If stars like (don’t laugh) Tom Brady locked arms, stood up to this cabal of billionaire bullies, and refused to let the NFL get away with this profit-guarding nonsense, it would end quickly. Maybe then the NFL would grudgingly come to accept that its plummeting TV ratings had far more to do with an overexposed, subpar product and cord-cutting than any (false) question of a political backlash, and more to the point, that the backlash is never going away, regardless of what they do.I suspect that they know it but don't want to use it. What do you think?
The players have all the power here. The twofold question is: Do they know it, and will they use it?
२४ मे, २०१८
"The NFL’s New Anthem Policy Is Madness... an obvious capitulation to red America, its president, and the league’s most conservative owners."
"The players have the power to stop it, if they dare," writes Robert Silverman at The Daily Beast.
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354 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»I'm switching to soccer. JPG
Now I'm a Jets fan.
Isn’t today Bob Dylan’s birthday? 77.
I think the players play for paychecks.
I’m thinking as soon as they lose a paycheck they will rethink it. I also really loved the replacement players. Bring them back.
Yeah, how dare these billionaires bully these millionaires at the behest of a bunch of deplorable thousandaires!
Wait..who are the bullies?
It's time the NFL started firing people who bring politics onto the field.
I get plenty of politics in my life. I used to watch football for football.
Now I'm just disgusted with all this political crud.
Let's beat our Lefties into plowshares.
You have a job, you gotta play by the boss's rules. And it's pretty moronic to shit on the game by alienating half your fanbase. But whatever.
If the players really believed in their protest, they'd offer to take the same percentage loss in the their paychecks as the owners lose. That would be the socialist thing to do.
Here's the thing. What the players want, as represented by their union and codified into the current collective bargaining agreement is increased safety and more money. The pipe fitters and coal miners of red America can identify.
The NFL's New Anthem Policy is trivial.
Heh - these overpaid Neanderthals must now kneel before Trump!
But I still love football - high school and college ranks best.
The players are the ones with the power? Is that why they've lost virtually every time they tried going on strike? If the players cannot stick together long enough to win a strike over pay and safety issues, there is no way they will stick together over a this issue.
The NFL Player's Association has observed that the negative reaction of the fans to the player protests has resulted in falling league revenue. They will soon be negotiating a new contract with the owners. Falling league revenues means less money for the players under the new contract. It is in the interest of the rank and file players to accede to the new league rule. The stars will not be so much affected but will be pressured to stand with the rank and file and obey the new rule.
Dave Begley said...Isn’t today Bob Dylan’s birthday? 77.
--
Mighty as he is, football playing is for the under 60 crowd.
Silverman seems confused about what the NFL's actual product is. When he writes "overexposed, subpar product," he is insulting the players.
...and refused to let the NFL get away with this profit-guarding nonsense...
Wait, I'm confused. I don't give a rat's about sportsball, but I was under the impression that the NFL was a business. It's a non-profit? Some kind of employee-owned co-op? What am I missing here?
One man's capitulation is another man's empathy. Maybe not displaying animosity towards those who pay to watch you play isn't "madness". Would it be madness for a restaurant to forbid staff from writing nasty statements about customers on their receipts? Would it be OK to have Starbucks allow their staff to make condescending remarks about conservatives to every customer who picks up a cup of coffee.
Even an atheist doesn't jump up and down screaming during a moment of silence or prayer.
Why would any business allow its contract employees act in a manner that pisses off 1/3 to 1/2 or their customer base? And especially since these red America scum make up a disproportionate percentage of NFL fans. Progressive pajama boy and SWJ's tend to not as avid football fans that red America.
Once again, the left shows no concept of the laws of economics. The players do not have all the power. The consumer has the power.
What do I think? I think you have to be pretty brain-dead as a player not to realize that if no one is watching you play, the owners won’t make enough to pay you to play, either.
How dare the NFL give in to their fans instead of social justice warriors who will hate them either way? How dare they want to turn a profit on their business?
These questions demand answers!
Every player, including Tom Brady, is replaceable.
Robert Silverman, lefty, is courageously willing to risk and potentially sacrifice the investments of others to teach those Trump voters a lesson.
I did not see that coming....
The NFL players are paid based on a salary cap that rises and falls with league revenue.
Fans left the NFL in droves last year.
There are a few selfish millionaire players that hate our country and don't mind ruining things for everyone else. But they, like the leftists generally, are a small part of the whole.
Expect massive pressure from the media with fawning coverage of the bad apples.
Also expect massive uncovered pressure internally from the majority of players to the ingrates to stop shitting in the bed they all sleep in.
The Left are the puritanical scolds and fun ruiners of our time. If people are having a good time when they're not, they have to ruin it. And the best way to destroy an enjoyable, relaxing activity (like watching a sport) is to inject politics into it.
All I want to know is whether or not homeless people will be allowed into the stadiums to use the restrooms and lounge about without having to buy anything? Including the skyboxes....
If stars like (don’t laugh) Tom Brady locked arms ...
I interpret this to mean that in Silverman’s eyes and the eyes of his readers, Tom Brady is not a star in the NFL. Can someone provide me with an alternative explanation?
I think it would be great if the players could be given the chance to deliver SJW speeches during half time, explain their beefs. It would be way more entertaining than marching bands.
Something tells me this Silverman fella doesn’t have the best interests of the NFL in mind.
Didn't watch a game last year, and won't watch this year.
Too late, I'm gone.
let the NFL get away with this profit-guarding nonsense, it would end quickly.
And for what reason does Mr. Silverman think that the players get on the field & wallop the shit out of each other except for profit?
The players & their agents can see the handwriting on the wall. The next time that the television rights are going to be auctioned off, the NFL isn't going to pull down the bucks they did in the past. The numbers just aren't there anymore. Too many eyeballs watching other media sources, & too many eyeballs entertaining themselves in different ways. The NFL has probably passed peak profitability as an enterprise.
The players know that if they try to push the NFL on this issue of on-field Social Justice Warrioring, they will be blamed for any future hits in profits. Their cases are weak & getting weaker, & they know it. Social Justice is great for the other guy, but without them big bucks rolling in, the players know that the fast cars, faster women, big houses, & parties with the stars all goes away.
Drago,
I heard a common-tater mention that the number of street dwelling homeless in L.A. could fill a stadium.
Problem solved.
If Silverman doesn't believe/concede that a good chunk (even if say 30-40%, and not a majority) of the falloff in viewership was caused by the virtue-signalling by the non-virtuous then he is an ignoramus. Also anti-science and fake news, etc., etc.
Big Mike,
The “don’t laugh” is that Brady would never be that courageous, in Silvermans view, to do such a thing. He is definitely a star and Silverman would love to coopt him into that SJW space.
""The NFL’s New Anthem Policy Is Madness... an obvious capitulation to red America, its president, and the league’s most conservative owners."
A capitulation to 'red America' and "its president"?
Is the NFL in collusion with this 'red America'?
Sounds like the President of 'red America' needs to be investigated.
I'm sure the FBI of 'blue America' will be right on it.
-LWL
Imagine the United Mine Workers strike 1902:
"You want a shorter work week, more money, and higher safety standards?"
"No sir. We want to speak out against systemic racism and the state-sanctioned violence perpetrated by law enforcement."
@BarrySanders & Big Mike -- the "don't laugh" is that Brady is known as a Trump supporter.
No chance Tom Brady knows who Robert Silverman is. Less than no chance he would alter his behavior because of Robert Silverman.
@Henry, much obliged.
The players have all the power here.
Actually, no they don't. The difference between cut towards the end of training camp and starter isn't really all that much for most positions on most teams.
I watch football to relax and get away from politics.
If an NFL employee (whose salary I indirectly pay) wants to protest, do so on your own time. If you do it on my time, I will stop watching the game. You will make less money.
I wonder if any of the NFL protesters can offer a cogent explanation of exactly why and what they are protesting and what they hope to accomplish. I suspect their answers would be near the level of Ritmo, ARM and Inga.
Sorry. I am getting crankier in my old age when it comes to stupid people.
Oh, the madness of standing for the national anthem. Jeez, lefties really do hate their country.
Silverman sounds like an agent. Sorry, but the players need the NFL more than the NFL needs the players. Players can be replaced and the sport would still be played.
I watch football to relax and get away from politics.
If an NFL employee (whose salary I indirectly pay) wants to protest, do so on your own time. If you do it on my time, I will stop watching the game. You will make less money.
I wonder if any of the NFL protesters can offer a cogent explanation of exactly why and what they are protesting and what they hope to accomplish. I suspect their answers would be near the level of Ritmo, ARM and Inga.
Sorry. I am getting crankier in my old age when it comes to stupid people.
Sure, if you got Tom Brady and his ilk to stand by the protesting players, they might have a chance. But not all of the players are brain dead, and many realize that the Red America that Silverman wants them to ignore funds much of their salaries. How much of their salaries are they willing to sacrifice for the ability to virtue signal? No one should be surprised if the owners try to cut salaries by at least the 10% of attendance they lost last year as a result of the protests. Probably won't work, of course, since salaries are notoriously sticky in a downward direction. Still, it probably means no more money for the players, and the ones who will be hurt the most are the superstars living in Blue States, thanks to the limitation on the deductiblity of state and local taxes under the new tax law.
I can't lose. If the players comply with the new rule, NFL football will take a step back to being just sports. If the players don't comply, it'll help Trump. A lot. And I'll just watch the Packers.
Full disclosure: I think the world would be better off without any football in it.
So I hope the players do just what he says. I hope they mouth off about “red state America”. I hope they fart during the anthem and dance on the flag.
I expand on a point by buwaya, here http://kenblogic.blogspot.com/2017/09/tribal-witlessness.html
"Maybe then the NFL would grudgingly come to accept that its plummeting TV ratings had far more to do with an overexposed, subpar product and cord-cutting than any (false) question of a political backlash,..."
And other than parenthetically writing the word "false," Silverman knows this how? BTW, the players are the product, or at least the biggest part of it. Does he realize that he just admitted that the players are the problem?
"... and more to the point, that the backlash is never going away, regardless of what they do."
Exactly. So what specifically, other than the grandstanding signalling itself, do the players want to have happen? This seems at best vague to nonexistent. Endless protest is not a program.
Have you ever had the feeling that a large contingent of NFL players are at the bottom of the IQ curve.
Wrong...the players do not have all the power. The viewers and the fans have almost all the power. Without them, the league will go back to being a bunch of club teams with rosters of men that have full-time jobs elsewhere.
This protesting the flag...and America....is misplaced. America is not racist. America does not profile blacks. Or commit brutality. Or any of the other things they want to protest. America is the best place on earth for people of color.
AllenS said...
Have you ever had the feeling that a large contingent of NFL players are at the bottom of the IQ curve.
Even if they didn't start there the brain trauma means they will end up there.
NFL, like any other business, wants a profit. If there is no profit... there will be no NFL, and thus no football players. Then they will have to find a real job of some sort cause they are not mental giants.
an obvious compitulation to red American and it's president
Am I the only one getting tired of all this winning?
The players have all the power here. The twofold question is: Do they know it, and will they use it? I suspect that they know it but don't want to use it. What do you think?
The problem from the start for the protesting players is this: when can the protest end?
Obvious answer given the SJW politics behind this amorphous "movement" -- NEVER!
When and under what conditions would it be acceptable for them to publicly say "problem solved, no more need to protest"?
For such a high visibility protest movement connected to mass entertainment to not wear out its welcome or create mass fatigue, there has to be an actual END GAME.
The owners here are actually providing the players with an escape hatch here, which will allow them to extricate themselves gracefully and sanctimoniously.
Bill, Republic of Texas said...
Am I the only one getting tired of all this winning?
You and Kim Jong-un.
“These owners don’t love America more than the players demonstrating and taking real action to improve it,”
It's an active fantasy life where kneeling at one's workplace is considered "real action" to improve America. What a pack of idiots.
This Silverman guy is not too smart. Just because this is in the news -- and because he gets paid to write about the news -- doesn't mean he shouldn't use some basic awareness about how pro football works to come up with an idea.
Big Mike said...
If stars like (don’t laugh) Tom Brady locked arms ...
I interpret this to mean that in Silverman’s eyes and the eyes of his readers, Tom Brady is not a star in the NFL. Can someone provide me with an alternative explanation?
He knows that Brady is a Trump supporter.
He knows that most people are but they don't want to deal with Silverman and the rest of the press maligning them constantly.
He also sees that this entire issue is a threat to the power the SJW's and the press wield because people are starting to turn on them.
The Daily Beast watches football? The new NFL policy is now similar to the NBA's. Except the NFL added some if-you-don't threats which, if you've ever raised teenagers, has the opposite effect.
"But they, like the leftists generally, are a small part of the whole."
But a big part of the hole.
Side question: Why isn't Colin Kaepernick playing for the Jets?
That said, all of these diversionary tactics worked, if in a deeply cynical way. Any real discussion of police brutality has been more or less elbowed out of the public domain,
Yep. That's what happens when you grandstand instead of addressing the issue. If you were interested in improving the the issue instead of creating new conflict you can exploit politically you wouldn't have taken an action with this 100% predictable result and then complained about the outcome.
You and Kim Jong-un.
Agreed. I'm not shitting my pants in some bunker and thinking I'm tired of all the winning.
The NFL is not viable without consumer interest.
ARM: "You and Kim Jong-un."
LOL
ARM thinks KJU has "won".
I'm beginning to understand why dems think supporting MS13 and Hamas are winning issues....
I love it when the left holds a gun to its own head and warns me to not come any closer.
Perhaps the dems could hire Kathy Griffin to star in some 2018 Dem Pro-MS13 commercials.
There would be a certain decapitation fantasy fulfillment consistency with that sort of hiring policy...
The players have all the power here.
They sure do.
The twofold question is: Do they know it, and will they use it?
If they do, they'll kill the golden goose.
Jim at: "I love it when the left holds a gun to its own head and warns me to not come any closer."
I miss Cleavon Little.
It would require an incredible and unprecedented act of solidarity, but if every single NFL player came out and took a knee and made it clear they would not stop, fines and possible suspensions notwithstanding, what recourse would be available to Goodell and the owners?
"If only everyone agreed with me we wouldn't have all this divisiveness".
"It's time the NFL started firing people who bring politics onto the field.
"I get plenty of politics in my life. I used to watch football for football."
Well...then they should stop playing the National Anthem at sporting events. That makes it political. Why should a sporting event start with the National Anthem?
It's the future players & coaches who have the most to lose, and they don't have a say in it now.
How would cord-cutting equal a decline in viewership? Cord-cutting is mostly just changing the way you get television - online instead of through cable - it isn't doing away with watching the programs entirely.
"Robert Cook said...
"It's time the NFL started firing people who bring politics onto the field.
"I get plenty of politics in my life. I used to watch football for football."
Well...then they should stop playing the National Anthem at sporting events. That makes it political."
How does that make it political. What a moronic belief. Are you a moron?
The National Anthem is like the Queen, above politics. O Patria Mio.
Why should a sporting event start with the National Anthem?
Because "Hey assholes...sit down, the game is about to start" is a little rude.
And forcing players to stand or otherwise show deference to the nation while the Anthem is playing is also political, and offensive. Why should a player who doesn't feel a sincere desire to stand for the anthem be forced to pretend? What's the purpose? If we know that many of the players are showing deference to the anthem only because they're being forced to, what value does it have? Presumably, one stands for the anthem to demonstrate one's sincere feelings for it and for the nation. If one doesn't feel that way and is forced to comply, the result is simply a fraud, a propaganda spectacle. How is that any better than in any more dictatorial regimes where all are required to salute or bow (and scrape) before the "great leader?"
Well, of course the players have the power. Just as the fine union folk at Hostess had the power. Unfortunately, they are now the unemployed fine union folk.
I might add the slick part of Silverman's tack is prying the issue away from race/police and making it about resistence to Trump - something chewy and bite-sized for those who wouldn't know a slot receiver from a DB.
You've got to hand it to them. They've actually fucked up standing.
"'Why should a sporting event start with the National Anthem?'
"Because 'Hey assholes...sit down, the game is about to start' is a little rude."
Better idea: start all sporting events with Queens' "We Will Rock You."
Curious George
Cookie is tuned in, he gets it. Fireworks and the anthem on Memorial Day are political too. And silence won’t help. In Canada we have two minutes silence on Remembrance Day. Way political.
And forcing players to stand or otherwise show deference to the nation while the Anthem is playing is also political, and offensive.
No it's simply good manners. And if the players don't want to be polite and respectful, they can stay in the locker room until the anthem is over.
Why should a player who doesn't feel a sincere desire to stand for the anthem be forced to pretend? What's the purpose?
Politeness and respect for the anthem, and more importantly for them, the paying customers.
"How does that make it political."
Really?
Cookie is confused. No one is being forced to show respect. They are being prohibited from showing disrespect. If they want they can stay inside during the anthem. What they are being told is that they cannot fuck up their employers product by being rude to fans.
Robert Cook: "And forcing players to stand or otherwise show deference to the nation while the Anthem is playing is also political, and offensive."
Why you can almost hear the overseer cracking his whip and yelling "ya'll best stand on your feet, and make sure you call your agent Murray. I hear tell there's a possible commercial in works for you to augment your millions...."
Brutal.
Bru---Tal.
Does Silverman offer any evidence to his assertion that the decline in viewership has nothing to do with the politicization of the Anthem? Or are we just supposed to accept his word? (Because I do not believe him)
"How does that make it political."
Remember, as far as the Left is concerned, everything is political.
"No it's simply good manners. And if the players don't want to be polite and respectful, they can stay in the locker room until the anthem is over."
Really? We have to care about the tender feelings of people who want to stand for the anthem and want everyone else to stand, too? Why should they care? Why should their feelings take precedence over the feelings of those who feel differently?
It's all simply indoctrination.
MadisonMan: "Does Silverman offer any evidence to his assertion that the decline in viewership has nothing to do with the politicization of the Anthem?"
Leftists possess only Received Wisdom upon which there can be no disagreement.
Millionaires arise! Throw off your chains!
It's outrageous that billionaires are oppressing millionaires!
Last I heard, it was the National Football League.
Do they have an anti-trust exemption like MLB?
Blogger Robert Cook said...
And forcing players to stand or otherwise show deference to the nation while the Anthem is playing is also political, and offensive.
Bake the fucking cake, asshole.
Really? We have to care about the tender feelings of people who want to stand for the anthem and want everyone else to stand, too? Why should they care? Why should their feelings take precedence over the feelings of those who feel differently?
Because otherwise the customers stopping coming and a bunch of semi-literate jocks lose their million dollar contracts.
"No one is being forced to show respect. They are being prohibited from showing disrespect."
They are being prohibited from showing their discontent over serious social problems in the country. If America's freedoms mean anything at all, it means we have the right to show our discontent.
It’s admirable the players care. They should stick to their beliefs. No one is forcing them to play in the NFL. They should quit and work tirelessly in their communities.
"Because otherwise the customers stopping coming and a bunch of semi-literate jocks lose their million dollar contracts."
Would that many people really stop attending or watching games because of a few players's actions?
The ability of these people to deny that the protests have turned off millions of viewers appears to be limitless.
I don't mind. This is how we got Trump. This is how we'll get MORE Trump.
Priceless.
I don't have time to read 88 comments so I apologize if anybody else has made what seems to be the obvious point which is the players really don't have that power in any meaningful sense. That's what the union is for. Deal with it during the CBA negotiations in two years. Hit 'em with concussions, the Anthem, whatever you want. If you're really concerned about leverage against ownership for things like retirement funds, staying with a 16-game schedule, not letting the league schedule football every night of the week, etc. you have to use everything at your disposal. Be smart. If it's worth fighting for, fight it when it counts.
Would that many people really stop attending or watching games because of a few players's actions?
Check the attendance numbers.
Because the last 2 words of the National Anthem are Play Ball, cookie.
Cookie prefers "Slav'sya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye." but those good times ended in 1991.
The CTE is a consequence of the huge size of players the past 40 years. You could have a weight limit like jockeys.
The test will come when a few black angry SJW wannabes challenge the league. I expect it.
Will the league, and especially the pussy Goodell, fold or stay strong?
Pete Rozelle would have.
Does Silverman offer any evidence to his assertion that the decline in viewership has nothing to do with the politicization of the Anthem?
Actually, evidence of the opposite is available. I've seen several surveys and results as high as 40 percent say they've watched less NFL over the last two seasons precisely because of the protests.
>>Then they will have to find a real job of some sort
I remember when Topps Football cards had the player's "off season job" printed on the back, because football didn't pay enough to support a guy all year long.
For example, the placekicker for the 70's Vikings was a dentist...
If America's freedoms mean anything at all, it means we have the right to show our discontent.
Not at work on the bosses' dime.
IMHO, NFL salaries are a bubble which will burst. TV revenue creates the $100M contract and $100B stadium. If enough people stop watching, .. pop!
Tom Brady is too busy competing.
The best player in the NFL is a 40-year-old guy drafted in the 6th round.
The product is sub par because the players are sub par.
Colin Kaepernick is athletically gifted but a moron football wise (and in general he is an imbecile). He’s 10 Times the athlete Brady or Kurt Warner. But Brady and Warner are smart as hell football wise and work their asses off. If you have time to give a shit about Social Justice then you don’t have the mental ability to play professional sports.
Why should their feelings take precedence over the feelings of those who feel differently?
Because we're the ones paying the bills. They need us far, far more than we need them. And if they choose to piss us off? They'll eventually need to find another line of work.
This ain't rocket science, Cookie.
Now I see......there's a Farmer, and there also exists a J. Farmer. I shall no longer conflate the two!!
This began as a guy simply trying to get some pussy and got way way out of hand.
@Robert Cook,
"They are being prohibited from showing their discontent over serious social problems in the country."
They can show their discontent on their own time.
"If America's freedoms mean anything at all, it means we have the right to show our discontent."
...on our own time.
Robert Cook is concerned about indoctrination?
Better not tell him about the stranglehold Liberals have on K-12 and higher education.
He may be allergic to reality.
University of Michigan’s $85M plan aims to promote diversity
https://legalinsurrection.com/2016/10/u-michigan-to-spend-85-million-promoting-diversity/
Well...then they should stop playing the National Anthem at sporting events. That makes it political.
This is only true for people who hate America.
The NFL couldn't have handled this worse. They've already pissed off conservatives; this will anger liberal fans without winning back many of the people who have already stopped watching.
this will anger liberal fans without winning back many of the people who have already stopped watching.
You misspelled 'any.'
Robert Cook said...
And forcing players to stand or otherwise show deference to the nation while the Anthem is playing is also political, and offensive.
Players aren't being forced to stand. A more perceptive person would realize that having to misstate reality in order for it to support your point proves your point isn't supported by reality.
When he writes "overexposed, subpar product," he is insulting the players.
When revenues fall "subpar product" isn't an insult. It's a fiduciary duty.
The NFL couldn't have handled this worse.
Give Rozelle his due, he was a son of a bitch, but this would have never happened when he was in charge.
This is only true for people who hate America.
Bingo.
Concerning TV revenue and related issues: is there anything stopping the networks from following the players who elect not to be on the field to wherever they will be instead, and then broadcasting images of the protesting players (perhaps in the one-knee pose) while broadcasting the sound of the Anthem? 'Cause you know that's what the networks are going to want to do.
It seems like ancient history when Rick Monday saved that flag. Thank you sir.
If the NFL stopped playing the National Anthem entirely to please the likes of Robert Cook, they would only succeed in turning off more football fans - and it's not like Cook would suddenly develop an interest in watching the NFL. That's the really dumb thing about how the NFL has dealt with this issue. They've pissed off fans to placate SJWs who really don't give a damn about the sport. It's not just the NFL players who appear to be suffering from brain damage.
is there anything stopping the networks from following the players who elect not to be on the field to wherever they will be instead, and then broadcasting images of the protesting players (perhaps in the one-knee pose) while broadcasting the sound of the Anthem?
If they're smart, the NFL.
They've pissed off fans to placate SJWs who really don't give a damn about the sport.
Worse...most of the SJWs actively oppose the NFL.
Robert Cook: Really? We have to care about the tender feelings of people who want to stand for the anthem and want everyone else to stand, too? Why should they care? Why should their feelings take precedence over the feelings of those who feel differently?
It's all simply indoctrination.
In the dictionaries I've checked so far, indoctrination isn't defined as simple common courtesy.
They are being prohibited from showing their discontent over serious social problems in the country. If America's freedoms mean anything at all, it means we have the right to show our discontent.
They are prohibited from showing their discontent while at work, by their employer. When you work for someone, they are allowed to constrain you to focus on what they pay you to do. In the present case: Play Football in front of paying fans.
Employers have freedom too, you know: The freedom to do exactly what I said: Expect the people that they pay to do the things they're paying them to do. I don't see why the Players' wishes here trump the owners'.
Those who make a living entertaining people for money should not be surprised when people cease to pay them when they cease to be entertaining. For further details, ask the Dixie Chicks and former ESPN executives.
Showing disrespect for the anthem is showing disrespect for the nation. It's saying: "I hate America". That's not politics, that's treason.
A: I think we should do X to make Y happen.
B: I think that won't work, we should do Z.
C: I don't think Y should happen at all.
Those are political statements. "I hate this nation" is not politics. If you hate this nation. Leave. No one is stopping you.
simple common courtesy
Bourgeois sentimentality.
When revenues fall "subpar product" isn't an insult. It's a fiduciary duty.
If I recall correctly, they were able to field teams during the 1987 strike, and the quality of play went from triple crown horses to 3stooges, but it was still entertaining!
If I recall correctly, they were able to field teams during the 1987 strike, and the quality of play went from triple crown horses to 3stooges, but it was still entertaining!
In 1987 the replacement players weren't expressing contempt for their customers.
I sometimes wonder if Cook is an amateur Colbert, just playing like an idiot leftist to show h=how stupid the position really is.
I don't believe the NFL has, to date, acknowledged that the Anthem protests have hurt their bottom line.
As for the First Amendment issues raised by the NFL’s actions, I’ll take them seriously when Planned Parenthood is forced to allow pro-life employees to speak their conscience on baby-killing to women who arrive to receive their abortions.
I remember when Topps Football cards had the player's "off season job" printed on the back, because football didn't pay enough to support a guy all year long.
My ex talked about Jim Taylor living in the same neighborhood has her and her family. Her dad was a postman. Taylor would dress up as Santa Claus on Christmas and bring candy to the neighborhood children.
Jim fucking Taylor was a neighbor of a working class guy.
"They can show their discontent on their own time.
'If America's freedoms mean anything at all, it means we have the right to show our discontent.'
"...on our own time."
At any time. This doesn't mean showing our discontent is guaranteed to be consequence-free. If the players want to do it in a public venue on team time, that's their right...and they must expect possible consequences. If the owners want to take punitive action against the players, that's their right, and then it'll be up to the players to decide what they want to do.
FWIW, another commenter said ealier "Have you ever had the feeling that a large contingent of NFL players are at the bottom of the IQ curve." That's actually not true. To play at the highest level (the NFL) you need to be *both* physically outstanding *and* very smart. NFL plays are incredibly complex and learning and executing the playbook is a huge task. Players get thru school with a lot of help and cheating. But (again, for those that make it to the NFL) it wasn't because the raw intelligence wasn't there. They just weren't applying it to schoolwork.
If the players comply with the new rule, NFL football will take a step back to being just sports. If the players don't comply, it'll help Trump.
The above is the comment closest to reality so far in this thread. This is the reality: The NFL has been spanked by Trump and sent to bed without its supper.
And forcing players to stand or otherwise show deference to the nation while the Anthem is playing is also political, and offensive.
The players who do not want to stand have the option to stay off the field during the anthem … no one is forced to stand for anything.
My hope is that some hardnosed players, with support from a progressive owner or two, will go ahead and kneel during the anthem despite the NFL Commissioner giving them that face-saving option. They certainly seem stupid enough and it would play into Trump’s hand.
Why is that my hope? It has been highly amusing watching Trump fuck them for their disrespect and I want to see more. Hard lessons are the best to learn and I do not believe the NFL, its owners and players have yet learned that lesson.
Why should a sporting event start with the National Anthem?
Organize sport has always had a political dimension, whether it is the Olympic games (ancient and modern), the gladiatorial games of Eturia or Latinum, the knightly tournaments of Europe, or Mayan pitz.
Football is our Olympic game.
"Robert Cook said...
"How does that make it political."
Really?"
Yea, really. It's apolitical. Or at least it used to be.
"Showing disrespect for the anthem is showing disrespect for the nation. It's saying: 'I hate America." That's not politics, that's treason."
No, that is not treason. It also does not (necessarily) mean "I Hate America." It often just means "I am Unhappy With (Problems in )America."
The existential problem for the NFL is that it has become a black league playing for a white fan base. The more that it adopts black culture the more that it alienates it's white working class base.
By celebrating the future prison inmates who protest to support the cop killers of Black Lives Matters is to further push away their former fans.
The NFL must eliminate the influence of criminality, domestic abuse, drug abuse and rap music that permeates the atmosphere at most NFL games these days. The way to do that is to draw a line at the anthem. Cut anyone who doesn't stand for the anthem. Cut anyone who is guilty of domestic abuse. Of drug abuse. Of listening to rap music. Cut them and replace them with lesser talents who are at least patriotic law abiding Americans.
"The players have all the power here. The twofold question is: Do they know it, and will they use it?"
If they "know" something that ain't so, and "use" something that doesn't exist, they suffer from worse brain damage than I thought.
PS I was kidding about rap music. But the rest still goes. You need to cut them and put them on the street. No amount of talent is worth destroying your fans base.
PJ: Good point about network coverage - but that won't matter because the morons at ESPN will handle what the protesters did ad nauseum for the rest of the week.
A lot of Blacks still think that Michael Brown was standing still, holding his hands upward and trying to surrender when he was shot to death by police officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri, in August 2014.
The football players protesting the National Anthem probably believe that Brown was killed in that manner.
However, when Barrack Obama was President and Eric Holder was Attorney General, the US Justice Department investigated that killing and exonerated police officer Wilson.
What happened was that three Black nitwits claimed that they saw the killing. They gave lots of interviews on television, and they described Brown standing still, raising his hands and trying to surrender.
None of those three Black nitwit liars actually saw the killing. Because of their lies, much of the city of Ferguson was destroyed in 2014. Because of their lies, professional football players still are protesting the National Anthem in 2018.
The three Black nitwit liars should have been tried on perjury charges, and they surely would have been convicted.
I write a blog that is mostly about the Brown killing in Ferguson. My blog is called People Who Did Not See Michael Brown Being Killed.
The blog begins here.
If I recall correctly, they were able to field teams during the 1987 strike, and the quality of play went from triple crown horses to 3stooges, but it was still entertaining!
Yep. For three games.
By the third game, some players - Steve Largent and Jeff Kemp being two - crossed the line.
Strike was over by game four.
This doesn't mean showing our discontent is guaranteed to be consequence-free.
True, but that isn't congruent with the "progressive" concept of rights, is it?
The same people that want to get rid of the Anthem/flag ceremony because it's too political and divisive are the same one's that made it political and divisive.
That would be liberals. Destroyers of Worlds.
Sporting events start with the National Anthem because they are a part of a shared civic life. They remind us that we are all on the same team, as it were. They help prevent division in the republic by encouraging solidarity across political divides. Those who promote division by attacking the anthem at sporting events, driving one political side from the stadium, are attacking the republic.
The NBA has the same problem. They play in much smaller arenas for much less money. Don't get me wrong they make some serious coin. But not NFL level gelt. So they can afford to bow down to their players.
However the NBA is smart enough to force every player to stand and be respectful during the Anthem. All because of the Chris Jackson debacle. They know their status as a big time sport is actually pretty tenuous.
Anyway, the Silverman diatribe also illustrates that most sorts writers are SJWs as well. Discussion of the owner solution on ESPN yesterday: not one person taking the side of the fans.
Progs destroy everything they touch.
Robert Cook, the National Anthem isn't political because it isn't tied to any party or political faction or philosophy. It's tied to patriotism, which transcends politics. I see that you have granted that the owners are within their rights to sanction players who exercise their right to protest while at work, but how does that not completely undermine everything else you've been saying? I'm left wondering what your point is.
The anthem thing is ridiculous in the first place. I guess the right deserves to be tweaked on it, but the kneelers are idiotic in their protest on first principles too.
Even if you liked the anthem, it's murdered by the singer all the time. The right musical reaction is to fall to the ground and put your hands over your head.
"Yea, really. It's apolitical. Or at least it used to be."
No. Playing the National Anthem at sporting events and expecting everyone to stand or even hold their hands over the hearts is never apolitical. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to do it. It's indoctrination.
Money talks and bullshit walks.
The billionaires have the money and the players can be replaced.
There is alot of talent out there waiting for their chance to play NFL.
It's silly to believe anyone is indespensible.
If I could edit, I'd delete "philosophy" because of course it does represent a philosophy--that people have rights, that the first job of government is to protect those rights and that the government serves the people, not the other way around.
Which leads me to the question of why the players want to protest human rights and human dignity, but I suspect it's mstly because they are stupid.
Robert Cook, the National Anthem isn't political because it isn't tied to any party or political faction or philosophy. It's tied to patriotism, which transcends politics.
No, it's a political side saying you have to show respect to exactly this in the way we demand you show respect. It's a power play.
I'd say the demand is anti-patriotic. It shows not understanding either respect or patriotism.
Military training pretends, as an exercise, that exactly this is worthy of respect. That's a military exercise with a point. That it's actually ridiculous increases its value as a training exercise. The team comes first.
At any time. This doesn't mean showing our discontent is guaranteed to be consequence-free. If the players want to do it in a public venue on team time, that's their right...and they must expect possible consequences. If the owners want to take punitive action against the players, that's their right,
So basically not only do you not have a problem with the policy, it's your preferred solution.
You've just been shitting on the carpet for fun.
"No, that is not treason. It also does not (necessarily) mean "I Hate America." It often just means "I am Unhappy With (Problems in )America.""
"I hate America" is what it communicates to me, and to much of America. That's how the symbol of the flag is meant to work. And since that's the message it sends, if you don't want to send that message, don't do it.
"langford peel said...
The NBA has the same problem. They play in much smaller arenas for much less money."
Average salary in NBA is much higher than NFL. NFL ranks 4th behind NBS, MLB, and NHL. Top salaries are similar NBA and NFL.
Playing the National Anthem at sporting events and expecting everyone to stand or even hold their hands over the hearts is never apolitical. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to do it. It's indoctrination.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Or the slightest bit unusual in history.
The problem is that there isn't an owner with enough balls to stand up to his players. The NFL was screwed when they rehired that piece of shit Roger Goodell. They were doomed.
Jerry Jones screwed the pooch when he didn't go forward with stopping this SJW from being rehired. From making a million dollar bribe and not even getting what they wanted. What a maroon!
If some of the old dinosaurs like Art Rooney or Wellington Mara or George Halas were still around they would have put a stop to this bullshit. Instead they get scum buckets like this guy that just bought the Panthers.
All in all it is good news. This misbegotten abortion of a policy is only going to hasten the demise of the NFL.
Stand up for the FLAG, motherf**kers.
It's the flag of the country that keeps you free to earn money and be the a**holes you want to be!
My favorite time watching football was living on the east coast and watching invy league football. It was great! A 40 point lead meant nothing. A few mistakes. A few good plays and the game was a contest.
BTW, I disagree with those who think Cook is some sort of outrageous troll. He really does seem to be an independent thinker and I always read his posts, even if I frequently disagree strongly, unlike the other bomb throwing idiots (not naming names) who I endeavor to skip as much as possible.
Ficta, agreed. He is also generally pleasant, even when attacked.
"Average salary in NBA is much higher than NFL. NFL ranks 4th behind NBS, MLB, and NHL. Top salaries are similar NBA and NFL."
The average salary is much higher because there are much fewer players. If there were the same number of NBA players on a team as the NFL the salaries would be comparable.
The point isn't actually the amount of the salary. It is the rules that the league makes. The NBA respects the flag and the anthem. Or at least it pretends that it does. It is full of people who hate Trump and the deplorables. Jagoffs like Steve Kerr and Popavich and Lebron. But they don't piss in the fans ear and tell them it is raining. Somehow they can support the cop killers in Black Lives Matters off the court and still show some respect for the flag.
The NFL owners don't have the balls to demand that these miscreants respect the flag. That is why the air is going out of the balloon.
"Robert Cook, the National Anthem isn't political because it isn't tied to any party or political faction or philosophy. It's tied to patriotism, which transcends politics. I see that you have granted that the owners are within their rights to sanction players who exercise their right to protest while at work, but how does that not completely undermine everything else you've been saying? I'm left wondering what your point is."
How does it undermine anything I've said? Do you think I have said the players have a right to protest and also have a guarantee against facing consequences? The players have a right to stage a public protest. If the owners really want to stop them, they can sanction the players. If the players choose not to protest under threat of sanctions, then they have made a rational calculation of how important their protest is to them. If they choose to protest under threat of sanction, they have made their decision as to how important their protest is to them. Then it'll be up to the owners to decide how important it is to them to suspend or even fire players who may be fan favorites or who may be responsible for making the team profitable.
Patriotism doesn't transcend politics if one is being forced to participate in a public show of patriotism. That's like punishing a Party member who doesn't participate in Two Minutes Hate.
I do think the forced show of "love" of flag and country is pernicious and smacks of authoritarianism. But then, we are becoming very much an authoritarian state.
Rhhardin, power play is not a synonym for political. Patriotism is often used by politicians, but it is not political.
But then, we are becoming very much an authoritarian state.
/rolls eyes
Gahrie: "Give Rozelle his due, he was a son of a bitch, but this would have never happened when he was in charge."
Well, if Al Davis was for it I can imagine a scenario where this might have happened under Rozelle!
The National Anthem is not political. It's above politics. All countries have anthems, and borders, and flags, and traditions.
At some point in the 60s, Leftists decided to politicize most everything, because they genuinely dislike America. So, they want to erode the National Anthem, and burn the flag, tear down statues, and open the borders-- or, covertly enable those who do it.
If NFL players dislike the Anthem so much, that they are willing to forego their paychecks to express their principled discontent, well, I'd be impressed. But somehow I doubt that will happen.
Robert Cook is exactly right. The players have the right to protest on the field. They also have the right to suffer the consequences of that protest. Namely they should be cut and banned from the league. Until they agree not to kneel. Simple.
However the NFL owners are pussies and have surrendered as have so many corporations. They only listen to the politically correct. So they are going the way of Dick's Sporting Goods and ESPN. Get Woke Go Broke.
They still don't seem to realize the danger they are in of losing another 20-50% of their fan base.
The flag, National Anthem is what binds us as a people. Americans. If that becomes too "divisive", then what are we? A place on a map? If the symbols/traditions of this country no longer bind us, what does? There is literally not much else we have in common.
They don't care. They think there are enough pajama boys and minorities out on parole to fill their stadiums.
Hey can the government set up a Section Eight Program for season tickets?
Robert, we are hardly "becoming" more attached to the national anthem. If anything, the opposite (for i stance, when I was a child, we stood every morning for the pledge of allegiance--which children still do in my adopted home of Canada). Which is not to say I don't think we are becoming more authoritarian when we clearly were up until Trump was elected. And we probably will resume our slide after he is gone. All his work rolling back the coercive power of the state will be undone.
But if you're fine with owners expecting players to stand for the anthem if they are on the field while it is being played, then what is all this arguing about? What is your complaint?
Robert Cook: Really? We have to care about the tender feelings of people who want to stand for the anthem and want everyone else to stand, too? Why should they care? Why should their feelings take precedence over the feelings of those who feel differently?
It's all simply indoctrination.
Oh ffs, Cookie. Millions of employees working in corporate America have to put up with blatant PC indoctrination sessions as a condition of employment. (Conducted by moron activist consultants, to make it extra tasty.) And then they get an extra dollop of struggle session every time some screaming band of SJW thugs decide to run another "I'm so offended" shakedown. And unlike your noble dissenters, some of them them will be sacked if they presume to express their dissent about whatever on their own time, outside of work.
And you're blathering about "dictatorial regimes" because this time private citizens with the "correct" opinions are being told to suck it up and exercise sensitivity and respect and inclusiveness blabbity blah blah blah toward paying customers *when on the clock for their employer*?
Rhhardin, power play is not a synonym for political. Patriotism is often used by politicians, but it is not political.
It's not patriotism. It's a power play. I can make you stand and "show" respect when I want you to, is the message.
Patriotism would insist the practice stop. We're American because we agree to the constitution, not because of the stupid flag.
The constitution doesn't need anything representing it. That would be unconstitutional, in fact. The mind your own business clause.
Let me echo Ficta and tim concerning Mr. Cook's contributions to the discussion/community, which I value.
That said, I thought the essence of the advertised "compromise" among the owners was precisely that there was to be no forced show of "love" of flag and country. I think Mr. Cook makes a good point about forced shows, even if it's an employer doing the enforcing on company time. But my understanding is that the new NFL policy is designed to avoid forced shows (though perhaps some individual team owners will do more in that regard than the league requires). I know Mr. Cook has also defended the idea that favoring displays of respect for the flag/country by forcing dissenters off the field is also a rights violation, but I think that's a much weaker attack on the new policy.
Hey that's the ticket. They can get HUD to issue bad mortgages to high risk clients so every Jamal, Rashid and Trayvon can afford the seat licensing fees. Then the expanded Section Eight program can pay for the season tickets and the EBT cards can pay for the snacks.
Brilliant!!!
The flag, National Anthem is what binds us as a people. Americans. If that becomes too "divisive", then what are we? A place on a map? If the symbols/traditions of this country no longer bind us, what does? There is literally not much else we have in common.
One thing makes us all Americans. The rules. The constitution. Nothing else.
That's why you don't want Muslim immigration. They can't agree to the rules and so can't be American. Draw Mohammad and see what happens to you, where the mind your own business clause ought to protect you.
The solution to the lack of compromise is to recognize that the flag ceremony is ridiculous. Both sides are wrong at the moment, one for requiring it and the other for showing disrespect to it, as if it were showing respect in the first place.
I appreciate Ace of Spades for pointing out the following:
"NFL has longstanding rules against political messaging during NFL events; they enforced this rule against people who wanted to wear cleats with 9/11-remembrance paint on them and against the Dallas Cowboys for memorializing the Dallas cops killed by the Black Lives Matter ambush assassin."
So, hmm, kneeling during the national anthem is not political messaging as defined by the NFL? I guess I'm not sophisticated enough to appreciate the nuance.
Maybe I am an oddball, but I don’t really care that much about the flag as a protest symbol, but I don’t want politics with my sports. Hence I only watch ESPN when they have some really compelling exclusive broadcast rights.
But if they want to pollute the product more to prove that football fans are all copasetic with them politically, that’s their lookout. I won’t even watch the Golf Channel until I feel like enough time has passed for the latest round of Trump bashing MSNBC promo spots to end.
"So basically not only do you not have a problem with the policy, it's your preferred solution."
I don't know what you mean by "preferred solution."
"You've just been shitting on the carpet for fun."
Not at all. You must just have been making assumptions about what I meant.
I think the playing of the National Anthem at sporting events or any event not directly connected to an event or holiday meant to celebrate our history is offensive and coercive. I admire the players who feel strongly enough about their grievances to make a public show of their unhappiness. If it is truly important enough to the owners to sanction the players, then...let them. We'll see how it sorts out. I am a supporter of unions and the right to strike, but strikes do come with consequences to the strikers. Striking workers have been killed to win what we now see as the norm: five day work weeks, eight hour workdays, safe workplaces, decent pay, etc. (Of course, as union strength in the country has waned--or been killed off by corrupt mob intrusion into union activities--decent pay and safe workplaces are no longer a given. Heck, these days, even non-toxic drinking water from our public waterworks is not a given.)
The one thing that brings us all together as Americans is signing a loyalty oath before each meal.
Like Catch-22.
Yeah, Cook is making a civilized argument -- a dissenting opinion from the wild nationalistic impulses by the deplorable commentariat. Good on ya, Cook!
Although the USA is a very young country (only 242 years old), we have helped spur massive amounts of prosperity and peace and modernity throughout the globe.
Some people see this quite clearly, some people miss it.
Most of those who see it, don't have a problem with the flag, the Anthem, the Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, border patrol, etc, etc.
The NFL is a business. Players kneeling is bad for business. Players are free to protest on their own time, though exactly what their demands are have never been made clear (end bad people? free candy? no more honkies?).
Unions get better wages at the cost to other workers willing to work for less who are not hired.
Curiously entirely predictable on first principles.
Then the union collapses in the face of non-union competition.
Assuming it's not a government union.
Most of those who see it, don't have a problem with the flag, the Anthem, the Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, border patrol, etc, etc.
The flag and the Anthem and the Statue of Liberty are fake patriotism. Graven images.
The border patrol and the constitution are important.
It's a matter of real vs fake.
I think the Democrats should run with this issue! Also, they can explain how they are going to bring down oil prices by banning fracking and killing pipelines!
rhhardin: We're American because we agree to the constitution, not because of the stupid flag.
If rhhardin can keep repeating his retarded shit on this subject, I can do the same with my retarded shit (copypasted from previous NFL thread):
Gawd, not this retarded shit again.
Maybe one of these days you can enlighten us as to who this mystical "we" is you keep invoking, these "Americans" who are all in agreement about "the rules".
So all those millions of American citizens out there these days who want to gut the first and second amendments, who absolutely don't want to "mind their own business", who are drunk on identity politics, etc., etc, etc., aren't real Americans (no matter how indignant they become at the suggestion), because they don't agree with you about what the rules should be, and sure as hell aren't willing to leave you in peace.
OK, fine. Now what?
When "the Constitution" has become a gnostic document, whose true (legally enforceable) meaning resides up some partisan judge's butt, then it, too, is merely symbolic, and invoking it is invoking a fetish.
Even the stupidest, whoriest propositionnationofimmigrants cuckservative has been known to be dimly aware (even if on only one out of every 365 days), that law is rooted in culture and not vice-versa.
Added: To your credit, you don't believe in "magic dirt" and "natural conservatives", as you apparently grasp that it's a bad idea to import large numbers of people who don't agree with you about what the rules are. Now, what are you going to do about the fact that there are millions of people already here (roughly half the country, some of them descended from generations of Americans) who don't agree with you about the rules - particularly the leaving you the hell alone part. They invoke Muh Constitution all the time, too.
We get it -- criminals hate cops. Always have, always will.
What is an idol?
An idol is a useless sacrifice, said Isaiah.
But how do you know which ones are useless? asked the nation in its genius.
Isaiah pondered the various ways he could answer this.
Immense chunks of natural reality fell out of a blue sky and showers of light upon his mind.
Isaiah chose the way of metaphor.
Our life is a camera obscura, said Isaiah, do you know what that is?
Never heard of it, said the nation.
Imagine yourself in a darkened room, Isaiah instructed.
Okay, said the nation.
The doors are closed, there is a pinhole in the back wall.
A pinhole, the nation repeated.
Light shoots through the pinhole and strikes the opposite wall.
The nation was watching Isaiah, bored and fascinated at once.
You can hold up anything you like in front of that pinhole, said Isaiah,
and worship it on the opposite wall.
Why worship an image? asked the nation.
Exactly, said Isaiah.
Anne Carson
The idiot who wrote this is of some interest: Your product sucks and is headed for collapse, so balls to the wall sirs!
Personally, I don’t think they can take the head trauma out of the NFL and it is doomed in any case, so I will figure that we have done well if the stadiums end up as soccer fields, and not execution grounds used to exterminate infidels as has happened elsewhere.
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