"They either beg for some expressions of humanity, moments of tenderness, or they flee by sea or land because they have lost everything, primarily their dignity and their rights."
Said Pope Francis.
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I reckon some cultures aren't so equal, No?
Sorry, a little too snarky for Monday morn.
Slavery and human trafficking are real problems. Not so much in the West, but in 3rd world countries. I would like the Pope to FOCUS on these type of real problems, rather than stray into abstract problems like capitalism in America or global warming.
Black Lives Matter is going to be upset with him after they assumed he was an ally.
Meanwhile, in the next country over, a whole people is being enslaved by mad socialists. Which the pope very gingerly described as a grave crisis. It's easier to chide whiteys for slavery, or Europeans for not being nice to "migrants," or Christians for being mean to Muzzies, or Trump for being Trump.
Many countries have accused Mr. Maduro of running a dictatorship, and in Venezuela, many Catholics have urged Francis to join the denunciations. On Sunday, however, he avoided placing any blame.
Pope Francis has a bit of an affinity for communism, so I'm guessing he's loath to strongly denounce it's most clear exponents and draw attention to its failings.
So whitey got down to Colombia?
@Bay Area Guy, not at all too snarky
But what about Climate Change? Is the Jesuit's Pope of the World popping off again?
Let your heart not be troubled Pope Francisco, antifa is coming to the rescue, any day now.
Remove some monuments. That will fix it, American style.
Nonpossible! Everyone knows slavery was invented by the United States of America and no other nation or people ever, ever, practiced slavery. Sure, old-timey books sometimes mention slavery in other contexts. But, just as all rape isn't rape-rape, not all slavery is slavery-slavery. In those other contexts, 'slavery' meant working more than a 40 hour work-week or working for less than $15/hour. Those scenes on the Roman galley in Ben Hur? Those were propaganda to make us think our great national guilt was anything but unique.
Millions?
So dumb
Making captives submit to be their Slaves is the goal of ALL MUSLIM SUPREMACISTS.
Unknown Inga knows that the number of slaves in Central America, Africa, the Middle East and Asia is well below the threshold we should be concerned about.
Plus, none of those slavers read Breitbart, so how bad can they really be.
Well, "whitey" certainly did get down to Colombia.
Colombia 's overall racial mix (genetic admixture) according to the last study I saw was @74% "white", 18% Indian and 7% African.
Of course this is in a predominantly mestizo population, so there are few pure whites. Shakira isnt too far out of the ordinary - but, of course, she dyes her hair.
Recent article from the Guardian on Slavery in Mauritania:
US warned Mauritania’s ‘total failure’ on slavery should rule out trade benefits
Pope Francis is a dope. He means well, or thinks he means well, but claiming there are millions of chattel slaves in Colombia only brings the anti-slavery cause into disrepute.
"Here in Colombia and in the world..." The guy isn't merely maladroit in his native tongue, he's a fucking coward. Anybody familiar with the truth knows that the vast majority of those millions of slaves being bought and sold are being bought and sold in countries where Islam holds sway over the ideals of Western civilization. In the matter of slavery, Muslim-dominated states are basically in the position of Western nations in 200 years ago — banned is most places, permitted in others, and winked at in many more.
@ Bay Area Guy - Those folks who want us to believe every culture is equal don't believe it. Why else would they constantly tell us ours is terrible?
Yes - the state of the world is pretty hellish.
Ever go to a Doctors without Borders seminar? We have it pretty good here. No matter what whiny spoiled leftists say.
@Jeff Weimer,
Heh, good point! All cultures are equal, dammit!@!! But white privileged, capitalist, patriarchal, heteronormative culture in America sucks.
Quaestor is right, as usual. And so is Bannon.
Sebastian said...
Meanwhile, in the next country over, a whole people is being enslaved by mad socialists.
True, communism 'n' socialism are forms of slavery or serfdom, but are there actually slaves, in the regular sense, in Colombia?
The Pope and the article imply there are but don't actually say so; google doesn't seem to be aware of any slaves in Colombia.
Commie pope only cares up until he cannot mention the real culprits: Communism, socialism, fascism, despotism, totalitarianism and Islamism.
Venezuela is in contrast about @60% white, 23%Indian and 17%African by admixture.
Venezuela was usually more prosperous than Colombia historically, but most of that was due to natural resources especially petroleum.
Venezuela was far more prosperous than Columbia but, like all Spanish colonies, the society was split between very rich and very, very poor. I think, from what I have read, Venezuela was actually pretty good for middle class, better then Mexico.
This agenda seems more appropriate for the Pope than global warming or American politics.
I've got a great idea. Simply tear all of the historical statues in the world down, and all vestiges of slavery——whether from modern times or from years ago——will disappear. Right?
Michael K
The middle and upper middle class of Venezuela relocated to Miami and Panama City over the last decade. People,alas, vote with their feet.
Mexico has been reported as being somewhere around 50-55% white, 45%+ Indian, and some very small % black.
There are other estimates. This series is very conservative on the white% -
http://humanvarieties.org/2014/10/19/racial-ancestry-in-the-americas-part-1-genomic-continental-racial-admixture-estimate-and-validation/
That particular Pope has so little credibility that, while I know slavery is still practiced, it is hard to get worked up about anything he says. If anybody else has a real plan, I am happy to listen.
I thought Mexico was c. 70 percent mestizo and the rest divided between roughly evenly between white European (creole) and pure Indian, plus maybe 1 percent or less black. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Watching Mexican soap operas, however, one gets the impression that Mexico is 99 percent white (housekeepers are pure Indian) and that all are the progeny of Julio Iglesias and Sophia Vergara.
Venezuela was far more prosperous than Columbia but, like all Spanish colonies, the society was split between very rich and very, very poor.
Not quite all.
Chile had a thriving middle class before Allende. It's my understanding that the Chilean middle class is making a comeback.
Argentina also -- before the deluge. Not anymore, sadly.
In Uruguay the middle class is doing quite well. In fact, Uruguay might be one of the best places in the world to live. I have often thought of checking it out, but probably never will.
Peru I'm not sure about, but I thought it was on the upswing after smashing Shining Path.
"I thought Mexico was c. 70 percent mestizo"
Yes it is. The question however gets to how white/indian are the mestizos.
Or for that matter, just how Indian are the Indians, as they are mixed also, to a degree.
Thats why the population admixture studies are interesting.
Difficult to do, especially getting representative samples.
"Watching Mexican soap operas, however, one gets the impression that Mexico is 99 percent white " - indeed. And a lot of the actors in those aren't Mexican.
Sofia Vergara = Colombiana
She was in some Mexican TV also, including at least one telenovela.
"Argentina also -- before the deluge."
In Argentina the deluge happened long ago. Or rather, it was no deluge, simply the paralyzing result of a government-centric economy.
Just a figure of speech, buwaya.
Sofia Vergara = Colombiana
Yes, I know. My point being that Mex soap opera women all seem to resemble her.
Meant as a joke.
The question however gets to how white/indian are the mestizos.
Or for that matter, just how Indian are the Indians, as they are mixed also, to a degree.
When your Mexican daughter marries a light-complected Mexican man, he becomes white, pure white. By an act of God, perhaps.
A proper admixture analysis of the US, and especially California, would be fascinating.
At least bears still shit in the woods.
"When your Mexican daughter marries a light-complected Mexican man, he becomes white, pure white. By an act of God, perhaps."
By social convention. And the light-complexioned Mexican man would have been considered white before marriage anyway. The US one-drop rule was always ridiculous.
Panama has been remarkably prosperous and peaceful since the U,S. military removed Noriega from power.
My granddaughter, who is half white, one quarter black and one quarter Filipino is marrying a man of Mexican heritage. Whatever their offspring will be called, they will be beautiful.
"My granddaughter, who is half white, one quarter black and one quarter Filipino is marrying a man of Mexican heritage. "
The great-grand kids will be the entire human race right there.
By social convention. And the light-complexioned Mexican man would have been considered white before marriage anyway. The US one-drop rule was always ridiculous.
You do understand that I was paraphrasing a joke often told in Mexico, by Mexicans?
"I was paraphrasing a joke often told in Mexico, by Mexicans?"
DNA analysis is interesting. The Mexican/Indian population has Spanish Y chromosomes and Indian mitochondrial DNA.
History right there in the DNA.
I wish the Pope would stick to preaching the Gospel, something he is supposed to know about.
"DNA analysis is interesting. The Mexican/Indian population has Spanish Y chromosomes and Indian mitochondrial DNA.
History right there in the DNA."
Yes it is, isn't it? That's exactly what happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonor_Cort%C3%A9s_Moctezuma
Doña Leonor Cortés Moctezuma (born c. 1528 – before 1594) was the out of wedlock daughter of Hernán Cortés, conquistador of Mexico, and Doña Isabel Moctezuma the eldest daughter of the Aztec Emperor Moctezuma II. She was acknowledged by her father and married Juan de Tolosa, one of the discoverers of the silver mines in Zacatecas.
Repeat a few hundred thousand times by the more humble.
@Mockturtle,
"My granddaughter, who is half white, one quarter black and one quarter Filipino is marrying a man of Mexican heritage. Whatever their offspring will be called, they will be beautiful."
I have no doubt!
And what the Left does not understand is that most people in modern America do not care about race -- they care about culture and manners.
most people in modern America do not care about race
Well, they do care about heritage, i.e., ethnicity -- at least in my neck of the woods. E.g, if you're of Irish descent, you care . . . a lot. It can get mightily clannish, that caring. A few weeks ago I went to one of the old Italian restaurants in Chicago's Little Italy (Taylor Street area), which is still very neighbor-hoody. I go up to the bar and this obviously Eye-talian fellow about my age turns to me and says, "Hey, I bet youse are Irish, South Side, am I right? What parish you from?" We fell to talkin' about Cat-lick stuff and such, and he immediately identifies himself as being from a certain parish which is still mostly Italian. He makes sure I know this. In a nice friendly sort of way.
Chicago is one of the last places in America where in certain neighborhoods (far south/southwest side, northwest side) first thing people still ask when you meet them is what parish are you from. Which is indicative of what baseball team you root for and what ethnicity you are. Less so than it used to be, sure, but still . . . Ethnic consciousness is still strong hereabouts, except among the Millenials, who have no sense of history or heritage, no appreciation of it.
"The old days are gone forever," as Squire Will Danaher lamented.
"Ethnic consciousness is still strong hereabouts, except among the Millenials, who have no sense of history or heritage, no appreciation of it."
Because no-one teaches it, and its been erased from the culture.
Even that of the "minorities".
Mexico, for instance, possesses an ultra-dramatic founding story.
They don't bother to tell it.
After German/Irish, the most common hybrid in America is Italian/Irish. The Italians think the repressed Irish have self control, and the Irish think the emotional Italians are passionate. Most great loves are based on a misunderstanding..... On the lower east side in Manhattan, the Chinese and Pueto Rican neighborhoods were geographically adjacent.. Pueto Rican and Chinese went to school together, and some of them got married. You should see the kids. Some ordinary looking parents produced some extraordinarily beautiful progeny.
William -
German Irish is still the most common ethnic mix in Chicagoland, and northern Illinois for that matter. My mother was Irish, father was German, and often the twain did not meet. Except when it did. Sometimes disputatiously, sometimes sousingly, and to the tune of 4 kids (which was actually merely a typical medium-size family when I was growing up).
At Chicago's Irish-American Heritage Center a very large number of members have German surnames. A fair number of Polish surnames too, some Italian.
My mother was the prototype (or archetype?) for the character of Mary Kate Danaher in "The Quiet Man." My father predeceased her. He couldn't handle her anymore, so he left the world. Talk about your will to power. The Germans got nothin' on the Irish in that department, especially Irish women.
btw "sousingly" = rousingly plus soused.
The Italians think the repressed Irish have self control
Hah hah hah hah! You kiddin' me? The Italians must be the only people in the world who think the Irish have self control.
The Irish have been accused of many things, but possessing self control is not one of them. Not in my experience, at any rate.
Slavery is the result of bad luck. Or a Pope who values communal dependency and idelogical purity over the welfare of his people, even more strongly than ISIS. and his people to be slaves for the common good out of the goodness of their own hearts and shared values, So the perfect communist man is a catholic. How's his old Diocese in SA doing? So one more time. a writer that puts the best of the left to shame THIS ROBERT HEINLEIN QUOTE "Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”
The great-grand kids will be the entire human race right there.
Not quite. But my grandson from my other daughter is 3/4 white and 1/4 Korean.
Roughcoat: The Irish have been accused of many things, but possessing self control is not one of them. Not in my experience, at any rate.
It's all relative, Rough. The WASPs in my life (friends, spouse, in-laws) think I'm, er, "passionate" (which I'm pretty sure is the WASP euphemism for "dangerous lunatic"), but friends of other persuasions that I grew up with - Italians, Spaniards, Cubans, Jews - would often express exasperation with my, to them, diabolical cold-bloodedness.
Latin crazy is different from Irish crazy. Our style was great emotional reserve occasionally punctuated by spectacular (if harmless) displays of temper, while I found the exuberant emotionalism and non-stop drama of my friends' households exhausting at times.
George Spix: Sounds like I need to read Heinlein. Never have because I supposed him to write SciFi, a genre that doesn't interest me.
Chicago is one of the last places in America where in certain neighborhoods (far south/southwest side, northwest side) first thing people still ask when you meet them is what parish are you from.
Yup. My brother in law is more ethnic than I am but he was a Chicago cop for 20 years.
Affirmative Action made them even more ethnic. He has a Masters in Public Administration and could not make sergeant.
Lawsuit settlement by blacks made all spots subject to race.
We 'WASPs' get trashed quite regularly but I'm not sure why. It's not as though we chose to be born WASP. Heaven knows, I spent much of my childhood wanting to be Japanese. A blonde, blue-eyed Japanese. :-\
Science Fiction is not the genre you think it is!
Its vastly more varied than any other.
Gene Wolfe and E.E.Smith and Ray Bradbury and Jack Vance and Philip K Dick and Iain Banks are difficult to connect together as a genre.
Heinlein himself wrote a wide range of things, in many styles, voices and themes.
Thanks. Other then really old Russian and English novels, I seldom read fiction preferring history. But I've heard so many good things about Heinlein over the years--not the least of which is his egalitarian view of women--that I should give him a try. Where to start? [After The Peloponnesian War, that is.]
Bay Area Guy said...
"And what the Left does not understand is that most people in modern America do not care about race -- they care about culture and manners."
Yeah, right. What the Left *does* understand is that plenty of people on the right are so afraid of being called racist that they are willing to pretend race doesn't matter, even as they carefully arrange every last detail of their lives so as to avoid encountering the wrong race in the wrong place.
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is a usual recommendation for Heinlein.
It may be his best, but that is a personal thing.
It has many of his libertarian-ish aphorisms.
mocturtle: We 'WASPs' get trashed quite regularly but I'm not sure why. It's not as though we chose to be born WASP.
Be WASP and be proud, mock.
Jupiter: Yeah, right. What the Left *does* understand is that plenty of people on the right are so afraid of being called racist that they are willing to pretend race doesn't matter, even as they carefully arrange every last detail of their lives so as to avoid encountering the wrong race in the wrong place.
Plenty of people on the left, too, lol.
Germans and WASPs are the only people in America you can make fun of. Germans are the most assimilated ethnic group in America. Something to do with Hitler, I believe........I read a lot of history. Outside of the Thirty Years War and Hitler, German history isn't all that bad. Russian history, by way of contrast, is just one damned despotic asshole after another.
Latin crazy is different from Irish crazy.
True dat, and as you described. "[E]motional reserve occasionally punctuated by spectacular (if harmless) displays of temper" is a good description of Latin crazy.
Irish crazy is ... well, you know what Irish Alzheimers is? You forget everything except the grudges.
Germans are the most assimilated ethnic group in America. Something to do with Hitler, I believe
Not Hitler, Kaiser Bill. Check out "Burning Beethoven: The Eradication of German Culture in the United States during World War I" by Kirschbaum. Excellent book.
Also it had to do with the type of Germans who immigrated to America as part of the long ongoing German diaspora. They had no love or nostalgia for their various Vaterlands, which were dominated by a rotten but large aristocracy. They wanted to be Americans. They wanted to assimilate.
But, and I'm here to tell you, my dad's family remained very, very German within the confines of the family and their uber-German neighborhood in Aurora IL. Dad went to a Lutheran school K-8 where the language of instruction was German. But they were "good Germans," good Americans, salt-of-the-earth, very patriotic. Like Eisenhower, Nimitz, and so very many others.
As for my mother's family, the Irish, and not least my mother herself: fookin' nuts. I say that with affection. I take after that side more than the German, right down to the, er, problems with potcheen and such. Sure, we are as God made us.
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is a usual recommendation for Heinlein.
Thanks, buwaya!
""Here in Colombia and in the world, millions of people are still being sold as slaves.""
And that's just the victims of pedophile priests.
@ roughcoat: Thanks for an informative post. The book sounds like it's worth checking out......I'm also German/Irish. I went to Catholic schools, have red hair, and a semi-Irish name. I always took myself for Irish and so did most people. I know how to be Irish, but the cultural clues on how to be German are not much in evidence in NYC and its environs.........According to Ancestry.com, my mother's family was part Jewish. Maybe this gives me a pass on the Holocaust.. I've read that in 19th century German states there was a high rate of intermarriage and conversion among the Jews. Americans are definitely not Germanophiles, but prior to Hitler, Jews were. Eastern and Central European Jews took up German as their preferrred language and culture. Zionism, Reform Judaism, and some Hasidic sects were the products of German speaking Jews, Many of the Jews in his country owe their presence here to the charity of the German Jewish owner of the Hamburg American Line. He arranged for the cheap passage to America for those Russian Jews who were fleeing the pogroms......I can't brag about my German ancestry without sounding like a wad, but it's ok to talk about how terrific my German Jews ancestors were without giving offense. Such are the accent marks of history.
TWW said...
""Here in Colombia and in the world, millions of people are still being sold as slaves.""
And that's just the victims of pedophile priests.
9/11/17, 6:20 PM
Not touching that one with a ten-foot pole. But one does wonder, how did this goon get the job?
while it's true that millennials have little feel for history, their lack of ethnic identification is also due to the fact that if you are, like my nephew, a quarter Czech, a quarter Polish, a quarter Irish, an eighth Italian and an eighth Greek, well, how can you identify strongly with any of those ethnic groups? Plus, it strikes me that the Left fully espouses the idea of the melting pot, but only where whites are concerned. New England WASP, Wisconsin German, San Francisco Italian, of Mayflower stock or descended from people who came off the boat at Ellis Island in 1921- we're all just crackas who need to check our privilege.
Roughcoat: True dat, and as you described. "[E]motional reserve occasionally punctuated by spectacular (if harmless) displays of temper" is a good description of Latin crazy.
You must have grown up with different brands of Irish and Latins than I did. Now, there is a style of classical Iberian reserve and self-control that I'm familiar with, but that is not the characteristically Irish reserve with which I am familialy (is that a word?) familiar, which is a deep shyness joined to a fanatical protectiveness of private feeling. It can co-exist with an outward persona of wit and easy-going affability. But do not get nosy and presume to intrude upon this amiable person's emotional privacy.
Since I have plenty of Irish in laws and dated more than a few Irish boys, I fully agree with the description of them as highly reserved people with spectacular outbursts of anger. And unpredictable outbursts, I might add. You never know what's gonna set them off! But they are reserved when it comes to expressing grief and to a certain extent, affection as well.
Angel Dyne, an Irish in law explained it to me: when you grow up among verbally facile people with a talent for ridicule, you learn to keep your deeper feelings to yourself.
I've never heard of slavery in Colombia. I mean modern Colombia.
Is there really slavery in Colombia today? Or could it be that we are talking about slavery in the sense of that recent posthumous essay by a Filipino man about his family's life-long servant. And I don't think that was really slavery, although I understand why he used that word.
Also, on a different subject, several people above mentioned Mexico. What happened in Mexico? Something big has been left of what little history I know about Mexico. And I'm thinking about slavery because more African slaves were sold to Mexico than the combined number sold to the British colonies in America and the French colony of Louisiana.
Someone above claimed that Mexico's black population is about 1 percent. And yet the United States has a black population of about 15 percent and it's even odder because a huge number of people immigrated to the United States that were not black after slavery and no similar number of people went to Mexico.
So how is this possible? There seem to be a huge number of missing black people in Mexico.
We of English heritage have stiff upper lips, you know. It's genetic. No outwardly visible emotions allowed in my family, either.
Per this article African slaves were never more than 2% of the population:
http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/migrations/legacy/almleg.html
The problem I believe, is relatively speaking the 13 colonies / US was much smaller than Mexico for the longest time in population.
US Slave population was in the Millions:
http://thomaslegion.net/totalslaveslaverypopulationinunitedstates17901860bystate.html
I'm German/Irish/Yankee. So far as I can tell, ALL of my ancestors came to America because they didn't like the way things were in the mother land. The Yankees were Puritans, and they immigrated to Massachusetts between 1620 and the 1640's (except the one who was arguably an Indian) to get away from the Anglican oppression. The Irish and Germans came to Brooklyn in the 1870's. I don't know why the Irish came here, but I assume that things weren't working out too well for them on the auld sod. I know the Germans came here to get away from the Prussians.
What I do know is that my parents raised me to be an American, and I'm proud of that. My German-American grandfather and father wore the American uniform in (respectively) the First and Second World Wars, and my Irish Grandfather did so in the First World War. My ancestors came here to be Americans, and I've tried to live up to that.
Thanks Ray. But you've just confused me.
You're Smithsonian citation claims that 200,000 African slaves went to Mexico. And then you state that the US slave population was in the millions. Well yes it was in the millions but it didn't start out that way. We know from the slave ship records which are pretty extensive and detailed exactly where the slaves went. That information has been out there in multiple forms I think for decades, but just recently I saw an animation of basically every trip from Africa and were the people went.
But the point is that more went to Mexico. It's just a little bit more; they are both in the same ballpark. So the question is, again, or maybe saying it slightly differently, why didn't the Mexican black population increase like the American one?
I get your idea that some of this could be explained if we assume that Mexico had a larger population at the time the slaves were brought over. I had the same idea. But that doesn't really explain it. Because think about in terms of absolute numbers. Forget the percentages.
Since there were more Mexican blacks to start with, the Mexican black population today should be at least as large as the American black population. In fact, take it further, since Mexico has a smaller population today, the percentage today of blacks in Mexico should be larger than in America.
The absolute numbers should be about the same; the percentage in Mexico actually much larger.
But we don't see anything like that. There has to be a crucial part of this story that is not being told.
mockturtle said...
We of English heritage have stiff upper lips, you know. It's genetic. No outwardly visible emotions allowed in my family, either.
9/11/17, 8:10 PM
I used to think that (and I admired it), until Princess Di's death. That was the first I saw of Brits sobbing uncontrollably and piling up teddy bears. I visited the UK for lengthy periods in the '80s, and didn't see that coming. Now they light candles and hug each other after terrorist attacks. Something in the national character seems to have changed.
I suppose you could say that of us too.
{{Germans are the most assimilated ethnic group in America. Something to do with Hitler, I believe
Not Hitler, Kaiser Bill. Check out "Burning Beethoven: The Eradication of German Culture in the United States during World War I" by Kirschbaum. Excellent book.}}
Happened in my family...was always told that we were Irish and Dutch. Turns out the "Irish" was family name Corey--changed from Kohr due to anti-German feeling in the early 1900s. The "Dutch" was a corruption of Deutsch.
Exiled counters: I used to think that (and I admired it), until Princess Di's death. That was the first I saw of Brits sobbing uncontrollably and piling up teddy bears. I visited the UK for lengthy periods in the '80s, and didn't see that coming. Now they light candles and hug each other after terrorist attacks. Something in the national character seems to have changed.
I suppose you could say that of us too.
You are right, of course. Although no fan of the Kennedys, I remember with admiration
the scene of Jackie and the children at the funeral procession and little John Jr. standing at attention and saluting his father's casket, all in mute, dignified silence.
Somewhere in the past few decades we have been led to believe that displaying our emotions--all of them, all the time--is healthy. But I don't see much evidence that this is the case.
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