“We decided last week to launch a military incursion into the east of the Euphrates River and shared that information with the public,” Erdogan said at a meeting of the Turkish Exporters Assembly in Istanbul.
“Our phone call with President Trump, along with contacts between our diplomats and security officials and statements by the United States, have led us to wait a little longer,” he said, referring to a phone call between the two leaders last Friday.
Still, he said, Turkey's military is planning to launch the offensive in several months, with the aim of “eliminating” both the Kurdish YPG, or People's Protection Units, and Islamic State remnants.
२१ डिसेंबर, २०१८
"Turkey will delay a planned offensive against Kurdish forces in Syria's northeast, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Friday, citing talks with the U.S. president and other officials."
WaPo reports this morning.
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Turkish Battle Plans in Chaos!!
Not sure what our goal in Syria was/is. But we sure have treated the Kurds horribly.
"But we sure have treated the Kurds horribly."
Do you know for sure that this isn't helping the Kurds? What did Trump know about what Erdogan was about to do and how this most recent move by Trump will change that (and what else Trump might do if Erdogan doesn't control himself)?
The Middle East is the Kobayashi Maru of foreign affairs. No matter what you do, you lose. It could be argued that even if you choose not to play, you still lose. Of course our retraction and disinvolvement will have negative consequences, just as us staying will have negative consequences. The only questions are determining what are real interests are, what the least damaging course of action to achieve those interests is, and what and we're willing to live with.
You can't save everybody who is worth saving with no cost. You can't permanently hem in Iran or guarantee secrurity for Isreal without some bloodshed and some misery.
While I like a good Kobayashi Maru reference as much as the next fellow, maybe the US should just produce oil until we are the world’s largest producer, and then stop caring about the Middle East except for supporting our one dependable ally in the region— Israel.
Then US presidents good give up on the white whale of bringing peace to the region.
Let’s treat every nation there that oppresses women the same way we treated South Africa and Rhodesia under Apartheid.
@Lucien, I actually agree. I no longer believe it's worth it to be involved in the ME other than just generally supporting Isreal with weapons sales and the like now that we don't need their oil anymore. I'm sure there's loads of people who still believe we absolutely need to be involved for any number of reasons. And I'd be willing to listen to their arguments if they're willing to make them.
If we keep selling arms and supplying aid to Israel - and we should - , the Islamic Haters will do something to get our attention. Remember that little thing called 911?
Would that we could just ignore the Mideast. They won't let us.
the Islamic Haters will do something to get our attention. Remember that little thing called 911?
If and when they do, we'll deal with it. I'm not convinced that a very significant permanent military presence in the ME is necessary to exact grievous retribution.
If you had listened to a WORT interview yesterday with an American volunteer who fought along side the Kurds you would understand how capitulating to Erdogan and Putin isn't helping the Kurds according to someone with boots on the ground.
Lucien said...
maybe the US should just produce oil until we are the world’s largest producer, and then stop caring about the Middle East except for supporting our one dependable ally in the region— Israel.
This appears to be Trump's plan. My plan would be to go All IN on molten salt Thorium Breeder Reactors. Six of One, half dozen of the other
The Kurds fate is to get fucked... it is written
If were going to let millions of refugees into the country, why not the Kurds. The British had a concept of martial races and the Kurds qualify. Form them into regiments and include them in our armed forces. They would be doughty fighters.
roesch/voltaire: "If you had listened to a WORT interview yesterday with an American volunteer who fought along side the Kurds you would understand how capitulating to Erdogan and Putin isn't helping the Kurds according to someone with boots on the ground."
LOL
"capitulating to Erdogan and Putin"
Too funny.
The lefty/LLR stupidity on display never gets old!
If it was capitulation to Erdogan, why did it alter Erdogan's plans, eh R/V?
When your plans have clear sailing ahead, you accelerate them, not delay them.
Sort of you and your dem/LLR allies going full steam ahead with open borders to finally get that uneducated 3rd world electorate you always wanted to ensure permanent dem/socialist control. Did you guys slow down when your pathway was cleared by the LLR's who capitulated to you?
No, you accelerated your plans.
I hope this helps you catch on.
I have to admit I don’t really feel I well informed about any of this. I can’t trust any news outlets any more. And there are too few thoughtful knowledgeable commentators
*But we sure have treated the Kurds horribly.*
#1. More Kurds than Hmong who managed to rescue themselves.
#2. We're talking about past policy games by Arabists from USA and UK.
#3. If Israel hands are untied and their RoE are more rational will be good going forward.
#4. If we can manage UN-exit that would bode fantastic for this Century. Manhattan may reclaim American character.
"capitulating to Erdogan and Putin"
OTOH ... Erdogan (and Putin) could've been bluffing and hoping for concessions to stay his hand.
All are unleashed now. I hope.
Why's Assad considered Muslim and Arab?
Alawite are neither.
My understanding is that wine is included in their ritual.
##Would that we could just ignore the Mideast. They won't let us.##
... Because Looking at past hundred years is it even possible to tell who was wagging whom?
well they are probably close to turkic, as with circassians, like Arafat's uncle,
Do you know for sure that this isn't helping the Kurds? What did Trump know about what Erdogan was about to do and how this most recent move by Trump will change that (and what else Trump might do if Erdogan doesn't control himself)?
Well, the Kurds sure don't think it's in any way helpful. And obviously Mattis doesn't think so either. But who can compete with Trump, the multi-dimensional chess master.
President Trump makes the bad guys back down AGAIN! And this infuriates Democrat party members who don't really care who has to die or be ruined for the libs to own Trump.
Our favorite president is a superhero doing great and good things for all Americans and the whole world. Democrat party members hate that because they are villians who only thrive through chaos, deception and coercion.
The Kurds don't like our leaving but this way they are getting a heads up. Turkey was planning to attack them whether we were there or not. We might as well not be there, obviously. I don't know enough about the Kurds' plans but they certainly didn't expect the US to help them form their own country. Where's the UN when you need tough problems solved? /sarc
What's the saying?
Give a man fish, you feed him for a day.
But if you teach him to fish, it's whole another story.
What have USA advisers in the field and in DC Pentagon been up to?
Michael Fitzgerald: "President Trump makes the bad guys back down AGAIN! And this infuriates Democrat party members who don't really care who has to die or be ruined for the libs to own Trump."
President Trump makes the bad guys back down AGAIN! And this infuriates Democrat party members and LLR's who don't really care who has to die or be ruined for the libs to own Trump.
FIFY
the Jordanians and the Saudis are filling the gap, this was our strategy going back to Eisenhower with cento, till nuri al said fell in 58, occasioning the rise of first the left wing leader qaddir (sic) and then the Baathist, then the shah was to fill the gap under Nixon, but he had fallen ill by the time of the ford administration, and carter threw him to the wolves until the fall of 78, according to fall of heaven, it was possible to head off Khomeini,
Qassim, he was dispatched with a poison kerchief, provided by the company, the notion was to have the Baathist which were considered more anticommunists, to provide the leadership, but this came from Copeland and Eichelberger, who were the ones who sponsored Nasser, who also sought out east bloc support, the Baathist continued the dispossession of the kurds and the shia, who then swelled the ranks of the communist and the future da'wa shia militants,
Sauds and UAE agreed to support the Kurds before Trump announced the withdrawal. The plan has been in place for months.
That, or believe NBC, CNN, Fox News....that Trump is so stupid he's going to let the Kurds get slaughtered because....reasons.
Further, most of the 2,000 "troops" are being re-assigned to bases in northern Iraq.
Jordan and Israel are major players in this chess game. No one trusts Erdogan, who sees himself as the next Caliph.
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