusted for inflation, it costs what coach did 40 years ago.
"There ain't no good guys...There ain't no bad guys..."
I'd be pissed if I were her- but I'd also know when to let it go.
She got "X-rays"? give me a break.
Make Airlines Great Again
I would have voted in favor of the woman except she behaved as much like a jackhole as the guy, and she used the word jackhole to describe him.
I fly a lot. Don't recline my seat most of the time, but when I do it is only a little bit. This is not because I care about the person behind me, I'm just more comfortable upright. If the person in front of me fully reclines then I'll usually have to recline some too.
The asshole guy should have done the polite thing and asked the woman if she could sit more upright. People suck.
You're entitled to the full recline. You're not entitled to punch a seat back. This should not be this hard...
Virgil Hilts: And by the way, no matter how cramped you are and regardless of row it is f-ing rude and uncivilized to ever recline your seat if there is someone sitting behind you.
Fern: Exactly. Since when does someone need a stranger's permission to use the facilities the airline was paid to provide?
Perhaps a compromise pricing schedule would allow one to pay a little more not to be seated behind an uncivilized (aka libertardian) passenger.
"Disclaimer: This content is exclusively managed by Caters News Agency. To license or use in a commercial player please contact licensing@catersnews.com or call +44 (0)121 616 1100 / +1 646 380 1615"
Hmm. First the FBI and now this. The woman does seem a bit center-stage.
There's an air of The Stanford Prison Experiment in some flight crews...
althouse: "It's a question of etiquette, not rights. Yes, she paid for her seat and the seat reclines. That doesn't make it good of her to recline without regard to the effect on the man or to photograph him and put it on Twitter. The person with the camera controls the edit. We don't know whether he began by speaking to her nicely and whether she spoke to him in a mean way."
***************************
You've said many times that you don't like flying, so perhaps you're not as experienced on this kind of stuff as we (former) road warriors are.
If the lady in front has to be "considerate" of the person behind her, then shouldn't the person in front of *her* have to compensate for that lady's inability to recline her seat?
Ditto for all passengers going up to the front of the coach section?
No. I've sat in those bulkhead seats in both the front and back, and the only things you can do are ask for another seat, or suck it up. I never expected that others would have to do something about my bad luck.
As for the "we don't know" stuff...there is no excuse for the guy's childish behaviour. Full stop.
And you can bet he wouldn't act that way with a man, lest he get his ass handed to him.
Sorry to see you excusing a manboy bullying a female..
People are always horrified when a plane goes down, but...
P.S. Not that anyone cares but I'm sitting in EWR waiting for my flight back to BOS. Fortunately these particular flights often have many empty seats, allowing people to spread out and recline as they see fit.
I'm a frequent-enough flyer that I will gladly pay for a vanity flight at EOY to keep my privileges if I'm just a few thousand points shy of the mark. That said, I never recline my seat unless the flight is a late one or very early, early enough that I stand a chance to catch some sleep. I don't care if the person in front of me reclines, and the times I have reclined nobody has ever pulled shit like this. If your seat has the ability to recline, you paid for it and you can use it as you see fit. To the comments that mention reclining "just a little", airline seats are pretty finicky. You're pretty much stuck with "full recline" (which isn't much) or "ramrod straight". The in-between often won't latch in place and you end up either imperceptibly reclined or pressure-loading the latch until, five minutes later, it gives and you pop down to full recline with a sudden jolt.
I've heard that reclining can damage laptops that are setup on the tray table behind you - putting awkward pressure on the top of the screen or something. I've flown with laptops and never had that happen when the person in front of me reclines, but I see how it possibly could depending on seat geometry and whether the tray-table latch can contact the laptop lid. These days when I fly, the laptop stays in the case, and I read a book or just zone out with headphones. I don't make enough time to just READ or just listen to new music, so I use flights to catch up when the distractions of family and shop time aren't available.
Then there is this: middle seat gets both arm rests. Not a rule exactly, more of a guideline.
My son is tallish (6’2” and still seems to be growing) and most of his height comes from his legs. His nickname on the golf team was Daddy Long Legs. When he sits in a coach seat, with his butt all the way back in the seat, his knees are flush against the seat back in front of him. He used to recline his seat and scooch his butt up the back of his seat a couple of inches to relieve the pressure on his knees. He is no long comfortable doing this.
If we reserve seats we try to get emergency row or an aisle. If we fly cattle call one of us pays for pre-board to grab an aisle seat.
When my son sits in an aisle seat he can sit at an angle, with either his knees or feet in the aisle. Some flight attendants can get really snippy about that and I swear a few have intentionally rammed his feet with the service cart when he wasn’t paying attention to get them in quick enough.
Flying general aviation solves this...sniff.
As others have also noted, those rear seats that cannot recline are definitely a shit show. The remedy is to not sit there. Southwest, my pref airline, lets you choose your own seat to a great extent. After business select and family boarding, it's all down to how fast you check into the flight. Late check ins board last and get shitty seats. Other airlines let you choose on your ticket, and the bulkhead seats are the cheapest for a reason. Been years since I've suffered through that, but they're still better than the very front where you get no tray table for your drink, book, snack, etc. Sure, there's legroom up there, but unless you're over 6'2" I don't see that as a huge benefit when you're giving up the tray table to get it.
I remember when flying was an experience. Dressed up, had a cocktail, smoked a cigarette.
n 1978 I took the red eye from Miami, FL to Newark, NJ to join my cousin and his boy scout troop for 2 weeks at Camp Crosset lake. It cost me $283 dollars.
I flew between NJ and Miami every two weeks for weekends from 1973-1976 and paid usually $149 round trip. The trick is buy pairs of interleaving week-stay excursion fares going opposite ways.
It's not the airlines' fault - if you don't want to travel in those conditions, don't buy the ticket!
wholelotta; If the lady in front has to be "considerate" of the person behind her, then shouldn't the person in front of *her* have to compensate for that lady's inability to recline her seat?
Ditto for all passengers going up to the front of the coach section?
Yes, that should pretty much be the case in cattle class. Implicit shared rules of courtesy should trump explicit individual contract rules here, imo. For civilized people, anyway. (I won't recline into your face but don't worry, I won't bitch at you or punch your seat or video you if you insist on reclining into mine.)
She does note that he punched her seat 9 times, hard. And that is not on film.
I would expect the flight attendant to be trained to deal with this stuff. They should have all the tactics needed to calm a situation like this so both sides are appeased.
I am 5'11", and even in the cheap economy seats I have never had a problem fitting my legs in whether the person ahead of me reclines or not. Partly this is because I have short legs, but they're not that short. Unless someone is really quite tall, having the seat in front recline isn't going to result in his legs getting jammed if he is sitting straight, not slouching. Particularly given that in many newer seat configurations, reclining actually slides the seat bottom forward an inch or two to get some extra recline.
In most cases, people of average height complaining about their knees getting jammed are just engaging in a kind of performance, like young children who deliberately twist themselves into an uncomfortable position and then complain that their chair or clothes or whatever are uncomfortable. I have little sympathy. Yes I can slouch so my legs get jammed up against the seat in front of me too, but that's uncomfortable, so I don't.
Tall people or people with long legs -- eh, okay, they have a point. And people who are fat may spill off the seat as though they are slouching, so okay. Normal people? Just sit properly!
Bring a folding camp chair and set it up in the aisle.
I chose to blame the airlines. Airlines need to restrict the recline of their seats if they are going to cram people in.that eliminates these issues.
Now having said that, everyone knows you don't fully recline in cattle class. She's selfish and a hysteric and the guy is a passive aggressive asshole.
Pox on all their houses.
I always check with the passenger behind me to see if I am going to inconvenience that passenger if I recline the seat, and if asked to raise it back up, I do without questioning it. I am guessing there is a lot left out of the lady's story here. The threat to sue for spinal injuries is the tell for me. The airline steward handled it appropriately.
I never recline and I never say anything if the person in front of me does.
John Borell, ditto.
So, the deeper question here that this blog post is alluding to- Sanders or Trump?
My father was tall with long legs. I was raised with the dogma that to recline one's seat was the height of uncultured self-centeredness.
The seats are made to recline. Reclining is part of the deal. Banging on someones seat is not part of the deal. I'm 6'4" with long legs. I can get my legs fully extended under most of the shitty coach seats. My feet end up sticking out from under the seat in front, which is usually not a problem. Putting your feet in the aisle is not an option because you are interfering with the flight crew. Flying is safe and cheap. Quit bitching because it has never been better.
And by the way, no matter how cramped you are and regardless of row it is f-ing rude and uncivilized to ever recline your seat if there is someone sitting behind you.
I think it's fucking rude of the person behind to complain about a situation to which they knowingly agreed in advance, and to interfere with the front person's use of the facilities they paid for.
Jack Klompus said...
"There ain't no good guys...There ain't no bad guys..."
Dave Mason or Billie Dean?
Perhaps a compromise pricing schedule would allow one to pay a little more not to be seated behind an uncivilized (aka libertardian) passenger.
LOL.
Better yet, the front person might like an option to avoid sitting in front of a pompous asshole who believes they have the right to tell other people how they should sit.
Bernie Sanders knows who’s at fault: the billionaires.
Last couple of times I flew the seats did not recline. Probably a wise policy when the seats are so close together.
She should have put on her MAGA hat. That would have solved the problem.
I would side with the lady normally. But these two deserve each other.
There are ways you can calm someone like that down and still recline your seat. My back hurts in the inclined more than upright position you start in. I have explained that to people. I apologize and recline.
It looks like she was a snotty bitch about it and is in general that way.
I bet she gets speeding tickets every time she is pulled over.
She wants negative attention, probably from men.
Is it too soon to say daddy issues?
And really fuck that guy. Who has the time or energy?
Yancey
Yes, I can see it.
She = Trump, he = Sanders.
Freeman Hunt said...
My father was tall with long legs. I was raised with the dogma that to recline one's seat was the height of uncultured self-centeredness.
************
Why should any passenger check out other passengers' legs before reclining one's seat?
How does reclining a seat affect the other passenger's legs?
Fern: Better yet, the front person might like an option to avoid sitting in front of a pompous asshole who believes they have the right to tell other people how they should sit.
Nothing says "collectivist oppression" like the practice of consideration and courtesies that aren't explicitly spelled out in contracts.
Should have put poison in his free drink. The miserable little shit.
The Twitter feed does not show in either browser but I was able to see it by clicking in the space. He was upset because his seat did not recline. I can;t care about either of them. That's why I drive for any trip under 500 miles.
It occurs to me that a better title for this post would have been; 'When Assholes Collide'.
ot-Pick a side:
After reading this, If you don't believe the democrat party is corrupt from top to bottom - I cannot help you.
Yancey Ward said, "I always check with the passenger behind me to see if I am going to inconvenience that passenger if I recline the seat, and if asked to raise it back up, I do without questioning it."
Interesting comment. I never gave reclining the seat a second thought until some guy complained about it. He was a bit snotty, but it turned out his main concern was while he ate. Afterward, he didn't care. So, I saw his point.
I fly very little, but after that incident I've sometimes asked before I've reclined. And the only time I've ever felt "punched" was when the passenger behind me was a kid who kept propping his feet on the back of my seat.
The seats are designed to recline a little. Everybody knows that. If someones uses the seat as designed you have no right to be upset at that person. I don't see how her seat affects him in any way, but his actions are clearly affecting her ability to enjoy what she paid for. He is a dickhead. The airline should tell him to fly with someone else.
I often DO recline and I look behind me to make sure I'm not disrupting or cramming something and I usually see that the person in back of me is also reclined. then I don't worry about it.
What bothers me is leaving the reclined position when food is served. Sit up and eat! everyone.
ugh - flying is so tedious.
I would never punch the back of someones seat if their reclined position bothered me. I would say something first. geez - you're stuck with these people for the duration. work it out.
dickheads should get parachutes and a blind drop over Kansas.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
I would never punch the back of someones seat if their reclined position bothered me. I would say something first. geez - you're stuck with these people for the duration. work it out.
According to her he did ask her to sit up while he ate and she complied. This occurred afterwards and I do have to say seems a bit egregious on his part.
Last time I flew the seats did not recline as someone else also mentioned, and I assumed it was due to seats being too close together.
I don’t see how legroom is affected (clearly there’s not enough of it especially for longer legs, but the seat back doesn’t change it.)What does happen though is that you feel as though the person’s head and shoulders are in your personal space, and your tray table becomes unusable.
So while the woman was inconsiderate, the flight attendant should have tried to get someone who didn’t want or need to recline to swap seats with her. And tell the belligerent dude to keep his hands off of the seat of the passenger in front of him. Not on the list of things she should have done would be “serve free alcohol to a man in a confined space who appears to be several neurons short of a prefrontal cortex.”
Today it might be possible to keep the passenger in front of you from reclining her seat by coughing noticeably and frequently. ;-)
And the guy is clearly a four-plus asshole.
I fly a lot. Since 9/11, my motto is maximum politeness and compromise.
These two morons - probably Bernie voters - deserve each other.
NorthOfThe...
That's just it too, the angle of recline is not that great. It's not like you're in a barcalounger. It's a couple degrees. not a big deal. It was annoying him and he's a pampered douche bag for thinking the world revolves around him and his precious movie watching.
Only assholes and people who wear neck pillows on one hour flights recline their seats in coach class. The normal person calculates that if the person in front of them reclined their seat their tray becomes un-useable. So a normal person does not recline their seat. A quick recline by a neck pillow wearing person mistaking their hour flight for the fucking Concorde can do damage to an open computer on the tray behind.
When I purchase my space on an airplane, it includes room to recline. If someone behind me denies me that space, he is stealing from me and therefore runs the risk of being punched hard in the face. But since I'm a large man and not a small woman, I never seem to encounter douchebags like the one in this video.
First world problems.
I was just about to relax my stance on flying and NOW THIS. Back to 'nope not getting on a plane' even though at 60" inches I'm probably the only one on any flight that fits into the seats.
I think it would be a blast to ride a train from the north end of Canada all the way to the tip of South America.
Bay Area Guy said...
I fly a lot. Since 9/11, my motto is maximum politeness and compromise.
Good on you, BAG! Flying has gotten too stressful these days. I just grin, bear it, and pray for a tail wind.
Sorry, dude's a complete asshole for doing that.
"The jerk man will vote for Crazy Bernie."
Under Bernie, no one will recline.
They're both assholes.
If it were me, i would have slapped his hand away.
What a jerk. A little jealous because he was in the last row and couldn't push his seat back.
I refuse to stick my seat back into another person's face. And I don't even like people.
what movie what he watching?
I'll bet it was a super-hero movie.
"How does reclining a seat affect the other passenger's legs?"
If you recline faster than the tall person can react and fold himself up like a crab, you will smack him in the knees.
You’re stuck in economy class, where tighter and tighter seating arrangements can make a three-hour flight feel like 180 minutes.
Connecting to a theme from the Bloomberg post, I'm 5'5" and have always been comfortable in any airplane seat. There are upsides. I rarely hit my head on anything either.
The guy punching the seat is a jerk. Bald...beard...beta-male glasses...entitled...non-chivalrous...bet he's a liberal.
Frequent flyers know that it is jerky to put your seat back in coach if the seat behind you is occupied by an adult. This is a custom known to regular business travelers, even if some choose to ignore it. But the man's violent response was far more jerky.
Why do all the guys who act like this always coincidentally have to be low-T, glory-hole-mouthed soy boys?
I can practically hear the Moby playing through his headphones.
You buy a seat that reclines, you can recline it. Anyone who doesn’t like it can sod off.
This is the way Arnold handled it in Kindergarten Cop.
When the person in front of me reclines quickly they discover my knees in their kidneys. Sorry, asshole.
Who knows how it played out earlier, but the guy is a jerk. Verbally ask, complain to the attendant, whatever, but he acts like a three year old. Toss his ass out the window.
Worst flight I ever had was a 5 hr redeye, a passed out drunk on my right who wanted to make me his pillow. Screaming baby on my left, rowdy kids behind. Somehow I lived to tell the tale. Suck it up buttercup.
Why do all the guys who act like this always coincidentally have to be low-T, glory-hole-mouthed soy boys?
Yep. As I said earlier, no way in hell he pulls that stunt with a man sitting in front of him. He probably calls himself a "male feminist."
Pick a side.
No.
I'm going to remain cruelly neutral.
Re: wholelottasplainin:
How does reclining a seat affect the other passenger's legs?
The seat back rotates from a joint that is below of the level of the seat surface, so when the seat back is reclined, the bottom of the seat back at the level of the seat surface moves back a little too. If the top of the seat back reclines about 2" (for domestic economy), then you might lose about 0.5" or so of space for the knees. Normally that would have no effect at all, but if someone is tall, their knees may be level with or slightly above the level of the seat surface. That is to say, if you actually have long legs, and your knees are pressed flush against the back of the seat in front of you, losing that 0.5" could be quite painful.
The flight had a meal, which means it was a fairly long one. Given it's a long flight, reclining one's seat is a reasonable expectation for her.
If I was her, I would have stood up and had a coughing fit all over him. Perhaps even spill a drink in his lap.
If he wants to escalate it more, he can meet the air marshalls on the jetway.
I'm not a fan of the lady, but the guy acts like a toddler.
For some reason that guy reminds me of Chuck.
Francisco D
Yes. I was going to ask if we finally had proof Chuck is real — video of him.
She is Inga.
The a-holes who don’t want the seat in front of them reclined have no qualms about reclining their own seat.
See? This is why they don't allow guns on airplanes.
Maybe they should.
The party in front is given preference based on expected performance. However, if the party in back is reasonably understood to be harmed, and the party in front is only inconvenienced, then a polite request should be sufficient to influence the party in front's choice, and vice versa. That said, were there extenuating circumstances, including a priori conflicts that complicated rational and reasonable behavior? Was there a causal cascade?
The idea that the flight attendant sanctioned his punching of her seat and rewarded him with a free drink -- I find that astonishing. What did Wendi do that was so bad? Did she do something else? Or was it merely the high crime of reclining HER seat?
According to her...
It occurred to me that we are only given HER side of the story. She can act all noble and innocent and be the sister in the back of the car surreptitiously pinching her big brother who keeps telling her to stop, the parents yelling at him to "quit picking on your sister", until he hauls off and smacks her JUST when the parent looks back. IT is quite possible that this woman was being quite rude, but we don't know.
I do find it interesting the the flight attendant took his side...
Look. If you feel inclined to incline do the right thing and crane your neck and ask if the person behind would mind. This gives her the chance to close her laptop. It is really the right thing, the only thing, to do.
Mark
They stopped serving meals in coach on domestic flights. A long time ago.
Its bad etiquette to recline without telling the person in back. They may be eating or have their tray down with the computer, etc. He seemed to be tapping the seat, not "Punching" and her "i have a bad neck" sounds like Bull-shit or some yenta looking for a lawsuit. What's wrong with turning your head and saying "Is there any reason you're punching the seat?"
But it seems that she just doesn't want to communicate. Except to the Airline.
"I do find it interesting the the flight attendant took his side..."
Yeah, because we don't know what she was like BEFORE this incident. It could be she's a troublesome bitch, and the Flight attendant was offering him sympathy.
Mom, he’s almost touching me!
My MacBook is such a size that if you lean your seat back violently, it can crush the screen. I’ve had it come close to happening and had to yank the computer out of the way.
So, the way you lean your seat back is a big deal. If you’re cool about it, I don’t mind. But, if you lean your seat before 10k ft or lean it back back in an especially violent manner, you’re going to find out I have diagnosed restless leg syndrome. I’m not going to punch your seat but my restless leg will definitely be making contact with your seat back. And when you complain, I’m going to say you’re being being insensitive to my restless leg syndrome and should be ashamed.
Wa St Blogger said...
It occurred to me that we are only given HER side of the story. She can act all noble and innocent and be the sister in the back of the car surreptitiously pinching her big brother who keeps telling her to stop, the parents yelling at him to "quit picking on your sister", until he hauls off and smacks her JUST when the parent looks back. IT is quite possible that this woman was being quite rude, but we don't know.
While that's all true and she may have been just as rude at some point; it still doesn't justify his behavior.
What's so hard about opening your mouth and TALKING. Judas Priest, people are so weird. They'll either get into some stupid fight rather than talk OR they'll babble their family secrets at the top of their lungs like they're in their back yard.
"They stopped serving meals in coach on domestic flights. A long time ago."
you'll be lucky if you get a bag of peanuts and a coke.
What's so hard about opening your mouth and TALKING.
And miss an opportunity to "go viral"?!
They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.
They don't serve meals in coach - that's true. But they sell meals and they sell boxes and the serve drinks.
"Pick a side" . . . . . . . ummmmm. . . . . . Amtrak.
Flown a bunch in both classes over the decades. Rules for both givers and takers are: recline or don't as you please, let others's do that too, don't complain or explain, don't do it for the first or last 20 minutes of the flight.
RC-
I cannot imagine what she could do... that would make what he did appropriate.
"troublesome bitch" - huh? lets assume Wendi is a "troublesome bitch" - does that mean he can punch her seat like that?
Jack Klompus nailed it. That guy is a pussy and would not had done that to me an average 60 year old guy. Not cause I’m a badass, but because he’s a pussy and wants no part of a man.
They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.
Shirley, you can't be serious!
It depends on your ticket Virgil (With Southwest) just like every other airline.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
They don't serve meals in coach - that's true. But they sell meals and they sell boxes and the serve drinks.
And people bring stuff on board they picked up in the terminal. I was on a flight out of PHX once when the pilot had to come on the speaker and tell some of the passengers to stop chowing down so he could take off.
I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.
The seat back recliner is a sticky thing. Sometimes you try and push it back, and it resists, like a corrupt holdover inside the National Security Council. Then you push really hard and it jerks back and crushes anything in its path. oh the indignity.
If you fly - you know all of this. You adjust your behavior. You don't punch the seat in front of you like a toddler.
Maybe the drink wasn't a reward, maybe it was a way to sedate the jerk.
NorthOf-
Holy cow. People are pigs.
I hate it when people bring food on the plane like that. It usually smells bad. McDonalds smells really bad. So annoying. So many indignities and annoyances musts be suffered for the luxury of arriving at any destination in a fraction of the time it would take using any other method.
as Deb said above. First world problems.
This is simple, there should be no expectation otherwise. You pay for a space. You want more space, pay more.
The bald log cabin Republican is the annoying bitch in this scenario.
Howard - we've already determined he's a Bernie Bro. Nice try, tho.
check your privilege-- not just your bags!!
...too many white people on that flight
Yeah, the dude is a total dick. He had plenty of room to play with his phone, so punching the headrest of the seat in front of him was just total dick behavior.
On his next flight , he deserves a precosious 8 or 9 year old behind him, and a cranky 1 year old in his row, preferably next to him.
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
Holy cow. People are pigs.
Slobs, too. I was on a late flight from Charlotte to Phoenix a couple of years ago, there were people actually getting on the plane in pajamas.
The guy never would have done this to a sizable man. He felt comfortable doing it to a woman, but that's exactly the kind of thing that gets your teeth knocked out from a man. He is both a dick and a pussy..., and an asshole too. He's not even worthy of being called a taint, but he is close in both directions.
I'm more pissed off at the american consumer for putting up with the cramped airplanes to begin with. 'Mooooo' is right. I won't fly United or American and actively avoid them when I can. They pack them in until its practically criminal. I fly Southwest, Alaska and Jetblue when I can because their economy seats are reasonably spaced and priced. What do you expect when you pack too many rats in a cage? Fuck these guys!
The woman looks like she might be hot.
And she has a pussy.
So the woman.
"I cannot imagine what she could do... that would make what he did appropriate.
"troublesome bitch" - huh?"
We're only getting HER side of the story. I agree that you shouldn't be "Punching" someone's seat. But i hesitate to give her much support. As I stated, why didn't she turn around and TALK to him, instead of filming him and calling for the flight attendant? I don't get a good vibe from her. At all.
This isn't to support Soy Boy. There just might be TWO villains and not just one.
The man should NOT have slammed his fist into her chair, particularly not repeatedly. At the same time, seats on airplanes should NOT be able to be reclined at all. The space between rows has been reduced such that even a minimal adjustment backward of a seat will entrap the passenger behind like a mouse in a sprung trap. As long as the seats can recline, considerate passengers should refrain from imposing themselves on those behind them.
Howard said...
The seats are made to recline. Reclining is part of the deal. Banging on someones seat is not part of the deal. I'm 6'4" with long legs. I can get my legs fully extended under most of the shitty coach seats. My feet end up sticking out from under the seat in front, which is usually not a problem. Putting your feet in the aisle is not an option because you are interfering with the flight crew. Flying is safe and cheap. Quit bitching because it has never been better.
Aren't you special.
I agree with Robert!
Michael said...
Mark
They stopped serving meals in coach on domestic flights. A long time ago.
*************
They still serve box lunches on longer flights, along with soft drinks, wine and beer. So the trays still have to come down, which can be tricky if the seat in front of you is fully inclined.
I typically don't recline, and I flew a lot last year. Trying to fly less this year, but I have a 24-hour flight looming. I've never encountered such behavior. If I had to guess I'd say they flew out of Dulles. I have to side with the lady -- she's a Steelers Fan.
@ balfegor:
OK, I stand corrected.
With the exception of first class lay flat seats, I prefer that the seats don't recline at all. I'd prefer that people were not packed in like sardines, but what incentives do the airlines have for reducing seats thanks to the climate change believers?
"Quit bitching because it has never been better."
Did you just start flying last year? Flying used to be much better: more space between rows, wider seats, and actual meals for most flights lasting longer than a couple hours. All at reasonable prices.
Adjusted for inflation, airline prices are half what they were 30 years ago. I'm willing to give up a meal, and little leg room for that. I can afford first class, but I won't pay that kind of money for a bigger seat, and I never have. It's just transportation, and it gets you there fast. That's the only reason to fly - not for minor amenities.
"Trying to fly less this year, but I have a 24-hour flight looming."
I just completed a 50 hour trip, measured from the time I left home until the time I reached my final destination. One 17 hour flight mixed in there and long layovers (which I purposefully schedule to reduce the risk of missing a flight). And, having reached the "you can't take it with you" stage of life, I flew business class. The thought of doing this trip in coach sends shivers down my spine.
Robert is right, flying used to be much better than it is today.
"All at reasonable prices."
Airlines found that people buy on price alone. So they cut the frills. Free market at work. Lower prices + high volume = crowded airlines.
Re: Robert Cook:
Did you just start flying last year? Flying used to be much better: more space between rows, wider seats, and actual meals for most flights lasting longer than a couple hours. All at reasonable prices.
I think economy used to be better, and business used to be worse.
Even just 10 or 15 years ago, it used to be that business class, even on long-haul flights, you didn't get a real lie-flat seat. Nowadays, I don't think there's any airlines (at least in the developed world) with long-haul business that doesn't have true lie-flat seats. And in many cases (Cathay Pacific, ANA, some of the new United layouts) they've even switched to a kind of pod, giving you more privacy.
But the flip side of that is that in economy, yes, you used to get actual meals, seats were larger and more comfortable, reclined 4 or 5 inches, not just 2.
Also, people were thinner. Which, ah, makes a big difference for everyone.
I once flew -with several short stops - for 22 hours. Nearly killed me. If i had it to do over, I would have broken it into two separate days.
She claims to have a fused spine and needed to get x-rays due to his punching. If that was true, she should have left her seat up to avoid injury.
He is definitely an asshole for having a little tantrum and punching the seat. What a big baby. No doubt his friends are having fun with this. Also, was on Fox news today.
Best part is flight attendant giving the guy a free drink to calm him down. Kinda risky in some situations.
Back in 1940 the DC-4 had "sleeper" cross-country flights. You got an actual bed to sleep in. Of course you were paying 10 cents a mile, which is equivalent to $5/mile today.
"She claims to have a fused spine and needed to get x-rays due to his punching."
Next she'll claim whiplash in her lawsuit.
more first world problems
crop dust that son of a bitch
back into Stone Age
I'm old enough to remember when they had unrestricted smoking on airplanes. Can you imagine it? And the ventilation guaranteed that you'd be exposed to it no matter where you sat. When they started confining smokers two the back of the plane, you could get more sidestream smoke if you were assigned the row just before the smoking section. Smokers have always been inconsiderate of others and offensive. I was so happy to offer to put out smokers' cigarettes for them once smoking was banned in airports.
As always I agree with Freeman Hunt. I fly a lot for business and the tickets are not inexpensive -- albeit paid for by my employer. I am 6'5" and most of my height is in my legs. When someone puts the seat back, it pins my legs. Usually I ask nicely and the person in front either eliminates or lessens to recline. But once, while tired and hungry and depressed, some little prick sat down in front of me and reclined. I asked him not to. He refused. And so I punched the back of the seat as hard as I could. Three times. He still reclined but the flight attendant also gave me a free drink. The airlines need to eliminate the reclien feature.
"Nowadays, I don't think there's any airlines (at least in the developed world) with long-haul business that doesn't have true lie-flat seats. And in many cases (Cathay Pacific, ANA, some of the new United layouts) they've even switched to a kind of pod, giving you more privacy."
Yes, the lie-flat seat makes a 17 hour flight not all that bad. I actually got more sleep than I usually do at home. And that plane had the pod layout. Really quite nice. Cost an arm and two legs but like I said, you can't take it with you.
One thing to keep in mind, the FAA uses as a standard that people on airplanes are 68 inches tall and weigh 170 pounds. So seats that will accomodate an FAA standard person, may actually not fit a standard human of today. The FAA standard was created in 1938, and amazingly is still used today to do weight and balance calculations for airplane flights, both general and commercial. They do weigh the cargo, but make assumptions on the weight of the passengers, so thank the stars that there is a lot of excess capacity built into commercial airliners. Smaller commercial operators weigh everything and everybody they put on an airplane.
So as the seat pitch and width get smaller, remember that they are using numbers that do not fit the humans of today. Why the FAA does not update the staandard based on current realities, well my guess would be that as a rule the FAA is very slow to make changes, and the airlines like it that way.
I'm old enough to remember when they had unrestricted smoking on airplanes.
Elizabeth Bailey, actually a grad school classmade of mine, was appointed to the CAB by Carter and once got stuck seated just in front of a smoking section. She argued with the stewardess about some regulation under those circumstances and a verbal brawl ensued.
The stewardess defended herself later denying she'd called Bailey a bitch. I called her a witch, she said.
Speaking of polls, the Trump vs Sanders is still garnering....in favor of Trump
Why do they still have the no-smoking lights on planes? It's been decades since smoking was allowed.
When I see that video I think "This is what happens when a society tries to expunge all use of violence from normal human behavior." This is the behavior of people who have never been physically checked in their lives and can't even imagine it might happen someday.
Mike
The last time I remember smoking on commercial aircraft I was flying out of DC. I was seated in the coach bulkhead and the guy in first class ahead of me was drinking Scotch and chain smoking cigarettes: Robert Bork.
The flight attendant was there on the scene and already voted, by reprimanding the woman in front and offering a complementary alcoholic beverage to the man who had to put up with her.
What Big Mike said! The flight attendants are pretty good at sussing out who is the primary a-hole.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"Quit bitching because it has never been better."
Did you just start flying last year? Flying used to be much better: more space between rows, wider seats, and actual meals for most flights lasting longer than a couple hours. All at reasonable prices.
The only thing I care about is safety and price. All the creature comforts fawning stewardess services from back in the day cost a lot and those black smoke spewing jetliners used to crash every year. The new planes pollute less and use less fuel. I do have a new rule: If it's Boeing, I'm not going.
Speaking of smoking on planes, just a few years ago I was on a Lufthansa 747. My seat had an ashtray. The whole flight I kept thinking, "how old is this plane!"
And so I repeat with additional flourishes...
For anybody else trying to figure out links...
Use this as a template.
Click <a href="http://www.yahoo.com">here</a> to go to yahoo.
Put the link between the two " ".
Put the text between the > and the <.
<a href="LINK HERE">TEXT HERE</a>
Also: Watch out for(“) and (”) versus (") (Apple likes to be typograhically correct which is fine in usage situations other than HTML).
Click here to go to yahoo.
And the other two things you can do...
To italicise
To <i>italicise</i>
To make bold
To make <b>bold</b>
also note:
To do both
To do <i></b>both</b></i>
And you might try this to inspire clicking:
<a href="https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-reports-huge-jump-new-coronavirus-infections-deaths-oil-stocks-tumble-gold-soars">https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-reports-huge-jump-new-coronavirus-infections-deaths-oil-stocks-tumble-gold-soars</a>
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-reports-huge-jump-new-coronavirus-infections-deaths-oil-stocks-tumble-gold-soars
N.B. Apple users might like to review Bruce Hayden's comments about the Mac OS's use of the opening and closing quotes.
See toward the end of the comments at 6:31 and 6:35.
On February 12, 2020
At the Wednesday Night Café...
"One thing to keep in mind, the FAA uses as a standard that people on airplanes are 68 inches tall and weigh 170 pounds." This may be true but I notice airlines like Air France and Lufthansa have waaaay more leg room and overall space than their american counterparts. Its particularly grating that the food is also 10 times better on these flights. I say open up american domestic routes to foreign competition and see how quickly these birds change the layout of their aircraft 1938 regulations or no.
I think many occasional jet travelers don't have the miles logged to know about this 'etiquette' regarding seat backs and tray tables.
They're more concerned with the view out the windows, the free peanuts and soft drinks and the rest rooms.
Although these two look like frequent flyers.
Original Mike: Yes, the lie-flat seat makes a 17 hour flight not all that bad. I actually got more sleep than I usually do at home. And that plane had the pod layout. Really quite nice. Cost an arm and two legs but like I said, you can't take it with you.
Yeah, the pods are nice. If I could justify the cost of always flying pod to myself (not yet successful in my efforts, damn those Scots genes), I wouldn't mind flying at all.
(What I like best about it is stretching out, asking the attendant for another glass of champagne, and thinking about how those ungrateful proles in cattle class should be happy they have seats at all.)
What an amazing way to show your anger and frustration. This loser has no self control.
Something tells me the flight attendant reprimanded the woman for recording another passenger, and not for reclining her seat. In this situation I'm kind of a social utilitarian. If you reclining your seat, makes you only marginally more comfortable but moderately or to a greater extent makes the other person more uncomfortable, I don't think you should put your seat down. Though it really is I want to minimize the toe overall discomfort experienced by everyone.
Obviously the lady, who paid for a seat that reclines, who - like 99% of people - can't afford anything but Coach (sorry ann we don't all live off the state tit (teat), and who is being extremely polite and patient is in the right. But dumb shits like you can't see that. Because you're dumb elitist shits.
Obviously the lady, who paid for a seat that reclines,
Don't you think the man paid for a seat where his knees would not be crushed by the seat immediately in front of him?
and who is being extremely polite and patient
I mean she even admits that the attendant reprimanded HER, not the man. Doesn't at least suggest an inference she wasn't being completely polite and patient?
Grown Adult #1: "Would you mind if I reclined my seat a bit? I have a back pain and it's hard to sit upright for hours at a time."
Grown Adult #2: "I understand. But would you mind not reclining it all the way? As you can see, my back is against the bulkhead and I can't recline my own seat in order to compensate for yours."
Grown Adult #1: "No problem. Thank you."
Grown Adult #2: "Thank you."
-FINIS-
A little off topic. A friend of ours, an attractive blond around 5'6" was flying back from Paris. Business class. The guy next to her places his had on her knee. She moves it, and tells him he needs to stop or something bad will happen. Calls the stew and tells her what happened and tells her if he keeps it up, something bad will happen, and she should move one of them. Stew looks at the guy, he pleads innocence. No move.
Happens again a bit later. She goes through the same routine, guy tells the stew she is imagining things. No move.
Guy does it during dinner - slides his hand on her leg. She reaches over to the back of his head, slams it onto the tray and breaks his nose. (She is a Third Degree in TaeKwonDo and a 5th Degree in Aikido.) Stew comes over all upset, asked her what was she doing and our friend says, "I told you, if you didn't more one of us, something bad would happen." He declined to press charges.
Fuck that man's knees. Too tall? work a little harder and fly first class or stay home. Coach is not for you. If some super-hero-movie-watching-babyman douchebag did that to me, I'd knee him in the nuts and punch him in the nose. and I don't even know how to do those things.
6'4", more than 1/2 legs. When I fly I usually put my computer bag under the seat in front of me so I can access it. Plane takes off, if the guy in front reclines his seat I can't get my legs out of the way unless I'm using the computer, in which case putting the seat back keeps me from using it (gamer computer, it's not a micro). Putting another bag in the overhead after the flight is underway is a non-starter; I don't know if it's allowed, but the chance of finding space is slim and there's a good chance of accidentally pulling something out to fall on someone. I'm ok with a little recline, but more than a little recline means I can't move more than about 1/2 inch for the duration.
I suspect the lady was creating the problem & felt empowered to (1) ignore his pain and (2) post her side of the story. Could be wrong, but the flight attendant's sympathy did not seem to fall on the lady.
I'm with guy in back. Evil is evil and she is evil and he is fighting evil. That said, I noticed the majority in the poll was "fly first class". I am 6'4" and I basically do this for flights where the delta isn't crazy. Can't do it for work though. The buried lede was the shortness of the flight. Dude should have kept his powder dry. Still, evil is evil and reclining on the second last row is obviously evil.
Jordan Peterson would not approve of the baby-man. I'm certain of it.
So punching the back of her seat is considered OK? wow.
We don't even know if she is evil. She might be. The only evil on display is the baby-man punching the back of her seat over and over.
btw - the 'not enough knee space in coach' for tall people is on the airlines, not this woman.
& again - if you're tall and your comfort is entirely dependent on what the person in front of you decides to do, Perhaps a more powerful thing to do would be to understand your comfort needs and make a different more stratigic decision as to where you sit.
It's not a surprise at this point that the back of the cabin is horrible and confining to anyone of even normal size, and especially for tall people.
I'm rather tall, and when the person in front of me reclines, I deal with it. I cannot imagine pounding the back of the seat like that.
So Bleach bit comes out as a Democrat, thinking partial evidence is conclusive.
Althouse s comment is right. We are getting only her side of the story, and the hints we get of the full picture— how the stewardess reacted— suggests it’s not all on one side. So yes he’s being an immature twat but we don’t know the whole story.
Ken B-
No. I said the only evidence we have is the video.
Ken B - I would assume that democrats would take the Antifa-Punch baby man's side of things.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा