From "Australia Is Deadly Serious About Killing Millions of Cats/Feral felines are driving the country’s native species to extinction. Now a massive culling is underway to preserve what’s left of the wild" (NYT).
The highly rated comments at the NYT support what Australia is doing. Example:
We used our yard to create an environment for native birds and insects. It worked. Our land was a perfect habitat for many species of birds, both local and migratory. Until our neighbors got two cats. Six years later I have only the nuisance birds (English sparrows, starlings, ring-neck doves) nesting in my yard. The ground-nesting birds haven't fledged babies since the cats were turned loose to pillage. Not only do they destroy birds, but gardening for food is also now difficult because they defecate in my raised beds. I have had to kill baby bunnies left gutted on my doorstep because the neighbors' cats have decided to 'treat' me. The owner says they bring in dozens of dead and dying birds, lizards, small mammals and snakes every week. Cats that are allowed to roam are a scourge. Australia has it right.AND: Another NYT commenter:
If there were millions of feral dogs roaming the USA in packs, attacking deer, turkey, water fowl, mammals like raccoons and opossums, and other game and native wildlife, you could be darn sure we would be hunting them down.
BTW: there ARE millions of feral cats roaming the USA, killing millions of song birds every year. Why are we letting that happen? Because cat people are totally unrealistic and rather difficult to deal with!
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৮০টি মন্তব্য:
" Cats that are allowed to roam are a scourge. Australia has it right."
Quoted for truth.
The neighbors cats aren’t feral
Not only do they destroy birds, but gardening for food is also now difficult because they defecate in my raised beds.
Next they’ll be dropping sausages in San Francisco.
Feral cats at least are subject to the Lotka-Voltera equations, where as the prey dies out the predator starves and the prey comes back, in cycles. Domestic cats, fed at home, don't die out but keep hunting prey no matter how scarce it gets, and the prey doesn't come back.
If there were millions of feral dogs roaming the USA in packs, attacking deer, turkey, water fowl, mammals like raccoons and opossums, and other game and native wildlife, you could be darn sure we would be hunting them down.
Unless that dog is a wolf and the hunter is a Republican running for national office. Then we’ll be outraged on a national scale.
My ex-boss used to feed the feral cats in the truck shed and warehouse. Three of them became office cats, the first being the most personable by far. He would greet everyone who came in the warehouse and sniff every vehicle, hence his name, Pancake. Soon enough there would be 30-40 out in the shed. Usually, coyotes would get most of them.
I rented a small house just off a trendy area in metro Atlanta last year and discovered the horrors of feral cats. Filthy, diseased, nasty creatures who use your yard as a toilet. The widow of a Lockheed Martin employee down the street fed a dozen or so cats who ruined the neighborhood. Cobb county did nothing and the crazy old woman pulled her shotgun on neighbors who complained. If I had stayed I would have imported some foxes and coyotes into the neighborhood to fix the problem.
Birds on the other hand have an enormous die-out rate naturally, that they compensate for by hugely overbreeding. Remember that two birds only have to produce two surviving offspring over their lifetimes, and they'll breed maybe 16 babies each year to do it. So that's say 62 out of 64 babies die out.
Ever try conveying the message to a neighbor that their roaming cat is hurting the environment? I have! Answers — from highly intelligent people — 1. The cat is part of nature, 2. It would be cruel to keep this particular cat indoors because it has accustomed itself to freedom, 3. There are so many birds...
Perhaps we will see evolution in action. Cats don't reproduce at the same rate as bacteria, but they can still produce 15+ kittens a years and the competition will be less. In the long term, I also expect an increase in IQ.
Cats belong indoors. I’m always surprised and moderately disgusted when someone admits to letting their indoor/outdoor cat inside to roam all over their furniture and counters. And of course it’s terribly dangerous to the cat and to other animals.
Feral cats are a problem. Humans made the problem and sadly, the cats will pay the price.
Let’s keep all the cats inside so we can turn our attention to the sudden overpopulation of birds.
"Because cat people are totally unrealistic and rather difficult to deal with!"
Because people that deal predominately through feelz are totally unrealistic and difficult to deal with!
From Franzen, Jonathan. Freedom: A Novel:
When Walter... came to complain to them about their cats, they felt they understood his worry about birds a lot better than he understood what a hyper-refined privilege it was to worry about them. Linda Hoffbauer, who was Evangelical and the most political person on the street, was especially offended. “So Bobby kills birds,” she said to Walter. “So what?”
“Well, the thing is,” Walter said, “small cats aren’t native to North America, and so our songbirds never evolved any defenses against them. It’s not really a fair fight.”
“Cats kill birds,” Linda said. “It’s what they do, it’s just part of nature.”
"Yes, but cats are an Old World species,” Walter said. “They’re not part of our nature. They wouldn’t be here if we hadn’t introduced them. That’s the whole problem.”
“To be honest with you,” Linda said, “all I care about is letting my children learn to take care of a pet and have responsibility for it. Are you trying to tell me they can’t do that?”
“No, of course not,” Walter said. “But you already keep Bobby indoors in the winter. I’m just asking that you do that in the summer, too, for the sake of the local ecosystem. We’re living in an important breeding area for a number of bird species that are declining in North America. And those birds have children, too. When Bobby kills a bird in June or July, he’s also leaving behind a nest full of babies that aren’t going to live.”
“The birds need to find someplace else to nest, then. Bobby loves running free outdoors. It’s not fair to keep him indoors when the weather’s nice.”
“Sure. Yes. I know you love your cat. And if he would just stay in your yard, that would be fine. But this land actually belonged to the birds before it belonged to us. And it’s not like there’s any way that we can tell the birds that this is a bad place to try to nest. So they keep coming here, and they keep getting killed. And the bigger problem is that they’re running out of space altogether, because there’s more and more development. So it’s important that we try to be responsible stewards to this wonderful land that we’ve taken over.”
“Well, I’m sorry,” Linda said, “but my children matter more to me than the children of some bird. I don’t think that’s an extreme position, compared to yours. God gave this world to human beings, and that’s the end of the story as far as I’m concerned.”
Go get ‘em and good hunting!!!
Real good hunting!
I had a friend in college (Army Reserve) whose task in the US Army was to destroy (shoot) feral dogs and cats on military ranges. He described the goal as maintaining the natural state of wilderness and that the brass considered predators like dogs and cats as unnatural.
there ARE millions of feral cats roaming the USA, killing millions of song birds every year. Why are we letting that happen? Because cat people are totally unrealistic and rather difficult to deal with
so, step one is to allow unrestricted hunting of cat people? Just asking, i'm full of questions
Prediction: it won't work. Australia has been going after cats and bunny rabbits for decades.
Because cat people with OUTDOOR cats are totally unrealistic and rather difficult to deal with!
FIFY. Indoor cats generally only kill insects that get in the house.
Love cats, have had them as pets most of my life, and I don't have any problem with what Australia is doing. From what I have read the spread of the cats followed the spread of mice/rats (which came with the immigrant ships) which followed the grain that the settlers planted. So they had better be prepared for a spike in the mouse/rat populations.
In our neighborhood birds - specifically raptors like eagles and hawks - are known to consume small dogs and cats so there is some reverse/payback in some cases.
It’s interesting how many conversations break down to the natural state of the environment and who gets to define it.
We’ve even developed specialized words like habitat and climate change to force others to accept our definitions and authority.
What eats cats?
Cats shouldn't be outdoors because they are a threat to nature. They shouldn't be indoors either because that's gross.
And per the Jonathan Franzen excerpt, cats are an engineered species. They are not part of nature.
“What eats cats?”
Coyotes, and we have plenty in Phoenix.
Change is afoot in the cat zeitgeist. Just last week took my kids to a nature center, and was surprised to see how frank the anti-cat propaganda has become. There was the explicit: a big display on invasive, non-invasive, non-indigenous and indigenous species, with (formerly domesticated/feral) cats singled out as an invasive and non-indigenous species on the big wall. The subtle: a display on panthers, which explained both their ferocity and right afterwards how they had more in common genetically with house cats than with lions. The highly nuanced: the only other example with pictures and a lot of text of an invasive species was the lionfish. They'll get you on land and in the sea, those cats. Good thing they don't fly.
Environmentalists would also like to remove people, for similar reasons. They may be more successful at that in the short run. Perhaps in the future the world will be overrun with Mormons, Hasidic Jews, and Muslims.
Henry Asked, What eats cats?
Here's the complete list:
There was an old lady who swallowed a fly;
I don't know why she swallowed that fly, perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a spider;
It wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her!
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
There was an old lady who swallowed a bird;
How absurd to swallow a bird!
There was an old lady who swallowed a cat;
Imagine that! She swallowed a cat!
There was an old lady that swallowed a dog;
What a hog, to swallow a dog!
There was an old lady who swallowed a goat;
She just opened her throat and swallowed a goat!
There was an old lady who swallowed a cow;
I don't know how she swallowed a cow!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat,
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog,
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat,
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider;
That wriggled and jiggled and tickled inside her!
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly;
I don't know why she swallowed a fly - perhaps she'll die!
There was an old lady who swallowed a horse;
...She died, of course!
Well, the thing is,” Walter said, “small cats aren’t native to North America, and so our songbirds never evolved any defenses against them.
Now's their chance...
Environmentalists would also like to remove people, for similar reasons. They may be more successful at that in the short run. Perhaps in the future the world will be overrun with Mormons, Hasidic Jews, and Muslims.
chuck, those are kinds of people too, and mostly highly domesticated varieties.
lol, gilbar, passover is over.
"If there were millions of feral dogs roaming the USA in packs, attacking deer, turkey, water fowl, mammals like raccoons and opossums, and other game and native wildlife, you could be darn sure we would be hunting them down."
I don't know if there are millions, but this is a problem in the US and feral dogs are classified as pests and are shot by hunters to keep the number down. I have seen packs of dogs running a deer down from a tree stand.
Australia has wimpy animals due to lack of competition. New Zealand is even worse. The animals are like cars or radios built by socialists.
Check out the feral hog problem in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Arkansas. Also Germany.
This is certainly a specially [3b] charged subject.
How much do cats actually kill? Too damned much!
> Check out the feral hog problem in Texas
Not to mention feral deer. Yes, Bambi is a problem.
Anybody who thinks humans are the only animals who hurt for sport has never watched a cat.
Someone who turns his backyard into a bird sanctuary wonders why it becomes smorgasbord for cats? In my neighborhood we have a 'problem' with owls absconding with small dogs. We see our precious shih tzu as safely secured in our walled yard. The owl sees it as an easy lunch. Any time we mess with the natural order of things it presents problems. Not sayin' we shouldn't, just sayin'.
Two things I really hate, cats roaming wild and wind turbines. It’s too bad they both don’t kill polar bears, then we might have some action on it.
I don't know if there are millions, but this is a problem in the US and feral dogs are classified as pests and are shot by hunters to keep the number down. I have seen packs of dogs running a deer down from a tree stand.
Not sure about other states, but in WA, if you observe a dog chasing a deer, you have the legal right to kill it, even if it's someones pet.
Non-native people arguing against non-native animals. Classic.
Wouldn’t the birds be better off if we all stayed inside?
Found the bleached skull of a cat while mowing the lawn Saturday. Score one for the coyotes.
This is certainly a specially [3b] charged subject.
Heh. Don’t worry, Chuck will be along soon to turn it into a discussion of Trump’s lack of a healthcare plan and we’ll all fly away.
He’s the feral cat of the Althouse comment section.
By the way, as you can probably tell from my avatars, I enjoy cats. However all of the cats we've had over the years have been rescued directly from outdoors including these two a couple years ago. None of our cats ever go outside and almost none of them have shown any inclination to go back out once they've come inside.
We also fund a major inner city neighborhood TNR program so there won't be any more kittens. I am stunned how many people don't neuter their cats and allow them to roam, especially here in the country.
"Because cat people are totally unrealistic and rather difficult to deal with!"
No problems in my neighborhood with cats. The situation I'm most bothered by is the new-ish trend of people bringing their freakin' dogs with them in public places.
I dare you to say that at a party - if you don't want to be invited back, that is.
Packs of feral dogs killing deer? I wish! Here in deer infested NJ, that sounds like a feature, not a bug.
FWIW, I'd like to know what was killing song birds before cats were introduced. These systems are complicated. Did they really have no predators before the cat? Of course not. Foxes, racoons, lynx, bobcats, weasels, etc. all preyed on the same animals that cats prey upon, including song birds. But in suburbia we have greatly reduced or eliminated these predator species, or in the case of racoons, offered them easily accessed buffet meals in the form of our garbage cans.
On the upside, here in NJ, the coyote is making inroads, establishing territory sometimes uncomfortably close to humans and their pets. Cats and dogs are now "going missing" at increasing rates. Nature finds balance.
Its funny, our old cat brought us mostly small rodents, but occasionally he'd bring a baby rabbit or even a full grown pigeon. Our new cat brought us exclusively sparrows until she got to old and lazy. My mother-in-law's last pair of cats worked as a team and became squirrel specialists, she ended up with a creepy number of tails hanging in her shed. Funny how experience and inclination combine to make different cats different kinds of killing machines.
Facts about Cats -
Well, rocking Robin said "Oh mama please,
I'm begging you down on bended knees
I want to go down, want to jump and shout
Down on the corner where the cats hang out
Down on the corner where the cats hang out."
Her mama said "Rockin, you're making me cry,
But a robin's gotta rock, and a bird's gotta fly
But before you go jumping, go out rocking tonight
It's time that I tell you a few facts of life
It's time that I tell you a few facts of life
"Cats will be cats, and cats will be cruel
Cats can be callous, and cats can be cool
Cats will be cats, remember these words
Cats will be cats, and cats eat birds
Cats will be cats, and cats eat birds
"So Robin, get wise, use good sense,
And better brush up on your self defense
It's a jungle out there, and hunger strikes deep
Better take care, better watch where you sleep
Better take care, better watch where you sleep."
Well, rocking Robin said "Oh mama please,
I'm begging you down on bended knees
I want to go down, want to jump and shout
Down on the corner where the cats hang out
Down on the corner where the cats hang out."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFT-TQfCrGU
Voles and prairie dogs were killing the yard til we got a cat. But when she's dead, no more. I'll be too old to deal with pets anyway.
Fun fact: The group Timbuk3 who had the song "Facts about Cats" posted above was formed in Madison, Wisconsin and both are native Wisconsinites!
IIb said....and so our songbirds never evolved any defenses against them.
Now's their chance...
of course, the environmentalists will say that that Can't happen! on account of because evolution takes tens of thousands of generations, and There Just Isn't Time!
Meanwhile, how long did it take weeds to become roundup resistant? 20 years?
I wish the Aussies luck, but it's hard to imagine they'll be successful.
I was out in the Otago (New Zealand) countryside shooting rabbits with a property owner last year. Everywhere you walked you kicked up rabbits. There was so much rabbit shit, that's what you were actually walking on; you couldn't see the ground. Every Easter the nearby town of Alexandra has an Easter Bunny hunt.. The situation is hopeless.
The neighbor's cat comes in your yard and kills the birds and poops in your garden? Might I suggest getting some of that Aussie sausage. Or making its equivalent yourself. Don't talk to the neighbor - unnecessary and a waste.
“What eats cats?”
Think about it for a minute - one queen can produce maybe 16 kittens a year, and cats can potentially live maybe 20 years. Even, without the exponential growth factor, that is a potential 320 kittens in a lifetime. But factoring in the exponential growth factor, one cat can potentially generate millions of descendants during their lifetimes. What keeps that from happening? High mortality.
Back to the question - others here have mentioned owls and coyotes. Besides those, we also ve eagles bobcats, and wolves, and the latter implies that dog packs can predate against cats.
In the last five years we have seen a serious increase in the number of coyotes and bobcats in our neighborhood. Oh, and people having to run strings of lights under their cars at night to keep their cars safe from depredation.
Bunnies are rats with long ears.
Birds are rats with wings.
Rats are rats.
And Seagulls are evil.
I read some of these comments to my big orange cat Toby, and he just rolled over and went back to sleep.
Why are noisy (but tasty) little birds inherently more worthy to live than cats?
Asking for a friend.
Coyotes keep outdoor cats in control in Orange County. I haven't seen an outdoor cat in Tucson.
I understand songbirds are endangered in Britain due to cats and not enough, or no coyotes. Foxes might help there.
Our township has a problem with feral cats. A handful of property owners have to live with their back yards littered with feces. Their neighbors are feeding the feral cats, and colonies of up to 50 cats thrive in various neighborhoods.
We proposed a ban on feeding feral cats. Cat advocates (catvocates?) filled our meeting in protest. We told them we will hold off on an outright ban if they work on the problem. They support TNR: Trap, Neuter, Return. Yes, return them to the neighborhood. There is no where else to send them, and no one will condone killing them. Hoping this is a long-term solution.
This issue had evoked more passion than the new stormwater management fee people have to pay.
Let's not conflate two issues. All of the people that I know with outdoor cats have their cats fixed. So those cats hunt but don't breed. Feral cats obviously do both. In the past when I have lived near a clowder of feral cats there were groups that would trap the cats, get them fixed, and then release them back into the clowder.
All of my neighbors miss my last outdoor cat. Pretty sure that an eagle got him. The day before he disappeared I had an eagle sitting on my deck railing.
Don't get me started on the people who insist the government care for wild horses and burros.
Cats are crapping in our houses, and we're picking it up.
Did we lose a war? That's not America. That's not even Mexico!
-- Homer Simpson
> who hurt for sport has never watched a cat.
Also coyotes, dogs, and probably some predatory birds. I knew a rancher who was royally pissed that some coyote had gone through a flock of sheep and eviscerated them all. It wasn't like it needed more than one to eat on.
Our cat used to bring mice in through the cat door at our cabin and let them go so she could terrorize them again later.
Coyotes are a huge issue in So Ca, and keep the local cat and small dog population in check.
In LA County Animal Control does very limited trapping, till a person is attacked.
Trapping has to be done outside of public view, they are afraid of making the nightly news.
And coyotes have moved into urban areas. An abandoned lot in Compton makes a great home.
We also have a huge rabbit issue, the coyotes keep in check.
Our last cat probably got killed by a coyote. Cat seem to vary on their hunting instinct.
daskol said...
[...feral cats, lionfish...]
They'll get you on land and in the sea, those cats. Good thing they don't fly.
The Japanese name for a seagull is "umineko"... "sea cat".
Named so because the gull's cry is supposed to sound like a cat.
So they do fly, in other languages...
There are feral windmills, a blight on the environment, attacking millions of birds annually.
Feral cats kill and eat birds.
Fox in our yard will kill and eat feral cats. And birds. COyote across thee street do the same. Coyote and fox fill the same ecological niche- and generally their territories don't overlap.
The larger owls in our area will swoop down and eat feral cats. And smaller songbirds.
The falcons and hawks in our areas eat feral cats. And smaller birds.
Bobcats eat feral cats. And birds. Bur DEC tells us there are no bobcats in the area. They also tell us there are no wolves, so the wolves I've seen don't really exist...
There are lots of other animals that eat songbirds. And if you kill all the feral cats, a hopeless task, there'll be something else that comes along to fill their ecological niche. I live in the country. Our cat is an indoor cat. Our neighbors have barn cats- that is, feral cats. Most country people do. During the summer I get a nest of them in my clump of pine trees next to my driveway. They live in close proximity to us humans, but are extremely wary if we approach. They keep the rodent population down. They don't bother the grain and feed. And unlike bobcats, fox, coyote, wolves- they're not a danger to children and infants.
We have had only indoor cats. There is a term for outdoor cats: "coyote kibble."
“Bobcats eat feral cats. And birds. Bur DEC tells us there are no bobcats in the area. They also tell us there are no wolves, so the wolves I've seen don't really exist...”
We have both in the county, but the latter don’t come into town. Yet. Not sure if cats would be worth attacking for wolves, and esp the larger Canadian gray wolves that were brought in to reintroduce wolves to the lower 48. The problem is the amount of energy required versus the return in calories. But then most people didn’t think that they predated on mice, and Farley Mowat (in “Never Cry Wolf”) proved that false.
We just brought our indoor cat back from our MT vet Sat from having him declawed (our AZ vet neutered him, but refused to declaw him). We talked with the MT vet about what animals predate on cats here. His list didn’t include wolves, but started with owls, eagles, coyotes, foxes, and bobcats. He had sewn up my partner’s previous cat, better than 20 years ago, after it had been “owled”. He liked my new word. Here though eagles are probably more of a threat - we have a big nest right on the other side of the hill, maybe 1/4 mile away. Not sure if it was eagles or maybe hawks, but saw a group of maybe a half dozen raptors soaring in a big circle maybe a mile from here yesterday. And we do have coyotes through the neighborhood, but not with any frequency.
The reason that this is an indoor cat is that “owling” a couple decades ago. It happened on their ranch five miles down river from us, but was only prevented from being completed by the German Shepherd that the cat slept with every night intervening. Not only was the cat fairly well shredded, the vet bill was several thousand dollars(which maybe why our MT vet remembered it), and the cat then had the effrontery of running away at his first opportunity when he got back to PHX. I think that our cat could safely run the neighborhood back in AZ, but not here, esp without a large dog to protect him. And we don’t have the half section that they have at the ranch for a dog to run on, but rather a tiny city lot - so no dog. It was a running battle keeping the cat indoors in AZ. He is very fast, bright, and sneaky. Here, he got out a week ago with me being the culprit. Thought that he was too involved in recuperating to try a bolt to freedom. Thought we had another couple days - he still has the bandages on one rear foot. Nope. This time my partner was at fault. And then she almost did it again while I was typing this, leaving the door wide open, figuring it was too cold for him to get up. Doesn’t work that way.
Down here in Mississippi one large landowner was convinced feral cats were destroying his wild turkey population. He injected strychnine into chicken eggs and then surreptitiously placed the poisoned eggs into as many turkey nests as he could find.
A month or so later the woods were littered with dead raccoon carcasses, and the next year the turkey hunting was awesome!!!
when the GND wind turbines are grinding up our feathered friends,
Sudden Avian Death Syndrome will no longer be discussed.
Our cat used to bring mice in through the cat door at our cabin and let them go so she could terrorize them again later.
They recycle!!
I have a cat, a dog, and a bird. My cat stays inside, partly to stop what I know would be his murderous tendencies...and also to prevent him from being harmed or killed by something outside. My neighbors let their cats do whatever, and I am always seeing "lost cat" posters and dead cats by the side of the road. Keep them inside.
In the mountains here people don't get cats as the coyotes eat them.
In suburbia it seems to me that a dog or a good fence with a suitable topping would discourage cats.
I had a feral cat start to hang around the RV port. I encouraged it to stay by giving it just a little bit of cat food - he/she supplemented the diet with pack rats and mice keeping them out of the RV engine bay where one pack rat built a nest and damaged some wires. I'd catch the cat on the security camera every other night or so. As long as it was around, no rodents. Then one night I got a bob cat on the security camera. No more cat. And the rats are back. Trapping is ok, but for every four rats I trap on average, I also get a bird. Once I had a hawk trying to get a pack rat caught in a glue trap. No more glue traps for me after that. I'd hate to glue a hawk.
I'm thoroughly convinced that most cat people are in the throes of toxoplasmosis induced mental illness. "They" say that there is no link between the two, but who are you gonna believe? Your damned eyes or the crazy cat lady who feeds a feral cat clowder that she calls a "colony". Essentially using other peoples property to hoard animals that are too feral to handle and often so heavily diseased that they would be euthanized were they a pet.
Similarly, the people who say cats occupy an ecological niche, in North America and the Antipodes, they absolutely do not. They disrupt the native fauna and interfere with native predators. Pretending they do some sort of service to nature by keeping the rodent population down is absolute bollocks. Leave that to the snakes and birds of prey. Both of which would exist in higher numbers were cats not interfering in the environment.
House cats are also mostly useless at actually stopping mice and especially rats. Sure, they might kill a few for fun, but Meow Mix is far more appetizing than messing with an ill-tempered 12 inch rat that weighs a couple of pounds.
DRP, yours was the comment I went down the whole thread looking for: the effect of toxoplasmosis on so-called "cat people." How else can we explain the willingness of some multiple-cat-owners to allow cats to wander freely in food preparation surfaces, for instance? Defending cats' "right" to hunt not for subsistence but for sheer fun (as also brought out above - the fact that an unsuccessful hunting "outdoor cat," not feral, isn't going to starve) could also be related.
I don't know how to explain the tendency of some dog owners to French kiss their dogs, though. I love my dog, but her mouth and mine do not meet.
I don't get the defense of *feral* cats at all. (I can at least sympathize with the defense of owned cats, even if I disagree with the decision to let them outside. We humans love pets and want them to be happy.) That said, trying to control the environment, even on a limited scale, is terribly fraught.
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