Althouse: Compare: Kamala Harris and Tulsi Gabbard.

August 1, 2019

Compare: Kamala Harris and Tulsi Gabbard.

Transcript at "Gabbard vs. Harris: You Kept Prisoners Locked Up For Labor, Blocked Evidence That Would Free Man On Death Row."

120 comments:

Yancey Ward said...: My impressions of the two women is that there is vastly more depth in Gabbard than there is in Harris. You don't need depth and intelligence to be a successful politician, but you had better have it if you don't have a polished glibness to fall back on. What I get from Harris repeatedly is that she can't think on her feet.; 8/1/19, 12:04 PM
FrankiM said...: Tulsi Gabbard says that Trump supports al Qaeda. That’s was a very strong statement.; 8/1/19, 12:05 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Tulsi is calm and cool. Kamala is ... angry.
Too bad Tulsi blew it with her lame comment about Trump supporting AlQaeda.; 8/1/19, 12:10 PM
FrankiM said...: Tulsi Gabbard
@TulsiGabbard
Hey
@realdonaldtrump
: being Saudi Arabia’s bitch is not “America First.”
11:01 AM · Nov 21, 2018·Twitter for iPhone

I admire her strength.; 8/1/19, 12:11 PM
rehajm said...: I hate questions like this. Stronger how? Stronger to whom? After they both lose will I get points deducted just for choosing? Victory for either of them is the VP slot or fifth place or a lower cabinet position or a spot on the panel at CNN.; 8/1/19, 12:13 PM
chuck said...: Harris is vastly weaker. She lacks comfort with herself and needs aging.; 8/1/19, 12:14 PM
Anne in Rockwall, TX said...: Wow. Gabbard shone in that clip. Harris had no come back. She did the work? According to Gabbard, she did the work badly.

Harris saying that the reforms were put in place and are a model for the rest of the country sounded like grasping at straws compared to Gabbard and her "withholding evidence that would free a man on death row until you were forced to disclose it." was a slam dunk.; 8/1/19, 12:15 PM
FrankiM said...: “Israel needs to stop using live ammunition in its response to unarmed protesters in Gaza. It has resulted in over 50 dead and thousands seriously wounded,” she tweeted in May 2014. (Jerusalem Post, January 13, 2019)“

Tulsi Gabbard is a Democrat, despite her strength.; 8/1/19, 12:16 PM
FrankiM said...: Harris is losing ground. She’s not quite toast yet though.; 8/1/19, 12:18 PM
Beasts of England said...: It's not even close. Tulsi argued a distinct issue, backed up with examples, and Kamala could only respond with platitudes.

Even worse, from the perspective that the left tends toward the visceral, is the delivery and body language. Tulsi was smooth and sincere; Kamala was dismissive and condescending.; 8/1/19, 12:18 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Using anything CA does as an example of success is laughable.; 8/1/19, 12:18 PM
Fernandinande said...: Here's a little article about the subjects; if it's accurate, Gabbard misrepresented the issues:

Judge Anne-Christine Masullo wrote in her decision that prosecutors “at the highest levels of the district attorney’s office knew that Madden [worked at police lab] was not a dependable witness at trial and that there were serious concerns regarding the crime lab.”

Harris has denied being aware of those issues until the scandal exploded and also noted that her office implemented reforms once it had. Her office dismissed an estimated 1,000 cases as a result.

...

In February, California Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new DNA testing in the 1983 murder case of Kevin Cooper. Cooper came within hours of execution in 2004 after being charged with the murders of an adult couple and two children. Harris opposed the testing when she was the state’s attorney general.
...
The testing is not yet complete. Whether Gabbard’s claim that the testing “would” have exonerated him remains an open question.; 8/1/19, 12:18 PM
Carol said...: I don't mind prosecutors who are tough on crime. Not at all. And possession charges only? What else was going on? Assault? Burglary? Was it part of a plea deal with other charges dropped?

No this line of attack doesn't float my boat at all. But I guess it "works," so equal.; 8/1/19, 12:19 PM
Big Mike said...: Says something about the Democrats or Hawaii or both that the brain-dead Mazie Hirono is a senator and Gabbard only a member of the House of Representatives.; 8/1/19, 12:20 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: I think the two of them together are 2/3rds of what Willie Brown likes to call 'a Willie Brown sandwich'.

I am Laslo.; 8/1/19, 12:22 PM
rcocean said...: Tulsi needs to replace Brad Schenker as the Hawaii senator. The state of Hawaii needs a Samoan not a Haleo in that job. As for Tulsi vs. Harris. I guess Tulsi is looking for a VP slot with Joe. Her attack on Harris was a cheap host and Harris defended herself as best she could.

And what's up with Jack Tapperhead? He cuts off Harris to let Tulsi continue the attack. I looked it up - the two CNN moderators talked 140 separate times! Almost all those were interruptions.; 8/1/19, 12:27 PM
Beasts of England said...: If I had to guess at the Dem ticket today, I'd say Biden-Gabbard. It's not a bad team for the left - fairly competitive.; 8/1/19, 12:27 PM
wendybar said...: Tulsi was doing well, until she claimed with a straight face that President Trump supports Al Queda. That right there probably blew her chances.; 8/1/19, 12:27 PM
FrankiM said...: “[Trump] says he doesn’t want it [war with Iran], but the actions of him and his administration, people like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo, tell us a very different story. They are setting the stage for a war with Iran that would prove to be far more costly, far more devastating and dangerous than anything that we saw in the Iraq war.” (ABC News, May 19, 2019)

Gabbard has said she favors rejoining the nuclear agreement with Iran.
“Trump says he doesn't want war with Iran, but that's exactly what he wants, because that's exactly what Saudi Arabia, Netanyahu, al-Qaeda, Bolton, Haley, and other neocons and neolibs want….That’s what he put first — not America.” (@TulsiGabbard)

“It’s unfortunate that an issue as important as preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons has been muddled by partisan politics. This is an extremely serious issue, at a critical juncture, that should not be used as a political football.” Statement after Prime Minister Netanyahu’s speech to Congress opposing a nuclear deal with Iran. (Jerusalem Post, January 13, 2019)

If they [the Trump administration] were truly concerned about human suffering, they would most certainly not take action to increase the likelihood of direct conflict with Iran or Russia—which could lead to World War III and suffering beyond our imagination. (The Nation, September 20, 2018)“

Tulsi, the beautiful strong woman is a Democrat. It seems as if many here would like to forget that fact. An injection of reality is strong medicine for those who are infatuated with Tulsi.; 8/1/19, 12:29 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: Like Hillary, Harris has the whole 'angry woman' vibe. Everyone hates angry, bitter women. Most especially other women.

Tulsi is easier to like and easier on the eyes. She still won't get my vote, but my penis is working on changing my mind.

Robin Williams was right!; 8/1/19, 12:30 PM
rcocean said...: Harris is about as far left as you can be on crime and still get elected in Liberal California. That's she's being attack as too "Conservative" just shows how INSANE the D's are on crime. They're not just "soft on crime" - they positively approve of it.

To get on death row in California you have to get videoed killing at least 3 people. Anything short of that is considered too weak of a case.; 8/1/19, 12:31 PM
Francisco D said...: Tulsi was doing well, until she claimed with a straight face that President Trump supports Al Queda. That right there probably blew her chances.

She was too clever by half and should have avoided that quip completely.

What she wanted to say was that by supporting the Saudis against the Iran-backed Houthis, Trump indirectly backs AQ.

What she forgets is that Middle East alliances are so complex and evanescent that this was inevitable.; 8/1/19, 12:33 PM
mccullough said...: Tulsi is positioning herself for 2024. She’s taking Harris out now.

Make a respectable showing and be the nominee in 2024.

Well played.; 8/1/19, 12:33 PM
rcocean said...: Hawaii is a Democrat state. So, I'm for Tulsi replacing Brad Schneker as the D's Hawaii Senator. She's the closest thing they have to real Hawaiian.; 8/1/19, 12:34 PM
Michael said...: Harris has been tagged as a shape-shifting politico, and Gabbard brought that out in sharp relief. In order to run for Prez, it was first imperative she soften the image of a lock 'em up prosecutor, which is why Kamala signed on to Rand Paul's criminal reform package. Think about it, save for McConnell is there any one Senator more lambasted by progressives than Rand Paul?

Tulsi, with that line about marijuana, did a lot of damage to Harris' credibility.; 8/1/19, 12:35 PM
FrankiM said...: “When asked if she thought Ilan's remarks were anti-Semitic, she replied, “What I’m saying is, is what she was trying to bring up was something that was a deeper issue. And I don’t believe that her intent was to cause any offense to anyone.” (CNN Town Hall, March 10, 2019)”

Last one. For you men who are easily influenced by a pretty face.; 8/1/19, 12:37 PM
narciso said...: she backs the Iranian side of the equation from Tehran to Syria to Venezuela, which also usually involves Russia, vs the Saudi emirate Israeli lineup,; 8/1/19, 12:40 PM
AZ Bob said...: As a CA prosecutor of 32 years, I never saw anyone "go to prison for marijuana." It is possible to go to prison for sales of marijuana but even then the offense carries the lightest possible felony sentence, which is a range of 16 months, two years or three years. Prison is not full of marijuana offenders.; 8/1/19, 12:41 PM
langford peel said...: I like Tulsi’s isolationism. That is the one real attractive quality that she has and she needs to beat that drum.

Besides her tits and ass.; 8/1/19, 12:42 PM
Ann Althouse said...: The extreme time constraint made it impossible for Harris to explain the substance of the claims, but she should have had a quick way to say something specific. The ridiculous format favors those who've done the least and who can just sound pure and idealistic and future-oriented. If you have experience and the attacker can cherry-pick, you're kind of screwed. But you should prepare and have a strong, clear capsulized answer for these completely predictable issues.; 8/1/19, 12:43 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Harris gets stuck on the generality that she was elected the state attorney general, that California is really, really big, and she worked very hard. That makes her sound weary... especially with that voice and that shaking and slouching. The presentation was terrible!; 8/1/19, 12:44 PM
langford peel said...: Nobody wants to vote for an angry black woman. If they did Michelle Obama would be the candidate.

The Dems needed to run a celebrity not a politician. Oprah or The Rock or even somebody’s day like Ellen Degeneres. Then they might have had a chance. Someone with built in likability that Trump couldn’t trash. None of the current suspects have that.; 8/1/19, 12:47 PM
narciso said...: covering for the crime lab, protecting sex abusers, oh I bet she did, yes I'm not cutting her any slack on that point, otoh, there are less tactless ways of taking issue with our on the ground allies in the peninsula and elsewhere,; 8/1/19, 12:48 PM
rcocean said...: AZ Bob said what i was going to say. I've known 2 people who were sent to Jail for MJ possession (not in CA). In both cases, they had committed other crimes (assault, petty theft, resisting arrest) and were MJ dealers. They both plea-bargained down to MJ possession. They only spent 6-9 months in jail. Once out, they were back dealing MJ.; 8/1/19, 12:48 PM
mandrewa said...: I voted basically equal. Of course I'm basing this on my perceptions, I'm not talking about how Democrats would perceive this.

And it's because of two things that Gabbard said that I have a negative reaction to her.
First I simply do not believe the claim that Harris kept prisoners in the California prison system so that California can benefit from their labor.

It sounds like a fabrication, a hateful and outrageous fabrication, and therefore I feel a very negative reaction to Gabbard when she says that. Of course I don't know whether it is true or not. But I would put the odds on it being true as extremely poor.

Second when she started by bemoaning the higher incarceration rate for black and brown people and implying that this is because of racism. So basically she is advocating for racism in law enforcement, and she is saying that there should be one standard for white people and a completely different standard for black people. And on top of this in your face explicit racism that she is arguing for, she is of course encouraging people who are black and brown to perceive themselves as being discriminated against and encouraging racial conflict.

It astonishes me that more people don't realize that this is the same thing that Hitler did. Hitler's rhetoric may have been a bit more extreme, but Gabbard is in the same ballpark.

Gabbard's best line was about Harris using marijuana while sending people to prison for using marijuana, although I suspect Harris sent alleged dealers to prison, which not only sounds true, but just from watching Harris's face I think there was a give-away.

Harris didn't really say that much. So we can't judge Harris in this excerpt, but I have seen enough of Harris already, to note that she has a similar message as Gabbard. She has done the same thing to others, although not with quite the same air of self-righteousness that Gabbard projects. So in that sense this a wonderful example of what goes around, comes around.; 8/1/19, 12:49 PM
rcocean said...: The problem is that when Harris is attacked FROM THE LEFT on crime, she's in a box. A Republican would say "Yeah, I sure as hell am tough on crime". But she has prove she was prosecutor that was weak on crime. Not exactly what you want.; 8/1/19, 12:51 PM
Achilles said...: FrankiM said...
Harris is losing ground. She’s not quite toast yet though.

Harris was finished from the start.

She has sucked her way into positions she wasn't capable of filling. If she had taken 20 more years to get where she is she might have the experience and skills to manage a national campaign.

But she has always been in positions she didn't deserve and was incapable of discharging. Affirmative Action wasn't even fast enough for Kamala.; 8/1/19, 12:51 PM
Sebastian said...: Gabbard started with a false premise: that the "broken" criminal justice system is "disproportionately negatively impacting" blacks. Disproportionate to what?; 8/1/19, 12:53 PM
bleh said...: I like Tulsi, but I believe she'd be a total disaster as president. And I think everyone should be concerned about her pro-Assad tendencies. I generally oppose US involvement in Syria, and I'm okay with the idea of Assad regaining control of the country. But I don't apologize for him or regurgitate his regime's propaganda. He's a murderous scumbag and a dictator.; 8/1/19, 12:53 PM
rcocean said...: Gabbard is just like Hitler = stupidest comment ever. But thanks for bringing up Nazi's. No political thread is complete without it.; 8/1/19, 12:53 PM
rcocean said...: Why attack Gabbard for being soft on crime, or giving black/brown crooks "get out of jail free" cards?

They are ALL Like that. Even Harris.; 8/1/19, 12:55 PM
langford peel said...: “Second when she started by bemoaning the higher incarceration rate for black and brown people and implying that this is because of racism. So basically she is advocating for racism in law enforcement, and she is saying that there should be one standard for white people and a completely different standard for black people.”

You say that like it is a bad thing. If they locked up the blacks who commit crimes in Baltimore it might become a decent place to live. Instead the corrupt black mayor wanted to give them space to riot. They emasculated the police. Thus you have a Third World shithole while the Congressman has a closet full of thousand dollar suits.

Cause and effect.; 8/1/19, 12:55 PM
Jeff said...: I don't doubt that most or even all of the people Harris sent to jail for marijuana possession were plea-bargained down from more serious charges. Nor do I believe the stuff about keeping people beyond their sentences for cheap labor. Prosecutors suppressing evidence that hurts their case happens every day, so I'm inclined to believe that charge.

But, like Althouse says, Harris had to know that sooner or later someone was going to bring this stuff up, and she should have had a much better answer ready to roll out. And Tulsi's distortion of the facts in making these charges is in the finest traditions of Democratic Party politicians, and reflects quite accurately who they are as people.; 8/1/19, 1:02 PM
Laslo Spatula said...: Sure, Kamala might have been hard on crime , but she was good with other hard ons.

I am Laslo.; 8/1/19, 1:04 PM
Clyde said...: All of the Democrats have bad ideas that would make Americans less well off than they are today and would not solve the problems that the Democrats say they would. Rep. Gabbard is probably one of the least bad options, but still bad. She is the most attractive woman in the Democrat field, although relative youth probably has a lot to do with that.; 8/1/19, 1:06 PM
langford peel said...: Listen we know that Kamala is going to blow it.

After all that is her claim to fame.; 8/1/19, 1:09 PM
Known Unknown said...: I think once behind the Resolute Desk, Tulsi would be Saudia Arabia's bitch as well.; 8/1/19, 1:09 PM
mandrewa said...: rocean I suppose you can be forgiven for not knowing it, since our educational system is partly about hiding the past but Hitler had certain standard messages, and I'm not going to cite all of them because for one thing leftists will think I'm praising Hitler.

(Somehow they never wonder why it is they think that!)

But in any case two of the standard Nazi messages were:

1) The evil, Jewish capitalists were suppressing the ethnic Germans.

2) The Jews were getting all of the best jobs and were denying the Germans their legitimate place.

Now I ask you: you really don't think Gabbard's rhetoric takes us part way down the road to the same place?; 8/1/19, 1:12 PM
rcocean said...: Look, nobody expects a Hawaiian Democrat to attack a California Democrat for being too Tough on crime. Especially when they are both "Women of Color". And the attack came out of nowhere. Nobody expects the Tulsi Inquisition.

Harris was writing something while Tulsi was talking. It was probably "Fire Debate Prep Staff".; 8/1/19, 1:16 PM
rcocean said...: Just shut up about Germans/Jews and Nazis. Talk about derailing a thread.

Adios.; 8/1/19, 1:17 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Mass, disproportionate incarceration of minorities ended the crime wave that terrorized New York City in the 70s and 80s. Mayor Giuliani put the bad guys in jail and, almost overnight, the city became livable again. I lived through that era in NYC.

I'll bet mass, disproportionate incarceration of minorities in Baltimore would quickly put an end to the gang reign of terror in that city, too.

This notion that legalization of marijuana will empty the jails of black men is wishful thinking. I'm in favor of legalization. I'll also bet that 10 years after legalization black men still make up 50% of the prison population. New York State has not enforced criminal marijuana possession laws for a very long time and the jails are still full up with black men.

It's actually quite difficult to land your ass in jail. Three or four felonies, often violent felonies, pleaded down to misdemeanors before the criminal get sent up the river.

The problem here is that black men commit such a huge proportion of violent crime. So, yeah, they are disproportionately prosecuted and convicted, and they deserve it.

So, the hell with both candidates.; 8/1/19, 1:18 PM
buwaya said...: This is a personality contest.
Who has the ability to grab attention, to be taken seriously, to be seen as significant.
To be seen as the chosen of the Gods.

This came up in the Republican primaries in 2015-16.
I said that Trump had some of Garcia Lorca's "duende"
https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Spanish/LorcaDuende.php

Also a matter of degree. Also has nothing to do with making sense.; 8/1/19, 1:19 PM
Rosalyn C. said...: I watched Harris interviewed by Anderson Cooper after the debate and she was completely relaxed and confident, she's convinced she will become president. She said she knew she'd take hits because she is a top tier candidate and then dismissed Gabbard as someone with too low a rating to be concerned about. Cooper agreed.; 8/1/19, 1:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Blogger Fernandistein said...
Here's a little article about the subjects; if it's accurate, Gabbard misrepresented the issues:

If so, it's just that much worse for Harris (at least from the standpoint of a debate), as she could have easily refuted those points.; 8/1/19, 1:26 PM
gspencer said...: Karmala needs to have a conversation about that scowl.; 8/1/19, 1:28 PM
buwaya said...: Gabbard is only 1/4 Samoan, or less.
That is, in the old Spanish caste system she may have been a castiza, but in practice would quite likely have been seen as white.

The Spanish caste system was much more practical and useful than the North American "one drop" rule.

Harris on the other hand would be some sort of parda, being a daughter of a mulato and an india (a proper india in this case).; 8/1/19, 1:31 PM
madAsHell said...: I'll also bet that 10 years after legalization black men still make up 50% of the prison population.

It's funny. If you go back, and look at photos of prison inmates from the 1940's, and 50's, then you see that the population was all white. I'm guessing the black community settled things differently before LBJ's Great Society turned things upside down.; 8/1/19, 1:34 PM
chuck said...: > I'm guessing the black community settled things differently before LBJ's Great Society

IIRC, Kareem Abdul-Jabber in his autobiography mentions that his dad and friends helped drug dealers fall off tall buildings.; 8/1/19, 1:43 PM
buwaya said...: "It's funny. If you go back, and look at photos of prison inmates from the 1940's, and 50's, then you see that the population was all white."

This is somewhat due to black people being a local population. Most of the US had relatively few black people. Even so, blacks were imprisoned at a much higher rate even a hundred years ago.

Though it is true that in relative terms blacks were much less criminal than they are today.; 8/1/19, 1:46 PM
Amexpat said...: especially with that voice

There was something very familiar with Harris' voice. I finally placed it. It's the same as Wendie Malick, who played Nina Van Horn on "Just Shoot Me".

Harris is vulnerable to such attacks and Tulsi was smart to go after her instead of Biden. She's trying to work her way up the ladder. She was the most googled candidate in all 50 states after the debate. Be interesting to see if that translates to a bump in the polls.; 8/1/19, 1:47 PM
buwaya said...: "Harris has the media behind her, and that has traditionally been the deciding factor. "

Harris has money behind her, and the California machine. The media is a purchased tool.; 8/1/19, 1:48 PM
mandrewa said...: That's an amazing thing to say, madAsHell,

"It's funny. If you go back, and look at photos of prison inmates from the 1940's, and 50's, then you see that the population was all white. I'm guessing the black community settled things differently before LBJ's Great Society turned things upside down."

I didn't realize that. What changed? Something huge happened and it is actually within the lifetime of some of us commenting here.

We know that part of it is the welfare state and the war on the family. But was this driven by the mass movement of black people from the rural south to the big cities and the collapse of rural black society? There has to have been some profound change in how the average black person related to others.; 8/1/19, 1:49 PM
Real American said...: Harris is just another empty chair Democrat. The media pumps her up, but it's clear she didn't get to where she is based on merit...but we know that already.; 8/1/19, 1:52 PM
chuck said...: There has to have been some profound change in how the average black person related to others.

The Left is the worst thing that has happened to Blacks in recent history.; 8/1/19, 1:53 PM
Tank said...: Sebastian said...

Gabbard started with a false premise: that the "broken" criminal justice system is "disproportionately negatively impacting" blacks. Disproportionate to what?

You have to look at this in the context of a Democrat Party primary debate. In that context Gabbard had some excellent facts to attack Harris, and she did it in a succinct and effective way. Harris did not even deny any of the allegations, or state that the facts were taken out of context.; 8/1/19, 1:53 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: So, we're supposed to be concerned about (a) which of these two clowns wins the nomination or (b) whether black gangs continue to terrorize Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis and Baltimore?; 8/1/19, 1:58 PM
buwaya said...: Narcotics are a very important factor.
This exploded in the 1960's.
Partly because of technology (leading to mass production of heroin and cocaine for instance), partly because of improved communications, leading to high volume global smuggling from production centers in Central Asia, Southeast Asia, and Latin America.
American consumers could enjoy the products of Colombia or the Golden Triangle cheaply (relatively).; 8/1/19, 1:59 PM
AZ Bob said...: rcocean But she has (to) prove she was (a) prosecutor that was weak on crime. Not exactly what you want.

Many prosecutors in the trenches, including myself, felt that AG Harris was in fact weak on crime. She many times sought headlines in order to prove her liberal bona fides.

I agree with Ann that Harris response was weak.

Like many politicians who come from prosecutor offices, Harris probably didn't try many serious cases before juries. Her political skills moved her out of the courtroom.

In the debate, she had an opportunity to score big points. Is Gabbard saying that Harris refused to release convicted felons in order to make license plates? Instead Harris filibustered.

One of the main jobs of the Attorney General in California is to respond to every appeal of a felony criminal conviction. And, every person convicted is entitled to a free attorney to bring such an appeal. Gabbard, are you suggesting that every appeal be conceded?

Harris was too fearful to throw it back at Gabbard possibly because she buys into the liberal memes herself or she feels guilty for being a prosecutor.; 8/1/19, 2:05 PM
buwaya said...: Overall American white people became much less murderous since @1960, while American black people became much more murderous, to use a reliable marker.

I suspect this was due to differential improvements in standards or living, and of differential vulnerability to new perils like widespread availability of narcotics.; 8/1/19, 2:05 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: @buwaya

My guess is that the police broke the back of the Mafia, with full public support, while black gangs flourished under the protection of liberal compassion.; 8/1/19, 2:07 PM
Browndog said...: Harris didn't even raise an eyebrow because she knows she doesn't need to.

She knows the media will bury her sins the same way they buried Obama's. She knows anyone that mentions her sins will be destroyed.

That's why yesterday Gabbard was just another nobody pretending to run for President.

Today, she's a Russian asset. Her crimes will be thoroughly investigated.; 8/1/19, 2:08 PM
AZ Bob said...: BTW does anyone think that the fight between Harris and Gabbard is for the VP position if a man is the presidential nominee?; 8/1/19, 2:08 PM
buwaya said...: "Harris was too fearful to throw it back at Gabbard"

Because this is a losing argument in terms of liberal religious dogma.
Gabbard caught Harris in a dogma-trap.

It has nothing to do with guilt, these people are as purely amoral as any human beings on Earth, they have no shame or internal constraints.; 8/1/19, 2:09 PM
cf said...: R.J. Chatt said... I watched Harris interviewed by Anderson Cooper after the debate and she was completely relaxed and confident"

i saw that interview, and you see how deep "respect all women" goes with a Woman Leader against another Woman leader, what a pompous Ass Harris is. PLUS, indeed as Althouse said, she is not really prepared is she . . .

actually, come to think of it, she would be a perfect substitute for candidate Hillary Clinton. Go Kamala! hahahah; 8/1/19, 2:12 PM
buwaya said...: "black gangs flourished under the protection of liberal compassion."

Black gangs are the retail end of that business. The Mafia was not "broken", it migrated into more lucrative and more-legal fields. Some backward remnants of the old mafia were wiped up, but not the bulk of it.

I think it may be instructive to investigate just how much of the American business and political elite have their roots in the mob. Its not just Joe Kennedy.

An often surprising article -
http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-power-of-organized-crime/; 8/1/19, 2:17 PM
Limited blogger said...: On CNN afterwards, Harris dismissed Gabbard's attack as an 'also ran' going after a 'front runner'.; 8/1/19, 2:29 PM
mandrewa said...: buwaya said, "This is somewhat due to black people being a local population. Most of the US had relatively few black people."

I can confirm that from my personal experience. I hardly ever saw black people as a child. I grew up in the Mid-West, in different states, including five years in Madison, Wisconsin.

In ninth grade, in Madison, I think it was during Soglin's first term, there was one black kid in high school: several thousand white children and one black child.

The next year, we moved to Columbia, Missouri, and Columbia had just been desegregated. By which I mean that there had been a black school system and a white school system and they had just been put together, like a year or two earlier.

And it wasn't just the school system. It was a segregated community with a black part of town and a white part of town and there was a invisible line between the two.

I used to cross that line all the time because high school was four miles away from where I lived and the black community was right in between and I used to ride my bike through every day.

The houses and yards were smaller in the black part of town, but it was all very orderly. All of those houses and yards had everything in place.

And you would think there would be all this racial tension in this still very segregated town. But if it was there it wasn't exactly obvious. Black people were nice to me. People were very courteous. They felt like a totally different group of people whom I did not understand, but I did not feel hostility.

What happened? Why have things gone so badly since then?; 8/1/19, 2:33 PM
traditionalguy said...: Gabbard is Hawaiian. Their Island traditions are based on the keeping of enslaved workers for the Kings and Queens and later for sugar cane and pineapple Company field labor. So Tulsi understands convict labor working on Street sanitation slavery still in use on the west coast. And she dared to tell the truth in public.; 8/1/19, 2:43 PM
traditionalguy said...: That is where Hawaiis large Japanese population came from. They were indentured slaves for field work. Native Hawaiians don’t work.; 8/1/19, 2:46 PM
Howard said...: Tulsi had several full Billboards in and around the New Hampshire Alps. Didn't see any other candidates campaign signs.; 8/1/19, 2:49 PM
buwaya said...: "Gabbard is Hawaiian"

She isn't Hawaiian at all, not genetically. She grew up mainly in Hawaii, so there is that, but it was a Hawaii without many real Hawaiians in it. There are remarkably few real Hawaiians left.

She is at least 3/4ths white and 1/4 or less Samoan.

Now you can say that Samoan = Hawaiian, and there is indeed a connection.
There is also a connection with Filipinos, as Filipinos, Samoans and Hawaiians all speak branches of the Austronesian group of languages. I myself, no great linguist, can pick some common words from Hawaiian in Tagalog.
But they are culturally very distinct, Filipinos, Samoans and Hawaiians.; 8/1/19, 2:52 PM
Comanche Voter said...: Gabbard is slightly below the cut line for making the September Dim Debates. The standard requires 130,000 individual campaign donors. She has 114,000 now. You also have to make a minimum score in 4 polls. She's scored in one. So she needs to up her game to make the September debates. A good solid attack on Harris probably will add one or two more favorable poll numbers. So she's close.

If feminine beauty has anything to do with it, Gabbard is the class of the Democrat field.
She's a generation younger than Warren (a generation and a half for Messrs. Sanders and Biden) and 15 years or so younger than Harris.

She's a "combat veteran" although of a lowly sort. She was a junior enlisted person in a medical support battalion in Iraq for a year. Not exactly out there in a foxhole or Hummvee with a rifle. I'm not certain what she did other than semi nursing duties. That said she's now a Major in a National Guard Military Police Unit, and was deployed overseas as an officer in that Military Police Unit. So she's at least as good as John Kerry on the veteran scene.

And finally just based on last night's performance. Harris was visibly rattled several times. Gabbard was calm cool and collected, although she didn't have to deal with as much "incoming" as Harris. I hope Gabbard makes the cut for September, although I'm not motivated enough to make a donation to her campaign to help her get there.; 8/1/19, 2:55 PM
buwaya said...: FYI - on the links between Tagalog (Filipino) and Hawaiian.
These run pretty deep.
My wife is still, sporadically, learning Hawaiian, due to her interest in Hula.

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-Hawaiian-and-Filipino-word-cognates; 8/1/19, 2:56 PM
Bill Peschel said...: > I'm guessing the black community settled things differently before LBJ's Great Society

> IIRC, Kareem Abdul-Jabber in his autobiography mentions that his dad and friends helped drug dealers fall off tall buildings.

My FIL, who was a police officer in Dover, Del., for 20 years, said black suspects would rather be arrested by white officers than black officers.; 8/1/19, 2:58 PM
Wince said...: I'm waiting for the swimsuit competition.; 8/1/19, 3:00 PM
traditionalguy said...: Also recall that Kamala’s Jamaican side of the family were plantation owners that bought slaves to do the intense field work. So using the 13 Amendment exception to outlawed slavery came naturally to her. Get Slaves to do the work for no wages and get rich by under feeding them Gulag style.; 8/1/19, 3:08 PM
Browndog said...: Gabbard is slightly below the cut line for making the September Dim Debates. The standard requires 130,000 individual campaign donors. She has 114,000 now.

The deal has been altered.

Following the purge of white women in DCCC leadership, Yang was informed on Tuesday that he was no longer qualified for the September debates, as he was before, under the "new criteria".

Stay tuned...; 8/1/19, 3:12 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: That research was dug up for Tulsi gabbard by somebody else, and some of her criticisms are wrong - t;s all for freeing people from jail regardless of whetehr that is right or wrong. Her accusations against Kamala Harris are probably true but not hers.; 8/1/19, 3:21 PM
Howard said...: Buwaya puti: I remember hearing that most Hawaiians natives are half Portagee.; 8/1/19, 3:45 PM
Known Unknown said...: Tulsi's grey streak is really hot.; 8/1/19, 3:47 PM
Browndog said...: Sammy Finkelman said...

That research was dug up for Tulsi gabbard by somebody else, and some of her criticisms are wrong - t;s all for freeing people from jail regardless of whetehr that is right or wrong. Her accusations against Kamala Harris are probably true but not hers

Odd, that you didn't need a "probably" qualifier when stating Tulsi didn't do her own research, but did for the "accusations" that are public record and well known.; 8/1/19, 3:50 PM
Che Dolf said...: Stephen McIntyre: "Tulsi Gabbard's point - and it's a valid one - is that Trump has warned Syrian government and Russia not to attack Idlib at risk of provoking US. Brett McGurk, US envoy, stated that Idlib contains largest concentration of AlQaeda since 9/11. US has long supplied arms to associates of AlQaeda in Idlib and elsewhere. US and allies supply AlQaeda and associates in Idlib, while sanctioning Syrian govt fighting AlQaeda. Not just Trump: Obama admin did same thing. Trump admin is in de facto alliance with AlQaeda against Iran and against Assad government in Syria."; 8/1/19, 4:16 PM
Tommy Duncan said...: Gabbard's criticism struck directly at Harris' life story. It attacked a portion of her life that Harris has made a centerpiece of her campaign. It was an attack that Harris should have been ready to quickly swat away. Instead, the attack rattled Harris and she fumbled the response.

You could see Harris becoming agitated as Gabbard voiced the attack. She was not emotionally prepared for the attack and it threw her off balance. Harris should have been able to draw on her history and preparation to squash Gabbard. Instead, she gave an unconvincing answer that didn't address Gabbard's hit.

How will Harris respond to Trump during a debate as he towers over her and delivers a hit?; 8/1/19, 4:22 PM
LA_Bob said...: Gabbard is slightly below the cut line for making the September Dim Debates. The standard requires 130,000 individual campaign donors. She has 114,000 now.

According to her website she now has over 120,000 unique donors. I've been watching the count since the June debates, and she has definitely surged since yesterday.

Of course, if the Democrats change the rules to protect Kamala...; 8/1/19, 4:22 PM
Che Dolf said...: bleh said... I think everyone should be concerned about [Tulsi's] pro-Assad tendencies.

"Right after Tulsi announced her campaign I wrote this [NY Daily News] column on the smear that she’s an 'apologist' for Assad. It’s a lie -- there’s no evidence for it."
- Michael Tracey

"To repeat: There is no quote in which Tulsi praises, supports, or otherwise 'apologies for' Assad. I checked the record a long time ago, and it doesn't exist. This is just a smear intended to delegitimize diplomatic engagement."
- Michael Tracey; 8/1/19, 4:33 PM
Michael K said...: There is excellent evidence that Gabbard was effective in the debate last night.

The LA Times has attacked her as a war monger.

Military service is a privilege, sometimes a painful one. It entails the suppression of certain individual interests for the nation’s greater benefit. Whether members of Congress should simultaneously serve as reserve or National Guard officers is a question that should be officially addressed. At a minimum, those who formally seek the office of commander-in-chief should follow the example of Gen. George Washington — and leave military service behind before ascending to political office.

In Detroit, Gabbard promised to bring the “soldier’s values of service above self to the White House.” That’s fine, as long as she leaves the uniform behind well before walking in the front door.

Hear that ? The Commander in Chief should be free of military experience.

I wonder if they agree about Trump ?; 8/1/19, 4:44 PM
Earnest Prole said...: I just want to state for the record that Tulsi Gabbard Got It Goin’ On.; 8/1/19, 4:49 PM
MikeR said...: "If they did Michelle Obama would be the candidate." If Michelle Obama were the candidate I believe she would win. She could skip the debates.; 8/1/19, 5:40 PM
William said...: I don't understand the dynamics, but good looking female candidates don't get the same boost from their good looks as male politicians do. The Beto boom has faded, but he got quite a lot of play out of his good looks. Buttigieg has more poise, but his appeal is based mostly on his looks.....Tulsi, so far as good looks go, is in a whole other dimension than the other female candidates, but it doesn't seem to work in her favor.....Marianne isn't exactly hot, but she has a kind of intriguing presence. Her spare figure, high cheekbones, and haunted eyes seem to have got her more attention than Tulsi's straightforward sex appeal....Of all the female candidates, Warren is, in my opinion, the least attractive, but she polls highest. Like I said, I don't understand the dynamics.; 8/1/19, 5:56 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: I gave Gabbard the edge because she is talking about real, and terribly troubling, prosecutorial misconduct. I think any rational person familiar with some of Harris' positions taken in front of a judge would have cause to question whether she should be entrusted with presidential powers.

However, in terms of presentation and glibness, Harris is at least equal to Gabbard, and frankly sometimes politics can be a shallow affair. Also, let's be real - Gabbard is a white woman and that's not an advantage this cycle at all.; 8/1/19, 6:07 PM
John henry said...: Rcocean,

Samoans are "nationals but not citizens of the United States" under us citizenship law.

John Henry; 8/1/19, 6:08 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: "Poll Dancers"; 8/1/19, 6:14 PM
SweatBee said...: Reading the transcript, I thought Gabbard didn't capitalize on her follow-up as well as she could have. Then I watched the video and realized Harris's body language gave Gabbard the boost. If Harris acts rattled like that up against an introvert, imagine what Trump might goad her into.; 8/1/19, 6:26 PM
Birches said...: The scoff at the end sunk Harris.; 8/1/19, 6:36 PM
DavidUW said...: You think Harris should have expected this line of attack. You don’t understand. In California with he right backers and the right pieties, you never have to prepare anything.

California Lefties simply cannot comprehend an alternative viewpoint. You non Californians, liberal or conservative have no idea how stultifying the politics are here.

Questioning any liberal idea: affirmative action, open borders, socialized healthcare, gun control, simply does not happen in politics here. Nor in the media, schools, nor anywhere in “friendly” conversations.

I made one comment 22 years ago at Berkeley: “so you’re telling me that the SAT is racist, so it was designed by white men to put Asians on top?” The heads exploded. I was immediately shunned until I left the room. That’s kamala’s environment. That’s why she can’t think.; 8/1/19, 7:16 PM
DavidUW said...: It’s happening/ mostly happened with this garbage idea of “social justice”

California Lefties cannot respond to a simple question I posit: “what does social justice provide that individual justice does not”; 8/1/19, 7:22 PM
Gaius Gracchus said...: Tulsi is younger and hotter than Kamala and didn't sleep with Willy Brown to get ahead. Plus she is more American than Harris. Tulsi for the win....; 8/1/19, 7:39 PM
rcocean said...: I was completely wrong about Tulsi. Not only isn't she Hawaiian, she's a Hindu! But she's still a better fit that Brad Shenkner as senator.; 8/1/19, 7:47 PM
rcocean said...: If the Democrats get in charge of the Presidency, everyone in the world will be an American citizen. They'll just have to come here and ask for it.; 8/1/19, 7:48 PM
Ken B said...: The Dems will drop Tulsi from the next debates somehow. The Democrats will never choose a Hindu.; 8/1/19, 7:58 PM
Jokah Macpherson said...: I disagree with Gabbard's position in the exchange but she came off much stronger. Kamala fell into her frame. You have to own the insult. If you put all the kiddos in jail for marijuana you have to be prepared to argue that doing so made everyone safer.; 8/1/19, 8:02 PM
DavidUW said...: She can't defend her record.

Suppressing exculpatory evidence. Violating the Constitution. Refusing to prosecute cop killers fully. Threatening to jail mothers of truant children.

She's both too hot and too cold.; 8/1/19, 9:08 PM
DavidUW said...: Kamala Harris is an awful person. A grasping whore.; 8/1/19, 9:09 PM
Narayanan said...: @Buwaya ...
What would Charles Murray type IQ review of "austronesians" look like?

With Throw in Japanese also; 8/1/19, 9:44 PM
The Godfather said...: Harris was at a disadvantage because of the time rules in this debate. It takes longer to refute a criticism than it takes to make it. Both of them ran out of time -- which means the debate rules didn't allow either of them enough time.

But Harris SHOULD have begun her response by saying something along the lines of: Rep. Gabbard's scurilous attacks on me and my record are false, and I'm going to tell you how and why. Then she could have started to refute any one of the accuations (presumably the easist to refute), and let the moderator cut her off. In the process, she could have heralded her great accomplishments to protect the rights of the poor and minorities. Again, the time limits would have excused her inability to be more specific.

I like Gabbard, but if Harris can't deal with her, how could she deal with Trump?; 8/1/19, 9:47 PM
DavidUW said...: She can't refute them because she's guilty of them. except perhaps the ignoring exculpatory evidence in order to keep them working in prison labor. Rather, she ignored exculpatory evidence because she assumed it would burnish her "electability" somehow.; 8/1/19, 10:23 PM
Fen said...: It really says a lot about our corrupt culture that someone who withheld evidence of innocence is being considered for president.

We just kind of shrug it off like it's acceptable.; 8/2/19, 12:51 AM
Amexpat said...: Hear that ? The Commander in Chief should be free of military experience.

That's not what the op ed is advocating. The point made is: ...those who formally seek the office of commander-in-chief should follow the example of Gen. George Washington — and leave military service behind before ascending to political office.

However, I agree that is no accident that the LA times is choosing to try to use this against Tulsi at this time.; 8/2/19, 1:23 AM
Narayanan said...: What is this I'm reading?

Tulsi -- Samoan is US national not US citizen ?; 8/2/19, 5:41 AM
Chuck said...: From the first moment that I heard Kamala Harris speak at length (when she was already well into her public career, because I am not from California and did not follow her until she ran for state AG, I wondered what the attraction was. The sexiest thing about her was the fact that Obama, as president, made a mildly suggestive comment about her good looks.

Absolutely nothing about her makes me think that she is nice, or intelligent, or even some acceptable combination of the two.

{#15}; 8/2/19, 8:51 AM