१८ जून, २०१८

"For perspective, let’s flip the script. Would you believe that answer if it came from Tiger Woods?"

"Mickelson insisted he had not acted in haste or irritation. Instead, he said, he knew that the penalty for striking a moving ball was two strokes, and he had quickly determined that was a better result than letting his wayward putt roll off the green into worse shape. (There is a separate rule for stopping or deflecting a moving ball that could have led to a disqualification, but officials determined that Mickelson had violated the rule for striking a moving ball, not the one for stopping or deflecting one.) 'I’ve thought about doing the same thing many times in my career,' Mickelson said about striking rather than stopping his moving ball. 'I just did it this time. It was something I did to take advantage of the rules as best I can.'"

From "What Was Phil Mickelson Thinking?" by Bill Pennington (NYT) about this bizarre golfing:



Quite aside from what you think about that bizarre golfing, what do you think of the "perspective" supposedly to be gained by asking what we'd think if it was Tiger Woods? Is that supposed to be some sort of racial analysis, like that if you believe Phil Mickelson, you're a carrier of the infection of white privilege?

This is the third NYT article I'm blogging this morning, and the first 2 are about race. Maybe my thinking is skewed to see race everywhere — because, you know, it's deeply complex, historically layered, powerful, and submerged.

८५ टिप्पण्या:

Paco Wové म्हणाले...

"what do you think of the "perspective" supposedly to be gained by asking what we'd think if it was Tiger Woods?"

I think it helps to understand how thoroughly obsessed the NYT is with race (which of course doesn't exist and is simultaneously the most important thing in the world).

donald म्हणाले...

Everything about golf is about Tiger Woods. Everything.

mezzrow म्हणाले...

This is just a little samba, built upon a single note
Other notes are sure to follow but the root is still that note
Now this new note is the consequence of the one we've just been through
As I'm bound to be the unavoidable consequence of you
There's so many people who can talk and talk and talk
And just say nothing or nearly nothing
I have used up all the scale I know and at the end I've come
To nothing I mean nothing
So I come back to my first note as I must come back to you
I will pour into that one note all the love I feel for you
Any one who wants the whole show show do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ci-do
He will find himself with no show better play the note you know

MayBee म्हणाले...

If there's one thing I know about this country, it's that Americans hate Tiger Woods. He cannot succeed because he is black. We won't buy his stories, and we won't buy his products, and we won't root fo him when he plays golf. It's White Phil Mickelson all the way for us.

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

Golfer Breaks Rule
Women and Minorities Hardest Hit

Jaq म्हणाले...

This was classic Phil. The move would never have occurred to Tiger. That being said, he should have been disqualified.

Tank म्हणाले...

If Tiger had done it ten years ago (when he was still TIGER), they would have found a way not to disqualify him and not to penalize him, maybe even penalize YOU for noticing.

Chuck म्हणाले...

Only the New York Times staff would ever think like that.

For devoted observers of professional golf, the standing presumption with Tiger Woods is that with his superstar status, he would get favored treatment. As he seemed to get in a large handful of rules controversies, from the time that a gallery helped roll a boulder out of his way in a desert event, to the time that a retired rules official called in a rules mistake made by Tiger on the 15th hole at the Masters. There are so many occasions on which Tiger Woods has gotten the benefit of the doubt in rules questions, it always causes golf fans to wonder if tournament officials are seeking to help Tiger because he is so good for tv ratings.

(Tiger Woods, incidentally, does not have any sort of reputation as a cheater in golf, if you are not a golf fan like me. Tiger simply draws so much attention, with cameras always following him everywhere, that his rules questions and rulings always draw outsized attention. Tiger may have experimented with performance-enhancing substances -- never any proof of that -- and he certainly was a cheater in his marriage. But with the Rules of Golf, he's clean.)

For me, it is inconceivable that Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus or Bob Jones would ever have pulled the stunt that Mickelson did. The ruling could have gone the other way, and Mickelson could have been DQ'ed. But most golf fans aren't wondering if the ruling would have been different, or differently received, if the subject had been Tiger Woods. No; mostly they are wondering if the ruling would have been different if the subject had been Patrick Reed, or Pat Perez, or Vijay Singh, or a qualifier amateur.

Tank म्हणाले...

Oh shit, I agree with Chuck.

Henry म्हणाले...

Mickelson and Woods are paired like Palmer and Nicklaus. Both are great golfers, but one is a much greater golfer. The other is a likable guy who makes a point of playing to his fans.

Woods would never have done what Mickelson did. If Woods ever went after a ball like that he would have used a driver and killed the hole.

Tank म्हणाले...

In other NYT news, Steve Sailer has a post today about a Times piece noticing that New Yorkers, who are all for diversity, have found a nuanced and complex way to make sure their smart Asian and White kids don't have to go to school with minorities.

Henry म्हणाले...

It's a dead obvious comparison. Tiger - Woods. Palmer - Nicklaus. No one, back in the day, was comparing Palmer to Craig Stadler.

I'm Full of Soup म्हणाले...

Far left libruls are mentally ill.

Henry म्हणाले...

What is weird about Mickelson's response is that if he had said the obvious -- I was frustrated and lost my cool -- it would have been a much better answer than the weird, I did it on purpose, answer he did give.

Henry म्हणाले...

No one believes Mickelson's response. So maybe flipping the script is to say that if Tiger said it, it would be more believable.

Ignorance is Bliss म्हणाले...

what do you think of the "perspective" supposedly to be gained by asking what we'd think if it was Tiger Woods?

He brings up Tiger Woods, expecting us to jump to the racist stereotype that those Asians sure are sneaky.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Mickelson should definitely been DQ-ed. The officials said he did not stop the ball while it was in progress but he clearly impeded its progress by hitting it. It would have rolled a lot further away from the cup.

Disappointed not only in the application of USGA rules but in the course, itself. Many scoffed at the Chambers Bay course in Tacoma at the 2016 US Open but it was in far better condition than Shinnecock Hills was this past weekend. It's not even a pretty course.

Jaq म्हणाले...

Lefty’s own explanation is damning.

stevew म्हणाले...

I've always heard this sort of thing called "a professional foul". You see it in football, basketball, hockey, soccer, and other team sports. Rare to see it in an individual sport, golf even more so.

I'm an amateur golfer and from that vantage point understand all the outrage comes from what is deemed to be Phil's disrespect for the game. Speaking for myself, I find his actions to be practical and clever.

-sw

Browndog म्हणाले...

What is being lost is that Phil almost sunk the running, moving putt.

But Tiger....oh, if Tiger would have done that it would have been nothing but cup! That's the difference...

Bob Boyd म्हणाले...

I believe Mickelson.
His frustration may have made him a little reckless, but watch the video, he almost pulled it off.

Chuck म्हणाले...

mockturtle said...
Mickelson should definitely been DQ-ed. The officials said he did not stop the ball while it was in progress but he clearly impeded its progress by hitting it. It would have rolled a lot further away from the cup.


That is inaccurate. The USGA's ruling turned on its application of a specific rule, which is Rule 14-5. And that rule says that it is a 2-stroke penalty if a stroke is made at a ball while the ball is moving. They applied that rule, which is commonly applied in situations where an awkward or inadvertent double-hit is made, or when a ball rolls after a player addresses it and hits a moving ball.

The USGA applied that rule, because they deemed Mickelson to have been making a stroke. And in fact, Mickelson stopped the ball from rolling off the lightning-quick green by hitting it back toward the hole. Mickelson, per the ruling, made a stroke. He did not block the ball or deflect it, with a club or a foot or a towel or anything else.

So that was the ruling and read textually, it can be seen as a proper ruling.

But critics have said that Mickelson's "stroke" in this case wasn't a real, true, good-faith stroke. Mickelson didn't take a stance. He didn't address the ball. He swatted it, while in a nearly full gallop himself. And so in fact, this was a block of the ball or more exactly a "deflection" which should have invoked Rule 1-2, which prohibits any action (other than a stroke) to influence a ball or the golf course. And there is a catchall rule, 33-7, which prohibits (and also raised the specter of disqualification) if there is a serious breach of etiquette.

Real golf writers have found much to consider; this is a surprisingly hard and nuanced ruling. But no golf writer that I know of has made it a social justice thing with Tiger Woods' name getting dragged into it.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Golf is a game of rules. Unlike in many other sports, skirting the rules, winking at the rules or trying not to get caught breaking the rules is not just frowned upon, it is unacceptable. Phil lost his temper which, in golf, is understandable. But to lie about it is not.

Hagar म्हणाले...

Golf being golf, no other top golfer would have done it. They would know better, even if personally inclined to do it.

For me, it finally explained why I have always had this vague feeling of antipathy for Mickelson.

Henry म्हणाले...

Rick Reilly at The Athletic (paywall) who is in the Mickelson-should-have-been-DQed camp, points out that what Mickelson did wasn't even smart tactics:

If he really didn’t want to continue this “display” he could’ve declared [the ball] unplayable (Rule 28). He could’ve waited until that fifth putt stopped, taken his one-stroke penalty, replaced [the ball at it's previous spot] and tried again. In fact, if Mickelson had done that instead of this Happy Gilmore crap, he’d have been better off. His fifth putt would’ve wound up behind the bunker. He would have taken his penalty, dropped and hit his seventh shot, maybe in the hole: 7 vs. 10.

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

Phil Mickelson is one of the many victims of the FBI's leaking tactic. In order to break a targeted person's recalcitrance in some cases, the FBI leaks to favored journalists the fact that the person is being investigated by the FBI.

Of course, the FBI denies the investigating and the leaking.

This pressure tactic causes the person such problems in his personal, social and economic life that often he submits the the FBI's will.

The FBI used the tactic against Mickelson in an insider-trading case.

This use of this leaking tactic against Mickelson began when the FBI Director was Robert "The FBI Whitewsher" Mueller and continued when the Director was Mueller's BFF "Crazy Comey the Leaker".

[Continued in my next comment]

Chuck म्हणाले...

btw: Bill Pennington is one of the last guys I'd look to, for advanced golf writing. He's a general sports writer. A football/baseball guy, who seems to have been given a golf-column gig at NYT because I presume all of the other NYT sportswriters turned it down before they got to Bill Pennington.

Henry म्हणाले...

@chuck -- Reilly (and others) have pointed out the following: The rule those officials should’ve applied is 33-7, which says that if a player “is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette” he can be DQ’d.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Per Chuck: That is inaccurate. The USGA's ruling turned on its application of a specific rule, which is Rule 14-5. And that rule says that it is a 2-stroke penalty if a stroke is made at a ball while the ball is moving.

This is CBS Sports' view of the matter:

"Rule 1-2 is applied in situations like Mickelson's where a player is purposefully altering a previous shot. But the language in the rule doesn't make room for a player making a stroke on such a shot mostly because nobody within reason would have ever expected this kind of thing to happen. It only states that a player can't deflect or stop a shot, which is basically of what he did. So Mickelson wriggles through a preposterous loophole (not his first or last loophole wriggle!) because he pulled his club back and made a stroke. Maybe I'm wrong, but Rule 14-5 does not appear to have been created for this type of situation. That's why Rule 1-2 exists.

Would you feel differently if Dustin Johnson had picked up his drive on the 3rd hole on Saturday and walked it to within a foot of the cup, set it down and tapped it in? Philosophically speaking, that's what Mickelson did. He gained an advantage by breaking the rules. He admitted he did it on purpose. If you follow Rule 1-2 to its end, the proper punishment is disqualification. It's a clear path to that end."

Original Mike म्हणाले...

”No one believes Mickelson's response.”

I believe it. If doing what he did saves him points, it makes perfect sense.

Chuck म्हणाले...

Henry said...
Rick Reilly at The Athletic (paywall) who is in the Mickelson-should-have-been-DQed camp, points out that what Mickelson did wasn't even smart tactics:

"If he really didn’t want to continue this “display” he could’ve declared [the ball] unplayable (Rule 28). He could’ve waited until that fifth putt stopped, taken his one-stroke penalty, replaced [the ball at it's previous spot] and tried again. In fact, if Mickelson had done that instead of this Happy Gilmore crap, he’d have been better off. His fifth putt would’ve wound up behind the bunker. He would have taken his penalty, dropped and hit his seventh shot, maybe in the hole: 7 vs. 10."


Yes. Good comment. Very true. Although I am someone who wouldn't want to give Rick Reilly much credit for anything, and it should be said that most of the golf world was saying the same thing before Reilly published that column.

Rick Reilly is the person most responsible for the factless myth that Clifford Roberts of the Augusta National Golf Club once upon a time said that, "As long as I am chairman, the golfers will be white and the caddies will be black." It is a quote for which there is no evidence, has never been any evidence, and which everyone who was close to Roberts has said they never once heard him say that, and never heard him say anything like that. For his part, Reilly has never provided a source.

rehajm म्हणाले...

I’ll agree with Chuck today, too and Henry’s explanation exposes Phil’s clever explanation. Phil’s a d**sh...

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

[Continuing my comment at 7:54 AM]

The following passages are from an article titled Problems at the Justice Department and FBI Are Serious, written by Andrew McCarthy and published on the National Review website.

.... David Chaves, an FBI agent ... serially and lawlessly leaked grand-jury information, wiretap evidence, and other sensitive investigative intelligence to the media in his quest to make an insider-trading case against some celebrities. And when finally called on it, the Justice Department circled the wagons ....

In the years after the “Great Recession,” progressives were frustrated by the incapacity of prosecutors .... One response was a flurry of securities-fraud investigations: If you can’t nail the evil banks, at least nail big-time market players, even if less than compelling evidence needs propping up by extravagant legal theories.

Among those who found themselves on the FBI’s radar were three celebrities: investor Carl Icahn, pro golfer Phil Mickelson, and sports gambler Billy Walters. In early 2011, for example, Icahn made a $10.2 billion bid on Clorox Co., triggering what investigators regarded as suspicious stock trading. In particular, they eyed Walters, who was known to talk stocks with Icahn and give investment advice to Mickelson.

But they had nothing, and the investigation stalled. Two years later, the effort was described as “dormant” by David Chaves, the supervising FBI agent for a squad handling big-time insider-trading investigations in Manhattan .... agent Chaves and his subordinates had aggressively used a federal grand jury to investigate ... and had even obtained court orders enabling agents to monitor phone calls .... But it was to no avail. ....

In 2013, Chaves began arranging phone calls, meetings in restaurants, and other modes of communication with reporters for the New York Times and Wall Street Journal. Although federal law criminalizes the disclosure of grand-jury and sealed wiretap information, details of the probe were expansively revealed to the press: the targets of the investigation; the stocks in which they traded and specific transactions that were being scrutinized; the investigative techniques that were being used and that were under consideration; and potential prosecution theories of insider trading.

The FBI’s goal was twofold. First came intelligence-gathering: improper quid pro quo arrangements in which Chaves exchanged details from the government’s investigation for information from the journalists — in essence, trying to turn reporters, who are not subject to FBI guidelines and protocols, into sources.

Second, the Bureau hoped that the pressure generated by media coverage would “tickle the wire.” This is a venerable law-enforcement expression for sudden events that panic conspirators into blurting out incriminating statements on tapped phones.

The public media blitz began in late May 2014, with major stories in the Journal and the Times about how Icahn, Mickelson and Walters were under the federal microscope for a scheme involving Icahn’s investments in Clorox — a scheme for which there was apparently scant evidence and no coherent insider-trading prosecution theory.

No Clorox case was ever brought. In fact, on June 11, a few days after the initial report, the Times conceded that it had been misled by its (unidentified) law-enforcement source and that the FBI, in fact, had no evidence that Mickelson had traded Clorox stock ...

Chuck म्हणाले...

Henry: Yes, I understand the application of 33-7, and I said so earlier.

mockturtle: I sort of agree with as much of that quote from CBSSports.com as I understand, but it is a lot of gibberish mostly. I don't think they are contradicting anything I wrote. Their comparison hypothetical is as inapposite as it is preposterous.

For the record, I have leaned toward favoring a DQ for Mickelson. But I have enormous respect for the USGA, and I think that they have made a technically correct, or at least technically defensible, ruling. The more you know, the harder this ruling gets.

ANoKneedMouse म्हणाले...

Has anyone asked John Daly?

David Blaska म्हणाले...

One more reason to love Phil. Like his playing partner said, it's what your mates do on the weekend muni course.

rehajm म्हणाले...

...and re: Ann’s her use of golfing as a verb. Grammatically correct but id’s you immediately as a non golfer. Golfers use play as the verb when speaking about golf.

Unless you’re a golfing troll.

Etienne म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Chuck म्हणाले...

Mike Sylvester: You didn't mention the part about the Dean Foods stock. Where Walters was convicted of an insider trading charge for profits of almost $2 million, and where Mickelson, who was never charged but said that he'd plead the Fifth in connection with any testimony, made $1 million and eventually paid back all of that to the SEC in a civil settlement agreement.

Mike Sylwester म्हणाले...

Chuck at 8:16 AM
You didn't mention the part about the Dean Foods stock. Where Walters was convicted of an insider trading charge for profits of almost $2 million, and where Mickelson, who was never charged but said that he'd plead the Fifth in connection with any testimony, made $1 million and eventually paid back all of that to the SEC in a civil settlement agreement.

The FBI's later success in this case shows that its pressure tactic of leaking against recalcitrant subjects works effectively.

That's why the FBI used the tactic routinely while the FBI Directors were Robert "The FBI Whitewasher" Mueller and his BFF "Crazy Comey the Leaker".

The success of this leaking tactic in this case also explains why this case's primary leaker David Chaves has not been disciplined by the FBI.

Chuck म्हणाले...

smartin357m said...
Has anyone asked John Daly?


Didn't Daly get essentially the same ruling at Pinehurst #2 in the 1999 US Open?

https://www.espn.com/golfonline/usopen99/news/1999/990620/00001467.html

They are both infamous events. Mickelson's actions were arguably more like a "stroke," for application of Rule 14-5, than Daly's, or Kirk Triplett's at the Open at Olympic Club.

gg6 म्हणाले...

Re the NYTimes, I vote for 'striking rather than stopping or deflecting them'.

Roy Lofquist म्हणाले...

"Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course... the space between your ears." ~ Bobby Jones

He made the right move. The ball was clearly headed for the corner of the sand trap and most likely would end up under the lip where, being left handed, he probably couldn't even get a club on the ball. That means he would have to take an unplayable lie, dropping the ball in the trap and taking a one stroke penalty. From that position and given the speed of the green he'd be lucky to get it within 15 feet of the hole.

"You drive for show, but putt for dough." ~ Arthur D'Arcy "Bobby" Locke

Very few golfers have ever tried to putt on greens as fast as the those at this year's open. It is a humbling experience. Someone once asked Arnold Palmer how he ended up taking an 11 on a hole in the US Open at Olympic. He answered "I missed a 20 footer for a 10".

BamaBadgOR म्हणाले...

From a former amateur tournament player, Mickelson should have been DQ'ed. The USGA's contrary ruling is myopic.

Henry म्हणाले...

@Roy Lofquist --If he took the unplayable ball penalty he would have dropped at the ball's last position -- back on the green.

Wince म्हणाले...

If it were Hillary Clinton, she would have gotten away with it because Comey’s FBI wouldn’t see any “intent” to hit the ball a second time.

Christopher म्हणाले...

Quite aside from what you think about that bizarre golfing, what do you think of the "perspective" supposedly to be gained by asking what we'd think if it was Tiger Woods? Is that supposed to be some sort of racial analysis, like that if you believe Phil Mickelson, you're a carrier of the infection of white privilege?

It's not a racial reference, and I guess you don't follow golf closely. First of all there's a long Tiger-Phil rivalry, even if practically speaking most of that rivalry was in Phil's head. Second, especially in his day, Tiger could get away with things that mortals could not, though his extreme pushing of the envelope was almost always arguably within the rules. In one famous incident, his ball was blocked by a large boulder, and he recruited folks in the gallery to help him move it. This, he maintained, fell under the moveable obstruction rule, which, outside of a hazard, you can do if it's not touching and doesn't move the ball. This literally may have never occurred to a tournament golfer before and certainly hadn't ever taken place, but the rules officials allowed it.

That's the kind of thing that line referred to, and also to fan and pundit reaction. What Tiger would do was seen as crafty, shrewd and evidence of his fierce commitment to winning. If someone else did it, WTF.

Phil should have been DQ'd if for no other reason than his acting like a jackass.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"The success of this leaking tactic in this case also explains why this case's primary leaker David Chaves has not been disciplined by the FBI."

Slightly OT, apologies, but how many FBI agents have been disciplined for for leaking?

McCabe for lying about leaking, OK. Who else? How much punishment did they get? Or do we in fact have a culture of impunity, at least since Mueller?

mccullough म्हणाले...

Tiger Woods won three US Opens. Michelson has zero. He’s finished second a number of times. He’s won the other three major tournaments but has chocked at the US Open a number of times.

Phil is a feckless cunt. A total whiner and phony. His display on Saturday was a tantrum. He knows he will never win the US Open. He is a fucking loser and cheater.

Tiger Woods has 14 majors to Phil’s 5. He’s won 79 PGA tournaments. He isn’t a pussy like Phil. He would never pull the bulkshit Phony Phil did. Never.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Tiger Woods is hardly the first [half] black champion on the tour although probably the best. Race is simply not a factor on the tour and only nitwit 'journalists' would make an issue of it.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

And race-obsessed bloggers. ;-)

Paul From Minneapolis म्हणाले...

I follow golf and read that column earlier. I was and still am baffled by what he meant by bringing up Tiger "for perspective." But I don't think it has anything to do with race. There might be a couple dozen golf fans out there who view Tiger through some kind of racial lens, but it's just simply not part of how the media frames the Tiger story.

Rick म्हणाले...

You should consider whether the Tiger reference works the other way. Early in his career Tiger's ball was bloacked behind a several hundred pound boulder. A group of fans jumped out of the crowd to move it on their own initiative while tiger watched. The relevant rule refers to "movable objects" which was clearly not meant to cover this - but by definition if they could move it the boulder was movable.

There was a lot of talk about how this was wrong and Tiger watching without interfering showed his professionalism was not as great as it should be. As far as I can tell it has made exactly zero difference in how he's thought of. Like Tiger's Mickelson's act will be thought of as amusing trivia but little else.

Paul From Minneapolis म्हणाले...

(Except in a very general sense of explaining why he widened the popularity of the game so much.)

Bill Peschel म्हणाले...

Paul from Minneapolis wrote: "I follow golf and read that column earlier. I was and still am baffled by what he meant by bringing up Tiger "for perspective." But I don't think it has anything to do with race."

Which leads me to conclude that the NYT writer was either incompetent in not laying out the context for his remark, or that he did want to write about race and decided not to do so.

Incompetent or manipulative?

Howard म्हणाले...

I like how Ann is using examples of made up racism by the fake failing MSM to make her deplorable Amazon patrons feel more comfortable with their own real winning racism.

Roy Lofquist म्हणाले...


Blogger Henry said...

@Roy Lofquist --If he took the unplayable ball penalty he would have dropped at the ball's last position -- back on the green.

Yup, you're correct. Means I've been wrong for the last 50 years or so. No surprise, that.

Henry म्हणाले...

@Roy -- Well I just learned that rule yesterday, so there you go.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

I didn't know about the disqualification in the rule not enforced- that is new information to me. Of course, that is a tournament rule and not a rule of golf itself- it the rule of golf that was enforced.

Given the tournament rule, Mickelson should have been disqualified. I asked the question yesterday in a thread what other golfers thought of Mickelson taking advantage of the rule. Given he missed the put coming back, I doubt the two stroke penalty was worth it in the end (where his ball going would have been a difficult make in 3 more strokes with a lot of chances of 4 or more), but the issue of ethics was on my mind. Taking advantage of the rules in a technical fashion isn't always acceptable- there is etiquette that still matters. I personally think he made a mistake in this regard- I think his fellow competitors think less of him for doing this, but that is just my opinion.

Pianoman म्हणाले...

It's not about race as much as it's about The Tiger Woods Effect: If Tiger is in contention for a title -- especially a major -- the ratings for Sunday double. So the networks are just doing what you'd expect, which is slobbering all over everything Tiger does.

He didn't even make the cut for this tournament, and they're still asking the question "What would Tiger do?" Do they ask that question of any of the other pros that missed the cut? No, of course not. He can be down by double digits on a Thursday, and they'll still be bowing and scraping to him on Friday.

It's sort of the Lebron Effect: The actual winner is secondary to the PR value of one of the players. For the NBA championship this year, all anyone could talk about is who Lebron would be playing for next year. Nobody seemed to care that the Warriors swept the Cavaliers in 4. Yawn yawn, who cares -- what REALLY matters is where Lebron will go next year, and what Tiger's opinion is of a 2-stroke penalty.

Tiger is a mediocre pro right now, but the networks refuse to acknowledge it.

Yancey Ward म्हणाले...

I don't know if Mickelson had time to think about declaring the ball unplayable and dropping, but I don't really think this was an option- don't you have to have the tournament judges agree with you on declaring an unplayable ball? A ball down behind a bunker isn't really unplayable- just difficult to get near the hole.

Jim at म्हणाले...

Disappointed not only in the application of USGA rules but in the course, itself. Many scoffed at the Chambers Bay course in Tacoma at the 2016 US Open but it was in far better condition than Shinnecock Hills was this past weekend. It's not even a pretty course.

Chambers Bay was 2015. Was there each day.

The course wasn't as much of a problem as the two, different types of grass on the green ... bent and Poa. One was laying down at the end of the day while the other (Poa) was growing. They're letting the Poa take over and everything will be fine when they come back.

And I don't understand the complaints about the course. They're all golfing the same course. If it's tougher because of weather conditions - like wind - take it up with God.

Jim at म्हणाले...

And while I like Phil, he should've been DQ'd.

That was a John Daly move. Not worthy of a Hall of Famer like Phil.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Well, Pianoman, Rory McElroy and Jordan Spieth, two favorites to win, also missed the cut.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

And I don't understand the complaints about the course.

Regarding Shinnecock, I think most of the complaints regarded pin placement on some of the holes. A really great approach shot shouldn't be penalized.

Looking forward to The [British] Open, my favorite.

Jim at म्हणाले...

Tiger is a mediocre pro right now, but the networks refuse to acknowledge it.

Not just the networks. The entire sports media. Five stories about Tiger on the front page of Yahoo! Sports. A Tiger Tracker for his every move. It's beyond parody at this point.

If Tiger's playing on Sunday and Gary McCord is broadcasting? I'm watching the paint dry on the rocks in my yard.

Jim at म्हणाले...

I think most of the complaints regarded pin placement on some of the holes. A really great approach shot shouldn't be penalized.

Yeah. I heard that, too. On a couple holes. Specific criticism is one thing. Saying they 'lost the course' is whining.

And let's not forget #7 at Shinnecock back in 2004.

Thing is, it's the US Open. It's supposed to be close to par. If there weren't whining golfers, it wouldn't be the US Open.

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Regarding the broadcast: It's bad enough we have to endure Joe Buck at the World Series. This is the first time I've had to endure him during a golf tournament. And I hope it's the last. He's almost as annoying as Howard Cosell.

readering म्हणाले...

To me, what PM did is only understandable as spur-of-the-moment frustration, and somewhat amusing given the general conditions of the day. If it was premeditated then he should be disqualified even if he didn't have the applicable rule for DQ in mind. Glad to hear he offered to Mike Davis to withdraw Saturday evening and was told not necessary.

Jim at म्हणाले...

This is the first time I've had to endure him (Joe Buck) during a golf tournament.

Well, 2015 at Chambers Bay was the first year of FOX Sports (and Joe Buck) covering USGA events. It's a 12-year deal.

Paul From Minneapolis म्हणाले...

Howard said...

"I like how Ann is using examples of made up racism by the fake failing MSM to make her deplorable Amazon patrons feel more comfortable with their own real winning racism."

I don't know if you're deplorable, but your unwillingness to actually read a discussion, perceive the general disagreement with Ann's race point, and eagerness to throw out words like "deplorable" to describe a group of people you completely misunderstand kind of tend in that direction.

PackerBronco म्हणाले...

Phil ran after that ball like he was running after the last slice of pizza supreme on the buffet table at Pizza Ranch.

Tiger would never have done it.

Instead, he would have let out such a long string of cuss words, the ball would have stopped dead in embarrassment.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Trade Joe Buck for the $$$ on a one year rental and an announcer to be named later.

Hang the franchise tag on Holly Saunders.

rehajm म्हणाले...

Tiger is a godsend for everyone who makes their living off of golf. Ratings, merchandise, everything. Ticket sales are 25% higher when he’s in the field.

Roy Lofquist म्हणाले...

"don't you have to have the tournament judges agree with you on declaring an unplayable ball? A ball down behind a bunker isn't really unplayable- just difficult to get near the hole."

The decision lies solely with the golfer. Any ball can be declared unplayable unless it is in a water hazard.

southcentralpa म्हणाले...

Tiger Woods is a famous golfer. Phil Mickelson is a famous golfer. End o' story...

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Tiger is a godsend for everyone who makes their living off of golf. Ratings, merchandise, everything. Ticket sales are 25% higher when he’s in the field.

Tiger evokes an air of excited expectation much as Palmer and Nikalaus [and sometimes Tom Watson] did. Even if he's no longer a top golfer the aura is still there. With Niklaus, you could never count him out and when he was on a roll, watch out. Good times.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Asking if Tiger would be treated the same as Phil is like asking if LeBron and Kevin Love (or Jordan and Jeff Hornececk for the old timers) would be treated the same by NBA. The question answers itself.

Its hilarious how the dumbo sports writers have always tried to paint Tiger as a "Black man in a white man's sport".

Tiger is half-Asian and his father is mixture of Indian, Black, and Chinese. His father grew up in Kansas and was a Col in the special forces. Tiger grew in SoCal when it was still mostly white, and went to Stanford. He's a Buddhist - his ex-wife was Swedish. He's neither culturally, nor racially "Black"

PGA Golfer V.J. Singh is from Fiji and has skin 2x darker then Tiger. No one has asked if he's been racially discriminated against.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Phil has always been a knucklehead. Look at what he's done in the US Open. He could've won twice if he'd just played the last couple holes with an ounce of intelligence.

But this whole controversy is BS. Why should Phil have been DQ'ed? He was way back in the pack on Saturday and going backwards. His chance of winning = 0. His "Brilliant strategy" resulted in a "10" on a Par 4 hole. If he'd let the ball run off the green, chipped back on and 3-putted, he would've gotten....a ten.

For some reason the sportswriters are constantly attacking the USGA. No doubt because they think its "Conservative" with too many "white men". Put a liberal in charge of the USGA or maybe a Jewish, Black, Lesbian and they'd let up.

rcocean म्हणाले...

I thought Shinnacock Hills was great. The Pros cry and moan, yet look at the leader-board. The Masters winner, a couple of former US open Champs, and the best player on the European tour battling for the trophy.

The course put a premium on chipping and precise iron play. It wasn't the usual, "who can make the most 10 foot putts"?

Chambers Bay got a bad rap too. It was an exciting tournament that ended with Jordan Speith winning. Not bad.


traditionalguy म्हणाले...

Give Phil a break. He out thinks things. Mere Golf is too slow for him.

Guildofcannonballs म्हणाले...

Bitches better toughen up.

Doug म्हणाले...

If Tiger had done it ten years ago (when he was still TIGER), they would have found a way not to disqualify him and not to penalize him, maybe even penalize YOU for noticing.

Was it ten years ago that Tiger took that illegal drop at the 15th at Augusta, and no one said boo to him?

Lucien म्हणाले...

As they said in the great US Open book, “Massacre at Winged Foot,” the USGA isn’t trying to humiliate the best golfers in the world, it’s trying to identify them. Everyone has to play the same course, so everyone has to deal with the same shit. Scoring 3 or 4 over par on a certain hole might not be a disaster - it might actually put you ahead of the field.

One of Tiger’s great skills was that he could be in the midst of the shit and be angry like all the other players, but keep his emotions from interfering with his game. Phil never got there, I guess.

Someone upthread mentioned that “great approach shots shouldn’t be punished.” Regardless of how good it might have looked at the driving range, if it leaves you in a bad position, it wasn’t a great approach shot...

mockturtle म्हणाले...

Lucien, if you pitch a shot onto the green that lands a foot from the pin and slowly rolls off the green, onto the apron and into the rough it might still have been a great shot, just not great results.