Althouse: At the Tuesday Night Cafe...

१६ ऑक्टोबर, २०१८

At the Tuesday Night Cafe...

... we’re getting a late start.

१४७ टिप्पण्या:

Mark म्हणाले...: Like I was saying. I caught the last 30 seconds of The Connors.

Wow -- John Goodman has lost a lot of weight. He looks like those other twigs, Al Sharpton and Al Roker.; १६/१०/१८, ७:५९ PM
Mark म्हणाले...: He didn't lost the neck skin though.; १६/१०/१८, ८:०१ PM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: Brewers v. Dodgers? Might as well stay up too. Awaiting Doctor Feel Good appointment in the AM.. I am very great full to our Professor. Her brilliant writing makes me think about something else.; १६/१०/१८, ८:०३ PM
Andrew म्हणाले...: How was The Conners? I didn't catch it. My assumption is it will flop. The hatred for it on Twitter is virulent.; १६/१०/१८, ८:०४ PM
Mark म्हणाले...: How was The Conners?

The 30 seconds I saw were tediously boring.; १६/१०/१८, ८:०६ PM
William म्हणाले...: The most recent Jurassic Park is too formulaic. Why do dinosaurs always chase children and girls in tight t-shirts and never catch them? Instead, they're forever eating and crushing corporate execs, military types, and Republican voters.. Just once I'd like to see a little kid chased and eaten by a dinosaur. Teach kids to keep a proper distance from dinosaurs......This current Jurassic is silly beyond endurance. The heroes go to elaborate lengths to protect and liberate their pet raptor. Who the fuck besides Hollywood screenwriters would want a pet dinosaur?.....The movie made over a billion dollars. Expect more.; १६/१०/१८, ८:०७ PM
Amadeus 48 म्हणाले...: Hmmm...where are all these leaks about Khashoggi's demise coming from? Unnamed sources? Like...Iran? Turkey? Russia? Qatar? John Brennan? Susan Rice? Valerie Jarrett? Where are they coming from? I don't know, and you don't either. Anuone seen any evidence?
This is a propaganda op all the way.; १६/१०/१८, ८:०८ PM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: Lets Goooooo Brew Crew!!!

Lookin for Woodruff to put some wood on it, later.; १६/१०/१८, ८:१२ PM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: @William. I'll go you one better. How do the women manage to outrun the dinosaurs even though they're running in high heels?; १६/१०/१८, ८:१६ PM
tcrosse म्हणाले...: Here in Nevada, Dennis Hof, Brothel Owner, has died. The body was discovered by a fellow named Ron Jeremy. Also on the scene was a woman named Heidi Fleiss. Try explaining all this to the kids.; १६/१०/१८, ८:१८ PM
Ignorance is Bliss म्हणाले...: I have a thesis rolling around in my head:

Donald Trump is the mirror image of the culture created by John Stewart, Stephen Colbert, et al. Willing to say whatever to rile up the fans. Misrepresenting, distorting, and taking out of context as long as he can score some points for the team.

Those liberal late night shows took our political culture into the gutter with their clown-nose on/clown nose off routine. Republicans had no corresponding platform, and most politicians wouldn't get down into the gutter with them.

Trump would. Trump Did. That is how we got Trump.; १६/१०/१८, ८:१८ PM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: Stats are good for teams that win #3 after splitting first two. Win series at 85.7% clip.; १६/१०/१८, ८:२० PM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: ”... we’re getting a late start.”

I’m not at home, where there’s a TV in the bedroom. I doubt I’ll make it.; १६/१०/१८, ८:२१ PM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: Oh, but I found it on the radio. I can take that to the bedroom.

I can do this.; १६/१०/१८, ८:२४ PM
Lucien म्हणाले...: If students suing Harvard say “You discriminated against us because we’re Asian”, and Harvard says “No we didn’t”, can Harvard also argue “but if it turns out that the jury decides we’re lying, we were justified because diversity “?; १६/१०/१८, ८:२५ PM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: As long as the Brewers make it worth my while.; १६/१०/१८, ८:२५ PM
Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...: "Here in Nevada, Dennis Hof, Brothel Owner, has died. The body was discovered by a fellow named Ron Jeremy. Also on the scene was a woman named Heidi Fleiss. Try explaining all this to the kids"

One of my clients used to work for him. Did his maintenance. He would tell epic stories about that time. Which is the good and the bad of working in NV.; १६/१०/१८, ८:३१ PM
David53 म्हणाले...: Ted Cruz is owning Beto in the Texas Senate Debate @KENS5 in San Antonio.; १६/१०/१८, ८:३२ PM
JohnAnnArbor म्हणाले...: Any thoughts on the Senator Heitkamp epic gaffe?; १६/१०/१८, ८:३३ PM
walter म्हणाले...: William said... Why do dinosaurs always chase children and girls in tight t-shirts and never catch them?
--
Dunno..it's really not accurate to have dinosaurs wearing t-shirts.; १६/१०/१८, ८:३५ PM
mockturtle म्हणाले...: Amadeus 48: Al Jazeera sez: "The security official that Al Jazeera spoke to said the recording obtained by Turkish police has 11 minutes of audio.

Technical voice analyses conducted by police identified three male voices who are believed to be Saudis, in addition to the voice of Khashoggi, the official said, adding that the journalist was assaulted immediately after he entered the consulate.

The official also said that consulate staff were dismissed early on the day of Khashoggi's disappearance, at 11:30am, having been told that there would be a meeting at the consulate that day."

These two items should be easy enough to verify. The consulate staff was or was not dismissed early. There is or there is not a tape as described. While I'd like to think it's a propaganda job against the Saudi Crown Prince, it's by no means clear. Not that I give a fat rat's ass about a jihadi 'journalist'. We've been helping to keep the Saudi royals in power for generations now and maybe it's better than the alternative but it still stinks to high heaven.; १६/१०/१८, ८:३८ PM
PB म्हणाले...: Leftist going berserk over the NPC meme. Twitter helping by banning more people using the meme.

Leftists remind me of the old Twilight Zone episode "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

https://goo.gl/images/2DEJDe; १६/१०/१८, ८:४० PM
Bruce Hayden म्हणाले...: "Hmmm...where are all these leaks about Khashoggi's demise coming from? Unnamed sources? Like...Iran? Turkey? Russia? Qatar? John Brennan? Susan Rice? Valerie Jarrett? Where are they coming from? I don't know, and you don't either. Anuone seen any evidence?
This is a propaganda op all the way."

The whole thing stinks. Khashoggi spent decades essentially working closely with our enemies, including OBL, al Quaeda, ISIS, and the Muslim Brotherhood, which he apparently still belonged to at the time of his disappearance. Those associations should have automatically prevented him from ever getting a U S visa of any type, but somehow he had a Green Card. That would have required high level US connections, probably at least cabinet level. Best bet is Brennan, who knew him f on when he was the CIA Station Chief in Saudi Arabia. Yes, the same John Brennan involved in illegally surveiling Trump and his campaign and transitin, and probably involved in getting the Russian atty into and out of the US for her Trump Tower meeting.; १६/१०/१८, ८:४३ PM
tim in vermont म्हणाले...: Road trip! Unfortunately I finally found a stool in a Boston bar seconds after the final out. I was able to follow the Sox on the phone during the meal though.

I saw a local in Upstate New York on that crash that killed 20. I turns out the guy who owned the limo company was an FBI informant and people are saying that the FBI protected him. One of the lawyers of a guy convicted was very bitter. He said his client was unfairly treated because he was serving a 20 year sentence even though he had been acquitted on MOST of the charges. I am thinking that they don't teach so much logic in law school as shamelessness.

If anybody knows of any first rate shrimp and grits anywhere between Frederick Maryland (has to be south of the Mason Dixon Line), to Charlotte south to Savannah, let me know. My usual stop was closed up last time.; १६/१०/१८, ८:४६ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Turns out khashiggi was to have presided over an investment conference for Qatar in dc, a mirror to the one that are trying to shut down in Riyadh

The lead times reporter on this story David Kirkpatrick was the one who bought the (redacted) cover story about benghazi even there was an ds video feed that disproved it.

https://www.globalmbwatch.com/2018/10/16/analysis-whats-up-with-the-washington-post-and-the-muslim-brotherhood/; १६/१०/१८, ८:५२ PM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: Too bad for Gio, but Freddy seems dialed in. Looks real good.; १६/१०/१८, ९:०० PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Maybe Goodman is the one on the oxy, where would be without Roseanne he probably couldn't have swung king ralph.; १६/१०/१८, ९:०४ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: "Maybe Goodman is the one on the oxy, where would be without Roseanne he probably couldn't have swung king ralph."

IMHO, he seems like a talented guy who came from nowhere and made it because of his work.

Different strokes fer different folks.

I guess.; १६/१०/१८, ९:०८ PM
Henry म्हणाले...: If anybody knows of any first rate shrimp and grits anywhere between Frederick Maryland (has to be south of the Mason Dixon Line), to Charlotte south to Savannah...

Turn around and try Chef Wayne's Big Mamou in Springfield Massachusetts of all places. Or hit it on your way home, I guess.; १६/१०/१८, ९:१२ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: I don't particularly like Roseanne I found her crude and a little crazy then, if you were to exile performers because of their stupid statements not to mention wretched personal habits Hollywood would have tumblewewds.; १६/१०/१८, ९:१३ PM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: Apparently youtube is down. It puts a crimp in watching Vietnam train drivers' views of various trips, a wonderful way to pass about 20 minutes at a time.; १६/१०/१८, ९:१५ PM
Michael K म्हणाले...: JohnAnnArbor said...
Any thoughts on the Senator Heitkamp epic gaffe?

I can't believe they are so stupid to publish names AND addresses !

She was going to lose big anyway.; १६/१०/१८, ९:१८ PM
FullMoon म्हणाले...: Who can pre-register to vote?

To pre-register to vote in California, you must:

Be 16 or 17 years old, and
Meet all of the other requirements to vote.

You will automatically be registered to vote on your 18th birthday.

To register to vote you must complete a voter registration application on paper or online at RegisterToVote.ca.gov.; १६/१०/१८, ९:२१ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: "watching Vietnam train drivers' views of various trips, a wonderful way to pass about 20 minutes at a time."

Good thing yur not a woman. So that triviality is not a concern for you. Yur too bizy doing man stuff. Like you see the men in your rom-coms doing.; १६/१०/१८, ९:२२ PM
steve uhr म्हणाले...: This is the week that Warren officially self destructed. My early money is on the senior senator from Minnesota.; १६/१०/१८, ९:२५ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @Bruce Hayden:

The whole thing stinks. Khashoggi spent decades essentially working closely with our enemies, including OBL, al Quaeda, ISIS, and the Muslim Brotherhood, which he apparently still belonged to at the time of his disappearance.

What is the evidence that Khashoggi was ever "working closely" with Al Qaeda or ISIS? Khashoggi's relationship with bin Laden has been well known, as both were among the numerous Arab supporters of the Afghan muhajideen. Khashoggi's relationship with bin Laden and was covered extensively in Lawrence Wright's A Looming Tower. The effort was to not only have bin Laden end his denunciations of the royal family and return to Saudi Arabia, but he cautioned bin Laden about continuing his efforts beyond Afghanistan. See Chapter 10 of Wright's book for a more thorough discussion.; १६/१०/१८, ९:३७ PM
madAsHell म्हणाले...: Trump would. Trump Did. That is how we got Trump.

Y'all gotta a problem with that??; १६/१०/१८, ९:४० PM
Francisco D म्हणाले...: There seems to be a tense quiet in the air, politically speaking. I have noticed this often on election days. It suggests that people have largely made up their minds.

I have. Despite being a registered Independent for 47 years, I am voting straight Republican.

We need to save democracy from the mob.; १६/१०/१८, ९:४२ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: He was a dilletante not a militant, but hr bet wrong on practically every policy choice. Now the post has agreed on almost all of those instances, the Arab spring did not age well.; १६/१०/१८, ९:४५ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: "We need to save democracy from the mob."

Democracy dies in mob rule.

Thanks to Frank's brilliance, the mob won't rule.; १६/१०/१८, ९:४६ PM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: Shrimp and grits is great in Charleston and Hilton Head Island...everywhere.; १६/१०/१८, ९:४८ PM
rcocean म्हणाले...: I find it amazing that everyone is worked up about the death of whats his name. Y'know the Saudi guy that 99.999% of Americans didn't know or care about until the MSM said he'd been killed by the Saudi's.

Of course, since the MSM are worked up about it, everyone else is supposed to be worked up about it.

I hope the Saudi Royal Family didn't kill him, but talk of sanctions or whatever Hysterical Miss Lindsey is threatening is over the top.

I don't want to pay $10/galleon for Gas, because a lot of idiots get hysterical over one dead Saudi Journalist.; १६/१०/१८, ९:४९ PM
rcocean म्हणाले...: How people do you think the Castro Family in Cuba has killed over the years? China is a commie dictatorship and still occupying Tibet.

So why don't we impose sanctions on China? Why is the MSM always trying to push the USA to have closer ties with Cuba?

What about Morality? Oops, looks like its very selective.; १६/१०/१८, ९:५२ PM
rcocean म्हणाले...: "Shrimp and grits is great in Charleston and Hilton Head Island...everywhere"

I'd love to go to Hilton Head and play some golf.; १६/१०/१८, ९:५३ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Yes Lindsay In particular seems to have learned nothing from the debacles in Libya and Egypt, I guess Tunisia didn't turn out that badly, corker funded that 500 million dollar boon doggle for the Syrian rebels, now if anything should get someone aggressively interrogated it's that.; १६/१०/१८, ९:५४ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: This is what the echo chamber is about, or the two minute hate, conversely the masters 'sound of drums'; १६/१०/१८, ९:५६ PM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: Now we're in business..new game; १६/१०/१८, ९:५६ PM
mccullough म्हणाले...: Arcia is having an excellent series at the plate.; १६/१०/१८, ९:५६ PM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: Hopefully Hill is off the hill.

Guys got a nasty bender.; १६/१०/१८, १०:०४ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: Now wapo is showing the passports of the murder party. And, they're playing video of the embassy.

I never knew where any embassies were in Istanbul. Not even ours.

Of course I do know where our coolest embassy is. Just around the corner from the Hermes flagship. Hence, it's the best.

BTW, I should see if youtube really is down.

Nope, it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Fa4lOQfbA; १६/१०/१८, १०:०४ PM
mccullough म्हणाले...: Hill made Yelich look really bad. Looking high fastball and gave him the curve. He should have been looking for the curve at 3-1 and hammered it. It was over the middle of the plate.; १६/१०/१८, १०:०६ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: This thread calls out for more youtube, beyond Jane.

"Who the fuck besides Hollywood screenwriters would want a pet dinosaur?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k68Uz3w3x8; १६/१०/१८, १०:१२ PM
Ken B म्हणाले...: Bliss
I was asked a few years ago, preTrump, who was the worst, most destructive person in America. My answer was unhesitating: Jon Stewart. Colbert was runner up.
My Canadian friends think Trump is somehow an aberration, uniquely awful. I tell them no, he is about middling awful. (And while I like much of what he has done I do agree he has a lot of awfulness! ) You are right about the damage done to politics and debate by Stewart et al, that Trump has exploited brilliantly.; १६/१०/१८, १०:१३ PM
Drago म्हणाले...: It is healthy the left wing corporate leaders at Google have finally admitted what we've known all along: the lefties in US tech are helping the communist govt of China to monitor and censor their people.

"Don't be evil", to the left, clearly and definitively means openly supporting communist governments in the suppression of their own people.

As it always has.

And as it always will.; १६/१०/१८, १०:१६ PM
Sprezzatura म्हणाले...: Right Ken,

The reason that K Street runs the gov to benefit big dough funders (financed by about a trillion in gov debt) is because of comedians.

You sure is smart.; १६/१०/१८, १०:१७ PM
Ken B म्हणाले...: JohnAnnArbor asks about the heitcamp gaffe.
It comes from the leftist certainty that they are the good people. They didn’t check because they couldn’t imagine any decent objection to what they were doing. *Of course* these women agree with us! Of course we understand. Of course they want to help. Of course, of course.; १६/१०/१८, १०:१८ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: No its,because the govt has its mitts in everything, in order to do anything, the aarp is the largest lobby which means no one will do anything about entitlements till it's too late.; १६/१०/१८, १०:२३ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: So much was made that Cavanaugh father was a lobbyist, but it was never said it was for the evil perfume industry.; १६/१०/१८, १०:२८ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @rcocean:

I find it amazing that everyone is worked up about the death of whats his name. Y'know the Saudi guy that 99.999% of Americans didn't know or care about until the MSM said he'd been killed by the Saudi's.

If an Iranian dissident had left Iran, became a green card resident of the US, published articles criticizing the Iranian regime, and then was murdered by the Iranian regime while abroad, do you think this argument would be that it does not matter because "99.99% of Americans didn't know or care about" this person?

How people do you think the Castro Family in Cuba has killed over the years? China is a commie dictatorship and still occupying Tibet.

Neither country receives anywhere near the amount of political and diplomatic support from the US that Saudi Arabia does on the international stage. Neither country is sold billions of dollars of US weaponry. Neither country receives US military and intelligence assistance, and there are no US special forces on the ground working with the Chinese or Cuban governments. Part of a problem in forging as close a relationship as we have with the Saudis is that we are partly implicated in their behavior.

I don't want to pay $10/galleon for Gas, because a lot of idiots get hysterical over one dead Saudi Journalist.

As a general rule of thumb, I think it is best to ignore Lindsay Graham over questions of foreign policy, though Trump himself threatened "severe punishment" over the incident. That does not have to include sanctions or a severing of relationships.

The Saudis have already intimated possible retaliations in the form of raising oil prices, and this would be in keeping with MBS' pattern of reckless or impetuous behavior. But there are good reasons to suspect that it is bluster, given MBS' still precarious position of power within Saudi Arabia.

It is also important to remember that good arguments for disentangling the US-Saudi relationship existed long before this alleged murder.; १६/१०/१८, १०:३४ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: You can see the stitching on this fast ball this is the regime change play that they missed the first time in fact seeing as Egypt is supported by the kingdom as well as eastern Libya, the West end is firmly in Qatar's hands which the third govt they've had in as many years.; १६/१०/१८, १०:४५ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Now after Peter Bergs film of the same name I wasn't nearly that well disposed, that climactic lethal weapon like shoot out in that Riyadh slum ar suweidi, (shot in the uae) I think the people were more problematic than the govt.; १६/१०/१८, १०:४९ PM
mockturtle म्हणाले...: It is also important to remember that good arguments for disentangling the US-Saudi relationship existed long before this alleged murder.

Well, yeah, like their probable involvement in 9/11; १६/१०/१८, १०:५१ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Btw they are now attacking the uae for their part in Yemen, I know it's like hitting Gaza k(The queen of sheba would be horrified what that place has become); १६/१०/१८, १०:५७ PM
mccullough म्हणाले...: Khashoggi should never have been given a green card. We don’t need Brotherhood operatives in the US.; १६/१०/१८, ११:०० PM
mockturtle म्हणाले...: Yelich is fast!!!; १६/१०/१८, ११:०० PM
Drago म्हणाले...: In surprising news: the dems declare war on the Cherokee Tribe leadership.

Again.; १६/१०/१८, ११:०६ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: I know that other thread is probably full:

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/10/mid-week-in-pictures-fauxcahontas-edition.php; १६/१०/१८, ११:०७ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: This is what I was referring to:

https://libertyunyielding.com/2018/10/16/media-smear-ex-green-beret-for-taking-out-al-qaeda-allied-radicals-in-yemen/
https://t.co/QIi2T3DDgm?amp=1; १६/१०/१८, ११:०८ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Now this fellow, is an associate of zindani who in turn was an associate of the late awlaki; १६/१०/१८, ११:१९ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १६/१०/१८, ११:२३ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @mccullough:

Khashoggi should never have been given a green card. We don’t need Brotherhood operatives in the US.

"The short answer is that the Brotherhood is not in a meaningful sense a single organization at all; elements of it can be designated and have been designated, and other elements certainly cannot be. As a whole, it is simply too diffuse and diverse to characterize. And it certainly cannot be said as a whole to engage in terrorism that threatens the United States.
...
Chapters of the Brotherhood have sometimes engaged in terrorism and other forms of political violence. The Syrian Muslim Brotherhood fought an insurgency against the Syrian government in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood, represented by Hamas, routinely uses terror tactics against Israel, which is why it is designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the U.S. Department of State. The Egyptian Brotherhood conducted terror attacks against the Egyptian government in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s until its second leader forbade revolutionary violence."
-Should the Muslim Brotherhood be designated a terrorist organization?

"At a global level, the Brotherhood is no Mafia. Nor is it a rigid and disciplined Stalinist-style Comintern. It most closely resembles today’s Socialist International: a tame framework for a group of loosely linked, ideologically similar movements that recognize each other, swap stories and experiences in occasional meetings, and happily subscribe to a formally international ideology without giving it much priority. There is every reason to be interested in the Brotherhood’s myriad (and surprisingly diverse) country branches, but there is no reason to fear it as a menacing global web."
-The irrelevance of the international Muslim Brotherhood

"Rejection of violence has also been a key part of the institutional ideas of the Muslim Brotherhood for over 40 years. While there is an internal ideological debate over whether the organization allows the use of violence or not, over the past four decades the Brotherhood has preached against the jihadi approach of using political violence. Moreover, it has institutionalized these ideas into its membership rules. Members are accepted or rejected partly based on their stance towards the use of violence, and there have traditionally been clear orders to not promote any sympathizer to the level of official member if there were any doubts about their views on the issue.

These factors have an important influence over the attitudes of the majority of the Muslim Brothers and have led most of them to refrain from using political violence. But it is also important to note that these factors do not have the same influence over the different groups affiliated with the Brotherhood, and might not have the same influence over time."
-Why Aren’t More Muslim Brothers Turning to Violence?; १६/१०/१८, ११:२५ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: John Henry, you know anything about this:

I know it's probably right up there with being shocked there's gambling in casinos

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/10/16/whoa-the-fbi-raided-the-offices-of-the-city-of-san-juan-puerto-rico-this-morning/?fbclid=IwAR12-2zVKJh8QLkJMz6U0ZFAPOcAaBA90a9fgHNhQco15Ji1iSLFqHuzxvA; १६/१०/१८, ११:२९ PM
mccullough म्हणाले...: Farmer,

Who gives a shit if they’re violent. They are Islamists. They aren’t interested in a pluralistic, secular, representative democracy. That ideology doesn’t belong in the US. No reason to hand out green cards to people who want an Islamic government. We shouldn’t hand out green cards to communists either. Or Nazis, even non-violent one’s.

Too bad the Brotherhood couldn’t pull it off in Egypt. We don’t need that Brotherhood bullshit here.; १६/१०/१८, ११:३३ PM
eddie willers म्हणाले...: Mr.J. Farmer?

I don't care.; १६/१०/१८, ११:३९ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: The Algerian branch tried that in 1992, the Soviet trained military would have none of That, particularly the eradicateur faction headed by gen lamouri, yes they did what the name suggests there was an insurgency that spread to France in the mid 90s, they mostly crushed the bulk of the militants sending them to the cercle sportif years later the hunta spokesman brahimi told the Iraqi ruling council they had to be merciful with their enemy, bashirs entourage was too polite to laugh in their face.; १६/१०/१८, ११:४२ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: Let me see if I get this straight, the Saudis are not nice people, but the global militant wahhabi infrastructure which is based on the ilkwan well that's fine, and their local representative like sheikh Hawali, and Awda (He was put in charge of rehabilitating got no detainees th at worked out grwat.; १६/१०/१८, ११:४६ PM
narciso म्हणाले...: At the base of every one of these militant organization you find a brotherhood cell. But you think they are the boy scouts or the Kiwanis club; १६/१०/१८, ११:५७ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @mccullough:

Who gives a shit if they’re violent.

Supporting political violence is often the threshold between legitimate and illegitimate movements. The US government does not consider the Muslim Brotherhood, which is really just an umbrella term for various movements and factions, to be a terrorist organization.

Too bad the Brotherhood couldn’t pull it off in Egypt. We don’t need that Brotherhood bullshit here.

Of course the Brotherhood did "pull it off in Egypt," in both the parliamentary and presidential elections. What happened was that the military overthrew the elected government and imposed autocratic rule for their own ends.; १६/१०/१८, ११:५७ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @eddie willers:

Mr.J. Farmer?

I don't care.

I never asked you to care. And coincidentally I do not care what you care or do not care about.; १७/१०/१८, १२:०० AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Because the people wanted it, here's an example this Google exec ghonim was the face of the movement well not for long where is beaks Now, anyways. Same with the long time liberal candidate noor, instead sakafi like morsi.; १७/१०/१८, १२:०३ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: And under that leadership at least two major figure of the gamaa Islamiya was released. One led one of the cells at benghazi the other the cell leader against sad at, is the mentor for their al queda cell.; १७/१०/१८, १२:०७ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @narciso:

Are you using Google Translate to post? No disrespect intended, but your posts can be somewhat difficult to follow, and you have a habit of using pronouns without antecedents. So, for example you write:

At the base of every one of these militant organization you find a brotherhood cell. But you think they are the boy scouts or the Kiwanis club

I am not sure who "you" is in that statement, but no one here or in any of the links provided indicate that they "think they are the boy scouts or the Kiwanis club." What they have said is that there is no single "Muslim Brotherhood" that can be characterized in any manner except wide generalizations.

What led figures like Abdullah Azzam to be disenfranchised with the Brotherhood was the renouncement of revolutionary violence. Ayman al-Zawahiri criticized the Brotherhood precisely for abandoning the jihadist model and for participating in political parties and state institution. ISIS labeled the Brotherhood murtadd for precisely the same reasons.; १७/१०/१८, १२:१७ AM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: Machado is a chump; १७/१०/१८, १२:२१ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: No I'm Not, the Islamic resistance organization came from the brotherhood Jordanian branch, ansar al sharia came from the other two north African ones the Chechen emirate Same, Hizbu Tahor the Pakistani one etc etc.; १७/१०/१८, १२:२१ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: The problem is no longer overthere:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/11398538/How-the-Muslim-Brotherhood-fits-into-a-network-of-extremism.html; १७/१०/१८, १२:२३ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Any further questions, so much for the argument clinic.; १७/१०/१८, १२:२८ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @narciso:

From your link:

"It is expected to say that the Brotherhood, a multifaceted organisation, is not itself a terrorist group and should not be banned, a verdict most analysts agree with."

The remainder of the article is primarily about Hamas. And if you read above to a quote and a link I provided three hours ago:

"The Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood, represented by Hamas, routinely uses terror tactics against Israel, which is why it is designated as a foreign terrorist organization by the U.S. Department of State."; १७/१०/१८, १२:३२ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Yes what is Machado thinking.; १७/१०/१८, १२:३८ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Both Fatah and Islamic resistance stem from the same root, you don't be telling us that Fatah charter is subject to negotiation right?; १७/१०/१८, १२:४२ AM
320Busdriver म्हणाले...: That he's so good that every team willing to pay him more than most players will overlook his bad sportsmanship. Terrible example for the kids who want to do what he does.; १७/१०/१८, १२:४३ AM
mccullough म्हणाले...: Farmer,

The Brotherhood or any Islamist under whatever umbrella organization can have their legitimate movement somewhere else. There is no reason to give Islamists green cards. It’s bad policy.

Quit being obtuse to the point I’m making. I don’t give a shit thatbtgey aren’t violent or whether The Brotherhood is an umbrella term. The US shouldn’t hand out green cards to even non-violent Islamists.

If you disagree then just say so.

It’s like your posts yesterday saying the Houthis weren’t backed by Iran and Saudi Arabia wasn’t acting defensively. I said five times I didn’t care about that and it had nothing to do with my argument.; १७/१०/१८, १२:४८ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @narciso:

Both Fatah and Islamic resistance stem from the same root, you don't be telling us that Fatah charter is subject to negotiation right?

I am not even sure what the question is you are asking, but it is misleading to say that Hamas and Fatah "stem from the same root." Fatah was founded as a secular movement and had much more in common with 1950s Arab nationalism than it does with Islamism.; १७/१०/१८, १२:५७ AM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: ”Are you using Google Translate to post? No disrespect intended, but your posts can be somewhat difficult to follow, and you have a habit of using pronouns without antecedents.”

He thinks it’s edgy.; १७/१०/१८, १:०३ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @mccullough:

If you disagree then just say so.

It does not really have much of anything to do with my argument. I actually support a complete moratorium on immigration into the country for a minimum of 10 years and then after that a sharp reduction in legal immigration based on skills and an abolition of family-based migration. What I am pushing back against are attempts to smear Khashoggi as a terrorist or a jihadist.

It’s like your posts yesterday saying the Houthis weren’t backed by Iran and Saudi Arabia wasn’t acting defensively. I said five times I didn’t care about that and it had nothing to do with my argument.

And I'll repeat a request I made yesterday:

"The primary effect of Saudi foreign policy in the region has been the destabilization of Syria and Yemen, the empowering of Sunni jihadists in those countries, and an attempt to blockade and isolate Qatar, which houses the largest US base in the middle east.

Please explain how this serves American interests."; १७/१०/१८, १:०५ AM
mccullough म्हणाले...: You’re blaming Syria’s civil war on the Saudis? That seems like a stretch.

Yemen has not been stable since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It’s always been a poor dysfunctional country, which is why it’s a haven for jihadists. It’s been worse the last 3 years but it has never been stable.

Saudi Arabia is useful to the US because it’s the second largest oil producer in the world and has huge oil reserves. Until someone can actually figure out a cheaper form of energy, oil is going to be important for awhile.

So we put up with a lot of their shit because of this. Just as Europe puts up with a lot of shit from Russia.

This civil war in Yemen that the Saudis have joined and Khashoggi are still within the threshold of shit we out up with. We’ve actually put up with worse shit from these jagoffs. After 9/11, the US should have gone in there in taken out the Grand Mufti and the tens of thousands of clerics that spread salafism throughout the world the last 40 years along with all the Saudis who helped finance terrorists. We should have ripped up every student visa given to a Saudi and banned immigration from that place.

Instead we invaded fucking Iraq.; १७/१०/१८, १:२१ AM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: The longest post-season game was in 1916. 14 innings. Total duration 2:32. This game is what? Over five hours?; १७/१०/१८, १:२३ AM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: Five hours and 15 minutes.; १७/१०/१८, १:२८ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @mccullough:

You’re blaming Syria’s civil war on the Saudis? That seems like a stretch.

No, but I am pointing out the effects of Saudi Arabia's express policy of attempting to topple the Assad government and for providing arms, funding, and assistance to groups like the Al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham.

Saudi Arabia is useful to the US because it’s the second largest oil producer in the world and has huge oil reserves. Until someone can actually figure out a cheaper form of energy, oil is going to be important for awhile.

The US and Saudi Arabia were also close in 1973, when the Saudis led the Arab oil embargo. And the Saudi efforts to weaponize oil to force foreign governments to change their policies towards the Arab-Israeli conflict were a total failure. How will the US withdrawing support for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen affect oil production? If your argument is that the Saudis can do whatever they want because they have oil, then you are essentially putting Saudi Arabia in charge of American foreign policy.; १७/१०/१८, १:३९ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: p.s. Pakistan adopted a position of neutrality towards Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen. Has this harmed Saudi-Pakistan relations in any discernible way?; १७/१०/१८, १:४३ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: After 9/11, the US should have gone in there in taken out the Grand Mufti and the tens of thousands of clerics that spread salafism throughout the world the last 40 years along with all the Saudis who helped finance terrorists. We should have ripped up every student visa given to a Saudi and banned immigration from that place.

So we have to support the Saudis in Yemen because of oil, but we also should have invaded and attacked them? How is this a coherent position?; १७/१०/१८, १:४८ AM
Tyrone Slothrop म्हणाले...: I bleed Dodger blue, but Manny Machado has got to cut that shit out.; १७/१०/१८, २:०१ AM
mccullough म्हणाले...: The “support” is light. We also want some involvement in Yemen because we drone jihadists there. And it’s not irrational to think that the Houthis will have more difficulty keeping any control over the jihadists that roam around Yemen than the current government, who the US has a relationship with. After all, the Houthis started this civil war and have no experience running a country. They’d probably last as long as The Brotherhood did in Egypt.

And we didn’t need to topple the Saudi government after 9/11. Just kill a few thousand specific targets. And to tell the King that his tolerance of the Wahhabism and financial support for them is done. But we’re 16 years too late for that now. If we put up with that, we can put up with a civil war in which no Americans are getting killed and we’re not pouring money into. And some Brotherhood operative getting whacked by his countrymen just isn’t worth sneezing about.; १७/१०/१८, २:०५ AM
mccullough म्हणाले...: After Machado got to second on the wild pitch it was a bad idea to keep pitching to Bellinger. He’s a much better hitter and more clutch than Grandal.; १७/१०/१८, २:०७ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @mccullough:

The “support” is light

That is a meaningless distinction. If the Chinese were to provide the North Koreans with intelligence and targeting assistance and logistics with which to attack a US target, would it not be a problem since it was only "light" support?

And as for that "light" support:

"The Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) is entirely dependent on American and British support for its air fleet of F-15 fighter jets, Apache helicopters, and Tornado aircraft. If either Washington or London halts the flow of logistics, the RSAF will be grounded. The Saudi army and the Saudi Arabian National Guard are similarly dependent on foreigners (the Saudi Arabian National Guard is heavily dependent on Canada). The same is also true for the Saudis’ allies like Bahrain."

And it’s not irrational to think that the Houthis will have more difficulty keeping any control over the jihadists that roam around Yemen than the current government, who the US has a relationship with.

That is not even the Saudis own rationale for their own war. And the Houthis are at least sworn enemies of Al Qaeda. The Saudi intervention has involved the recruiting and supporting of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

And some Brotherhood operative getting whacked by his countrymen just isn’t worth sneezing about.

If you have ever once read me making that argument, please quote it.

I'll repeat the question and statement from my previous reply that you ignored. How will the US withdrawing support for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen affect oil production? If your argument is that the Saudis can do whatever they want because they have oil, then you are essentially putting Saudi Arabia in charge of American foreign policy.; १७/१०/१८, २:३५ AM
Saint Croix म्हणाले...: Leftist going berserk over the NPC meme. Twitter helping by banning more people using the meme.

First time I'd heard of the NPC meme.

NPC is a video game term that stands for non-player characters. The idea is that the left is filled with robots who repeat their programming and are very predictable and boring. An NPC is represented by a gray, two-dimensional, non-human face.

Good round-up here (with cartoons!). I like how they're calling Trump "orangeman." That's funny. The art is mocking and powerful.

And Twitter is censoring all this stuff. Wow.; १७/१०/१८, २:५२ AM
Saint Croix म्हणाले...: The Gosnell movie opened last Friday. Haven't seen it yet. 8.4 over at IMDB. Not sure if that's an artistic judgment or a partisan one.

Making the movie was incredibly difficult for the filmmakers. They could not raise the money in Hollywood, so they had to crowd fund it. Kickstarter tried to censor the movie. The filmmakers got so pissed off about that he paid for a billboard outside their New York headquarters. Raised $2 million on Indiegogo instead.

Making the movie would be a risk to anybody's career. Andrew Klavan stepped up and wrote the screenplay. He's a genuine talent. A pro-choice Republican (Dean Cain) is the lead actor. He played Superman in the TV show. Other actors dropped out of the project out of fear.

Took them forever to get a distribution deal. Limited distribution, 673 theaters. Almost no press, almost no media reviews. Like the Gosnell trial itself, a media blackout.; १७/१०/१८, ३:१२ AM
gadfly म्हणाले...: I see that we have a new name for our diarrhea-of-the-mouth President. David Gregory calls Trump "O.J." as in O.J. Simpson, because Donald offered up the "rogue killers" theory to explain the death of Wapo reporter Jamal Khashoggi. Everyone knows that Prince Mohammed bin Salman would never have a man put to death then dismembered with a bone saw before transporting the pieces to Riyadh - an obvious interrogation gone wrong!

“[Trump] is such a loose talker,” Gregory said. “He just says what pops into his mind, not thinking that as the president of the United States you don’t want to replay this notion that there were rogue killers like he’s, you know, O.J. Simpson talking about tracking down the real killers in that murder trial.”; १७/१०/१८, ५:०२ AM
brylun म्हणाले...: Farmer's back, supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, along with Paul Pillar, Lawrence Wright (New Yorker Magazine), Obama, Kerry, John Brennan, Keith Ellison, NYT, WaPo and other leftist sources.

On the other side you will find people like Andrew McCarthy. And me.; १७/१०/१८, ५:१७ AM
brylun म्हणाले...: Oh, I forgot to list Louis Farrakhan among the supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood.; १७/१०/१८, ५:३१ AM
gadfly म्हणाले...: J. Farmer said...
How will the US withdrawing support for Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen affect oil production? If your argument is that the Saudis can do whatever they want because they have oil, then you are essentially putting Saudi Arabia in charge of American foreign policy.

Factually, the Saudi's can no longer control oil supplies and prices long term - unless Trump permits them to do so. The Arabians are a distant second to the U.S in the crude oil business and ours is better stuff being pumped from modern deep well facilities, can you say fracked?

Those well pumps run by the Saudis are old and tired and their wells are drawing down after many years of greedy over-production. Important repair parts come from the U.S., so here is an economic war that cannot be won by the Saudi Royals.; १७/१०/१८, ५:३३ AM
brylun म्हणाले...: Andrew McCarthy: Ted Cruz Is Right: The Muslim Brotherhood Is a Terrorist Organization

Obama: Anti-Anti-Terrorist

Andrew McCarthy Not Losing Sight Of Who And What Muslim Brotherhood Is

"Moderate" Muslim Brotherhood Mourns Terrorist's Death; १७/१०/१८, ५:३८ AM
tim in vermont म्हणाले...: Thanks for the tips. I am bookmarking the Springfield one.; १७/१०/१८, ७:११ AM
tim in vermont म्हणाले...: Ok, I am ready for a flip phone. I just texted a picture of my boat ffor an insurance claim and right away got a boat related ad. I tried to enable pure texting without any 'helpful' features and was unable to when I got the phone. Fuck you Android, fuck you Verizon. I just added that because it seems pretty clear that they are reading my posts too. Do I sound like Kanye?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life they will creep.; १७/१०/१८, ७:२६ AM
tim in vermont म्हणाले...: I used to post with a Hillary avatar that made her look like Mao. Democrats produced it, BTW. I got an ad from Amazon for a t-shirt with the image.; १७/१०/१८, ७:२९ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: shorts" who cares when you got this

https://www.sadanduseless.com/funny-crochet-menswear/; १७/१०/१८, ७:४६ AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...: They are spying, T in V.

This couple did an experiment at home. I heard it on an electronics show in the radio. The couple started talking aloud to each other about needing to feed the cat. (they don't have a cat) and sure enough, cat product ads rushed in. They are spying. Google, facebook, the carriers. They are all in on it.; १७/१०/१८, ८:१५ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Yes that was the basis for the oil spoke after 2007 re the ghawar fields based on that book by simmons.; १७/१०/१८, ८:१९ AM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves म्हणाले...: Trump Was Right: City Council Offices, Headed by San Juan Mayor, Have Been Raided by the FBI; १७/१०/१८, ८:२१ AM
FIDO म्हणाले...: So I went to Rotten Tomatoes to see the ratings for 'The Conners'

The critics rated it 98%.

The fans (so far) rated it 28%.

This isn't the 50s so we Know the media company wants to 'make some buzz'.

So such diametrically opposed ratings makes you question your media consumption.; १७/१०/१८, ८:२६ AM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: Regarding Khashoggi, I will be damned if I want the MSM — or Farmer, or anyone besides Trump, Pompeo, and Msttis — trying to determine US policy regarding Saudi Arabia, or any other country.; १७/१०/१८, ८:३९ AM
Quaestor म्हणाले...: Farmer's back...

J. Farmer never tires of pontificating. He should wear a pope hat.

The only thing we know about the Khashoggi affair, apart from the fact that it is the obsession du jour among the usual suspects in the MSM, is that political elements who would benefit from a diplomatic rupture between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia say he's been murdered. Evidence of that murder consists of what? Khashoggi is missing. So far no corpus delicti. But well howdy we have now been told his body has been dissolved in acid. If that were true shouldn't the witness come forth? Must we rely on the famous dodge of the anonymous source to find the Kingdom guilty of the worst crime since Auschwitz?

It seems to me this could well be another case of moral panic egged on by the MSM. Barely a week ago Brett Kavanaugh and family nearly had their lives ruined by another evidence-free accusation followed by a mob hysteria manufactured by the same Democratic propaganda machine. Trump is resisting the fevered shouts and foam-flecked mobs who would, like Robert Bolt's Young Roper, hew down every law to get at the devil.

My gratitude for President Trump increases daily.; १७/१०/१८, ८:४५ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Yes because their reaction is almost invariably wrong:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/10/the-european-reaction-to-khashoggi.php

This does have some similarities to erdmans potboiler I must admit though. In that instance the new Prince has but his chips all with the us.; १७/१०/१८, ८:४६ AM
Michael K म्हणाले...: Democracy dies in mob rule.

Thanks to Frank's brilliance, the mob won't rule.

Some of you lefties are taking Maxine pretty seriously..

Not you,. of course.; १७/१०/१८, ८:५३ AM
Michael K म्हणाले...: We should have ripped up every student visa given to a Saudi and banned immigration from that place.

Instead we invaded fucking Iraq.\

Well said. Farmer is on my ignore list.; १७/१०/१८, ९:०३ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: More fake news:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ahmed/status/1052549801974218753; १७/१०/१८, ९:०८ AM
wildswan म्हणाले...: Start with NPC, replace each letter with the letter preceding it in the alphabet, NPC = MOB.
Cruising the internet strip last night, I found that.; १७/१०/१८, ९:१७ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Then there's this:

https://www.11alive.com/mobile/article/news/local/atlanta-city-council-votes-to-settle-12-million-lawsuit-with-former-fire-chief/85-604676694; १७/१०/१८, ९:२२ AM
Quaestor म्हणाले...: The comments of Kelvin Cochran were not reflective of who Atlanta is as a tolerant and inclusive city...

Proglodytes have epic difficulty with pronouns.; १७/१०/१८, ९:२७ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Oh you betcha:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bc62b71e4b055bc947ae270/amp; १७/१०/१८, ९:३८ AM
walter म्हणाले...: More commentary, along with the link dropping would be nice.; १७/१०/१८, ९:४५ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: It's about prog concerns over bolsanaro victory and their skydragon netting; १७/१०/१८, ९:४७ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: I wrote long posts re the brotherhood various branch operations and examples to counter them, notably in Algeria back in the 90s,; १७/१०/१८, १०:११ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @Big Mike:

Regarding Khashoggi, I will be damned if I want the MSM — or Farmer, or anyone besides Trump, Pompeo, and Msttis — trying to determine US policy regarding Saudi Arabia, or any other country.

So then you have no opinion on foreign policy? You're fine with simply outsourcing your thinking on the subject to this trio? If you want to simply take the position that you will agree with every foreign policy decision they make, go right ahead.; १७/१०/१८, १०:१४ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @Michael K:

Farmer is on my ignore list.

No I'm not.; १७/१०/१८, १०:१५ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @brylun:

Farmer's back, supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, along with Paul Pillar, Lawrence Wright (New Yorker Magazine), Obama, Kerry, John Brennan, Keith Ellison, NYT, WaPo and other leftist sources.

On the other side you will find people like Andrew McCarthy. And me.

Brylun's back with more useless and lame attempts at guilt-by-association. Nathan J. Brown and Georges Fahmi are not "leftist sources," and even if they were, if a "leftist source" says 2+2=4, they're not wrong. The facts and arguments are what matter, not boring tribal partisanship. I am presuming you have never read The Looming Tower, but Lawrence Wright is a staff writer for The New Yorker so you dismiss it. That's some real airtight reasoning there.; १७/१०/१८, १०:२३ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Covering with a pillow:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1052197896542674945; १७/१०/१८, १०:२६ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: This refers to the the way the post misrepresents synemas actual behavior in the early part of the war, she was probably more in the Edward said camp then say hasan al bannas; १७/१०/१८, १०:३० AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १७/१०/१८, १०:३६ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @Quaestor:

J. Farmer never tires of pontificating. He should wear a pope hat.

I look awful in hats. Though I could probably pull off Benedict XVI's red prada shoes.

As for the Khashoggi case, the most prudent position to take at this point is one of agnosticism. There is certainly reason to be suspicious of the Saudis, though. There has already been a large crackdown on dissidents and regime critics in the country, some of whom have been seized while in foreign countries, such as UAE and Jordan. The Saudis initial claim was that Khashoggi had simply left the building but never presented any evidence of this (e.g. CCV footage). They agreed to allow Turkish authorities to search the consulate but then delayed for several days, and hours before Turkish authorities began their search, a cleaning crew armed with mops, buckets, and bottles of bleach entered the consulate. Obviously none of this is definitive, and recent media reports have suggested that Saudi Arabia is preparing to take some limited blame for wanting to render Khashoggi and that his killing was a result of a rogue element, otherwise known as a fall guy. But of course even that is speculation. We will have to wait and see how things pan out. But as I have said repeatedly, the case for reforming the U.S.-Saudi relationship existed long before and is independent of Khashoggi's alleged murder. Can anyone even identify a significant thing (other than headaches) the Saudis have provided us over the last 10 years?; १७/१०/१८, १०:४७ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Would a Salman less kingdom or at least one more under the control of his father be more reliant on the umma, like king fahd more anti American like faisals more supportive of groups like al queda.; १७/१०/१८, १०:५२ AM
Michael K म्हणाले...: More common sense on Khashoggi.

The Khashoggi story has no one close to a hero, not even, perhaps especially, its subject, who was for decades part of the Wahhabi government so in love with beheadings. The disappeared so-called journalist -- actually a lifelong activist for the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist organization that sought, and still covertly seeks, world domination through the likes of Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri -- is scarcely someone to be admired, even with his Washington Post byline. (Mr. Bezos, please explain why a man with this history is writing for your newspaper.)

And, of course, the USA has for years practiced targeted assassinations, via drones and other methods. The Israelis are thought to have taken out several Iranian nuclear scientists via drive-by killings and other strategies. Complaints were muted, as well they should have been.

If you want $400 oil, go after the Saudis like Graham wants to do.

This is just more TDS.; १७/१०/१८, ११:०४ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @narciso:

Would a Salman less kingdom or at least one more under the control of his father be more reliant on the umma, like king fahd more anti American like faisals more supportive of groups like al queda.

Saudi Arabia has been selling "modernization" and "reform" for decades. There are structural issues to how that society is arranged that make either difficult propositions. MBS' attempt to try to ram through whatever changes he wants by silencing critics and consolidating power have not born much fruit. He has gotten his country bogged down in a quagmire in Yemen, his desire to float ARAMCO shares is dead in the water, and his heavy handed tactics have contributed to massive capital flight from Saudi Arabia, the exact opposite of MBS' stated goals.

I don't recall you specifically bringing up oil, but since it is often touted as the sine qua non of our relationship with Saudi Arabia, it is important to remember that Saudi Arabia does not sell oil because it is "pro" the country it sells to. It does so because it is in its self-interest to do so, and because the country remains highly dependent on oil sales. When the Saudis did attempt to weaponize oil to compel countries to change their Arab-Israeli policy, it failed.; १७/१०/१८, ११:०७ AM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @Michael K:

If you want $400 oil, go after the Saudis like Graham wants to do.

That is an endorsement of Saudi Arabian blackmail against the United States. First, there is good reason to believe it is empty bluster. Second, it subordinates US interest in the Middle East to doing whatever the Saudis want and puts us in the position of rewarding Saudi threats against us, an unusual position for a client state to put its patron in. Third, it is possible (and desirable) to realign the US-Saudi relationship without recourse to sanctions or other punitive measures.; १७/१०/१८, ११:१३ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: No we see how these scenarios have played out in the past sanctions which is what they are going for, boycotts lead to unrest which sometimes are poorly handled, oil markets don't like unrest.; १७/१०/१८, ११:४७ AM
narciso म्हणाले...: Some of the objections are very ridiculous:

https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/271637/media-claims-facts-about-khashoggis-terror-ties-daniel-greenfield; १७/१०/१८, १२:११ PM
J. Farmer म्हणाले...: @narciso:

Some of the objections are very ridiculous

Calling it a "conspiracy theory" is foolish, but there is obvious push back from conservative media to portray Khashoggi as a jihadist, which is as wrong as trying to portray him as a secular progressive. As usual, the truth is more complicated than the narrative and counternarratives being pushed by partisan mudslingers. Khashoggi's belief that Afghans should fight against the Soviet invasion of their country was the precise position of the Reagan administration, and there is no evidence that Khashoggi shares the radical salafist views of Al Qaeda.; १७/१०/१८, १२:३१ PM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: So then you have no opinion on foreign policy?

Did I write that? My opinion is that Trump is remarkably clear-eyed about a foreign policy that puts America first, and that he's much more right than you are.

You're fine with simply outsourcing your thinking on the subject to this trio?

Actually yes. First, because during the course of my career I have held clearances that required polygraphs, and consequently I'm aware that people at the level of Mattis, Pompeo, and Trump have access to vastly more information than you or I will ever have, and certainly more than any journalist will ever have. So far they appear to have been using that information very wisely.

If you want to simply take the position that you will agree with every foreign policy decision they make, go right ahead.

This is not just a strawman, but a strawman made of inferior straw.

But here's the thing, Farmer. You have a way of stating things as though you are absolutely sure and certain of their validity, but that is a technique I have seen over and over again used by professors and other people who, in fact, are speaking more from ideology than from any real world observations. From an objective perspective, the combination of Mohammad bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Donald Trump, and Jared Kushner has brought us closed to peace in the Middle East than at any time in the last seventy years. Jamal Khashoggi may be a jihadist who got what's coming to him, or may not be. You confidently assert that he was not, but where is the proof of your assertion? Your unsupported word is not good enough. And at any rate his fate is not worth changing the course of Trump's diplomatic initiatives over.; १७/१०/१८, २:०२ PM