And in a nod to Mr. McCain’s affection for the rites of tradition and his penchant for the irreverent, the ceremony got underway with a choir’s rendition of 'Amazing Grace,' but his flag-draped coffin was taken out of the sanctuary by a military honor guard to the piped-in voice of Frank Sinatra singing "My Way."To refresh your memory:
Here's how I blogged that in real time:
FINALLY: Trump and Melania appear. Her white dress reminds me of cake decorating. Her bare shoulders glimmer. Trump's tux has extremely baggy pants. He eschews tailoring. That's his style. They dance that dance that's not really a dance — just rocking back and forth. I'm worried that the bulky Trump will squish the delicate swirl of fabric that extends from Melania's extensive bust. The dress is floor-length and then some, and I'm sure he's treading on it. Don't tread on me!I like the way the Times was careful enough to write "the piped-in voice of Frank Sinatra singing 'My Way'" and not just "Frank Sinatra singing 'My Way.'" Keep it factual. Frank Sinatra was not there. We all know he couldn't be there. He ate it up long ago and spit it out in 1998. But the newspaper of record does well to stick firmly to the facts. It was the piped-in voice of Frank Sinatra at John McCain's funeral. And probably many other funerals. Many people loathe that song, but there's always one person who thinks (or whose family thinks) that he is perfectly unique. Of course, they are right. But there's a big swagger to the song, a fuck you all, I'm outtahere. Which is nervy at a funeral. And downright scary at an inauguration.
The song is "My Way" — "I ate it up and spit it out."
The other thing I wanted to highlight from the NYT is this:
[T]he gathering’s most awkward moment: that belonged to [Tommy Espinoza, a Mexican-American leader], who invoked Sarah Palin, Mr. McCain’s running mate in the 2008 presidential election. Ms. Palin was not invited to any of the memorial services, and Mr. McCain, in his final book and in an HBO documentary, said he wished he had defied his advisers and picked his friend, former Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, for vice president.They laughed at Sarah Palin. Espinoza delivered a heavy-handed laugh cue and the people laughed and then stifled it.
Mr. McCain asked Mr. Espinoza’s wife, he recalled, what she would think about selecting a woman as his running mate.
“'Well, I really don’t care if it’s a man or a woman — if something happens to you, I want to make sure that person can run the country,’” Mr. Espinoza recounted his wife saying, prompting fleeting and muffled laughs in the church.
IN THE COMMENTS: Bushman of the Kohlrabi said:
the piped-in voice of Frank Sinatra singing 'My Way'I believe this refers to the press reaction to this famous Trump tweet:
But were there any actual pipes involved?
I'm just trying to hold the Times to their own Trump standards here.
Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 4, 2017
The NYT published: "Trump Digs In on Wiretap, No Matter Who Says Differently."
In recent days, the president and his aides have tried to recast his original assertion to make it more defensible. Mr. Trump and Mr. Spicer have both noted that in two Twitter posts the president used quotation marks around the phrases “wires tapped” or “wire tapping,” which they said indicated that they were not meant to be taken literally....The Times didn't even put quotation marks around "piped-in."
पोस्ट्स
२२१ टिप्पण्या:
221 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Not only was Palin not invited, add in Nicole Wallace, Steve Schmidt and other campaign advisors. Talk about petty. Obama won the election; McCain’s running mate and campaign people didn’t lose it.
“'Well, I really don’t care if it’s a man or a woman — if something happens to you, I want to make sure that person can run the country,’” Mr. Espinoza recounted his wife saying, prompting fleeting and muffled laughs in the church.
Yet Barack Obama, man of little accomplishment, chose Joe "Bad Touch" Biden, the plagiarist and blowhard.
Regrets, I've had a few. Probably because John McCain the politician was a weasel. You read it here first.
We've seen what Hillary can do. Could Sarah Palin be any worse? Maybe, but I don't think she would be anywhere near as evil.
He should have said, "'Well, I really don’t care if it’s a man or a woman — if you're elected, I want to make sure that person can run the country,’”
but there's always one person who thinks (or whose family thinks) that he is perfectly unique
Yah, non-conformists all look alike. The My Way thing is always tongue in cheek, a bit over the top. It's camp. That guy isn't the guy who preys on the weak or rides in to town and hangs the first people he finds to set an example for the rest. You want a President like that. I'll take a President like that over the earnest prick every time.
Palin would be a boring President.
Trump is still occupying space in McCain's dead head.
“Regrets, I’ve had a few” and here’s one I want my Mexican friend to mention: Sarah Palin
How in the hell does one become anointed as a "Mexican-American leader?"
"piped in"
FAKE NEWS!!!!!
No pipes involved. More proof that the NYT is conspiring with Iran, and China to overthrow the Trump Presidency. The use of the words piped in, is sometimes used in spycraft to signal the time an place of the money exchange. In this case the amount would be at a minimum of $ 1 billion US
the piped-in voice of Frank Sinatra singing 'My Way'
But were there any actual pipes involved?
I'm just trying to hold the Times to their own Trump standards here.
How to become a Mexican-American leader? I've wondered about that, too.
Is it something you apply for, pay a licensing fee, and wait 12 weeks for the certificate to come in?
Does it have to be renewed every four years?
Do you have to have Mexican ancestry? After all, Elizabeth Warren is Native American, and none of her ancestors were Native American.
Is speaking Spanish a requirement?
Reinforces my belief that the Mrs and the Miss are very vindictive people.
“I feel that [the president] cares about the way that black people feel about him, and he would like for black people to like him like they did when he was cool and in rap songs,...and he will do the things that are necessary to make that happen. Because he’s got an ego like the rest of us and he wants to be the greatest president, and he knows that he can’t be the greatest president without the acceptance of the black community. So it’s something that he’s gonna have to work towards, but we gonna have to speak to him.”
- Kanye West, echoing my views exactly.
I voted for John McCain for president, and took a lot of abuse for doing so over Obama, so I know who he was. John McCain was a good man in a broken world. Donald Trump is a bad man trying to fix it. I don't see a problem - yet. That they gave each other serious side-eye, even as one checked out, was almost inevitable. Guess what?
Men do that.
As it did during their campaign, the presence of Palin would make McCain look small. They managed to make him look small even in her absence.
McCain was not a good man. He was a vindictive little schmuck and a LIAR, and he lied about the big things like repealing Obamacare and securing the border. What he was good at was being a loser. He was a good loser; Trump had him down.
I claim McCain isn't in the box, so he's piped in too.
While John McCain was still alive, someone should have done a poll of the people who voted for him in 2008. One simple question, "Did you vote for McCain in spite of his choice of Sarah Palin or because of her?" I think some of his anger and pettiness is because he already knew the answer, and it's why Sarah smiles.
No class when alive, no class when dead.
McCain supported the IRS suppression of Tea Party groups.
McCain pushed the CIA-produced, Clinton-paid-for Steele nonsense.
McCain was about his own and government power.
That makes him a standard-issue politician.
Shame he was ever commissioned. If ever a man was suited by nature for the title of Chief Petty Officer, it was John McCain. The pettiest of the petty.
Man, you guys are hung UP on McCain. Sarah Palin can barely construct a sentence and you think he diminishes her? So wild.
I remember her debate with Joe Biden. I watched it with a white conservative friend who was POSITIVE she not only won the debate but swung the election. There was no talking him out of it.
This problem, of Americans being unable to grasp reality, can be frightening over extended periods of time.
Shouting Thomas said...
"How in the hell does one become anointed as a "Mexican-American leader?""
By staying-the-fuck-away from you.
A Senator is elected, not crowned. He is sent to Congress to represent and carry out the wishes of his constituents, not to do things "My Way".
Mr. McCain, in his final book and in an HBO documentary, said he wished he had defied his advisers and picked his friend, former Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, for vice president.
He would have wound up like Walter Mondale in 1984, campaigning hard in his home state in the last week or so of the election to stave off a 50 state landslide.
@David Begley, you are right that McCain’s advisors and running mate did not lose the election for him, but I believe that McCain himsrlf lost it more than Obama won it.
McCain might have won the election if he had come out strongly against the Wall Street bailout. (He probably would have lost anyway).
He then could have run against W and Obama. Instead he “suspended his campaign” for a few days. He basically threw in the towel at that point and you could tell he didn’t want to win. Can’t blame him for that. McCain had no interest in economics and it was clear that Americans were not interested in foreign policy and war, McCain’s two main areas of interest.
McCain was perfect for the Senate. He knew it. Running for President was a vanity project.
The cool kids are making jokes about the other kids not invited to their special party.
Some people never get past high school maturity.
Blogger rehajm said...
Palin would be a boring President.
You say that as it it would be a bad thing.
Was it Gary Johnson who said that if he were elected president, he would want to be so boring that nobody would remember his name. Something like that, anyway.
I think Ms Palin, would have been a really interesting Senate President.
John Henry
Listened to morning shmoe a little bit. They think they have Trump in ANOTHER box. He was asked yesterday in an interview if McCain would have been a better President than Obama. The President responded that he had an opinion, a strong one, but now was not the time to express it.
So the narrative is now that the, President does not think McCain would have been a better President. Not, the President refused to answer. My question is, what would McCain have answered?
I have noticed lots of the criticism of President Trump is based on unapproved responses. Not wrong, just unapproved or no response. We all know the President is always required to respond when the media asks every inane question.
John McCain was a shit.
He was a shit naval officer, a shit Naval Aviator, a shit politician and a shit person. Now he has shown himself to be a shit even as a corpse.
Instead of burying him they should have just flushed him.
Despite the way he and his crew treated Gov Palin, she always remained loyal and never badmouthed him. Even sent a nice note to the wife. A very classy lady. And McCain treated her like shit.
John Henry
Which is nervy at a funeral. And downright scary at an inauguration.
I get why you think it’s nervy at a funeral (though I disagree) but I have no idea why you found it scary at Trump’s Inaugural Ball. He really did get there his way. If he’d run a conventional campaign he probably would have lost, though perhaps not, given that his opponent was Hillary Clinton.
The Crack Emcee said...
Man, you guys are hung UP on McCain. Sarah Palin can barely construct a sentence and you think he diminishes her? So wild.
Yeah, god forbid we talk about McCain in a thread about McCain. Of course he diminished her. She was a rising star who breathed life in his moribund campaign. He hated her for over-shadowing him and blamed her for his own failures. And then he ruined her career.
No class schmuck.
Sarah Palin ran the largest state in the USA, successfully. She broke more glass ceilings than Hillary! ever dreamed of.
Joe L. ran, what exactly? Senate campaigns.
I voted for McCain because he was not Obama, and because he ran with Sarah Palin.
John McCain was not evil, just misguided. He went through hell in Hanoi, and it damaged him. I can't criticize him for that.
By not inviting Palin they saved her the trouble of having to say something nice about the old son of a bitch.
I've heard the old advice about never speaking ill of the dead.
Apparently it's OK if the dead speak ill of the living.
The odds were a hundred to one against me
The world thought the heights were too high to climb
But people from Missouri never incensed me
Oh, I wasn't a bit concerned
For from hist'ry I had learned
How many, many times the worm had turned
They all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round
They all laughed when Edison recorded sound
They all laughed at Wilbur and his brother when they said that man could fly
They told Marconi wireless was a phony, it's the same old cry
They laughed at me wanting you, said I was reaching for the moon
But oh, you came through, now they'll have to change their tune
They all said we never could be happy, they laughed at us and how!
But ho, ho, ho! Who's got the last laugh now?
They all laughed at Rockefeller Center, now they're fighting to get in
They all laughed at Whitney and his cotton gin
They all laughed Fulton and his steamboat, Hershey and his chocolate bar
Ford and his Lizzie, kept the laughers busy, that's how people are
They laughed at me wanting you, said it would be, "Hello, Goodbye."
But oh, you came through, now they're eating humble pie
They all said we'd never get together, darling, let's take a bow
For ho, ho, ho! Who's got the last laugh?
Hee, hee, hee! Let's at the past laugh, Ha, ha, ha! Who's got the last laugh now?
He went through hell in Hanoi, and it damaged him
His nickname was McNasty at the boarding school he went to for only two years.
I bet Trump will exclude John McCain from his funeral, too.
I watched yesterday. Boy, Biden went on for too long. Grant Woods was great. I think he talked himself into the Senate seat. And I noticed MY WAY too. I thought it an oss choice because we were all thinking about a winner, Trump.
I was at the 2008 Republican National Convention. Lieberman was barely tolerated by the crowd of Republican faithful as a major convention speaker. The assembled group offered tepid support even to McCain himself. The ONLY energy in that crowd was for Sarah Palin. Had McCain picked Lieberman as a running mate, he would have lost even worse than he did. Heck, there may very well have been opposition to his nomination on the floor, had that happened.
McCain's severe mistreatment of Palin is one of the reason that I have a hard time sharing in the current hagiography fawning over him.
BTW Sinatra hated My Way but his fans demanded he sing it. He disliked the suggestion that The End is Near, and had enough musical taste to dislike the tune.
Tim Kaine.
She picked Tim Kaine
Imagine the laughter
'navy corpseman' 0bama you sly devil !
“But were there any actual pipes involved?”
The one thing that I would think would have been piped would have been “Amazing Grace”. My father loved that, so we had bagpipes for that song at both my parents’ funeral services. With Trump’s Scottish/Presbyterian roots, I can almost guarantee we hear such at his. Think of it as an ethnic thing.
"... I want to make sure that person can run the country,’” Mr. Espinoza recounted his wife saying, prompting fleeting and muffled laughs in the church."
They laughed at Sarah Palin. Espinoza delivered a heavy-handed laugh cue and the people laughed and then stifled it.
Actually, weren't they laughing at McCain's choice of Sarah Palin?
And you can always tell a member of the Deep State club when they say a president "runs the country" rather than "runs the government".
It sounds like John McCain's funeral exuded the very same aroma he emitted thru most ,if not all, of his life - snide, narcissistic disdain. Even from his casket he's the echo of the somewhat dim-witted frat boy, wannabe Top Gunster.
Interesting - as far as I'm aware, the Navy Tailhook Assn has never given McCain an award or recognition - did he show them his disdain as well - or is it vice versa?
Bagpipes are fine--on the other side of a hill.
Showing just howww classless mccain and his ilk are/were.
They laughed at Sarah Palin. Espinoza delivered a heavy-handed laugh cue and the people laughed and then stifled it.
Indeed, what petty people these be. McCain himself did have a streak of pettiness about him through his career, but I still hope better of the man than that it was he who asked that Palin not be invited.
I was one of those who voted for McCain because of his selection of Palin. I might have still voted for him without, to register a vote against the coronation of the guy whose credential to be president was to run for th office. But, it would have been a negative vote, a vote against. Palin allowed it to be a vote for. Why? Because McCain’s intuitions ran heavily against liberty. He may be called a maverick, but he was a terribly conventional Washingtonian, who had trouble squaring his sanctimony-driven strong government principles against his small-government-conservatism. Palin was a sign that he did indeed care about liberty, and the smaller government that offers it protection.
But he couldn’t run seriously. He wanted to be President, but he didn’t want to beat Obama, or maybe just conceive of himself as President. I mean, which rational person insists he wants to suspend his campaign for a crisis that has greater than a 50% chance to occur during any President’s tenure? It served to show many that he didn’t have Presidential timber.
In the Palin boosted him, but he had to make the sale. And he failed.
As others have said, they invited to the funeral a number of people who stabbed him in the front. Biden with an eulogy? Does anyone remember what Biden said about McCain during the run? And they chose not to invite Palin, who wouldn’t take a stab even when she had been stabbed herself.
The biggest mistake I've ever made on this blog was doubting the sound reasoning Althouse had for voting for Obama over McCain. A McCain victory would have been a disaster and resulted in a Hillary win in 2012.
Did you notice how they crossed Aretha Franklin's legs at the ankles in the casket, which reflected her relaxed style?
In McCain's case they should have crossed his fingers behind his back.
McCain was a flawed character with great press—-except in 2008 when that press swooned over the Big O. McCain never got it. The press dumped him for that new, oh-so-cool guy. McCain thought it must have been Palin’s fault. If he had gotten Lieberman, it would have been Lieberman’s fault. It wasn’t anyone’s fault except McCain’s for believing his own press.
The GOP has not had the ear of the press since FDR. The press always cheers for the Dems. McCain was a great favorite of the press because he frustrated his GOP bretheren so often. The Maverick! Don’t you love it? But McCain thought they loved him when they really hated the GOP.
I won’t miss McCain. He had his moment and it meant nothing. RIP.
McCain's refusal to resign knowing he had a terminal illness was the ultimate egotistical act. He deprived the people of his state representation in the Senate for over a year. As with T.Kennedy, Byrd, Lautenberg..... the swamp celebrates the selfishness of their fellow Democrat.
A McCain victory would have been a disaster
I thought the same about GHWB after '92, despite my ever-growing contempt for Clinton. Thankfully, he was feckless, but they were years which the locusts have eaten. BO was more effective at weakening the country, usually intentionally.
Damn, they throw you a big funeral and then they make it all about the other guy? Punked and used, even in death. If I was a member of McCain’s family, I’d be furious, but apparently they’re cut of the same attention-whoring cloth.
Think about it, of the four people on the 2009 presidential tickets Palin was the only one who had ever ran anything.
McCain's only true base was the liberal media.
This McCain pageant is way out of proportion for a Senator and former Presidential candidate. Who the heck is pushing it on the Public?
Sarah Palin is the classy one here.
McCain lost the election all by himself, despite his hail mary pass attempt to save it with the intrigue of Palin. McCain lost the election when he promised he wouldn't use Obama's reverend Wright as a campaign issue.
Obama would have beat the old man no matter what, and McCain's betrayal of his choice makes McCain look like a sad loser. McCain is a sad loser and a liar. and as democrat. Which is why suddenly, the corruptocrats are all in for McCain.
McCain is also a spoiled brat who crashed planes and narked on his brothers in arms.
screw him;
A little background on McCain's sub-standard flying capabilities:
"McCain, the “below par” pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in 1960.
While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying McCain lost a second aircraft. Timberg described the crash: “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral..."
Flight instructor McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg wrote that McCain radioed, “I've got a flameout” before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump of trees.
The Navy dismissed the crash as “unavoidable” and assigned McCain to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the Forrestal was assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against North Vietnam.
McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors. McCain was transferred from the badly damaged Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. Shortly afterwards, on Oct. 26, 1967, he was shot down and captured by the Vietnamese.
Military jets are like candy.
My Way? Tacky, tacky. Reminds me of a funeral I attended in the 1960's where, during the casket viewing, they played, Walk on By.
Good fucking riddance. The sooner I have to stop hearing the media fellating of this clown the better.
Worms, come and get it!
Blogger rehajm said...
Palin would be a boring President.
Palin was the herald for the approaching Trump. She was the indicator of the restlessness of the people who were getting tired of the inept ruling class.
The left realized how dangerous she was for their future and rolled out all the big guns and all the class hatred they could muster.
The focus of the Democrats' campaign in 2008 was destroying Palin who they rightly saw as an existential threat.
She got her revenge when Trump came and cleaned the Augean stables.
It was the same law firm, Perkins Coie, that ran the Fusion GPS smear agains Trump that also ran the attack campaign against Palin that caused her to have to resign as Governor as she went broke trying to defend herself against a flood of fake ethics complaints.
tim maguire said...
"She was a rising star who breathed life in his moribund campaign."
She gave him one (1) well-delivered speech and nothing but heartache and confusion after that. You guys need to get a grip.
The song makes sense for Trump because he was literally the only one who thought his campaign should be run the way he was doing it if he wanted to win. McCain is just self-aggrandizing himself like he did something important during his long, pointless Senate career.
The left went bat-shit hivemind hate-crazy over Palin after Palin DARED to criticized The Obama.
It's illegal to criticize Hillary and it's unthinkable and immoral to criticize the racist elitist fraud known as Saint Obama.
Tammy Bruce: Too much of Trump's time is spent cleaning up Obama's and the Democrats' deadly messes
Hillarywoodlanders - eat chit.
Gosh, a thread where I agree with Crack.
"My Way? Tacky, tacky. Reminds me of a funeral I attended in the 1960's where, during the casket viewing, they played, Walk on By."
Dionne Warwick or Issac Hayes?
Palin made out well. She’s worth at least $10 million. Wouldn’t have happened without Mccain picking her. Maybe McCain regrets it but Palin doesn’t. She quit her gig as governor to cash in. Don’t blame her either.
Trump’s election put Palin out of business, which is probably fine with her. Has cost her some money but she’s out of the limelight. Can live out the rest of her life in luxury and relative quiet.
What he wanted to lose, the Jones memo proves that, she thought there was something at stake, yes I can see the confusion, she is an
Avowed Christian, but she hasn't forced that belief on anyone, I though you would like that thc
tim maguire said...
"She was a rising star who breathed life in his moribund campaign."
That "moribund campaign" was a man trying to be decent in a world of filth and lies - which, I'm sure, you feel more-than-comfortable wallowing in - along with your "rising star" who fell to Earth as soon as we really got a look at her. Sure, Alaska's a big state, but it's also empty - much like her head often appeared to be. And John McCain couldn't do a damned thing about that. So - staying decent - he let her roll. And he took the loss. With dignity.
May he rest in peace.
Right having her church burned down, having a stalker like mcguinness spreading lies, having your family attacked when you were out of town, speaking before veterans give me some of that.
Was Joe the Plumber invited to any of the funeral festivities? Whatever happened to that guy?
That 2008 campaign was a weird time. With the financial meltdown, it was even weirder than today.
W looked lost. McCain looked lost. Palin looked lost.
Joe the Plumber and Obama were the only ones who kept their cool.
The leftwing attacked Palin viciously and McCain and his family, in the end, selfishly and once again acquiesced to it. McCain wanted to be loved by the democrat-media.
Coward.
Could McCain won against Obama?
May be if:
1. His campaign didn’t throttle Palin
2. His campaign didn’t stab Palin in the back - the two campaign aides not invited were heavily involved - now on msnbc and very anti Trump.
3. He had not treated Obama with kids gloves. Reverend Wright was a huge opportunity.
4. If he had run against the elites that caused the 2008 financial crises.
5. If he had appealed to the working class, especially unions.
6. Acted as if the press was the enemy.
7. Mocked the over the top praise by the press for Obama.
8. Had hit back when Obama through surrogates attacked him.
9. Not stopped his campaign to deal with the financial crises, looking like a grandstander.
Chance of the above actually happening, close to zero.
People can't see conviction, with 10 years hindsight, this is why you got trump in spades.
Walk On By - Issac Hayes
12 minutes of Hot Buttered Soul.
I’m surprised at the vindictiveness of the Democrats after the election to Palin, but it’s the Chicago way.
Perhaps more appropriate is
Massanet's Elegy - Joshua Bell
We see some of the pettiness and ignorance here, among elected officials she warned what Obama would bring about, the future invasion of the ukraine the need for aggressive interrogations after the left had took up the torch of the terrorists.
"was a man trying to be decent in a world of filth and lies"
A mendacious warmonger/shitty pilot.
"She quit her gig as governor to cash in. Don’t blame her either."
That's a lie. Maybe you don't know any better.
Known Unknown said...
"A mendacious warmonger/shitty pilot."
Only someone who doesn't understand history, or warfare, would say this. So that makes you and the president.
Good company.
She gave him one (1) well-delivered speech and nothing but heartache and confusion after that. You guys need to get a grip.
Why I scroll past Crack's silly comments.
I voted for McCain. Not because of Palin, but because after the disgraceful performance by the Democrats in the wake of 9/11, I vowed to never vote for a Democrat again. And I've never regretted that. Of course, the democrats have made it very easy to keep that vow since.
I’m surprised at the vindictiveness of the Democrats after the election to Palin, but it’s the Chicago way.
Like black conservatives, charming female ones must be destroyed to discourage the others. Better not run for national office, Crack.
Dionne Warwick or Issac Hayes?
I suspect it was Warwick as it was likely 1968. The deceased was a young man--early 20's--shot to death, while sitting in his car, by a stranger who mistook him for someone else.
BTW, while both versions are good I also prefer Isaac Hayes.
Blogger rehajm said...
Palin would be a boring President.
You say that as it it would be a bad thing.
I meant it in the way Ann means it. Remember Palin's emails from Alaska that CNN peed their pants over in anticipation? Turned out she was just a boring administrator getting things accomplished.
He was a shitty pilot.
"Going my way" at your funeral = tacky.
Plus, McCain didn't "do it his way". If he had the entire DC Establishment wouldn't be in mourning right now.
He wasn't a "Maverick" - only an elitist who lied to the voters about how he was, and was willing to stab his fellow R Senators in the back.
Which is one reason, he's not going to have a Senate Bldg named after him, if Mitch has his way.
I'm always shocked at the HATRED the elite have for Palin. She doesn't hold office, and isn't seeking one. But damn, they just can't stop attacking her, or bringing up the VP run in 2008, every time they mention McCain.
i seem to be the only Republican upset that McCain tried to nominate Al Gore's running mate - a Liberal on Domestic issues - as his VP.
How many Republicans would've voted for McCain in the primaries, if they'd known he was going to pick Al Gore's running mate as his VP, and run a "bi-partisan" administration?
Of course, that's why he kept it a secret and lied about being a social conservative and a true blue Republican.
Althouse's vote against McCain and her "How McCain Lost me" was one of her best posts.
"Turned out she was just a boring administrator getting things accomplished."
Just like the founders envisioned a president would do: faithfully executing the laws passed by Congress.
McCain crashed four planes. Then got shot down. I wonder if he was following the envelope when the NV got his plane ?
It as no surprise that the people actually invited to his funeral chuckled when Palin was mentioned.
I'm just sorry she sold her Scottsdale home in 2016. I would love to have seen Ducey appoint her to McCain's Senate seat.
You know what pilots say about you cuck doctors, Mike? You bury your mistakes.
Ralph L said...
"Like black conservatives, charming female ones must be destroyed to discourage the others. Better not run for national office, Crack."
I'm an artist. That's it. Like Hitler. Best I stay there.
You're a tough egg, thc an exponent of the Ole time religion doesn't impress?
did he leave on his own terms?
Palin should have turned McCain down and said this" You know old man, you don't have a chance. Plus my crystal ball says you will betray me."
There is no good in burning man, that an alpha strike would cure.
Blogger Howard said...
You know what pilots say about you cuck doctors, Mike? You bury your mistakes.
How would you know, lefty ?
I'm glad Obama was elected over McCain.
It's huge that the United States elected a Black as our President, even if he did not have Black American ancestors.
I have a lot of unhappiness over Obama's failures, but there are some significant positives:
1. Because of Obama, you got Trump that is making a huge positive difference in the US. You need to go back to Reagan for the positive economic changes he is doing.
2. Obama resulted in huge increase in Republicans in office.
3. Obama's overreach via "wiretapping" etc. will help the US be a better place.
4. The MSM has showed how partisan they are.
5. The US Government and elites has been discredited.
Michael K said...
She gave him one (1) well-delivered speech and nothing but heartache and confusion after that. You guys need to get a grip.
"Why I scroll past Crack's silly comments."
Time for another show of hands: who, here, needed to know how Michael K reacts to my comments? Who even WONDERED about it? For the record, my hand is down, though he seems to be under the impression it's a necessary condition of some sort - like he thinks he and his words are held in my high esteem - because he's aggressively started spitting them at me as soon as I got here. Like we're intimates and shit.
I got nothing against you, Michael. You're a crazy conservative ideologue, which means we HAVE to agree somewhere, you just want to make seeing it as difficult as possible. Well, John McCain didn't, and that's the difference. He was trying to grow the Republican Party and you think you ARE the Republican Party.
He will be missed.
Crack would not know a libertarian if one bit him.
Dickin,
McCain claimed to have had a flame out (engine shutdown). The board of inquiry found, officially, that the engine was still generating thrust when it impacted
The only way I can read this is that McCain LIED to the board of inquiry. There are few greater sins in the Navy.
Yet the board let McCain skate. Woul any officer of less distinguished parentage have been allowed to skate?
Note to Howard (I think) McCain was not a pilot. The navy has next to none of those.
He was a Naval Aviator.
John "the pedant" Henry
Crack,
Are uou saying that McCain was a good or competent aviator?
I've never seen any evidence to support that. Quite the opposite. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?
John Henry
McCain was not a pilot. The navy has next to none of those.
To add to the pedantry, the Navy has Harbor Pilots. Nothing to do with aircraft. The Naval Aviators I knew back in the day referred to McCain as a North Vietnamese Ace.
Michael K said...
"Crack would not know a libertarian if one bit him."
Give me a break. Unlike your immediate-but-totally-non-racial attachment to me, I've been uninterested in you, so I had no idea what you were, except insane. Functionally so, obviously - you can write and pay golf I see - but that's Arizona for you. (I've got a foster sister who lives there: JESUS CHRIST, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?) Any fool can see I mention Instapundit almost daily, and they'd easily notice I read Reason as well, which has nothing to do with anything: you've been an unserious, racially-repugnant fool, so far, no matter what else you are. Many people, here, can see I'm trying, kinda, no matter what, but I can't see that from you at all. Again - that's the difference.
John McCain represented something better than you, better than Sarah Palin, and better than Barack Obama, and I voted for that. Proudly. I didn't have to agree with the man on everything. I just had to know there was a real man there and I did.
You Libertarians make people wonder, but - as you can see - it's only if you force us to think of you at all.
Beechcraft Bonanza's are called doctor killers, Mike.
Cucks are intimidated by the balls and great accomplishment of John McCain, therefore, the hate shines through their cowardice hoping to distract from their weak-ass bitch shortcommings.
>>Could McCain won against Obama?
McCain: An American war hero who couldn't beat the son of two communists.
Tell us how Navy distinguished boats from ships
I’m not steeped in the history of McCain’s aviation skills. From what people are writing here, it doesn’t sound like McCain was in the same league as The Red Baron.
But a guy who gets back in a plane, much less a cockpit, after a plane crash is brave. McCain was erratic, like Trump. The two of them hated each other because they are very similar. Cocky, self-absorbed, but funny and a lot of guts.
>>He was a Naval Aviator.
OK, pedantic one... He destroyed 5 american planes. That makes him an Ace. :)
Reason, is handicapped by not appreciating the individual operating inside institutions, like church, family, and yes law enforcement and military, they really take issue with john donne,
'man is a island to them' Reynolds is more cognizant of this, he realizes people are flawed, otherwise we wouldn't need government, but government is flawed in itself,
Darkisland said...
"Are uou saying that McCain was a good or competent aviator?"
No, I wouldn't be the right person to judge that, specifically, but - to put it in terms we all understand - when the time came and push came to shove, John McCain wasn't no punk. Nothing you say about his young life, before he was tested, can diminish that.
I served in the Navy. Even made friends with a pilot who (I think) died in Iran, trying to snatch the hostages. I get the stupid hotshot bullshit they're accused of - until I made friends with this one guy, I despised them, too - but, men who do their duty, as John McCain did, deserve better than y'all are giving him. Sorry he didn't kiss the ring. He wasn't that kind of man. I keep telling you this is the age of cults.
I'd beware anyone too eager we follow.
Howard is here to sock cucks.
Unlike most people here, I have more sense than to debate He Who Shall Not Be Named.
I read a novel several years ago that described "My Way" as The Loser's Anthem. I don't remember if the book was Stark Raving Elvis or The Love Song of J. Edgar Hoover, but I think it was the former.
Blogger Howard said...
Cucks are intimidated by the balls and great accomplishment of John McCain, therefore, the hate shines through their cowardice hoping to distract from their weak-ass bitch shortcommings.
Howard is on a roll. Unusually pissy today.
McCain was the son and grandson of admirals. He had little choice of career. His grandfather was a real hero sacrificed to the Navy's PR on behalf of Halsey, who nearly causes two catastrophes.
A good friend of mine, who flew F 18s in the first Gulf War, just announced his second son will begin flight training at Pensacola.
He was the Marine fighter pilot who flew an F18, under orders, to a McCain fund raiser and then was ignored by McCain as he stood at the end of the receiving line in his flight suit.
He was the one who has convinced me that McCain was an asshole who cared only about his donors.
What plane did you fly, Howard ?
The left is in love with McCain, now that he is dead.
Howard is an example.
John McCain got in trouble because he was young, dumb, and full of cum, plus entitled, indulged, and encouraged - fine. But, when he had to stare at reality directly, in all it's most desperate evolutions (and War IS Hell, Folks) he didn't flinch.
THEY BROKE HIS FUCKING ARMS.
I already don't like most of you enough to do that for you. Maybe he did it for his big shot daddy. I don't know. But I do know there was something inside that man that exemplifies American Greatness, and not much of what the rest of you seem to cherish can even come close to comparing to the awe he instills in anyone willing to appreciate his sacrifice. He's not just a last member of the Greatest Generation but he insured they go out with a bang - TOP THIS, YOU IRRESPONSIBLE SHITHEADS!
Really, like the guys who went to the moon, or MLK, all these attempts at dissing him are just so much wasted air - when the time came he was better than almost all of us - and the fact he was also human makes him all the greater. You simply can't make a dent in that.
Even if they did play "My Way" (Sheesh)
Unlike your immediate-but-totally-non-racial attachment to me, I've been uninterested in you,
This place is called "comments" and others besides you are allowed to comment.
I try to ignore your racist comments but once in a while I weaken and say something. I do try to avoid you.
Your delusion that anyone likes you is understandable.
and they blew out james stockdales eardrum, (that's why he was deaf) but that didn't stop him being a stoic philosopher, and bud day and doug hegdahl, and nick rowe and neil tanner, jerry coffee, none of them turned to be 24 carat jerks,
No Crack. The vn did not break McCain's arms.
Martin baker did.
When he ejected.
Next you'll be telling us Joe Kennedy was shot down over Germany.
And you tell others to read history?
John Henry
A boat, after sinking, can rise again.
A ship, after sinking, stays sunk. (unless salvaged)
Were you in the air force, Howard?
John Henry
I got tired of John McCain when he was alive. Little did I know ...
Why didn't they pipe in the Crash Test Dummies?
Michael K said...
"This place is called "comments" and others besides you are allowed to comment."
Never said otherwise. Carry on.
"I try to ignore your racist comments but once in a while I weaken and say something."
Stop lying. I was attacked before I even said "Hi" here and you chimed in - I remember it and can probably still find the thread to prove it. It's your thing.
"I do try to avoid you."
Such restraint has rarely been so well documented.
"Your delusion that anyone likes you is understandable."
The hostess had me back, a bunch of folks said "Hi" and "glad to have you back" and even nicer things sometimes. Some showed their displeasure, but there's always been a tiki torch crowd here, so that's to be expected - and challenged - though I'm nicer, and more nuanced, than others about it.
Anyway, if anyone's delusional, I'm sorry to say, it's the guy who's actually paying to suffer heat stroke in Arizona - not me. Run, Michael, the lizards won't miss you. And I won't either.
Darkisland said...
"No Crack. The vn did not break McCain's arms.
Martin baker did.
When he ejected.
Next you'll be telling us Joe Kennedy was shot down over Germany.
And you tell others to read history?"
You know what I mean, you moron - why do you guys play such games? Is trying to be top dog so important to you that you have to lie to diminish the man? Whatever you think happened to him: could you have endured HALF of it?
If not, shut up, and let the man pass in peace.
A more appropriate lyric for McCain would be "I did it Hive's Way . . . ."
The only real "maverick" moment I can recall was when, in a presidential debate, he referred to Obama as "Senator Government." And look where that got McCain: the Hive turned on him.
This McCain pageant is way out of proportion for a Senator and former Presidential candidate. Who the heck is pushing it on the Public?
People who hate Trump. That's it.
They're using McCain's corpse in just the latest chapter of their non-stop temper tantrum. And McCain's people are just fine with it.
Click.
great accomplishment of John McCain
Name one.
Just one.
One of McCain’s most Trumpian comments was in 2007 at a campaign event he did the Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran lyric to he beach boys tune.
Obama ripped McCain for it during one of the 2008 debates.
I thought it was sending a serious message in good humor. Presaged the Rocket Man tweets and the ones to the Mullahs.
Trump has ripped into more Republicans than McCain ever did and was nastier about it.
Trump learned a lot from McCain.
Jim at said...
great accomplishment of John McCain
"Name one.
Just one."
I already did: being a bigger man than you.
great accomplishment of John McCain
Chose his ancestors well.
@Crack, according to aviators who flew the A4, the fact that McCain broke an arm and both legs ejecting meant that he was not following proper procedures. He was apparently also too low on his run-in (the Navy believed he was shot down by ground fire and not by a SAM) but if he did hear the warble in his headphones that indicated a SAM was tracking him, as he said he did in his autobiography, and he continued his bombing run instead of taking evasive action, as he said he did in his autobiography, then the responsibility for losing the plane and being captured was his and his alone.
"You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser"~Vince lombardi.
So they've confirmed that a petty man had petty friends. Thanks, was beginning to wonder.
Saw a bit of the Joe Biden bit from the service. He started, in the clip i saw, by introducing himself which was intended as a laugh line. He even paused after he said his name. The crowd obliged by laughing, heartily. I thought, what an insufferable jerk.
-sw
MadisonMan said...
This McCain pageant is way out of proportion for a Senator and former Presidential candidate. Who the heck is pushing it on the Public?
Totally agree. I wonder if we would have the same pageantry if he would have voted to change the ACA, or thrown his support to Trump in 2016. Or even invited Trump to the funeral.
I think we all understand why the media is spending so much time adoring McCain. It's a shame, in a way, because he was a true hero with an amazing life story arc. But this adoration is about hating Trump.
This McCain pageant is way out of proportion for a Senator and former Presidential candidate.
Yeah, its bizarre. Trump has driven the Establishment crazy. That's why we had that crazy MSM/DC establishment chimp-out over Charlottsville and Trump's Helsinki Trip.
Anyone who pushes back 1 MM against their cherished views is denounced as a Racist, Isolationist, bigot, protectionist, populist.
McCain was the leader of the pack - and dis-invited Trump AND Palin to his funeral. So, this is part of the same thread.
Of course, McCain doesn't deserve any of this. He was never in the Senate Leadership, was was only Chairman of Armed services Committee for 2 years. His only significant piece of legislation was Campaign Finance Reform - which got gutted by the courts.
He was wrong about the Iraq war, and despite all his constant overseas trips and blather never had much impact on the REAL decision makers, namely the POTUS, Sec of State, and NSC.
Its interesting that he and John Kerry were big buddies until Kerry became Sec. of State. I wonder what Kerry did, that made the "Maverick" dislike him. Maybe, not listen to him?
This whole spectacle is totally out of proportion to the importance of this man or non-important. He was a petty violent angry obstinate individual. And if the governor appoints his wife or Megan to the Senate seat I will scream. The Senate is not the House of Lords we fought a war over that.
I walked by the TV and was amazed this thing is still going on.
This is an orgy of Trump hate disguised as canonization of an angry old man.
Just walked by the TV again and there is an unending celebration of Aretha Franklin with Farrakhan right in the front row.
A good day to go to the shooting range.
Nice to see the progs and Democrat party members using McCain's corpse to get some digs in at the deplorables. John McCain approved that message.
Anyone watching the competition corpse party? Aretha Franklin funeral on ABC. Bill Clinton hogging the mic, slurring his speech- stroke or drunk? Hey look at Hillary also looking half dead and completely disgusting. Two funerals, one political party, a whole shitload of despicable scumbags. There's never a Muslim terrorist around when you need one...
"here's never a Muslim terrorist around when you need one..."
They know which side of their bread is buttered.
I think it's fair to say that in his long life McCain, on occasion, showed true courage and class. He, also, on occasion, was spiteful and tacky. It seems to me proper and fitting to remember his best moments on the day of his memorial service. It also seems proper and fitting not to use the memory of McCain as a club to beat Trump with on this day.......Weird how the Republicans are hypercritical and the Dems are so lavish in their praise. Well, if the Dems like you in death, it gives you a leg up on posterity.
McCain’s usefulness to the national media ends this week. McCain was by far the most well known GOP Trump critic. Flake and Corker are nobodies. They are lik the guys from the Weekly Standard. Most people don’t have a clue who they are.
Maybe W will step up his criticisms of Trump. The media really needs a well-known GOP critic of Trump. Kasich and Ben Sasse arent going to cut it. But the media always hated W. McCain was the drunk hookup. A media booty call. He was useful for them to trash other Republicans. W doesn’t fit this role.
But it will be fun to watch the media try to whitewash W so as to make him a more effective Trump foil. They could try to elevate someone else, but that won’t work either.
The media is in a tough spot now. They have to pray that Ducey appoints Cindy McCain so she can trash Trump. I don’t know anything about Ducey. He could be this dumb or quietly hates Trump if he appoints Cindy
McCain will be remembered better and longer than Dewey. Bob Dole will be in a class with Mondale.
"Weird how the Republicans are hypercritical and the Dems are so lavish in their praise"
Hardly weird: the Universal Theory of Progressive Instrumentalism predicts that funerals become tools. Only two aspects are weird: the apparent eagerness with which McCain turned his own funeral into a weapon to be used against Trump and Palin, and the fact that some Republicans are pushing back instead of turning the other cheek.
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...
You know what I mean, you moron - why do you guys play such games?
Well, no, I do not know what you mean. I thought I did. I figured this was pretty unambiguous when you said
THEY BROKE HIS FUCKING ARMS.
Your caps and your separation for boldness.
Since McCain has let people think for 45 years that the VN broke his arms, I assumed that you had fallen for it too. Not really a criticism of you. Most people don't know it is not true.
So how was I to know that the "THEY" referred to his ejection seat. You should work a bit more on clarity in writing.
John Henry
I already did: being a bigger man than you.
Oh, dear. The racist, Ritmo-wannabe doesn't think I measure up to the fine standards set by one John McCain.
Just what shall I do.
Musical Interlude
Riders on the Storm - The Doors
The media really needs a well-known GOP critic of Trump. Kasich and Ben Sasse arent going to cut it.
Hello? Mitt Romney calling on Line 2.
Ejecting from the cockpit of the A4 broke McCain's arms.
What the North Vietnamese did was not set them properly, so they healed wrong.
The Spanish incident McCain did not lose a plane, but did return with a bunch of wires attached to his plane, and there was an electrical outage in Spain due to his actions.
Several here and many elsewhere have said that McCain's conduct as a POW was "heroic". As I've said before, I don't have any reason to call it anything less than honorable but I question whether it was "heroic"
What specifically did he do that was heroic? Did he, like Doug Hegdahl, commit acts of sabotage? Did he follow the POW code of conduct that Crack, I and others here were trained on:
Article III:
If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_the_United_States_Fighting_Force
Did he try to escape? Did he resist in any way?
He did not accept an early release. Knowing he would become a felon, likely serve prison time and be forever dishonored made that a somewhat easier choice. Though some might prefer that to sitting in a Hanoi prison under horrible circumstances.
So he doesn't seem to have done anything less than honorable and for that he should be saluted. But heroic?
So, shit Naval Officer, Shit Naval Aviator, Shit politician, shit human being, Shit dead politician, non-shit POW.
Probably can add shit ex-POW as well given the way he traded on it. Not many others did. And not to his degree.
John Henry
John Henry
Rcocean
Romney is high profile, so good point. He’ll win his Senate race in Utah in a walk.
But there are two problems with Romney as GOP Trump critic. One, he’s pretty detested by the media (and progressives)). The media liked McCain except when he ran against Obama or criticized Dems. But Romney’s never been much to the media. He was never the useful and always available sound bite like McCain. He lived for those Sunday morning talk shows (and Fox News appearances as well).
Two, Romney isn’t an effective Trump critic. Romney lambasted Trump once he started doing well in the primaries and pushed by the scenes for a palace coup leading in to the convention. He also barked some during the general election.
But once Trump won, Romney went and kissed the ring. It was the most pathetic display I’d ever seen. Say what you will about McCain, Kasich, and the rest but they didn’t go to Trump Tower or otherwise suck up to Trump. Romney totally debased himself. He has no pride.
Trump will crucify Romney anytime Mitt pops off by posting that photo of Romney eating with Trump after the election. Romney looks like a total sycophant in that photo because that’s what he is. Guy has no spine.
Mitt will be on every Sunday talk show once he starts bashing Trump.
The MSM only cares about bashing Trump - and they want an R Senator to do it.
Mitt fits the bill. He's already called Trump a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe
And a protectionist - who is destroying American Business.
The MSM doesn't care about what happened in the past. They never have.
Since everyone always talks about McCain being a "War Hero".
What is a war hero? To me its someone who sacrifices himself for others, like the guy who threw himself on a grenade, or who stayed behind so other soldiers could retreat to safety.
Or he's the guy, who went "above and beyond the call of duty". Going on a bomber mission that he didn't have to go on. Or racing ahead of his platoon and taking out a machine gun nest single handed (like Audie Murphy)
Or he's like Merret Edson who through his courage and skill saved the Marines on Guadancanal.
I'm not sure what McCain did. Except get shot down and taken prisoner. Yeah, he suffered but 30,000 POW's who were taken by the Japs suffered as well. Not to mention the 7,000 taken by the North Koreans and Chicoms 1950-1953.
McCain - a petty vindictive little creep in death, as he was in life. AFM.
That should be - AMF.
Mitt’s not any good at criticizing Trump. Mitt’s in the Senate for Mitt. He craves the public eye as much as Trump and McCain but doesn’t have their likability and humor. The guy is 70 and worth a quarter billion. Kanye could be president and Mitt wouldn’t know the difference. Maybe he just hates his wife and needs a good excuse to get away from her. That makes the most sense. The guy is not civic minded. He’s self absorbed. And his Stepford Sons are just creepy.
And Mitt looks like a moron talking about tariffs, etc. Mitt talked tough on China back in 2012 but he’s a pussy. If a tariff hurts one of his friends then it’s bad. If China’s behavior makes Mitt or his friends a good buck then it’s fine even if it hurts 500,000 Americans. This is what “free trade” is to Mitt and guys like Sasse. They aren’t fooling anyone anymore except for guys like Chuck.
And Mitt is no good at the populism schtick. He can’t even pretend to give a shit about anyone but himself or his family and friends. If Mitt pops off about Trump then Trump will humiliate him again. Maybe that’s what Mitt likes. Guy is a masochist.
The Left thinks "victim" and "hero" are synonyms. Just being a victim gets you the status of a hero. The Right has a completely different definition of "hero".
well that's interesting, the new guy patten, was indicted for being a republican, came from McCain's thinktank as well from 2001-2003
https://saraacarter.com/two-prosecutors-exit-mueller-team/
you think i'm kidding:
https://twitter.com/Evan_Rosenfeld/status/1035604601532112896
one of the few with any intelligence experience:
https://twitter.com/jabeale/status/1035640622848323584
Crack: "I'm an artist. That's it. Like Hitler. Best I stay there."
I don't care who you are. That's a pretty good line Crack offered up there.
that was the line, jack Nicolson used in the departed
https://twitter.com/Heminator/status/1035281275895078913
McCain will be forgotten in months, not years.
The only "interesting" aspect of McCain's career remaining will be the race amongst the "help the dems" republicans who will now jockey to gain that lofty position as the Only Republican Who Is Decent Because They Spend Every Hour Of The Day Attacking Other Republican's And Helping To Destroy Republican Presidents.
Unfortunately, there are more of them than any of us care to think about.
They also just happen to be ones that LLR Chuck boosts when LLR Chuck isn't busy doing that very same attacking of conservatives of their base voters.
Unexpectedly.
narciso: "that was the line, jack Nicolson used in the departed"
I don't think your link shows that.
Though I wouldn't be surprised.
no that's to thc's point,
I was referring to another obscene display here, and lets leave out Maxine water's presence at the Aretha memorial for a moment,
There were a few heroes in the Hanoi Hilton.
“Ned stepped forward and said, ‘Are we really committed to having church Sunday? I want to know person by person,’ ” a fellow prisoner, Leo K. Thorsness, recounted in a memoir. “He went around the cell pointing to each of us individually,” Mr. Thorsness continued. “When the 42nd man said yes, it was unanimous. At that instant, Ned knew he would end up in the torture cells.”
The following Sunday, Commander Shuman, who died on Dec. 3 at 82, stepped forward to lead a prayer session and was quickly hustled away by guards. The next four ranking officers did the same, and they, too, were taken away to be beaten. Meanwhile, as Mr. Thorsness told it, “the guards were now hitting P.O.W.s with gun butts and the cell was in chaos.”
And then, he remembered, the sixth-ranking senior officer began, “Gentlemen, the Lord’s Prayer.”
Continue reading the main story
“And this time,” he added, “we finished it.”
The guards had yielded.
Everett Alvarez Jr., who was the first American pilot captured in the Vietnam War when his Navy plane was shot down in 1964, said in an interview that the defiance Commander Shuman engineered was emulated by senior officers in other large holding cells.
Not only that but he was a sailor.
In addition to his wife, he is survived by two sons, Edwin IV and J. Brant, and a daughter, Mary Dana Giardina, from his first marriage, which ended in divorce; a stepson, Robert Borte III; nine grandchildren; a great-grandson; three sisters, Mary Russell, Sally Smyth and Ann Mills; and two half brothers, William and John Boeckeler.
After returning from Vietnam, Mr. Shuman was in charge of the Naval Academy’s sailing program. In August 1979, he commanded the Alliance, the program’s aluminum sloop, in the Fastnet race off England and brought his crew back safely amid a storm in the Irish Sea that left 15 other sailors dead.
“I have often compared ocean racing in bad weather with being a prisoner of war, an environment with which, unfortunately, I have some experience,” he wrote in the U.S. Naval Institute magazine Proceedings, in 1999. “Harsh conditions, cramped quarters, bad food and diverse personalities. Instead of the guards beating on you, mother nature takes over.”
Big Mike said...
"The responsibility for losing the plane and being captured was his and his alone."
I don't understand, how you missed me saying I understood that, and it doesn't matter. You're like the kid in school who doesn't get what the teacher just explained. Why don't you address my reasoning for why that doesn't matter? Why just go over that again?
I really don't understand you.
If McCain was that petty and bitter about losing & blaming others, can you just imagine how petty and bitter Hillary will be when her time comes?
Asking for a friend — please don’t shoot me.
johnhenry100 said...
"No, I do not know what you mean. I thought I did."
Torture, you fool. His arms were a tool of his torture to them. Hell, when they first captured him, they broke his shoulder and stabbed him. When I'm speaking in generalities and you hone in on specifics - when you know what I mean - then you're full of shit, John Henry. It's not necessary. You're just fucking up a conversation to bring attention to yourself that's not needed. Now take your fat mouth somewhere else if you're not going to be constructive, but just a butt.
"Since McCain has let people think for 45 years that the VN broke his arms, I assumed that you had fallen for it too. Not really a criticism of you. Most people don't know it is not true."
And you're going around setting the story straight because you were a bigger hero than he was - in any situation in life? You creep.
"So how was I to know that the "THEY" referred to his ejection seat. You should work a bit more on clarity in writing. "
You should find another hobby than trying to bring down bigger men than yourself. You don't gain stature from it.
I have not watched any of this funeral stuff. I voted for him for President but both he and W. Bush lost many admirers after the way they treated Trump voters. I don't have to explain that, do I? I do feel sad for his children and elderly mother who is 106. His non-invitation to Trump with such fanfare was a slap in the face to the very people who voted for McCain in 2008. I just don't understand why the McCain family allowed that. It's like they wanted their public funeral service to be used as a tool of the media to pile on Trump hate...what kind of people do that?
Jim at said...
"Oh, dear. The racist, Ritmo-wannabe doesn't think I measure up to the fine standards set by one John McCain.
Just what shall I do."
You should try to explain how a racist - your word - is defending John McCain, without your dumb ass looking very confused.
See ya, Poncho.
“I just don't understand why the McCain family allowed that. It's like they wanted their public funeral service to be used as a tool of the media to pile on Trump hate...what kind of people do that?”
The kind of family that wants their political dynasty.
Did the Bush family want Trump at Barbara’s funeral?
It's like they wanted their public funeral service to be used as a tool of the media to pile on Trump hate...what kind of people do that?”
I would not be surprised to learn that the family is getting bad advice from angry retainers who are shut out of Trump's Washington.
Like Schmidt and Wallace.
I am coming in really late and only want to say this: The only two hymns/songs needed for the funeral of a Naval person are The Navy Hymn and Anchors Aweigh. Amazing grace is always nice though not at all Naval. Anything else is a waste.
The Naval Hymn Verse 1
Eternal Father, strong to save,
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave,
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep;
Oh, hear us when we cry to Thee,
For those in peril on the sea!
I get tears in my eyes just copying and pasting this.
That's why the politico piece where he supposed takes back what his manservant Salter said three months ago, is ridiculous
Well it's by a repentant fmr slave trader, if memory serves McCain's family had southern roots
Crack continues to issue edicts and judgements from high atop his imagined Olympus.
LOL
Comical. So much pretend power. So much pretend authority. So much pretend insight.
McCain was not the only victim of the Cuba project, It was a,regime psychologist Fernando natural who conducted the interogation.
I get tears in my eyes just copying and pasting this.
Amen.
Barral, it was published in gramma in 1967,
It's sad so many POW marriages ended when they returned. A boy in my 6th grade class stayed with his dad, his older sister with their mother. He was the wildest kid in school, so he needed a father badly.
Blogger Michael K said...
Just walked by the TV again and there is an unending celebration of Aretha Franklin with Farrakhan right in the front row.
CNN and MSNBC have photoshopped Farrakhan out of the funeral video. That's hard work.
I guess he doesn't fit the narrative,
I imagine that had to be a traumatic experience some were gone for up to 6 years.
Meanwhile the press is covering calypso Louis with a cloth
Amazing Grace is ok, but a quick choice for those who don't know much pipe music. Skye Boat for me.
Blogger Michael K said...
Just walked by the TV again and there is an unending celebration of Aretha Franklin with Farrakhan right in the front row.
A good day to go to the shooting range.
Is he just old or a racist? We report, you convict
tcrosse reminds me of the famous one-liner: Impeach the Cox-sacker
I didn't vote for McCain. Never thought he had the nerve to have his finger on the chicken-switch. The boy was never right after Hanoi
I read through the comments. I wonder how some are going to top the vitriol in these comments when Jane Fonda dies.
I wonder how some are going to top the vitriol in these comments when Jane Fonda dies.
It's natural whenever a Canonization is taking place for there to be some Devil's Advocates.
Howard: "Is he just old or a racist?"
Oh that's easy
Farrakhan is both old and racist.
If they were sincere, and they really respected McCain, but I find that very hard to believe:
http://tallahasseereports.com/2018/08/30/breaking-news-andrew-gillums-brother-paid-by-undercover-fbi-agents-posing-as-developers/
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