"The problem with any shortcut is that they all end up at the top of a 600-foot cliff,” he said. “You cannot see it from the top of the mountain looking down. You cannot see how dangerous it is."
From a Denver Post article about the 5th death in 2 months on Capitol Peak — in what seems to be "an increasing flow of people compelled to bag 'fourteeners'... a heavily promoted recreational pursuit that draws inexperienced hikers to Colorado’s high country."
"People should be in the mountains enjoying them, not turning it into some kind of competition where people are ‘bagging’ 14ers."
In a true competition, there are 2 sides. People are bagging mountains and mountains are bagging people.
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७७ टिप्पण्या:
And there are no shortcuts coming off that mountain. There is only one way.
This is objectively false. The people are finding a shortcut.
The verb "to bag" apparently (quite believably) arose in hunting-- you bagged game, and especially birds (because lugging around a white-tail deer is not something you do with a bag). Traditionally to eat, but some modern hunters collect game to mount exotic heads on their walls.
Modern bird-lovers ("birders") bag birds by sighting them and writing them down. Very peaceful, but it's still a collecting thing, much like bagging 14ers.
Bagging birds in the UK could refer to what a cad does in nightclubs.
All somewhat similar activities, in that they all express the desire to collect things, but with different motivations and underlying moralities.
@Ignorance,
The people are finding a shortcut.
And at a high rate of speed, too, apparently.
"Into Thin Air" is a good book about another sort of mountain "collector."
Darwin strikes again.
At one of those "related article" links:
Reports of a “minute-long scream,” rockfall and the sounds of a man and woman shouting to each other have helped the Pitkin County Sheriff’s Office piece together more information about the Sunday deaths of an Aspen couple on Capitol Peak.
Death may not come fast enough.
Just curious Althouse, did you two tie the knot on a fourteener?
A couple weeks ago I was hiking in New Hampshire's White Mountains. Got withing ~50 yards of the summit of Mt. Adams and had to turn back, due to high winds and sleet. The trail was rough, and the wind gusty, so every step required effort to maintain balance and plant your foot where you intended. Serious risk of a broken ankle, and a broken ankle would put you a serious risk of hypothermia. Not worth the risk, just to claim I had reached the summit.
tcrosse said...
Darwin strikes again.
Gravity. It's not just a good idea, it's the law. It also isn't subject to negotiation or litigation. It's very much an equal opportunity phenomenon.
Sleet, in August. I miss the White Mountains....Good call ,IiB.
I have been up that mountain on the "easy" route and I think I know where people might think it smart to take a short cut to the bottom. It is shorter and it sure as hell is faster once they get to sliding. There is a climber's cabin below the pyramid where I spent a couple of miserable nights.
Some of you guys are very sick. I started laughing so I must be sick, too.
I have missed out on a few of the best views where we have hiked because I won't go on a narrow path that's a deadly drop on one side. I just won't do it. Every step would have "Death!" screaming at me. The message is: Don't do it. I know other people hear it as: This is exactly why you must do it!
People should be in the mountains ‘bagging’ 14ers, not turning it into some kind of kumbaya navel gazing session where everyone gets a trophy for not dying.
Ah, thinking about the wrong mountain. No climber's cabin near Capitol. It is worth going to youtube and watching people traverse the "knife's edge" to the summit . I have not been beyond the lake.
Any person who'd use the word bag this way is begging to be smitten by the aesthetic karma gods.
Althouse: I am one of those who has a horrible fear of heights but am drawn to the mountains, I no likee the bits where there is only air on one side. See the youtube for the traverse of Capitol Peak. It will make you want to puke.
And they are putting others at risk rescuing them. I think they should close the mountain to all but experienced climbers. If anyone goes and needs help, fine the hell out of them.
And the term fourteener as well. Dopey.
"People should be in the mountains enjoying them, not turning it into some kind of competition where people are ‘bagging’ 14ers."
Comin' down the mountain
One of many children
Everybody has
Their own opinion
Everybody has
Their own opinion
Holding it back
Hurts so bad
Jumping out of my flesh
And I said
Cash in!
Cash in now honey
Cash in now!
Ann Althouse said...
Every step would have "Death!" screaming at me.
I hear that! After moving to SE Utah I had nightmares about cliffs almost every night. The stupid dogs would stand right on the edge of 50' vertical cliffs with their toes hanging over...
Ann Althouse said...
Every step would have "Death!" screaming at me. The message is: Don't do it. I know other people hear it as: This is exactly why you must do it!
The Imp of the Perverse.
We stand upon the brink of a precipice. We peer into the abyss—we grow sick and dizzy. Our first impulse is to shrink away from the danger. Unaccountably we remain... it is but a thought, although a fearful one, and one which chills the very marrow of our bones with the fierceness of the delight of its horror. It is merely the idea of what would be our sensations during the sweeping precipitancy of a fall from such a height... for this very cause do we now the most vividly desire it.
The fastest and quickest way off of that mountain, is to jump off that cliff.
I feel the same way as Althouse, i won't go on narrow trails with steep drop offs. I don't care - if the trail is Wide enough. My family went on a a trip to Zion and my daughter went ahead on a narrow trail. I was about to go back, when I noticed steel hand holds had been "stapled" on to the hill side. So i went on, because I had something to hold onto and felt safe. My daughter still teases me about it.
Its like signs warning you to stay away from the edge of a cliff. I don't need the sign, I'm not go anywhere near the edge
Other than lightning and high altitude sickness, mountain climbing is very safe.
Most people get killed through recklessness.
I just won't do it. Every step would have "Death!" screaming at me.
Mine too. I'm convinced some people's brains are simply configured differently. Once on Half Dome I watched a friend walk up to the sheer cliff, place his toes on the lip, and peer down, all done as casually as walking across his living room. His thinking was that you'd never trip and fall in your living room. My thinking was that the upside and downside risks were not aligned.
I like solid rock on either side when I'm up high, too. I can barely stand being in a car and driving down the side of a mountain.
Got a brother who has been working on the 14ers. He climbs solo, so there are a couple that are problematic. Worry every week during this time of year (for him, there are two seasons every year - 9 months of Ski Season, and the rest is Climbing Season). Get FindMeSpot GPS emails Sat and Sun throughout that latter. I worry, but nothing anyone can do.
I do agree with Ann about heights. Never was much good (which was a problem growing up right by the CO mtns), but my acrophobia got a lot worse after my youngest brother died climbing by Boulder almost 35 years ago. Went up Longs Peak as a teenager, with my father, as he had with his father. I was happy to have my kid do it in camp instead. Of the 14ers, I could probably still handle Evens, Elbert, and maybe Grays and Torrey's. And that doesn't take into account a familial susceptibility to HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Endema). Not a problem normally, since I can detect it coming on, and know how to prevent it, but it does keep me from spending nights above maybe 10k feet.
Once on Half Dome I watched a friend walk up to the sheer cliff, place his toes on the lip, and peer down, all done as casually as walking across his living room.
I get a pit-in-the-stomach-feeling just reading this.
"Once on Half Dome I watched a friend walk up to the sheer cliff, place his toes on the lip, and peer down, all done as casually as walking across his living room. His thinking was that you'd never trip and fall in your living room."
There are no sudden wind gusts in your living room.
Having known quite a few climbers [some now dead as a result of their passion], I can attest to their generally high level of intelligence and academic credentials. They are not stupid thrill seekers. They are very smart thrill seekers.
One either 'gets' climbing or one doesn't.
You gotta die of something
I've known climbers. But the problem with climbing mountains is that you are always playing the odds against the house; and the mountain is working with house money.
I crossed the knife edge in 1977 at the age of 19 and had a pretty good time, even though I basically crawled the whole way. While I was there a guy ran up the valley, up the trail to the ridge, along the ridge to the knife edge, across it, then turned and ran back the way he had come. It was mind boggling.
"Bagging a 14er"? Where is Laslo when you need him....
People are bagging mountains and mountains are bagging people.
Gravity and altitude always win. Always.
Rob
I have been passed by a runner on the Ditch Trail going to Capitol and passing me in the other direction when I got to the creek about half way to the lake. The Roaring Fork valley is filled with health Nazis.
"Althouse: I am one of those who has a horrible fear of heights but am drawn to the mountains..."
I don't have a fear of heights. I love looking out from a high spot. I have a fear of falling. If a fall would be deadly, I don't want to walk there.
I bagged a fourteener-- Mount Whitney-- when I was sixteen. This summer we camped at Whitney Portal, at about 8400 feet. The 100-foot hike from our campsite to the vault toilet completely winded me. No more fourteeners for me.
If people are going to put up mountains in their communities, they need to install proper safety equipment. I cannot believe this thing passed inspection before it opened to the public. Blaming these tragedies on the inexperience of the victims just doesn't cut it. You don't see people falling to their deaths of off Disney's Matterhorn or Space Mountain. Perhaps the people of Colorado cannot be trusted to make mountains out of molehills.
Michael, I went to CMC in 1978 and 1979 and lived in Carbondale. The valley was full of cowboys, coal miners, coke dealers, "college" students, and ski area douchebags then, so health nazis seem like a step sideways. I'm sure the west campus has plenty of SJWs now too, and Snowmass/Aspen are full of wealthy self-loathing libs. I kinda miss it.
Gravity is a law that helps proves Darwin's theory.
The walk up 'Half Dome' was the most unpleasant well-known hike, I've ever done.
I did it before the internet, and I was taken surprise by how crowded and - to my mind unnecessarily dangerous. It was bad enough to half to pull yourself up by cables but I had "hotshots" constantly passing me, and people coming down also causing problems.
It was more like a new york sidewalk than a nature hike.
like someone up thread, I believe this fear of falling or heights is genetic.
As a young kid we had path that divided into two by a low hedge. One part ran along the cliff, the other part further inland. Some kids ran along the cliff path, others like me, felt safer using the inland path.
I wonder if people who are unconcerned with falling are more courageous or whether they are simply too dumb to notice the danger.
Earnest Prole said...
You gotta die of something
Yes, but it doesn't have to be today.
The Roaring Fork valley is filled with health Nazis.
This. Rich health Nazis. I went to high school in Carbondale, and I was always the odd one out because I didn't want to spend every weekend in the mountains.
"I believe this fear of falling or heights is genetic."
Yes. Those who have no fear don't pass on their genes.
rcocean: Most people get killed through recklessness.
Often not so much recklessness as inexperience and heedlessness. Not "hey, that looks like a thrill, let's do it!", but "la la la this looks perfectly safe no problem".
People think hikes or climbs are "safe" because they're in a park, there's an official trail, and jillions of people have preceded them, etc. I hiked and attempted to hike some of the non-technical "easy" fourteeners (e.g. Quandary). Tried to climb Long's three times but I was with experienced, knowledgeable, prudent people, and we turned back every time, because conditions looked like they might become less than ideal. Then there's Bierstadt - another "easy" fourteener, but the trail goes through a willow marsh which is like slogging through the freakin' Sudd, and takes way longer than you thought it would. Thus, the necessity of turning back *this* far from the top.
So, I'm a wise hiker who would never get herself into a pickle? Ahem. I admit with shame that I came within spitting distance of earning a Darwin Award Honorary Mention hiking around Maroon Bells. Not climbing any peaks, mind you, or rock-climbing in that area with its notoriously friable rock. Hey, I knew that stuff was out of my league, I was just takin' a leisurely hike. Just hiking along a stream on a trail that just happened to have a little bump that required a bit of scrambling, and...long story short, I came to understand viscerally that the line between "perfectly safe" and "point of no return" can be quite literally one step or one arm reach.
I have a nice photo that my husband took of Maroon Bells. I keep it in my office to remind myself, just in case I forget, that I'm an idiot.
I climbed for ten years starting in Southern California, then in Oregon, and finally in the North Cascades. In 1979, I took a fifty foot leader fall halfway up a 450 foot pitch near Leavenworth. I finished the climb with my bare ass hanging out for all to see. Got back to Seattle and packed away my gear.
Like all things stochastic, the individual climb might be a random independent event; but the overall distribution is not. People doing "risky" things are always running against the odds. Add to this a sense of [false] confidence and it is a matter of time before someone in the group says, "Come on; this is taking forever; let's get down and go get a beer," or something banal like that.
In Bernstein's book, Against the Gods, he recounts a story of a physicist living in Stalingrad during the Nazi bombardment. He would never go into the bombshelters. When asked why, he would say, there are seven million people and one elephant living in Stalingrad, the odds that a bomb will hit me is nil. One night, he entered the bombshelter near his apartment. His neighbors asked what made him change his mind. "Last night, they killed the elephant."
I studied risk at the UW (as in Seattle). I had a fifty footer; it was time to quit.
I watched 15 seconds of a youtube video on walking the Capitol Peak knife edge and that was enough.
I watched 15 seconds of a youtube video on walking the Capitol Peak knife edge and that was enough.
What struck me as scariest was that the rocks looked as though they could come loose. But they were apparently very stable.
furious_a said...
People are bagging mountains and mountains are bagging people.
Gravity and altitude always win. Always.
Nope. That's why Paragliding exists. :-)
Blogger Angel-Dyne said...
I have a nice photo that my husband took of Maroon Bells. I keep it in my office to remind myself, just in case I forget, that I'm an idiot.
Great story!
Gravity is a law that helps proves Darwin's theory.
The “law of gravity” (and all such “laws”) is also a theory. No theory in science is ever proved. “Proof” — i.e., certainty in knowledge — is not one of the capabilities and characteristics of science (outside the realm of abstract mathematics, that is). Indeed, gravity has not been proved — and never will be.
Theories are never proven. No, what makes for a successful scientific theory isn't that it can ever be proved, but that it robustly resists disproof.
I've lived in Colorado for years, and have climbed about 8 Fourteeners. I was great, and I'd highly recommend it. But all 14ers are not created equal - "14" only refers to elevation. These trails have a wide range of difficulty - from climbs that you could take your kids and dogs on, requiring only appropriate footwear, layered clothing and drinking water / some high energy snacks - to climbs requiring expertise and good climbing equipment. Some of these excursions can be fun for even a novice with no special equipment. I've seen really beautiful trails and views on the easier hikes! There are plenty of books and websites that can help you sort all this out and select a few you can climb and enjoy without fear of death.
But, there will always be idiots - and they will risk their lives on foolish endeavors. You need to be an expert to climb a lot of these peaks. Capital Peak is one of the most difficult and dangerous climbs.
The following link lists the different categories and what they mean. (most of my climbs have been Class 1 & 2, but I have climbed one 3)
https://www.14ers.com/classes.html
The following link sorts the climbs out by difficulty.
https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/usrpeaksrall.php
Don't let some peoples' foolish choices keep you from trying something you'll really enjoy. In my opinion, Colorado is at its best in the summer.
Let me recommend the book "Mountain High, Mountain Rescue", by Peggy Parr.
https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-High-Rescue-Peggy-Parr/dp/155591005X
Parr, an experienced mountaineer, joined the El Paso County, CO Mountain Search and Rescue team at age 59.
I always remember her photo of a SAR team member snowshoeing toward an aircrash site. Chilling.
Pictures from Bierstadt - one of my favorites!
https://www.14ers.com/php14ers/tripreport.php?trip=17961
Good information on easier climbs:
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/sports/outdoors/2014/06/27/top-beginner-fourteeners/11474973/
"Often not so much recklessness as inexperience and heedlessness. Not "hey, that looks like a thrill, let's do it!", but "la la la this looks perfectly safe no problem".
Maybe that's it. Every summer around here we have at least one person who requires medical attention because they try to climb a local 2000 ft. hill in the heat of summer and get sunstroke. 9/10 of them didn't carry water! Maybe they thought, there was a ice cream stand at the top - LOL - or water fountains along the way.
My first thoughts:
They have 14 point deer on that mountain? And enough to have multiple people bagging them?
I was disappointed, but not as disappointed as some of those hikers.
My first thoughts:
They have 14 point deer on that mountain? And enough to have multiple people bagging them?
Eastern or Western count?
I bagged a fourteener-- Mount Whitney-- when I was sixteen. This summer we camped at Whitney Portal, at about 8400 feet. The 100-foot hike from our campsite to the vault toilet completely winded me. No more fourteeners for me.
I did Whitney sometime in college. I remember the same thing. Trying to hike around a little lake at the camprground most of the way up, and being out of breath every five steps. But we felt a whole lot better in the morning, and made it to the peak and back down.
I did Whitney sometime in college. I remember the same thing. Trying to hike around a little lake at the camprground most of the way up, and being out of breath every five steps. But we felt a whole lot better in the morning, and made it to the peak and back down.
I climbed Whitney in a single day, leaving Whitney Portal just before dawn and returning just after dusk. No only is it taller than the wimpy Colorado peaks but the vertical gain is far greater.
If a fall would be deadly, I don't want to walk there.
It's not the fall that's the problem, it's that sudden stop at the end.
Earnst Prole
Have a look at the Capitol Peak knife's edge on youtube and get back to us on your hike.
LilyBart
Thank you for the links. I am surprised that those killed on Capitol had not (apparently) availed themselves of the numerous climbing guides for the climbs around Aspen including, or especially, Capitol. The guides are quite explicit on the routes and make it clear that they are often counterintuitive. I have been up Longs and that was more than enough for me. I have been many times to Capitol Lake and have read the guides to get me to the top. The guides do not provide the nerve for the knife's edge.
Have a look at the Capitol Peak knife's edge on youtube and get back to us on your hike.
It's virtually flat, but I agree it would be difficult for those too stupid or arrogant to rope up.
Ann,
You should go climb Guadalupe Peak in Texas (in Guadalupe Mountains National Park). No real death drops. Only two short spots where there is any kind of serious drop off. You could do it!
Earnest Prole
Not sure even guides rope their clients on that bit.
I bagged a dozen or so 14ers when I lived in CO in the 80's. None of them were technical (ropes, etc.) but. almost all were endurance hikes. The toughest one I bagged was Longs Peak.
The toughest one I bagged was Longs Peak.
I think I posted here recently that my grandparents and other relatives climbed Longs Peak several times in the 1920's and 30's. I have a couple of photos of them on their climb. One at the summit. My grandmother is wearing a dress. :-) She never wore anything but a dress in her life.
I might add that, living as they did in Boulder County, they were acclimated better to altitude than some might be.
And one of my great uncles got altitude sickness every time and never made the summit.
@mockturtle: I wonder if your grandparents took the same route that I did (Keyhole route)? There used to be a "short cut" route more up the face that involved permanent cables. I understand that it was dismantled well before I climbed it in '86.
BTW, I found a website called Peakbagger.
LOL
I was living in Fort Collins at the time and so I too was well acclimated to "Mile High". I never felt any altitude sickness.
Not sure even guides rope their clients on that bit.
There’s exposure and there’s work. Ropes solve exposure, but work is always work.
@mockturtle: I wonder if your grandparents took the same route that I did (Keyhole route)? There used to be a "short cut" route more up the face that involved permanent cables. I understand that it was dismantled well before I climbed it in '86.
Not sure what route, chickelit. I spoke to my great aunt about it not long ago [she died recently at 101]. She was among the climbers. Someone from a Colorado mountaineering club was interested in the photos and was putting them in some historical records they keep. She was especially interested in women climbers. My mother gave me a book about women climbing in the Rockies--can't remember the name of it and I don't have the book with me right now. But there were more than one might think even as early as the late 19th century. They climbed in high-top shoes and long dresses. Yikes!
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