The problem with this tweet is that you are a foul, disgusting liar and a stain on American public life. The stench of your deceit and your views pollutes your district, your state, your party, and the United States. https://t.co/6Aate5nHSb— John Podhoretz (@jpodhoretz) December 16, 2018
I had to look up whether John Podhoretz has expressed pieties about civility. I found this quote: "I think making a pretense of civility toward Eric Alterman is like making a pretense of civility to a scorpion" (from a NYT interview). So, I'm only putting the "civility bullshit" tag on this post because I'm discussing it, not because Podhoretz is doing it. I associate The Weekly Standard with the notion of elevating political discourse, but I haven't read it enough to know if they affected a tone of civility and chastised others for not keeping it. I read Podhoretz's quote about King as consistent with his "scorpion" assertion.
I assume the "scorpion" metaphor alludes to the "Scorpion and the Frog" fable:
A scorpion asks a frog to carry it across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, they would both drown. Considering this, the frog agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so....This seems to be the inspiration for that awful snake poem Trump likes to recite.
The origin of "The Scorpion and the Frog" is unknown, but it might have been inspired by an ancient Persian story with a scorpion and a turtle, and there is this nice 1847 illustration for that:
पोस्ट्स
१४४ टिप्पण्या:
I associate The Weekly Standard with the notion of elevating political discourse
Still?
Just a small correction.
It isn't an 'awful snake poem' that Trump references. It is a really good song! by Al Wilson (1963)The Snake
The sentiment is the same as the scorpion and frog though.
I've read or skimmed it for several years, and I'm not sure who Steve King is.
The immediacy of Twitter isn't doing JPod any good.
Blot on the landscape is a more civil insult. P.G.Wodehouse used it.
I haven't kept track, but isn't Podhoretz the son of a cleverer Podhoretz. No matter, neither one had anything to say that didn't seem pointless on beginning to read it.
Thicket with no promise of game.
I associate The Weekly Standard with the notion of elevating political discourse
Losers often see a silver lining that actually the silver nitrate/aluminum in the gunpowder that takes their head afterward.
Normally a disagreement is an opportunity to recast your argument. If you waste it, it suggests you have nothing to say.
Who passes by an argument for an insult.
Trump wants the insults. I don't think these guys realize it.
As more and more of our media institutions fall victim to the agitprop infection and their leaders lament the accompanying loss of power and/or a paycheck it's interesting to see how individual consumers process the decline. Some are quick to adjust while others cling to long outdated and undeserved notions of credibility. Is it because it's hard to see when you're dependent? Because habits are hard to break? I don't know the answer...
Actually, The Snake, the song, is more about misguided emotions and the futility of trying to help creatures (the snake) who will by its nature bite you.
Wishing things were so....and finding out to your peril that your good intentions are not just for naught. They have cause a worse case scenario to arise.
In the song, it is the woman's death. In a political sense it is the collapse and death of Western Society. A very good analogy of the current Illegal Alien/Open Borders situation. The liberals are just FULL of good intentions and moral superiority.
I stopped reading the Weekly Standard when the underlying substrate of the articles began to drip with condescension and dislike of those who didn't choose to buy into the views and "good intentions" of the Neo Conservative movement. I can be insulted for FREE at CNN. Don't have to pay to be dissed by the Weekly Standard
Professor Althouse; it seems that this could use a new "Sour Grapes" tag?
And yes. It was a poem before being a song that reached more people than the poem ever would. Not enough coffee yet this am :-)
The Weekly Standard took a good opportunity and wasted it. Lost its focus and became not more but less by letting the supercilious, smirking, smug Billy Kristol become the front man.
I don't mind some Trump criticism. He deserves it often. What I didn't like was the single mindedness anti Trump and by default anti deplorables attitude. The smug certainty that their views were elevated and were proclamations from on high.
Hubris will always get you in the ass in the end.
You need a tag for "A scorpion projects".
What killed The Weekly Standard was not that it was anti-Trump. There are plenty of ways to be anti-Trump and still be conservative. In fact, it's not even that hard. I applaud Trump for his conservative successes and I'm happy I voted for him given the alternatives available. But I'll never be elected President of the Donald Trump fan club.
What killed The Weekly Standard was that it became anti-conservative. And all the indignant whining by Podhoretz and Kristol won't change that fact.
now that i think about it; sour grapes isn't the right metaphor. Anyone?
Podhoretz is mighty bold when he has that keyboard to hide behind.
My favorite word for people like that is “ankle-biters”.
Did Peter King insult Hillary the Wannabee Empress and Imperatrix of North Africa and the Levant or something? The farce that launched a thousand rickety ships of refugees towards the Eu?
Is that why the Standard hates him so?
I think Aesop told it with a man and a scorpion.
In the 90's or early aughts, Kristol called himself a big government conservative, not realizing it was an oxymoron.
What killed The Weekly Standard is intellectual exhaustion.
Never understood what was in it for the turtle/frog. The scorpion had nothing to offer that they wanted, and they could accomplish the passage without it, so why agree to take on risk with no reward. Unless the selfless doing of a deed for one who asks is its own reward, e.g. the Good Samaritan. But Aesop provides the warning for the do-gooders to choose your charities wisely. Or, in short, understand insect politics and avoid the creatures who cannot feel gratitude.
I like that Althouse combines insect politics with civility bullshit. A daily double of two favorites.
"It isn't an 'awful snake poem' that Trump references. It is a really good song! by Al Wilson (1963)The Snake"
He doesn't "reference" the whatever. He recites it in full. In the form that he recites it, it's a poem.
And my link goes to "Daughters of man who wrote "The Snake" tell Trump to stop using poem to smear immigrants."
Are the lyrics to a song a poem? Is that an interesting subject? Feel free to discuss. Good reference point: Dylan's Nobel speech (discussing among other things, the fact that Homer's epic poems were originally sung).
Trying to find some background
BRZEZINSKI: “John, pair it down for me. What’s the crime here?”
PODHORETZ: “He[Trump] is the crime. He’s the crime.”
BRZEZINSKI: “You’ve got to get over it.”
PODHORETZ: “He is a disgusting repulsive nauseating human being who is lowering our politics moment by moment and destroying the foundations of civility in this country and that’s not his voters’ fault, but they will be responsible if they put — if they install him as the nominee of the Republican Party. He is the crime. Whether or not, what he is —“ [crosstalk]
[snip]
PODHORETZ: “And everybody — and that would be something that would be nice if the Republican frontrunner were able to do so that he would control his repulsive behavior and do something — you know, he has a possibility of being president of the United States. He goes into the White House on January 20th, 2017, and the entire world goes up in flames, because he is so noxious.”
“Noxious” means “Because we hate him so much!"
"I like that Althouse combines insect politics with civility bullshit. A daily double of two favorites."
Are you suggesting that you believe a scorpion is an insect? It's not. I think you should celebrate the other tag I was able to use here, "animals are jerks."
I did read the Weekly Standard regularly. The most vile form of "civility bullshit" is the one with its nose too high to sense one's own ass, or as Pope would say:
Some have at first for wits, then poets passed, turned critics next, and proved plain fools at last.
“John, pair it down for me. What’s the crime here?”
I hope that's directly from the transcript. Because it's "pare". And we spend more per student than most countries in the world.
"Are you suggesting that you believe a scorpion is an insect? It's not."
Mebbe so, but when I get 'em in my house, I darned sure don't call Animal Control.
On the other hand, I am not going to defend Steven King, now that I read a couple of his tweets. Maybe he sort of is a moron. He should at a minimum read his tweets more carefully before hitting send.
What we have here is a tussle between two stinkbugs.
With Podhoretz, it's "pear"
Jpod regularly has those eruptions, it's like some form of internet Tourette's. One moment he's criticizing someone normal-like, and then the sewer erupts.
The Weekly Standard people and their friends caterwauling about how terrible it is that people are gloating over their failure is just too rich.
Podhoretz--whom I read regularly and follow on Twitter--is one of the nastiest and bitchiest people around. He and most of TWS crowd took public delight in any failures or troubles of anyone associated with Trump. Kristol compared several Trump associates to Nazis. JPod and Kristol both heaped scorn on Trump voters (stupid, lazy, unrefined morons who should be replaced by vibrant energetic immigrants, etc). JPod was happy (as were we all!) to cheer when Gawker was killed and their writers unemployed, but suddenly it's bad form for anyone to laugh at Weekly Standard writers who are out of a job.
A few years back when the Left and Media made unfair attacks on Mitt Romney for being a "vulture capitalist" the neocon/Weekly Standard group argued strongly that those business practices were normal, were a part of creative destruction, and that owners of assets could do with them whatever they liked. The Weekly Standard bunch make fun of working class people who lost jobs due to industry changes and said those people complaining just didn't understand free trade and the free market.
Now, though, when its their friends who have lost jobs due to the exact same thing...we're all supposed to think it's some sort of moral or cosmic wrong! It was ok for others but when it applies to THEM it's horrible and anyone who disagrees must be a bad person.
Too bad, assholes. Kristol did everything he could to alienate his audience. People want to cast this as a Trump thing but the truth is it's less about Trump than about the clear contempt the people running TWS have for the rest of us. From someone who use to buy the magazine and read the website daily: back at you, jerks.
I've met Steve King. Nice guy.
"Dust Bunny Queen said...
It is a really good song! by Al Wilson (1963)The Snake"
And here is Angela Merkel doing her Snake Dance. A great metaphor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxuwXczWQC0
I often wonder why it is that some otherwise intelligent people seem incapable of separating their deep personal loathing of Donald Trump from any sort of rational, clear headed analysis even after all this time. It doesn't seem like it should be that hard to do, but apparently it's impossible for some people.
I like the fable about the Princess and the frog far more. It's got a happy ending. The psychologists say that it's a stylized way of talking about oral sex.
DBQ: I don't mind some Trump criticism. He deserves it often. What I didn't like was the single mindedness anti Trump and by default anti deplorables attitude. The smug certainty that their views were elevated and were proclamations from on high.
Yes Trump deserves criticism, loads of it. But one good effect he's had is to make these people reveal their real beliefs to all but the invincibly trusting and naïve among us. The smugness and condescension are irrelevant. (Pretension and condescending tones from contemptible mediocrities, in itself, is just funny.)
What matters is that these people have got a huge ugly animus against millions of ordinary decent Americans, and are now making no bones about it at all. (Though they do seem to be so stupendously lacking in self-insight, or even basic theory-of-mind, that they cannot "see themselves as others see them".) That people like this have any power or influence is the problem, not the comical self-regard.
John Podhoretz has Resting Child-Molester face.
I'm not saying he is a child molester, I just wouldn't leave my kid with him unless I wanted my kid to be fucked in the ass in exchange for candy.
I am Laslo.
"I think Aesop told it with a man and a scorpion"
The Wikipedia article I linked says, "Though the fable is recent, its outlook that certain natures cannot be reformed was common in ancient times, as in Aesop's fable of The Farmer and the Viper. Here the snake's reply indicates that what is fundamentally vicious will not change."
Clicking through to a plot summary: "The story concerns a farmer who finds a viper freezing in the snow. Taking pity on it, he picks it up and places it within his coat. The viper, revived by the warmth, bites his rescuer, who dies realizing that it is his own fault. The story is recorded in both Greek and Latin sources. In the former, the farmer dies reproaching himself "for pitying a scoundrel," while in the version by Phaedrus the snake says that he bit his benefactor "to teach the lesson not to expect a reward from the wicked." The latter sentiment is made the moral in Medieval versions of the fable. Odo of Cheriton's snake answers the farmer's demand for an explanation with a counter-question, "Did you not know that there is enmity and natural antipathy between your kind and mine? Did you not know that a serpent in the bosom, a mouse in a bag and fire in a barn give their hosts an ill reward?""
What's different about "The Frog and The Scorpion" is that the scorpion also dies, since it kills the frog in the middle of the water the scorpion needed assistance in crossing. The frog is incredulous: Why did you do that? Now, you'll die too? So the scorpion's confession to its own nature has a different vibe than the snake's. In the snake story, the snake lives on and mocks the person who saved him. It accepts charity, then kills the helper and blames the helper for not taking account of the truth that he knew all along. In the scorpion story, the scorpion is going to die and needs to explain to himself why he did something so self-destructive, and his answer is that's my nature. Very different lessons!
Podhoretz would have done better to refer to the snake.
Just one more way Trump is a better communicator than Podhoretz.
As in academia, once you throw someone under the bus, you're next in line for the tire facial.
Are you suggesting that you believe a scorpion is an insect? It's not. I think you should celebrate the other tag I was able to use here, "animals are jerks."
I not only suggested it, but I did that without looking at the tags. So the scorpion is only a relative of the insect and is in the arachnid group, and animal jerkiness is correct after all. I sit humbled and corrected and acknowledge the legal accuracy of the original Althouse-placed tag.
I still assert that, though inaccurate, insect politics is a better description of the scorpion's behavior than jerkiness because neither insect nor arachnid is capable of human-normative behavior, the violation of which, when small-minded and rude, is jerkiness. It's not in their nature to be anything else. Scorpions, spiders, and lobsters really cannot behave badly.
What would angry Johnny suggest we do to clean up this kind of view pollution, I wonder?
Congressman Steve King R, Iowa
King was doing Trump before Trump entered the political fray. He got caught with a confederate Flag as part of his desk decorations, Which he had for more than decade. Never a comment until the election cycle two years ago. He is the source of the oft quoted reference to illegals running across the southern border,'their calves the size of cantaloupes' referring to the all to common practice of coyotes, using the people they charge to get them into the US, as drug mules. Lately, about a month before the election, he was talking about his hobby of growing chile peppers. He said his don't have the burn as those from Mexico, maybe the dirt, he should get some of that dirt, well a lot of dirt is already here. So from what I can see he holds illegals in low esteem. Not as low as Democrats think of US citizens. So there's that.
In short King doesn't parse every statement through all the possible PC filters.
Yes and land o lakes made a big stink about disowning him.
Just one more way Trump is a better communicator than Podhoretz.
President Trump is a better communicator than any of his political contemporaries, and the talking heads that lecture to the masses
And there is a huge source of the anti Trump fever. I recall Reagan fighting the same thing.
To me, what Steve King's going after the Weekly Standard signals, is the opportunity to go back online and review the times, and reasons, that the Weekly Standard chose to attack something that King did or said.
Most recently, there was the story from just last month, where King accused the Weekly Standard of misquoting him and/or fabricating a quote. King demanded that the Weekly Standard release an audiotape if they had any recording of what he said (equating Mexican immigrants as "dirt").
And so, that is just what the Weekly Standard did. King said what they reported it, and they posted the audio.
And now thanks to Steve King's recent Tweet, we can all relive that Steve King debacle.
LINK.
Nonapod: I often wonder why it is that some otherwise intelligent people seem incapable of separating their deep personal loathing of Donald Trump from any sort of rational, clear headed analysis even after all this time.
It's not about personal loathing for Donald Trump. Trump is just a symbol, a lightning rod. There's nothing rational about believing, e.g., that the "arc of history" is bending inevitably in favor of your fervently held (but false) beliefs about how the world works, or that Margaret Atwood's BDSM fantasies are one election away from becoming reality, or that the ACA did, or could, fix our health care mess.
A whole lot of complicated crazy has to go into maintaining a bogus world view. Trump takes a lot of potshots at what is a very shaky structure. The last thing you can expect from someone living inside such a structure, when so much has been invested in it, is rational, clear-headed analysis. The freak-out was going to come sooner or later, Trump or no.
The farmer's dead body won't generate heat if it's too cold to rot, so the viper dies, too. But that isn't part of the story.
Maybe it started out as the frog and the scorpion, but when people started to illustrate it, it became the turtle and the scorpion because turtles are easier to draw. But turtles have shells which should protect them from scorpion stings. So eventually, it became a frog again.
I lost interest when I realized he didn’t mean the writer Stephen King.
When industries closed down and middle class people lost their jobs the Weekly Standard class said "too bad, that's the free market and result of free trade, you compete in a global market and you'll just have to deal with the consequences. Stop whining about unfair competition and spouting "de're takin' our jerbs!" and move on. Rent a Uhaul, learn to code, and make yourself into someone with something to offer! Your old town and your old industry are dying and if you're too lazy to realize that and move on it's your own damn fault."
Why is that not applicable to them? Why are they somehow immune to those forces, themselves? They were a money-losing firm! They only existed because a super rich benefactor chose to pour cash into them. Their industry has changed dramatically and they can't stand on their own. They want to argue not only that they should receive special treatment and consideration but that they have a MORAL RIGHT to that special treatment...but they can't tell us why they're more deserving of that treatment than those lowbrow working class slobs they sneer at. They're supposed to be the intellectuals and all they can come up with is "we're different, we're better, we're IMPORTANT!" It's a ridiculous whine.
Podhoretz can eat a bag of dicks. These Never Trump retards who have been exposed as not being conservatives have no idea what they are doing. Trump will serve out the rest of his term and hopefully another, but the pulling off of any veil of objectivity or fairness from the media, be it mainstream/left or these globalist cuckservatives will never go away. I hope Podhoretz gets the same cancer McCain had.
Fuck them.
Angle-Dyne,
Hugh Betcha!!! That's really the story, isn't it. What frightens me is that there seems to be so many of them, and that their revealed natures are so awful. The selfpreening at the other end of the social spectrum are just as bad. The former reek of condescension, and the latter of resentment. Both have no use for the likes of me, and it's no fun knowing it.
Steve King's endorsement of Toronto mayoral candidate Faith Goldy (because what Iowa congressman wouldn't want to weigh on a mayoral election in Canada?) was something else that drew criticism of King from TWS.
Angle-Dyne observes: A whole lot of complicated crazy has to go into maintaining a bogus world view. Trump takes a lot of potshots at what is a very shaky structure. The last thing you can expect from someone living inside such a structure, when so much has been invested in it, is rational, clear-headed analysis. The freak-out was going to come sooner or later, Trump or no.
Yes, indeed. And could the chickens also be coming home to roost?
In the grand tradition of President Trump, Steve King has been making bogus, unfulfilled threats of litigation against his media critics.
He singled out the Washington Post and the Weekly Standard. I think it is very fortunate that King included the Washington Post, so that no one need ever take seriously any future response from King along the lines that he would have sued the Weekly Standard, and he would have won, but since the magazine folded it would not make sense to sue. Because it isn't the case with the Post, which he also threatened.
King won't sue because he can't win. He may keep talking about such suits, because he's an unusual blowhard. Like Trump. But he's bullshitting, just like he was about claiming that the Weekly Standard misquoted him.
The WS employees that put the physical magazine together are the hardest hit, but their jobs will eventually disappear regardless.
iowan2:
King was doing Trump before Trump entered the political fray.
[...]
In short King doesn't parse every statement through all the possible PC filters.
King says the sorts of things that passed without comment not too long ago, and that even the people throwing fits about them know, at a basic, common sense level, to be true. I infer the latter from the fact that the fit-throwers immediately start throwing the familiar well-I-never fits, rather than explaining why what was said is simply incorrect.
It is interesting that Althouse had a tag for "Steve King."
The only other Althouse blog post under that tag was about King's opposition to the Treasury Department's putting Harriet Tubman's image on $20 bills. Wherein she criticized King's argument.
The Weekly Standard guys sneer at Trump voters. All they have to offer is condescension and insults. They spit on populism and populists without bothering to ask why GOP voters have turned to populism--it certainly can't be the fault of the intellectuals like TWS' thinkers, so it must be just some defect in the voters themselves. That's why their arguments (or "arguments") are increasingly indistinguishable from those traditionally made by the Left and Media--people voting for Trump are just stupid racists, just deplorable people, etc. No use trying to figure them out, appeal to them, diagnose where the TWS message has gone wrong or why it's failing to appeal--just write those people off as bad and join in the Left in spitting on them. If it works out that those people happen to be concentrated in the Midwest and the South while the TWS folks are mostly in the Northeast, well that's just how it works out I guess.
I'm supposed to feel bad that TWS writers are out of a job. Didn't TWS fire Lee Smith? Didn't TWS fire Larry O'Connor? Neither were ideologically correct for TWS/Kristol so he fired them, and that's just fine since it was his/their magazine and they can fire whomever they like. But when they themselves get fired they say "oh it's just so wrong to lose your job because of your ideological beliefs, it's morally incorrect!" Ideology was an ok reason for them to fire others but not an ok reason for them to be fired--and that's the argument these intellectual giants are putting forward!
Remember how the TWS gang went after Salena Zito? They insinuated she made up quotes and committed other journalistic sins when she wrote about middle American and did a bunch of reporting on why Trump won those people over. The Left always attacks non-Left journalists but a number of TWS writers were all too happy to smear Zito and insinuate wrongdoing--they didn't actually prove anything and she (and her editors) defended her work, but the TWS gang got to play Mean Girl and look down their noses at a journalist on the right who didn't fully agree with them. Those same people now expect me to believe it's unfair if they lost their jobs because of their political opinions!
I guess Our Chuck is down with Bill Kristol's desire to replace those inferior King-voting Iowans with superior immigrant stock.
(Cue Chuck sperg-out about Bill Kristol never having said anything specifically about the King-voting inhabitants of that particular Iowa congressional district.)
Dirt from Mexico is like blood dripping from wherever. Doesn't necessarily mean what pearl clutchers think.
"The scorpion had nothing to offer that they wanted, and they could accomplish the passage without it, so why agree to take on risk with no reward"
True, but the story is for humans, and humans can be conditioned and manipulated to do things they wouldn't naturally do, for better or worse.
Didn't we have a recent example of how the New York times continued to libel and yet the courts did not recognize it, I think we did.
(eaglebeak)
Associating the Weekly Standard with the notion of elevating discourse, if I have the phrase correctly, must refer to a different place and an earlier time.
Aside from their incessant assaults on Trump, the people who worked there could be personally quite unpleasant. When I wrote a rather sharply worded email to Bill Kristol about something he said, I got a response from his assistant attacking me as a "follower of X"--when I wrote back and said I had sued X, he did not respond.
But you see what's weird? I sent a critical email and this assistant joker researched me.
John Podhoretz seems to have inherited the more volatile aspects of his parents' temperaments--that is, Norman Podhoretz and Midge Decter.
Bill Kristol Says "Lazy" White Working Class Should Be Replaced by "New Americans"
“Look, to be totally honest, if things are so bad as you say with the white working class, don’t you want to get new Americans in?” Kristol told author Charles Murray during an event hosted by the American Enterprise Institute titled “It Came Apart: What’s Next for a Fractured Culture.”
“You can make a case that America has been great because every — I think John Adams said this — basically if you are in free society, a capitalist society, after two or three generations of hard work everyone becomes kind of decadent, lazy, spoiled — whatever,” Kristol said.
“Then, luckily, you have these waves of people coming in from Italy, Ireland, Russia, and now Mexico, who really want to work hard and really want to succeed and really want their kids to live better lives than them and aren’t sort of clipping coupons or hoping that they can hang on and meanwhile grew up as spoiled kids and so forth. In that respect, I don’t know how this moment is that different from the early 20th century,” he added.
But when he and his pals get "replaced" it's a tragedy.
Hell, most of them aren't even out of work, they're sitting pretty at "libertarian" think tank Niskanen Center...which is working now to oppose an awful lot of Republicans. Funny, that.
Chuck said...
"King demanded that the Weekly Standard release an audiotape if they had any recording of what he said (equating Mexican immigrants as "dirt").
And so, that is just what the Weekly Standard did. King said what they reported it, and they posted the audio."
Well, they did post the audio. And I listened to it. And Steve King did not "equate Mexican immigrants as dirt". It is possible that is what the woman speaking to him intended, when she said "Trust me, it's on it's way." But in fact what King said was "Well, yeah, there's plenty of dirt. It's coming from the West Coast, too. And a lot of other places besides."
So, if anything, King deflected a criticism of Mexican immigrants by including Americans in the criticism. But thanks to TWS for lying about it, and being so GD stupid they can't even tell when they are lying. Thanks to you, too, Chuckles, for the same thing.
JPod is generally considered a bit saner than Bill Kristol - and yet he tweets irrational, emotionally-charged nonsense like this.....
I don't see any indication that Podho is making reference to that fable. He is just using the scorpion as an example of a creature upon whom civility is wasted. And it would seem that Podho is the creature whose nature is so vicious that he can't keep himself from attacking those who might save him.
Ralph L said...
Dirt from Mexico is like blood dripping from wherever. Doesn't necessarily mean what pearl clutchers think.
"Shithole countries" would have been a better analogy. Because what made each story so rich was not simply the fact that King/Trump made stupid statements; what made them unforgettable is that they both tried to deny that they said it.
Here you are, saying that some people just don't get the good common sense that the disputed comments represented. But the speakers -- Trump, and King -- wouldn't even admit to having said those things. Doesn't say much for good common sense when the speakers deny uttering the words.
Steve King is messing with the wrong hombre, messing with Steve Hayes & co.
No the senior podhoretz is respected, well except among the stupid who cant forgive him being a heretic in the culture wars
They only existed because a super rich benefactor chose to pour cash into them.
And the recent benefactors were Lefties. And the let the Lefties call the tunes--even in matters of principles. They became the Weakly Standard (Weekly Substandard). No one to blame but themselves. They would keep their mouths shut if they had integrity.
A story told by dick Durbin who once compared us servicemen to nazis because they were being rough with the 20th hijacker, who would have taken out capital hill, had he been allowed on the fourth plane?
What killed The Weekly Standard was that it became anti-conservative.
I agree with this. Although to be fair, many of the people at The Standard were never that Conservative to begin with. Many of them could be better idealogically described as Neocon and/or big business crony-capitalist sorts. Such people tended to be more socially liberal and were more likely to approve of massive government spending as long as it was for the "Right Things". They tended to be big believers in an interventionist type of foreign policy. They could be supporters of bailouts. They tended to be Keynesian in their economic thinking.
I think most mainstream Republicans tolerated such viewpoints if they didn't outright agree with them. But when the populism of Trump took over the Republican party there was a shift and the divisions became too glaring to ignore. One could argue that the greater Republican mainstream abandoned them, or never really was "with" them at all, I don't know.
Steve King is messing with the wrong hombre, messing with Steve Hayes & co.
Steve King is serving in Congress. Steve Hayes & Co. are standing in the unemployment line.
Now, of course, Dick Durbin was the only person present that claimed Trump said "shithole countries." And rational people view it as fake news--especially when the story about Chuck Shumer's involvement in spreading the story came out. Durbin even used the old Lefty trick of saying "Your so-called shithole countries" when he spoke after the President, to get reporters to take notice and report it-- "Quoting" something that was never said. I guess Trump was supposed to hit ol' Dick with his shoe to get him to take that back. If Trump would have said it, reporters would have produced a tape of him saying it. I've never seen reporters operate without a tape recorder running. That is proof enough for rational people.
Our Chuck has declared himself to be not one of the rational people.
In case anyone forgot:
Contenetti, Bill Kristol's son-in-law, Hired Fusion GPS in GOP Primary
The first people to retain Fusion GPS for oppo research were the independent journalists at the Free Beacon. The Free Beacon is funded in large part by Paul Singer, a billionaire who supported Rubio. Fusion did oppo research on Cruz and then on Trump. Fusion eventually hired Steele, and Steele put together the "dossier." So the origin of some of the research that eventually led to the dodgy dossier is with a "conservative" organization. Hilarious.
Kristol's not just Contennetti's father in law, of course. Kristol was an original board member of the Center for American Freedom. The Free Beacon was originally part of the CAF (which is a registered nonprofit) but broke off in 2014 to be a for-profit org (and not have to disclose donors). Michael Goldfarb was a founder of the Free Beacon. Most of these guys worked for McCain or Rubio at one point or another.
Anyway it's tough to credit claims that The Weekly Standard was just some independent truth-telling journalistic enterprise when so many of its people are wrapped up in the swampy morass of DC lobbying and influence.
Someone who puts in his Twitter profile that he overuses "blithering idiot" is not likely on the civility bandwagon.
No, Jupiter; your rationalization of what King said places the comment in the ordinary realm of King's being bigoted against Americans of Mexican heritage along with legal and illegal Mexican immigrants. It doesn't help King.
In fact, King's own rationalization was cleverer but even more unlikely based on the record. King's staff claimed that King was talking about a large cadre of leftist media as "dirt."
Of course that part of the conversation had nothing to do with any media; good bad or indifferent. It is a bizarre construction, to claim that the "dirt" that King was speaking about ("coming up from Mexico") was any sort of media. Because King's full remark included the "dirt" coming from California as well. King said nothing about the home of the left-leaning mainstream media (the east coast, New York, Washington) and as someone who dislikes and distrusts the left-wing bias of much of the media, I honestly never particularly think of it as having any great origin in California.
Here is the King staff's explanation.
John Podhoretz's father was Norman Podhoretz. Bill Kristol's father was Irving Kristol. Have either of them had a "real job" in their lives? I see a bunch of speechwriting jobs, jobs writing for different conservative journals, etc.
Maybe that's part of the sneer?
NYMag: Oedipus & Podhoretz
Some pretty unflattering recollections from his former coworkers in there. I mean, if you like the NY Magazine and the opinions of that crowd generally I guess you have to take that seriously.
If we're doing ad hominems I guess it's only fair.
Darrell said...
Now, of course, Dick Durbin was the only person present that claimed Trump said "shithole countries." And rational people view it as fake news--especially when the story about Chuck Shumer's involvement in spreading the story came out. Durbin even used the old Lefty trick of saying "Your so-called shithole countries" when he spoke after the President, to get reporters to take notice and report it-- "Quoting" something that was never said. I guess Trump was supposed to hit ol' Dick with his shoe to get him to take that back. If Trump would have said it, reporters would have produced a tape of him saying it. I've never seen reporters operate without a tape recorder running. That is proof enough for rational people.
Our Chuck has declared himself to be not one of the rational people.
I want every rational reader of this comments page to understand why I have so loved the "shithole countries" controversy from the start and still do.
1. It forces some Trumpkins to come down as Darrell has, claiming that it was all a lie and something that Trump never said.
2. It Forces other Trumpkins, who genuinely think that it was a right and a good thing for Trump to have said, to disagree with those outlined just above in #1.
3. It forced other Republicans in Trump's orbit, to decide exactly how they would come down on the issue. Did Trump say it? Graham, Flake, Scott all seem to say so. Did Trump say something else? Pathetically, Cotton and Perdue seem to have settled on a third version between them, that Trump said "shithouse countries." And others, including DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, were forced into making idiots out of themselves when they were cornered on it, and could not give an answer that was both straight and honest.
I am not going to argue this point with Darrell. He's not susceptible to persuasion, and he's not worth anything to me in trying to convince. He doesn't even seem to recognize how the "shithole countries" conversation came about, and why Durbin was the only Democrat there, and why there were no reporters there, and what role Senator Graham had in the conversation.
Again; I am talking past Darrell, to other interested readers who might not even be commenters.
From the annals of civility comment, here comes the anal of cucktivity Chuck, to defend his open borders loving pretend conservative who recently got shitcanned.
Way to go Chuck, white knight for those pretend conservatives! Maybe someone will believe that you don't LARP as a conservative and member of the bar.
...you are a foul, disgusting liar and a stain on American public life. The stench of your deceit and your views pollutes your district, your state, your party, and the United States.
They warned us that without outlets like the Weekly Standard around, the Right would become a cesspool of incivility, and they were right.
4. Who cares? Like...literally, what Life Long Republican actually cares?
Trump is careless and indelicate with this speech. The sentiment that he expressed--that there are countries that are less desirable as a source of immigrants than others--isn't one that polite people say out loud, but is one I suspect an overwhelming number of people agree with. The monomaniacal obsession with proving--with geometric logic!--that Trump is sloppy with his speech and often lies about what exactly he has said is really quite tiresome, especially when most people take that for granted already.
Parsing puffery as though it was a written legal contract is stupid, and "proving" the two aren't the same isn't some triumph.
So maybe JPod is not guilty of "calls for civility" hypocrisy. But he is being a whiny child, which does not make him look good, nor does it further any objectives I can imagine him trying to pursue here.
Reminds me of those Brennan tweets excoriating Trump, which serve only the purpose of demonstrating to me that I can't possibly take Brennan seriously.
It amuses me no end that these Never Trumpers are so deeply offended by his manner of speaking, and tweeting. This tactic of Trump's seems to be working perfectly at exposing the irrationality and childishness of many of his critics.
And as if his words aren't bad enough, we learned recently that he re-gifts, double dips, and suggested preventing forest fires by using rakes to clear the forest floor. Does he pick his nose too?
Yes brennan is a tool of the old guard in the kingdom, not the prince hence the flak.
It was fun to watch LLR Chuck literally leap to the defense of his Pro-MS13/Open Borders hero Li'l Dickie "US Troops are Gestapo" Durbin.
It was an awesome Two-fer for Chuck:
1) Another in a long line of instances of Chuck providing strong rhetorical and narrative support for the dems
2) A chance (which Chuck took with relish) to attack a conservative republican combat hero and strong borders advocate, Tom Cotton (for some reason LLR Chuck hates real combat vet heroes who are republican while strongly defending Stolen Valor dem hacks)
I remember how excited Chuck was by this opportunity to advance democrat/far left strategic interests. He seemed then as he does now, downright giddy.
The only things that would make this better for Chuck would be someone threatening Barron and Melania and Sarah Sanders being physically assaulted.
DNC spokesman Chuck is on it!
Chuck, King never called Mexican immigrants dirt. You can equate all you want. But thats not making a statement, that's you infering what ever suits your agenda.
If your going to accuse people of lying, you should at least stand a little closer to the truth yourself.
You know, from a LLR Chuck point of view, it was a real missed opportunity for him when their was no African American republican legislators or cabinet members involved in this fake Dem/LLR manufactured controversy.
Another of LLR Chuck's "Dept of Black People" comments would have proven quite too powerful for our self-described Smear Merchant and "Brian Stelter republican" to resist.
Iowan2: "Chuck, King never called Mexican immigrants dirt. You can equate all you want. But thats not making a statement, that's you infering what ever suits your agenda."
Chuck is not inferring.
Chuck is parroting, as he always does, the looniest "hot takes" from the farthest reaches of the Dem Fever Swamp. Chuck owns a Narrative Time Share there.
We need to set up a fun contest: Pick The Statements Author!
Featuring Nancy Pelosi, Occasional-Cortex, and our own LLR Chuck.
This would be easier than you might think as the correct answer for every question is "All three!!!"
#StrongDemDefender Chuck: "And the Weekly Standard's big gripe with Trump was always his reckless, stupid, counterproductive, undisciplined speech."
LOL
The Weakly Standard crew has been completely exposed as fake conservatives screaming for democrat political and policy decisions up and down the line.
Its actually quite adorable that LLR Chuck thinks its still March of 2016 and he can continue to effectively position these pro-hillary hacks as conservatives.
Too, too funny.
In the first place, the Weekly Standard reported exactly what King said:
https://www.weeklystandard.com/adam-rubenstein/did-steve-just-refer-to-immigrants-as-dirt
Adam Rubenstein reported it in the style of a transcript, word-for-word.
Then, King demanded that the Weekly Standard "release the tape." I presume because he thought or would claim that he was misquoted. But he wasn't misquoted. The Weekly Standard reported accurately, word-for-word, with an audio recording. Sort of like a meeting with Trump, Cohen and the National Enquirer.
LLR Chuck: "On policy, the Weekly Standard found quite a lot of agreement with in Trump."
The Wwekly Standard no more supports the many conservative victories of the Trump administration then you support Strong Borders.
Really Strong Borders.
Via a Bi-partisan commission.....LOL
Bi-partisan....like the first 2 massive amnesties with no border security.
Weekly Standard: lefty funded, FusionGPS colluding
Just think, LLR Chuck is every bit as aligned with the left as The Weekly Standard...but he was never paid by other lefties for that service!! He was a volunteer! Cuz "muh principles"!!
I mean, as far as we know...
The problem with this tweet...
And then he went on to say nothing about the actual tweet.
That we can separate argument over ideas from personal attacks is why this country has been declining. We've dropped real discussion and scientific inquiry for bullied consensus and coordinated attempts to shame.
To other readers: I did not propose a bipartisan commission on border security in general. I did not propose a bipartisan commission on immigration policy.
My own personal choices on immigration policies are probably non-starters with almost all Democrats.
What I proposed, was a bipartisan commission on specific locations for extensions of border wall and fencing. Guaranteed, it would not be "a great border wall" as Trump keeps blathering about. It would be much more in the line of continued piecemeal sections of wall, fencing and other structures, as Republicans and Democrats have approved in a wide variety of congressional votes for a long time.
big gripe with Trump was always his reckless, stupid, counterproductive, undisciplined speech.
"Counterproductive" To what? Fulfilling his campaign promises? Republicans have been making campaign promises for decades and fail miserably
Why do the experts, that call me deplorable, never understand that President Trump is not a politician. As such, he is under no obligations to play by those rules. Whatever they might be at any given moment. The President is doing what the American People elected him to do. He will continue until the next election, and at this rate, will be re-elected, for no other reason than his POLITICAL detractors have refused to learn what the American People want.
Every single day reveals the elites to be anything but that.
LLR Chuck: "To other readers: I did not propose a bipartisan commission on border security in general. I did not propose a bipartisan commission on immigration policy.
......
What I proposed, was a bipartisan commission on specific locations for extensions of border wall and fencing."
LOLOLOL
it does not get any funnier or pro-dem open borders than that.
Its hilarious that LLR and Durbin-Fanboy Chuck thinks he can fool the rubes by waving his little cuck hands even faster and shouting Presto!
Fantastic.
Hilariously so.
"This is one of the great days for me in all the many years of having been a commenter at the Atlhouse blog."
What happened Chuck, did Bitchmo or Inga offer to join in a menage a trois with you and Palmula Handerson?
J-pod always runs around calling people "Garbage" and "Liars" and "Filth"
You wonder why people don't respond in kind or attack him for being such a drama queen.
But people just "take it" as always.
Life Long Republican chuck is just like J-pod and the Weakly Standard.
Man, do they hate people on the right. And they really love attacking their "Fellow" Conservatives.
But Liberals? or the Dems? Not so much.
But that's "Conservatism" for you.
SHorter J-Pod:
You goddman pieces of filth, why are being uncivil toward the fired Weekly Standard employees?
Chucky the Fuckhead ain't a jolly happy soul.
Chuck said...
She was always a good, solid, credible nominee.
Completely unlike many other Trump nominations. Like Trump's nomination of Dr. Ricky Bobby for the Veteran's Administration. Or Ben Carson for Department of Black People. Or Scaramucci for anything.
I think that there is general relief that Trump didn't nominate Agent Maxwell Smart for head of the CIA.
5/9/18, 4:29 PM
Darrell was that the post where I was saying respectful and admiring things about Secretary of Education Besty DeVos? Is that who the "she" was?
Don't you know who you were talking about? How long has this condition persisted?
Darrell said...
Don't you know who you were talking about? How long has this condition persisted?
I think it was; that's why I asked you. As long as you are spending your days looking up old posts of mine, check it out and get back to me.
I don't spend any time looking. I wouldn't because I expect you to delete the one you regret or that can be used against you in a court of Law. I locked that one away so that it couldn't disappear.
Thats the post where, once again, as always, without fail, a respected and decorated military veteran, once associated with republicans, gets trashed by LLR Chuck, all the while LLR Chuck repeatedly defends Stolen Valor dems.
I believe there is something deeply psychological going on with our LLR in that regard.
If you were around way back when you might recall where LLR Chuck wrote a War and Peace length treatise about why he never served.
It was hilarious.
Talk about over-compensation!!
Perhaps thats why LLR Chuck so readily identifies with those in the left who trash our military members.
Darrell said...
I don't spend any time looking. I wouldn't because I expect you to delete the one you regret or that can be used against you in a court of Law. I locked that one away so that it couldn't disappear.
So what does the rest of my post say? Was I saying flattering things about Betsy DeVos?
I see LLR Chuck is employing his patented --look at the one republican I am not trashing!!..see I am totally a conservative!!-- ploy.
Again, hilarious. Same schtick Chuck pulled with Tom Cotton.
Of course, after trashing Tom Cotton in favor of Durbin and Schumer, Chuckie tried to walk it back to reestablish his conservative "street cred"!
LOL
So much flailing.
What great comedy to watch right wingers attack each other over Purity of Essence while they circle the demographic drain.
No! I see that I was not referring to Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos with my flattery in that instance. (My confusion, that I am readily admitting in this case, should tell you how I feel about Secretary DeVos. That I was presuming that something nice that I wrote about of Trump's female nominees was about Mrs. DeVos.)
No; I was referring to CIA Director Gina Haspel.
And at the link you can see the context of my post in that context.
Howard: "What great comedy to watch right wingers attack each other over Purity of Essence while they circle the demographic drain."
Yikes.
You see a purity battle going on?
Too funny. Good news for republicans though if that is the lesson you are drawing.
LLR Chuck: "No! I see that I was not referring to Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos with my flattery in that instance."
LOL
Drago I said nothing nice about Chuck Schumer. And about Dick Durbin, whom I have regularly denounced as evil, I have written precisely one thing that wasn't critical. And what I wrote was that I accepted Durbin's version of that Oval Office meeting. Because Lindsey Graham confirmed it, to Ron Scott and Jeff Flake and apparently many others who would not be quoted about it. And because no one in the White House has seriously/convincingly denied it. And because Secretary Nielsen, who was there, couldn't give a straight answer about it. And because Senators Cotton and Perdue had three different stories about it.
I agree that Senator Tom Cotton has a brilliant history of service to the nation. I was looking forward to him someday as a Presidential candidate. And that is why his lying for Trump was such a profound disappointment to me.
Hopefully, Howard, the divisions about Trump within conservatism and the Republican Party more broadly will end Trump's political future before we have a nominee in 2020.
LLR Chuck back-pedaling as fast as he can!
As expected.
Strange isnt it, how LLR Chuck never has to back-pedal on comments made about his dem teammates.
Well, to back-pedal you would first have to criticize the dems/left.
LOL
We know thats never going to happen, dont we?
Chuck, as teammates I encourage you two to commiserate privately.
The stench of your deceit and your views pollutes your district, your state, your party, and the United States.
Or more seasonally: Stink, Stank, Stunk.
LLR Chuck is delusional enough to believe his Faux Conservative schtick still flies.
Its awesome.
Something that must have prompted Podhoretz's heated tweet is that Steve King is considered by many Jews to have anti-Semitic tendencies. This past October, the Anti-Defamation League asked Speaker Ryan to censure King over his "anti-Semitic and offensive" past statements and for meeting "with outright anti-Semitic organizations and individuals."
Lydia: ,Something that must have prompted Podhoretz's heated tweet is that Steve King is considered by many Jews to have anti-Semitic tendencies."
Yeah, everyone's a nazi these days, except the explicitly anti-semitic Women's March and major players on the dem side which is why jewish writers and liberal jewish groups demand those guys be censured and...er...oh..right. No they dont.
Lydia: Something that must have prompted Podhoretz's heated tweet is that Steve King is considered by many Jews to have anti-Semitic tendencies. This past October, the Anti-Defamation League asked Speaker Ryan to censure King over his "anti-Semitic and offensive" past statements and for meeting "with outright anti-Semitic organizations and individuals."
That's nice. The ADL has been heading into SPLC territory for a while now. Do you have sound reasons for accepting their anathematization as dispositive? If there were such a thing as an anti-defamation league for white Christian flyoverians, and I had to bet, I'd bet it could easily slap together a rather more substantive case against JPod and the rest of the WS whingers for being anti-WCF bigots.
They could probably even stump up a slimy little case against you, just based on stuff you've posted here. Show me the man and I'll show you the dog whistle.
Do you understand how this game works, Lydia?
And you know what? I don't follow King's every act and word; he could be any manner of anti-whatever and I might have missed it. But I sure as hell wouldn't take the ADL's word for it. And this kind of stuff (the most allegedly "damning" thing to be found at your link)...
'In August, he said that “western civilization" was on the "decline" in an interview with a website associated with Austria's Freedom Party, a group founded by a former Nazi SS officer.'
...shouldn't cut any ice with anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
Drago whistling past the graveyard full of indespensible LLRs and deplorables.
I thought the punch line to the scorpion and the frog was: Yes, but it is the Middle East.
Howard: "Drago whistling past the graveyard full of indespensible LLRs and deplorables."
And skipping. While eating a snowcone! Not such a great choice this time of year, admittedly.
In my opinion, Podhoretz was the worst guest ever on Greg Gutfeld's old show Red Eye.
It's not a left-right thing with Podhoretz re anti-Semitism -- he's been denouncing super-lefty Alice Walker for years. Mentions her today as well because of this at the Tablet: "The New York Times Just Published an Unqualified Recommendation for an Insanely Anti-Semitic Book"
If Congressman King had said anything TRULY anti-Jewish, you would have heard the NYT and WaPo braying for his blood 24/7.
Strangely, the only ones who seems to care are the NEVER-TRUMPERS and professional drama queen and self-proclaimed "Nazi Hunter" and prime defender of Israel - J-Pod.
Antisemitism can mean anything, these days. With J-Pod it just means "I don't like you"
But there's no penalty for screeching racism/antisemitism/homophobia at someone non-stop.
False accusation? Who cares. Exaggeration? Who cares. Smears? Who cares.
The most important thing is we censor anyone we who doesn't conform.
Podhoretz is mighty bold when he has that keyboard to hide behind.
Every little dog is brave on his own doorstep.
"Skipping"?? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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