Writes Scott Adams, about the biggest thing that happened yesterday, as he sees it, which was not the failure to get to a vote on healthcare reform.
[I]n the 3D world of persuasion, Trump just had one of the best days any president ever had: He got promoted from Hitler to incompetent. And that promotion effectively defused the Hitler-hallucination bomb that was engineered by the Clinton campaign.By the way, we were just talking about Scott Adams on the blog yesterday — talking about that Bloomberg article and how he thought it had fake-newsed him — and he stopped by in the comments:
I like the comments where people are reading my mind and determining how much fun I am having, or not having.Makes me think of the old line You must have mistaken me for someone who cares.
The Bloomberg experience was fun for me from top to bottom. That's why I did it. And it went exactly as I told my brother and several others it would. That includes my blog on the experience, which I decided to write before the story appeared. (It was obvious how the article would turn out.)
Based on the reaction on Twitter to my blog, a lot of people liked it and appreciated the glimpse behind the curtain.
You might be confusing me with people who feel shame or anger from this sort of experience. I'm not normal that way. I can see how that would be confusing. I laughed as hard as my brother did in the video on my blog.
You have to care at least enough to say that.
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"He got promoted from Hitler to incompetent"
Eh, I don't think so. At most he got promoted from "Competent Hitler" to "Incompetent Hitler".
Oh please. Walking away from the negotiating table is not an end to the negotiation process. It's just a tactic.
Let us wait and see how incompetent Trump has shown himself to be in this matter after the "insurance" companis and their lobbyists have had some time to work on their Congress critters.
Isn't writing legislation similar to writing briefs, college term papers, an article being prepared for publication, and so forth. They're supposa go through drafts, with each revision being better than its predecessor because it had been subjected to criticism (self-criticism as well as criticism from others such as congressional committees and public comments and testimony from experts, and so forth).
Oh, please, Scott, you were pretty pissed when that guy wrote a book accusing you of defanging abuse of workers through your humor. You devoted a couple strips attacking him, remember? That didn't come off as fun.
I do agree about Trump. All presidents have setbacks. It's the nature of our government.
Actually, I thought our government was supposed to operate like this: put up a bill, debate its merits, vote. At least we got to see what was in this dog's dinner of a bill, unlike Obamacare.
Short-term memory is a useful tool for the journalist. So is not understanding history.
In the hands of the media-actvisit industrial complex, Trump can be simultaneously Hitler and not-Hitler. One may dominate over the other from one issue to the next, but it is a simple mater to switch and switch back.
Adams raises an issue. The best fighting leaders are not embarassed by hit jobs done on them. They just adjust their fire, and fire back for effect.
Another old aphorism on new political leadership is that people need to see them humbled once. Then we trust them more. Think of it as the Navy's Line Crossing Ceremony from pollywog to shellback.
tim maguire said...
In the hands of the media-actvisit industrial complex, Trump can be simultaneously Hitler and not-Hitler."
Just as Bush was simultaneously an evil mastermind and a dolt.
"Another old aphorism on new political leadership is that people need to see them humbled once. Then we trust them more. Think of it as the Navy's Line Crossing Ceremony from pollywog to shellback."
My son just did a short research paper on Winston Churchill. The paragraph on Gallipoli was the only one he really cared about.
One interesting part of yesterday was that Trump wanted a vote so he could see who crossed him. Ryan told him, sorry, not gonna happen.
What if Scott Adams becomes a regular at the Althouse blog?
I see many similarities between the two. Fusion. Cross pollination. Traffic.
"With the failure of the Ryan healthcare bill, the illusion of Trump-is-Hitler has been fully replaced with Trump-is-incompetent meme."
I consider Hitler to have been incompetent. Sure, he seized power, but it also lost it again in rather spectacular fashion.
Original Mike
Trump didn't seize power. He won an election; including Wisconsin. Big difference.
The "Trump is incompetent" meme was around long before he was even elected president.
"What if Scott Adams becomes a regular at the Althouse blog?"
I'm waiting for the day when Trump comments.
Just drops in to say "wrong" about one thing and leaves.
Trump has been President for all of about 60 days. There is almost 4 years left! Have some patience for Criminy sake.
Congress writes and passes the laws. They, not Trump, are responsible for this incompetent mess and dereliction of duty. The President can suggest and cajole, but he can't force a bill to the floor. It isn't a dictatorship.
Trump can only herd cats for so long before he has to give up wasting his time and move on.
The incompetent master genius is a standard liberal trope against Republican leaders.
One does not cancel the other, they are used in alternating fashion without regard for coherence.
There are similarities with Franco. But on the matter of their non healthcare plan:
This wasn't just a matter of higher premiums and higher deductibles, though. Trumpcare also would have repealed the “essential health benefits” that plans are required to cover now. States would have been allowed to write their own rules, so, depending on where you lived, insurance companies might have been able to sell you “insurance” that didn't cover hospitalizations, prescription drugs, maternity care, mental health care and preventive care, and also imposed annual and lifetime limits on your benefits.
Hitler did fine by the Germans. He stole the rest of Europe's wealth for them. His two problems were England and Russia. So he sidelined Russia with a half and half Poland conquest deal, and he allowed England time to quit if they wanted to.
But the damned Scots-Irish half of Churchill refused to surrender. And instead Churchill seduced FDR into joining a Christian Crusade against Hitler. Even that would not have beat him. Attacking Russia beat him. Russia beat Hitler to a pulp. FDR provided supplies and a opened a second front three years later on.
And Russia Today still refuses to let New Germany give old Russian Ukraine areas back to Nazi politicians...NEVER.
That perspective hadn't occurred to me but I'll take it. Trump will adjust and get a tax cut which will cause stocks to go up and businesses to hire more people. Trump gets the job done and if I had available funds and wasn't fully invested in stocks, I'd buy more now. Buyer beware.
Trump cut his loss and moved on, it was the smart thing to do.
The "insurance" companies must have relief one way or another.
Ideology is nice but the company going under and taking me with it, that is serious!
So, Congress is not through with this for long.
States would have been allowed to write their own rules, so, depending on where you lived, insurance companies might have been able to sell you “insurance” that didn't cover hospitalizations, prescription drugs, maternity care, mental health care and preventive care, and also imposed annual and lifetime limits on your benefits. >
Which is why it is essential that people be allowed to buy insurance across state lines.
If you don't want the excessive coverage that a California policy would offer, you can shop elsewhere for something that meets your needs.
If you DO want to be insured for every damned thing under the sun and pay through the nose for it....buy that California policy :-)
The other thing that killed any support for the Rinocare was that there were no provisions to keep illegal aliens from getting subsidized free care with taxpayer money. They removed any of those before attempting to bring this abortion to the floor.
It's too soon for the anti-Trumpsters to gloat. It's early minutes in a long, long game. Remember that Hillary spiked the ball in the third quarter, and look where it landed her.
I am sure David Frum is not highly regarded on this blog, but he has been right about this issue for a long time and writes:
"As Americans lift this worry from their fellow citizens, they’ll discover that they have addressed some other important problems too. They’ll find that they have removed one of the most important barriers to entrepreneurship, because people with bright ideas will fear less to quit the jobs through which they get their health care."
Trump's comment would be, "Hello everybody at the Althouse blog. Beautiful."
In my business consulting days, a wise CEO once told me, "if you are not making mistakes (i.e., failing) you are not working hard enough at your job."
He also said, "I make 10-15 decisions a day (about running a $4B revenue company he founded). If half of those decisions are good ones, I have had a really good day."
I do not know if Trump will be a good POTUS or not. I voted for him because he was not Hillary. I do know that he is trying hard and will make mistakes. I suspect he will learn from his mistakes and get better over time.
I hope the Republicans learn as well. So far, their track record is poor. On a more positive note, at least they are reading the bill before deciding to vote. It's not like they have to vote for the bill to learn what is in the bill.
"Which is why it is essential that people be allowed to buy insurance across state lines."
Exactly. I knew the bill was a POS the second I heard it made no provisions for that. It deserved to die.
tcrosse said...
It's too soon for the anti-Trumpsters to gloat. It's early minutes in a long, long game. Remember that Hillary spiked the ball in the third quarter, and look where it landed her."
You'd think they would have learned their lesson about premature gloating, but they're too stupid and arrogant for that.
I don't know that I agree with Adams' analysis here, but he's operating on a different logic than I am, so that doesn't count for much. I do think that Republicans dodged a bullet here by voting down the bill -- it was polling terribly and you had Republican congressmen coming out and basically giving Pelosi's famous like that you have to pass it to find out what's in it, which was a pretty good hint that the people who were supposed to vote on it weren't really sure what was in it.
If Republicans hadn't just watched the Democrats spend seven years losing the House, the Senate, the Presidency, and probably the Supreme Court, paying for their dumb decision to ram Obamacare through just to give their gormless president a win, then maybe Ryan could have forced this one through too. But -- somewhat to my surprise -- Republican congressmen aren't that dumb. They just watched this story. They know how it ends, and they didn't want to lose their seats just to give Trump (or Ryan) a legislative win.
They may dress it up in principle, sure, but I think the fear of suffering the kind of electoral devastation Democrats have suffered over the past 8 years was probably the prime motivating factor here.
Blogger David Begley said..."Original Mike[:]Trump didn't seize power. He won an election; including Wisconsin. Big difference."
David: I have no idea what in my comment you think you're responding to.
The thing about the failed healthcare bill is that the MSM carried so little about the actual contents. It was mostly horse race stuff.
The other thing that killed any support for the Rinocare was that there were no provisions to keep illegal aliens from getting subsidized free care with taxpayer money Tell me about what that provision looks like. How do you prevent people from getting care and not paying for it?
The "insurance" companies cannot be very happy with the Democrats either. The Democrats lured them with visions of a fantasy world where the Government would drive the customers to their doors, there would be no competition, and the profits guaranteed.
It is now clear that that is not going to happen. Obamacare is dead, and whatever comes next is going to have to be something different. Much more different than Ryancare.
You can laugh and find it funny and still care. You agree to do an interview, and they essentially lie about you. You should care.
Remember the time I declined an interview because I anticipated that it would be hit piece, and then they wrote the article anyway and included in the hit the fact that I didn't want to do an interview and how that meant I was an egomaniac?
Looking back, the failure of the healthcare bill was the best thing that ever happened to Clinton. Obama's bill almost failed, but he ended up throwing away his presidency to save it.
I don't think healthcare in America is susceptible to a single bill hero solution. I would actually prefer incremental reforms, even if some of the bad stuff sticks around while people figure out alternatives.
Remember, passing the bill is the easy part. After that, you've got to justify the new status quo.
I cared, but I resisted the urge to write a letter to the paper about how declining publicity is not normally seen as evidence of being an attention whore.
I didn't want the attention.
Tell me about what that provision looks like. How do you prevent people from getting care and not paying for it?
The subsidized insurance policies provided through Obamacare and also through the proposed Rino/Ryancare are full blown insurance policies that others were forced to purchase at the cost of hundreds of dollars a month, thousands of dollars a year. Illegal aliens have no right to taxpayer funded insurance policies.
I am making a distinction between insurance policies subsidized by the tax payer and Medicaid, which is also subsidized by the taxpayer and which is intended for the very poor. I don't like either, but that is a different discussion.
Now, if the individual States insist on giving Medicaid funds for individual instances of care (not ongoing insurance policies), thereby taking those funds that have been allotted away from the legal citizens of those states, then I suppose they can do that.
Of course, I don't want people to be sick, infect other people or suffer. So there needs to be some fall back emergency medical care for them, the illegals. Not just out of humanity, but because to allow sick people to wander around the country is to put United States citizens in danger.
Illegals are NOT entitled to full blown, cover everything, policies where the subsidies are going from the tax payer TO the insurance companies. To allow this is to continue on the death spiral of Obamacare, guarantee rising costs and a continued slow motion collapse of the system. It doesn't fix anything.
I do suspect that Trump is incompetent at many things a President is expected to be competent at. But he's the President for the next four years, so you have to hope that he figures out a way to paper over the bad parts and focus on the good parts.
Passing an unpopular bill on party lines early in the term actually sounds like a sucker move to me. Better to take half a loaf over and over until you've got all you need.
Honestly, I think the strongest move in these negotiations might be the one least popular among the true believers: Don't call it an Obamacare repeal.
If you call it a repeal then whatever follows, no matter how little you like it, must be Trumpcare by default. Democrats won't vote for it, and are now the party of opposition to the status quo.
If you focus on passing a series of reform bills, you can try to pick off Democratic votes. Reforming Obamacare and fixing its problems is something you can come back to over and over again.
"Just drops in to say "wrong" about one thing and leaves."
Hope he adds that he's President and you're not.
That was a classic.
"Remember the time I declined an interview because I anticipated that it would be hit piece, and then they wrote the article anyway and included in the hit the fact that I didn't want to do an interview and how that meant I was an egomaniac?"
Yep. Perfect example of the writer having the story written before he interviews the subject.
BTW, if the MSM was reporting on Scott's comment ala Trump the headline would be "Adams claims he couldn't care less about Bloomberg piece" and then, having set up straw man, would've knocked it down with plenty of snark about how Adams really did care.
That's why you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If you stay silent, then a hit piece goes unchallenged. If you say, you don't really care and mildly point out a few inaccuracies, then you're a drama queen who can't take criticism.
" I would actually prefer incremental reforms, even if some of the bad stuff sticks around while people figure out alternatives."
I agree with you.
Just make Obamacare optional. Those who want the Medicaid,which is what Obamacare is, can stay with it but states will get block grants to fund Medicaid.
Than allow catastrophic care policies to be sold.
That would be a start.
I also suspect that Trump is treating Bannon as a guru, rather than a weird guy who made a good political bet early on. I wouldn't mind if the failure of this negotiation leads him to reevaluate some of his advisors.
" I would actually prefer incremental reforms, even if some of the bad stuff sticks around while people figure out alternatives."
I agree also. There are many steps that could be taken that would be palatable to both Democrats and Republicans, Moderates and Conservatives. It doesn't have to, and probably shouldn't be a monumental gigantic bill.
Catastrophic policies as well as policies that can be tailored to what you need or want and exclude those other items. I don't need maternity, pre-natal, substance abuse counseling, pediactric care and many other items.
Allow people to chose the deductibles that they want or can afford and the premiums are adjusted for that.
Uninsurable people....need to have a completely separate system set up in order to keep the premiums for the rest of the population from being exorbitant.
Allow insurance to be bought across state lines. Increasing competition and keeping the prices down.
HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS!!!!
Do something about the cost of prescription drugs.
All things that can be done in small pieces that would go a long way to making the system better.
That old adage-------------How do you eat an elephant?
One bite at at time.
Obamacare is one giant elephant. Let's take our time and do it right.
"Illegal aliens have no right to taxpayer funded insurance policies."
Ok, but that is a little different than what you originally said, but I understand.
"...there were no provisions to keep illegal aliens from getting subsidized free care with taxpayer money."
People will always be able to get care they don't pay for, the question is, what is the response to that? Is it cheaper just to give them coverage? I am not an expert, so I know if every locality gives "taxpayer funded insurance policies" to undocumented immigrants, or not. What happens in your area? Where I live, a sanctuary city, almost all immigrants can get health insurance of one kind or another, and they have to renew every 3 or 6 months. If they lapse, there are good public health clinics where they can get adequate care for no charge and medications for limited cost (because among other reasons, Target, Walmart, and other places like Good Rx offer reduced cost meds). Hospitalization is different. But again, they'd still get the care, they just would not pay for it.
Those who want the Medicaid,which is what Obamacare is
Huh?
I had non Medicaid Obamacare recently. It was purchased on the exchange. It was definitely not Medicaid, which I did not qualify for.
The leftie play is to say that Trump is an incompetent orange clown (though psychotically dangerous); and that Steve Bannon (ALT RIGHT!!!)is actually running things.
Just like W was an incompetent idiot, and Dick Cheney (or Karl Rove) was actually running things.
I forget who was supposed to be running things back when Reagan was just a dumb senile actor, but there must have been someone(Al Haig?, Oliver North?, Nancy's Astrologer??)
Couldn't have been Jim Baker -- not scary enough.
Health care reform begins with education reform, but that is not a viable option.
Insurance reform begins with affirming its purpose, but that would imply responsibility.
Economic progress begins with restoring capitalist markets, but then what leverage would mortal gods and goddesses enjoy without their monopolies and practices.
Unfortunately, low quality of health is a progressive condition.
So, the abortion chambers will not close. Political progress is the overlapping and convergent interest.
Trump is moving against the grain on the Left and far-Right/Left nexus. The effort to recharacterize Obamacare and progress the status quo is not insurmountable, but like the prophecy of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming, and the female chauvinist demand for abortion rites, the obstacles are clear and progressive. I wonder if a mere president can overcome the extraordinary inertia created by trillion dollar special and peculiar interests.
Re: Zach:
I also suspect that Trump is treating Bannon as a guru, rather than a weird guy who made a good political bet early on. I wouldn't mind if the failure of this negotiation leads him to reevaluate some of his advisors.
Not sure which advisors you think it's going to affect negatively, but my guess would be Paul Ryan and Reince Preibus are going to have significantly diminished credibility as a result of this. Health care doesn't really seem like a Bannon issue.
Original Mike:
I completely misread your comment. I thought that you wrote that Trump seized power; not Hitler.
Tired from basketball last night. Sorry.
You had me confused, David. No worries.
"It was purchased on the exchange. It was definitely not Medicaid, which I did not qualify for."
Obamacare is basically Medicaid with higher income limits. There are, I'm sure, some people who like $2500/month policies with $10,000 deductibles.
Those may be what you are talking about. The people who say they LIKE Obamacare are the ones getting Medicaid with a different label.
Check your docter network to see.
Obamacare is basically Medicaid with higher income limits. There are, I'm sure, some people who like $2500/month policies with $10,000 deductibles.
It doesn't sound like you know what you are talking about. My policy was less than $250 per month.
The way you talk about this is as if it is some strange thing with which you have no familiarity at all. There are actual human beings who have purchased insurance policies on the exchange created by Obamacare, which is more than the expansion of Medicaid. For me, Obamacare was hardly "basically Medicaid."
"It doesn't sound like you know what you are talking about. My policy was less than $250 per month."
Your welcome BTW. For 250$ a month some dozens, if not more, people are 2500 dollar a month policies and $10,000 deductables. You get yor $250 a month policy because other people are forced under penalty of law to carry you. Congratulations our government has become a little more dictatorial for you to have health insurance.
Fuck the Republic!
Another person who does not know what they are talking about. At any rate, though it may not be much consolation for you, I now have employer provided health insurance.
"The way you talk about this is as if it is some strange thing with which you have no familiarity at all."
Obviously, you have found the holy frail of health insurance,
Why do you suppose there is so much angst about the problems of sky high premiums and sky high deductibles?
I assume you are on the Obama train which protects his disciples from all pain and suffering. Congratulations.
Others are not so lucky.
The unintended consequence of a World War II policy mistake distorted the U.S. health-insurance system, and reformers have been trying patchwork solutions to solve those unanticipated problems up until Obamacare dumped yet another layer of misguided policy onto what was already a mess. The tangle is now so perplexing that perhaps, once Congress takes the necessary first step of passing the House health-insurance reform bill tomorrow, legislators might consider further reforms that erase the original error instead of merely papering it over.
Fortunately none of this applies to you.
Sorry, "Holy Grail"
You either have low premiums and high deductibles or lower deductibles and high premiums, and that was true pre-Obamacare, during Obamacare, and now with my employer plan. The difference is that the premiums were less with my Obamacare policy than they were with a policy I was thinking of purchasing, 10 plus years ago, pre-Obamacare, but didn't. I have had one really good insurance plan in my life (it was employer based), no deductible, which paid for nearly everything. That was for about 5 years, then I left, but got to keep that plan for an extended period of time (thanks to Obama), paid for the entire thing myself. I am not immune or privileged, holy grail whatever, all I was saying was that the insurance plans I researched in the years before Obama were extremely expensive and confining, and I ended up just not having insurance for a while, whereas at least I could get covered and see my doctors with Obamacare (NON MEDICAID) policies. I again have an employer based plan, and it's got a high deductible, not $5,000, but less than that, but which is an annoyance. My basics are covered. It's not a great plan by any stretch.
Holy Fail...
So you got a $250 / month policy?
I went to obambacare web site for an estimate (no personal info required)
https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/
I put in 63050 for zip, $100K/year, male age 40
Community Health Choice · Community Health Choice HMO Bronze 003
Estimated monthly premium
$255.33
Deductible
$5,000
Emergency room care: $500 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $10 Copay after deductible
Primary doctor: $40 Copay after deductible
Specialist doctor: $65 Copay after deductible
Estimated total yearly costs
$3,182
But then again I haven't spent $300 on health care in total the last 10 years.
OK if I opt out of $8K/year before any benefit and spend the money on cigarettes?
This blog post is about healthcare, but:
traditionalguy said...
Attacking Russia beat him. Russia beat Hitler to a pulp. FDR provided supplies and a opened a second front three years later on.
Russia, if it had had to supply itself, was a goner. "Through the Murmansk Run, the United States supplied the Soviet Union with 15,000 aircraft, 7,000 tanks, 350,000 tons of explosives, and 15,000,000 pairs of boots. American boots made a difference on the Eastern Front, especially during the harsh winters." This is a quote from this short synopsis of the American Merchant Marine during WWII. 15 million pairs of boots. Russia couldn't shoe it's own army. 350,000 TONS of explosives. Think that made a difference in Russian efforts? Those supplies, BTW, are a low estimate. From another site: "Were the Murmansk convoys instrumental in keeping Russia in the war? They carried more than 22,000 aircraft, 375,000 trucks, 8,700 tractors, 51,500 jeeps, 1,900 locomotives, 343,700 tons of explosives, a million miles of field-telephone cable, plus millions of shoes, rifles, machine guns, auto tires, radio sets, and other equipment."
Just drops in to say "wrong" about one thing and leaves.
How in the world will you know it's him?
Maybe the problem is we ought to quit talking about "insurance"
and start talking about free health care
I think the government ought to get out of the insurance business completely
fuck that
but the government might want to provide some free health care
as an investment in our society
for instance
people who serve in the military should have free health care
they're probably going to need it
also maybe coal miners and other people doing very dangerous things
that are critical to our economy
should have free health care
actually scratch that
the government should force any company employing people who do very dangerous things
to provide that health care
but people doing office work should feel no moral or legal obligation to provide free health care to their employees
you're in a fucking office
the one exception maybe is pregnancy and birth
you know you're going to need a doctor for that one
pro-lifers and liberals can get together and agree that pregnant women should have a free obstetrician
but you have to simultaneously defund Planned Parenthood
recognize the humanity of unborn children
and say that abortion is wrong and we will not pay for that
so that might not happen
but it's the right thing to do
also as a public service
we might use PBS or one of these government-funded networks
to run photographs of aborted children
the market's really really really not interested in atrocities
you should see my book sales!
Trump should think about putting Kevin Williamson in charge of public radio or public television
or any of the NR guys
or Althouse!
if she's bored with retirement already
Althouse would be awesome at that gig
not that Althouse is a pro-lifer
but she has awesome free speech commitments
that she puts above and beyond her personal feelings
But then again I haven't spent $300 on health care in total the last 10 years.
Then you won't be happy with anything, especially given that you know exactly what is going to happen to you.
Do you not have health insurance now?
"Holy Frail of health insurance" sounds about right.
No need to correct.
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