Via Real Clear Politics:
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC 'TODAY' HOST: Do you feel that you owe anybody an apology? Do you see your own faults in any way?
NICK SANDMANN, COVINGTON CATHOLIC STUDENT: As far as standing there, I had every right to do so. My position is that I was not disrespectful to Mr. Phillips. I respect him. I'd like to talk to him. I mean, in hindsight I wished we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing.
पोस्ट्स
२२० टिप्पण्या:
220 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»All the entertainment that can be milked out of it, is the rule.
"Do you feel that you owe anybody an apology? Do you see your own faults in any way?"
Second question betrays a bias against him. I will watch more of this to see if that assessment is correct.
He should have just turned around.
But, I have to keep reminding myself, he’s 16.
Assessment of bias confirmed. Also confirmed that Phillips is an insufferable asshole.
Wish he had responded by asking her if the media owed them an apology.
When do they interview the Black Hebrews?
Savannah Guthrie cried when Matt Lauer was fired for rape. Do you feel that you owe anybody an apology, Savannah? Do you see your own faults in any way?
Oh for the love of god, please wake me when it's over. The search for the great white defendant will continue unabated.
By the way, a few days ago in Delaware four black boys aged 12-14 lured a 13-year-old lured a 13-year-old girl into a house and gang raped her. Anyone read any think pieces on this incident? Anyone supposed to extrapolate what this incident means for blackness? But then again, what is gang rape of a 13-year-old compared to a white kid in a MAGA hat with a smirk(!)?
Phillips is a coward. The kid has much more maturity than The Elder. The Elder is a bad man.
The kid should have been kept off of TV.
There is no benefit to him.
before reading J Farmer's comment, i was going to ask:
Since the whole Covington Boys thing started,
How many times, in Chicago; has an elderly man been surrounded by a group of teenagers, who then mocked him and took all his money? Still Wondering
What we have here is a failure to communicate. The white teenage boy has never been told he is a an evil loser who must re-educate himself and bow down to the Narrative that Americans must be ashamed when they hear the drum beats of Indian Demonic Religion. That modern day Daniel has rightfully been thrown into the Lion's Den. Trouble is that like Daniel the Lions hungry won't eat him.
I blame Trump.
If Mr. Phillips is a veteran protestor, it seems odd--unlikely, frankly--that he would be unnerved by a gaggle of teen boys, as compared with armed police and other antagonists protestors must typically contend with.
The TV folks are a tragedy.
Liberal Media is STILL trying to put the blame on the kid that stood there and smiled. HOW dare he??? Pitiful.
@Robert Cook:
If Mr. Phillips is a veteran protestor, it seems odd--unlikely, frankly--that he would be unnerved by a gaggle of teen boys, as compared with armed police and other antagonists protestors must typically contend with.
I believe that while Phillips did in fact enlist in the Marine Corp during the "Vietnam era," he never actually served in Vietnam and thus never saw a shot fired in anger.
"SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC 'TODAY' HOST: Do you feel that you owe anybody an apology? Do you see your own faults in any way?
Trying to salvage something for progs out of this fiasco.
It's a trick question: a good Catholic would answer yes to the second question. Gotcha, St. Augustine.
"NICK SANDMANN, COVINGTON CATHOLIC STUDENT: As far as standing there, I had every right to do so. My position is that I was not disrespectful to Mr. Phillips. I respect him. I'd like to talk to him. I mean, in hindsight I wished we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing."
Still a little naive--why "respect" the guy who helped to assault and defame you?--but this should go over well with women high on their own "sympathy."
NBC: "So, Nick, when did you stop beating and disrespecting native Americans?"
Pretty ironic for a member of the media to ask if somebody else can recognize their own faults, especially a kid who is actually the victim here.
But okay, sure, don't let me stop you from digging that hole even deeper.
Incentive. That's all you have to think through.
Yeah sure Cookie, armed police antagonize protesters. My god you are such a pseudo-dissident poseur.
NBC circles the toilet. Phillips gets his airtime. Sandmann mans up. Savannah Guthrie--a newscritter with a smirk asking, in effect, will you apologize for the hat?
I am not feeling so good about the near future at the moment.
This clip is about the hat, right?
Did Sandmann owe ANYONE an apology? Is there any error to which he'd care to confess? Any fault he'd like to admit? Does he acknowledge that he had committed "facecrime" (see 1984)? And what about wearing the HAT in a public place, or even owning the HAT?
@J.Farmer...
Actually, by "veteran protester," I didn't mean a veteran who was a protestor, but a veteran of many protest activities. If he has been involved in many protests, I would think he would have faced worst antagonists than this group of teenage boys who were not making any threatening motions toward him. But then, given that I wasn't there experiencing the overall tumult of the event, I can't say what thoughts and emotions were racing through his or their heads. I can say, having seen the Black Israelites many times in NYC, that they go out of their way to be provocative and insulting.
The media control the narrative and the media are overwhelmingly liberal, so therefore we're doomed.
Phillips: "School chants should stay in school, this wasn't school".
Using that same logic, how was the Native American chanting/song appropriate then?
"Yeah sure Cookie, armed police antagonize protesters."
1. Do you know what the word "antagonist" means?
2. The police have provoked and been needlessly aggressive toward protestors in many cases.
The Kid gained nothing from the interview. He was the vehicle that NBC hijaked to commit their crime of fake news.
As a parent, I would have agreed to the interview only if I could attend and video the entire interview. Then I would have had my son set his narrative.
President Trump has been wildly successful at exposing the media for the empty headed puppets they really are.
Savannah Guthrie should interview rambunctious Indian elder Nathan Phillips and ask him why he tried to bring his drum into a Catholic mass on the following evening.
Did he intend to beat his drum and sing his Indian song during the mass? If so, then why?
Ask him, Savannah.
Mike brings up the true motivations of the Indian. Disruption of private citizens. Yes get this Indian on camera and have him explain his attempt to crash a worship service, and would he respect people crashing his ceremonies?
Sure, Cookie. I'm sure you have ample evidence where the police initiate the provocation in protest situations. And not press reports from activist organizations who claim provocation but actual footage of protests where the police jump into the fray "on the count of three" and immediately commence the beatings. Do they often respond with excess force, of course. Your characterizing protesters as these noble souls suffering at the hands of the fascistic police state are laughable but not surprising from the guy (from New York of course!) who preens and postures here like some anarcho-dissident hero.
@Robert Cook:
Actually, by "veteran protester," I didn't mean a veteran who was a protestor, but a veteran of many protest activities.
Ah, I see. I did misread you. My apologies.
Why go on NBC?
I can't say what thoughts and emotions were racing through his or their heads.
Bull. Incentives. All you have to do is define the incentives.
Refusing to do so defines your position.
iowan2
Yes get this Indian on camera and have him explain his attempt to crash a worship service, and would he respect people crashing his ceremonies?
Yes, Savannah should ask Phillips what he would think about non-Indians disrupting an Indian ceremony.
The RCP lies to it's readers in the first sentence, changing "could have" to "would have".
@Jim Daniels:
Your characterizing protesters as these noble souls suffering at the hands of the fascistic police state are laughable but not surprising from the guy (from New York of course!) who preens and postures here like some anarcho-dissident hero.
Did he make that characterization?
Do they often respond with excess force, of course.
Isn't that conceding the point?
Bigger question: do street protests and demonstrations ever actually accomplish anything? The anti-Vietnam protests are emblematic, but it's often forgotten that they were pretty much a failure. Ditto the protests over the Iraq War. Standing on a street and shouting at passers by has to be about the most inefficient way ever to communicate a political message.
Classic "leading" questions...
Don't you feel regret for the not-doing something you did?
Do you think that the something that didn't happen was your fault?
Come on....just SAY it already!
Nathan Phillips was one of the last remaining protesters at the Dakota Access Pipeline. The linked article refers to him as a "member of Nebraska's Omaha Tribe", NOT as an elder in the tribe. A tribe's elders are its spiritual leaders, looked up to by the younger members. Who bestowed this unofficial title on him?
"Do you see your own faults in any way? "
Confess you little shit.
Phillips: "School chants should stay in school, this wasn't school".
Dare I say pounding a Native American drum should stay __ _________.
The implication was that protesters are often "antagonized by armed police" which is melodramatic and overblown at the very least. Almost every protest I've witnessed, depending on the cause, consisted of the participants "doing their thing" which often includes taunting and jeering at the cops if it's a lefty crowd, while the cops stand on the sides and ironically protect the rights of the protesters. When things have gotten out of hand it is ALWAYS the provocation of the protesters.
During GHWB's appearance in Philadelphia that turned into a melee, the Act Up crowd purposely initiated the chaos to provoke a reaction from the cops. Well, they got it. Good and hard. So yes, there was an overreaction. The Act Up mouthpiece had envelopes filled with prepared statements that they handed to the various media on hand - absolute lies about who started the chaos.
So no, I don't find most political protesters to be particularly sympathetic characters and to make them seem like they're the ones antagonized by the forces of the state is hokum.
Even with the slanted coverage by NBC, it's clear that Covington students did no wrong.
Phillips is a proven liar and racist shitbag. I wonder about that chant of his. Does he know any Indigian dialect, or was he just scatting? Is it still a holy shamanic chant if he doesn't know the words?
Chief Shitting Bull claims he was a afraid, and that the students surrounded him. NBC naturally did not show the footage of him and his group wading into the midst of the the students, the first time ever in the history of the world that people surrounded others simply by standing in place.
I believe Phillips was afraid, afraid to the confront the BHI who dissed him as an evil, devil-worshipping pagan., so he pivoted to go on the warpath against Whitey.
"School chants belong in school". I'm sure that's to be accepted as Constitutional law now that it was said by a drunken Injun... uh, I mean, a respected Native Elder and holder of a sacred pipe.
It's revealing the teaser for the interview leads with a statement from a grown man, an ex-marine, who felt threatened by a sixteen year old boy in a church group and not the other way around.
Did you notice the stereotype of a guy they picked to say, "Nope" he didn't think the boys had done anything wrong.
This interview was damage control for the media. This means the zeitgeist has changed on who’s the good guy. The press is doing its best to make the spin this in their favor. The longer this goes on the more truth will come out. So called elder Phillips if this goes on long enough, will be thrown under the bus. I hope the kids lawyers do sue. 2 minutes of hate, indeed.
The democrat advocacy journalism.
Anyone on the non-left must apologize for taking up space.
I heard last night that NBC is a part owner [majority] of Buzzfeed. NBC, IMO, is the most liberal of the Big 3 networks and I wonder if that is due to any influence from their biggest stockholders, the Roberts family which controls NBC's owner, Comcast.
Our major media outlets are a complete joke. They pretend now and then - but they are all democratic advocacy journalism.
Local affiliates, too.
The left will never give up until someone is harassed to death.
That is how they roll.
I predict David Hogg will be our future Leftwing Speech Police Commissar.
The Nice White Liberals (tm) believe this kid was wrong because the Black Israelites can't be held responsible for making racist, homophobic jeers and the Native American Elder must not be smiled at because he is Native American and not at all a person capable of being a jerk.
Nobody is responsible for their own actions but the white boy. And this is not at all racist in their Nice White Liberal mind.
Revealingly the adult who initiated the confrontation has never been challenged. In his interviews his assertions are accepted and promoted even though video evidence proves them false.
Dana Loesch is a woman who can be told on a CNN Town Hall that she has blood on her hands, because those teenagers bravely wanted a place to express their opinions. But you cannot be a teenager receiving the jeers from the grownups without being told you should have been more respectful of their jeers.
That kid handled himself very well for his age. I'd a cold-cocked that fucking retard Injun so he would never get up for getting in my face. Woulda saved the VA lots of money for someone who hasn't taken care of himself.
If CNN really wanted to clean things up, they would remove from their airwaves anyone who said horrible things about these 16 year olds. Stop financially incentivizing their pundits to jump to conclusions rather than gather news.
I don't understand the arguments that the kid should have walked away. Why did he have to give up his freedom of speech and assembly simply because the other person wanted him to leave? Sure, it would have de-escalated the event, but then that seems to be the way the left wants us to behave these days. If they disagree with you, they want you to leave; the restaurant, twitter, and now any public space. Standing one's ground is noble, particularly when all they are doing is standing for their own right to... stand!
Shorter Savannah Guthrie CNN, NBC, CBS MSDNC:
"You do realize, kid, that everyone in America hates you and wants you dead. You were wearing a Make America Great Again Hat and that is against the speech police rules here at Democratic media headquarters. Plus Hollywood hates you too. They want to punch your face and shove you through a wood chipper.
Kid - you needed to bow down to the rightful owners of our public spaces - leftists and leftwing grievance theater. How dare you not grovel."
In other words, the Nice White Liberals are assigning adult minorities the responsibility you normally give to children, and assigning children the adult responsibilities.
Nick Sandmann acquitted himself well. He did much better than Ryan Lochte when he was hauled before Principal Lauer as punishment for getting extorted at gunpoint by a brown person.
J Farmer said
By the way, a few days ago in Delaware four black boys aged 12-14 lured a 13-year-old lured a 13-year-old girl into a house and gang raped her. Anyone read any think pieces on this incident? Anyone supposed to extrapolate what this incident means for blackness? But then again, what is gang rape of a 13-year-old compared to a white kid in a MAGA hat with a smirk(!)?
Nobody cares about that. The DNC press and twitter brown-shirts must harass some teenaged boys over... the wrong kind of smile. + maga hats.
The anti-Vietnam protests are emblematic, but it's often forgotten that they were pretty much a failure.
Not true, they convinced Lyndon Johnson not to run again and convinced Nixon to seek/accept a negotiated withdrawal.
But those protests were far more widespread than today's which are a tiny percentage of the population limited almost exclusively to extreme activists. That's why the left was so enthusiastic over the Women's March. Their protests need to be mainstream to have any impact.
NPR interviewed Nathan Phillips. It was quite interesting. In the edited interview, Phillips was asked about the Black Hebrew Israelites and he described them as nuts; a group that he compared to the Westboro Church “protestors.” Obviously, NPR had made the clear editorial decision to not only pose that question but to leave in the answer.
Phillips said that he had seen the Black Hebrew Israelites on the Mall at other demonstration events, and that they were known antagonists and prone to insults and epithets.
It was an interesting bit of clarity in the news coverage of this social media-manufactured event.
The interview wasn't grossly unfair. The Sandmann kid didn't come across as smug or smart ass, which was the big risk in that situation. His answers seemed a bit coached, but that was all to the good. My suspicion is that she was setting traps for him, hoping that he would give the kind of response that could later be used against him. Didn't happen. Prior planning prevents piss poor performance........Nothing that young man has said has been shown to be false or misleading. The worst you can say is that he seemed coached and rehearsed in his answers, but a spontaneous answer could easily be fatal. Savannah was not his new, best friend. Phillips, on the other hand, has been misleading and has told some real whoppers. It doesn't look well for the press that they have not called him out on this. Maybe tomorrow.
"a few days ago in Delaware four black boys aged 12-14 lured a 13-year-old lured a 13-year-old girl into a house and gang raped her."
That never happened, or at least it didn't happen enough for any liberals to give a shit about.
paminwi said...
The kid should have been kept off of TV.
There is no benefit to him.
Completely agree. The kids issued a statement and should let that the end of their participation. Others can speak for them just as Guthrie et al are speaking for Phillips.
Why didn't Guthrie look at the camera and say "Shame on you, leftwing twitter brownshirts."
?
Why isn't there a media expectation that this kid is OWED an apology?
NBC chose to show the part of the cheers that looks like the fascist salute.
"You dumb bitch, when those interns were screaming and clawing at the door in Matt Lauer's rape room do you wish you had done something differently. Some dreadlocked asshole was calling me an incest baby and a faggot and then some toothless asshole comes up and starts banging a war drum in my face. What's the proper way to react, you feckless cunt,". Such an answer would be sincere and heartfelt but would not have helped him win the battle for the hearts and minds of the American public.
"Nobody is responsible for their own actions but the white boy. And this is not at all racist in their Nice White Liberal mind."
That has, perhaps, been the weirdest thing about this. Do they not see how racist it is to treat people of color as if they don't count?
Plus, wasn't the whole thing really a great, quintessentially American scene? All these disagreeing groups out in public saying all kinds of things, a free speech free for all, and nobody gets violent. We should be talking about what a great country this is.
Robert Cook said...
If Mr. Phillips is a veteran protestor, it seems odd--unlikely, frankly--that he would be unnerved by a gaggle of teen boys
Yes, it does seem very odd. If he had been unnerved I'd expect him to stop his incessant drum banging and GTFO. So I guess we agree that he's completely full of shit.
William said
"My suspicion is that she was setting traps for him, hoping that he would give the kind of response that could later be used against him."
That is exactly what she was doing. and she would NEVER do that to anyone in The Party.
The worst you can say is that he seemed coached and rehearsed in his answers
He also looked like he was in shock. Did he even blink?
At least he's a live Trayvon.
Interesting that when they found recent pictures of Trayvon Martin, he looked much older, but when we get an up-to-date picture of this kid, he looks much younger. By the way, the correct, ethical, moral response when you realize the target of your ire is just a kid is feeling ashamed.
Every adult who piled on this child should feel ashamed. If you don't feel shame, you are so blinded by politics that you forgot what it's like to be a real human being.
"He should have just turned around."
Any reason to believe that Phillips was simply looking to pass through the crowd of kids, as opposed to deliberately bang a drum in their faces to provoke a reaction? If the latter, there was really nothing that Sandmann could have done to avoid the confrontation, short of running away.
@Rick:
Not true, they convinced Lyndon Johnson not to run again and convinced Nixon to seek/accept a negotiated withdrawal.
The war continued for seven years after that. I also do not think it is accurate to say that Lyndon Johnson chose not to run because of the protests. See this piece by Johnson biographer Vaughn Davis Bornet.
"Do you feel that you owe anybody an apology? Do you see your own faults in any way?"
"Second question betrays a bias against him"
Actually, the first did.
Recalibrate ;)
"Every adult who piled on this child should feel ashamed."
They will not feel shame. This is for a greater cause. Orange Man bad.
Why does Savannah Guthrie insist on living right on top of a sacred Native Indigian burial ground!? Why doesn't that racist go back to Europe?
Red Caps, yellow journalism.
Seems like he did ok but I question the wisdom of letting him go on at all.
The Media are not your friend--they should be treated as an enemy who desires your destruction. If they happen to get something right once in a while it should be thought of as a lucky accident and nothing more.
Robert Cook said...
"If Mr. Phillips is a veteran soccer player, it seems odd--unlikely, frankly--that he would be hurt so easily"
https://youtu.be/f3HebsWpZ1Q
Yes, how very "odd"
Blogger Leland said...I don't understand the arguments that the kid should have walked away. Why did he have to give up his freedom of speech and assembly simply because the other person wanted him to leave? Sure, it would have de-escalated the event, but then that seems to be the way the left wants us to behave these days. If they disagree with you, they want you to leave; the restaurant, twitter, and now any public space. Standing one's ground is noble, particularly when all they are doing is standing for their own right to... stand!
The "hasty retreat" response should be known as the Mitt Romney response.
I don't watch the network news--are they updating stories to show that "Vietnam times veteran" Philips never went overseas (despite his saying people spit on him when he "came back") and worked as an electrician and refrigeration repairman and not a "recon ranger" as he previously said? Or that his DD214 shows 3 AWOL incidents, probably explaining how he got out as an E-1 after 4 years?
Probably not, I'd bet. I saw the WashPo add a correction to one story and read CNN updated a transcript, but nothing else from the mainstream sources yet.
The search for the great white defendant will continue unabated.
Judging by the incidents which garner outrage and plenty of news coverage, white people almost never violate the rules of PC*, so these trivial incidents - even the initial descriptions were of something quite trivial - which They thought were "man bites dog" news, have to serve as a stand-in for real racism and such.
By the way, a few days ago in Delaware four black boys aged 12-14 lured a 13-year-old lured a 13-year-old girl into a house and gang raped her.
That's "dog bites man" and "just a local news story".
* e.g. "Indians are better than you". This poor brainwashed kid still "respects" the creepy old lying asshole who set him up.
Remember how Harvard decided to accept anti-gun activist David Hogg, who'd been turned down by his earlier college choices? Want to bet they're not quite so eager to give Nick Sandmann a nod?
"Every adult who piled on this child should feel ashamed. If you don't feel shame, you are so blinded by politics that you forgot what it's like to be a real human being."
Consult the comments section in the NYT. There are lots of folks out there who see this completely differently: white privilege, Kentucky, Catholic, MAGA hat, private school, Trump, mocking Vietnam era veteran, mocking native American. It's all BAD, BAD, BAD.
And how do you feel about David Hogg? I think he's a little putz who climbed to Harvard admission on the backs of his dead schoolmates. Does that make me a bad person? Am I so blinded by politics that I have forgotten what it's like to be a real human being?
A lot of people are being dragged (or vaulting) into the public square from total obscurity by social media. The MSM, who should know better, are adding accelerant to the fire.
Sad.
Did they their acceptance letter had a whole host of flags in it,
While Inga is frantically digging for more proof that the MAGA hats are the lowest form of teenage scum and deserve the powerful wrath of uber-powerful David Hogg, Lord of the Flies..
Kathy Griffin Falsely Accuses Covington Catholic Basketball Players of Throwing Up ‘Nazi Sign’
Don't give up, Brownshirted gals, the truth is out there. You'll get there.
I was wondering why Grand Tribal Toothless Elder Phillips hadn't availed himself of VA dentistry, so I checked eligibility requirements. Since it appears that he only served as a Reservist, he didn't qualify. That is to say, he's not even a "Vietnam era veteran."
The guy hasn't made a single factual statement about himself, and yet Mr. Sandmann is supposed to grovel before him? So glad Nick told Savannah Guthrie to basically FOAD. The kid's a mensch.
Election 2040: Sandmann vs. Hogg. If we're still having elections by then.
He should have just turned around.
You think he took a lot of abuse for smiling? Imagine the outrage if he'd turned his back on the man.
The war continued for seven years after that.
That it took a while is not relevant, the trigger remains. It's revealing you cite the end of the war instead of date we withdrew. Was the relevant information not sufficient to support your point?
Your source claims Johnson decided not to run in 68 due to medical issues and these were known throughout including the period before the campaign. This seems inconsistent with his decision to enter the primaries and then drop out after he started losing them. However it is not inconsistent with authors who need a controversial hook to sell books.
Lyndon Johnson chose not to run because he was going to lose, and the mass protests were a big part of convincing people to vote on that specific issue. Without them the Vietnam impact is more like Korea.
Shorter NBC: when will you apologize for existing and die white boy?
Exactly although there were more mistakes committee before we committed the bulk of our forces notably the diem coup, the russiams faced a similar problem when their spetznaz executed Amin, a putative ally. One member of that zenith unit puteyev was the runner of the Chapman ring years later
The entire narrative on the Left is that the white man is standing in the way of everyone else's progress.
The problem with Sandmann wasn't the expression on his face. It was that his face looked like that while he was not stepping aside for a person of color.
Plus, wasn't the whole thing really a great, quintessentially American scene? All these disagreeing groups out in public saying all kinds of things, a free speech free for all, and nobody gets violent. We should be talking about what a great country this is.
Exactly, Freeman! That's why it's hard to believe even the first narrative out was outrage. Three different groups exercising their First Amendment privilege in Washington DC with no violence. It's exactly how things should be!!!
I am touched by the charity of "They were rambunctious."
I hope Nick's parents are also planning to sue Covington Catholic HS and the diocese that runs it. These shitheads sent their students to participate in the March for Life. Then the kids get wholly predictable abuse from the usual crackpots who show up at any rally and the adults who sent them there disown them at the first sign that their own lives might become...complicated.
The principal is unfit to lead, and so is the bishop.
Perhaps these two could talk about the importance of dental care. In particular, the availability/cost problems for some in this country.
Make lemonade.
I'm a uniter. And a problem solver.
Sugar free lemonade.
When will we build The Wall along the Mason-Dixon line? That would make for a more "perfect union." "Good Walls Make Good Neighbors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_More_Perfect_Union_%28speech%29
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/264168/good-walls-make-good-neighbors-daniel-greenfield
All sorts of still shots at sporting events could be construed as "NAZI SALUTES!"
A new industry is born.
We need more leftwing Still Shot Police. If you are caught with your hand in the air, and it can be twisted to mean a NAZI SALUTE - you are GUILTY. Off with your head.
I hereby nominate David Hogg and Kathy Griffin as Sporting Event Still Shot Police.
CAREFUL.
@Rick:
That it took a while is not relevant, the trigger remains. It's revealing you cite the end of the war instead of date we withdrew. Was the relevant information not sufficient to support your point?
I think that confuses cause and effect. Voter weariness was not because of protests but because the war was going south. That is, the weariness and the protests shared the same cause as opposed to the protests causing the weariness.
I do not agree with Adam Garfinkle a great deal, but I think here he makes a correct point:
"The protesters’ myth is really more interesting. With every passing year one gets the impression that virtually all Sixties types were at antiwar protests. (They were all at Woodstock, too.) It has become unassailable gospel that the protests were noble and effective. They may have been nobly intended, but there is nothing but aging egos and pure wind to sustain the notion that they were effective in stopping or shortening the war. There is evidence, however, that the protests lengthened the war and that more people were killed on account of them."
Trumpit--The problems in this country aren't North/South anymore. Get in the 21st century, dude. All my liberal friends are sure that it is still 1963.
Look at this kid. Hear this kid. And realize just how clouded his future is.
He is 16. When he is 18, he will start to find that the powers that be have marked him for abuse, or worse. At 21-22, he will find himself in Vaclav Havels position under communist persecution, an untouchable unfit for a profession or anything but menial work.
They will do this to make an example.
He is going to need help.
That's narrative the organizers of the antiwar operations re Iraq and Afghanistan went to school on that, and they found Obama who pretended to be McCarthy, and the embryo Islamic state could pretend they drove the us out.
Plus, wasn't the whole thing really a great, quintessentially American scene? All these disagreeing groups out in public saying all kinds of things, a free speech free for all, and nobody gets violent.
I think for liberals; such a scene must have beer. Otherwise, people will act stupidly. For me, particularly since nobody got violent; I'm trying to figure out why this would have been local news, much less national news. This is such a non-story, my biggest issue was that it was covered at all, at least in a negative way. Maybe a story, as you suggest, "Two disagreeing parties meet in public and voice their opinions peacefully".
The point being stannard is an utter fraud, the imdian version of Richard Blumenthal whose been trolling us for nearly 20 years now.
Blogger stevew said...
"Do you feel that you owe anybody an apology? Do you see your own faults in any way?"
Second question betrays a bias against him. I will watch more of this to see if that assessment is correct.
First, I agree with you.
Second, I gather that NBC is parceling out little bits of this interview over time, which I think can only be interpreted as a craven attempt to maximize dramatic tension and ratings at the expense of our understanding the gist of the interview. Journalistic malpractice by NBC.
However a better, fairer question would have been put to Nick’s classmates (or to Nick about them); “What about the Tomahawk Chop? Do you regret that?”
Nick Sandmann may well owe no explanation on that one. With his gaze locked on Nathan Phillips, he might not have seen it. He wasn’t doing it. Which adds to questions about how NBC handled the interview.
The "hasty retreat" response should be known as the Mitt Romney response.
I think if Mitt had stood his ground in the debate; he certainly would be more respected.
Blogger Michael Fitzgerald said...
When do they interview the Black Hebrews?
The Black Hebrews are a source for a two hour video that doesn't show the students behaving well.
In the first hour of a two hour video taken by the Black Hebrews, four members of the fringe Black Hebrew Israelites sect are standing well in front of (not on, as Sandmann claimed) the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on the patio that leads to the reflecting pool. They were facing the Washington Monument, away from the memorial steps. They never moved from this spot.
At 59:09, the video pans to the steps of the memorial, well behind the Hebrew Israelites and it’s clear that sometime in the prior 15 minutes or so, a large group of the Covington Catholic High School teens has assembled there. The Hebrew Israelites still have their back to the steps. The man making the video says, “Take a look at these Make America Great Again crackers,” apparently referring to the large group.
At 1:05:00, it is clear that the group of teens behind the Hebrew Israelites has grown much larger and they begin to further engage the Black Hebrew Israelites by yelling from behind them, catcalling them; one of the Hebrew Israelites turns around at 1:06:00 to engage the boys briefly and turns back. The students continue to talk to the Hebrew Israelites from the steps. At about 1:08:00 the Covington Catholic students start chanting and jeering, though it is hard to hear what they are saying. At 1:09:51, a student runs down the stairs to face the others. He throws off his jacket, sweatshirt, and t-shirt, and naked from the waist up, starts jumping up and down and leading some sort of loud and grunting chant. The Black Hebrew Israelites never leave the spot they have been at this entire time.
Then the crowd of teens gets even rowdier. They are clearly taunting the Black men. Some of the teens move onto the patio and closer to the men, who still for the most part face away from them, talking to others. The teens are dancing and chanting. Then suddenly they huddle. At around 1:12:20 you can hear faint drumming of Phillips walking slowly into the picture, a distance away from the stairs.
Sandmann claims in his letter that “The protestor everyone has seen in the video began playing his drum as he waded into the crowd, which parted for him.” First of all, Phillips was not a “protestor.” Second, this is clearly not what happens in the video. Instead, the teens surround Phillips and start hopping, chanting, chopping hands, laughing. By 1:13:00 there is a very large crowd of teens surrounding Phillips; they are openly mocking him. There’s nothing respectful about it. If there is a chaperone or teacher around the vicinity, it is not obvious, and if as Sandmann asserts, they asked for and received permission from a teacher to do what they in fact did…well then, as a parent, I am aghast.
The Hebrew Israelites video focuses back on the teens who move closer to the Hebrew Israelites, some clearly taunting them again. Finally at 1:17:17 someone yells for the students to back up, but instead they quickly re-converge around and engage the Hebrew Israelites at which point the Hebrew Israelites themselves ask the teens several times to step back. From there until the end of the video, the Black Hebrew Israelites and teens are talking back and forth until it appears they leave.
Sandmann’s letter states: “I never felt like I was blocking the Native American protestor. He did not make any attempt to go around me. It was clear to me that he had singled me out for a confrontation, although I am not sure why.”
But as this video shared on Twitter by Waleed Shahid shows, Phillips was surrounded by jumping, whooping, mocking teens. Sandmann is in the background smiling. It does not appear to me that Phillips “singled him out” for confrontation. That assertion also appears to be a lie.
Leland,
You simply have no idea about the process occurring here. You still live in a world of the past. These kids were targets of opportunity of a propaganda system closer to that of Maoist China than to US tradition. And this in the context of an economic system closer to Italian corporatist Fascism than the US of even the 1980s.
And worse, potentially, than either of those because of enhanced information technology.
I bet there are some still shots out there of KATHY GRIFFIN giving the NAZI SALUTE.
Find them!
Gadfly - so do tell us how these boys are white supremacists. oh right - some of them like Trump and that's all it takes.
I could not watch that video. That poor kid, oh man.
The adults who brought kids to a pro-life march and then let this happen to them--and then criticized them--should be ashamed, deeply, and angry at themselves.
This kid is a victim and my heart goes out to him.
And the media people who are still attacking him are despicable people.
Yes the invisible serf collar blog has outlined the essentially Soviet origin of constructivist education of which nclb programs like ignite (sponsored by gulf state investors) and common core are just the most recent iteration.
For me, particularly since nobody got violent; I'm trying to figure out why this would have been local news, much less national news.
The target is the Walk for Life and the Catholic church. And, implicitly and sometimes overtly, Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
Understand now?
Blogger Freeman Hunt said...
...
...
Plus, wasn't the whole thing really a great, quintessentially American scene? All these disagreeing groups out in public saying all kinds of things, a free speech free for all, and nobody gets violent. We should be talking about what a great country this is.
A fascinating comment, with lots of merit.
But while the American institution of free speech is glorified, the individuals involved in this case — the hateful radical Black Hebrew Israelites; the professional protestor Nathan Phillips; and the smartassed high schoolers doing the Tomahawk Chop — each had their own major/minor disgraces.
Chuck sees a young man being subject to a show trial ala Kafka and has nothing of consequence to say,
Sandmann should have worn his hat at the interview. I would have.
After careful consideration and trying to assess all sides of the situation, I am ready to lay blame. This whole debacle could have been avoided if the Chaperones had done their damn job.
You can't blame the Black Hebrew Israelites. Their raison d'etre is to antagonize and get a rise out of middle class white people. You can no more blame them than you can blame the scorpion for stinging the frog.
As for the Native American man. It is perfectly reasonable to think that he misinterpreted the situation. He was confronted with a large group engaging a much smaller group of people. It is natural to assume the larger group (no matter what color) was the antagonist.
I can not blame the high school kids. The raison d'etre of a male high school student is to be an obnoxious jerk, especially when they are in a large group. That is why adult supervision is so important.
No, especially if Sandmann's account is accurate, and he asked permission of the Chaperones to start chanting, the Chaperones were dead wrong. As adults, they should have realized that a negative response was exactly what the BHI protesters desired. And as good chaperones they should have recommended an alternative activity. What would have been particularly effective would have sent the group across the street to the Vietnam War Memorial. One of the chaperones could have stayed behind to call them when the bus arrived. If anything is going to defuse a situation, it is standing in front of that wall of names, especially if the boys were reminded that most of the young men (and a few women) listed on wall were only a few years older than them when they died.
And yes, too many people (on both sides) did jump to conclusions with inadequate information.
He is 16. When he is 18, he will start to find that the powers that be have marked him for abuse, or worse.
He's applying for colleges a few months from now.
I don't know what his grades are like, but if he applies to Notre Dame, they ought to let him in. Or any Catholic university, for that matter.
Chuck refuses to see reality. Or he is gaslighting all of us.
The second is far more likely.
You are in a desperate state.
buwaya, it's not hard to see what happened. I just don't see getting outraged about it. The original argument about the kid tells you how to respond to them. They hate mockery, so mock them. If you need example, follow the Internet meme's of Jim Acosta roaming the US looking for a crisis and not finding one. You could super impose Acosta over the photo of this incident and note no crisis was found here either.
@gadfly: If there's one thing I've learned from this, it's to give no credence whatsoever to some political hack's description of what he "saw" in any of these videos. He's surely banking on the fact that nobody's going to sit through 2 tedious hours of video, and will instead just take his word for it. In fact, I suspect that a major purpose of his film review was to give his fellow partisans something to cut and paste wherever their narrative needs help.
Here's a tidbit from this guy's dispassionate analysis:
The boys were wearing #MAGA hats, “March for Life” sweatshirts, and toting bottles of “Trump water,” which in several videos they can be seen proudly exhibiting to others around them.
Clearly asking for trouble.
"Your right to ree speech ends when your chin comes too close to my fist," seems to be this guy's credo.
Hide your white sons. Whiteness will be a crime in two decades. Revoked full citizenship for white males. Once Texas goes blue its only a matter of time. Teach them how to shoot guns and buy as much bitcoin as you can. The left has completely lost their minds. If you aren't scared yet, then you're utterly blind to what is happening.
You can't blame the Black Hebrew Israelites. Their raison d'etre is to antagonize and get a rise out of middle class white people.
So put them on TV. Unbelievable that you describe human beings as "scorpions" and decide they are blameless.
You have really low standards for people of color, FF. Why don't you adopt a single standard for all of humanity? It's easier, nicer, simpler, better.
The target is the Walk for Life and the Catholic church.
The very church that used these kids as human shields at the first sign of trouble.
Leland,
Acosta and his like are invulnerable. These kids aren't.
Mockery from vulnerable people isn't going to help - it will just mark them for retaliation, deplatforming or defunding. Thats what happened to Yiannopoulos and any number of others.
"Sandmann should have worn his hat at the interview. I would have."
What a waste of breath, you are.
Freder's mom should probably monitor his computer time.
I stumbled on VH1 the other day while it was airing heavy metal videos from the 80s. Twisted Sister, Dio, etc. Watching those videos all these years later, it's preposterous that actual adults were seriously concerned that these guys in glammed up outfits singing ridiculous songs were Satanists attempting to convert the country's youth to some demonic cult. Yet, this was the prevailing thought for a lot of parents back then. Feels relevant after watching purported adults claim high school basketball players are promoting "white power" through hand signals.
Sandmann stood his ground in the interview...... again- I admire that. The kid has a lot of courage.
Gadfly, you left out all the nasty, racist, homophobic insults and threats the BHI hurled at just about everybody, especially the Covington boys.
The students pushed back against the hate, and then they simply walked away and did their own thing, chanting their own school cheers, ignoring the BHI shitbags, while BHI kept taunting and insulting them further.
Phillips approached them from at least 20 yards away, mingling with them (being "surrounded" by people who did not move). Phillips was surrounded by "jumping, whooping, mocking teens" because he deliberated surrounded himself by them. Phillips changed direction to get directly in Sandmann's face, and banged his drum inches from his face, a hostile act.
But you know that.
The teens did no wrong at all. Sandmann committed Facecrime against a holy POC.
If the Rashomon incident were recorded on video, would it still be a Rashomon incident? Yes. There is absolutely no evidence that can be submitted that will establish the innocence of these kids and the assholery of the adults who confronted them.......It would be unfair and racist to claim that the blacks should stop using words like faggot and incest babies when addressing high school students. It would be unfair and racist to assert that banging a war drum inches from someone's face is not usually construed as a song for peace and a conciliatory act. No, the only possible way for this situation to have been diffused would have been for the students to take off their MAGA hats and apologize for their own existence in this country. Ironically, that's the true, sure path towards making America great again. If only these kids had the wit and compassion to understand this. Well, don't blame Phillips and the black Israelites. They tried their best.
If the chaperones gave permission to chant, they were dead wrong? First off, the students didn't need permission for that. Second, Jesus said "Turn the other cheek"; he didn't say "Bend over and take it up the ass".
Unbelievable that you describe human beings as "scorpions" and decide they are blameless.
The scorpion and the frog is an allegory, you moron.
And I don't have a low opinion of people of color (any color, including white) in general. But I do have a low opinion of some people of all races. Confronting the Klan through engaging them in "debate" is pointless. So is giving the BHI exactly the reaction they were looking for.
Yes catholic action which was the youth group behind some of the resistance in the early years of Fidel seizing power, men like Manuel stone who was the political chief of the brigade unlike say the San Roman brothers who were the military ones.
@JCA1:
You should watch the testimony of Al Gore questioning Dee Snider back in the mid-80s after Tipper wife got the music labeling ball rolling. Pretty funny stuff. Probably one of the few times that a phrase like "Sick Motherfucking Friends of Twisted Sister" made it into the Congressional record.
Freder Frederson said...
After careful consideration and trying to assess all sides of the situation, I am ready to lay blame.
After careful consideration I am ready to point out how Freder's conclusions can only be reached by carefully omitting far more damaging evidence against those he supports than he uses to damn those he dislikes.
You can't blame the Black Hebrew Israelites. Their raison d'etre is to antagonize and get a rise out of middle class white people. You can no more blame them than you can blame the scorpion for stinging the frog.
This is clearly a newly invented standard for Freder and the left. If this were a principle it would have applied to the Westboro Baptist Church among many other groups. But the left media cited WBC actions tens of thousands of times and used their actions to smear the religious right and conservatives generally.
As for the Native American man. It is perfectly reasonable to think that he misinterpreted the situation. He was confronted with a large group engaging a much smaller group of people.
This conclusion omits essentially all the evidence against Phillips. He lied about his own actions claiming others approached and surrounded him when in fact he walked into their group. In his first interview he benignly described the BHIs as older black gentlemen trying to keep the knowledge of their role out of the public evaluation. And most importantly his banging a drum 4 inches from someone's face is an outrageous provocation and shows he was not interested in peacemaking but in fact was trying to trigger a confrontation.
Each of these omissions is vastly more important than any of the allegations used to justify criticizing the students.
The kids were at the carnival and stopped to look at the geek. I see no particular wrong or meanness in those boys.
The scorpion and the frog is an allegory, you moron.
Yeah, I know. It's a stupid allegory.
And I don't have a low opinion of people of color (any color, including white) in general. But I do have a low opinion of some people of all races. Confronting the Klan through engaging them in "debate" is pointless. So is giving the BHI exactly the reaction they were looking for.
You acquitted them of wrong-doing, which was a stupid thing to say. And you brought up a stupid allegory to defend your stupid assertion.
Now they're the Klan? Why can't I blame the Klan for evil shit? Why would you excuse them for their behavior?
Gadfly and the others are preaching a kind of perverted form of white supremacy. White people are infinitely perfectible. With effort and a little instruction, they can achieve the kind of moral perfection enjoyed by gadfly. The black Israelites and Phillips may have some minor flaws, but these are directly attributable to to the racism and oppression they experienced at the hands of evil fiendslike Sandmann. Did you see that smirk. My God it was unendurable. We know from our study of history that the good people of Dahomey and Comanchia lived in perfect peace and harmony until the arrival of the white man. Women lived in an especially blissful state. Then guys like Sandmann showed up with their guns, germs and smirks and destroyed paradise.......Once we understand that men like Phillips and the black Israelites live in a state of child like innocence and that only clever devils like Sandmann are capable of moral agency can we rectify America's problems.
Let's play "What if the Black Hebrew Israelites were white?"
And Nathan Phillips, the guy who pretended he was Vietnam war veteran, and pretended that he was being attacked by a group of kids who might kill him at any minute...
...tried to interrupt a Catholic mass the next day.
Each of these omissions is vastly more important than any of the allegations used to justify criticizing the students.
And I am not criticizing the students. I am blaming their adult chaperones for allowing the situation to escalate.
Maybe they could have a beer summit.
Underage kids like beer summits.
Do you see your own faults in any way?
That’s the sort of question Savannah Guthrie might ask herself.
Underage kids like beer summits.
Its been reported that Catholic underage boys, and particularly girls, like beer summits. But with today's media, such reports need to be taken with a grain of salt; sort of like Tecate.
And I am not criticizing the students. I am blaming their adult chaperones for allowing the situation to escalate.
You are blaming white people for their failure to live up to your high, high standards.
And you are holding non-white people as blameless, because you have very low standards for them.
See also your double standards for Christians and non-Christians, FF.
Run away from bullies seems to be Freder's advice.
@ Not Sure - "Let's play "What if the Black Hebrew Israelites were white?"
Let's see..... white people screaming about the perfidy of white people. That makes them.... Democrats?
2. The police have provoked and been needlessly aggressive toward protestors in many cases.
@Cookie, in recent decades. These days, especially, they tend to show way too much restraint when dealing with antifa.
"These days, especially, they tend to show way too much restraint when dealing with antifa."
Who is talking about antifa? I'm talking about protests in general.
And I am not criticizing the students. I am blaming their adult chaperones for allowing the situation to escalate.
You claimed the chaperones are at fault because the kids were "obnoxious jerk[s]"s. Each of the items you omit to exonerate Phillips is vastly more important than any of the evidence the kids were "obnoxious jerk[s]". It's a sign of your dishonesty you hide behind this irrelevant distinction.
While the chaperones are at fault is's because they should have anticipated this political theater and interposed themselves between the students and the BHIs / Phillips. It's not because smiling and booing people calling them faggots is obnoxious.
"That kid handled himself very well for his age. I'd a cold-cocked that fucking retard Injun so he would never get up for getting in my face."
For what? Banging his drum and singing? That would have been a dick move warranting your arrest.
Via Insty and it was posted in all caps:
THE ARTICLE RELATES TO OTHER STUFF, SO LINKED HERE. BUT LET’S SAY THIS MAN IS A SAD CREATURE DETERMINED TO GET VENGEANCE ON PEOPLE WHO NEVER DID HIM ANY HARM FOR REAL OR IMAGINARY (BUT MOSTLY IMAGINARY) ILLS DONE TO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE SOME VAGUE OR DISTANT GENETIC RELATIONSHIP TO HIM. MR. PHILLIPS IS A VICTIM OF SOCIAL JUSTICE AND THE NOBLE SAVAGE MYTH. THEY’RE EATING HIM FROM THE INSIDE: A Pattern Emerges.
There’s a list of what this guy has been involved with.
I wish I had the money to do these things.
Robert Cook said...
"That kid handled himself very well for his age. I'd a cold-cocked that fucking retard Injun so he would never get up for getting in my face."
For what? Banging his drum and singing?
I don't agree with punching him but note how the resident leftists protect Phillips by omitting the range of his actions. He didn't bang a drum and sing. He did it 4 inches from someone face. It is this very fact which makes it a provocation and they simply cannot bring themselves to reference it because admitting it exists makes their assertion nonsensical.
Does anyone believe these leftists would describe someone screaming the Rosary 4 inches from someone's face merely as "reciting the rosary"? It's absurd. They just can't help themselves.
"The implication was that protesters are often "antagonized by armed police" which is melodramatic...."
Nope. I described the police as the antagonists of the protesters. That is not the same thing. Two or more active parties on dividing lines of an issue are antagonists, even if no violence occurs.
And...unwarranted police violence does occur often enough not to be surprising.
Phillips was certainly being provocative, but he was not violent and did not imply he would become violent.
NPR interviewed Nathan Phillips. It was quite interesting. In the edited interview, Phillips was asked about the Black Hebrew Israelites and he described them as nuts; a group that he compared to the Westboro Church “protestors.” Obviously, NPR had made the clear editorial decision to not only pose that question but to leave in the answer.
That's not what he said in his first interviews.
Damage control.
This is disgusting.... The media won’t even describe “black Israelites” as a black supremacist hate group.....
Why is that?
A bunch of leftists are now blaming the kids for responding with dancing and chanting to a hate group’s vicious attacks on them. Why?
The white kids are also blamed for “showing disrespect”... Is this the new standard? This is from the folks who applaud the nutcases who call our president “motherfucker” on public TV....
Note that the white kids did not even push the black haters and did not touch the lying “Vietnam veteran”...
And yet, these kids are supposed to apologize? For what?
Shouldn’t NBC apologize for its lying?
And one more thing - remember Roxanne... She was fired from her own show for making a non-violent joke about a leftist politician. How many journalists and celebrities will be fired for attacking these kids?
Who is talking about antifa? I'm talking about protests in general.
@Cookie, you flunked math, I take it? Antifa is a subset of “protests in general.” Any solution addressing “protests in general,” must, of necessity, cope with left wing violence as well.
Weirdly, President Trump is much older than the so-called “elder”, the fake Vietnam veteran....
Yet, he gets no respect from the children who work at nbc.....
The very church that used these kids as human shields at the first sign of trouble.
I think the Walk of Life is organized and they like to get the numbers up.
They weren't planning on using kids as "human shields," that's stupid.
I'm sure the kids volunteered for a class field trip. We get out of class! We can go to Washington D.C.! Fun! That was what they were thinking.
It's probably a bad idea to invite kids to the Walk of Life. It's a political protest about infanticide and baby-killing. It's a serious political protest and there are risks. It should probably be adult-only.
On the other hand, it's mostly kids who have abortions. And it's babies who are being killed.
I feel bad for the young people in our society. They are living in an abortion culture that was created by 9 senior citizens, acting like dictators, who have no concept what a "person" is.
People see this as black vs. white, or left vs. right.
Maybe it's adults vs. kids.
Does anyone thinks that if the roles were reversed, and the kids were black students wearing a Obama’s shirts and BLM paraphenilia, and they encountered a few KKK activists, screaming insults at them.... the media would have attacked the kids for “disrespect”?
MLK was very, very good at organizing his protests and making sure that people who were on the march were disciplined and self-controlled and "on message."
I don't remember seeing any children at his protests. I might be wrong. But it seems like mostly adults.
Because his protests were dangerous by their very nature.
The Walk of Life is not a party or a fun field trip. Infanticide is an evil thing.
That the media is consumed by this non-event--while still hiding and covering up the infanticides in our culture--is, of course, disgraceful.
Excellent op-ed in the Catholic Herald: Dear Covington Boys: Everyone Failed You
Robert Cook said...
Phillips was certainly being provocative, but he was not violent and did not imply he would become violent.
Now try the correction instead of trying to move on and imply the only issue is whether he is violent:
For what? Banging his drum [4 inches from someone's face] and singing?
I suspect there's a pretty large segment of this country who upon reading this would say: I don't think I would do it but I'm not too upset about someone who does either.
When you intentionally use societal norms to advantage yourself and damage other people we should consider that decision your agreement that those norms should no longer apply to you.
I wouldn't have punched the Indian, but he sure had a smirk coming to him.
Freder: “And yes, too many people (on both sides) did jump to conclusions with inadequate information.”
Unlike Freder who jumped to an absurd, indefensible conclusion despite having adequate information.
They weren't planning on using kids as "human shields," that's stupid.
I didn't say they planned to do that. I described their behavior as soon as the kids came under attack.
Try to pay attention.
Freder, little miss can't be wrong.
The Walk of Life is not a party or a fun field trip.
There's a piece up at First Things by an Irish journalist who attended the march that touches on that:
The exuberance and good humor of the boys seems to have been what attracted the attentions of the various malcontents the Covington boys ran foul of. Though I have no criticism to make of those boys, I respectfully submit that the episode supports a feeling I had about the march in general: Its tone has become unmoored from the gravity of its subject matter.
Like anyone else, my wife and I were in a happy mood when we set out for the march. The buzz when we arrived at the Mall was extraordinary and there appeared to be considerably more people present than the last time I attended—upwards of half-a-million. People were standing around chatting and laughing, sipping coffee, telling stories, making each other laugh. Many of them were young and exuberant despite having traveled for hours on cramped coaches. Their numbers brought great joy to the clouded souls of these two Irish pilgrims.
But as the march edged its way toward Constitution Avenue, and the gaiety continued, I began to think that maybe this was not the best way to mark the gravity of this Holocaust of our time. I could see that the celebratory mood—celebratory of undoubted achievements of the American pro-life movement—was in a sense justified and essential to the continuing success of the event. But I also realized that the march has become more a celebration of pro-life energies than a commemoration of abortion victims. The unbroken atmosphere of joyousness begins to wear thin after a while.
I don't remember failing the Covington Boys, and I really wish that the people who clearly did would stop dragging the rest of us into their apologies.
Robert Cook @ 11:41A.M.
"Phillips was certainly being provocative, but he was not violent and did not imply that he would become violent."
I disagree with your assessment of the situation. Sandmann was standing away from Phillips. Phillips and his group, he was not alone, walked intentionally and directly to Sandmann. The kid did absolutely nothing to Phillips or the group of men with Phillips to cause them to select and confront him. That is exactly what Phillips and the group of men with Phillips did when they approached and encapsulated Sandman. That in itself is a very aggressive gesture. If you watch the video you will observe grown men directly in front of, to the side and slightly behind Sandmann many with cameras in hopes of catching a violent response to Phillips' and his group's extremely provocative actions
Then Phillips further attempts to escalate the chance for a response by moving well into Sandman's personal space and continuing his very loud persistent chant, at a level grossly inappropriate for someone within inches of someone else's face. To be even more provocative Phillips proceeded to maneuver himself so that at times the tomtom he was using to beat the was swinging repeatedly at Sandman's eye level well within six inches of the kid's face and eyes.
Getting that close to someone and shouting and swinging an object within mere inches of their face and eyes was intentionally meant to provoke a flight or fight response from the young man they targeted. They had their cameras out in hopes that they would provoke the fight response.
" am blaming their adult chaperones for allowing the situation to escalate"
You mean letting it come to smirks? Social media aside, what should the kid done differently and why? They were waiting for a bus.
There can be no forgiveness for the MAGA hats.
A century ago, democrats wanted to lynch a black man for a smirk on his face when he looked at a white woman. These days they want to lynch a white boy for a smirk on his face when looks at an American Indian.
They really haven’t changed much, have they?
Don’t forget the racist taunts from American Indians towards the kids....
Just the opposite of Traavon or Brown where the first look we had of them was much earlier photos and choir boy descriptions.
THIS kid was presented to us as a smirking bigot wearing a * oh my stars and garters * a MAGA hat!
On reflection Traavon and Brown were thuggish criminals and THIS kid is a quiet, polite boy.
He looks younger without the MAGA cap.
"They really haven’t changed much, have they?"
Yes. The people who were Democrats then are Republicans now.
Robert, are you seriously claiming that a bunch of folks who are talking about beating up these kids are “republicans”?
He was confronted with a large group engaging a much smaller group of people.
He created the confrontation.
Good gawd. I give up with you people.
It's right there in front of your face and you still ignore what happened.
Now they're the Klan? Why can't I blame the Klan for evil shit? Why would you excuse them for their behavior?
I don't know who the "they" in this instance. I was comparing BHI, not the students, to the Klan.
My point is that the best response to some evil, sick, groups, is just to ignore them and walk away. At some point that group may reach a level of acceptance where just ignoring them is no longer an option and they must be forcefully opposed (in the past, the KKK certainly fell under that category). But I doubt BHI even has as many adherents as Westboro Baptist (another group for which the best response is ignore and walk away) has members. Heck, from a quick perusal of Google, it doesn't even appear that BHI has a website. If it does, it is drowned out by all the websites calling it a hate group.
Robert, are you seriously claiming that a bunch of folks who are talking about beating up these kids are “republicans”?
No he's ignorantly claiming that the racist White southern Democrats of yesterday are the racist White Republicans of today.
They were waiting for a bus at that location. It's on liberals that you made fools of yourselves.
Freder is right in the same way that a drunk is right that he wouldn’t have killed those people in the other car if they hadn’t been driving on that street when they obviously could have been driving on some other street.
Social media aside, what should the kid done differently and why?
I told you, they should have all walked over to the Vietnam Veterans' Memorial until the buses came. It is right across from the Lincoln Memorial, and I doubt even the most hardcore BHI hater would have the balls to follow them and harass them there. It just isn't done. On the other hand, all kinds of wackos hang out and say obnoxious things around the Lincoln Memorial.
Freder is right in the same way that a drunk is right that he wouldn’t have killed those people in the other car if they hadn’t been driving on that street when they obviously could have been driving on some other street.
And I suppose your reaction to a drunk driver is to speed up, cut in front of him to stop him, and effect a citizen's arrest.
No. The kids had a right to be there and all that happened was some awkwardness. The bad stuff that happened didn't happen there, it was done by online haters, all liberals.
You are just embarrassed and flailing to find someone, anyone besides liberals to blame. It's utterly transparent.
"He's stealing my narrative!"--Nathan (Rambo) Phillips
Boston Globe headlines this interview with "In hindsight, I wish we could have walked away and avoided the whole thing." Puts just the right - er, left - spin on a video clip most people likely won't bother to open.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा