“The inspector general’s report now makes clear that the F.B.I. launched an intrusive investigation of a U.S. presidential campaign on the thinnest of suspicions that, in my view, were insufficient to justify the steps taken,” Mr. Barr said in a statement.Exonerated? I remember when "exonerated" had a strong meaning — back when the Mueller report was said not to have exonerated Trump because it did not prove Trump's innocence but only failed to prove guilt. Now, to fail to prove guilt is to exonerate? Ah, yes, it was in the text of the Mueller report: "While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."
John H. Durham, a federal prosecutor whom Mr. Barr appointed to run a separate criminal investigation into the origins of the Russia investigation, backed Mr. Barr’s findings in his own highly unusual statement. “Last month, we advised the inspector general that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the F.B.I. case was opened,” Mr. Durham said....
The statements from the Justice Department’s top official and one of his key investigators gave Mr. Trump’s supporters ammunition to dispute one of the key findings in the long-awaited report by Mr. Horowitz that excoriated the F.B.I.’s handling of a wiretap application used in the early stages of its Russia investigation... [and] exonerated former bureau leaders of accusations by the president and his allies that Mr. Trump was the victim of a politicized conspiracy to sabotage his campaign and his presidency.
Given the importance of the word "exonerate" in the Mueller report and its narrow meaning there, the press should refrain from using the word "exonerate" in the broad sense to mean that the inspector general merely could not find the evidence that FBI officials acted out of political bias. To be consistent with Mueller-talk, one ought to say that while the IG's report does not conclude that the FBI officials acted out of bias, it also does not exonerate them.
I just looked up "exonerate" in the OED. The relevant meaning it "To free from blame; to exculpate." But I was amused by this other (and obsolete) meaning: "To discharge the contents of (the body, an organ), esp. by evacuation. to exonerate nature, to exonerate oneself: to relieve the bowels."
1829 Health & Longevity 269 The bowels..ought to be exonerated at least once in two days.And flush the toilet 10 times while you're at it.
পোস্টগুলি
২৮০টি মন্তব্য:
280 এর 1 – থেকে 200 আরও নতুন» সবচেয়ে নতুন»It is a weird finding given every mistake and withheld piece of evidence tilted the scale in one direction.
Basically, in any other case, lying prosecutors who hide evidence is on its face unethical, illegal, biased or corrupt. These folks are being given a ridiculous amount of benefit of the doubt. Combine that with the systemic errors in the Clinton investigation which all happened to be in the opposite political direction, and it is willful stupidity to assume this was all innocent. Even if you thunk Trump hired Russian bots, the investigations are so flawed you really can't ignore them.
Kind of like the OJ Simpson trial. He might be guilty, but even if he is, you can't ignore how disastrously bad the police and prosecutors were.
The Obama administration spied on the Trump campaign.
They no longer disagree with this.
Now they are arguing about their justifications.
They should all hang.
I've skimmed through the IG report and its obvious that:
1) Comey, McCabe, the "Hurricane Team" desperately wanted to believe Steele and wiretap Trump
2) They were completely uninterested in any contrary information that would prevent them from Doing Item #1.
3) They had nothing but contempt for Trump and didn't want to inform him of a possible Russian agent or their surveillance - for obvious reasons.
4) Now that they got caught, Nobody knows nothing about nothing. Comey and McCabe just delegated the whole thing and can barely remember doing anything. FISA, Steele, Trump, Wiretaps? Hey that was years ago. Besides I had more important things to do.
To be consistent with Mueller-talk,
The press long ago abandoned even the pretext of consistency.
Exonerated? I remember when "exonerated" had a strong meaning — back when the Mueller report was said not to have exonerated Trump because it did not prove Trump's innocence but only failed to prove guilt. Now, to fail to prove guilt is to exonerate?
Now we will be subjected to the Mainstream Media (aka propaganda arm of the DNC) screaming:
Exoneration ... Exoneration!
Let's be patient and control our tempers. It will end reasonably well.
Either they were malicious, or they were incompetent. Either way, we shouldn't be funding an FBI who does this crap. Slash their budget by half.
The IG report is narrowly focused and seems to rely almost entirely on what people told them in their interviews. They didn't seem to be skeptical, and if they didn't find a smoking gun, Horowitz says "I could find no proof that xyz violated rule/law/FBI policy". For example, there's no policy that says you can't wiretap a POTUS campaign without any OK From anyone outside the FBI - so what Storkz did was cool. ANd there's No policy that says you can't take Steele's word on everything he says without any corroboration. So that's OK TOo.
"The statements from the Justice Department’s top official and one of his key investigators gave Mr. Trump’s supporters ammunition to dispute one of the key findings in the long-awaited report by Mr. Horowitz that excoriated the F.B.I.’s handling of a wiretap application used in the early stages of its Russia investigation... [and] exonerated former bureau leaders of accusations by the president and his allies that Mr. Trump was the victim of a politicized conspiracy to sabotage his campaign and his presidency."
My version of the article (5:02 pm EST) is a little different:
"The statements from the Justice Department’s top official and one of his key investigators gave Mr. Trump’s supporters ammunition to dispute a major finding in the long-awaited report by Mr. Horowitz that was one of the report’s few bright spots for the F.B.I..."
No exoneration, no excoriation, no victim.
Pages 186 to 190 in the Horowitz report documents how the FBI interviewed Christopher Steele's primary source for the hoax dossier in January of 2017.
That source said that nothing in the hoax dossier was verified and that it was all rumor, innuendo and hearsay with no substantive backing.
That source also told the FBI that the he/she (the source) never believed that this hoax document could possibly have been used for any official purpose.
The FBI at that point knew it was all a hoax (they actually knew it all along thanks to being in cahoots with the Clinton/DNC team) but anyway.....the FBI continued to use the hoax dossier to obtain 2 more FISA warrants to continue spying on the Trump administration.
Note to journ-o-lists: The Obama Administration has always been, and must remain, scandal-free.
End of transmission.
exonerate (v.)
1520s, "to unload, disburden," a literal sense now obsolete; 1570s as "relieve (of a charge, blame, etc.) resting on one; clear of something that lies upon the character as an imputation," from Latin exoneratus, past participle of exonerare "remove a burden, discharge, unload," from ex "out, out of, off" (see ex-) + onerare "to unload; overload, oppress," from onus (genitive oneris) "burden" (see onus).
To "remove a burden." How apropos in this context and other contemporary applications.
I did find this Hilarious about Steele meeting with his FBI handler:
Steele told us these notes were written within a day or two of the meeting. The notes reflect that Steele told Handling Agent 1 that Steele was aware that "Democratic Party associates" were paying for Fusion GPS's research, the "ultimate client" was the leadership of the Clinton presidential campaign, and "the candidate" was aware of Steele's reporting. Steele told us that he was "pretty candid" with Handling Agent 1. He also said it was clear that Fusion GPS was backed by Clinton supporters and senior Democrats who were supporting her.
When we asked Handling Agent 1 about the information contained in Steele's notes, Handling Agent 1 told us that he did not recall Steele mentioning these facts to him during their meeting.
Oh yeah. I COMPLETELY forgot that STeele told me he was getting paid by Hillary Clinton! Just slipped my mind - IG.
rcocean: "The IG report is narrowly focused and seems to rely almost entirely on what people told them in their interviews."
IG Horowitz was limited to ONLY speaking with some members of the DOJ and FBI and no other agencies and Horowitz can not compel testimony or demand documents.
In summary, the remaining members of the corrupt obama holdovers who felt like saying stuff said whatever they wanted and, given how Strzok and McCabe and others got away with lying openly in the first Horowitz whitewash they figured they could do it again.
Don't worry though, I don't think Durham is going to be much impressed with this.
It’s not just the withholding of exculpatory information, it’s that the Trump team was never given a defensive briefing. That’s inexcusable and damning. Barr and Durham had better bring the heat. As it stands, if Trump is removed from office or loses in 2020 then all of this disappears.
First pass: Trump is a crazy bastard who should be impeached for saying that his campaign was spied on.
Final pass: Trump had it coming and deserved to be spied on. He’s a Russian asset and must be impeached.
Exculpate.
Ooooh good word. Right up there with apoplectic.
Well, at least we're all exercising our vocabularies today. By the way, did you know that the FBI was just confirmed to be using a law intended to keep Americans safe from terrorism to snoop on a political campaign using 'the thinnest of margins' as justification?
Nothing to see here.
Go to bed.
All quiet on the western front.
Sweet dreams you little deplorable you.
As you would expect, Comey doesn't seem to remember much. He blames it all on someone else. Oh sure, he signed the FISA warrants, but he was a busy man and just trusted his subordinates. Sgt. Schutz as FBI Director.
The number of flushes needed today is directly proportional to the number of hamberders eaten yesterday.
Blogger rcocean said...
The IG report is narrowly focused and seems to rely almost entirely on what people told them in their interviews. They didn't seem to be skeptical,
I dunno.
The Democrat focus today is on this sentence, "...we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents."
Left out was this part, " We also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors..."
That seems skeptical to me.
Final pass: Trump had it coming...
Penultimate pass. The final pass is: He's orange, his mommy dresses him funny, we don't like him, and didn't vote for him. In short: he's just not our kind of guy.
Interesting, Steele has other GPS Fusion reports on Russia-Trump that he did NOT give to the FBI. However, he gave them to McCain, who gave them to Comey.
Just Johnny McCain doing his duty. And if you don't like it "You can go to Hell" per his Autobiography.
I dunno. Whatever. Maybe. Its possible.
The NYT can't write a straight news story if it involves Trump. They have to calculate first, whether it will help or hurt Trump, before shading it in the preferred anti-Trump direction.
On the merits, IG Horowitz has larded his report with tons of unimportant trivial details that distract from the central charge:
In Response to the politically damaging Wikileaks disclosure of the Hillary e-mails (June 2016), woke FBI crooks filed a bogus FISA application to get surveillance on the Trump campaign, by targeting 2 low-level unimportant dudes, Carter Page & George Pappadopoulos. The cover story was to stop Russian interference (highly exaggerated), but the objective was to stop Trump by leaking embarrassing things to put pressure on him to resign and/or drive him out of office.
They held back this "insurance policy" thinking that Hillary would win. When she lost (God Bless America) in Nov 2016, they scrambled to execute the policy, first we "fuck Flynn, then we fuck Trump." .
There are many other twists and turns, but that's the general gist.
First rule: get your lie out first. This the NYT has done.
When we asked Handling Agent 1 about the information contained in Steele's notes, Handling Agent 1 told us that he did not recall Steele mentioning these facts to him during their meeting.
This would have the same result as when a Trump associate lied to the FBI (a perjury charge and conviction) if this were a legitimate investigation instead of a politically motivated witch hunt.
I would like to remind everyone that there are USAF personnel dead - killed by a Saudi Arabian Air Force NCO - who appears to have a long track-record of radicalization and whose friends, not all of whom are yet accounted for, are said to have been videotaping his attack on his fellow students.
A Saudi Arabian armed forces member - being trained by our military on our soil - who has just committed an act of terror against our military personnel. The kind of thing that the Patriot Act and the FISA courts were instituted to find, follow, and destroy.
But no. It's got bigger fish to fry. Like spying on a political campaign. Didn't you know that was the whole point of FISA in the first place, you silly goose!
Spying on a Saudi national here for aviation related training - which was why we passed the fucking law in the first place - and who just killed USAF personnel isn't why it exists!!! I'm just a screwball crackpot! So are all of you!
We live in clownworld. $120,000 bananas. FISA court authorizations to spy on domestic political campaigns. Saudi aviation students killing our people again.
Bananas.
rcocean: "Interesting, Steele has other GPS Fusion reports on Russia-Trump that he did NOT give to the FBI. However, he gave them to McCain, who gave them to Comey.
Just Johnny McCain doing his duty. And if you don't like it "You can go to Hell" per his Autobiography."
Lindsay Graham at his press conference just spoke about this and spoke about how this early hoax dossier "unnerved" him.
I think that might partially explain why Graham came out today and called what the DOJ/FBI did a "criminal conspiracy".
I did not expect him to use that language. But he did.
So, more food for thought.
Wed in front of Graham's committee for Horowitz.
Note to lefties/LLR-lefties, it's highly likely Graham, unlike Ton's 'O Fun nads Nadler, will have Horowitz sworn in.
Because, you know, it's sort of a good practice for those testifying....
https://amgreatness.com/2019/12/09/ig-report-reveals-comey-did-brief-obama-on-trump-campaign-investigation/
Now comment on POTUS's crazy interpretation of the report.
What I hope Horowitz has done is force Durham, with Barr's strong backing, to initiate criminal procedures against Comey, Strzok, McCabe, Page, et. al.
a law intended to keep Americans safe from terrorism to snoop on a political campaign using 'the thinnest of margins' as justification?
There is an open margin since passage of the Twilight Amendment, which confirmed the Constitution as, ironically, a living document, subject to interpretation and enforcement, selective, opportunistic, at the convenience and leisure of the State, and even with a democratic consensus. Clearly a reason to tear down the electoral firewalls.
Apologies if already posted by others:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/comey-fbis-17-worst-failures-inaccuracies-and-omissions-flagged-fisa-report-solomon
Horowitz likes his federal paycheck and the occasional invitation. This was the most "damage" that he could do.
You need to understand that when the IG says they "found no evidence of political bias" in the wiretapping of Trump's campaign or the FISA warrant, what they mean is:
1) No one admitted to the IG of doing anything SOLELY because they hated Trump; AND
2) They found no document/email which says "I hate trump, we need do X to hurt him"
It does NOT mean, there was no political bias.
Just Johnny McCain doing his duty. And if you don't like it "You can go to Hell" per his Autobiography.
That nameless North Vietnamese villager who rescued McCain when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake ultimately hurt the United States much worse than all the ANV and VC generals combined.
" We also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors..."
Yeah...
I thought Horowitz was going to testify today. Apparently not?
“I would like to remind everyone that there are USAF personnel dead - killed by a Saudi Arabian Air Force NCO - who appears to have a long track-record of radicalization and whose friends, not all of whom are yet accounted for, are said to have been videotaping his attack on his fellow students.”
“The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way, shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people, who love the American people so much,” the president said in remarks on Friday.
“The King will be involved in taking care of families and loved ones. He feels very strongly,” the president. “I think they're going to help out the families very greatly.”
Trump being very careful not to anger the Saudis.
Regarding Miss Lindsey. He's up for re-election in 2020, and always turns conservative every 6th year. He's been talking tough about this and other things, but does nothing. Even though he's head of Judiciary.
The hack press are falling all over themselves with "exonerate"
Comey is now claiming complete vindication. I honestly wish he would just shut up and go away. But that's not possible.
The swamp needs to be exonerated at least twice daily.
The inspector general found that “so many basic and fundamental errors were made by three separate, hand-picked teams on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations that was briefed to the highest levels within the FBI,” that he concluded there was a failure of “not only the operational team, but also of the managers and supervisors, including senior officials, in the chain of command.”
Here's what Trump's FBI Director had to say:
"The Report concludes that the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation and related investigations of certain individuals were opened in 2016 for an authorized purpose and with adequate factual predication."
Exoneration?
re: exonerate
The difference between the Mueller and Horowitz reports is this: Mueller was unable to get evidence from all relevant sources; Horowitz apparently had cooperation from 99 percent of relevant sources.
Annoyingly, the report still has redactions. For example the FISA warrant allowed some mysterious person - not just Page - to be wiretapped for 90 days. That name is blacked out. I wonder who it was? Trump? Also, the report calls Steele's FBI handler as "Handler No. 1". Why not just say the name?
Another Takeway: When the FBI Director and DAG sign a FISA warrant it means nothing. If they don't know what's in it, or if its inaccurate, well there's no FBI Policy or DOJ policy saying they have to know or care what's in it. Comey's like "Oh, I just closed my eyes and signed, so shoot me". Ke sera sera.
“Now comment on POTUS's crazy interpretation of the report.”
Gobbledygook
However, he gave them to McCain, who gave them to Comey.
To paraphrase the Petula Clark song: Everything is waiting for you, Ukraine. Kiev seems to be the nexus, if not actual origin, or destination, of this conflict.
"Adequate justification" - Like someone, well anything can be adequate. Don't like them, nothing is adequate. Horowitz is a Democrat. He's not out to help Trump. But we knew that from the start.
Here's what Trump's FBI Director had to say: "The Report concludes that the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation and related investigations of certain individuals were opened in 2016 for an authorized purpose and with adequate factual predication."
Can anybody point to where it says that in the report?
This entire thing is starting to remind me of The Walking Dead. It's never been fully believable fiction, but it was fun drama for awhile. And it has gone on far longer than it should have, well beyond any stage where any rational person would continue to watch. Yet I still tune in from time to time, then regret it and tell myself never again will I waste 4 minutes on that putrid show.
Another example of cover-up by our government....
Gigantic, incredible, Mistakes were made.
But Honest Mistakes.
/s/Horowitz
I think Barr and Durham are the last chance; if they fail we will likely lose many things that we now take for granted.
There is no way we vote our way out of this mess.
None.
"Given the importance of the word "exonerate" in the Mueller report and its narrow meaning there, the press should refrain from using the word "exonerate" in the broad sense to mean that the inspector general merely could not find the evidence that FBI officials acted out of political bias. To be consistent with Mueller-talk"
You are so nice. Yes, they should refrain; yes, they should strive to be consistent. At some point, this nice objectivity becomes itself unreasonable--when it means assuming the possibility of good faith in people who have shown they despise it, and all the nice Althousian sensibilities that go with it.
Actually, prog are consistent: rules that can be used to harm the right should never be used to harm the left.
What I wrote in my first comment on the previous post:
"Could not find documentary or oral evidence of...
"IOW, for the slow amongst us (RE: Inga) Horowitz did not find a document that read "we are breaking the law with abandon" and nobody confessed, a la Perry Mason.
"What Horowitz wrote will not be what the MSM reports.
"Howard has a point about the MSM winning because they get to lie loudest."
That stands up really well.
@Inga
For once - and I pray it will be only once - I will state emphatically that Trump can screw himself when it comes to saying the Saudis are our friends.
Wahhabists are not friends of the United States. They have never been friends. Whatever benefit their friendship provides the damage they do is 10x worse. Believe me. I know.
I know why he had to say it. That I can forgive. They're a very very useful check against Iran which they hate with an incandescence that rivals the sun. It isn't even about Israel anymore.
Saudis are YET AGAIN in the country killing Americans. We did a whole bunch of legislating to keep that from happening again. Instead we're spying on the big-evil-orange-one.
Apoplectic
Here's what helps me get through the bullshit:
Vox Article: "What Trump Has Done to the Courts, Explained" by Ian Millheiser
Money grafs:
In less than three years as president, President Trump has done nearly as much to shape the courts as President Obama did in eight years.
Trump hasn’t simply given lots of lifetime appointments to lots of lawyers. He’s filled the bench with some of the smartest, and some of the most ideologically reliable, men and women to be found in the conservative movement. Long after Trump leaves office, these judges will shape American law — pushing it further and further to the right even if the voters soundly reject Trumpism in 2020.
Had Hillary won (which I expected to happen), all these judges woulda been leftwing ideologues like Prof. Pamela Karlan. So, one must keep perspective, even thru disappointment.
Deep breath, serenity now, serenity now.......
One major lesson from all this. The FISA court system has to be massively reformed or the whole system should be dismantled. It was created after 9/11 and has been grossly abuse for politics.
rcocean said...
The IG report is narrowly focused and seems to rely almost entirely on what people told them in their interviews. They didn't seem to be skeptical, and if they didn't find a smoking gun, Horowitz says "I could find no proof that xyz violated rule/law/FBI policy"
Which leaves me believing that Horowitz deliberately set out not to find any such information
FBI/CIA either corrupt or incompetent. Why not both? They manifestly are.
Two possibilities:
1: The people working at the FBI are incompetent buffoons who don't understand the minimal basics of how to do their jobs
In that case, every single person involved with the abuses cataloged by Horowitz needs to be fired as incompetent. For some reason, IG Horowitz doesn't recommend this
2: The people working at the FBI who carried out Crossfire Hurricane and the FISA spying on the Trump campaign were, like IG Horowitz, partisan Democrat hacks abusing their position to advance their personal political desires
I don't see a third option. Not when you have this from the IG report:
We also found the quantity of omissions and inaccuracies in the applications and the obvious errors in the Woods Procedures deeply concerning. Although we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures, we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or missing information....
@Jim at
Arm. You might be right.
"We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigations," the report states.
You know this was weaselly sentence is what the Deep State demanded be included and probably delayed the report's release.
Did not find "documentary or testimonial evidence" dating before the investigations were opened.
Is that because the politics were sussed-out inside the Obama White House?
Don't all counterintelligence investigation require the president's approval?
Appendix 1 identifies the total violations by the FBI of the so-called Woods Procedures, the process by which the bureau verifies information and assures the FISA court its evidence is true.
The Appendix identifies a total of 51 Woods procedure violations from the FISA application the FBI submitted to the court authorizing surveillance of former Trump campaign aide Carter Page starting in October 2016.
A whopping nine of those violations fell into the category called: “Supporting document shows that the factual assertion is
inaccurate.”. - John Solomon Reports
Democrats opposed the “Patriot Act” only because they were not in power at the time, and knew exactly how they would use it if they were.
Let’s see
Mueller with > 100+ subpoenas....no charges against Trump...press says not exonerated.
IG with No Subpoena Power...no recommendations of charges...press says Exonerated!!!
Now, with the IG report released, if we can just get impeachment done or resolved we can go back to being one nation of citizens that love and respect each other, regardless of political affiliation.
The nice thing about our relationship with the Saudis now is that we have fracking and our own fucking oil. A situation that the Democrats want to reverse, and put us back on bended knee to the Saudis and the Irans and the Putins of the world.
Democrats hate all of these people, but they push for policies here that the House of Saud and Putin would see as a dream come true.
I'm actually encouraged by Barr's and Durham's statements. I find that Durham commented at all to be remarkable.
Inga: "Trump being very careful not to anger the Saudis."
LOL
obama literally bowed to the Saudi king.
Repeatedly.
readering said...
Now comment on POTUS's crazy interpretation of the report.
Exactly which "crazy interpretations" are you talking about. Do give us specifics about what Trump said that's "crazy".
Original Mike: "I'm actually encouraged by Barr's and Durham's statements. I find that Durham commented at all to be remarkable."
It's unprecedented and on top of that, for Barr and Durham to publicly state their disagreement with Horowitz limited access "conclusions" (such as they are given IG constraints) I'm confident the guys with full prosecutorial power and no limitations in terms of boundaries (Horowitz was limited to DOJ/FBI personnel who were actually still in the building) will reveal much more.
“As you would expect, Comey doesn't seem to remember much. He blames it all on someone else. Oh sure, he signed the FISA warrants, but he was a busy man and just trusted his subordinates. Sgt. Schutz as FBI Director”
This is pretty much what I expected. Bureaucrats are experts on rules, and mostly colored within the lines here. That doesn’t mean that they didn’t repeatedly cross the ethical lines, but rather, with the exception of the one lowly FBI attorney who fudged the Woods flies, the bureaucrats could point to the lines, and make an argument that they had just followed the rules. And, yes, Strzok and Page had shown extreme political bias, but Page was never in a decision making position and everything that Strzok did was rubber stamped by his supervisors, very likely based on information he fed them, and his supervisors, who approved his decisions (notably CD head Bill Priestap) never showed political bias.
I was just struck though about the difference between how Trump was treated by Mueller, and is being treated by esp Judiciary Committee chair Wadler, with the expected articles of impeachment essentially claiming that Trump committed an impeachable offense when one of his motives for a specific, otherwise completely legitimate use of his Article II powers is illegitimate, then the action itself is illegitimate. Very similar to their attempts at showing Obstruction of Justice in the Mueller report. A legitimate motive (such as Comey lying to his Constitutional boss, Trump) is not sufficient to exonerate Trump, if they can make a case for an additional illegitimate motive. But in this DOJ OIG report, the opposite standard is utilized - showing that a legitimate motive was possible was sufficient to immunize DOJ and FBI officials from culpability, even when illegitimate motives appear also to be present.
Our great institutions, our super banks and massive insurance companies, giant automakers and even the Catholic Church have failed in spectacular fashions. Our military was sabotaged by the Bush Administration's stunning incompetence, arrogance and ideology. And now the same pathology can be seen in the FBI. SAD!!!
Greg: "Exactly which "crazy interpretations" are you talking about. Do give us specifics about what Trump said that's "crazy"."
Indeed. Its weird that today of all days the lefties/LLR-lefties have decided to revert to the "Trump was not spied upon by the FBI!!" gambit after the Horowitz report shows it was 4 individuals that the FBI used to gain spy access into the Trump orbit and not just the 2 we thought earlier!
But this is the game with these guys. What else are they going to do with impeachment all but dead.
And after this report, weak tea as all IG reports are? I'm guessing not even Collins and Murkowski vote for impeachment. Romney still will because he still so desperately wants to be Howard Baker.
Poor, poor Mitt. If there were an election in Utah right now Mitt would get about 4% of the vote. Ben Sasse figured out he had already gone the way of Amash so he was smart enough to bow out before it got really uncomfortable.
I’ve read about the errors and omissions detailed in the exec summary and - although I’m not a lawyer - it certainly seems to cut the legs out from the argument of good faith (read honest) FISA submissions.
To say the least.
prince salman, is trying to modernize, at variance with the king, a three hundred year old institution, the kingdom has only been 90 years, but it is the third going back to the late 18th century, with an interregnum in the mid 1840s, under mohammed ali of Egypt, now effendi shamrani, is certainly old school, like the distant relative king faisal,
Arlo nails you people:
And they was usin' up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hangin'
Around the Police Officer Station. They was takin' plaster tire tracks,
Footprints, dog-smellin' prints and they took twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored
Glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of
Each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence against us
Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner, the
Southwest corner And that's not to mention the aerial photography!
From Ace of Spades: "Fusion Co-Founders Glenn Simpson and Jonathan Winer Refused to Talk to IG; James Comey and Former FBI Attorney James Baker Also Avoided Fully Testifying"
Well gee, it almost seems as if Horowitz wasnt able to speak to alot of people who were involved.
Good thing Durham is "following up", eh?
Shorter Inga: “Squirrel!!!”
Obama would’ve called the incident an unfortunate instance of workplace violence...
They used stuff to spy on Trump and to sic a Special Counsel on him that had already been debunked in their own estimation.
https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/1204161360541687808
Long after Trump leaves office, these judges will shape American law — pushing it further and further to the right even if the voters soundly reject Trumpism in 2020.
Meh. As long as lefties find a way to get a majority on the Supreme Court, these smart conservatives can write whatever soon-to-be-overturned opinion they like.
If they have to expand the court to 15, or even 21 Justices, it will be done in the name of "restoring balance".
Power to a Progressive is never democratic and certainly not to be checked by any institutions which may disagree.
Howard comes out with his “The liar who tells the prettiest tale wins” schtick. Why he comes here, IDK, this is what we do here. If you go to a football site, they will be talking football.
There's a reason freedom is maintained by the jury box and not the packing of the federal court system.
And another thing, IG Horowitz repeatedly said that they hadn’t violated rules, but there should have been rules in place to prevent what the bureaucrats did.
Horowitz repeatedly alludes to, then skates around, the fact that what these esp FBI officials did, the spying on the opposing party’s Presidential campaign (transition and early Administration) was a really significant violation of trust between these agencies and the American public. They got away with pretending that this was a normal counterintelligence investigation, when, in reality, it was extraordinary political. The closest they got to notifying the FISC of this was a single very brief footnote that it might involve a political candidate. Horowitz seems to have been saying that this sort of investigation should have been approved at the very highest levels, with full and complete background information, probably by the DAG and FBI Director.
Original Mike at 5PM... yes, unlike Comey, he’s not the sort to run his mouth. Durham will hold some people accountable.
Lee Zeldin@RepLeeZeldin
FACT CHECK: During that Stanton-Goldman exchange, it was claimed that Republicans were able to call our own witnesses during the impeachment inquiry. That’s a total lie. We were permitted to make REQUESTS ONLY & the only 3 granted were the 3 people also on the Dem witness list.
that was fusion who shipped it scott beauchamp, who leaked it under frank foer's byline, a week before the election,
“Shorter Inga: “Squirrel!!!””
No. I was responding to Lucid Ideas @4:23 PM. He brought up the Saudi terrorist attack, not I. Pay better attention.
I'm actually encouraged by Barr's and Durham's statements.
I agree. Silent, deferential, obsequious, no more. These are men, possibly of integrity, and likely with backing. Both of which are good for Americans' prospects. We need people who will not kneel, and who will stand for American principles.
Sometimes the facts are such that a person of ordinary common sense (not that there are all that many around) can step into a jury box--look at Comey and McCabe and say:
"We can not vindicate, we can not exonerate---and oh what the heck, we're going to throw the book at you."
shamrani seems on board with the squad, that's why twitter suppressed hegseth ngo and cernovich's posting the manifesto,
No one knows what Barr and Durham knows.
The chief reason the Mueller Report was such a dud, was because he didn't indict Trump, or anyone from the Trump campaign, or any American for colluding with Russia.
It was all just a big ass waste of time.
So, my thought is that the same standard should apply to Durham. If he indicts nobody, then it's simply just the flip-side of the Mueller Report. If he does indict some folks, well, then we're cooking with gas.
But time is short. We'll be into the Iowa caucus in no time.
The Federal Swamp powers have long since used the Justice System and its owned FBI as a tool to cover up for the powerful and to railroad the innocent to ruin themselves with pleas. They specialize in using faked evidence.
Trump has Barr and Durham coming up to bat next. So what the Swamp's own guy struck out.
Big Mike said...
Just Johnny McCain doing his duty. And if you don't like it "You can go to Hell" per his Autobiography.
That nameless North Vietnamese villager who rescued McCain when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake ultimately hurt the United States much worse than all the ANV and VC generals combined.
I have said this before. Yes.
“ Well gee, it almost seems as if Horowitz wasnt able to speak to alot of people who were involved.”
The IG can only compel testimony from current employees (and that really only by threatening having them fired). No subpoena power, whatsoever. Comey, McCabe, Baker, Lynch, Yates, etc, are long gone. Always assumed that getting Page and Strzok to testify was why they were kept around.
PersonallyI think you are avoiding the real point while you circumnavigate the meaning of 'exonerate' at this stage -I don't believe the IG did or said any such thing - his cover is that this is not in his purview/responsibility to address - and I think that might well be valid if not especially upright. Better you circumnavigate the meaning of how the Liberal Media is uses all this to craft their usual fake news. Exhibit 1, the NYT sidebars this AG story w/ a headline that goes ad hominem w/ an attack on Barr as mouthpiece for POTUS. Right. ALL THE NEWS THATS FIT....etc
Important takeaway: Michael K was wrong, as usual, about what the IG report would say.
Fortunately we have Durham on the case. But relying on the career bureaucrats to clean this up is a pipe dream.
I wonder what the infamous Q has to say about the IG report, after all the many months of hinting at bombshells.
“Important takeaway: Michael K was wrong, as usual, about what the IG report would say.”
Well...duh.
Well don’t lose hope that all that space at GTMO will be wasted. Loads of Democrats and deep staters to be indicted after the Durham investigation, for sure.
"nga said...
No one knows what Barr and Durham knows”
Who said that? That’s your copyright retort, It’s good to see that you have learned SOMETHING though.
This report looks pretty devastating once you get past the spin. An abuse of the Patriot Act and spy agencies interfering in our elections. It’s all there. And the conclusion that there was no political bias is laughable since, whodathunkit, all of these errors and lies, err “factual inaccuracies” go the same way.
"And another thing, IG Horowitz repeatedly said that they hadn’t violated rules, "
How is hiding exculpatory evidence from the FISA Court not "against the rules".
Good news! the cursory and incomplete IG effort uncovered a "mere" 51 Woods violations and 9 False Statements as well as manufacturing evidence to gain the FISA warrants!
Durham no doubt finds them interesting.
So Durham's statement was to set straight a WaPo lie that he (Durham) agreed with the IG's statements.
Reading more of the report, the FBI misconduct listed is fairly damning. Unacceptable performance from America’s premier law enforcement agency.
@Bruce Hayden: ...another thing, IG Horowitz repeatedly said that they hadn’t violated rules, but there should have been rules in place to prevent what the bureaucrats did.
This is an important point. You can't fault them for breaking non-existent rules (but you can note - as Horowitz does repeatedly - that the safeguards against abuse were wholly inadequate).
The whole "authorized purpose" thing strikes me as weasel words. Of course the "purpose" was authorized! I should hope the FBI is allowed to investigate this sort of thing!
But "purpose" isn't the same as "predicate" - and if the predicate for the investigation was that Papadopoulos (a low level, peripheral flunky) was supposedly in cahoots with the Russians, then this (from Alexander Downer, the likely source, seems ... ummm.... problematic:
“There was no suggestion — [neither] from Papadopoulos nor in the record of the meeting that we sent back to Canberra — there was no suggestion that there was collusion between Donald Trump or Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians,” Downer said.
How on earth do you get from THAT to obtaining not 1 but *4* FISA warrants (based on deceit/omission) on an American citizen who actively cooperated with the US against the Russians in the past?
Yikes.
Skylark: "No one knows what Barr and Durham knows”
Actually" the entire Crossfire Hurricane team and small group at DOJ/FBI and obama and his staff know exactly what Durham and Barr know.
What no one knew in the other direction was what Muellers team had manufactured.
But we seem to know the extent of it now.
Btw, I wonder what is taking that "slam dunk" case against Flynn so long to proceed to sentencing?
It is amazing that by next year all charges against Flynn will be thrown out due to govt corruption.
Of course, when that happens there wont be any apologies by the lefties/LLR-lefties for having falsely labeled this 33 year Marine General and combat vet a traitor.
Michael K said...
One major lesson from all this. The FISA court system has to be massively reformed or the whole system should be dismantled. It was created after 9/11 and has been grossly abuse for politics.
Burn it down. To let the abusers walk and keep this Pandora's box around for more hijinks? This will not do. It's obviously not fit for purpose i.e. stopping Saudi freakazoids from murdering our people.
Inga,
Yes, duh that Michael K's judgment is bad, but it’s worth noting because casual readers might not know how consistently wrong he is. The report turns up all kind of bad behavior, but then the authors add their buckets of whitewash.
Of course, Inga was even more wrong than Michael K. Double duh.
Still waiting for Mrs. Dr. McCabe to be felt up in her nightie at 5 am.
The IG report was pretty damming for the FBI. About the only things I see the press and Dems being able to latch onto is the no bias claim. And even that is qualified in the report. It opened a lot of doors for Barr and Durham, who just said they are going to use their keys to unlock a lot more. Good news all in all. House members are smart enough to know what the IG report says sans press spin.
It might make enough of them nervous about future revelations and what would happen to any Rep who voted impeach to drop the sham and settle for censure. Or pigs could grow wings.
“There was no suggestion — [neither] from Papadopoulos nor in the record of the meeting that we sent back to Canberra — there was no suggestion that there was collusion between Donald Trump or Donald
Trump’s campaign and the Russians,” Downer said."
Cassandra: "How on earth do you get from THAT to obtaining not 1 but *4* FISA warrants (based on deceit/omission) on an American citizen who actively cooperated with the US against the Russians in the past?"
Indeed.
And remember, the Pappadopolous lies were the 3rd attempt on the part of the lefties to create a justification for their spying and frameups.
The first was the hoax dossier (which Inga STILL thinks is verified!! LOL) followed by the Carter Page lies (Clinesmith is in danger here for providing altered emails as evidence).
Pappadoplous was Reason Number 3 and we now have the direct testimony from Downer himself that it was bull.
This is a real tough one for Inga because she bit HARD into the Pappadopolous as spy justification and now that one is kablooey!
How much do you want to bet Inga will stick with that one anyway? LOL
I put the odds at 95%.
“ No. I was responding to Lucid Ideas @4:23 PM. He brought up the Saudi terrorist attack, not I. Pay better attention.”
Lucid approaches things from the right direction. From what I’ve read from you, nothing you proffer is in good faith, just repetitive terminal cynicism and leftwing asshattery.
The DOJ/FBI story is that in July 2016, the FBI received information that George Papadopoulos had told Australian big-shot Alexander Downer something along the lines that Russian Intelligence had Hillary Clinton's e-mails and wanted to publish some of them, with the cooperation of Donald Trump's campaign staff, to cause maximum damage to Clinton's election campaign.
Papadopoulos was an advisor to Trump's campaign staff, but he was an expert on petroleum issues in the Eastern Mediterranean. He had no expert knowledge or involvement with Russia.
What was the DOJ/FBI explanation of how Papadopoulos had such information and why he revealed this information to the Australian bigshot Downer? Did Russian Intelligence intend perhaps to use Papadopoulos as an intermediary between Russian Intelligence and the Trump campaign staff?
In general, what was the DOJ/FBI theory of Papadopoulos's role in this situation?
Well, DOJ/FBI had some reason to think that Papadopoulos obtained this information from a Maltese guy, Joseph Mifsud, who was a secret agent of Russian Intelligence, according to DOJ/FBI.
In this situation, DOJ/FBI decided to investigate -- not Mifsud -- Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn and Carter Page.
Why investigate those three?
* Were any of those three mentioned in the alleged conversation between Papadopoulos and Mifsud? No.
* Were any of those three mentioned in the alleged conversation between Papadopoulos and Downer? No.
Those three were investigated by DOJ/FBI because they 1) were on Trump's campaign staff and 2) had had some involvement with Russia. For example, Flynn was a foreign-policy advisor on Trump's staff and had attended a Moscow dinner celebrating an anniversary of the RT cable-television company.
The DOJ/FBI logic was:
1) Downer's report proved that Papadopoulos knew that Russian Intelligence intended to publish some of Clinton's with the collaboration of Trump's campaign staff.
2) Papadopoulos was a foreign-policy advisor on Trump's campaign staff but did not have any apparent relationship to Russia.
3) Manafort, Flynn and Page were on Trump's campaign staff and indeed did have some relationships to Russia.
4) Therefore, Russian Intelligence must be doing this operation through Manafort, Flynn or Page.
5) Page surely is a witting agent of Russian Intelligence, so it was reasonable for DOJ/FBI to search and seize all his past, present and future communications and other private information.
The Horowitz report finds that this DOJ/FBI story is reasonable.
"One major lesson from all this. The FISA court system has to be massively reformed or the whole system should be dismantled. It was created after 9/11 and has been grossly abuse for politics."
One thing that struck me at the very beginning of this was a hearing in which Comey testified before Congress. He seemed obsessed with the possibility that Congress might reign in the FBI's spying authorization.
March 4, 2017: Althouse blogs Trump's series of Tweets claiming that "Obama" was "tapping" Trump's phones and "wires" in Trump Tower.
Afterward, Trump himself offered not a word of specification for his charges.
Now, more than a year and a half later, and still no specification from Trump, where do those claims stand? The Trump fanatics who now dominate Althouse's comments pages will, I expect, say that subsequent investigations and reports support (somehow) Trump's claims. And in doing so, they will necessarily elide the matter of what exactly "Obama" did (while I remember that Trump personalized the claim as to Obama, saying that Obama was a "bad" or "sick" guy to have done it), and what exactly was the surveillance at issue.
Anyone who cares to take it on; tell us in 25 words or less, how President Obama tapped Trump's phones.
There were 365 comments under that Althouse post. Including one form me stating in part:
...I'm not so sure anybody has mentioned it yet; if we make the (plausible, I submit) presumption that there was some form of FBI-requested/FISA-approved electronic surveillance within Trump Tower, and Trump has based his morning Tweets on that, has Donald J. Trump broken any laws by revealing the existence of same? Has Trump compromised information that was given to him in a classified briefing or other classified communication?"
Well, it was all later declassified, serving various parties' interests. So what was the "Obama" involvement? Be specific. And which of Trump's phones was "tapped"? Again, be specific.
stevew said...
Now, with the IG report released, if we can just get impeachment done or resolved we can go back to being one nation of citizens that love and respect each other, regardless of political affiliation.
Stevew, take off your clothes.
...
Greg the class traitor said...
readering said...
Now comment on POTUS's crazy interpretation of the report.
Exactly which "crazy interpretations" are you talking about. Do give us specifics about what Trump said that's "crazy".
Nothing else to say. The cowardly trash, readering, got in his little sneak punch of using POTUS and crazy together in a sentence. He can't improve on that, so he won't, and he needn't.
As I have said for two and a half years, this was a conspiracy to deprive US citizens their God-given and Constitutionally recognized rights. The FBI and DOJ conspired against private citizens. They acted just like Democratics acted in 1950s Mississippi. And Alabama. They did everything they could to overcome the Fourth Amendment. They broke civil rights laws.
That is the way an aggressive prosecutor can wrap up this whole dirty gang.
Those laws have teeth, thanks to various Civil Rights Acts that Republicans passed with limited Democratics' support.
Nadler is a damn dandy! https://chumley.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/21/Screen-Shot-2019-05-20-at-11.30.05-PM.png
Racist fopdoodles love violating the civil rights of Republicans.
That's the fucking takeaway, Chuck.
The Dems seem to have a decent lawyer:
"First, that President Trump directed a scheme to pressure Ukraine into opening two investigations that would benefit his 2020 reelection campaign, and not US national interests.
Second, President Trump used his official office and the official tools of US foreign policy, the withholding of an Oval Office meeting, and $391 million in security assistance, to pressure Ukraine into meeting his demands.
Third, everyone was in the loop. His chief of staff, the secretary of state, and vice president.
And fourth, despite the public discovery of this scheme which prompted the president to release the aid, he has not given up. He and his agents continue to solicit Ukrainian interference in our election, causing an imminent threat to our elections and our national security."
By the way; with Barr and Durham both obliquely criticizing the IG report, FBI Director Chris Wray was asked straight up whether he thought that the FBI had unfairly targeted the Trump campaign, Wray said, "I do not."
Skylark said...
Howard comes out with his “The liar who tells the prettiest tale wins” schtick. Why he comes here, IDK, this is what we do here.
Same with you, Skylark, you answer your own question. Why does he come here? To tell the prettiest lies. He's not needed at DU or wherever because they hardly need to be sold these lies.
But in fairness, Trump did tweet that Obama tapped his phones. I think that alone is grounds for impeachment.
Good times.
Chris Stirewalt - 'James Comey is giving J Edgar Hoover a run for his money'.
Yes, Wray is lying.
He's a dirty cop just like his predecessors.
He continues to conspire to deprive US citizens' civil rights.
LOLOLOLOLOL
LLR-leftist Chuck acting like its January 2017 all over again!!
Which I understand, really. Those were such heady days for leftists like LLR Chuck! Trump was a Russian agent and he was going to resign at ANY MINUTE!! LLR-lefty Chucks Knight in Shining Armor, Rachel Maddow, was bravely entering the fray each day to advance the lefty/LLR-lefty Cause!!
I am getting goose bumps just thinking about LLR Chuck's "brilliant" Maddow!
No LLR-lefty Chuck. I am afraid we are well past your Jan 2017 lefty lies.
Tsk tsk.
This is not going to end well for Chuckie. The inevitable Chuckie racist and misogynistic lashing out is but moments away.
Brace yourselves Althousians....
Sloppy, lazy post.
What Mueller said was that the question whether Trump had obstructed justice was open, and reported at great length the evidence, consisting of 10 separate instances, supporting the view that he had done so. Clearly that is not exoneration, in the sense of exculpation, and Mueller said as much. It was Barr, Trump's own handpicked man, who "exonerated" him, despite evidence which many prosecutors believe created a clear factual question as to his guilt.
The Inspector General's report--which you do not bother to quote--says that the FBI's commencement of the investigation was justified, and that there is no evidence, documentary or testimonial, that the decision to commence the investigation was influenced by political bias. Finding no evidence is different from what Mueller did--he found substantial evidence of obstruction. The report also says that the people whom the right has been smearing had nothing to do with that decision. These findings are in fact an exoneration in the true sense of the term--though clearly the report did not exonerate the FBI with respect to a number of other issues.
This post continues a pattern of obtuseness--and false equivalences--around issues of Trump's misbehavior that increasingly reads as bias, rather than cruel neutrality.
"FBI Director Chris Wray was asked straight up whether he thought that the FBI had unfairly targeted the Trump campaign, Wray said, "I do not."
--
Well that settles it. This seems to be the level of bias evaluation Horowitz employed.
Original Mike: "Chris Stirewalt - 'James Comey is giving J Edgar Hoover a run for his money'."
Interesting that NeverTrumper Stirewalt said as much. Lindsay Graham did the same (Comey as Hoover) as well as labeling what happened to Trump a literal "criminal conspiracy".
Something tells me some of these lads have been given a bit of a heads up on what Barr and Durham have already found.
"The Inspector General's report--which you do not bother to quote--says that the FBI's commencement of the investigation was justified,"
Could you quote the report on this point, please?
US Attorney Durham objects to IG findings on Russia probe origins in stunning statement
DOJ/FBI says that in July 2016 it received information that George Papadopoulos, a foreign-policy advisor on Trump's campaign staff, had told Australian big-shot Alexander Downer something along the lines that Russian Intelligence intended to publish some of Hillary Clinton's e-mails, with the cooperation of Trump's campaign staff.
Based on that information, DOJ/FBI examined Trump's campaign staff and found that three staff members had some involvement with Russia -- Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn and Carter Page. So, at least one -- or some combination -- of those three could be reasonably suspected of being an accomplice in this Russian Intelligence plot.
Therefore, DOJ/FBI initiated investigations of those three staff members. (During that point, DOJ/FBI paid little attention to Papadopoulos.)
So, the story told in the IG report is that the investigation of those three staff members began only because of Downer's report, which DOJ/FBI received in July 2016.
In fact, though, DOJ/FBI had been investigating Manafort and Flynn long before July 2016. In fact, the Downer report was just a pretext to provide some official status to two investigations that had been conducted unofficially for a long time before July 2016.
After the Downer report provided a pretext to officially investigate Manafort and Flynn, the initial DOJ/FBI intention perhaps was to frame one or both of them as the witting secret agent(s) of Russian Intelligence collaborating in the publication of Clinton's e-mails.
For some unknown reason, however, DOJ/FBI eventually framed Page (not Manafort or Flynn) as the witting secret agent who was collaborating with Russian Intelligence.
Unfortunately, Horowitz failed to tell the true story.
Interesting the "Insurance Policy" Text was not in the IG Report at all...
HOCK: IG Report on Spygate Ignores Peter Strzok’s ‘Insurance Policy’ Text Message PJ Media
This seems to be the Comey Clinton Email standard, that nobody admitted they were deliberately doing a Coup, showing intent, and therefore it's OK.
And the filled out all the proper forms.
And mistakes happen.
Positives are:
1. Durham's statement
2. Barr's statement
3. Listing out in the report of 51 violations and 9 false statements.
My 2 cents...
Something needs to be done to show the US has one system of justice that is applied evenly to you, no matter your political leanings. Right now it appears if you are to the Right, and especially a Trump supporter, you will not be treated fairly. The US system is built on a lot of trust in our institutions, and when that gets abused, you are in very dangerous territory culturally. What happened to the tea party, and now Trump, is frightening.
Everyone. I have an announcement. I told my girlfriend (who's Brazilian) about the releasee of the report and provided her a synopsis as a link through - of all places - the Washington Post.
After reading it these were her words,
"It sounds like something they would do in Brazil"
The United States of America is officially Brazil. We've went there. I love Brazil (and Brazilian women) but I don't want the US political system to look like Brazil's.
My girlfriend came up here to get away from that 7 years ago. Welcome home baby!
@Nichevo
Here, please allow me to add /sarc at the end of my previous post.
Hillary Clinton is queen of the Potemkin Village of DC.
Plouffe interview where she accused anyone running a 3rd party effort is a "RUSSIAN ASSET"
IS a threat to anyone who dare run as a 3rd party. A threat.
Media blitz
Book tour
Fake quotes from fake people who claim to say they have a new found love for her after her stint on Howard Stern. Now some fake polls are showing up with her on them.
None of this is by accident.
stevew said...
@Nichevo
Here, please allow me to add /sarc at the end of my previous post.
Fair.
Blogger BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
Hillary Clinton is queen of the Potemkin Village of DC.
You mean we get to beat her twice? I can't wait.
This report is devastating. Whether you want to attribute it to evil intentions, or purely to incompetence/inability to understand the rules, how can the FBI/government possibly be trusted with this type of thing in the future?
I am confused on what the latest Trump Storyline is:
Trump a Russian asset?
Trump is anti Semitic?
Trump is an Israeli asset?
Trump is an asset of Saudi Arabia?
If anyone is on the successor of Journalist, I would appreciate an update!
LLR-lefty Chuck and Stephen and Inga et al have a problem today.
Barr's mere presence forced Horowitz to include much more information than he likely wanted to.
Worse, this report is being issued not with deep stater/Mueller&Comey buddy Rosenstein running the show and running interference for his buds.
Nope. New sheriff in town and given the unprecedented statements offered up today by both Barr and Durham, well, we can look forward to so many more "interesting" revelations.....
"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'" The Democrats have gone through the looking glass.
BTW... putting the FBI in charge of the investigation of the Pensacola terror attack doesn’t instill confidence in this American, but can one do but hope for the best.
Ray - SoCal: "I am confused on what the latest Trump Storyline is:"
I've no doubt the lefties/LLR-lefties are poll-testing that question as we speak and I'm sure they'll leave open the option to change their storylines (AGAIN!) as each falls by the wayside on the way to Trump reelection in 2020.
I think the word you're groping for is zonerate. It's usually found in close proximity to nothingberder.
Iman: "BTW... putting the FBI in charge of the investigation of the Pensacola terror attack doesn’t instill confidence in this American, but can one do but hope for the best."
Indeed. Since the vast majority of the FBI continues to work on framing the President and protecting the democrats, you have to wonder who is left to do actual FBI-type work.
"'Specifically, Comey and Baker refused to get recertified for a classification clearance, thus blocking the IG’s efforts to ‘refresh their recollection’ with classified documents.” Making it easier to say “I don’t recall” in response to every hard question."
Amazing that anybody is willing to make excuses for these guys.
Indeed:
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrianHegseth/status/1204080135038738433
Ray - SoCal said...
I am confused on what the latest Trump Storyline is:
Trump a Russian asset?
Trump is anti Semitic?
Trump is an Israeli asset?
Trump is an asset of Saudi Arabia?
--
Aaaannnnnd...Trump is the troubling result of the unaddressed sins of slavery.
(It ain't easy being Green)
Apologies if someone else has posted this, but Sundance has honed in on the disagreement between timid Horowitz and seasoned Durham.
It's the flimsy basis for opening up Crossfire Hurricane, which any sane person can see was a pretext to allow the FISA fishing expedition against the Trump campaign.
the objective was to stop Trump by leaking embarrassing things to put pressure on him to resign and/or drive him out of office.
I may be naive, but I still think they mostly wanted enough dirt on Trump that they could guarantee their jobs and independence if he won, a la J Edgar Hoover's files on JFK, LBJ, and others in DC. That's what the "insurance policy" means to me. --Not an exoneration, however.
“New sheriff in town and given the unprecedented statements offered up today by both Barr and Durham, well, we can look forward to so many more "interesting" revelations.....”
No one knows what Barr and Durham knows...
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'" The Democrats have gone through the looking glass.
Precisely.
Thank you. It is a well chosen quote.
"No one knows what Barr and Durham knows..."
Not accurate. We know Barr and Durham know who Joseph Misfud was working for. Hint: it wasn't the Russians.
Que agallas
https://mobile.twitter.com/_Drew_McCoy_/status/1204182098812264448
"This report is devastating. Whether you want to attribute it to evil intentions, or purely to incompetence/inability to understand the rules, how can the FBI/government possibly be trusted with this type of thing in the future?"
That's the bottom line isn't it?
Door #1: The FBI is incompetent.
Door #2: The FBI is corrupt.
Barr/Durham: I'll take door #2 Chuck.
putting the FBI in charge of the investigation of the Pensacola terror attack doesn’t instill confidence
FBI is a diverse group, nearly 40,000 employees and agents. It is a mistake to color the reputations of the majority for the actions of a minority.
FBI is a diverse group, nearly 40,000 employees and agents. It is a mistake to color the reputations of the majority for the actions of a minority.<
My daughter is an FBI agent but I don't trust them with anything even distantly related to Trump. Wray, with his statements today, has lost all credibility.
According to Australian big-shot Alexander Downer, George Papadopoulos, a member of Donald Trump's campaign staff, had learned that Russian Intelligence intended to publish some of Hillary Clinton's e-mails, with the collaboration of someone of Trump's campaign staff.
Downer did not report that Papadopoulos himself would collaborate with Russian Intelligence. Rather, Downer reported only that Papadopoulos knew something about this plot.
So, who on Trump's campaign -- other than Papadopoulos -- might be the witting secret agent(s) of Russian Intelligence?
DOJ/FBI soon identified three likely culprits -- Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn and Carter Page. Those three all had relationships with Russia. (Papadopoulos was an expert on petroleum issues in the eastern Mediterranean.)
DOJ/FBI already had been investigating Manafort and Flynn long before it received Downer's report in July 2016. Therefore, DOJ/FBI already had developed some information that could be used to frame Manafort and/or Flynn.
One problem in framing Manafort or Flynn, however, was that neither of them traveled much to Russia.
In contrast, Page still did travel to Russia. Perhaps that was a major reason why DOJ/FBI decided to frame Page instead of framing Manafort and/or Flynn.
In order to carry through with the framing of Page, DOJ/FBI needed some extra evidence -- such as the evidence provided subsequently by Christopher Steele's Dossier. Fortunately for DOJ/FBI, the Dossier soon provided the extra evidence necessary to justify a FISA warrant.
Inga: "No one knows what Barr and Durham knows”
Reposted (for the slow ones like Inga) from 5:37PM
Drago: "Actually" the entire Crossfire Hurricane team and small group at DOJ/FBI and obama and his staff know exactly what Durham and Barr know.
What no one knew in the other direction was what Muellers team had manufactured.
But we seem to know the extent of it now."
Hope that helps.
""No one knows what Barr and Durham knows..."
Surprising you want to keep reminding people of the Mueller flop.
“This is an important point. You can't fault them for breaking non-existent rules (but you can note - as Horowitz does repeatedly - that the safeguards against abuse were wholly inadequate).”
Given a lack of guidance, one would hope that ethics, critical thinking and a sense of common decency would temper the zealotry of our nation’s premier law enforcement agency.
What the heck, I’ll feed the troll
So what was the "Obama" involvement? Be specific. And which of Trump's phones was "tapped"? Again, be specific.
14 words:
“Obama” is the “Obama administration”.
And all of them were tapped. All the phones.
That’s what a FISA warrant gets you. 2-hop authorization for every communication (phone, email, etc).
You guys have much more stamina that I do with this sort of thing.
I don't always come here just to make jokes, but it seems fairly evident that all of this action is only helping Trump (despite Paul Mirengoff's skepticism on this point).
Normal Americans, sensibly, don't pay all that much attention to politics, even when it's tarted up to be all about The Constitution and Who We Are As Americans. People here (outside of the bubble) have a cultural sense of justice and fairness and this rubs them the wrong way. They know perfectly well they could not get away with the kind of crap that the government class does, and it pisses them off.
I retired 2-1/2 years ago and I have more money (on paper) in my modest IRA than in 2017, when I began to draw on it. (That cannot reasonably be credited to Trump, except in the negative sense that to some extent he took the boot of the Government off the throat of the economy, but that's not how most people will see it.) Unemployment is at a 40-year low and we've not invaded any foreign countries recently (although I suspect that there would be some popular support for cleaning up the border areas of Mexico). And we are now a net petroleum exporter for the first time since before I graduated from high school, which was before the microprocessor was invented or men had landed on the Moon.
I think that Trump's largest contribution so far, aside from making a good start on reforming the makeup of the Federal court system, has been moving the "Overton Window" regarding which liberal and big government shibboleths can be questioned in public.
Wake me up when Trump wins in 2020 or when he hangs himself, whichever happens first.
OM (to Inga): "Surprising you want to keep reminding people of the Mueller flop."
Not really. She's pretty dense. So much so that she actually linked to Horowitz's comments that basically laid out how limited he was and how he could not draw conclusions and Inga actually thought that settled the issue!
LOL
Phidippus: "I don't always come here just to make jokes, but it seems fairly evident that all of this action is only helping Trump (despite Paul Mirengoff's skepticism on this point)."
Mirengoff is a joke.
As for helping Trump, no question.
The polls in MI/PA/WI show Trump smashing Biden by 5 to 10% and the Trump campaign hasn't even started in earnest!!
LLR-leftist Chuck and Schiff/Nadler hardest hit.
As to the behavior of the FBI. Is this the new rule? Can the FBI now get a tip from a FFG and start spying on the Biden campaign?
Having two sets of rules for opposing political parties is how civil wars start.
"That cannot reasonably be credited to Trump, except in the negative sense that to some extent he took the boot of the Government off the throat of the economy, but that's not how most people will see it."
If he promised and delivered on that boot removal, interpretation need not be so tortured.
"[The good economy] cannot reasonably be credited to Trump, except in the negative sense that to some extent he took the boot of the Government off the throat of the economy, "
But that's all it takes.
The other big story today is the WaPo scoop on the systematic lying by the US government on Afghanistan.
The "permanent state" in this country is profoundly corrupt.
I just saw Mara Liasson predict that the Dems will lose seats in both the Senate and the House because of impeachment.
Who would have thought that those of us who want to preserve a republican form of government would find ourselves in the position of defending Donald Trump.
Trump is truly blessed in the utter stupidity and mendacity of his enemies.
Phidippus: "And we are now a net petroleum exporter for the first time since before I graduated from high school, which was before the microprocessor was invented or men had landed on the Moon."
This is a critical point to bring out when some moron like Inga claims Trump is beholden to the Saudi's.
Trump is using the Saudi's (in alliance with Israel (which the dems & LLR's despise) and Egypt) to squeeze the snot out of obama's beloved Iran.
When you couple that with Trump's clear crushing of China economically and showing up the idiot Europeans for the sad sacks they are (cutting off the NAFTA loophole), the US has not been in such an advantageous global position for 60 to 70 years.
And that's why the polls are showing what they are showing. If Trump keeps 35% of the hispanic vote and increases republican share of the black vote to 15%, its O-VER.
And that my friends is why we see the LLR-lefty Chuck's and Inga's and dems spinning so furiously. They've already lost.
"She's pretty dense. So much so that she actually linked to Horowitz's comments that basically laid out how limited he was and how he could not draw conclusions and Inga actually thought that settled the issue!"
Yeah, I saw that. Comedy gold.
Matthew Sablan, in the very first comment, noted the same thing I did in the previous thread.
In the IG report that detailed how the Clinton e-mail investigation was handled, Horowitz detailed the errors in investigative procedure that had occurred, and in every single instance the errors were favorable to Shelob- every single one of dozens. However, Horowitz was forced to throw up his hands and say that he couldn't prove political bias was at work.
In this present IG report, every single error in investigative procedure- almost 20 detailed- were unfavorable to people being investigated. Now here is the kicker- the teams in Mid Year Exam and Crossfire Hurricane were essentially the same people, and were the same people at the top. And Horowitz, again, throws up his hands and says he can't prove bias was at work. However, the same group of people behaving in opposite ways in two different investigations is the proof that political bias was at the heart of all of it.
At this point, we are being told to not believe our lying eyes- it really is that bad.
BTW, did anyone catch how Rep Doug Collins got dem counsel Goldman to admit that a quid pro quo with Ukraine was official policy under obambi?
Collins: “Did [Biden] ask for something, request something, and hold something of value?”
Goldman: “He did. George Kent testified that that was – ” Collins cuts off Goldman (per what dem counsel had been doing earlier)
Collins: “I think I’ll do what you did. I’m not asking about George Kent. I’m asking about this.”
Goldman (interrupting): “It’s important context.”
Collins: “It’s not! Answer this question. Did he or did he not? Either Joe Biden’s a liar, telling a story to make people impressed, or he actually did this. Which is it?
Goldman (very uncomfortably and angry): "He did it pursuant to U.S. official policy.”
Collins: “So, he did it. Withholding of actual dollars…So Joe Biden is the only one who’s done a quid pro quo. He’s actually used taxpayer dollars to threaten a foreign government. And yet we’re sitting here pretending that it’s not happening. We’re sitting here pretending that a president of the United States would not be concerned…Joe Biden’s a terrible candidate. He can destroy himself on the campaign trail, but he can’t get by this.”
Collins (continues by holding up a copy of Biden transcript): "And it doesn’t matter who brings it up. It doesn’t matter who does it, because this is what happens. And you can whitewash it all you want, he’s either a liar or he did it. I want to continue on.”
Biden’s action was a quid pro quo and it was U.S. official policy!!
Nice.
LOL
" Horowitz apparently had cooperation from 99 percent of relevant sources."
And 99% could not explain how the "errors" happened.
"I don't know what happened." is not cooperation from people who where there and did the things. It's called lying and cover up.
"unsatisfactory explanations for the errors"
It's like a drunk driver telling the cops "I don't why my car went across the center-line."
"OK sir, you are clearly exonerated. Here's your keys. Be careful driving home."
Tucker Carlson - "The FBI lied in order to hide [Cater Page's] innocence."
That about sums up the 17 "errors and omissions".
What I'd really like to see are insider polls out of Minnesota and New Mexico. Florida is already rapidly moving away from the dems.
There wouldn't be enough gin in the world to drown LLR-lefty Chuck's sorrows!
n.n said...
putting the FBI in charge of the investigation of the Pensacola terror attack doesn’t instill confidence
FBI is a diverse group, nearly 40,000 employees and agents. It is a mistake to color the reputations of the majority for the actions of a minority.
Until that majority of the FBI start working to clear out the evil scum, the rightly get tainted with everything the evil scum have done.
Wray making excuses for Crossfire Hurricane and the IG whitewash means the FBI is still corrupt, from the top down.
someone said..." Horowitz apparently had cooperation from 99 percent of relevant sources."
Yeah, right...
"'Specifically, Comey and Baker refused to get recertified for a classification clearance, thus blocking the IG’s efforts to ‘refresh their recollection’ with classified documents.” Making it easier to say “I don’t recall” in response to every hard question."
PhysicistDave said...
Who would have thought that those of us who want to preserve a republican form of government would find ourselves in the position of defending Donald Trump.
Trump is truly blessed in the utter stupidity and mendacity of his enemies.
Yeah, after this, I'm just done with any "Republican" who is not supporting Trump.
The FBI under Barak Obama was fundamentally corrupt. Anyone who's willing to see the Democrats take back power in 2021 is fundamentally unserious about protecting our constitutional representative democracy.
I don't give a shit how Trump threatens your rice bowl, or your self esteem, or your class interests. If you claim to be a Republican, or a conservative, but aren't full on board with Trump winning in 2020, you're a liar
You know what's very telling? People like Comey and others are happy and proud that the IG report says they were highly incompetent in their important work for the nation.
Why would anyone be happy about that characterization of them?
Because the truth is even worse. I can't think of any other reason. A truely unbiased and innocent professional would be outraged at this report.
Barr shouldn't be challenging the conclusions of the IG Report, he should be embracing them.
"Everything the Clinton campaign/FBI/CIA did was completely legal, indeed, fulfilling their obligation to the Constitution. We at the DOJ and FBI intend to investigate certain Democrat candidates who have had contacts with China, Russia, The Ukraine and other foreign countries. Even as I speak, FISA warrants are being obtained on Sanders, Warren and Biden campaign operatives on the basis of dossiers compiled from foreign intelligence sources. Americans should rest easy knowing we will not shirk our duty to develop an insurance policy against the election of these likely assets of foreign governments."
From CTH link: "Nothing before that July 26, 2016, contact by Australian High Commissioner Alexander Downer relaying a conversation with Downer on May 10th, 2016, is cited by the FBI as having anything to do with opening Crossfire Hurricane (started on July 31st)."
Makes me wonder why Downer waited 2.5 months to report to the FBI what Papadope told him.
Biden’s action was a quid pro quo and it was U.S. official policy!!
The Interagency is never wrong or unlawful!
The IG Report Is a Huge Blow to the FBI's Credibility. Why Is It Being Treated Like Vindication?
Seems fairly clear and succinct, someone should give Comey and several others a clue:
https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/1204193531172139008
’However, the same group of people behaving in opposite ways in two different investigations is the proof that political bias was at the heart of all of it.’
And the ‘normals’ see this. Similar to the old farmer confronting Biden, we have an innate sense of fairness that overrides the legalistic parsing from our so-called betters and bureaucrats.
So I've been Googling all day to learn if and when Horowitz is going to testify to Congress. Different search terms, advanced Google search limiting dates, etc and I've come up empty.
Just tried DuckDuckGo. Answer was in the first item.
Fuckers.
The whitewash of Hillary continues apace.
Imagine if Trump set up and used a Private Server to run the office of the Presidency?
“ Not accurate. We know Barr and Durham know who Joseph Misfud was working for. Hint: it wasn't the Russians.”
The tacit understanding that Mifsud was a Russian asset ran all the way through Crossfire Hurricane, the 4 FISA warrants, and the Mueller investigation. By the time Mueller’s rabidly partisan prosecutors were writing up his report this was accepted as gospel truth. But that should be extremely embarrassing to the intelligence committee, because he taught for the Link campus, where FBI and CIA agents have routinely been taught spy craft. That would mean that the Russians would have known the identities of numerous FBI and CIA agents, and the two agencies were so stupid that they hadn’t properly vetted the Link faculty.
What Barr and Durham know, that Horowitz couldn’t officially know, is who Mifsud was working for, when he supposedly told George Papadopoulos that the Russians had Crooked Hillary’s missing emails (because, of course, the same FBI agents running the Crossfire Hurricane investigation against trump, also ran the Midyear Exam investigation into her illegal use of her private email server to conduct official business, and effectively allowed her to delete over 30k emails - the ones that Mifsud supposedly told Papadopoulos that the Russians had). Of course, if the FBI had done their job with Clinton and her emails, there wouldn’t have been >30k missing emails. In any case, someone told the FBI that Mifsud had told Papadopoulos that the Russians had the missing emails, and that he (Mifsud) was working for them. That, along with his (Papadopoulos) telling Downer, or his female assistant, that he had been told that the Russians had the emails, were essentially the legal predicate for opening the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. Horowitz doesn’t know anything different from that (officially) because that is all that the FBI knew (officially). What Barr and Durham know that Horowitz doesn’t know (formally) is who Mifsud was actually working for. Because if he was working for western intelligence (which is almost assuredly the case), the entire Russian collusion narrative collapses into what very much looks like a CIA operation, run primarily through our Five Eyes allies.
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