How is it false? What, specifically, is inaccurate? https://t.co/M2243TzqSL
— Chris Cillizza (@CillizzaCNN) February 20, 2019
২০ ফেব্রুয়ারী, ২০১৯
That was my question too.
এতে সদস্যতা:
মন্তব্যগুলি পোস্ট করুন (Atom)
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১৩০টি মন্তব্য:
Trump gets it into the news. The left will be talking about it.
It's good that a sense of humor has come back into politics.
The NYT. Some people see an enemy of the people, and others see a dumpster fire.
Is Cillizza really that thick?
Huh? This is so vague it’s meaningless. What reporting is Trump talking about? How can you agree or disagree without knowing? Are you saying nothing in the NYT is false? Then you are wrong.
Trump is wrong. Fake news requires news. This article is mostly innuendo and at the best opinion by the authors. The primary complaint seems to be that Trump has not acted as the authors think he should have. It seems to be laced with statements like "As president, Mr Trump has ultimate authority over information that passes through the government, but his interventions are unusual."
He obviously just meant in general.
There's no shortage of examples of NYT behaving in very biased, dishonest, and unbjective ways. For some specific examples, here's Newbusters page for the NYT.
Trump is more direct saying “enemy of the people” than the subtle othering implicit in the new, weaponized used use of “our” to say us (“the people”) versus them (“the enemy”).
“Our Democracy.” “Our public servants.” Etc.
“Our press.” “Our journalist.” “Our media!”
"Huh? This is so vague it’s meaningless. What reporting is Trump talking about?"
If I understand my Scott Adams, this is called, "thinking past the sale."
Trump likes to paint targets in the air, which the media personalities can't resist shooting at.
Cilizza and Acosta are Trump stalkers.
The NYT's premise that the U.S. is a hyper-bigoted society is completely false.
The U.S. is the fairest and least bigoted society in human history.
So, everything the NYT prints, all based on this false premise, is a lie.
Even the NYT's sports pages are premised on this lie.
The working assumption of every newspaper that I read is that the plague of bigotry in the U.S. is so severe that every man, woman and child is obligated to engage in a daily struggle to reveal, denounce and banish this bigotry.
Every part of this is a lie.
This assumption is now so transparent to newspaper writers that they never question it.
Or DaTrump has some information that we don’t have. The stuff coming out the week is the same information that has been out and ignored by the NYT for years.They cover up information by running fictional narratives about what is not true...and have always gottenaway with it pre-Trump the tweeter.
This is what he wants his followers to think, he’s confident that it needs no explanation, his followers will fall in line, at least most of them. Try not to be his follower, try to think for yourself again.
Trump just having fun with the Times.
He’s done a good job highlighting that the media and other fine institutions are as full of shit as he is.
Calling them Ememy of The People is just mocking them. He’s saying don’t take them or me seriously.
Cillizza is taking Trump, The Times, and himself seriously. Why he’s a rube.
DougWeber said Trump is wrong. Fake news requires news. This article is mostly innuendo and at the best opinion by the authors
I think that Trump is correct in that opinions expressed by the writer do not constitute actual news. If you present your opinions and conclusions as being FACTS and as being newsworthy, then it is fake.
Opinions are not factual News. Fake.
I just explained it, Inga.
The explanation is quite transparent and easily seen.
The anti-bigotry crusade is a poison. Bitter, vicious, evil leftists like you continue to cling to it. You're possessed by this demon.
The problem is you. You're absolutely vicious and evil.
Having a twitter feed is like having a mud wrestling pit in the back yard. People, whoever they are, say the darndest things out there. Presidents, prime ministers, actors, journalists, regular folks. The standards for backing up claims made at the mud wrestling pit are not high. Nor should they be. It's just the mud wrestling pit for God's sake.
Here is an example.
Fact: Trump ate three Egg McMuffins for Breakfast today. [not an actual fact...I made that up]
Opinion: By eating THREE fat filled heart attack inducing Egg McMuffins produced by the giant corporate firm of McDonald's, Trump is supporting not only the eeeeevil corporate conglomerates but also giving a green light to his stupid, uninformed supporters to deny the science of years of research into the connection between high cholesterol and heart attacks.
Then the Twitter storm of Trump encouraging heart attacks and is a puppet of the capitalist conglomerate...probably controlled by RUSSIA aaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!
“I just explained it, Inga.”
Um...no, you only want to think you did and expect people to take what you have to say as something worth considering. Trump didn’t focus on any one topic. You’re putting words in Trumps mouth, you’re hoping that’s what he meant.
Oddly, Inga, you don't dispute the logic of what I wrote.
That was to be expected.
We voted for Trump to put an end to your evil lie that the U.S. is a hyper-bigoted country. His attack on PC censorship was a major reason I (and every Trump voter) voted for him. That's why Trump was labeled as a bigot. To call out your lie is to be a bigot.
You're lying again in your response. You're an habitual, vicious liar. One of the worst, most evil I've encountered on the web. Even worse than Ritmo, because you mean it. Ritmo is just jerking off.
We don't have a bigotry moral problem in the U.S.
We have an Inga moral problem.
Trump tries to be vague so as to not have to answer in a specific fashion to his assertions, because he can’t do it. He can’t do it because he is usually lying outright or lying to try to cover his own misdeeds. When the press uncovers Trump’s misdeeds and reports on them he has by now so demonized them that his followers just fall in line behind him when he makes such bold assertions, without question.
Why don’t you question anymore? Have you lost that ability?
“It's just the mud wrestling pit for God's sake.”
Is that where the POTUS should be? Doesn’t he have something more urgent to do?
Let me say this again, Inga.
I voted for Trump to demonize the press, because they earned it.
Their continued lie (and yours) that bigotry is a serious problem in the U.S. deserves to be demonized because it is a lie.
You deserve to be demonized for lying like this. This is a serious, horrifying sin you're committing. It is false witness against your neighbor.
No, Inga, the most important domestic political issue facing us is ending your psychotic anti-bigotry crusade.
You're the problem.
Carlos slim’s New York Times is a propaganda outlet for a billionaire globalist who is losing money and power because Trump is closing down the crony loopholes he bought from the Bushes and Clintons.
He is losing power because Trump is listening to Americans and not to crony billionaires like him.
His propaganda outlet is an enemy of the American people.
You have a caste war problem. This has been going on for a long time, but has greatly intensified since one caste finally took complete control of the commanding heights of the bureaucracy and the economy, as a result of the "long march".
This means that they can suppress their opponents and other dissidents, and have served notice (through numerous examples made) that opposition to their rule is dangerous.
Left and right, of course, are now nearly irrelevant concepts.
Maybe Trump is seeing what it would be like to report like CNN.
Every article they wrote about the "attack" on Jussie was fake news.
Not "the alleged attack", it was the "we know it happened attack".
And it was total BS, and anyone with a functional brain knew it from the minute Jussie made his ludicrous claims.
"False in one thing, false in everything." Thank you Da Nang Dick!
Take one example from the article: Trump "rages" daily. That is false. It is also clueless.
Althouse, of course, was nice and reasonable, with her "that was my question too," the natural reaction when Trump dismisses a NYT article some might view as the same malicious BS as all the prior Trump articles, part of the ongoing MSM campaign, but that surely deserves a point-by-point rebuttal from the president, for that is how you ought to deal with objective journalists reporting objectively.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
Trump tries to be vague so as to not have to answer in a specific fashion to his assertions, because he can’t do it. He can’t do it because he is usually lying outright or lying to try to cover his own misdeeds. When the press uncovers Trump’s misdeeds and reports on them he has by now so demonized them that his followers just fall in line behind him when he makes such bold assertions, without question.
Why don’t you question anymore? Have you lost that ability?
This person believes Brett Kavanaugh is a rapist.
This person believes Scalise deserved to be shot because he supports the NRA.
This person believes the Covington kids are racist because they wore MAGA hats.
This person believes all Trump supporters are racist because Jussie Smollet was attacked by Trump supporters.
This person believes Trump is serving Russia because they have pictures of Trump paying hookers to pee on a bed Obama slept in.
This person is evil and believes everything Carlos Slim’s New York Times feeds her.
They are all enemies of freedom and our country as founded.
buwaya said...
You have a caste war problem. This has been going on for a long time, but has greatly intensified since one caste finally took complete control of the commanding heights of the bureaucracy and the economy, as a result of the "long march".
What they're going to discover is that, in a country with ~400 million firearms in private hands, there are no "commanding heights" that the peasants can't destroy
It's a feature of The Present Age. Many people from all walks of life think it does them good (whether that is true or not) to spend a little time in the mud wrestling pit that is twitter. I might have a cup of tea instead, but that is neither here nor there.
"Doesn’t he have something more urgent to do?"
Actually, no. The media bias is the greatest current danger to America, followed closely by the inherent bias of the education system.
Inga: "Try not to be his follower, try to think for yourself again."
Hoax dossier/ Kavanaugh led a decade long mass rape gang gal is lecturing us to think for ourselves!!
Lets pay close attention.
The answer to young Mr. Cilizza's question can be found in the second and third paragraphs of Saul Bellow's philosophically juvenile but talented novel Ravelstein (you can read those paragraphs for free using the "Look Inside" function at the Amazon website, you have to scroll past Gary Shteyngart's introduction).
In short, Trump is knowingly playing his haters for fools.
“All the News That's Fit to Print“
There’s your lie right there, Althouse.
Trump is the older sibling pushing the buttons of the younger ones. Chris Cilizza and the rest just can't manage to ignore his taunts. I am the eldest of six, so this mini drama amuses me.
The working assumption of every newspaper that I read is that the plague of bigotry in the U.S. is so severe that every man, woman and child is obligated to engage in a daily struggle to reveal, denounce and banish this bigotry.
Every part of this is a lie.
Shouting Tom is en fuego today. This is true, right-on and evergreen. He left out the corollating assumption that the Bad Orange Man is responsible for much of the turmoil encapsulated in their narrative.
buwaya said...
You have a caste war problem. This has been going on for a long time, but has greatly intensified since one caste finally took complete control of the commanding heights of the bureaucracy and the economy, as a result of the "long march".
GregP said...
What they're going to discover is that, in a country with ~400 million firearms in private hands, there are no "commanding heights" that the peasants can't destroy
This is the exact reason that the next big push by those who "think" they are in charge is to take away our guns and ammunition. If they disarm the peasants, then we are well and truly cooked.
Mr. Trump has painted the media with their own shite. This latest generalization is just a touch-up job. Well done, Mr. President.
Trump is the older sibling pushing the buttons of the younger ones. Chris Cilizza and the rest just can't manage to ignore his taunts. I am the eldest of six, so this mini drama amuses me.
As a younger sibling it took me many years to figure out why I had a visceral dislike for my oldest brother that hardly anything in my conscious memory could explain. I still don’t like him, even though as an adult he has never said a bad thing to me. But good for you!
"Try not to be his follower, try to think for yourself again."
That is the least self aware comment I have ever seen on this site, and remember, Gaffy posts here.
What ST @9:47 AM said. It's not even close.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
This is what he wants his followers to think, he’s confident that it needs no explanation, his followers will fall in line, at least most of them. Try not to be his follower, try to think for yourself again.
I just have to put this up again.
Inga is just so fucking stupid.
You have fallen for at least a dozen race hoaxes in the last 3 years. You still believe we are racists even though every one of these event has been a sham.
I think you know we aren't racist at some level. You just need the pretense for your will to power.
Evil is a possibility too.
"I still don’t like him, even though as an adult he has never said a bad thing to me. But good for you!"
Sorry to hear you don't have a good relationship with your brother.
At the risk of starting a "he started it" argument, I believe Trump behaves this way and says these things in response to the relentless attacks from the Left and the Press. Trump has been vilified and criticized and accused of all manner of bad things from the day he announced his candidacy. That he pushes back - even with harmless and innocuous tweets like the one featured in this post - seems to me to be fair play.
I think the fake news, which is undoubtedly intended falsely to persuade the country, is the insinuation that he continues to obstruct justice. This time, by telling Whitaker to put someone else in charge in New York. The Russia!!! fiasco will yield no impeachment fruit, so the story line is now obstruction.
Think of the NYT as admissible hearsay: It's not offered for the truth of the matter asserted. In fact, because there are no repercussions, the NYT can print damn near anything.
Left and right, of course, are now nearly irrelevant concepts.
Yes, what we have is a "barbell" shaped cultural alliance that has declared war on the middle.
"The Revolt Against the Masses" does a pretty good job of explaining it.
“The roots of American liberalism are not compassion but snobbery. So argues historian Fred Siegel in The Revolt Against the Masses. Siegel traces the development of liberalism from the cultural critics of the post WWI years to the gentry liberals today, and he shows how the common thread is scorn for middle-class Americans and for America itself.
Then along came Sinclair Lewis and George Babbitt, his middle class villain. Lewis spent time Working on Upton Sinclair's Socialist experiment.
This is not new. It is just being revived by people who know no history,.
Per DBQ & Greg P: Fully agreed.
While it is true that the Armed Forces have helicopters, automatic weapons, claymore mines, cluster bombs, etc., and we have only small arms, we also have a volunteer military. From what I've heard, these guys, by and large, are far more patriotic and grateful to be Americans than the average citizen (even not counting leftists). Will they fire on their fellow citizens, maybe even neighbors, to disarm them if ordered to do so?
My guess is, some will, most won't. And some of the officers who demand that such an order be obeyed will not live to see the next day.
I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here.
Shouting Thomas said...
The NYT's premise that the U.S. is a hyper-bigoted society is completely false.
The U.S. is the fairest and least bigoted society in human history.
So, everything the NYT prints, all based on this false premise, is a lie.
Even the NYT's sports pages are premised on this lie.
This is the core of the issue. Carlos Slim is trying to tear the social fabric of our country apart.
The NYT's is owned by a foreign billionaire who makes his money in the corrupt country of Mexico buying influence and actually oppressing poor people there. He has been a key figure in turning Mexico into a narco state staffed by corrupt politicians.
Carlos Slim is trying to turn the US into Mexico.
He is an enemy of our country and our people.
Why does CC want the president to do his work for him?
Is he that lazy?
@Seeing Red, don't you think that to ask the question is to answer it?
True....
Try not to be his follower, try to think for yourself again.
Inga has gone so far over the edge that she doesn't recognize that we do think for ourselves, and it's she who doesn't think for herself -- or at all, it sometimes appears.
Cillizza peddles fake news all the time.
The characterization of a person or group as an enemy of the people has been deployed by tyrants who pretend to represent the will of all to take down those they perceive to be a threat to their rule. It is an ignoble use of a public office in a democracy, particularly one as pluralistic as ours. Would be dictators from Robespierre to Lenin to Hitler to Mao relied upon this phrase and others like it to turn public opinion against their enemies and justify the use of state power to destroy them.
It may be doubtful that President Trump is aware of this history yet the context in which he deploys the phrase reflects, on its face, reflects a similar attitude. The comments demonstrate that most Althouse readers agree with his sentiments. In my mind, however, that does not merit the use of this framing by one who should represent all, regardless of their party or ideology. It is not funny, it is not insignificant and it is not appropriate.
cilizza is journalist, but even among that crew, he's not the sharpest tool in the drawer, sadly whitaker couldn't put this travismockasham away, in part because they dunked a bucket of mudsoil on him, and maybe he wasn't willing to
Inga apparently missed what Althouse wrote about liberal media conformists yesterday:
" [I was thinking] about the way liberals, including liberal media folk, talk to each other and feel emotional rewards for saying what they all say back and forth to each other. They become so immersed in this feeling of belonging that they don't even hear the things that are not the things that they've been saying back and forth to each other. And my question is: Why does that feel so good? Why doesn't that immersion feel like drowning? Why don't you want to surface into the air and be free — to think about everything, from any perspective, and to find out for yourself what is true and what is good? You are a human individual: Don't you want that?"
Inga eagerly swallows the shit fed to her by the liberal media and vomits it up here. She is what Jordan Peterson refers to as "the ideologically possessed."
Of course, she projects her own fanaticism onto others. She's utterly incapable of honesty.
"While it is true that the Armed Forces have helicopters, automatic weapons, claymore mines, cluster bombs, etc."
These are not relevant to at least the initial stages of revolutionary war. They didn't help the British against the IRA. In some ways they hurt. The true strategic problem in such a stage is the control of the population, which is only possible if the authorities can implement a fine-grained supervision of the people. Otherwise there is nothing to stop the insurrectionists from threatening or liquidating any pro-government people at any time, as they live among them. The guerrillas main asset is anonymity, posing as just another civilian.
As for weapons, the insurgents don't need much. Knives or concealable pistols, or extemporized weapons will do just fine, generally. They do not need to shoot it out with the security forces, indeed, that would be idiotic, unless some group is caught and has to go down fighting. But that is just going to be the result of desperation, a symbolic act, not a productive one. Their proper targets are the other sides unarmed people, not the military.
Unless the insurgents are actually quite unpopular (as the IRA was), the only solution here is concentration, rounding up the people into camps, or "strategic hamlets", or whatever the proper word is, limiting movement, tracking movement, imposing curfews, etc., essentially creating a prison-state for the duration.
This is feasible for an occupying power able to absorb the expense, that is, the economic collapse inherent in such a policy, as it is financed by a larger and unaffected economy. Its much less feasible if this has to be imposed on ones own economy. Who is going to finance the US prison-state?
Many a newspaper, including the NYT, use Yellowdog press methods. Insinuations, omissions, smears, or down right incorrect articles they know are incorrect.
This is what Trump is talking about. They lie quite often. Lie by omission, like by vague insinuations. 'Unnamed sources' that really have no source.
Yes they lie.
Plagiarizing Mary McCarthy: Every word on NYT is false, including ‘and’ and ‘but'.
Trump left out a word:
The failing New York Times reporting is false ...
I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here.
A veteran but long ago. Have spent about 8 years examining and interviewing applicants to the military.
In LA, about 20% of applicants to Army are Chinese nationals. I doubt they are intelligence agents since they have to go through extensive background checks and are becoming privates. They seem interested in citizenship, which they will get after completing honorably their enlistment. (unlike Philips who was a jailbird.) I think this is part of the crumbling of the Chinese communist regime.
The Americans, in LA and Phoenix, are mostly kids with patriotic ideas, or at least they express them. A few black applicants, which may represent problems with background check or low interest. The ones I have talked to are intent on getting their lives on track.
I think the political left will have trouble with enlisted ranks. They might do better with officers, especially female.
limiting movement, tracking movement, imposing curfews, etc., essentially creating a prison-state for the duration.
Kurt Schlicter's novels are about that. "Indian Country" is probably the best.
Blogger buwaya said... "As for weapons, the insurgents don't need much. Knives or concealable pistols, or extemporized weapons will do just fine, generally. They do not need to shoot it out with the security forces, indeed, that would be idiotic, unless some group is caught and has to go down fighting."
This is exactly right. Take it to the extreme - as some left wing dingbats have said - 'They have nuclear weapons!' (how would such weapons be deployed? The reality is, ones own government owning nuclear weapons, or any other 'mass destruction' weapon is of little concern under such circumstances).
Small groups of insurgents, lightly armed, can paralyze a larger, heavily armed and armored force.
The option the government has it to divide the populace...frighteningly, that's exactly what these leftists are doing, creating an us-them discord.
I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here.
@Phidippus, counting the military, the FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security, thee are probably fewer than 150,000 with specialized training in urban warfare. There are at least a hundred million people who own guns and know how to use them (way more people have bought a gun, but they'll be lucky not to shoot a toe off in a real armed confrontation). The numbers (700 to 1) are not on the side of government.
Out in Washington State there are sheriffs who say that they will refuse to obey gun confiscation orders. The lefties are pushing the line that the sheriffs are being ideological. I think the reality is that the sheriffs don't want their men to be killed trying to kick down a door to grab someone's guns.
One of the things drummed into our heads in Basic Combat Training all the way back during the Vietnam War was that "just following orders" is no defense in a court martial if one obeys an unlawful order. I think if the officers order troops to assault a private residence flying an American flag out front, they will balk.
And if you use a cluster bomb on me and my wife, you will kill at least eight Democrats living next door and across the street, not to mention seven young schoolchildren and two newborn babies.
well consider the case of nurga witte, nee monica, who had been an agent of the sepah for who knows how many years, in the air force intelligence billey, and apparently slipped out of the country, roughly around the time that snowden did,
the Russians have been rather ruthless in the Caucasus with their zachistas (search and destroy) and their filtration points, essentially open air pits, in which they hold and interrogate the insurgents in Chechnya and Dagestan,
"try to think for yourself again."
Says the resident dingbat whose only known skill is to scramble furiously for other people's thoughts to copy and paste.
"The working assumption of every newspaper that I read is that the plague of bigotry in the U.S. is so severe that every man, woman and child is obligated to engage in a daily struggle to reveal, denounce and banish this bigotry."
'Inga eagerly swallows the shit fed to her by the liberal media and vomits it up here. She is what Jordan Peterson refers to as "the ideologically possessed."'
This possession and it's use as virtue signaling allows many jerks and assholes to pose as "the good people". Which is why their complaints about how Trump talks about his foes ring hollow and are ignorable.
Pompous jerks and assholes complaining about Trump being a jerk asshole is simply schadenfreudelicious. The same jerks and asshole have ben calling good people 'racistsexistbigothomophobes' based on political disagreement for decades. Then they act shocked when those people elect someone willing to say "fuck you" to them out loud. It merely ups the entertainment value.
"Sinclair Lewis... spent time Working on Upton Sinclair's Socialist experiment."
Thanks, Michael. Now I'll NEVER be able to keep those two straight!
"I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here."
BCT was an exercise in diversity that your most highly paid university bureaucrat wishes they could forcibly engineer. Most were working class regardless of race and hailed from different sized places across the entire country including Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and The Virgin Islands. I served with Mormon farm kids from rural Idaho and recent immigrants from Togo and Morocco. They were in it because they wanted to serve and did so willingly and proudly. I can't think of a single enlisted soldier that would willingly turn their weapons on fellow citizens.
Most of the lower-level officers thought they were the smartest person in the room. One butter bar at my reserve unit used to carry around a copy of Nietzsche (look at me! I read hard books!) Some were just doing their duty they owed from their ROTC scholarship. None were particularly impressive.
one had a toxic distaste for bourgeouis habits, and then there was upton Sinclair, heh, lewis clearly saw lower middle class as leading to fascism, because reasons,
Regularly reporting incorrect “facts”, occasionally followed by corrections would seem to provide evidence. Moreover, anything published based on anonymous sources is subject to being branded as “false”. There is no actual evidence to the contrary beyond the assertions of the mediaswine whose bias renders them incredible.
well consider the case of nurga witte, nee monica,
She blew our Iranian networks and Chinese agents were blown by another traitor.
The NYT has published enormous numbers of stories and opinion pieces attacking the President and accusing him of collusion with Russia. In addition stories have been published accusing his supporters as group of anti-semitism, rape and racism. It is said by members of Congress that members of Catholic groups such as the Knights of Columbus are unfit to serve in high offices such as the Supreme Court. The NYT does not protest. In the meantime the NYT has not looked into the obvious fact that Hillary Clinton by using an unprotected server exposed US negotiating positions and codes. Nor is the Times looking into the dossier as an opposition party document used in an attempted coup by the top people at US intelligence services. Nor is the NYT looking into what the Awans and Pakistani intelligence were doing.
Furthermore, under Donald Trump the US economy has begun to grow but the NYT continues to oppose his policies and in general policies supporting job growth. The Green New Deal would destroy the US economy impoverishing the people but the NYT has not made this clear.
The vehicle for all this is fake stories sourced to anonymous sources and stories based on the acceptance of hoaxes or else the suppression of facts by ignoring important stories.
Who but an enemy of the people writes fake stories about collusion trying to damage the President while ignoring real stories about exposure of US secrets? Who but an enemy of the people publishes story after false story containing dreadful accusations against white people and/or Christians? Who but an enemy of the people supports programs that will impoverish them?
@Phidippus,
I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here.
I'm not a veteran, but as I once wittily quipped to my brother over plates of bar-be-que in a restaurant in northern Alabama:
"You know what about 65% of the enlisted men in the Armed Forces call Bible-thumpers?
"No, what?"
"Mom & Pop."
Michael K. wrote:
"I think the political left will have trouble with enlisted ranks. They might do better with officers, especially female."
Like the female officer who forced male recruits to walk around the base in high heels all day?
I am not military but suspect that if the shit ever does hit the fan in this country, there will be an upsurge in officer fraggings.
"One butter bar at my reserve unit used to carry around a copy of Nietzsche (look at me! I read hard books!) "
At our summer ROTC bivouac once (in a different military, a Navy actually) I carried a copy of Thucydides in my backpack. But I was a teenager.
@SGT Ted, care to weigh in on what would happen if the government tried to use the US Army to enforce gun confiscation?
I think the political left will have trouble with enlisted ranks. They might do better with officers, especially female.
The Navy Times did a poll before the election. Enlisted strongly Trump (~70% IIRC), officers were about even.
Ralph: "The Navy Times did a poll before the election. Enlisted strongly Trump (~70% IIRC), officers were about even."
Break out the officers by combat arms vs administrative/support functions and the combat arms officers would be about 70% for Trump as well.
In my day everybody had a copy of "Catch 22". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22
"Otherwise there is nothing to stop the insurrectionists from threatening or liquidating any pro-government people at any time, as they live among them. The guerrillas main asset is anonymity, posing as just another civilian. " - buwaya
I think this is how the current Cold Civil War would look if it turned hot. The Deplorables have no interest or desire to fight the military, or law enforcement, or the government. More than likely, small groups or individuals will strike at journalists, academics, politicians, leftist groups, etc. There will be kidnappings, assassinations, and disappearances. Later, it may escalate to arson, bombings, drive-bys and the like. Mob violence is also a possibility in some areas, dragging leftists out of their houses and lynching them. I'm sure the left would fight back in a similar manner.
It won't be pretty. I hope it doesn't happen, and if it does I'm not around for it.
Does anyone - with a brain - still trust the NYT or WaPo or CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/MSNBC/PBS/NPR to report accurately and fairly on Trump?
I mean, they've been lying about the guy for 3.5 years.
BTW, they Still haven't apologized for mocking and calling him a liar over the "Wiretaps" thing.
I find it hilarious that McCabe trashes Jeff Sessions in his book, and NO ONE CARES.
I mean, was the guy ever AG?. What did he do? No one remembers
Enlisted strongly Trump (~70% IIRC), officers were about even."
Then, of course, we have West Point.
First and foremost, standards at West Point are nonexistent. They exist on paper, but nowhere else. The senior administration at West Point inexplicably refuses to enforce West Point’s publicly touted high standards on cadets, and, having picked up on this, cadets refuse to enforce standards on each other. The Superintendent refuses to enforce admissions standards or the cadet Honor Code, the Dean refuses to enforce academic standards, and the Commandant refuses to enforce standards of conduct and discipline. The end result is a sort of malaise that pervades the entire institution. Nothing matters anymore. Cadets know this, and it has given rise to a level of cadet arrogance and entitlement the likes of which West Point has never seen in its history.
Interesting reading.
Folks here are so used to throwing insults themselves that they can't accept how bizarre that tweet from POTUS really is. When history is written . . . .
readering: "Folks here are so used to throwing insults themselves that they can't accept how bizarre that tweet from POTUS really is."
LOL
The NYT reported, via anonymous sources, that Trump tried to get Whitaker to have the the lead attorney for the SDNY to unrecuse himself and take over the Cohen case.
Trump denies this.
Whitaker denies this.
The US Attorney denies this.
Fake news.
But you just keep being you readering.
I read that West Point article and the same officer's CYA memo about his interaction with the Commie Cadet. He didn't enforce much discipline from Commie, either.
One saying at the Pentagon was Air Force devious, Army dumb, and Navy defiant.
Blogger Big Mike said...
"@SGT Ted, care to weigh in on what would happen if the government tried to use the US Army to enforce gun confiscation?"
it would be an illegal order. It wouldn't have to be obeyed. The National Guard however......just might side with the gun owners.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
"This is what he wants his followers to think, he’s confident that it needs no explanation, his followers will fall in line, at least most of them. Try not to be his follower, try to think for yourself again."
The irony is palpable.
“Folks here are so used to throwing insults themselves that they can't accept how bizarre that tweet from POTUS really is. When history is written . . . .”
IMO, it’s worse than merely being used to throwing insults, they have been conditioned to not question anything Trump blathers. Good cult members.
What the heck happened to all the commenters that used to be so proud of themselves for being independent thinkers?
Just like the left has adopted sanctuary cities/counties/states on their issues, soon the right will do the same thing. You are already seeing it with the out-state sheriffs regarding the California and Washington state gun laws, and places in the flyover states will do the same thing but on a larger scale especially with respect to federal law.
Inga, don't you realize that you sound just like you have received your daily talking points at some lefty website? As Rusty said above, "The irony is palpable."
Big Mike, Rusty, Michael K et al: Your comments pretty much confirm my impression.
They'll have to poach this frog, not boil it.
Indeed the irony is palpable, but not the way you think.
“Inga, don't you realize that you sound just like you have received your daily talking points at some lefty website? As Rusty said above, "The irony is palpable.”
When I read the comments here it sounds to me like its coming straight out of the mouths or websites of Instapundit, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, Fox News- Hannity, the Blaze, Gateway Pundit, Conservative Tree House. Righty rags who push one conspiracy theory after another. It’s as if people here quote them almost verbatim and are dishonest enough not to give a citation.
Inga, they thought really hard, weighed the evidence, and decided that your side was a bigger and more dishonest threat to our culture and civilization.
But don't worry. You still have a flock of sheep following you
Phidippus said...
My guess is, some will, most won't. And some of the officers who demand that such an order be obeyed will not live to see the next day.
I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here.
The flag ranks are corrupt. So are the military schools. There is a generation of officers that would “just follow orders.”
The enlisted ranks are thoroughly deplorable. They like the generals and those officers about as much as the shithead leftists that want to take their guns.
There is a not small number of flag rank officers that are right there with Hillary and Obama. They got to bomb all sorts of people.
They also believe that Americans shouldn’t have guns.
Let that sink in. Leaders of the military don’t want their soldiers to have guns when not on duty and citizens in general to be unable to defend themselves.
One thing ancient empires did to suppress rebellions was to bring in troops from a far-off province to handle the locals. Our active duty military is very integrated ethnically and regionally, however our national guard and reserves are not. National Guard troops from the Southern states might follow orders to disarm rural New Englanders. Likewise, troops from the upper Midwest might willingly do the same in the South. In my experience, there is still a lot regional hatred and distrust in the US.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/02/15/troops-do-not-view-immigration-as-a-national-emergency-not-even-close/?fbclid=IwAR3HmZtFbk7lNCRzwRnu_R5lF3wgu-11lx6crmjMfx-CkbvjCk_3FX3q6T8
“An October Military Times poll of nearly 900 active-duty troops found that 60 percent believed immigration was either a small threat to U.S. national security or no threat at all. Only 23 percent labeled the issue as a significant or very significant threat.
Likewise, 77 percent of respondents viewed Mexico as a small threat or none whatsoever, and only 9 percent described it as a significant or very significant threat.
Much more pressing concerns, in the eyes of troops, included cyberterrorism, Russia and China. White nationalists were also viewed as a greater threat than immigration.”
It's interesting a certain, leftist poster who believed - without question - Christine Blasey Ford, Nathan Phillips, Jussie Smollett and the entire media/entertainment complex around those three incidents - is now castigating the rest of us for not properly questioning what we see and read.
Stupidity exceeded only by arrogance.
Inga: "Righty rags who push one conspiracy theory after another."
Hoax dossier/collusion gal would like to lecture others about conspiracy theories.
Lets all listen in very closely....
LOL
The Military Times is USA Today (Gannett).
No different in any way.
Same ownership, editorial slant and biased polls.
When I read the comments here it sounds to me like its coming straight out of the mouths or websites of Instapundit, Breitbart, Washington Examiner, Fox News- Hannity, the Blaze, Gateway Pundit, Conservative Tree House.
Good lord. The only one of those sites I visit occasionally is Insty ... because it's a news aggregator.
There are independent thinkers on this board. Hint: You're aren't one of them.
Inga needed some bucking up with the new leak that Bruce Ohr testified over a year ago that he (ohr) had violated DOJ/FBI rules about working on cases where the agent has a financial interest.
Bruce Ohr admitted he hand carried a THIRD hoax dossier prepared by his wife Nellie, FusionGPS employee, directly to the FBI!
Guess who Ohr told this to way back when?.....(go ahead...guess.....)....
....Rod Rosenstein!
Complete corruption of the entire system.
Hoax Dossier 1: fusionGPS to Steele
Hoax Dossier 2: Blumenthal/Shearer thru the state dept to the FBI
Hoax Dossier 3: Nellie Ohr (FusionGPS) to Bruce Ohr (DOJ #3 under Sally Yates) to the FBI
Meanwhile, commie Brennan is running CIA operatives into the Trump campaign and funneling that through MI6 and Alexander Downer (Australian diplomat/Clinton Foundation pal) and the US state dept.
Amazing.
Looks like there is a new sheriff over in the Attorney Generals Office.....
From a mid-afternoon Times email: "Top News Intimidation, Pressure and Humiliation: Inside Trump’s Two-Year War on the Investigations Encircling Him".
Self referential. It's Trump's war on the investigations, not a war of investigations on Trump.
Trump's correct, they are enemies of the people, particularly the people's choice of POTUS.
"care to weigh in on what would happen if the government tried to use the US Army to enforce gun confiscation?
My expectations are as follows:
1) The Marine Corps really on has 3 bases (with their attendant air wings: Pendleton and 29 Palms in California and Lejeune in Nortb Carolina. If you grew up on the West Coast your first duty station was East Coast, if you grew up in the East you were sent to California. This is deliberate. The obvious reason for this is to keep new recruits from bumping into their old habits and getting in trouble. As well as quenching any desire to go AWOL back to your high school buddies.
It would be similar for a mass gun confiscation program. Bo will not be kicking in his high school football coach's door back in Alabama. No, he'll be patrolling streets as foreign to him as possible. Detroit. Chicago. NYC.
I still think they will refuse orders, but its not as sure a thing as some believe. 60-40 in our favor maybe. Just witness the corruption of your local police department - granted, they aren't as disiplined as Marines, but then how many of you would have trusted the FBI without hesitation 2 years ago? I certainly did. So we need to recognize the ground has shifted under our feet. We should operate under the assumption that the things we've always counted on to remain unbroken may have perished.
2) The confiscation program will not be dramatic. People will be singled out with overwhelming fotce, and not only will the neighbors find sudden reasons not to make a fuss, they likely won't even know what that ruckas wss at 4am until weeks later.
3) I have been hearing "keep your powder dry" for 2 decades now. The fatal flaw of conservativism is to always err on the side of caution, to never even *risk* over-playing our hand. Ww have cherised families and are deeply invested in our quality of life. So I'm sorry, but I suspect I will be cautioned to "keep my powder dry" long after Mike and Susan and the kids are gunned down by an overzealous sheriff.
Case in point, I'm coming to Althouse after ababdoning the poor character of Professor Jacobson over at Legal Insurrection. I take no joy in the discovery, I respected him highly. But one of the many "tells" I missed was along the lines of this discussion. I tried to have faith in his philosophy that resistance to the government should remain inside the Rule of Law. But for 2 YEARS I tried to get him to explain where the red line was: "worst case scenario, if the Rule of Law fails us, what are the signs that would indicate wwe pick up rifle? When do we use violence as a last resort?"
For two years Jacobson simply ignored the question. Wouldn't even extend the courtesy of examining it. I can be quite daft sometimes, so it took me awhile to understand his silence was his answer.
It was "never". There is no red line for conservatives like him (and he is definitely NOT an Establishment Cuck). But if civil and legal road fails, that's Game Over as far as he is concerned. He is not going to resort to violence in defense of Liberty. Maybe he figures if the Republic has gone that far off the rails it deserves to die, I don't know. But when SWAT kicks in your door at 4am, he is not going to make a fuss.
...sorry if I made everyone depressed. I feel like I should fall on sword or something to underline the despair.
Sweetie, would you bring me another Stoli Rocks? Put it on Inga's tab thanks.
My guess is, some will, most won't. And some of the officers who demand that such an order be obeyed will not live to see the next day.
I would be very interested in comments on this belief from any veterans who post here.
Without giving away the farm, there are former and current military - as well as former and current LEOs - who regularly spend time practicing tactical training on weekends. There are also civilians doing the same. And there is overlap.
They're not training to start hostilities, but in response. And they aren't a bunch of Jethros in coveralls shooting up the woods and having a couple beers. They're family men and women with jobs, families and mostly want to be left alone.
If - IF - the shit ever hits the fan, the people who started it will wish they hadn't.
I don't think so, Jacobsen, has held the unpopular view, as the lone conservative in Ithaca, much like Jeremy rabkin was a generation ago, one of the more reliable links,
"The characterization of a person or group as an enemy of the people has been deployed by tyrants"
Sometimes the people ripping open fire hydrants are a disgrace. And sometimes they are firemen and there is a fire.
Trump's critics have been running around with their heads cut off stirring the people up with talk of wolves in our midst - Nazis rising, White Supremacists embolden enough to wanded the streets with nooses and bleach. To which I happily respond "Run along boy and go bother Mr Robinson."
But he is right to call the media the enemy of the people - they are propaganda arms of the Leftists who want to enslave us to Marxism. They ars not our friends, not our fellow countrymen. I wish I could kill them myself, but it would leave my wife miserable.
Although my bucket list is more interesting than most.
but a dog returns to his vomit:
https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/02/20/john-lott-calls-anti-gunners-capitalizing-aurora-il-shooting/
"Jacobsen, has held the unpopular view, as the lone conservative in Ithaca, much like Jeremy rabkin was a generation ago, one of the more reliable links"
You think he'll fight?
Maybe he just didn't appreciate my winning personality. But the last straw for me is that Jacobson allows his guests to be abused by other guests at his table, while he looks on. There is a pattern of... something. Arrogance? Elitism? Sadism? Whatever the cause its a perversion - he presents himself as a man of principle championing the Rule of Law.
And it's been presented to me that the most likely explanation for him shielding the bully at his table is because the bully has donated more money than most.
It doesn't matter. I gave him the benefit of doubt, assumed I simply misunderstood and he was acting in good faith. And I got burned for it.
I hope you are right and I am wrong. I respected him and I enjoy the way his mind works. He taught me some good lessons.
Regardless, I couldn't possibly go back now and leave Althouse. It's become clear that she really missed me!
Inga cut and paste:
“An October Military Times poll of nearly 900 active-duty troops found that 60 percent believed immigration was either a small threat to U.S. national security or no threat at all."
I don't think immigration is a threat either. I think illegal immigration is a threat. The troops weren't asked about illegals.
Of course, you always ignore that little word "illegal." That's because you are not only dishonest, but notably stupid.
Operaman - I suggest that you listen again to the song Happy Trails by Gene Autry.
You seem to be ignorant and full of self-righteousness, and I am trying to help you see the world in a more accurate way..
Ummm! Because he was there.
That does not mean that he is not lying, but the burden has to be on the people with anonymous sources. The “It is fakes” side has a real witness. Lying? Perhaps
Trump just makes it up as he goes along.
I don't think immigration is a threat either. I think illegal immigration is a threat.
And how does illegal immigration occur?
(Trick question to a Trumpanzee. Let's see how she answers! ;-))
You're lying again in your response. You're an habitual, vicious liar. One of the worst, most evil I've encountered on the web. Even worse than Ritmo, because you mean it. Ritmo is just jerking off.
We don't have a bigotry moral problem in the U.S.
Lol. Screeching Tommy Tom-Boy is one of those "fine people" that Trump praised from among the Charlottesville Nazis. LOL!.
“Regardless, I couldn't possibly go back now and leave Althouse.”
“...but a dog returns to his vomit:”
—————————
“Lol. Screeching Tommy Tom-Boy is one of those "fine people" that Trump praised from among the Charlottesville Nazis. LOL!.”
Speaking of vomit, TommyBigmouth.
Fen @ 5:15pm,
Re your #1: no branch of the US military outside the Guard has regionally-based units, do they? Bo's Marine unit isn't gonna be all Southrons, it'll have people from all over.
National Guard units aren't going to be deployed to another state to confiscate guns. Where would they bivouac? How would thy establish security from snipers? What would happen to every patrol leaving it's bivouac area? Their unit patches would identify them as targets. That's a non-starter. That and the fact that as mentioned above- the lifespan of an officer giving orders to confiscate guns from the civilian populace is going to be short. I imagine that's true even of the CA NG.
As far as sheriffs go, mentioned above- sheriffs are elected officials. They control their deputies, who serve at their pleasure. Sheriffs know the people who voted for them. In rural areas there are no anti-gun sheriffs. Anti-gun law enforcement officials come from politically appointed police chiefs and commissioners. And even then, rank and file police are members of their local gun clubs. Think they;re going to move against the other members? And you can't move police around. NYC police have no police powers in other cities or counties. State police are possibly the only police the populace needs to worry about. And even then- their families live among the rest of the populace. Civil wars are brutal- families will not be spared if needed to get the message across.
If the active duty forces are ordered to suppress the populace there's a very good chance they'll leave the barracks to take out the politicians giving those orders.
1920, 1930, maybe the government could have ordered such things. Communication could be controlled or suppressed. The troops could be kept ignorant of why they were doing what they were doing. Not today.
"Re your #1: no branch of the US military outside the Guard has regionally-based units, do they?"
Correct, but I would go further and sat not only are the Marines not regionally based, they go out of their eay to avoid it. Its very rare for a Marine's first duty station to be anywhere near home . If you grew up by Camp Pendleton, expect to be sent to North Carolina.
"Bo's Marine unit isn't gonna be all Southrons, it'll have people from all over."
People from all over except California. And so his unit would likely deploy to the West Coast in a gun confiscation scenario.
I'm not real clear on the legality. During the LA Riots my LAV unit was tasked with securing critical turnpikes on the outskirts of the city. And we underwent riot control training. I thought that was a big no-no.
Inga: "they have been conditioned to not question anything Trump blathers. Good cult members."
For starters, if we've been conditioned by anything it's the hysterical accusations brought against Trump by all the Lefty Moonbats. They have immunized Trump against legitimate criticism: "Oh him? That's the nitwit who's always crying that wolves are making the sky fall or somesuch. Just ignore him, everyone does."
Inga: "What the heck happened to all the commenters that used to be so proud of themselves for being independent thinkers?"
Riiiight. Because of all my failings, being a conformist lemming is at the top of my list of things I need to work on. Have we met?
Have you considered that there may be OTHER reasons we do what we do? Can you imagine more rational motives? Try it, if only as an intellectual exercise.
(reposted without the extra line breaks again dag nammit. I haven't slept in 72 hoursm Sorry)
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