The study divided 390 adults into three groups. One group took an eight-week meditation class, another group took an eight-week exercise class and the third group did neither. All received flu shots.I'm surprised at how many illnesses there were. I wonder what would have happened if the exercise group had exercised alone, as opposed to in a class where germs could be spread, but the meditation people were also in a class, and the control group seems not to have had to gather together with potential germ-spreaders.
From fall to spring, the meditation group had 112 respiratory infection episodes, for which they missed 73 days of work. The exercise group had 120 episodes and missed 82 days of work. The control group had 134 episodes and missed 105 days of work.
३ जानेवारी, २०१९
To ward off colds and flu... meditate?
The Wisconsin State Journal reports on a UW-Madison study:
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३८ टिप्पण्या:
The meditation people aren't breathing hard and throwing out germs for everybody.
The convention in Japan is if you're sick and go out, you wear a surgical mask.
Not a very big sample size so not very conclusive. Yeah and how can they overlook proximity spreading germs.
I reckon I've had one cold in 2 decades when I had a humidifier going in my bedroom during furnace season.
As far as number of illnesses go, it's roughly an average of 1 cold per person. One hypochondriac in one group would throw off the whole study.
The proximity hypothesis is kind of silly. I think we can assume all of these adults are in proximity to people all the time. For a real study you need a group of hermits. Meditating hermits, exercise hermits, and lazy ass hermits.
Really not enough data, and there could be many many other reasons for their illnesses. Probably it's not statistically significant at all.
From the original research article abstract:
“Conclusions
Training in mindfulness meditation or exercise may help protect against ARI illness.
Limitations
This trial was likely underpowered.”
Little difference between mindfulness and exercise. Control group was on a wait list. The larger question is:
if you get something that’s supposed to make you healthier how likely are you to conclude it made a difference (i.e. the training was NOT a waste of time)
Read the study. They did a great job trying to accurately measure this but ultimately they were underpowered and doing a very hard to control study.
Meditators (who may also have begun exercising) were slightly less likely to get an acute respiratory illness but if they got it they were slightly more severe and longer lasting than exercisers.
What was almost suspiciously absent from my quick review of the study data was the quantity and quality of meditation vs. exercise in self-reported data from participants. There is an enormous difference in exercise between 20 minutes of light walking 5x a week and 45 minutes of jogging/weight lifting 3-5x a week. Similarly, I expect there are large differences in meditation practices.
They also don't appear to have tracked dietary changes. Did the exercise and meditation groups begin eating healthier?
If the study found anything I think it shows:
- That meditation can have similar effects to exercise on reduction in ARI which needs further study
- That a shocking number of middle aged adults in wisconsin get an acute respiratory illness (80%!) despite flu shots.
PS I exercise regularly AND as I write this I’m home with a respiratory infection.
Proximity to preschoolers is the killer.
They should've had three similar groups that did not get the flu shot. But, that might of harshed the narrative.
I favor other people getting flu shots.
so 390 people divided into 3 groups? 130 each?
The control group had 134 episodes? Out of 130 people? In EIGHT WEEKS?
at least 4 (FOUR!) people got sick TWICE in EIGHT WEEKS? And nearly Everyone else got sick once?
Pardon ME for saying Bullsnort
Aaron Rodger's agent!!
How many children, and what ages, did each group have, or were exposed to?
Parents of small children are almost always going to get sick and they will take off more time from work because their little petri dishes/children are also sick.
If you work at a school or are near children during cold and flu season....just plan on being sick. You cannot escape!!
If you work with the public you are also going to be sick.
THIS IS A STUPID EXPERIMENT. There are no control groups and too many extraneous factors. DUMB.
There is also the self fulfilling prophecy effect. If the groups know that they are being monitored for the effect of being ill or not being ill, then any small symptoms will cause them to consider themselves sick. So....the little babies, I mean test subjects, being hypersensitive to their own bodies, stay home, instead of having to go to work like most people who just power through it.
My favorite recent meme:
CDC: Throw out your romaine lettuce
Public: Okay, done!
CDC: Don't eat raw cookie dough
Public: How 'bout you mind your own business.
I would be more interested in a study in which they monitored people who were already exercising regularly - while exercise has many great health benefits, initially upon starting an exercise program (or upon switching intensity or exercise type), the immune system is somewhat suppressed. The suppression is short-term, but then again, so was this study.
I’ve been doing yoga for several years now, which includes a bit of meditation. I haven’t gotten a cold or flu of any kind for nearly two years. I do also take vitamin C on a regular basis.
Weak placebo effect detected.
How do the randomize people not susceptible to colds and flu?
Now into my 6th decade I rarely get a cold, and when I do, it last 3 maybe 4 days. I explained that to my wife before we were married, 40years ago. She called me a liar. Today she will attest. I am the opposite of a germaphobe. I do not wash my hands 12 times a day. I don't shy away from groups. I am 10 days past spending 4 days in one house with 6 grandkids under 8 years old. All of them snotting at the nose.
I did however take special care in picking out my parents.
I've reduced the number of respiratory infections I get. Nasal irrigation. On a regular basis. Using a Water-Pik like machine designed for it, not a Neti pot. Adding xylitol to the salt and baking soda mix helps.
The study was BS. Too small to account for all the possible different interactions. Did all the groups have similar jobs? Meet people the same age and the same frequency outside the study group? Travel to the same places? Go to the same churches/clubs/meetings?
If you have a "Fake News" category, that's where this article should go.
Like iowan2 I very rarely get colds and have only had the flu once, about 30 years go.
Based on me, exercising, not exercising, meditating, and not meditating all prevent colds.
So the flu shots didn’t work or just lessened the severity?
Gees, another study stating the obvious; hang out in groups during cold & flu season and you'll get sick more often.
Next study; water is wet.
Too many variables in the equation
Some people are still trying to push that New Age bullshit on us, despite failure after failure.
I am not the Crack Emcee
Square root of 120 is about 11. The groups did not have statistically significant differences in number of "respiratory episodes". 112 +/- 11 overlaps 120 +/- 11 which overlaps 134 +/- 11. This isn't much difference from chance.
Square root of 80 is about 9. 73 +/- 9 days overlaps 82 +/- 9 days. But neither overlaps 105 +/- 10.
I'd say at most there's weak evidence that meditation or exercise may be better than doing nothing for reducing days of work missed, but that neither seems to be better than nothing for reducing number of episodes.
What about if one group had not had the flu shot?
What about if one group had not had the flu shot?
For this to be a truly valid experiment, you need to have 'identical' groups. Same ages, demographics, circumstances, lifestyles etc. An impossible task when it comes to humans in "the wild" (outside of a controlled environment).
As it is the experiment tells us exactly nothing.
I've never had a flu shot, and as I recall, I've never had "The Flu". An occasional cold every few years, but nothing bad, with fevers or other symptoms than some sinus congestion.
Of course, I take my Grandmother's and Mother's remedy at the first hint of a cold. Hot brandy tea with honey and lots of lemon juice. Hot buttered rum is good too :-)
@DBQ:Hot brandy tea with honey and lots of lemon juice. Hot buttered rum is good too.
That's not a remedy: that's just not caring if you're sick.
@DBQ:For this to be a truly valid experiment, you need to have 'identical' groups. Same ages, demographics, circumstances, lifestyles etc. An impossible task when it comes to humans in "the wild" (outside of a controlled environment).
There's control group matching. It's not infallible but in the real world nothing is. So we don't just throw up our hands and declare the matter forever unknowable. We just do the best we can with what we have. It's not a choice between nothing and perfect knowledge and if we can't get perfect knowledge we might as well use nothing.
As it is the experiment tells us exactly nothing.
It's weak evidence; it doesn't tell us much. But it tells us more than nothing.
Eur Respir J. 1997
Attenuation of influenza-like symptomatology and improvement of cell-mediated immunity with long-term N-acetylcysteine treatment.
"...NAC treatment was well tolerated and resulted in a significant decrease in the frequency of influenza-like episodes, severity, and length of time confined to bed. Both local and systemic symptoms were sharply and significantly reduced in the NAC group. Frequency of seroconversion towards A/H1N1 Singapore 6/86 influenza virus was similar in the two groups, but only 25% of virus-infected subjects under NAC treatment developed a symptomatic form, versus 79% in the placebo group." "...N-acetylcysteine did not prevent A/H1N1 virus influenza infection but significantly reduced the incidence of clinically apparent disease."
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y87r74cw
Sharyl Attkisson 2015
Govt. Researchers: Flu Shots Not Effective in Elderly, After All
An important and definitive “mainstream” government study done nearly a decade ago got little attention because the science came down on the wrong side. It found that after decades and billions of dollars spent promoting flu shots for the elderly, the mass vaccination program did not result in saving lives. In fact, the death rate among the elderly increased substantially.
The authors of the study admitted a bias going into the study. Here was the history as described to me: Public health experts long assumed flu shots were effective in the elderly. But, paradoxically, all the studies done failed to demonstrate a benefit. Instead of considering that they, the experts, could be wrong–instead of believing the scientific data–the public health experts assumed the studies were wrong. After all, flu shots have to work, right?
So the NIH launched an effort to do “the” definitive study that would actually prove, for the first time, once and for all, that flu shots were beneficial to the elderly. The government would gather some of the brightest scientific minds for the research, and adjust for all kinds of factors that could be masking that presumed benefit.
But when they finished, no matter how they crunched the numbers, the data kept telling the same story: flu shots were of no benefit to the elderly. Quite the opposite. The death rate had increased markedly since widespread flu vaccination among older Americans. The scientists finally had to acknowledge that decades of public health thought had been mistaken.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y7wtnmnp
N-acetylcysteine -- NAC -- (a more bioavailable form of the amino acid cysteine) isn't a vaccine. According to the 1997 study above, it doesn't prevent someone getting the flu. But, compared to the control group, the severity of the symptoms were remarkably diminished.
NAC, along with the amino acid glycine, helps the body make more of the body's principal antioxidant (glutathione), which is diminished in older people, according to:
Am J Clin Nutr. 2011
Deficient synthesis of glutathione underlies oxidative stress in aging and can be corrected by dietary [n-acetyl]cysteine and glycine supplementation.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ydd6p4em
Federalist writer, Fox News guest Bre Payton dies at 26
SAN DIEGO (AP) — Bre Payton, a writer for the conservative news site The Federalist and a frequent guest on the Fox News Channel and other media outlets, died suddenly Friday at the age of 26.
"...doctors determined Payton had H1N1 flu — also known as swine flu — and meningitis."
Nervenarzt. 2007
[N-acetyl-L-cysteine as a therapeutic option in bacterial meningitis]. [Article in German]
"...Experimental studies have shown that the prognosis for bacterial meningitis can be improved by the administration of antioxidants. Especially adjunctive therapy with N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) was shown to have mainly positive effects."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17235423
$744,046.00
That was the primary grant from the NIH. In addition there were individual salary grants for the researchers involved.
It was "underpowered," absurdly so.
@Rabe: In addition there were individual salary grants for the researchers involved.
Certainly most people prefer to work for pay, rather than for free.
If the researchers are at a university they are not getting paid for their research time, so the grant funds the research time. The university pockets half the grant money and hires academic staff to teach for the time spent by the researchers on research, making a further profit.
StephenFearby said...
I take a glycine and an NAC daily, but not for those reasons. Did you plow through the studies enough to look at the dosages?
Plowing through studies can tell you a lot. For example, the studies showing that oat or psyllium fiber can help reduce cholesterol. Yes, they can. In far higher doses than most are willing to take. Dosages that cause people to not want to be downwind of you. Or in an elevator or other small space.
Stress undermines the immune system. Meditating regularly is a proven anti-stress method, hundreds of studies on lower blood pressure, etc. It's not magic or a mystery then that meditators in general are able to ward off common infections/flu. Being well hydrated and getting enough rest and exercise are also necessary measures. Know thyself -- know your immune system and how strong it is.
The last time I had a flu shot I got sicker than I have ever been in decades. The experts assure the public there is NO WAY you can get sick from flu shots but I don't get flu shots any more. I had a somewhat severe reaction to a shingles vaccine shot and a pneumonia vaccine shot I did get. So the comment by StephenFearby quoting Sharyl Attkisson "2015 Govt. Researchers: Flu Shots Not Effective in Elderly, After All" caught my interest. No explanation was given for the result though. My theory is that flu shots do not strengthen the immune system in older people and that's why the shots are ineffective.
@Gospace 4:11 PM
"...I take a glycine and an NAC daily, but not for those reasons. Did you plow through the studies enough to look at the dosages?"
From the Italian study:
"...Effervescent tablets of NAC...600 mg·tablet...(two tablets per day, after
breakfast and at bedtime)"
The Am J Clin Nutr study:
"...Only the elderly subjects received oral treatment of 14 d with 0.81 mmol cysteine kg21 d21 (as n-acetylcysteine) and 1.33 mmol glycine kg21 d21 after which they were restudied."
Translating what this actually means in plain English is above my pay grade.
@R.J. Chatt 4:35 PM
"...My theory is that flu shots do not strengthen the immune system in older people and that's why the shots are ineffective."
Older folks also constitute the largest percentage of people who develop Alzheimer's.
According to a major editorial in the J Alzheimer's disease, the most likely reason people get Alzheimer's is diminished immune system competence to control common long-resident microbes...causing the immune system to rear back and mount ineffective attacks that cause autoimmune damage to the brain.
J Alzheimers Dis. 2016
Microbes and Alzheimer’s Disease
"...In summary, we propose that infectious agents, including HSV1, Chlamydia pneumonia, and
spirochetes, reach the CNS and remain there in latent form. These agents can undergo
reactivation in the brain during aging, as the immune system declines, and during different
types of stress (which similarly reactivate HSV1 in the periphery). The consequent neuronal
damage—caused by direct viral action and by virus-induced inflammation—occurs
recurrently, leading to (or acting as a cofactor for) progressive synaptic dysfunction,
neuronal loss, and ultimately AD..."
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycx3koyn
A 2018 Mount Sinai study supporting this theory:
Harder Evidence Builds That Viruses Play a Role in Alzheimer's
"...The team found more viral DNA in Alzheimer’s brains compared with healthy brains—specifically, high levels of DNA from human herpesvirus 6A (HHV-6A). RNA of both HHV-6A and HHV-7 were also higher in the Alzheimer’s brains than in healthy brains, and viral RNA levels tracked with the severity of clinical symptoms..."
'...They then tried to determine whether viruses are involved in the progression to Alzheimer’s or whether they are, instead, bystanders or somehow consequences of the disease...“It was really striking,” says Sam Gandy, a co-author who is a Mount Sinai neurologist and amyloid expert. The viruses “seemed to be talking to some of the networks that contained some of the familiar Alzheimer’s-related genes.”'
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybyd4pfs
OK, but why doesn't everyone who grows old get Alzheimer's?
The most plausible reason is that glutathione depletion can also be addressed by means other than taking NAC. For example, the sulforaphane in broccoli:
Mol Neuropsychiatry. 2018 May;3(4):214-222.
Sulforaphane Augments Glutathione and Influences Brain Metabolites in Human Subjects: A Clinical Pilot Study.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y9sj9hsj
Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2018 Nov;21(6):451-457.
Crucifers and related vegetables and supplements for neurologic disorders: what is the evidence?
"... Cruciferous vegetables are a key part of the arsenal of nutrition-based approaches for reducing the burden of chronic disease. Much new evidence suggests that neurological disorders are among the potential targets for this approach. This evidence includes at least nine clinical studies of neurodevelopmental conditions like autism spectrum disorder and schizophrenia, and there are a great many studies in animal model systems, of neurodegenerative disorders like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases. This review highlights the most bioactive and most well-studied compounds from crucifers - the isothiocyanates, in particular sulforaphane."
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycbh4dx8
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