Vanity Fair.
Can't they just have their orgies?
Oh, but how does that interface with the burgeoning #MeToo society?
One venture capitalist, dressed up as a bunny... offered Jane Doe some powder in a plastic bag. It was Molly. “They said it will just make you feel relaxed and you’re going to like being touched,” Doe recounted to me. Nervous, she dipped her finger into the powder and put it in her mouth. Soon, her guard dropped. Then, the male founder asked if he could kiss her... Jane Doe, who considers herself fairly adventurous and open-minded, kissed the founder, then became uncomfortable, feeling as if she had been pressured or targeted.“I don’t know what I’m doing, I feel really stupid, I’m drugged up because I’d never taken it before, and he knew I’d never taken it,” she recalled. ...What about the oft-taught principle that you can always say no, at any point in an encounter? Here, the idea is if you enter the party, you've got to do something. It's sort of like the classic date rape situation, where, we've learned, going back to someone's room doesn't become an irrevocable commitment to have sex. And administering a drug to simplify the proceedings can get you prosecuted, like Bill Cosby.
While this particular woman felt ambushed, if it’s your first time, a friend will normally fill you in on what you’re signing up for, and you are expected to keep it to yourself. You know that if you do drugs with someone you work with you shouldn’t mention it to anyone, and the same goes with sex. In other words, we’re not hiding anything, but, actually, we kind of are. You only get invited if you can be trusted and if you’re going to play ball. “You can choose not to hook up with [a specific] someone, but you can’t not hook up with anybody, because that would be voyeurism. So if you don’t participate, don’t come in,” says one frequent attendee, whom I’ll call Founder X, an ambitious, world-traveling entrepreneur.
But here, you're not forced to do anything with anyone, just socially pressured to do something with someone. Don't go to parties you don't plan to enjoy, and leave if you decide you don't like it.
But then, are we not back to the problem of the women who watched Louis C.K. masturbate? I don't see them getting labeled voyeurs.
There's great empathy, these days, for women who are trying to make it in a male-dominated business and find themselves challenged by sexual demands that seem like they might be what you need to do to succeed. Yes, these women can turn around and walk away, but in the #MeToo era, that is considered a despicably retrograde response.
पोस्ट्स
१३५ टिप्पण्या:
There's no official line on how fragile women are supposed to be yet.
Fragile has political advantages. You can smash men.
It's always made me chuckle that these people view themselves, and call themselves 'progressive'.
The male dominated world is male dominated because men enjoy it.
It's an interest thing.
Orgies are religious ceremonies.
If it's from Greek, probably rough breathing is involved. An h was dropped.
Aspire to be great.
If this was all legal and not rape, then why no names? These VC’s should be proud. Might help them raise money in the future.
Dressed as a bunny?
Women are, and have always been free to reject invitations to parties like these or to leave when they feel uncomfortable. The problem is, as the story says, business gets conducted at these parties, at strip clubs, and on golf courses. When a woman refuses or is not allowed to enter these "places of business", she is eliminated from participating in the inner circle of the business. It's a very effective way of keeping women out. If she attends the sex party, she's a slut unworthy of a trusted position in the inner circle. If she stays away, she's eliminating herself from the circle. When my Japanese boss was planning a golf outing where decisions were to be made, he was startled when I informed him I, too, can play golf. He took me out for a 9-hole round to test me, and I had the audacity to beat him. Not being willing to be humiliated in front of his peers, but knowing he had no justifiable reason for not including me, the meeting was moved to the conference room, where it should have been in the first place. I have no problem with men behaving badly or preferring to play golf with other men. I do have a problem with deliberately making it all but impossible for women to play on a level field.
The article is quite good. It describes a bunch of nerd-bros who were lonely eunuchs as teens and are now getting their freak on.
What rings false is this idea of tech women as victims if they decide to take it up the arse in front of their boss. There are limits to the libertine ethos, as anyone who isn't 13 probably understands.
I sympathize with the type of issue Eleanor describes and agree 100% that this happens all the time (in Phoenix lots of business among local tech elites is conducted around golf).
But doubt much business is discussed at these orgies; despite article's attempt to try and make the orgies about somehow excluding or discriminating against women in Silicon Valley, I don't think they are about that either.
Watch the great movie Eyes Wide Shut: the orgies are what they are; extremely rich/powerful men have organized stuff like this for centuries for the same reason dogs lick their balls - because they can. The @metoo movement is not going to suddenly stop them.
Also think Victor Ziegler was speaking the truth - "Who do you think those people were? Those were not just some ordinary people. If I told you their names... no, I'm not going to tell you their names... but if I did, I don't think you'd sleep so well at night."
I do have a problem with deliberately making it all but impossible for women to play on a level field
Then gather the like minded women, organize the capital, take the risks, make the sacrifices and build your own field across the street.
The problem is, as the story says, business gets conducted at these parties, at strip clubs, and on golf courses.
Sure it does. When the CEO and head marketer are tag teaming how could they just concentrate on sex? Of course they're discussing the priority of features in the upcoming ap release.
I'm not going to tell you their names... but if I did, I don't think you'd sleep so well at night."
Why? Does she think everyone is a prudish busybody? People do weird things of all types and pretty much none of them cost me any sleep. Who cares about the sex lives of people they don't even know?
It could be worse, the industry could be dominated by Christians. Think of how oppressive that would be!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_jzDGv0KKw
There are limits to the libertine ethos, as anyone who isn't 13 probably understands.
I don't think that is true for large segments of the population, particularly the younger set. They grew up with access to free porn on the Internet and their "moral education" pretty much amounts to "consent" and "don't be racist, homophobic, etc." Fidelity is not a virtue, people are, while not quite objects since you need their "consent" before using them for your gratification, are objects actually, but you have to pretend otherwise. To get them to consent. For sure their well-being and needs are not something you need to be concerned with. And as for an external, objective morality arising from an imaginary sky-fairy/god? It is to laugh.
The old joke used to be that the sexual revolution was over, the men won. Turns out that an ethos of unbridled sexuality completely disconnected from human values such as love, respect, and fidelity isn't advantageous to women. Who would have thunk it?
"I do have a problem with deliberately making it all but impossible for women to play on a level field."
Business is conducted at all-male sex parties?
Suppose a guy and his work bros want to blow off some steam so they go to a sex party. Would you make that okay, as long as they did not discuss business?
If they did invite female coworkers to go to the sex party with them, would that be okay?
I do have a problem with deliberately making it all but impossible for women to play on a level field
How is this true? There are plenty of men who won't be invited but somehow those disadvantaged are the women who are invited? All they have to do is decline and they're in the same circumstances as the overwhelming majority of men.
We've been waiting to see how MeToo will be diluted into nonsense. Now we know.
There is an Ave Casualty that is on her second round on the street. Years ago she would frequent the bar, play pool, socialize. A very pretty young woman, she was outgoing, with a quick smile. Drama did not seem to circle her, like it does some young women. Drama chases some women; some invite it. For her it seemed to keep a respectable distance.
Then she stopped coming inside the bar as much, but you would still see her on the street, outside, passing by. She had fallen in love with a Heroin Kid. Maybe she thought she could save him, I don't know. But of course it went the other way, like it usually does: she began to get thin, her eyes became dull, distant. Soon the quickest way to see her was to wander by the Heroin Kids in front of the Sporting Goods store, hoping for spare change from the random pedestrians who hadn't seen all of this before.
Then she disappeared. Which often meant an overdose. However, the word was she left to go back home to the Midwest, to family. Not many happy endings for the Heroin Kids, but this seemed like it might be one of them.
A few years later she returned to Seattle. And was eventually seen on the Ave. She seemed clean, healthy; she had a job at one of the local coffee shops that catered more to the would-be artists than the University students. The woman who ran the coffee shop fell in love with her; maybe she loved her back. Some people said they were a couple, some said the Midwest Girl just spent the night with the woman who ran the coffee shop on occasion.
Then came the Drama. Like Neil Young's Rust, it never seems to sleep. The Midwest Girl hooked up with another Heroin Kid, whose main distinction was he usually wore a dress. With his big boots and scraggly beard. Again, thin; again, eyes dull, distant. When she wore short sleeves you could see infections along her inner arm.
I was having a cigarette outside the bar when she passed by, then stopped. We exchanged pleasantries; she asked for a smoke, and I gave her one. Oh: and she had a nasty black eye.
She explained that she made money sometimes at a private sex club near downtown. She would dominate men, tease them; she would get paid. It was generally safe, she said: there were rules. One of the men broke the rules, and now she had a black eye.
She talked of the sex club as if it were a shift at the coffee shop. This was now normal in her world. Good money. And men broke rules everywhere, really; it happens.
She said Good-Bye, thanked me again for the cigarette, then walked down the street, toward the Heroin Kids. She made it out, once; it was probably too much to think she would make it out again.
- james james
I remember seeing really old movies, like from the 1930s, that showed lumpy old white business guys with towels wrapped around then talking deals in turkish baths.
DO they still do that? Because I've never been invited to a business meeting at a turkish bath. So it would keep girls out, y'know.
I wouldn't go anyway. Sounds kinky. And my cigar wouldn't stay lit.
If they did invite female coworkers to go to the sex party with them, would that be okay?
My assumption is that most of the women at these parties are prostitutes. A bunch of top Silicon Valley execs were just busted for hiring prostitutes. Though strangely enough, I can't find a link to the story I saw just a couple of days ago using a search engine. Odd. Anyway, most women would not want to attend an orgy. I know that's hard to believe, but the depiction of women's sexual natures in porn may not be completely accurate. A lot of women have "hang-ups" about having sex with people they don't really know in front of other people they don't really know. Probably because they have been indoctrinated in "bourgeois" values. That's why you have to drug them. So that they will get over their "hang-ups."
I think the key word in the lede is "some".
It gives scrum a whole new meaning.
How is this true? Compare career trajectories and see how it's true.
Some women don't like it when men like to do things that women don't like to do. That's why a movie theater in my town used to show Bambi on the first day of hunting season.
This story sets off my BS detector. Oh, I'm sure there are some rich dudes that participate in these kinds of parties. However, I'm guessing few of them are recruiting employees to participate. The negative legal ramifications for their businesses and careers could be huge.
Since money doesn't seem to be an issue, I'm guessing they would be more likely to hire prostitutes who could provide the desired service with discretion.
They made a movie about this years ago. It was called "Behind the Green Door"
I doubt much business gets done once the drugs are passed out and the clothes come off.
James James -- your story sounds like a Craig Finn song. Highly recommended.
I, myself, would happily attend a sex party if it was just me and a dozen naked women. But invite my male coworkers to join me? Are you kidding?
Eleanor: Women are, and have always been free to reject invitations to parties like these or to leave when they feel uncomfortable. The problem is, as the story says, business gets conducted at these parties, at strip clubs, and on golf courses. When a woman refuses or is not allowed to enter these "places of business", she is eliminated from participating in the inner circle of the business. It's a very effective way of keeping women out. If she attends the sex party, she's a slut unworthy of a trusted position in the inner circle.
So how do you "fix" that? Do you really think it's possible to forbid "doing business" in all male venues, or any kind of venue that is "excluding" in one way or another?
I have no problem with men behaving badly or preferring to play golf with other men. I do have a problem with deliberately making it all but impossible for women to play on a level field.
You found a simple, one-off solution for forcing your boss off the golf course and into a conference room. I don't think that approach is going to be of much use in controlling the behavior of billionaire pervs, lol. Shutting down all the socializing/networking that is part of business the wide world 'round isn't going to happen.
Making major deal while a client and I spit roasted a female account manager is what I miss most after leaving the corporate world.
Maybe it's a cultural thing.
Locals here have a different culture. I once saw four brudda's coming out of the tattoo parlor across the street, pumping their fists and hooting. I sauntered over and talked to the illustrated man who ran the place.
"What, you give groups discounts now?"
"Nope, just inked one of 'em"
"He had to have his buddies there to cheer him on?"
Illustrated man nodded.
"Some guys can't get it up without a cheering section, I suppose. What kind of tat?"
Illustrated man looked disgusted. "Big one across his back" he said "Gothic letters. 'Latter Day Saints.'"
I love Hawaii.
"They made a movie about this years ago. It was called "Behind the Green Door" "
Of course, it's not new. That's the point of my title. What's new is the oldness of it in the new world where these men can actually lose everything for doing what used to be elite and thrilling.
"So how do you "fix" that? Do you really think it's possible to forbid "doing business" in all male venues, or any kind of venue that is "excluding" in one way or another?"
You don't "forbid" it with a top-down rule. You change the culture so that men either don't want to do it or want other things more than they want that.
"Yes, these women can turn around and walk away, but in the #MeToo era, that is considered a despicably retrograde response."
A women's ambition is sacrosanct. It is above morals, a family, children.
Feminism is a sham.
Think what the elite media culture would do to Donald Trump if they found out he'd attended even one party like what's described in that article.
And, really, isn't it amazing that for all the effort to turn up dirt on Donald, we don't have better stories than he social-kissed a woman and walked through a dressing room on one of his shows and joked about how stars can grab pussies?
Henry said...
"James James -- your story sounds like a Craig Finn song. Highly recommended."
I love Craig Finn, solo and with his band.
- james james
You want to see a person whose body has been exploited for the profits of others, find a sixty year old male carpenter.
Dem poor wimmins is always having some sort of problem.
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...
This story sets off my BS detector.
No kidding! This is the bogus product marketed by the (not bad looking) woman who used her name. They can't even say what it is and seem to need an excuse for failure.
> men can actually lose everything for doing what used to be elite and thrilling.
How the '60s people have changed!
Imagine Caliornia people taking drugs and fuckin' ...
Oh, that is the RIGHT people doing it
Vanity Fair has been taken over by the Pilgrim.
As I watch this #MeToo storm blow I feel that this explains the pains regular people have felt from the workplace harassment industry. I'm guessing the feminist hierarchy, feeling the sting of such actions by entertainment, media and political elites (even while the purported to be our moral betters), sought revenge by torturing regular people.
You change the culture so that men either don't want to do it or want other things more than they want that.
You go and build your own culture then influence the old one.
The sexes will only truly be equal when women commit suicide at the same rate as men, drop out of high school at the same rate as men, and are imprisoned at the same rate as men.
The source of this "problem" is bourgeois culture, not male culture.
Judging by the responses of some of the commenters on this and similar threads I think I am going to invest heavily in the sexbot industry.
You want to see a person whose body has been exploited for the profits of others, find a sixty year old male carpenter
Ain't this the truth. I know several with shot shoulders and knees. But they're still out there making a living every day, hoisting drywall, living on ibuprofen.
Like others, I question how much work gets done at orgies. On the Golf Course, yes, in a Turkish Bath/Sauna, maybe. For one, I would expect some of the prostitutes hired for the orgy are likely spies for other companies. You think they only get paid for sex?
Ann @ 8:06
This!
It's OK when Democrats do it.
You change the culture so that men either don't want to do it or want other things more than they want that.
We used to have that culture. It was found to be "repressive" and discarded. As you can see from this and similar threads, some people are quite attached to the new one.
Anyway, the culture in Silicon Valley is cool with drug fueled orgies, but don't get caught donating money to support the traditional view of marriage being between a man and a woman. That's just bigotry.
I'm sure the VC are all like "Hey, let's invest in that company where everyone has clap and a nosebleed."
AA: You don't "forbid" it with a top-down rule. You change the culture so that men either don't want to do it or want other things more than they want that.
Oh. "Change the culture". Hadn't thought of that.
(So neither gummint commissars nor private cultural "consultants" get any sinecure opportunities from this, right? Because they all look pretty "top-down" to me.)
Now the silicon elites are renting Prevost type recreational vehicles and invading Burning Man festivities setting up their own elitist neighborhood there. The non-elite are not allowed into the ritzy circle of wagons, so to speak, without being invited. Their own chefs, water trucks, sanitation disposal, generators outside the arena to avoid noise pollution. Reminds me of the French before that revolution and "Let them eat cake" laughter over the hum of their hot tubs and spas. These people are their own worst enemy. Some of the female attendees at Burning Man retreat put the 'silicon" in Silicon Valley if you get the drift. European sun block is not cheap...
In Barbarians at the Gates, Bryan Burrough and John Helyar describe how RJR-Nabisco CEO F. Ross Johnson liked to turn corporate strategy sessions into all-night drunks. If you couldn't deal sleepless, pissed, or hungover, you didn't get respect. That was clearly a hostile environment for almost all women, and most men, too.
It also resulted in shitty business decisions, as well documented.
Barbarians at the Gates was written in 1989, but like Michale Lewis's Liar's Poker, also written in 1989, it told a tale that has played over and over ever since.
". The problem is, as the story says, business gets conducted at these parties, at strip clubs, and on golf courses. When a woman refuses or is not allowed to enter these "places of business", she is eliminated from participating in the inner circle of the business."
Women cling to the idea that all the places men go to have fun together are actually business meetings. Funny. And, yes, a woman is eliminated when she refuses to enter these "places of business." Self eliminated.
No business is done at tech orgies. Zip.
You change the culture so that men either don't want to do it or want other things more than they want that.
Or, you can fire the football coach and spend the next ten years losing games.
The notice of claim was filed Thursday by the former employee and her attorney. A notice of claim is an advance notice of intent to file a lawsuit against a public body. Most notices of claim are first sent to the Arizona Board of Regents or the University of Arizona itself. Her $7.5 million claim went directly to the Attorney General’s Office.
Once again, the allegation is enough. Rodriguez has been a good coach but is known to be volatile.
So he shows her a bag with powder in it, tells (warns?) here what that powder will do, and she does it anyway?
Shame on him, of course, but OMFG, how stupid is Jane Doe?
_________________________
Ann Althouse at 8:06--Yes, if they had anything on Trump that could even be spun in a bad way, let alone be really bad, it would be in your face 24/7. He must be have lived the most chaste life of any 70-yr old NY real estate developer cum TV star in history, and all the talk was just him marketing himself.
He IS a germophobe, btb, which does not seem to lend itself to participating in orgies...
Professor, notice how the discussion centers around whether or not orgies are discriminatory towards women in the work place. The idea that orgies might be immoral in and of themselves is now quaint, at best. People who object to them and don't want to participate are just odd and prudish.
O brave new world, That has such people in ’t!
But of course you are correct, such activities are nothing new.
"Change the culture"
If we had found a way to stop grade school boys from giving nerds wedgies we might all still be carrying those friggin' bag phones.
And, really, isn't it amazing that for all the effort to turn up dirt on Donald, we don't have better stories than he social-kissed a woman and walked through a dressing room on one of his shows and joked about how stars can grab pussies?
I think we need to start using Al Franken as a barometer. A Franken unit (φ) is a constant that represents the exact tipping point between apology and resignation.
Anita Hill's allegations against Clarence Thomas < φ
Al Franken's groping history = φ
Donald Trump's groping and bragging history ~ φ
Bill Clinton > φ
https://www.amazon.com/Last-Closet-Dark-Side-Avalon-ebook/dp/B0787XLK4H
I borrow phi φ from mathematics. It represents the golden mean. It also sounds right. Phranken.
"He IS a germophobe, btb, which does not seem to lend itself to participating in orgies..."
I heard he once organized what they now call "that bubble-boy orgy", but it wasn't really...well they never had another one.
I tried to read the linked VF article. With pop-ups, the paragraphs shift up and down as you try to read, moving your place. Ugh. Too annoying to care.
If these freaks want to partake in orgies, and the sad women agree to show up because they think they might snag a rich guy, whatever. It's progressive!
Eleanor
"He took me out for a 9-hole round to test me, and I had the audacity to beat him"
I see you took no trouble to learn about Japanese business culture and when given the chance you decided to show him you were a better golfer.
You really don't get it do you?
"The Culture" is reduced to judging something only on whether or not it is discriminatory towards some protected class or another. And of course people who enjoy orgies, or at least the idea of orgies because chances are pretty good that the closest they ever got to one is via Internet facilitated porn, are going to argue that orgies aren't discriminatory towards women. No sirree, bob. And women's willingness to accommodate their fellow workers perfectly normal male impulse to have group sex after taking inhibition reducing drugs is not going to influence their opinion of them whatsoever. Why some of their best friends are odd or prudes, or both. Hang out with them all the time.
Can't they just have their orgies?
How much you want to bet Emily Chang isn't getting any, so she doesn't want anyone getting any?
"One venture capitalist, dressed up as a bunny..."
I am assuming this was a woman and not a man.
I would have a difficult time being aroused by a man looking like Ralphie in "A Christmas Story."
I'm not sure why women should be expected to set up a parallel universe in order to participate at the higher levels in the business world. I've also worked for a company where a number of the higher level management positions were held by women, but not all. We never held meetings at the local day spa although it would have been a very relaxing environment to do it in. The VP of marketing would have been decidedly unwelcome and uncomfortable. So we ordered a nice catered lunch and met in the conference room. It's not that hard to do business at your place of business. It's also not that hard to make the leap to believe men think it's their right to exclude women. I mean, there's a contingent here in Althouse World who want to repeal the 19th Amendment. ;-)
I am assuming this was a woman and not a man.
Oh, exiledonmainstreet, you are so wonderfully naive.
NSFW, really really NSFW
And yet, not actually pornographic.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=furry+culture&qpvt=furry+culture&FORM=IGRE
You want to see a person whose body has been exploited for the profits of others, find a sixty year old male carpenter.
Truth.
I was a college dropout(well it was more like I was drop-kicked out). In those youthful years I was a happy construction worker. Good pay, kept me in shape.
Then I began noting the guys in their 50's trying to get moving in the morning. They put out a hell of a day's work, but even young JAORE could see the cost.
Off to engineering school for me!
Then I began noting the guys in their 50's trying to get moving in the morning.
It doesn't matter what you do, you hit your 50's you start slowing down. Actually, it starts in your 40's and then starts accelerating.
I'm not sure why women should be expected to set up a parallel universe in order to participate at the higher levels in the business world
Your own words illustrate the problem- the nebulous the business world. That world didn't exist before the people now enjoying the spoils built it though risk taking and sacrifice. Instead, women wait for the winners and losers to sort themselves out then show up a the survivor's door demanding an equal seat at the table while demanding the culture change to conform to their ideals.
Setting up a 'parallel universe' as you call it is no different than what these guys did when the universe they inhabit didn't previously exist.
The problem is, as the story says, business gets conducted at these parties,
I will not say that this is a totally invalid point, but in this case, your analysis is utter nonsense.
Lois, the 55 year old harridan VP of accounting is not being invited. Britany, the 22 year old intern who can bounce a quarter off her ass, IS.
We know what the men want: they want to fuck Britany. They do not want to fuck Lois. Methinks this is the biggest source of resentment: that God gave Britany a good ass to quarter ratio and didn't give it to Lois.
Why is Britany there? A multitude of reasons, not limited to
-She might want to have a little sexual fun. It's POSSIBLE.
-and SHE might want to be noticed by upper management. But let's be clear: everyone is well aware that the ability to bounce a quarter off your ass is not exactly CEO material AND that Dwayne, her fellow intern, doesn't have this opportunity...mostly.
This is the Weinstein deal done non criminally and Libertarian. No one has to come. We are stuck on that rather...inconvenient aspects of the Weinstein debacle: the girls know going in what is required. They know they may profit from it (Hey, Free three day vacation in Cabo on a YACHT! Some girls will fuck just for that opportunity, much less job benefits)
And they do it for whatever reasons they want to use ("I wonder what it's like screwing a billionaire")
Regarding Ms. Althouse's 'consent' analysis: The invitation to an ORGY IS the consent question! At that point, you are in or you are not. This dithering she champions is classic cake eating, leading a man down the primrose path and smugly slamming the gate in his face when one arrives at the bower. The men, well aware of this aspect of female psychology, are making things explicit...and to the ditherers, rather uncomfortable.
That way, they have correctly and rigorously limited the invitations to the willing, not the 'maybes'.
It's like that one episode of Sex in the City, where the hetero brunette girl kept crashing Lesbian parties, wanting all the social support, networking connections, advice, and sheer pleasure of upper class living...but she didn't want to lick a pussy to get it.
She was booted out too. There is no difference between the two parties.
I was working for a Japanese boss who was trying to assimilate into American culture. If I had played by his cultural rules, I would have been using my engineering degree to direct traffic at an escalator in a department store. He was OK with my beating him in a golfing two-some. As a matter of fact, he invited me to beat him again, and I obliged. It's not always our job to bend ourselves to someone else's cultural on our home ground. He wasn't a "guest". He lived and worked here in our culture.
He IS a germophobe, btb, which does not seem to lend itself to participating in orgies...
That is probably why he is so healthy. Lots of stories in the Lewandowski book.
Considering the number of haters on the left, it just proves that ill wishes don't work.
Ron Winkleheimer: "The Culture" is reduced to judging something only on whether or not it is discriminatory towards some protected class or another.
The Culture is what fills the void when a culture has been bled out and gutted.
At that point terms like "discrimination" and "equality" can be pruned into etiolated Newspeak topiary.
(Stop me before I force unwilling metaphors into unnatural congress again.)
It's not always our job to bend ourselves to someone else's cultural on our home ground. He wasn't a "guest". He lived and worked here in our culture.
My wife, when she was young, was a very pretty blond. One day she was at the yacht harbor and a group of Japanese business men were visiting and they asked if they could have their picture taken with her. She agreed and each then had a photo taken by one of the others standing at the yacht harbor with a pretty blond,. I'm sure it was a cultural thing about blonds.
She is now a pretty 75 year old.
I didn't read the article. An orgy among tech nerds. Not necessarily self contradictory but almost certainly self defeating. Whatever dynamics that causes you to prosper in the tech world will not cause you to exult at an orgy.........The first episode of this season's Black Mirror is extremely witty and twisty. A tech nerd creates a virtual reality paradise for himself. It's based on Star Wars, and he's Captain Kirk. The downside of encoding yourself into a computer simulation is that you don't get to keep your genitals when you pass into that world. Technically it's impossible to sexually harass a woman in that brave, new world. They could do another episode to show how women would prosper there......After Harvey Weinstein, all sex scandals seem dull, flat, and profitless. You've got to give him credit. The guy knew how to produce a sex scandal.
We never held meetings at the local day spa although it would have been a very relaxing environment to do it in.
What a coincidence. SV leaders don't hold meetings at orgies either.
I'm not sure why women should be expected to set up a parallel universe in order to participate at the higher levels in the business world
This is not the request. They are expected to live in the same universe with the 95% of men who aren't participating in work orgies and to recognize that they deserve no special elevation over this group.
Assuming these orgies actually happen, it is not the end all/be all that business is or is not conducted there.
Simply being there or not being there will have career ramifications.
Eleanor: It's not always our job to bend ourselves to someone else's cultural on our home ground. He wasn't a "guest". He lived and worked here in our culture.
I absolutely agree with this. Our ranch, our rules. (I recall a work situation where a pious proto-SJW HR drone suggested that the women our group - all of whom dressed appropriately by company/American standards of modesty - should wear long pants/dresses and long sleeves (in a sweltering summer) to show "respect" for a worker from one of the Gulf States, rotating through our site. He got an immediate earful from me on whose responsibility it was to do the "respecting" in this situation, fortunately backed up by the PTBs. Jaysus, some people...)
But it's not as if inevitably "excluding" networking/socializing norms aren't part of American business culture, too.
1/3/18, 10:04 AM 
Eleanor
Men with very high positions in major corporations have the good sense to let their bosses win. Not for the obvious reason but for the fact that a low handicap suggests you have been playing too much goddamn golf and not putting in the hours at work. See? It isn't about foreign culture it is about human nature.
And I would certainly hope that when you are at the day spa with your female colleagues you aren't discussing business or scheming to subvert your male bosses.
Assuming these orgies actually happen
You have young males with boatloads of money, easy access to hookers, and a distinct lack of wisdom. Yeah, I'm thinking they happen. While I can't find any links to the story I saw about a bunch of Silicon Valley execs getting busted for hiring prostitutes, searching on "silicon valley prostitutes" does bring up plenty of links to articles about prostitution being a thriving business there.
Who cares about the sex lives of people they don't even know?
Uh, lots of people do. Have you noticed how many tabloids are displayed in the grocery lines? Do you look at the covers?
Its not that business as such is conducted at these things (and I speak of golf, not orgies; in this matter I suspect industries vary as to the favored diversions); but socialization happens. People talk shop, people talk people. So and so favors such and such, absurd isn't it? Did you hear about x, I think you should have a talk with y, etc.
People meet people who can connect them with people, and the golf course is a filter that lets in the sort of people one might consider dealing with.
I've always hated golf, but I am sure I would be much richer if that hadn't been the case. I have self-filtered out.
There's a reason golf has become a big business in East Asia.
I suspect there is a similar reason golf has been in decline in the US for the last decade. I think its a social indicator for economic dynamism. I don't think its been replaced by a different venue for the same sort of social, but significant activity.
And I dont think sex orgies have replaced golf, even in Silicon Valley.
There is a reason why Chinese businessmen were not happy at being kept out of the Raffles Hotel bar. That was 60 years ago. No sex, business.
The ironic thing is that the feminism in the 1960's was a big part of why those things went on back then. And feminism now is a big part of the reason that these men need to be shamed for doing it now.
Buwaya
You are right, of course, about the very real social interaction from these outings whether they be golf or strip clubs or hanging late at the bar. I have mentored a few women who have been curious about ways to get ahead in my field of finance and I have urged them to hang with the guys at the bars until the very last one throws in the towel and then to be the first in the office the next day . There are many ways to earn respect in the business world and this is one of them.
I don't like golf and generally speaking don't like golfers. Takes too much time and rank amateurs take the game too seriously. I have been more inclined to squash and tennis and long distance running with business associates.
I suspect there is a similar reason golf has been in decline in the US for the last decade. I think its a social indicator for economic dynamism. I don't think its been replaced by a different venue for the same sort of social, but significant activity.
Golf isn't a game just played by the rich anymore, especially in the U.S.
People meet people who can connect them with people, and the golf course is a filter that lets in the sort of people one might consider dealing with.
People do business with people they like. And people like people who are like them.
James James: nice Seattle First Avenue bav. Lived on the that street for a few years and met many of your characters there. Did my first visual sociology there and have many portraits. This story reminded me, with the Professor's Choice, of several who were able to find a ticket that did not return. Of course, their drama transferred to new places and other streets.
I understand why these guys do what they do; there is not simply the sex, there is the cult quality. After all, Orgies were originally linked to cult worship of some sort of deities. There is the derived Power that emerges from such group and women, as well as men, are subject to the powerful draw of the contagion of transcendence that comes from these acts.
In my experience, the extreme Left's derision of people with religious values (the modern Heathen who worship The Old God) is because they KNOW what they due in THEIR cult of truth--they know what Truth feels like.
At the end of the day it’s about trying to hook a rich guy. Sad. For a bunch of reasons.
The key aspect of this is one of TRUST.
Recalling those episodes of 'Mad Men', those 'business meetings' were 'benefits' for the business men being courted. They were trying to 'buy' their business in a highly personal way. "Make the client happy."
But also, by these shared intense and slightly raunchy experiences, they made themselves socially vulnerable to the other. None of the men going to Bubbles Lounge would want their wives to discover their activities. So they 'forced trust'
'Will you keep my secrets?'
That is the question and the 'benefit' that these women are getting. If the boss can trust you when he is vulnerable...if you make some extra effort...you have a better chance to advance.
And it's not 'just' a sex thing.
When Don Draper 'fixed' Peggy's pregnancy, when Peggy bailed Don's chippy out of that car accident, when Joan repeatedly allowed herself to be fucked up the ass without telling the wife...all these things formed 'trust' bonds.
Are you telling me, Eleanor, that women cannot form these 'trust' bonds without going to strip clubs? That has not been my experience at all.
And frankly, sex is a short circuit to 'trust bonds' quickly.
By the way, Eleanor: no one ever gave me an interview or a sales meeting because I had a nice rack.
Women have benefited from that whole 'sexual allure' thing. It is a currency that men have almost no access to.
So if you can't go to a strip club...I also can't benefit from a low cut top. So we are even.
Golf has been suffering, I read, for the fact that it is so difficult.
I fear this might be an indication that Americans have gotten used to "simulated sports" like fantasy football and do not go out and spend hours practicing. When I was 15 and my father had a golf driving range, I would hit 500 balls and play 36 hols every summer day.
I see an awful lot of sedentary hobbies among kids today.
My grandchildren all play sports but they are organized sports. I'm not sure it is the same as play in the 1950s.
Golf isn't a game just played by the rich anymore, especially in the U.S.
It has been losing popularity. Fewer and fewer people are taking it up. I know of two country clubs that have been sold and turned into subdivisions within 5 - 10 miles of my house in the last couple of years.
Golf has been suffering, I read, for the fact that it is so difficult.
Fewer and fewer people are taking up guitar because mastering it is hard. They can play Guitar Master instead. Its the same thing.
But then, are we not back to the problem of the women who watched Louis C.K. masturbate? I don't see them getting labeled voyeurs.
Not to put too fine a point on it, Ms. Althouse, but from what your coverage said about Louis, but he ASKED for consent before he did that.
So the women complaining about it later...um...not striking me as 'victims'. Being uncomfortable is not being a victim and they had the opportunity to say 'no'.
They just didn't want to face the consequences (WHAT consequences?) of saying 'no'.
That is a lack of courage and character, not being victimized.
If 'no means no' (and I agree with such a statement) then 'yes' needs to mean 'yes' and not 'yes until I decide to gut you like a fish at some time years from now'.
THIS, more than anything, is destroying gender trust: the 'yes' takeback.
As in all real estate it is a matter of supply and demand. In the late nineties there was an explosion of golf course development to the point where the expectation must have been that every man woman and child in the country was going to play two rounds a week. At one point every major suburban housing development included a golf course with the fairways lined with homes which were meant to fetch a higher price than those not fronting on the course (or courses). Some of those courses have been returned to green spaces and the resales of homes on those open areas are fetching higher prices than before. Tastes change.
Golf is hard and takes a long time to go around. You can't do it with young children or grandchildren.
William: The first episode of this season's Black Mirror is extremely witty and twisty. A tech nerd creates a virtual reality paradise for himself. It's based on Star Wars, and he's Captain Kirk.
That has the potential to be a much better story than the one they actually made!
All the kids learned instruments, the boys guitar (metal), the girl is a wild talent who can learn anything but can stick to nothing. She has done piano, violin, viola, mandolin, ukulele, banjo and I dont know what else - accordion and concertina. My wife also plays guitar (acoustic), ukulele, etc. They must have got this all from her side, because on mine we have always been musically hopeless.
True about kids not learning guitar, or any other instrument.
After reading that article, I'm filled with scorn, not outrage. What a bunch of silly, immature children. They think they invented eating gummy bears for dinner every night, and then congratulate themselves for their "innovation." Give me a break and enjoy your lifetime Valtrex prescriptions.
Not to put too fine a point on it, Ms. Althouse, but from what your coverage said about Louis, but he ASKED for consent before he did that.
Apparently good sense is simply gone. Here's a protip. No woman wants to watch a man masturbate. And if they did, it would not be someone who looks like Louis C.K. So, if they said yes, it was because they felt they had no choice. And you may not have noticed, but women are usually much weaker, physically, than men. So, even if they don't know if the guy, who is engaging in abnormal, mentally deficient behavior, might hit them, they have to consider it.
So, just in case Louis CK is reading this, my advice to you is to get some therapy. Because you got some real issues dude. That behavior is totally not cool.
A few months ago the company where my husband works sent a foursome to a golf charity tournament. The foursome was made up of two men and two women. A few days before the event one of the women had to drop out, meetings or something had come up. My husband needed to fill the foursome out and wanted another woman.
He couldn't find one. He had a large group of men essentially bouncing on their toes shouting, "Pick me, pick me!" But he couldn't find another woman that wanted to play.
My husband started taking my son to the driving range when he was four. From there he started taking him to executive courses to play during off hours. JG traveled a lot and it was a nice way for them to spend time together. No TV, electronic games, phones... It also gave me a nice chunk of alone time. The two of them just got back from a four day trip to Bandon Dunes.
"You can't do it with young children or grandchildren."
I started when I was 9. That is a very good age for a motivated kid who has access to a course.
I think Tiger Woods started when he was 4 which is a bit out there.
The level of insight into this behavior in the linked article is low. The theory put forward by the author (and several of the women she quotes, and at least one man) is that men who were nerdy and didn't have sex in their teens will, if they become rich later on, indulge in this behavior because they are making up for lost time.
The implications of this are:
* A man who becomes rich later on, who lives and works in Silicon Valley, but who had plenty of sex in his teenage years, would not be interested in this behavior
* A man who grows up wealthy and non-nerdy, and who had plenty of sex in his teen years, in any environment (city, type of business, etc.) will not be interested in this in his 30s or later on, because he was not sex-starved as a teenager
Really? If parties like this are available, I imagine that if you took 100 men who are 30-and-over and invited them, having prescreened them for the amount of sex they had as teenagers, you would not be able to successfully predict who would say "yes" to the party by knowing how much sex they had as teenagers.
"The female guests have different qualifications. If you are attractive, willing, and (usually) young, you needn’t worry about your résumé or bank account."
Rich guys fucking whores. Who knew?
Ron Winkleheimer,
Nice way to try to change the subject. The issue isn't if this was creepy behavior. I don't know what he was thinking. As you correctly point out, no one wants to see a man jerk off, nor are they likely to want to find CK sexually alluring (though, he WAS married)
But again: if they were creeped out, they should have said no. They didn't. They said YES.
As a man, he acts upon the information he is given.
One of the downsides of being 'strong and independent' means that you need to own personal responsibility. It means you need to have license, courage and character. These women not only aren't, but are also betraying the intimacy of the act.
So Jane Doe, the CK girls, and other women who said 'yes' but now want a pound of flesh are teaching a small lesson in creepiness, but a larger lesson in trustworthiness.
No means no, yes sometimes means no, and yes may mean 'I will gut you later'.
Hmm. I can't see a downside here.
"If I had played by his cultural rules, I would have been using my engineering degree to direct traffic at an escalator in a department store."
Right, because the Japanese culture is basically rural Afghanistan, and women aren't allowed to have careers outside of being shop girls. That's a totally nuanced, accurate, and non-insulting view of their culture. I'm sure any problems you had with that guy had nothing to do with him perceiving your ignorance and racism.
Apparently good sense is simply gone. Here's a protip. No woman wants to watch a man masturbate.
Some do, some don't. Do men like to watch women masturbate?
Nice way to try to change the subject.
Actually, no. I directly addressed the subject.
Some do, some don't.
No, no they don't. For one thing, it takes the attention off of them.
FIDO: Not to put too fine a point on it, Ms. Althouse, but from what your coverage said about Louis, but he ASKED for consent before he did that.
So the women complaining about it later...um...not striking me as 'victims'. Being uncomfortable is not being a victim and they had the opportunity to say 'no'.
All right, fine, let's assume that failure of character (cowardice) is the only reason women who didn't want to watch Louis CK wank, did.
So let's agree that they shouldn't have any legal redress against him - no lawsuits, no damages, no shell-outs for the "OMG I'm scarred for life, I'm suing to have my PTSD therapy paid for", etc. And we all get to sneer at them for being such pathetic candy-asses.
So now that we've disposed of the non-victim's poor characters, let's do the same for the non-criminal. Can we get all judgmental on him, too? Would anybody have a problem with the full force of strictly social opprobrium being brought down on him, including social exile/attendant loss of income, etc.? If not, why not? Why shouldn't people have to own up to the consequences of having taken the opportunity to give an un-coerced "yes" to indulging in disgusting behavior?
The slimeballery of LCK's acts being, of course, independent of the character of the non-victims. I ask because I'm lmao at the pecksniffian tone here: "Why, Mr. CK did all that should be required of a gentleman, he asked for consent! What more needs to be said?":
The issue isn't if this was creepy behavior. I don't know what he was thinking.
You have to know what he was thinking to decide if it was creepy behavior? Lol.
Here, let me help you out: LCK is a fucked-up slimeball. You are correct to maintain that his slimeballery is irrelevant to the narrow point of his "victims'" moral agency, which is the only point of interest to you here. But he is, as a matter of fact, a fucked-up POS.
We can talk about more than one "issue" at a time, you know. It isn't "changing the subject".
But again: if they were creeped out, they should have said no. They didn't. They said YES.
Yes, that's one interesting aspect of the issue. Believing that it is the only issue of interest here, is, frankly, fucking retarded.
As a man, he acts upon the information he is given.
Yes, he accepts the "information he is given" as a green light to indulge in fucked-up slimeball acts.
As a man, he made a choice to be a slimeball. Some people are interested in that question - what's with the fucked-up slimeballery? You're apparently interested only in a very narrow set of circumstances following upon that choice, in which the moral agency of the man disappears into "consent", and nothing he does is any longer of moral interest.
S'OK, people have different interests. Some of us adults just find it funny to see you set up LCK's behavior as essentially blameless from every angle - he's just an innocent guy seeking information from women before he engages in morally neutral behavior, and then "acting upon information he is given".
(Now taking bets on the odds of FIDO construing everything I've said here as a a defense of snowflakes, and repeating BUT THEY HAD A CHOICE AND THEY SAID YES at length. He has form.)
I find the premise that (40-year old) rich teenage dorks having orgies is de riguer to business in Silicon Valley to be completely worth mocking. Fueled with the lame excuse that "in order to have creative business ideas you have to be open to all kinds of experiences." Which is moronic in its causality, much less its correlation.
Those fellas like Whitney, the Wright Brothers, Edison, Bell, Morse, Tesla, Ford, Rockefeller, Sears, Hewlet & Packard (etc) couldn't possibly have come up with their revolutionary ideas in the stultifying morality of their era. They must have been time travelers who surreptitiously attend these SV orgies. /sarc.
Clearly, these guys are using what they've got to make up for lost time: their money, their status, their power--which signal their alpha status. Which women are attracted to. It's called hypergamy, and it is evolutionary, baked into our DNA. Just as men seeking young, tight, attractive women is evolutionary. Women seek alpha men. Men seek out female signals of good motherhood (even if all they want to do is to f*ck it). And trust me, any smart man would never settle down with a slut who goes to these orgies. (But then, I conclude that many of these participant are idiots.)
The premise that women who attend these orgies are (all) cash-paid prostitutes also fails a sniff test. Some careerist GoGirrrlz have similar prurient interests as men, and loose moral boundaries. They ply their wares to try to get some of that alpha-male action. Sometimes hoping to snag an alpha male. Wash, rinse repeat. Riding that c*ck carousel until they have struck out so many times they've lost their virtue, hit the wall, and settle down to become bitter cat ladies.
This is all pretty standard human drama among those who worship the worldly ways and have not developed a morality, or been educated in the morality of the Invisible Sky Gods they love to mock.
Kep Hartman
Hmmm..was Hef ever seen in a bunny suit?
I remember Carter being pursued by an aggressive bunny.
Damn bunnies.
<
As Founder X puts it, “We’ll say whether some girl is a fucking gold digger or not, so we know who to avoid.”
When I tell her this, Ava, a young female entrepreneur, rolls her eyes. According to Ava, who asked me to disguise her real identity and has dated several founders, it’s the men, not the women, who seem obsessed with displays of wealth and privilege. She tells of being flown to exotic locations, put up in fancy hotels, and other ways rich men have used their money to woo her. Backing up Ava’s view are the profiles one finds on dating apps where men routinely brag about their tech jobs or start-ups. In their online profiles, men are all but saying, “Hello, would you like to come up to my loft and see my stock options?”
In Ava’s experience, however, once men like this land a woman, they are quick to throw her back. After a few extravagant dates, Ava says, she will initiate a conversation about where the tryst is going. The men then end things, several using the same explanation. “They say, ‘I’m still catching up. I lost my virginity when I was 25,’ ” Ava tells me. “And I’ll say, ‘Well, you’re 33 now, are we all caught up yet?’ In any other context, [these fancy dates] would be romantic, but instead it’s charged because no one would fuck them in high school. . . . I honestly think what they want is a do-over because women wouldn’t bone them until now.
--
She sounds pretty crest-fallen about it.
After lowering herself to go on a few extravagant dates, it seems impossible that she isn't worthy.
This type of representation is he said/she said..minus the former.
Setting up a 'parallel universe' as you call it is no different than what these guys did when the universe they inhabit didn't previously exist.
You can be a Chuck or you can be an Ann...
Angel Dyne.
I am analyzing two issues: Trust and Consent. I obviously explained myself poorly.
You assume I am pro-scumbag when in fact, I am pro Trust and have a rather hard line on consent.
So want to throw shade on LCK and the Orgy Boys? Have at it. I am not so prudish as to think that simply wanting to enjoy a lot of sex while enjoying a lot of money is EVIL, though it is a bit hollow and short sighted. As far as LCK, I see him as a pretty broken person who doesn't have the juice to get a girl to go all the way with him and has to plead to just be able to jerk off watching a woman. How desperate and lonely is he as a person? This is not an act of power ala Weinstein.
But now the monster is destroyed and the Village of Women can rejoice. Hallelujah!
I simply don't like, hate, absolutely abhor the principle that a lover would somehow, decades later, after CONSENSUALLY enjoyed something with a man, decide to destroy him for whatever reason and she gets away with accolades while he is left ruined.
I don't see this as a trust building exercise between the genders and it will certainly inhibit relationships in the future, which are already hard enough to form and maintain.
I am curious about your response.
The party scene is now so pervasive that women entrepreneurs say turning down invitations relegates them to the uncool-kids’ table.
This position encapsulates the writer's mindset. It's insulting that women aren't inherently elevated them above non-elite males.
“There is this undercurrent of a feeling like you’re prostituting yourself in order to get ahead because, let’s be real, if you’re dating someone powerful, it can open doors for you.
Here she notes women are seeking advantage through sex but falls back on the absurd claim they are the victims rather than those trying to corrupt the system.
Great companies are built in the office, with hard work put in by a team. The problem is that weekend views of women as sex pawns and founder hounders can’t help but affect weekday views of women as colleagues, entrepreneurs, and peers.
Here she complains that success should be determined on the very basis her victims refuse to accept by the people she derides as un-cool and demands to be perceived as superior to.
What a logical mess.
Oh, for heaven's sake. These people can't even be depraved properly. At least Caligula had some fun with the concept.
In Ava’s experience, however, once men like this land a woman, they are quick to throw her back. After a few extravagant dates, Ava says, she will initiate a conversation about where the tryst is going. The men then end things, several using the same explanation. “They say, ‘I’m still catching up. I lost my virginity when I was 25,’ ” Ava tells me. “And I’ll say, ‘Well, you’re 33 now, are we all caught up yet?’ In any other context, [these fancy dates] would be romantic, but instead it’s charged because no one would fuck them in high school. . . . I honestly think what they want is a do-over because women wouldn’t bone them until now.”
Which raises the question of why she isn't dating the 25 year olds.
Oh, right. Because they're poor.
The women who do say yes to these parties rarely see a big business payoff. “There is a desire to be included and invited to these kinds of things and sometimes it felt like it was productive to go and you could get ahead faster by cultivating relationships in this way,” one female tech worker told me. “Over time, I realized that it’s false advertising and it’s not something women should think is a way to get ahead. It’s very risky—once you’re in that circle, once you decide you want to play the game, you can’t back out. If you really believe that’s going to get you to a serious place in your career, that’s delusion.”
How deluded do you have to be to show up at an orgy hoping to network?
There is this undercurrent of a feeling like you’re prostituting yourself in order to get ahead because, let’s be real, if you’re dating someone powerful, it can open doors for you. And that’s what women who make the calculation to play the game want, but they don’t know all the risks associated with it,” she said. “If you do participate in these sex parties, don’t ever think about starting a company or having someone invest in you. Those doors get shut. But if you don’t participate, you’re shut out. You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
It's not an undercurrent.
I think that drug fueled orgies are incredibly skeevy. But if you get an invitation to an orgy, and you actually go, then what are you complaining about?
If you go to an orgy where the other guests are far richer and more powerful than you, you are not a guest, you are the entertainment. Don't these women know anyone who can explain this concept to them? Where are their mothers?
Ann Althouse said: You don't "forbid" it with a top-down rule. You change the culture so that men either don't want to do it or want other things more than they want that.
How about changing the culture so that the women won't agree to participate? No, wait, can't do that!
Genuinely: what the hell does "slut shaming" mean? If some cheerleader wants to hang the football team we all have to applaud that choice--she's "embracing her sexuality" and any prude who objects is a sex negative regressive patriarchy supporting rape culture enabler. These rich successful guys invite women to parties where everyone understands there is likely to be drug use and casual sex and you are telling me I am supposed to condemn them men's behavior and see the women who willingly participated as victims?!
And this...this is feminism? Geez, "pathetic" doesn't really cover it.
Then old joke's punchline that "we're just haggling over the price" seems appropriate --if the case hinges on some regret that they didn't get a better price I have to admit I just don't have much sympathy.
Women who are willing to act like whores for rich and powerful men are complaining that rich and powerful men then see them as, and treat them like, little more than whores.
And these women want my sympathy!
Start your own company, ladies. (I started to write "start your own fucking companies already" but on reflection it sounds like they already tried and failed at that.)
Skanks, hookers, hangers-on, groupies, camp followers and all the things that make me go Squirt! after which I lose interest and go home.
Please remind me again why you care about these people, professor. They certainly are not "the backbone of society" any more than the much-maligned approve stooges, are they? they seem, in fact, fitting analogs --being careless with their youthful sexual desirability (instead of genetic material) and being taken advantage of by unscrupulous members of the opposite sex.
Why would you be any more concerned for these women than for those stoohes??
Equality, remember?
But I never forget to squirt the area with hydrogen peroxide.
I dump a bottle on myself if I ever have to do a dem.
Which is every time.
I do a dem.
Not many good people hangin' around at night.
Especially dems.
Ha!
Inga would be a pity friendship.
Ha!
Pedro, I'd have to subcontract to the Zetas.
Ha!
I'm bad.
Be sure to gargle with Hydrogen Peroxide.
Don't forget to use a toothbrush.
Remove those wiggly teeth.
Become human again.
See you in 10 years.
I'll still be here.
You won't.
Ha ha.
Pedro and Inga sleep fitfully until the morning talking points arrive, demanding that they wake up and start the manure spreading.
It's a job.
The fact is this behavior is universal found throughout the human experience for pretty much the same reasons. It ain't going away and there will always be players. Consider the wise words of Saint Amy of Winehouse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=175&v=iVaqQe3V498
I find it pathetic (and so did Amy) that when the expected shelf-life of bimbos reach their term, they "whine" and state, Not Me, Not Me.
It is this willingness to be used/abused that fuels the predators who seek out such people. After all, it is such "cash and prizes" that sweep up the Fan Boys and Nerds making up for lost time.
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