Johnston, who has never wrestled a girl since he picked up the sport in seventh grade, has said that the physical aggression required in wrestling isn’t something he’s comfortable showing toward a girl, on or off the mat....Jaslynn Gallegos, the girl to whom he forfeited, said, "My whole thing is that I’m not a girl wrestler; I’m just a wrestler. So it kind of doesn’t hurt my feelings, but I do kind of take it to heart."
"I don’t think that I am looking at them as not equal...I am saying that they are women and that is different than being men, because I do believe that men and women are different and we are made differently. But I still believe that women are of equal value to men....”
The most-up-voted comment is: "I will disagree with him all day long and still have MAD PROPS for his conviction and dedication to his personal beliefs. He handled the situation with dignity and so did the young lady involved. Perhaps there is hope for a congenial society."
Posts
104 comments:
Amazing grace. Men are made to guard women, protect and romance them.
This whole gender blur has gotten out of hand.
Wrestling is a fight to kill an opponent
Where is Andy Kaufman?
He was "intergender wrestling champion"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uQlB99WCuk - Andy Kaufman wrestles a 327 pound woman
Perhaps there is hope for a congenial society.
Not if Democrats and the media have their way.
I can't speak to adult wrestling. But I don't think there's anything wrong with mixed judo, jiu jitsu or karate classes for girls and boys.
There was some movie where a girl (wresting coach's daughter) beat a boy in some meet and the girl congratulated the boy for his courage in wresting a girl - most boys won't do that. The danger being of losing to her.
If only they would say the same about Masterpiece Cakeshop.
Losing to a girl in tennis isn't bad for a boy - it's a skill game at kid level, not a strength game. Wrestling presents itself as a strength game, even though skill actually counts. Bigger risk to the boy.
Male and female sex, masculine and feminine gender, physiological, mental, and social differences.
The next generation of Bolivian women wrestlers fight to keep sport alive
February 27, 2019
Veteran cholita wrestler Jennifer Dos Caras, 45, competes in the ring with Randy Four in El Alto, Bolivia, Jan. 21, 2019. The sport, known by the English-derived name catchascan, has delighted foreign tourists and photographers for years while building a sense of pride among indigenous women.
Juan Karita/AP
(18 slides of Bolivian women wrestling that you probably haven't seen before.)
https://nypost.com/2019/02/27/the-next-generation-of-bolivian-women-wrestlers-fight-to-keep-sport-alive/slide-1/
"Perhaps there is hope for a congenial society."
That Post commenter might not want to read most of the other comments.
Wrestling with an attractive female = fun
Wrestling with an unattractive female = not fun
Wrestling with an unattractive female wrestler in a competition to which you've devoted many hours of tears and sweat = probably a bit confusing.
The gender-bending by the Left in this country is batshit crazy. They really believe there are no functional differences between men and women.
"Lets's go to war together, let's go to the bathroom together, let's wrestle together."
"Umm. That doesn't quite work for me"
"You sexist pig!"
I can't speak to adult wrestling. But I don't think there's anything wrong with mixed judo, jiu jitsu or karate classes for girls and boys.
Martial arts classes and sparring are different than competition. I have no problem with the idea of a girls sparring with a boy in class, especially if the focus is more on self-defense than sport.
Two words: mud wrestling.
106 lbs class in hs wrestling????He must look like a skeleton.
Wow, I was on a wrestling team in HS, and I would've pinned the bitch to the mat.
Wrestling teams have weight categories, and so a 110-120 lbs. girl could probably get a spot, since they wouldn't be many 110-120 boys around. On our team, the 2 lightest weight categories were filled by guys who had Zero competition.
Given the difference in upper body strength, you be hard pressed to find a 16 y/o girl who beat 16 y/o boys in the same weight class.
Couldn't tell which one was the boy in the video.
Yes, yes, by all means, let all congenially agree that the girl wrestler's dingbat comment was rationally equal to the boy's comment. Amen.
Having Girls on a boys wrestling team is like cutting off their balls. You can imagine the nasty remarks by other HS teams.
Its not what HS Boys want when they join a wrestling team.
On 2nd thought, the boys response to forfeit was the correct one. Win and its no big whoop. You beat a girl. Lose, and you're the butt of jokes.
Easy to see why a HS Boy would forfeit.
But I still believe that women are of equal value to men....”
Equal value? The true feminists will recognize this sop to equality and won't let him get away with it.
It's equal or better in all things or the war goes on!
So you're a 16 year old guy wresting a 15 year old girl and you grab her across the chest or put your arm between her legs because you're furiously trying to pin her - isn't that a little problematic. Wouldn't you be a teeny bit worried of suddenly being accused of sexual assault and having your life ruined?
I remember when John Candy wrestled a whole bunch of women in Stripes.
He was very respectful but they ganged up on him and were very mean.
This illustrates a problem with the obvious solution to the transgender subversion of women's sports, namely to create an "open' category in which anyone can compete, but then set aside exceptions for women-women, seniors, various disabled groups, etc. Would men want to compete against anyone in any thing?
If the wrestlers wore masks, like in Mexico, he wouldn't have known she was a girl.
Problem solved.
Bottom line - most men who have wrestled with their girlfriends or wives for fun use like 20% of their strength. Using 100% of your strength to pin a woman to the ground and make her say uncle or be powerless to move goes against everything good men are taught.
The young man is Anglican. Didn't expect that.
By all accounts he put a lot of thought into his decision over a year ago, and kept to his stance.
A girl made it to the state finals? Doesn't quite fit in with the "letting boys compete with girls will kill girl's sports" narrative.
The exception that proves the rule, I guess.
Wrestling is about strength in the grip,the shoulders, the neck-head, and the legs. Leverage moves are used to control the opponent before he controls you with his aggressive moves. The counters are instinctual after years of doing it.
From the article: "Johnston, who identifies as Christian "
Is that like identifying as male or female? The silly word choices these days, meant not to offend, I guess.
P.S. Ashley Madison is back.
A long time ago, some official should have said: "No, girls may not participate in wrestling. End of discussion."
It would be hard for most boys that age to actually do what was necessary to win such a match- it isn't easy to overcome 16 years of social programming. Even when it is an actual fight between two males, you will, more often than not, see half-hearted attempts to win.
"A girl made it to the state finals? Doesn't quite fit in with the "letting boys compete with girls will kill girl's sports" narrative."
In case you don't understand HS wrestling - they wrestle as a team. If you have 7 weight classes, you can have a weak sister at one of them and Still win.
That she was on a team that made it to the championship means nothing. It may also mean that she won a lot of matches by forfeit. Anybody who thinks In-shape HS Girls can regularly whip in-shape HS Boys -who are the same AGE and WEIGHT is a dumbshit.
Wrestling is a very intimate sport. Frankly, I have always found it somewhat icky. The weight classes, which apply in few other activities, sometimes produce odd outcomes where girls can compete with boys. But when we were a more mature society, less concerned with female "empowerment" (whatever that is), we did not allow it. I feel bad for the boy -- the girl is mouthpiece for adults -- but find a different activity.
They took his job!
Wrestling tehchniques come in handy when you're trying to stop a girl from tickling.
Where is Andy Kaufman?
Last I heard he was in the Underworld rolling a 327-pound woman up a mountain.
"Wrestling tehchniques come in handy when you're trying to stop a girl from tickling."
Why would you want to do that?
"Last I heard he was in the Underworld rolling a 327-pound woman up a mountain."
Spending an eternity wrestling Jerry Lawler.
What happens when a female wrestler makes a complaint that he touched her inappropriately? I was touched in my breast area and genital area. Does he get charged as a sex offender?
rcocean, that's not the impression I got from the article at all. They are clearly competing as individuals on the brackets, not as an entire team. In Michigan we have team finals, where your entire team competes, and individual finals, where you compete on your own. This sounds like Colorado's version of the latter.
The article includes pictures of her celebrating pinning a boy to take 5th place in the tournament, so she is obviously capable of competing at a fairly high level. Though it would be interesting to know how many forfeits she got -- fatigue is a fairly major component of a big tournament, and if she got more than one forfeit it could easily be an advantage for her. It does feel like they are leaving out major portions of the story.
One should not be in such close contact with someone of the opposite sex unless you are getting ready to have sex. It would be impossible to wrestle with a woman and not touch her in places that are sexual.
But I don't think there's anything wrong with mixed judo, jiu jitsu or karate classes for girls and boys.
"Classes" are not competitions.
Just read more carefully -- the girls placed 4th and 5th. For some reason the WP article (as I read it) focused on the girl who got 5th. If I understand Tribune article correctly, they each only had the one forfeit, both to the kid the WP article is discussing.
It makes the WP article feel ... weird? They're making it out like the girls are suffering discrimination, but the league and the tournament are doing everything in their favor here. What could they do differently? Kick the boy out of the sport because he doesn't want to wrestle girls?
Wrestling is the gayest sport. Judo and jujitsu are wrestling, despite the Japanese names, but less gay, because they wear clothing, even if the clothing is pajamas.
Boys and girls should not compete in wrestling. Is that so difficult to understand? It has nothing to do with sexism. The system that allowed the issue to come up is fouled up. As is usually the case, the adults f*ck up, and the kids pay the price.
It would be impossible to wrestle with a woman and not touch her in places that are sexual.
It's not erotic. You're thinking with your eyes.
The Cutting Edge (1992) hockey player taking up doubles skating, "You want me to put my hand where?"
My daughter notified me this morning that a woman was given a college football scholarship. :-(
Big Mike: "Not if Democrats and the media have their way."
Not if Democrats, their LLR lap poodles and the media have their way.
FIFY
The underlying assumption was that in a physical contest, this female was closely matched to this male.
But once they are in college, the automatic assumption will be that she was incapable of defending herself from unwanted sex.
Reminds me of the Iranian athletes who default rather than compete against Israelis. (Hitchens was right about religion.)
I wrestled in High School, and there was a fairly successful girl wrestler in the lowest weight class division of 103 lbs. She was very flexible and as a result very hard to pin. However I will say that she did seem to get a fair amount of favoritism from the refs. In wrestling, by rule each wrestler is required to always try to take down their opponent when they are in n neutral position, pin their opponent when on top, or escape from their opponent when on the bottom. If you don't do this in the eyes of the ref you get called with a penalty , stalling. The refs seemed very quick to call stalling on her opponents and almost never called it on her.
@Drago, I accept that as a friendly amendment.
What if his little cheerleader gets all enthusiastic and does a standing cheer. I don't know how you could avoid that at 16. I had a boner every 10 minutes in high school, and didn't need to be in full body contact with a girl to get there.
It's simply unfair to the boy. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain. It's just the opposite for her. That's not really fair competition or sportsmanship. There are so many things that can go wrong for him. It's just not worth it, and he has the added negative of violating his own standards to do what he loves, because of what? So much today is designed to support women and marginalize men. Nice equality you got there.
Bagoh20 finally got there: the public boner embarrassment factor.
" The refs seemed very quick to call stalling on her opponents and almost never called it on her."
This difference persists into adulthood.
"Vision Quest" was a good movie 35 years ago about high school wrestling. Women were the sex objects of the wrestlers, not the wrestlers.
Some of the commenters have actual knowledge as freestyle wrestlers vs those that think of UHF band "wrestling" or Andy Kaufman-style throwbacks. If you have any dignity as a man, you can't treat a female opponent the same way as a male. If women want to wrestle, then wrestle women as a sport, just as women rowers compete against other women and not men. This type of cross-sex invasion will ultimately result in the destruction of women's sports that has taken 50+ years to establish in schools and in amateur athletics. Nice job, libs...
In schoolboy wrestling you are constantly in close proximity to the other persons crotch and chest. Fireman's carry = crook of the elbow in the crotch. Any takedown shot to the legs = head in crotch. Most riding moves = crotch to buttocks. A lot of pinning combinations = face to chest. I wrestled through high school into college and never wrestled a female although they were out there, but it's easy to see why he forfeited even at the state level.
Wouldn’t this kind of intergender competition be an example of “normalizing” male-on-female violence? He’s absolutely right. Liberals blather on about this or that “normalizing” bad things, and here we are with a real reason to be concerned about a real social pathology.
But you know, “grrrrrl power!” and all that.
@stevew,
P.S. Ashley Madison is back.
Does she "identify as Christian" too?
When I graduated HS, I was 5'3", 105 lbs. I would have wrestled in the lightest weight class. I was often asked to try out, because finding someone as small as me was difficult. In gym class, I only once ever beat anyone wrestling. In my class, there were maybe 4 girls my size (3 of them cheerleaders). I think I could've beaten them, if I could survive my shyness and actually wrestle them.
Once upon a time long long ago our HS hygiene teacher mentioned the possibility of co-ed classes. One wag who shall remain nameless said “That’s cool Coach, we can get the feel of things” The dean of boys was not amused.
Would he wrestle a transgender male to female?
There comes a time when simply have to say, "Fine." Give them what they said they want. And teach them a lesson by breaking her in two.
Out here in California the boys wrestle the boys and the girls wrestle the girls.
In other news...
Apparently the IOC will allow athletes to compete as whichever "gender" they "identify as" in the future.
Well, so much for the Olympics. I wonder what the 5th century BCE Greeks would have thought of that?
The left irreversibly ruins everything that it comes into contact with. It's sort of like a civilizational prion disease.
It is not a question of risk. At 106 pounds I suspect that a girl might have a chance to defeat a young boy. That said, I admire the young man. He was raised with a set of beliefs about respect for the opposite sex, and he's sticking with them.
Interesting times, between Martina crying foul over a sport where she and Billie Jean King made forceful, mediatic points in proving their supremacy over males allowing males to compete as females … and males not wanting to "show force" on women trained similarly to them in another sport that's had a strong female participation for at least a few decades, now.
Many boys just don't want to put their hand in an unknown girl's crotch in such a public forum. Moves like switches, grapevines, butt drags, high crotches...
Most of the comments above are dumb. rhhardin leads the charge.
rcocean,
That is absolutely not how it works in WA state high school wrestling.
Once you get to the tournaments, starting right with the league meet, wrestlers advance as individuals.
A progressive conflation of male and female sexes, masculine and feminine genders, respectively, and a departure from social standards designed to highlight our complementary Nature.
MrDisco and Birkel are asking important questions. Fundamentally, wrestling is about creating a situation in which your opponent feels pain unless he (she) moves in the way that causes him (her) to lose points (or be pinned). But it is all about causing pain, so you can't really complain that your opponent caused pain. If I were an "asshole boy wrestler" entered in a match with a girl, I would grab at her breasts and her crotch area in order to cause pain (and get her to move in such a way that I earned points, or pinned her). At least, I wouldn't say that such actions are inappropriate or criminal. So here is a "not asshole" boy wrestler who says, "those actions are inappropriate and wrong," but I refuse to compete without having the full array of legal moves available. That seems logically and morally consistent to me. And people who support the girl's right to compete either need to explicitly support "those kinds of moves should be allowed and encouraged," or need to explicitly say "girls should not compete". Or (I guess) need to say explicitly, "We want to change the nature of the sport of wrestling from what it has been for 1000s of years to something new which we will also insist on calling 'wrestling'." Wouldn't it make sense to continue to have a sport of (male) "wrestling" using the rules that have always existed, and introduce a new sport (suggestion-- let's call it "nestling") in which both boys and girls compete, and in which certain kinds of touching ("moves") are prohibited?
If "the IOC will allow athletes to compete as whichever "gender" they "identify as" in the future", then in the interest of full disclosure they ought to go back to having the athletes compete naked. The fans can judge whether the contestants' gender identity is correct.
Mockturtle@6:49PM I saw that. The girl was on a junior college roster for two years. First year she was injured and did not play. Second year she played (amount of playing time not disclosed) and made 3 tackles the entire year. I can't imagine the scenario where a guy plays two years of junior college ball, totals 3 tackles in two years, and gets a scholarship for that. And I am gonna guess that there are not an unlimited number of scholarships available, so the school decided to award an athletic scholarship for political reasons, and some boy out there won't be going to that school because of it. FYI, she is a position player,a defensive back I believe, not a kicker or punter, so that is not the reason for meagre stat line.
Phidippus laments: The left irreversibly ruins everything that it comes into contact with.
They really do. They are why we can't have nice things.
It's not erotic. You're thinking with your eyes.
Fortunately, high school boys are legendary for having mental and physical control over their boners at all times.
There were trees I could romance when I was that age.
The Left is being guided by Satan himself.
Wrestling is the gayest sport. Judo and jujitsu are wrestling, despite the Japanese names, but less gay, because they wear clothing, even if the clothing is pajamas.
They wear the required uniform!
Tights.
Juvenile coed wrestling is is not consonant with human nature. I think actual human nature is immutable, unlike the PC mob.
bagoh20 said...What if his little cheerleader gets all enthusiastic and does a standing cheer. I don't know how you could avoid that at 16.
--
The whole scenario as described by the kid might prove quite the formidable anti-arousal formula. Also..the self-selection involved would likely make that scenario a bit more..err..less likely, the likelihood and public acceptance likely inversely proportional to typical hetero attraction.
FWIW, back in the late 70's I was in middle school with an older brother who wrestled in high school. I took some basic wrestling classes and went to the only competition available at that age, a regional tournament.
Many of us boys noted a girl competing in our weight class.
There was no pre-discussion or prior knowledge of this...kids totally on their own back then. I was oh so glad not to have been paired with her for that dance.
I recall when I was twelve, being invited, or more accurately taunted, to have a wrestle by a 14 year old girl, a friend of my sister. Although she was very pretty (and later turned into a stunning young woman), I didn't think of it in a sexual way (until a year or two later, when I thought - you dumb ass, why didn't you keep it going for half an hour?) I remember thinking that I'd beat her easily - she was a perfectly fit, athletic, non scrawny girl, taller than me, but it seemed to me obvious that I'd beat her easily - cos girl. And then I remember thinking, when we started, whoa she's much stronger than I thought she'd be. Of course when I realised that I incrested my effort from 50% to 100% and pinned her in about three seconds. I thought "Yay! I wim !" as I sat on her middle holding her wrists to the floor. Clueless child.
I had to wrestle a girl in high school. These were team matches so in small school it is all about matchups with stronger wrestlers sometimes moving up weight classes to help the team. There was a wrestler one weight below me and we both went to state the year previous and if the other team had any shot of beating us he would have had to jump up and some other wrestlers would have to jump up so we had one kid drink a shitload of juice in order to cover a weight if they pulled some shenanigans. It was a bit of a shock that they didn’t do anything crazy jumping people around but instead had a girl at my weight.
I was at 129 pounds. She was attractive and better than you would think. But it still was no match. Even though I won it was ackward. My go to takedowns we’re the high crotch and front headlock. It was a particularly unhappy variation of the front headlock that relied on pressure to the carroted artery. I ended up doing a double leg and using a double arm bar. Poor choice as her shoulders were more flexible than most. It almost made it out of the first round.
It was just ackward. There was no way I could win even though I won. Not everyone at the age of 14-18 can deal with that and losing to a girl would be a defining moment for a boy that age.
It should not happen.
The whole point of wrestling is to violently dominate your opponent in order to render them utterly helpless.I was raised to NEVER treat a girl that way.You'd think in our MeToo age,that wouldn't be so hard to understand.
Rcocean, I wrestled in high school. You're quite wrong. In tournaments, winners advance, losers do not. The team ranks against other teams based on the performance of individuals, but losing individuals do not advance just because the team overall does well.
Where did you get this strange notion?
I wanted to wrestle and take shop class instead of home ec. Sewing in particular seemed tedious to me.
Since it was the Seventies, I was allowed to do these things, but nobody made a big deal out of it.
I learned interesting things, mostly not about gender. I saw how shop class was the place where the young men who weren't college bound were being mentored and felt at home and excelled, which everyone needs. I was careful to never intrude on their sense of ownership and always asked them for help and advice, since most of them knew more than I did. I ended up with friends I'd never meet in AP English and skills I have used to support myself on and off between academic and political work -- and a better understanding of how to be a good teacher of male students.
I loved wrestling but the boys hated wrestling girls. It embarrassed them and we were hormonal adolescents and it was just not fair of me to impose myself on them. I stopped and only did it in gym class when there was another girl.
By invading male spaces, I learned early how vital those spaces are for male bonding and emotional growth. And how damaging it is that they are under attack.
OTOH, I'm old enough to have been banned from competing cross country because females weren't yet allowed to run a whole three miles in school races. In 1979. I challenged that rule because it was absurd and actually discriminatory, and I also lost out on much-needed scholarship chances not only because they almost all went for boys but also because our school wouldn't give the new female cross country team official uniforms needed to compete, and we were not allowed to make our own. So Title 9 helped there, though simple fairness and common sense would have been the far better choice.
I think about that, too, whenever I work on legislation, 90% of which could be avoided with simple fairness and common sense. I regret not learning to sew. Boys need male spaces, and sewing is hard.
90% of which could be avoided with simple fairness and common sense
Decision-making in bureaucracies keeps getting pushed upward, but the top people didn't learn good judgment when they were lower on the totem pole, so they fall back on rules, procedures, and judges, and we know how nonsensical they can be.
I've been watching a lot of recent British cop shows, and it's amazing how rule-bound they are. Specialists or certifications are required for every task out of the ordinary.
Boy or girl, the sport of wrestling isn't for everyone. Obviously. Meanwhile, it would be a shame if we were to return to many of the cultural norms of the 40's and 50's that artificially protected boys from the risks of losing to girls in the fair open competition of sports, art, jobs, shop class and home economics.
We had several female wrestlers in the state when I was in high school. One was a former cheerleader who wrestled in the 98 pound weight class. A total stunner as I recall. Our 98 pounder was the son of a former pro wrestler and was raised in a ranching community where women are treated respectfully and as equal contributors to daily life. As a wrestler he outclassed her in every way imaginable. He was also a pale ginger whose white skin was a bright red the entire time. He was utterly mortified. I myself just missed wrestling a girl from one of the reservation schools, Lodge Grass maybe, at a tournament. I was wrestling 185 and would have thought myself insulated if the chance of such a thing had occurred to me at all.
rcocean said...
In case you don't understand HS wrestling - they wrestle as a team. If you have 7 weight classes, you can have a weak sister at one of them and Still win.
That's not how it works. Are you sure you weren't on the basketball team?
The fact that a HS boy losing to a girl in wrestling would be devastating is a feature, not a bug, for the left.
When I was in HS we had what was called "Leaders" gym. It was made up guys and girls who played on the sports teams. Like they could compete together or something. The first sport that they had us do was volleyball...I'm sure because the girls had a team and the boys didn't. Well, a couple spiked balls to the face and crying girls later and that was the end of that shit.
The fact that a HS boy losing to a girl in wrestling would be devastating is a feature, not a bug, for the left.
Clearly quite a number of boys lost to some girls in Colorado; the devastation on the ground appears contained.
We had a girl on my judo team when I was in Jr High. She was very good, a natural five sport athlete, who ended up coaching college lacrosse. It never bothered me to lose to her, because she was my older sister (Irish twin) who beat me in everything, on and off the mat, and still does.
I did Judo in college. While it did sometimes get uncomfortable doing matwork with girls, I never bowed out and I like to think we both enjoyed it.
I wrestled with a cheerleader once. Three fall to a finish, no holds barred. No spectators. We both won.
" I had a boner every 10 minutes in high school"
I DIDN'T have a boner for about 10 minutes in all of high school. Mini skirts.... sigh.
Our youngest wrestled in high school. It never came to that, but I'd wager he could NOT have used certain moves on a female if he'd even gotten on the mat with her.
"Vision Quest" was a good movie 35 years ago about high school wrestling. Women were the sex objects of the wrestlers, not the wrestlers.
Good flick. Holds up well.
Filmed in Spokane. Linda Florentino never looked better. Great soundtrack.
Matthew Modine came off as a pretty convincing wrestler ... for someone who'd never taken up the sport before being cast.
Dunno what will happen if a girl wrestler is a "free bleeder".
I wrestled in high school. It gets pretty personal. No way to avoid the girl's privates and boobs. When you start down on the mat in fact, one hand is placed approximately where the boob is. This isn't a problem to people?
Compelling boys to wrestle girls (or forfeit) is unfair to boys and basically anti-boy. But to be pro-girl and anti-boy are two sides of the same coin. This story illustrates that perfectly.
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