"The company said it would not restart the programme until it had conducted a thorough review of the practice.... The suspension was prompted by a report in the Guardian last week that revealed the company’s contractors 'regularly' hear confidential and private information while carrying out the grading process, including in-progress drug deals, medical details and people having sex. The bulk of that confidential information was recorded through accidental triggers of the Siri digital assistant, a whistleblower told the Guardian. The Apple Watch was particularly susceptible to such accidental triggers, they said.... Although Apple told users that Siri data may be used 'to help Siri … understand you better and recognise what you say,' the company did not explicitly disclose that this entailed human contractors listening to a random selection of Siri recordings, including those triggered accidentally...."
The Guardian reports.
What is voluntarily stopped can be voluntarily restarted. And why trust mere assurances — especially when they come from an entity that just screwed up and only stopped because it got caught? The answer is obvious: We like the good things we're getting from the technology. We're voluntarily letting go of our privacy values.
Sometimes I wonder whether we ever really did have very strong privacy values. Perhaps we have a deep-seated need to be watched over — if not by our parents or by God, then by Apple. Apple does seem to have been listening to us so it could take better care of us. It's benevolent, we want to believe. It's much like our other beliefs.
You can shift over to fear of horrible things in the offing — with Apple and with God and maybe even your parents. Throw them all off, if you want, if you can. But will that make your life better? See, that's why you're trusting Apple (and God and your parents) and that's why you don't put all that high a value on privacy.
Want a life firmly, fully premised on privacy? What would that really be like?
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Apple is the biggest hypocrite in the Universe on privacy. The core of its privacy for text messages and Facetime is software patented by a company called Virnetx (VHC). VHC has been in ten years of litigation with Apple and has won FOUR jury verdicts with damages now well over one billion dollars. Apple has not paid a dime.
Yesterday the Federal Circuit denied Apple's request for the entire Federal Circuit to rehear the summary dismissal of its appeal in Apple 3.
The market cap of VHC is less than the jury verdict in Apple 3. Apple 4 will also, IMO, be affirmed as the same issues are presented.
Due you own due diligence, but take a look at VHC today. It went up to $8.47 but then crashed down. Two dollar swing. Thin market and thin float. Big short interest. But VHC will collect its $1b plus from Apple. And there is more to the story than this. Continuing royalties and other licenses.
Apple brags about privacy but has never paid the inventor for it.
Perhaps more like Life Below Zero. Apart from the cameras, you can’t get any more privacy than that. Salmon, moose, caribou, muskrat...or nothing for dinner. And no Siri or Alexa.
- Krumhorn
Fun Questions:
WHO told high tech that what THEY wanted was a computer assistant (at your desk? on your phone? On your wrist?), that wouldn't need to be switched on?
Who said "I WANT the convenience of not having to press a button before asking a question to my computer"?
Any of you posters thought it was something they'd want?
WHO told high tech that what THEY wanted was a computer assistant that could NOT be turned off?
SOMEONE told high tech that this was the way to go, was it YOU? it sure wasn't ME
“Sometimes I wonder whether we ever really did have very strong privacy values. “
We are down to just penumbras now.
Apple was telling the truth with their 1984 ad.
The phone company used to listen to the very start or random calls, for quality control. In particular how calls fail to go through. That was replaced by SIT tones, the three tones at the start of calls that fail, which allowed it to be mechanized.
One of the messages that can be encoded is "number disconnected." This can be sent out by you on your own phone if you want to fool robocall callers. "No point calling there again," it thinks.
We will sacrifice our privacy until we pay for that sacrifice personally in some meaningful capacity. And then the pendulum will swing the other direction, hard.
Apple is, ironically, the best of the big tech companies when it comes to privacy and aligned interests. That's not saying much, but it is saying something.
There needs to be an app that periodically activates Siri and blurts out all kinds of aural nonsense to throw Apple off.
Like Cool Hand Luke with the Chili Powder and the Bloodhounds.
"Well, then, go get it, man."
There's an ancient "community channel" Australian youtube girl who demonstrated how to deal with automated voice menus. Answer every question with unintelligible babbling. It connects you with a human.
Mark Zuckerberg, I think, called it correctly that we care little about privacy in the abstract and are willing to sell it in exchange for something.
The really interesting examples are things like
Equifax data breach
Capital One data breach
US government data breach on military personnel (OPM) with incredibly sensitive personal info
...consequences? Resignations and some moderate costs to the organizations. Mass loss of business? No. Mass public outcry? No.
We've come to accept the information we provide to companies and on forms is not really private anymore and occasionally may be stolen.
I think the more interesting stuff is to come - like how you KNOW some companies are focused in on people in government and collecting blackmail information on them. That's not paranoia - that's common sense. Power corrupts, and right not the technocrats have unchecked power.
It used to be that it was forbidden to use the SS number for identification. It even said that on the card. Your SS was printed on the address of your form 1040 for all to see, in those days.
That was in the days of banks' "know your customer" days. It's much more efficient not to know your customer, just use the social security number, so that's what they started doing.
That's when SS number became a consumer vulnerability. It's commerce.
What's ironic is that while we were worried about the Government using IT to turn us into a Police State, IT conglomerates have taken over the government.
The deplatforming of conservative thought is just the beginning. We're worried about scrubbing our social medua accounts of ThoughtCrime, unaware our dinner table conversations are already being recorded and filed.
"Siri Prime. List all Conservative Dissidents in this sector. Isolate from all financial and social hubs then tag for relocation to Google Thought Camp"
more interesting stuff is to come - like how you KNOW some companies are focused in on people in government and collecting blackmail information on them. That's not paranoia - that's common sense.
i wonder how long it will be before we hear about some wall street guy (that might be working for someone/something else) . . .
buying an island and stocking it with underage girls
inviting rich and powerful men (and women?) there to "play"
filming them for blackmail information
I Know! it sounds CRAZY, but i wonder if it in the pipeline. Of course, if a guy did this; it would be ignored in the media (Even if he got convicted), because of the someone/something else he would be working for. UNLESS, he pissed them off somehow.
Per Roe v. Wade, I have a constitutional right to privacy, which I believe Apple can and does violate at will.
Apples privacy protections are about is good as Google's "do no evil" mantra. It's all BS. I'm sure Alexa and every other device can and does do the same thing.
BTW, it is irrelevant whether it is Apple or a 3rd party contractor doing the listening.
Shorter Fen: Math is Too Hard for deplorables to compete and liberals don't play fair. It's like Jim Crow on paleface. the horror... the horror
"Sometimes I wonder whether we ever really did have very strong privacy values."
Sometimes I wonder whether we fabricated privacy as a constitutional principle to justify abortion.
The Ohio drivers' license guy offered me two kinds of license, one good for boarding airplanes after 2020. Some huge list of identifications is needed to get it. So I opted for the standard. I'll stay off airplanes.
“regularly' hear confidential and private information while carrying out the grading process, including in-progress drug deals, medical details and people having sex.”
I picture a man in bed with his wife Melanie and at climax shouting out “OH. SIRI!”
( Would Siri respond with “Was it good for you?”)
in-progress drug deals, medical details and people having sex
All at the same time, "Oh baby I'm gonna cum thanks to that home-made viagra you sold me!"
When I realized I'd accidentally invited Alexa into my home with my new Kindle Fire, I got excited thinking maybe she'd be good company.
But first thing she said was some trivia about Star Trek. Def needs more training.
Everyone interested in the issue should read Justice Brandeis’ Harvard Law Review article “The Right to Privacy”. Published 130 years ago it is as relevant today.
http://faculty.uml.edu/sgallagher/Brandeisprivacy.htm
I recall some sociobiology and anthropology studies over the years suggesting that "privacy" is a relatively new concept in human history. The basic idea is that for most of our history as a species, we lived in small bands of extended families where everyone knew essentially everything about everyone else. It was only when we started to organize beyond the small village that privacy started to become an issue, since trust doesn't easily scale beyond a relatively small number of acquaintances.
Do you trust Apple? Google? Facebook? Twitter? Other Althouse commenters?
It's a choice whether you put these in your house or not. The phone is really not a choice but I think it's less susceptible. I think? That said about 99% of my clients have them in their homes. A couple that I'm friendly with have said point-blank they don't care about their privacy
Siri, and Alexa: Your own personal Stasi agent that YOU are paying for.
At least ExxonMobil doesn;'t know I'm watching Kpop shows.
They'll get our Kpop, when they pry the earbuds out of our cold, dead ears!
Red Velvet's Red Flavor
Wait...you mean that devices in your home that listen 24/7 might be abused by the companies that produce and sell them?
imagine never being able to turn the TV off and having to watch it all the time, and you've already got a nightmare for many book lovers. However, the telescreens are so much worse.
You could turn the volume down but never off. Also, the telescreens are equipped with very sensitive microphones that can pick up everything that happens in the room. Winston even suggests that they could hear a heartbeat.
Still, that's not the worst part about a telescreen. They don't only show you what the Party wants you to see, but they also show the Party whatever you are up to. That's right - decades before secret cameras, Orwell put them in his telescreens.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-are-telescreens-in-1984.html
remember the Stupid Olden Days?
Back when people thought that their right to privacy covered Anything other than Abortion?
I can well believe that my parents want what's good for me, without entertaining any such delusions abut Apple. No comparison.
unless "all-knowing" is coupled with "all-loving", there will be abuse
ideally, as an 'earthly' example, marriage is a type of this.
to be naked, fully known, warts and all, yet fully loved and safe.
omniscience without benevolence is a recipe for disaster
AAT at 7:46: "...We are down to just penumbras now."
Winner winner chicken dinner!
I wonder if atheists believe in privacy more than religious people? An atheist can kill his neighbor and bury him in the yard and think, "I can get away with this. Nobody knows." A religious person doesn't have that foundational sense of secrecy.
If you voluntarily bring a listening device into your home, you will be monitored by someone, and probably many someones.
I worked in the tech sector for many years. Even before data mining was commonly encountered, I was reluctant to provide personal information to any organization. I hated carrying a pager (eventually a cell phone) because it was an intrusion into my off-hours. People I know that take advantage of services like Alexa, do so for the convenience and discount the privacy component. Not necessarily informed consent, but implied consent.
"The answer is obvious: We like the good things we're getting from the technology. We're voluntarily letting go of our privacy values."
Agreed, though in my opinion 'Siri' doesn't offer nearly enough value to get me to surrender my privacy.
"Who said "I WANT the convenience of not having to press a button before asking a question to my computer"?
Any of you posters thought it was something they'd want? "
NOT ME!
The benign explanation is It's one of those many things foisted on us by software engineers simply because they know how to do it. The sinister explanation is they really do want to spy on us. And even if it's the benign case, they have put in place the means for sinister forces to come along later and exploit it.
There are so many things in the world of technology where my attitude is, "I don't want that".
It used to be that you could easily avoid this persistent spying by your appliances and other tools.
Now you have to really be vigilant to avoid a smart tv, watch, computer, kindle, refrigerator, doorbell and even toasters that are spying on you and reporting back to headquarters.
Really....who needs or even wants all these "smart" interconnected electronic doodads and gadgets. Not only are we being watched....it is just one more GD thing to break.
“Winner winner chicken dinner!”
As a chicken hawk, nothing’s better.
alexa at her finest. a re post, but we luv it
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=siri+who+is+the+president+of+united+states+video&view=detail&mid=0D61C2069793C6D4ABCE0D61C2069793C6D4ABCE&FORM=VIRE
AA: "Want a life firmly, fully premised on privacy? What would that really be like?"
A certified organic hermit comes to mind.
I, for one, welcome our new electronic robot overlords.
So no more human contractors, but what about regular employees?
Since I disabled the Google app on my phone I stopped having the coincidence all the time of my phone and computer and TV (DirecTV brags about this) showing ads of things I only talked about.
I use a VPN to hide from DirecTV cable box snooping.
Somehow though, I did mention that I might want to buy a new pickup and I have been getting hammered with ads for the F150, but that might have come from comments here.
It’s not the ads that bother me, it’s all the stuff you can’t know that they are doing with the information. So on this site I include both disinformation and misinformation about my personal life but not sure if that helps.
I was sitting with a banker this afternoon trying to reset my password. They were using an old house phone number so it wasn't so easy to reset online. I brought my Kindle Fire to show my problem. Anyway, here I was sharing all this confidential info when Alexa pipes up with "I'm sorry...."
"Where did you get that idea, HAL ?"
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=HAL+9000+finds+out+daves+plan&view=detail&mid=07D59875BCE0321AAAA607D59875BCE0321AAAA6&FORM=VIRE
Howard mocks concerns about a Police State. What a piece of shit.
Howard mocks it because he is of the belief that he is on the side of Big Brother.
As my paternal grandmother (1888-1975), a crusty old New Englander used to say ... "Everybody knows what's goin' on around heeyuh. We just read the paypuh to foind out who got caw-whut."
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