"Russia on Monday condemned the American military’s downing of a Syrian warplane, suspending the use of a military hotline that Washington and Moscow have used to avoid collisions in Syrian airspace and threatening to target aircraft flown by the United States and its allies over Syria." (NYT)
I can be jocose about it, because I know Trump and Putin have a bromance. They're just putting on this show as a coverup.
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This Trump is buds with Putin as a created narrative by Hillary after Trump kicked her butt is probably the worst thing the Clintons have ever done. And that's saying a lot.
I wish there was an emoji for that little beckoning motion that Bruce Lee does in the movies when he wants the bad guy to bring it, like 👋.
👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
It's nothing personal, just business.
The worst fights happen between ex lovers.
Guess I need to reread "The Guns of August."
"They're just putting on this show as a coverup." Exactly. Who knew, though, that Trump and the ex-KGB guy could be so subtle about their collusion?
Medal of online Honor for this superb troll @Althouse!
I thought the hotline and all air cooperation got shelved when Trump "cruise missiled" the Syrian air base. Apparently back in business until some hot shot Syrian pilot wandered outside his flight zone. Much ado, but little change. Very difficult to tell who is doing what to whom in that awful corner of the world.
They can't declare a no-fly zone over a sovereign country that's allied with them -- only we can do that!
But won't it be fun to watch them try to enforce it.
Don't know about this; a lot of the players are getting restless. Lots of disinformation in that part of the world. Be that as it may, the Russians and the Syrians are down two points and the Iranians are flexing their muscle: http://www.debka.com/article/26106/Russian-warning-US-planes-in-W-Syria-are-targets.
Looks like they want a rematch.
Trump and Putin have agreed that a limited nuclear exchange should prove once and for all that Trump is not Putin's butt-boy.
None of this makes sense to me unless the troops being protected on the ground were actually Americans.
Russia hasn't explained why they were bombing our troops trying to attack ISIS.
The press and the state department need to hammer home that question.
If Russia and Iran is not going to help with ISIS, they need to leave.
"I can be jocose about it, because I know Trump and Putin have a bromance."
Next thing you will do is bring up all of the drilling and pipelines and development the US has started doing bringing down the oil prices worldwide and how US fracking unleashed has put a cap on Russian oil/gas profits.
Bob Loblaw said...None of this makes sense to me unless the troops being protected on the ground were actually Americans.
They are mostly a proxy Army. The US advisers give them intelligence, but don't shoot rifles at the front.
"how US fracking unleashed has put a cap on Russian oil/gas profits."
Shhhhhh.
Inga will be microagressed.
Jocose? Downing a warplane?
Hahahaha. Let's just kill fighter pilots for the hell of it. Life and death on a video game screen from a control room in Las Vegas.
Collusion, obviously, to trigger the leakers.
Wasn't the elective war that forced a refugee crisis conceived with the choice to force catastrophic anthropogenic immigration reform and securing Libya's oil?
Liberal choice, Liberal choice, send baby right over.
Someone remind me again what we're ding there anyway. Is it to prop up the Russian/Iranian puppet Assad? Or to fight the Sunni co-religionists of Wahhabi Sa'ud ISIS for them - while they do nothing with all that fancy new military hardware we're sending over?
So hard to keep track of this insane man's ridiculous attempt at a foreign policy.
You do know the bromance thing is fake news, right?
Russia is real, Putin is real, the bombs and bullets are real.
Don't be a Democrat.
Wasn't it 'Dubya' who looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul?
TTR,
What's your problem? Trump's Syria "policy" is just a continuation of Obama's "policy".
"I wish there was an emoji for that little beckoning motion that Bruce Lee does in the movies when he wants the bad guy to bring it...."
Who do you think is the bad guy here and who is Bruce Lee? Perhaps no one is Bruce Lee. (In fact, no one is Bruce Lee.)
Obama ceded Syria to Putin, extending and enhacing Russia's influence in the MidEast. This was dangerous to American interests in the region, and on several levels.
For example, there exists a Russian SOP known as Sandukar. Under the policy, Russia is to remove any evidence it has been aiding another nation's chemical, biological and nuclear programs if U.N. Inspectors come knocking.
Some of you may remember a bit of "drama" just before President Bush liberated Iraq - a Russian convoy was spotted fleeing Baghdad for Syria, and under international law we could not stop the trucks and search them. Many intelligence analysts suspect they spirited away crucial evidence of Saddam Hussein's WMD program.
Obama got played by Putin who, as an experienced KGB agent, was able to quickly size up Obama as a fraud more concerned with form than substance.
"Don't call my bluff!" must have ellicited smirks around the table of Putin's Situational Room.
So I am happy Trump is cleaning up the mess he inherited from Obama.
"What's your problem? Trump's Syria 'policy' is just a continuation of Obama's 'policy.'"
Which was a continuation of what would have been Bush's policy if had remained in office.
So hard to keep track of this insane man's ridiculous attempt at a foreign policy.
WWHD: What Would Hillary Do ?
Ah, I've been wanting to say that for so long. I want to say it again, just to relish the moment:
THE MESS TRUMP INHERITED FROM OBAMA
Say it with me. It's so cathartic. Please feel free to rinse and repeat over the next 7 years.
What's your problem? Trump's Syria "policy" is just a continuation of Obama's "policy".
I guess my problem is that I actually look at history and see no need to be trolled like a chump by it. Apparently the Romans were onto something with divide and conquer. But instead of refusing to take sides in the Shia-Sunni conflict, Trump's decided that the ISIS-allied Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia really, really need us. Instead he could have continued detente with the Shia Iranians who are natural enemies of ISIS, but no. He wants to give the Arabs every incentive to have America fight this never-ending Muslim-Muslim religious conflict for them. WHILE giving the Saudi billionaires shiny new military equipment with which to not fight the wars that they'd clearly prefer us to fight for them.
It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. The Romans were smart enough to allow insignificant squabbling local tribes to fight amongst and weaken themselves. Trump's propping them up. Arming them. And doing their fighting for them.
Stupid in every way. But hey, that's your guy. You'd follow him off a bridge.
Trump already won World War III with North Korea. This is Word War IV.
"Obama ceded Syria to Putin, extending and enhacing Russia's influence in the MidEast. This was dangerous to American interests in the region, and on several levels."
What rightful interests do we have in the region?
"Some of you may remember a bit of 'drama' just before President Bush liberated Iraq*** - a Russian convoy was spotted fleeing Baghdad for Syria, and under international law we could not stop the trucks and search them. Many intelligence analysts suspect they spirited away crucial evidence of Saddam Hussein's WMD program."
Who are these "many (sic) intelligence analysts?" It is accepted by the US government that Hussein did not have any extant WMD program.
***(“They have plundered the world, stripping naked the land in their hunger… they are driven by greed, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor… They ravage, they slaughter, they seize by false pretenses, and all of this they hail as the construction of empire. And when in their wake nothing remains but a desert, they call that peace.” Tacitus)
Or, in our case, "liberation."
WWHD: What Would Hilary Do?
Get rich(er) selling her soul to the highest bidder, create a catastrophe by prioritizing enriching herself over, well, anything else--and then blame anyone and everyone else around her for the consequences.
Rome fell because the German barbarian tribes it co-opted into its own armies eventually BECAME the Roman army and then over-ran Rome.
Which is more or less what Trump's doing for the Sunni Wahhabi Muslims.
What a guy. He can weaken America in less than a decade in ways that it took Rome centuries to do.
Make sure not to think these very simple things through.
Example:
Leftist: "Trump blah blah fumbled blah economy"
Right: "Oh, you mean that mess Trump inherited from Obama?"
Your soul will be light as a feather. Be sure to snap pics of your liberal subject as they suffer a coniption fit and send the best ones to Insty to post. Maybe we can have a contest that raises money for charity.
The Syrian Sukhoi shootdown is just a chip in the US/Russia negotiation about "deconfliction" zones. No big power pilots were hurt in this poker game.
Fenne: Don't you have an adolescent neighbor you can convince to commit suicide or something?
Yakking on this thread about your love of committing national suicide is pretty embarrassing. Even for you.
Abby Someone wrote: The worst fights happen between ex lovers.
Yeah, that Hitler/FDR affair was epic.
WWHD
The entire Syrian civil war is WHDD.
What rightful interests do we have in the region?
That's the key question. We don't have any interests in Syria at all, rightful or not. We have a responsibility to help the Iraqis maintain the territorial integrity of Iraq, but Syria was always a Russian client state. Let the Russians deal with it. There are no good guys there - Assad is as good a winner as any.
Cook: "What rightful interests do we have in the region?"
Several, but just off the top of my head:
1) The spice must flow. Regardless of America's ability to supply itself with domestic energy, the Middle East controls the VARIANCE in oil prices. If the price of oil seesaws wildly because of instability in the region, the entire world Will slip into chaos. You may not fully appreciate the danger of bread costing $3 a loaf in June and $30 in July, but it is considered a potential Extinction Level Event to those paid to worry and plan for such contengencies.
2) The Middle East is the heart of the Jihad. We have an interest in preventing nation states that are precursors to the Caliphate from acquiring WMDs. We cannot allow suicide bombers access to nuclear weapons. NYC has it coming.
3) We have an interest in a stable Middle East so that waves of refugees do not swarm into Western Civilization and overload welfare programs while hijacking the local culture to install Sharia. We already have a preview of the damage a minor wave has done to Europe.
4) We have a moral obligation to, as best as we can, protect the human rights of people in the region. When we liberated Iraq, many brave Iraqi men and women risked everything they had to help protect my troops and aid us in reforming their country. When the American Left forced us to abandon Iraq so they could preen and Virtue Signal their embrace of "peace", they threw those courageous Iraqis under the bus. They are all dead now, something I will never forgive the Left for. The Left views the "little brown people" in the Middle East as subhuman savages, held to a bigotry of low expectations, and turns a blind eye to atrocities that would not be tolerated in the West... to quote a wise analyst who's name I am blanking on. I want to say Bernard Lewis, The Crisis of Islam. Pretty sure that's it.
Ritmo: "I actually look at history and - "
Baby, just thrown in the towel. These waters are too deep for you and it's cough kinda my area of expertise cough, and your Dance of Sophistry is just going to waste everyone's time.
Your were called out a few days back by someone in the psychiatric field for using psych term loosely and innacurately, ie. posing as an authority. I suspect your analysis of foreign policy is likewise cribbed from Vox or Salon or Glenn Greenwald. We can get your talking points from HuffPo sans the ad hom.
I mean seriously, how bright can you really be, considering that your intellectual pinnacle is trolling a blog and taking cheap shots at people you hate.
Sit down.
The New Left was trying to destroy America in 1967. Now they "worry" about Trump destroying America. Right.
So how many air forces in the Middle East might like to get the Russian Air Force our of there?
1. Jordan
2. Israel
3. Turkey
4. USA
5. Saudi Arabia
Three competent air forces. Two superb ones.
I doubt the Russians want to push this very far.
Putin's threat to target allied aircraft is clever. I think he is trying to provoke an over-reaction (military strike as object lesson) by Trump that he can parlay into something.
It also sets Trump up to draw a red line he can't enforce.
But then Putin knows Trump is being handicapped domestically by traitors attempting a coup to overturn a Presidential Election. Putin is taking Trump's measure, getting a free preview of Trump's resolve, intel to be used for more important Russian gambits in the future.
Wouldn't it be ironic - the Left's handicapping of Trump puts him in a weaker and more desperate position, creating a crisis situation that forces Trump to overplay/underplay his hand, resulting in the irridation of NYC, Boston, Chicago, Low Angeles.
We have an interest in a stable Middle East -
Yeah. Good luck with that one, silly cuntwad.
Trump turned the war over to Mattis. Mad Dog is literally calling the shots.
"We think Trump is a reckless course egomaniac. Hey! Let's weaken the American President while he is struggling with super predators like Putin. What could go wrong?" - the walking dead of New England.
Ritmo: "silly cuntwad"
Yes, bravo. Sick burn. You just stick to what you're good at while the adults dig into an interesting discussion of foreign policy.
Could you bring over the Stoli while you are up? Thanks.
Our interest in Syria is that if we don't get the situation under control, progressives will use the chaos to resume their call for an influx of Muslim "refugees" to be given sanctuary in the US.
Baby, just thrown in the towel. These waters are too deep for you and it's cough kinda my area of expertise cough, and your Dance of Sophistry is just going to waste everyone's time.
Your were called out a few days back by someone in the psychiatric field for using psych term loosely and innacurately, ie. posing as an authority. I suspect your analysis of foreign policy is likewise cribbed from Vox or Salon or Glenn Greenwald. We can get your talking points from HuffPo sans the ad hom.
I mean seriously, how bright can you really be, considering that your intellectual pinnacle is trolling a blog and taking cheap shots at people you hate.
Sit down.
Talk about sophistry. Three paragraphs of ad hominem starting with the chest-beating "expertise" claim, meandering to absolutely no policy at all - NEWSFLASH, Fuckhole: Nursery-school-level theology bitchfests and 15-year old foreign policy blunders (leading to attacking the wrong country) are actually not policy. Let me guess where you got these cribbed shitpoints of your own: John Bolton? George Bush?
Fact remains: You are a useless nutcunt for the Saudi regime, which gets free rent-a-cop service from you and your fellow cannon fodder, all so that it can continue exporting more jihad-love than Iran ever could. Yet they own you like a twice-fucked camel. Any idiot can see that having them fighting Iran is better than getting us to fight anyone else over there - but you're basically an Arabian sheikh's bitch, and not saving a single fucking "Christian", or any other Mid-East minority. You're the only dumb motherfucker left actually touting the Iraq invasion, which killed over a million of their people and decimated Christian communities across the country and region. You're the only dipshit who actually wants to fight the Arabs' wars for them - hell, even wars they themselves aren't interested in fighting; and your country's moved on and left you. Talk about psychological problems. A teenage suicide advocate is also an advocate in fighting wars on behalf of people too rich and lazy to fight them themselves - IF they even wanted to, which apparently they don't.
The word for that is "loser." You obviously have nothing in your own life worth defending - so you go on making the case for how you can be kept in perpetuity as a cheaply paid mercenary. What a loser!
All these thoughts are my own. Yours are basically re-stated and completely discredited neocon "think tank" bullshit that made its rounds 15 years ago before going out of date 10 years ago. The fact that you're too dumb to realize that people heard all your bs and stopped believing them back then just goes to show how nonexistent any purpose you could have in life.
No wonder you're such a fan of advocating for teen suicide. You never had any reason of your own for living past that point, either. It's like you're in arrested development. A cheaply paid mercenary wanna-be for a rich, lazy Arabian sheikh. Talk about PWNED. It doesn't get any more bitch-slapped than that. Go carry that green flag you fight for right into battle with you, Messenger of Allah.
Yes, bravo. Sick burn. You just stick to what you're good at while the adults dig into an interesting discussion of foreign policy.
Adult? You're the one stupid enough to be a cheaply paid mercenary wanna-be for a rich sheikh getting you to carry his green banner flag into battle saying, "There is no god but God: Muhammad is the Messenger of God." And you DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!
Anyone looking to understand Fenne's patriotism and interests: Look no further than here.
What do they call you in the service, Fennie? The Bitch of Mecca?
Cause that's what you are. You probably ride camels, too. Lord knows they're the only animal that would allow you to fuck them. When their jockeys aren't fucking YOU.
ROFLMAO.
Teen suicide advocate Fenne doing the bidding of the suicide bomb-loving jihadis. Imagine that. It all makes sense now. I bet he's got some IEDs strapped to his vest and gear.
Sorry Ritmo, I didn't catch all that. Could you repeat yourself? Thanks.
And hey you forgot the ice. You work for tips, right? I've always set them at 20%. Is that still the standard?
Sorry Ritmo, I didn't catch all that. Could you repeat yourself? Thanks.
Well if you're too illiterate for five short paragraphs then your claims to reading Bernard Lewis are obviously bullshit. Or maybe like Otto in A Fish Called Wanda you mouth the words but don't understand.
Keep fighting to be a cheaply paid mercenary wanna-be for the Saudi Arabian army. Raise that green flag of yours, high, Messenger of Allah! Yeah, I know you read what I wrote. Just too embarrassed to defend the fact that your ass is owned by the Saudi royal family. Fennie, al-Fayed, the Bitch of Mecca! Doing rent-a-cop service for every emir and sheikh that hasn't been exporting jihad abroad.
You know what I said. You're too dumb to realize how self-demeaned you are. A real American would hang his head in shame at realizing that he's fighting to keep Mecca safe. But you're too dumb to even realize there's no way you can get off the hook of having been called out for THAT!
Dumber than a sand dune, you are. You belong in a heap of camel shit and the bottom of the empty quarter.
Private Fenjamin. Riyadh's best rent-a-cop.
I can imagine the induction ceremonies now.
Does your tour include stints guarding the shopping malls of Medina?
You are one brave man, Faisal Fen. You have the fighting spirit of a thousand of your angry Arabian owners.
Fen said...
When the American Left forced us to abandon Iraq so they could preen and Virtue Signal their embrace of "peace", they threw those courageous Iraqis under the bus. They are all dead now, something I will never forgive the Left for. The Left views the "little brown people" in the Middle East as subhuman savages, held to a bigotry of low expectations, and turns a blind eye to atrocities that would not be tolerated in the West...
The headline in the AP was "Two dead xx wounded in suicide bombing" and the story in the AP was a total pack of lies. Another reporter actually told the story.
Early on in the war about a father who saw a suicide bomber coming towards a crowd of people that included his family. He charged and tackled the bomber and they both died. That story was actually one of the key points in my decision to join.
I watched Biden and Hillary and Obama brag about pulling out and how awesome Iraq was. I watch all the leftists try to blame us for the mess that made. They are truly sad.
I think what we did was a mistake because we cannot trust the American electorate to do the right thing. Bush never should have gone in if his plan was to trust the democrat party in any way to act like responsible human beings. My 3rd and 4th deployments Obama was president. I saw the writing on the wall and got out. He was not only trying to get us killed, he was clearly setting us up for failure. It was his plan all along.
We need to understand this about our country and not set up allies for betrayal when Democrats take over. We know it is going to happen. The world should know too.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Private Fenjamin. Riyadh's best rent-a-cop.
I can imagine the induction ceremonies now.
Does your tour include stints guarding the shopping malls of Medina?
You are one brave man, Faisal Fen. You have the fighting spirit of a thousand of your angry Arabian owners.
Stop being a piece of shit.
Stop being a piece of shit.
He has no idea who he's fighting for.
As a taxpayer paying his worthless salary, I think I have a duty and a right to let him know.
Should I call him the Guardian of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, instead?
That was some world class trolling Ms.Althouse.
As a taxpayer paying his worthless salary, I think I have a duty and a right to let him know.
Around 97,600,000 Americans actually PAY federal income taxes. Since President Trump takes $1 per year in salary your contribution is vanishingly small.
You've had WAY MORE than your fare share of the podium, Ritmo.
Is ritmo whining again?
Did the vodka run out?
Anyway.
back to the topic at hand.
Putin and Iran are there to prop up the regime. When ISIS threatens the regime putin fights ISIS. When the American backed rebels threaten the regime putin fights the American backed rebels.
FEN
It has always been the position of the left that the American creed is illegitimate and only the left and the people they designate own those rights.
Durka,durka,allah, jihad.
Achilles: "Ritmo, stop being a - "
Nah that's okay. Let Ritmo show his true self. His insults no longer sting, maybe because he's made such a spectacle of himself.
TTR,
He's bipolar and off his lithium. It's very obvious. The illusions of superiority, grandeur, the narcissism, the manic commenting....classic.
"1) The spice must flow. Regardless of America's ability to supply itself with domestic energy, the Middle East controls the VARIANCE in oil prices. If the price of oil seesaws wildly because of instability in the region, the entire world Will slip into chaos. You may not fully appreciate the danger of bread costing $3 a loaf in June and $30 in July, but it is considered a potential Extinction Level Event to those paid to worry and plan for such contengencies."
Yes, but what right does that give us to interfere militarily in the region? "The market cure all," does it not? (Not, but that is the mantra of the faux-free-marketeers--"faux" because they always run to the government to be saved from catastrophes of their own making.)
"2) The Middle East is the heart of the Jihad. We have an interest in preventing nation states that are precursors to the Caliphate from acquiring WMDs. We cannot allow suicide bombers access to nuclear weapons. NYC has it coming."
Islamic extremists were few and scattered...until we responded to 9/11 intemperately by invading Afghanistan, and then illegally by invading Iraq...and all the other countries we have since bombed or marched into. It is our ongoing destructive military presence in the region that is driving much or most of the growth of Islamic extremist groups. (Wouldn't you take up arms against foreign forces invading or bombing your town, your nation? The desire for revenge drives violence, fanaticism, and nihilistic rage.)
"3) We have an interest in a stable Middle East so that waves of refugees do not swarm into Western Civilization and overload welfare programs while hijacking the local culture to install Sharia. We already have a preview of the damage a minor wave has done to Europe."
WE are destabilizing the region--intentionally--with our spreading military actions and the resulting chaos and violence spurs people to flee for their own safety. The refugees are our fault.
"4) We have a moral obligation to, as best as we can, protect the human rights of people in the region. When we liberated Iraq, many brave Iraqi men and women risked everything they had to help protect my troops and aid us in reforming their country. When the American Left forced us to abandon Iraq so they could preen and Virtue Signal their embrace of "peace", they threw those courageous Iraqis under the bus. They are all dead now, something I will never forgive the Left for. The Left views the "little brown people" in the Middle East as subhuman savages, held to a bigotry of low expectations, and turns a blind eye to atrocities that would not be tolerated in the West... to quote a wise analyst who's name I am blanking on. I want to say Bernard Lewis, The Crisis of Islam. Pretty sure that's it."
Why do we have this moral obligation? Why and when do you think America ever acts out of moral obligation or intent? We act to serve our strategic global objectives--global political dominance and acquisition of (or control over access to) valuable natural resources, (the motivation of every empire)--and our claims of moral obligation or intent are used to justify our imperial actions. We did not "liberate" Iraq but illegally destroyed its government and the nation's infrastructure. We turned a stable state into a chaotic cauldron of violence. We had no legal right to "liberate" the country even if that had been our actual goal. And I don't think the people I hear referring to the people of the middle east as "little brown people" (or "subhuman savages,"or "muzzies," or even worse terms) are leftists. Could this be projection?
Russia, Iran, NK, China, and Syria all test the US. Fact of life. If the US had allowed the bombing to have no cost, it would have shown the US to be toothless, and a untrustworthy Allie.
What is more interesting in the ME mess, is Trump wants a plan to win. Our former plan under President Obama was about not losing and reducing the US footprint, and letting the Shia counter balance the Sunni.
Unfortunately, events showed even if the US wants a minimal presence in the ME, the locals don't alllow that.
The problem in Afghanistan is the US put in place a strong centralized state, where the country is not ready for that. Traditionally the central gov has been decentralized.
Only real solution I see is Syria needs to be broken up, and perhaps the same with Iraq and even Iran. Chances of this happening are probably close to zero. All are multi cultural countries that are powderkegs.
"If the US had allowed the bombing to have no cost, it would have shown the US to be toothless, and a untrustworthy Allie."
What bombing are you referring to?
"Only real solution I see is Syria needs to be broken up, and perhaps the same with Iraq and even Iran."
Who is going to break these countries up? What will such breaking up accomnplish? Who has legal authority to break them up? They are sovereign nations, just as we are.
The problem is we are destabilizing the region in order to assume direct or proxy authority there, and to assume all the political and material spoils that will come with our taking authority. We may not succeed, but that's what is going on.
We need to vacate the region post-haste.
You've had WAY MORE than your fare share of the podium, Ritmo.
Not really. I think my contributions basically balance out the massive number let loose by the clown car full of conservatives that fill up and tip over the right side of the podium, numerically. It's just that I'm only one, they are many. If it weren't for me, your right-left commenting ratio here would be about 7 to 1.
Per the Guardian article the us claimed the Syrian plane bombed some us supported rebels.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/18/us-plane-shoots-down-syrian-aircraft
On who would break up the countries, I don't know. Syria is broken and I don't see it being patched back together. Assad basically controls the coast, Kurds the North, and Sunnis inland.
Iraq has a similar set up.
The ME at this time does not have true nation states, but is tribal, and treating them as nation states has led to the mess we are in. Iran may be an exception to this. Iran is an empire with a lot of minorities.
The US, especially under Trump, wants to be left alone. Trillions of dollars have been spent in the ME and much blood of the US, with little to show for it. It is going to be a long time before the US invades anyone again as was done in Iraq. In Iraq and Afghanistan the US turned over the country to local authority asap. Not like was done in Germany and Japan after WW2 with a lot better results. But note both were true nation states.
I don't see any good options for the US in the ME, besides become even more Energy independent and keep the price of oil as low as possible. Push energy R&D and energy conservation as hard as possible. And the less monry the ME has to spend causing headaches, the better for the US. I think Thomas Friedman wrote of a need for a Manhatten type project on energy. And I am not supporting the current support of alternate energy that is not cost competitive yet. That is why the focus needs to be in R&D.
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