"... at least according to a new study from researchers at the University of Swansea in the UK. The study, the largest test of its kind ever conducted, concluded that, on average, people are far more interested in kindness, beauty, and financial security in their potential mates.... The students were asked to gauge which of eight attributes they prioritized in a potential partner: kindness, humor, chastity, religiosity, physical attractiveness, financial prospects, a desire for children, and creativity.... For 'Eastern' and 'Western' participants alike, creativity was among the three least desirable traits. (The other two were chastity and religiosity.) Across the board, kindness was by far the most commonly picked option of the bunch. Men more highly favored physical attractiveness, while woman prized financial security...."
From
Artnet News, which prompts me to click to the "related" article
"New Study Reveals Artists Share Common Traits With Psychopaths/There may be a reason some artists are especially bold."
“Emotional disinhibition, in the form of psychopathic boldness, is actually integral to some creative personalities and functionally related to the creative process,” according to the study. “A creative field might not just shape a person into a more arrogant or dishonest personality, it might be actively selecting them, not for the sake of having disagreeable traits, but because such traits meaningfully co-vary with creativity itself.”
Got that? Now, please, go meaningfully co-vary with somebody before it's too late.
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67 comments:
I am a person, not a statistic to be covaried.
"Creativity" often means some sort of artistic or musical job, which doesn't offer much job security, so women looking for a partner would be smart to shy away from such people. Plus, creativity often goes hand-in-hand with crazy. The starving artist might be great in the sack, but you don't want her to be the mother of your children.
I can already see the academic paper submitted to The Chronicles of Higher Education.
"To a greater understanding of psychopathic boldness: Co-Varying with your Creative Self.
Don't stick your dick in the crazy (artist).
The study, the largest test of its kind ever conducted, concluded that, on average, people are far more interested in kindness, beauty, and financial security in their potential mates....
The study concluded men like attractive women and women like rich men, but that's news to exactly no one.
Men more highly favored physical attractiveness, while woman prized financial security
Wait..you mean men and women are different!!
I've been lied to!
Went recently to a Wynonna interview and performance in an intimate setting at the CMHOF. Her husband Cactus also attended and participated. She’s a massive talent but I could not imagine being in a relationship with someone like that.
"Creative" and "artistic" aren't synonyms. Very stodgy engineers can be more creative than very flamboyant artists.
I read the same article in Cosmo last spring. It was sandwiched between two other articles: "Have a better bikini body by Summer", and "Have your Cake, and lose 10 lbs!".
“Emotional disinhibition, in the form of psychopathic boldness, is actually integral to some creative personalities and functionally related to the creative process,” according to the study. “
Now correlate politicians and psychopaths.
"'Men more highly favored physical attractiveness, while woman prized financial security'
"Wait..you mean men and women are different!!"
Actually, they're complementary: physical attractiveness in women signals a healthy mate who will produce healthy offspring for the male; a mate who can provide financial security ensures the child they produce will be adequately protected, provided for, and nurtured to maturity.
It's all about procreation!
Creativity carries with it narcissism, self-absorption, and loser-hood (I speak, sadly, as a so-called creative person). The human race knows all this at the deepest levels and thus the results here.
You can't find out what people want in a romantic partner by asking them. You can only find out by watching them.
Robert Cook said...physical attractiveness in women signals a healthy mate who will produce healthy offspring for the male; a mate who can provide financial security ensures the child they produce will be adequately protected, provided for, and nurtured to maturity.
That's what I keep telling my wife when she complains about TV shows that have beautiful women paired with average (or worse) looking men. The male equivalent of beautiful woman is not handsome man, it's rich man. And a woman with money or career status is not as desirable as an attractive woman because attractiveness is a core trait, whereas money and power are just a nice bonus. With men, it's the opposite calculation.
This refers to marriage relationships. But on Orgy Island creative 12 year old women were in great demand by great men and women and Royals. After they reached 14 the fun seemed so much less that each had to be traded in for a newer model.
It begins with a low covariance, progresses with a strong correlation, and concludes with the construct of a congruence, perhaps two, each a modulo of their integers.
Self proclaimed “creativity” worn proudly as a badge of identity is code for economic loser or just plain cray-cray in most people's everyday experience.
“Emotional disinhibition, in the form of psychopathic boldness, is actually integral to some creative personalities and functionally related to the creative process,” according to the study. “A creative field might not just shape a person into a more arrogant or dishonest personality, it might be actively selecting them, not for the sake of having disagreeable traits, but because such traits meaningfully co-vary with creativity itself.”
The French comedy “I Married an Actress” covers this pretty well.
I'm impressed that AA uses the terms creativity in the same phrase as male and female partners. Amazing - AA are you sure that your elite and academic friends will not chastise you for going off the PC reservation
Emotional disinhibition, in the form of psychopathic boldness
Well, duh!
You want to explain how, without a sizable dollop of emotional disinhibition, one has the cojones to get in front of a Carnegie Hall audience and play the Beethoven Violin Concerto?
This sort of "radical public exposure" is just terrifying to normal human beings, who balk even at speaking in public before a group of friends & family.
"Very stodgy engineers can be more creative than very flamboyant artists.”
Yep. I remember back before the internet when computer science majors were dissed on account of their supposed lack of creativity, and those very people just went to work and reshaped our entire world.
I'm for boring, fidelity, and productivity.
"one has the cojones to get in front of a Carnegie Hall audience and play the Beethoven Violin Concerto?”
If you have the skills, no, it’s justified confidence. The book “The Power of Habit” is a pretty good explanation of how one gets the skills. Though it may take the devotion of one’s life.
Duh!? This is why art is considered idolatry... the creative has a God complex and worships herself.
The best engineers are artists. IMO, the greatest living performance artist is Elon Musk.
Anecdote: Mrs. Pianoman has told me on multiple occasions that my mad piano skilz were part of what she found attractive in me. And we're celebrating our 35th anniversary next year.
"The plural of anecdote is not data", yeah. But still ...
YMMV
The only difference between autistic, and artistic is you.
Hands off my co-varies!
Althouse once famously told us artists are inherently right wing, and now we learn they're bold psychopaths. Ergo, right wingers are psychopaths.
It does seem that insanity, or something approaching it, is highly correlated with artistic success. Maybe it's the different thinking or tenuous grip on normality that allows them to be creative. I'm happy to enjoy their works and am glad to not be in a relationship with them.
"one has the cojones to get in front of a Carnegie Hall audience and play the Beethoven Violin Concerto?”
Doesn't take cojones, just a bit of experience. I used to get nervous speaking in public. Then I had to teach some classes when I was 20. After doing that a few times, my fears evaporated and I grew to enjoy teaching. Seeing the look on people's faces when you lead them to understand something they didn't understand before is very rewarding. I'm sure Ann could tell you the same thing.
For every person who hates public speaking, it seems there are ten who love it, although nine of the ten do it poorly. And all nine of them used to drone on endlessly at the annual mandatory Band Boosters meetings I had to go to when my children were in Marching Band in high school.
I see that the survey people did not ask about intelligence. But for some men, marrying a "dumb bunny" no matter how good looking is a non starter. And with the "sorting" that goes along in the assortative mating process in American colleges, it helps a lot if the two potential partners have roughly equal intelligence.
How silly. You give people a list of characteristics and ask them to rank them. Of course, "Creativity" is at the bottom of the list. How does "thinking outside the box" make for a good wife or husband? You'd have to creative to think of the reasons. It's still a positive but less a positive than looks, money, kindness, being fun and positive, etc. And what qualities you want will be ranked differently by everyone. My wife is emotionally stable, smart, and fun to be around. And that's pretty much what I want in a wife. I don't want a good-looking bitch, or a wealthy neurotic drama queen. Others think differently, Mileage may vary.
There is a sports program host called Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports who once said "kindness" was the most important attribute in a wife BECAUSE after she has children the husband becomes the second most important part of her life and if she is not kind you are toast.
I don't want a good-looking bitch, or a wealthy neurotic drama queen
Then why are you here, Cupcake?
Are we your bit of strange?
"Althouse once famously told us artists are inherently right wing . . ."
Really? I missed that. Was she using "right wing" in the current, a-historical sense? As those of you who read books probably know, "right wing" originally referred to the side of the French parliament that supported Church-and-State authoritarianism. If there were any modern counterpart to that it would be today's authoritarian "Left," or as I call them, the New Tories.
Now I am something of an artist myself, and have generally hung around with artsy crowd. And if you're using "right wing" in the current, a-historical, bastardized sense of the term (given us, according to Goldberg's LIBERAL FASCISM, by the Stalinists of the Thirties, who called anyone opposed to Stalin a "right winger") to mean those of us in the pro-freedom, anti-statist camp, I haven't seen any preponderance of "right wingers" among the artists I know. Whether actors, painters, dancers, whatever, these so-called "free spirits" tend to be the State's Eloi.
"I haven't seen any preponderance of "right wingers" among the artists I know.”
No, she was referring to Dylan refusing to subjugate his art to the politics of the left at the time. She was referring to the totalitarian tendencies of the left, which we all see every day, and the need of artists for freedom. Propagandists don’t need freedom, and we. see their work on network TV and in the movies all the time. Though I have noticed that there are more and more non woke movies in theaters recently, so maybe the almighty dollar, bless its heart, does rule Hollywood.
"Althouse once famously told us artists are inherently right wing . . ."
The creative types are typically on the left-wing (i.e. central, single, minority, authoritarian) of the political spectrum because they favor redistributive change to subsidize their lifestyles and green lawns. Libertarians, not so much. Although, there is a far-right and a left-right nexus of totalitarianism and anarchism.
"Duh!? This is why art is considered idolatry... the creative has a God complex and worships herself."
No, not at all. Art is considered (by some religions) as idolatry because humans tend to focus on the representation of a thing or idea and invest the representations with significance, making the representations into "idols," while ignoring the actual things or ideas being represented.
Creativity is a vague attribute. The others can be judged and are rather concrete when put against creativity, whatever it is.
My wife is an artist and recent art teacher; a registered Democrat who has never voted for a Republican. However, she considers herself a moderate, maybe because she married me.
Her intuitive thinking style is totally different from my analytical approach. Sometimes it is frustrating to communicate, but I appreciate that her artistic intuition hits the nail on the head in some situations where I have no clue. Intuitive thinkers also seem to have a greater susceptibility to media manipulation because their thinking style is not necessarily moored to hard facts.
I sincerely appreciate her creativity when it comes to art. However, I am the much more creative one when it comes to cooking. We sort of inspire each other. I find her creativity a very positive (but sometimes frustrating) trait.
People ALWAYS answer candidly and accurately on "studies" doncha know.
Madame Covary.
They need to study psychopathic baldness.
"Then why are you here, Cupcake? Are we your bit of strange?"
That's the kind of "creativity" that doesn't get you married. Nobody wants to listen to that kind of "humor" day after day. And no, I don't care if you - 1 out of 320 million - are married.
potential mates
funny! they asked people what they looked for in potential mates, and they received breeding characteristics... Go Figure!
The starving artist might be great in the sack, but you don't want her to be the mother of your children
why didn't they ask the women who they'd rather drop their drawers for;
a milktoast in a minivan, or a bad boy on a chopper?
OR, if you prefer...
why didn't they ask the men who'd they'd rather cheat on their wives with;
a plane jane librarian, or a tattooed red headed cosmetologist?
{or, of Course, the best of both worlds; the red header librarian that inherited the town's books}
Rory, above, zeroes in on the main problem here. "Creative" doesn't really mean "artistic". My own opinion of artists is that the vast majority of them aren't creative, or even talented, and most are definitely not successful. The poor artist is a stereotype for a reason, and I suspect that is what is not desired.
Gilbar @5:09 has it right, IMO. The kind of person one might want casual sex with is not necessarily the type whom you'd want to marry. A good lover might make a terrible spouse.
When I got married, I was hoping for non-stop, wild uninhibited sex. Sadly for me,that ended up co-varying with her need for me to do the yard work, be nice to her mother and take care of the kids on her night out with her friends.
Of course, in most of the animal kingdom, it's the males who must be physically attractive to their potential mate.
Of course, in most of the animal kingdom, it's the males who must be physically attractive to their potential mate.
For a lot of birds, but not most, if any, mammals; humans and rodents might be a rare partial exceptions.
How about insects?
speaking of creativity; i'm not sure that even I would be wanting one of these gals as a permanent partner... They seem MUCH more in the 'fling' catagory
FEMME FATALES How Mexican cartels’ girl assassins bathe in the blood of their victims and have sex with their corpses
That's the kind of "creativity" that doesn't get you married. Nobody wants to listen to that kind of "humor" day after day. And no, I don't care if you - 1 out of 320 million - are married.
Sorry you didn't get that the joke was on us.
For a lot of birds, but not most, if any, mammals; humans and rodents might be a rare partial exceptions.
Which lion has the mane? Give me an example of female mammals being 'prettier' than the males, Fernandistein.
Which deer has the bigger rack?
One doe to another: Look at the rack on that one!
making the representations into "idols," while ignoring the actual things or ideas being represented.
I went to Prom with one of the cheerleaders. By the end of the night, I knew why she was with me.
making the representations into "idols," while ignoring the actual things or ideas being represented.
One man's revolutionary patriot is another man's terrorist.
Give me an example of female mammals being 'prettier' than the males
Cows. Maybe you like bull, but they look like shit to me.
I believe "cow eyes" are supposed to be good.
Which lion has the mane? Give me an example of female mammals being 'prettier' than the males, Fernandistein.
Your original claims was:
"it's the males who must be physically attractive to their potential mate."
Female lions do NOT pick their mates. They mate with the male lion(s) who have chased away or killed the other male lions. The females don't have a choice and don't choose the new male lion they mate with.
It doesn't matter if humans think the male lions look cooler than the females, the purpose of mane and such is no doubt to look larger and scarier to other male lions.
Fun fact: the lioness's new boyfriend will kill all her existing children, which makes her go into heat. Domestic cats sometimes do the same thing.
Which deer has the bigger rack?
One doe to another: Look at the rack on that one!
In some deer species (fallow?), the female deer do have some choice/selection, but, IIRC it's restricted to the males who have chased way the other males, and speaking of a big rack, elk form harems with one male and many females (dozens) and their behavior is similar to that of lions: the males chase all the other males away and the females have no choice and mate with the one males that's left. The male elk often die in the winter after their year of having a harem because all the fighting they did to maintain the harem prevented them from eating enough. But having dozens of offspring makes up for it.
Horses and sea lions also chase off other males and form similar harems.
"During the mating season of temperate [deer] species, males use one of three strategies to obtain access to receptive females. They may defend a territory [=chase away other males] that overlaps the ranges of females, as does the muntjac. They may defend a single doe against all suitors [=chase away other males], as does the white-tailed deer. Or they may attempt to assemble and hold a harem of females [=chase away other males], as does the red deer (Cervus elaphus)."
the males chase all the other males away and the females have no choice and mate with the one males that's left.
Well, duh! ;-) Obviously it's the studliest male that gets the females unless you think the females would really prefer to mate with beta males.
Anecdotal support: I have an older brother who is one of the most talented people I've known - musically and visually in various instruments and media. An artist, who is a marxist, he resents anyone that offers to or actually purchases his work for less than his asking price (which is calculated by his hours times his rate). He is the biggest asshole I know.
Who'd prefer a tatted up ginger tart?
Well, duh! ;-) Obviously it's the studliest male that gets the females unless you think the females would really prefer to mate with beta males.
You still don't get it: the females don't choose. Their preference, if there is one, is not expressed and doesn't matter.
" A good lover might make a terrible spouse.”
By “spouse” Mock means a beast of burden who will remain in the yoke to raise other men’s biological children.
You still don't get it: the females don't choose. Their preference, if there is one, is not expressed and doesn't matter.
I do get your point, Drago. It is selection, itself, that does the selecting, thereby choosing the best male for the herd. But I would argue that the alpha male is the one the females would have chosen, anyway. The lion's mane and the large rack of antlers are symbols of success in the arena.
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