Well, he talked about you, so you talk about him. What he said, at his press conference yesterday, was:
The failing New York Times wrote a big, long front-page story yesterday. And it was very much discredited, as you know. It was — it’s a joke....And here's Michael Goodwin at The New York Post: "Sorry, media — this press conference played very differently with Trump’s supporters."
Amid feverish reports of chaos on his team and with Democrats fantasizing that Russia-gate is another Watergate, Trump took center stage to declare that reports of his demise are just more fake news. Far from dead, he was positively exuberant. His performance at a marathon press conference Thursday was a must-see-TV spectacle as he mixed serious policy talk with standup comedy and took repeated pleasure in whacking his favorite piñata, the “dishonest media.”...And they know that however many times he does it, they will need to sit there and take it, allow themselves to be used. Can they boycott the press conference? Can they become disruptive in the room? Can they phrase their questions with ever heightening belligerence and hatred? I think they know they can't.
Trump’s detractors immediately panned the show as madness, but they missed the method behind it and proved they still don’t understand his appeal. Facing his first crisis in the Oval Office, he was unbowed in demonstrating his bare-knuckle intention to fight back. He did it his way. Certainly no other president, and few politicians at any level in any time, would dare put on a show like that.
In front of cameras, and using the assembled press corps as props, he conducted a televised revival meeting to remind his supporters that he is still the man they elected...
Trump, first, last and always, matches the mood of the discontented. Like them, he is a bull looking for a china shop.* That’s his ace in the hole and he played it almost to perfection....He didn't just buy some time. He showed how he can take them all on. They can keep fighting him, and I understand they want to. But visualize where this will go and who will win. I think the people at the NYT really believe they can bring Trump down. But can they? I think Trump has a big advantage in this fight. And yet, what is the fight and what constitutes winning? Trump kept saying "the failing New York Times." For the NYT, winning may simply be getting and maintaining a monetizable readership. Trump doesn't have to fall. All can win. Perhaps that is Trump's art-of-the-deal game: We can all win. He said it at the press conference: "I know how good everybody’s ratings are right now."
Just three weeks into his term, Democrats, in and out of the media, smelled blood. Many already were going for the kill. They won’t get it, at least now. Trump bought himself time yesterday....
Perhaps it's pro-wrestling — a theatrical, hard-fought fake fight. I'm only a member of the audience, like you. I want to know what I am looking at. And we also do need a President. The show cannot supplant government. It can't just be a show. And I must say, I'm either nervous or disbelieving when I hear Trump talk about how much he watches the TV news shows. He does things, then watches on TV to see how they look. After doing the press conference, he must have settled down in front of a television to watch himself on TV. I'm picturing him enjoying that show immensely — laughing, commenting, bragging. Imagine watching him watching himself. What would that be like? Freaky? Great fun? A horror show?
___________________________
* Long ago, George Orwell wrote:
A newly invented metaphor assists thought by evoking a visual image, while on the other hand a metaphor which is technically ‘dead’ (e. g. iron resolution) has in effect reverted to being an ordinary word and can generally be used without loss of vividness. But in between these two classes there is a huge dump of worn-out metaphors which have lost all evocative power and are merely used because they save people the trouble of inventing phrases for themselves.If you would just follow that advice, you won't find yourself saying something as silly as "a bull looking for a china shop." Bulls aren't hot to relocate to china shops! They're not on a mission to break china. They just would break a lot of china if they ever were in a china shop, which never happens.
पोस्ट्स
२३३ टिप्पण्या:
233 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Great footnote. Talk about burying the lede.*
*Intentional
"They just would break a lot of china if they ever were in a china shop, which never happens."
Not quite never.
Being There. A rerun.
An astonishing piece of performance art.
All the MSMs fevered imaginings and wishcastings are only continuing to hurt their credibility with the general public. Just now the AP just tried to push some uncorroborated tale (phaque gnus) about the Administration using a 100k National Guardsmen for immigration enforcement.
You can't staunch the bleeding until you realize your actually bleeding.
"ace in the hole"†
†Also a dead metaphor.
I like the bull looking for a china shop metaphor. Of course, bulls don't go around looking for china shops, just as, of course, Presidents don't go around picking fights with the entire press corps.
Bulls never actually go looking for trouble. You have to annoy or threaten them.
In the case of Trump vs the press you may have some sort of bull analogy, but it's not clear who is the bull. I think its Trump who deliberately provokes, inviting a injudicious response, which he then punishes. He is the whole bullfight cuadrilla. Granted, in this case I don't see where or how he will end the game by inserting the estoque.
Also, "the press" is a euphemism. Better said, it is "the system", of which the press, narrowly owned and centrally coordinated, is a mere operating department. The press is the propaganda branch of the powers-that-be, or the powers-that-were. The public battle of the press vs Trump is just the more visible manifestation of the underlying struggle.
> I like the bull looking for a china shop metaphor.
I'd say this was a case of the china shop looking for a bull.
Democrats, in and out of the media, smelled blood.‡ Many already were going for the kill.‡‡
‡ Dead.
‡‡ As a doornail.
As long as he doesn't forget to actually Do Stuff, these steel cage matches will go over well with his supporters. He can't forget that the Left is most afraid/insane when he's actually using the presidential authority he was given. Beyond the bully pulpit.
Perhaps it's pro-wrestling — a theatrical, hard-fought fake fight.
"There's no rhyme or reason to what he's doing... All down into the turnbuckle, loves it, lapping it up with that lizard-green tongue... HE'S A FREAK!!!"
Beloved pro wrestler George the Animal Steele died yesterday. RIP.
Myers had dyslexia and was also diagnosed with Crohn's Disease in 1988, an inflammatory bowel disease which currently has no cure but can be brought into remission. In 1998, doctors told Myers that his Crohn's Disease had gone into remission and that he no longer suffered from any of the disease's symptoms. In 2002, to prevent the symptoms from returning, Myers had his colon removed.
Myers was a devout Christian. He attended the First Baptist Church Merritt Island, and lived in Cocoa Beach, Florida with his wife Pat, whom he married before he entered Michigan State in 1956. Together, Pat and Jim have two sons, Dennis and Randy, and a daughter, Felicia.
…Steele is referenced in the Seinfeld episode, The Bizarro Jerry. Repulsed by the "man hands" of his current girlfriend, Jerry complains, "I feel like I'm dating George 'the Animal' Steele."
"I like the bull looking for a china shop metaphor. Of course, bulls don't go around looking for china shops, just as, of course, Presidents don't go around picking fights with the entire press corps."
But Presidents do deliberately get in a room surrounded by members of the press.
Once there, it's at least using the old expression correctly, because he might be like a bull in a china shop in that his normal movements — being what he is — cause a lot of damage to the members of the press — who would have to be thought of as breakable.
The bull in the china shop — assuming he ever go there — would not be "picking a fight" with the china — that is, TRYING to break it. He would just happen to break it as he moved about according to his nature.
Trump's press conference reminded me of a Marx Brothers film.
"Can they boycott the press conference?"
Sure they can. But that will only elevate the status and opportunities of the new cadre of reporters which DJT has invited into the Press Room. A move which the MSM very much dislikes.
And should they boycott Trump's press conferences, it strikes me that this could be a case of getting Wally Pipp's Disease. Pipp was the starting 1st baseman for the Yankees who, for one reason or another, decided to take a day off in June, 1925. He was replaced by Lou Gehrig. Pipp never again started as a NYY, riding the pine for the rest of his Yankee years until he was traded.
I thought the image was fresh and apt. It twisted the image of the accidental horror of a bull that....somehow.....found itself in the tight confines of the aisles of ceramics and pottery to one where the bull, knowing fully what will happen, goes in seach of the Haviland and Limoges.
Except in this case, it's Kmart kitchenware, but the point was made.
- Krumhorn
The great thing about yesterday, in my view, is that Trump was so open and blunt in his attacks on the media. He was not cagey or evasive or passive-aggressive. He put them on notice that he is keeping track of the coverage and will act accordingly. On some level, Trump calling the media dishonest is a challenge for them to raise their game. The charge has been out there forever but no president has ever put them on blast like this. If they just do their jobs, they can prove him wrong.
For far too long, the media and the government have been too close. Reporters give or offer favorable coverage in exchange for better access and tips. Administrations of both parties have disseminated propaganda, including some outright lies, through these reporters. This is why reporters and government officials have traditionally been so "civil" to each other. They work together to meet their separate needs.
Unfortunately for the media, the people have stopped believing them.
Six sentences into Brooks: On the other hand, I have trouble seeing exactly how this administration ends.
Impeachment fantasies are so very Underpants Gnomish.
MSM are not the hall monitors of the zeitgeist anymore. I think some of them are beginning to realize that.
SayAahh said...
Being There. A rerun.
Not a good analogy at all. It's been a long time since I saw "Being There," but as I recall the Peter Sellars character was beloved by both the media and public for repeating vague, vapid, New Agey-sounding generalities.
Obama was the "Being There" president.
This morning, CNN settled on the argument that Trump used his whole press conference and didn't talk about getting people jobs- which is what the people who voted for him wanted.
So today he talked about getting jobs- and CNN decided he over promised.
What is the purpose of this news format where, hour after hour, we have people on to tell us their opinions about what we just saw with our own eyes?
Twaddle. Trump will be brought down by KremlinGate. Everyone - the public and the media - expect Trump's press performance to be just like yesterday. It energizes his supporters and repels everyone else. So it is still a net-net.
The media haven't forgotten about KremlinGate, nor has the intelligence community, the Democrats and most of the public.
KremlinGate is the only game in town now. Everything else is noise including from Trump.
And it's always the same people! Why do I care what Nia Malika Henderson or Karen Tumulty have to say? I *know* what they are going to say.
We'll have to form an underground network to bypass the special and peculiar interests, especially anti-native factions, [class] diversitists, and other Pro-Choicers, in the Fourth Estate, in order to get the real news.
I'm reminded of Munro Leaf and Robert Lawson's Ferdinand the Bull
Ferdinand resembles Trump, does he not? This is how Trump sees himself.
And here is the media.
What is a bull to do?
Actually, Trump's relationship with the press reminds me of the Roadrunner and Wile. E. Coyote. The coyote was always sure that the Acme missile or giant slingshot or anvil dropped off the cliff was going to get the Road Runner this time.
Meep, meep!
"Perhaps it's pro-wrestling — a theatrical, hard-fought fake fight."
Super smart comment by Althouse. Per usual.
My sense is that Trump's involvement in pro-wrestling is every much important to learn how he operates and thinks as his real estate work and his TV show.
Even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs
Isn't this redolent of how they described Raegan? He was just a mouthpiece for others who wrote his scripts for him to deliver. He was not intellectually gifted. A dullard. Even a bit dangerous.
Turns out, he was very sharp and savvy, and wrote a journal by hand for years that reflected every idea he expressed.
- Krumhorn
> Obama was the "Being There" president.
Yes, and I walked out on the movie. Dull, it was.
Yesterday, Congresswoman Jackie Speir tweeted this:
Jackie Speier @RepSpeier 22h22 hours ago
More
Describing @POTUS as unhinged at today's press conference is kind. This is scary. #25thAmendment
-------
She was just on CNN with Brianna Keilor. Was she reprimanded or asked to explain? Was she lectured? Nooooo. She was treated with respect. And Keilor asked her what the Democrats are going to do to push back against President Trump.
The problem is, we saw you, CNN. We saw the way you treated Obama. Every Republican would have been asked to denounce such an outrageous thing to say against President Obama. Then they would have been asked when they will stop obstructing him.
Democrats, you are unhinged. I don't know what you want to do about it, but know that you are unhinged.
To these people, "Trump supporters" are just as much the enemy as Trump himself. They're the "deplorable" remember? Bill Maher summed up this mentality perfectly in one of his closing monologues: "Democrats in America were put on Earth to do one thing, drag the ignorant hillbilly half of this country into the next century, which in their case is the 19th." That's a concise an encapsulation as you're likely to get on the smug contempt the establishment has for huge swaths of American voters. That's why progressives churn out articles that are full of giddy delight over the demographic extinction of whites. Once the country has been purged of the menace of evil white men, progressives will finally have the utopia they so desire. Of course, oddly enough this utopia is visually absent from Latin America or Africa, whose social and economic problems far outpace anything we have in the United States. Oddly, the utopia progressives dream of seems to be confined to lily white Scandinavia. I'm sure the irony is completely lost on them.
Speaking of metaphors, how well does Trump describing his White House operation as "a fine-tuned machine" work?
@Jim R
"Hall monitors of the zeitgeist"
Totally stealing that.
"And we also do need a President."
Trump knows that media has to be, if not defeated, at least beaten back, for him to be able to succeed in what he is trying to do as President. Public perceptions do matter for confidence in the economy, changes in the immigration policies, willingness to change school systems, etc. Events such as yesterday's, and the associated coverage, demonstrate to the 20% or so of the public that is in the middle how biased most of the media against the right, and now that 20% will put less faith in the negative stories they read/hear about Pres Trump and his policies.
So yesterday, he was absolutely being Presidential.
Luke Lea said...
Speaking of metaphors, how well does Trump describing his White House operation as "a fine-tuned machine" work?
Maybe he drives a British-made car.
I rolled my eyes when I saw the Brooks headline this morning. Confirmation bias is real. They can't see anything else at this point. It's becoming silly.
I think it was more like a veteran circus ringmaster, or perhaps an expert lion tamer going into the cage with the beasts.
"Describing @POTUS as unhinged at today's press conference is kind. This is scary."
The thing is, that only drives people who didn't see the presser to look it up online, to see just how crazy Orange Donnie was. When they actually watch it, you don't see him acting unhinged at all. He spoke in measured tones and was quite calm and confident. When the Dems make pronouncements like that, their base is happy - but as we saw in November, their base isn't enough.
"Maybe he drives a British-made car."
Credit where credit's due, ARM -- that was fucking funny!
David Brooks really let himself go. It's amusing to see him described as "Conservative."
Of course, there are Republicans who sound like him. Bill Kristol, for example.
Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state.
This is a fight to the death between Trump and the Deplorables on one side and The Deep State on the other.
I just hope it isn't literally to the death. I just hope he keeps his own security close.
Oddly, the utopia progressives dream of seems to be confined to lily white Scandinavia. I'm sure the irony is completely lost on them.
And that is going rapidly as they admit Muslims. Malmo is a no go zone.
"The Media tomorrow will say Trump was ranting and raving"... since he said it, they couldn't. But they spent a lot of time in their online thesauruses (thesaurusii?) coming up with all manner of synonyms showing, once again, that Trump was right.
Trump cannot end the Democrat circle jerk that is the leftmedia. He can only use the bull pulpit to discredit it. He can also strengthen the competition with selective, well orchestrated coverage as the Dems and the circle jerk have done for years.
He is not smooth enough to pull this off extemporaneously, nor is his team. It needs to be planned and orchestrated. It is never necessary to answer an interviewer's questions at the expense of what you want to say.
>>Confirmation bias is real.
I never knew about confirmation bias. But once I learned about it, I started seeing it everywhere.
It's more like this: the press think they're playing chess. Move and counter-move.
Trump is not even at the board. He's behind them lashing their asses with a paddle.
You win the game against the press by not playing.
exhelodrvr1 said...
Trump knows that media has to be, if not defeated, at least beaten back, for him to be able to succeed in what he is trying to do as President. Public perceptions do matter for confidence in the economy, changes in the immigration policies, willingness to change school systems, etc. Events such as yesterday's, and the associated coverage, demonstrate to the 20% or so of the public that is in the middle how biased most of the media against the right, and now that 20% will put less faith in the negative stories they read/hear about Pres Trump and his policies.
So yesterday, he was absolutely being Presidential.
2/17/17, 1:14 PM
Agreed. I equate that press conference as battle ground prep for his agenda: soften up and weaken the resistance.
The impeachment fantasies boggle my mind. I have a group of very lefty friends who discuss the impeachment as if the papers are already drawn up. I guess they think that congressional Republicans want to impeach Trump. They are also waiting for the video of the golden shower from Moscow. Any day. Trump has disrupted these friends' lives so badly that they talk of not being able to sleep at night.
News blast. Pruitt was just confirmed. When I remember how Bush tried to sweet talk the enviros and coddle the EPA, and I see what Pruitt will be doing, it's just unbelievable that we finally got a president who will take action. He's not a bull in a china shop. He's a gunslinger--Paladin, maybe, who just walked into the saloon and isn't going to take any shit from anyone.
"David Brooks really let himself go. It's amusing to see him described as "Conservative."
Of course, there are Republicans who sound like him. Bill Kristol, for example.
Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state."
Brooks and Kristol sound very much like the "life long Republican" who frequents this blog.
I had read several accounts of the press conference yesterday and also a few tweets. The consensus was that Trump had lambasted the media, or that he was unhinged, and out of control.
The more left wing accounts were full of horror and the right wing full of glee.
I didn't really know what to expect when I finally had time to actually sit down to watch it late last night.
Based on what I had seen reported all day,I expected to see bodies on the floor, defiant media with upraised fists of fury at the VERY NERVE OF THAT MAN, or shaken reporters weeping into their notebooks as smoke poured out of the Orange One's ears.
What I DIDN'T expect was the amount of actual information that was given and the kind of bantering back and forth. I certainly didn't expect the calls for "Can we do this again next week?" and "When can we have another conference." That I heard as he walked away from the podium.
But he was exactly right on one thing. It doesn't matter what he says or does it will be reported at unhinged ranting.
Apparently they just can't see or report anything else. To the snake-phobic every snake is a rattler poised to strike and to a Democrat every Republican is an unhinged despot.
@exiledonmainstreet
Trump's speech pattern is difficult to listen to and comprehend. The president reminds me of the President Chauncey Gardiner character in Being There. Trump's speech is so disconnected and his statements are so conflicted he requires interpretation. Witness the media falling all over themselves explaining his Palestinian/Israeli two states solution. It requires an Althouse to translate and explain his message intent. Very much akin to the "vague, vapid, generalities" of Chauncey that were translated and interpreted by everyone as being deeply profound.
The NYT, WaPo, CNN et. al. are generating lots of press today in an attempt to discern what he said. If you haven't already done so, read Prof. Althouse's translation of the presser. She might as well have been doing it for Gardiner.
Trump's presentations are a blank canvas for the listener to complete.
Is there a method in the madness? I honestly don't know. Do you?
Or is he Gardiner.
"Bull looking for a china shop" is not a tired metaphor devoid of meaning. It is a humorous play on the tired "bull in a china shop" metaphor. It evokes a cartoonish bull on an anthropomorphized mission to tear some brittle, effete shit up. Which is Trump vs. Press. If a different metaphor were used to evoke something that actually happens, (uh, a cat tearing up furniture, a bear eating a fish, a terrier shaking the life out of a squirrel, a driver purposefully running over a turtle?) it would not be funny.
>>The impeachment fantasies boggle my mind.
He's been in office for less than a month. These people are unhinged.
johns said...
He's a gunslinger--Paladin, maybe, who just walked into the saloon and isn't going to take any shit from anyone.
2/17/17, 1:38 PM
Good visual. A whisky drinking, cussing, Paladin. Not a saint, not by a long shot but still one of the good guys hired to drive all of the robber-barons out of town.
What ruined the "bull in a china shop" metaphor for me is they actually tested it on Mythbusters. It wasn't exactly a china shop; it was a several rows of poorly constructed shelves filled with cheap breakable china all arranged in a bullpen. The bulls actually actively avoided the shelves quite well. One sideswiped a set of shelves and it fell down, but that thing was barely standing to begin with and the bull barely touched it. You can see the highlights here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzw2iBmRsjs
If you put a bull in a china shop with very narrow walkways it could not fit through, then it would probably make a huge mess. But then again so would pretty much anything else. Actually, a deer would probably be more dangerous, as would an unsupervised toddler.
And as to David, of coarse you still have trouble seeing how the Trump administration survives. You would need to actually take your head out of your @ss and really look at current events to understand them.
SayAahh, in reply, I'm reposting two comments which were in the thread analyzing the presser. I don't think I would go as far as Richard Dillman, but I don't believe Trump is simply up there doing a stream-of-consciousness ramble:
Richard Dillman said...
Look at his rhetorical strategies. There are many -- colloquial diction and phrasing, careful control of his personas, artistically organic form, a dialectic method that thrives on give and take, ingratiation with specific audience members, riffing, wit, control of his own tone,
awareness of multiple audiences simultaneously, setting the agenda through his pauses, shaping the rhythm of the conference,
and maintaining a useful degree of low key humor. There are obviously many more.
2/16/17, 8:38 PM
Yes, his verbal style is far more sophisticated than I initially gave him credit for. It took me a long time to warm up to it - during the primaries, I found it massively irritating and was puzzled as to why so many in the heartland enjoyed what stuck me as a very New Yorkerish style. And by "New Yorkish" I mean the cabbie who is arguing that you owe him $35 for a suspiciously short ride. Now I've become accustomed to the verbal tics and appreciate what he's doing, which Richard Dillman and Althouse have analyzed very well. But then I approve of his aims. If you can't stand the man,though, and don't agree with his agenda, all you'll hear is the "biglys" and the braggadocio."
Trump is not some simple-minded gardener, any more than Reagan was a dumb actor. (And I recall that when "Being There" came out, liberals thought the Sellars character was a clear reference to Reagan.)
@DanTheMan
Confirmation bias is powerful and ubiquitous.
Forget the main stream media..just read any comment section.
Fanboyz must have their say.
However it gets boring and inane when the commenters, unfortunately all too commonly, form a circle jerk.
The old timers cannot see the forest for the trees( a good metaphor, maybe, maybe not?)
O'Reilly's favorite Media guy, Bernie Goldberg, still sees the media as trying to do their job and Trump "getting away with stuff."
His CBS soul is convinced he is right. He cannot see that he is pure and simple not taking DJT seriously, but always pretending to take him literally. Boy is that dumb.
Saying he had a greater number of electoral votes than Obama is not significant if it literally is off some, because it is seriously still making his point when you look it up.
They are all crossed up on DJT saying the leaks are real but the News about leaks is fake. Any fool can see that. The leaker was a criminal who will be found, but the story that those leaks show Trump has collaborated with Russia to win is fake.
Wiki received an inside leak from either a DNC person or Russia, but Russia is still accused by Hillary of committing Journalism.
"What a Failed Trump Administration Looks Like". Wow. David Brooks jumping the shark. This is what a failed faux-conservative NYT columnist looks like. He expects things to go a certain way, they look very different, he jumps at his chance to judge failure.
I see that Pruitt just got confirmed, with vast gnashing of teeth. He will go to the EPA, he'll take inventory, some at the EPA will try to stonewall him - and Congress will defund those areas of the EPA and maybe a few more.
Same thing for other departments. Ben Carson, Betsy DeVos. He's got _four years_ (two, eight?) within which he can defund anyone who keeps getting in his way. That's what you do in a business when departments don't listen to you. Gone.
The only place I really don't see a good way forward is with the intelligence agencies. Probably most Americans don't want them gutted, even though most of them are clearly disloyal to the president. Have to tread carefully there. Defense, I'd like to see Mattis rebuild it, but also get rid of a whole lot of deadweight. We can hope.
Conservatives hold all the weapons this time; they just have to use them and not listen to idiots who count missing buttons.
The original, traditional, and full "Bull in a China shop" metaphor as used here in the deep South, seems to resonate with Trump's appearance yesterday. It goes like this: "That ol' boy is just like a bull in a China shop. What he don't break, he shits all over." Seems about right.
@Michael K:
And that is going rapidly as they admit Muslims.
Yes; it's all very sad. P.J. O'Rourke has a great chapter on Sweden in his 1999 book Eat the Rich. I believe he remarked in an interview once that as Sweden brought in more and more immigrant, it's "good socialism" would probably start to falter.
However it gets boring and inane when the commenters, unfortunately all too commonly, form a circle jerk.
2/17/17, 1:52 PM
You don't think the left has formed its' own circle jerk? If Trump announced he likes strawberry pancakes for breakfast, they'd denounce strawberry pancakes.
"Maybe he drives a British-made car."
and the reason the Brits drink their beer warm is that their refrigerators also runs on Lucas electrics.
Funny, but dated. Today everybody build cars the Japanese way or they are out of business, and the refrigerators are Chinese.
Blogger Unknown said...
"KremlinGate is the only game in town now. Everything else is noise including from Trump."
What is kremlin gate? Please be specific about the crimes committed if you pretend there are any.
This is a joke of course. Just like you are.
Pruitt confirmed -- special shout out to 2 Dems: Heidtkamp and Manchin for saying, "Ay."
Only 1 GOP defector --Collins of Maine.
Some of the GOPe are growing a spine:)
I worked in Washington during the early Clinton administration who, like Trump, came in as an outsider and wanted to do things differently. It took him six months to hire Leon Panetta, right the ship, and to have arguably one of the best presidencies in the near past. Hopefully, with this presser, ladyfingers has hit rock bottom and is searching for a stable hand on the tiller. I have a sneaking suspicion that he doesn't care about the presidency, however, and is just stealing anything that isn't bolted down before he gets impeached. I wish I was wrong in my assessment.
Michael K: "And that is going rapidly as they admit Muslims. Malmo is a no go zone."
Scandinavian countries have always been astonishingly anti-Jewish and it's only getting worse.
Much worse, and quickly.
8 years of this. Soon we will have 60ish republican senators from 30ish red states.
The same people who push the impeachment fantasies have been pushing that we are going to die because of global warming fantasies too.
Not serious people.
EsoxLucius: "I wish I was wrong in my assessment."
I wish you were sane in your assessment. But then I would be wrong.
When I saw Tom Friedman of the NYT nearly scream that the Russians hacked the election and it was like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, I thought he was insane. He then published it the NYT. What little respect I had for the NYT was lost that day. Serious people don't talk that way. Crazy people, however, do.
Wondering if he gets the Pulitzer this year for commentary.
I listened today to the NYT podcast, The Daily (2/17/2017). Michael Barbaro was talking with the NYT media columnist, Jim Rutenberg.
They played a clip of President Trump speaking to Acosta of CNN: “The public doesn’t believe you people anymore. Now maybe I had something to do with that, I don’t know?”
Barbaro stops to consider that sentence, calling it a concession: “He’s admitting that he played a role — he, he’s saying I, I believe I may have played a role in helping to undermine the American media. Why do you think he would be acknowledging that right now?”
Barbaro really thinks that Trump was admitting that he himself did something underhanded in causing the media to no longer be believed by the public, as opposed to thinking that Trump meant that his candidacy helped bring it about that the public could see the mendacious nature of the media.
Then when President Trump talks about real leaks / fake news, Barbaro and Rutenberg go on and on about how this is a complete contradiction
My quotes start with Barbaro: “So what is he doing here? If the leaks are real but the reporting on the leaks are [sic] fake, it’s genuinely confusing to me.”
After that I’m not sure which of the two is speaking, but they seem to be in agreement and the following phrases are uttered:
“I mean, come on, there’s — just directly contradictory . . .”
“In the real world those two things [real leak, fake news] directly contradict each other.”
“For a sentence like that which is literally internally contradictory . . .”
These guys really do not understand how a real leak can lead to (and be meant to lead to) fake news. Hearing their voices leads me to rebalance my judgment of how much of what they do is ignorant and how much is malicious. I think these guys are actually completely clueless. They are so bent on viewing things a certain way that they cannot see straight anymore. (Actually, that is just a different kind of malice, I guess. Like the malice involved in getting drunk and then "accidentally" running down a pedestrian. That is, I hold them responsible for getting themselves into a condition where they can't see straight.)
"Can they phrase their questions with ever heightening belligerence and hatred? I think they know they can't." Won't keep them from trying. They're all in. They'll turn it up to 11 -- 12 if need be. Nor will they limit themselves to "questions." They will campaign for legal action and impeachment against Trump, they will support the deep state in further leaks, and they will praise the violence that's coming.
Achilles
The global warming people have Nebraska at 7-10 F higher in 2100. Pure fantasy.
EsoxLucius said...
I have a sneaking suspicion that he doesn't care about the presidency, however, and is just stealing anything that isn't bolted down before he gets impeached. I wish I was wrong in my assessment.
2/17/17, 2:05 PM
You mean like the Clintons actually did?
The Clintons returned about $48,000 in furniture, and they paid the government about $86,000 for other items.
EsoxLucius said...
I worked in Washington during the early Clinton administration who, like Trump, came in as an outsider and wanted to do things differently."
Oh, yeah, because a big government Democrat like Billy Jeff was really interested in draining the swamp and getting rid of corruption in DC. Those Clintons were always about fighting the corruption, that's for sure.
I also lived in DC then. I remember Clinton's early problems somewhat differently than you do. There was the mess that was Hillary care (trying to expand the government) as well as pushing for gays in the military, which ended with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Clinton tried to take the country left too far too fast and the country rebelled by rewarding the GOP with Congress in '94. Now he's remembered as a moderate, but that's only after Gingrich had forced his hand.
EsoxLucius said:
"I have a sneaking suspicion that he doesn't care about the presidency, however, and is just stealing anything that isn't bolted down before he gets impeached."
Two Democrats just voted for his EPA nominee; the percentage of respondents who say the U.S. is headed in the right direction is higher than it has been in 12 years (Rasmussen); his approval rating is 55%; Dems are worried about losing the union vote to this guy. And you think he is going to be impeached? What are you smoking? Who is going to do this impeaching? Nancy friggin Pelosi?
Wondering if he gets the Pulitzer this year for commentary.
2/17/17, 2:07 PM
If Walter Duranty got it, why not Friedman? Tom's got about as much integrity as Duranty, Stalin's NY Times butt-boy, had.
"Who is going to do this impeaching? Nancy friggin Pelosi?"
More likely Maxine 'Mensa' Waters: "He is part of the Kremlin Clan... so he should be impeached".
I was going to post something related to the Dishonest Media but I was interrupted by an army of National Guard soldiers moving, like Genghis Khan and Nazis, house to house in a brutal roundup of sweet, innocent undocumented mothers and babies whose only crime is that they love too much.
Today, Australian PM Turnbull quotes Churchill on Trump: "Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
I really enjoyed our host's breakdown of parts of the news conference, and how Trump showed his strengths. His critics are obsessed with what is lacking: what they see as preparation, professionalism, attention to detail. It's hard to believe any politician at a national level has proceeded quite like this before. One author at Russ Smith's site (I believe one of Russ's kids) says: we all recognize this, but not as the blue-collar guy in the bar--more like someone bullshitting on an exam they haven't prepared for. I for one am glad Trump doesn't just read a carefully-researched speech written by a committee.
What are the good to great qualities of Trump's performance, how would one describe it? It's improvisational, but with a rigid adherence to at least some of the expected disciplines, like rhythm, call and response. He jabs and then retreats, like Ali, keeping the opponent off balance. He's always going to get back to the main message or tune sooner or later. Key phrases will be repeated many times. A bit like jazz or hip-hop. Has unmistakable elements of the preachers in black churches--a constituency that Trump is making an effort to win over.
Although he has been President for only 1 month, I would strongly consider giving Mr. Trump the Nobel Peace Prize.
Unknown said...
Today, Australian PM Turnbull quotes Churchill on Trump: "Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
2/17/17, 2:26 PM
If Twitter had been available to Churchill, I'll bet the old boy would have tweeted his thumbs off.
Ann Althouse said...If you would just follow that advice, you won't find yourself saying something as silly as "a bull looking for a china shop." Bulls aren't hot to relocate to china shops! They're not on a mission to break china. They just would break a lot of china if they ever were in a china shop, which never happens.
See, I thought the writer here was using a dead metaphor in a new way, altering it enough and changing the meaning enough to make it useful and not "silly." Of course bulls don't normally look for china shops--it would be a strange bull that did. But Trump's strange! Trump looks for trouble (vis a vis Media norms, normal Presidential manners, etc), that's the point of the writer's new-ish metaphor. Presidents don't normally treat the Media that way, but Trump does.
"Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
Maybe that's the case if a politician is "complaining" about the media. Trump is not doing that. He's not asking for corrections because he was mis-quoted. He's giving a running commentary on how sleazy the media is for the benefit and entertainment of his supporters. It's effective because it goads the media into ever greater tantrums, demonstrating his point. Harry Truman was seen as petty for lashing out at the media when they didn't give daughter Margaret's piano playing the respect it deserved. But Trump is using scorn and mocking--much more effective.
Unknown said...Today, Australian PM Turnbull quotes Churchill on Trump:"Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
Dang, Winston C. said that about Trump?! Talk about prescient.
Oh, and: sailors complain about the sea all the time. Farmers complain about the weather all the time. Not a very stinging comparison, really--Churchill had many better and Turnbull should pick more judiciously.
Why aren't these people trying to "take Trump down" when he just got elected more worried about the civil unrest they could potentially cause? I thought about this back when the electors in the Electoral College were being harassed and getting death threats. If one of the various "coup" attempts succeeded, it would leave millions of people feeling democracy is over in the USA. Then what? They think things will then be returned to "normal" as defined by the establishment? I don't think so!
Almost all of the violence has been from the Left. But if they keep pushing it, at some point the other side might finally decide to respond in kind. That's probably what the Hard Left anarchists want, but it can't be what the establishment Democrats want, can it? So why are they behaving like this?
Hearing their voices leads me to rebalance my judgment of how much of what they do is ignorant and how much is malicious. I think these guys are actually completely clueless.
Never forget, journalists are stupid rich kids who wouldn't be able to hack it in law school, so their parents got them into J-school.
My guess is that the majority of the commenters here have done far more intellectually challenging work than any journalist.
I myself have worked on projects where, in addition to day to day maintenance, troubleshooting, and ad-hoc data mining requests, I was responsible for planning and coordinating software upgrades on a monthly, quarterly, and semi-annual basis.
The planning involved coordinating with a couple of dozen other groups and ensuring that appropriate test cases for any and all changes were created and completed. In addition, backup plans for various stages of the software upgrade had to be completed and tested and the upgrade and restore times had to be measured to ensure that the maintenance would be completed within the designated time frame. If I failed in this and the systems were down outside of the maintenance window the company I worked for would have faced monetary penalties. Since the system being down for 8 hours was estimated to cost as much as $250,000, those penalties were severe.
And I was just a middlin ranking guy in the group.
I might have some respect for a journalist who actually goes into a war zone, but people who show up at a press conference and ask some questions, sorry, but I guess I'm failing to see why exactly I should revere them.
Inarticulate is not dumb and articulate is not smart. The poor men in that room with their hands raised and waving like little children consider themselves masters of articulation but there they sit waiving in their shitty Jos A Bank suits with the guy at the head of the class laughing at them in his stupid inarticulate Queens, Queens, fucking accent. And they aren't even sure of what it is he is saying or even trying to say except occasionally they are catching something blunt and clear about something that has been done. It is infuriating that the Queens guy is laughing at them when they are...what?...bringing him down. Because chaos. Because Russia.
He isn't complaining about the press, he is glorying in their attention and in their inability to get it and in their willingness to be led down any path he chooses. National Guard. Millions of illegals. Storm troopers. Hilarious manipulation.
Drago said...
I was going to post something related to the Dishonest Media but I was interrupted by an army of National Guard soldiers moving, like Genghis Khan and Nazis, house to house in a brutal roundup of sweet, innocent undocumented mothers and babies whose only crime is that they love too much.
2/17/17, 2:25 PM
That is NOTHING! Last night the skies over my neighborhood were filled with these stealth "black ops" helicopters doing all sorts of covert, government-related, nefarious activities! I know this for a fact because I could not see or hear a one of them!
Achilles,
"The same people who push the impeachment fantasies have been pushing that we are going to die because of global warming fantasies too."
I've been thinking lately that freaking out over Trump follows much the same pattern as global warming alarmism:
See initial evidence of problem. Form alarming theory as to where we're headed. Set BS detector to maximum sensitivity for contradictory evidence. Turn detector down or off for confirmatory evidence. Extrapolate far beyond what that evidence supports. Dismiss alternative predictions as politically driven, head-in-the-sand or craven, or some combination. Blast anyone on your side who acknowledges uncertainty as traitors to the cause....
Journalists at the NYT are so dumb, they don't think they are part of the system.
Todd and Drago, you heartless bastards, making your jokes while there are still children on college campuses who don't have a safe space, a therapy dog or a coloring book to call their own. Because of Trump's AmeriKKKa.
This is all the silly part, isn't it? The post-campaign recriminations. Usually, by this time in a nascent presidency, the nation is focused on future policy and policy-makers.
But everyone is still focused on Trump, the media bomb-thrower.
Trump will not need to worry about a hostile press, if his administration and a Republican congress enact good, productive, popular, workable national policy. And the economy improves. And foreign affairs are managed so as to improve national security and world stability.
And Trump won't be able to blame a hostile media, if he doesn't deliver. It won't matter.
Very soon, Trump is going to have to talk about tax reform. And an Obamacare replacement. And immigration policy, well beyond any temporary bans on refugees. And a federal budget, including military spending and infrastructure spending.
The other day, I saw Trump turn to Paul Ryan on a visit to the Oval Office, and he looked around and essentially asked how long before Obamacare would be repealed and replaced. It pissed me off. The Trumpkins elect Trump, on the basis of Trump's promise to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something wonderful, something we would all love. Trump's not doing that. Trump is dumping it on Congress. Now don't get me wrong; Congress is the right vehicle, the only vehicle, to repeal and replace Obamacare. But Trump was the guy doing all the promising about something wonderful, and making such grand improvements. It's not that easy. Trump has to be invested in any changes.
Remember Journ O Lists??? And you wonder why it resonates with the American people that the media has been lying to us?? Just today, the AP was pushing FAKE NEWS again!!! The media overplayed their hand, and they lost.
Trump's press conference yesterday was a great example of the line from Watchmen, where vigilante Rorschach explains to his fellow prisoners (many of them criminals he personally got sent there): "I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with ME!"
Maybe he drives a British-made car.
Funny, but dated indeed.
I don't think we have china shops. Hardware stores maybe, and more general houseware stores. eBay is running a special now??
>Today, Australian PM Turnbull quotes Churchill on Trump: "Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
Was this before or after Churchill locked out the BBC in favor of Reuters?
Gallup - Average approval rating one month into office:
Nixon 60
Carter 71
Reagan 55
HW Bush 63
Clinton 51
W Bush 62
Obama 64
Trump... 40
And he just fell to 39% in daily tracking poll.
This is NSFW.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rorschach+i%27m+not+locked+in+here+with+you&qpvt=rorschach+i%27m+not+locked+in+here+with+you&view=detail&mid=2DF02AA3FC6D6012D4F22DF02AA3FC6D6012D4F2&FORM=VRDGAR
Regarding Trumps poll numbers. No POTUS has gotten pounded by the press like trump has gotten pounded. The ration of positive to negative stories has to be 10-1. Even Reagan got a honeymoon - but not Trump.
The Establishment won't go gentle into the good night.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/02/17/gallup-majority-of-americans-view-trump-as-a-strong-leader-who-keeps-his-promises-n2287096
and
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_feb17
Ann Althouse said...The bull in the china shop — assuming he ever go there — would not be "picking a fight" with the china — that is, TRYING to break it. He would just happen to break it as he moved about according to his nature.
A normal bull, yes. A strange china-hating bull would go looking for a shop to smash up, though. I thought that was the point.
"Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
Trump isn't "complaining" he's attacking the press - and loving every minute of it.
Pols who pull the "I don't worry about the press, I just keep my head down and do my job" are usually losers who couldn't fight back effectively - even if they had the guts to do so.
Bush II never fought back, and he ended up the most unpopular president ever (judging by poll numbers in 2008). Eventually, people got tired of defending a man who wouldn't defend himself. But of course, Bush II was DC establish through and through.
I see the big pajama sleepover party the Dems held last night to protest Pruitt was really effective.
I remember that at my sleepovers we had pizza and grape soda and we played "Candyland" and "Chutes and Ladders." I'll bet their party wasn't nearly as much fun.
The real leak was fake news because it was about how maybe Mike Glynn violated the Logan Act or discussed a deal with the Russian Ambassador when all the people doing the leaking knew that the entire transcript of that phone conversation was available, and had been looked at by the white House consel's office and they determined theer was nothing that exceeded what he coild do it, and they actually admitted it in the leaks. So it is not news, or not as big news. Only that Mike Flynn was not honest (and he continued to be not honest last week)
Chuck said...This is all the silly part, isn't it? The post-campaign recriminations. Usually, by this time in a nascent presidency, the nation is focused on future policy and policy-makers.
Yeah, Chuck, I remember when George W Bush got elected and how the Left and Democrats just accepted that quickly and started focusing on future policy. I don't remember any long, drawn-out caterwauling about how GWB was "selected not elected," how it was a stolen election, how he was an illegitimate President...nope, none of that happened and none of it persisted for months. Nope, didn't happen.
Say.. Trump has always made a good show of himself. He is like a drunken Nebuchadnezzar, the gold obsessed Assyrian Monarch who took megalomaniac's pride in the wall and towers he has or will built,always flashy and interesting in his exaggerations.
Or another piece of fake news is how Trump might have investments in Russia and his son maybe said something like that in 2008, and if we saw his income tax returns we would know es or no.
Trump says he does not have and deals in Russia (and, he doesn't say, this is not something that would be secret)
Trump says there is more about conflucts of interest in his filings with the FEC than wold be seen in a ax return.
And what he doesn't say is that his dealings with Russia(s) was mostly selling them apartments in New York and other places - and Putin told people close to him not to this any more after 2014.
In an attempt to steer this board away from name calling and back to the thoughtful commentary once here, I would point out that on 'Morning Joe', Mitch McConnell said that, if ladyfingers attempted a purge at the CIA, he would call for impeachment. The process begins in the House, so he has little say in the matter, but I'm thinking others on the hill will favor heroes who risk their lives for their country over a draft dodger who can't remember where his bone spurs are.
Of course there are mysteries. Whatwas this connection to Putin and Russia, and why are border patrol people and ICE so interested in rounding up a lot of epeople (to collect bribes to leave people alone? Overtime?)
readering said...
Gallup - Average approval rating one month into office:
Nixon 60
Carter 71
Reagan 55
HW Bush 63
Clinton 51
W Bush 62
Obama 64
Trump... 40
And he just fell to 39% in daily tracking poll.
So until now Carter was the best and Clinton the worst huh? Or just maybe this doesn't mean bubkis.
Is this Trump once again getting the reporters to look left while he does the trick to the right? Probably. I am waiting for the first MSM reporter who actually figures out what's going on. What will he say? The look on his face will be priceless-like those who visited Jesus' tomb only to find him gone. Stupefied!
Scott Adams has figured it out. Does anyone but us read him?
Chuck said...
This is all the silly part, isn't it? The post-campaign recriminations. Usually, by this time in a nascent presidency, the nation is focused on future policy and policy-makers.
But everyone is still focused on Trump, the media bomb-thrower.
Trump will not need to worry about a hostile press, if his administration and a Republican congress enact good, productive, popular, workable national policy. And the economy improves. And foreign affairs are managed so as to improve national security and world stability.
The press is so bad that if Trump were to announce at a press conference TODAY and state that he was wrong and he had just resigned as President, the press would demand that Pence bring him up on charges for dereliction of duty.
If he were to pass away tonight in his sleep, tomorrow's headline would be President Trump fails to keep campaign promises.
Chuck said...Trump will not need to worry about a hostile press, if his administration and a Republican congress enact good, productive, popular, workable national policy. And the economy improves. And foreign affairs are managed so as to improve national security and world stability.
For God's sake, it's been less than a month. What the hell are you people on about--he hasn't delivered?! So far he's been able to nominate personnel. I'm pretty sure you've said you're very happy with the people he's putting in place, right Chuck? I'm pretty sure you've said you're very happy to hear that Gorsuch is his nominee for the Court, right Chuck? If his Administration is just getting started and most of the important moves he's made so far (namely his appointments) are in line with what you want, what the hell are you complaining about? You're prospectively complaining about things that, in the future, you think he will not have done. Do you understand how stupid that sounds?!
We're 2% of the way through Trump's term (I started to type "1st term" but that seems cruel) and morons like Brooks are tossing the term "failed presidency" around. Don't be as stupid as David Brooks, Chuck--you're better than that (I hope!).
Oh, also: Why hasn't David Brooks gone and fucked himself already? He really should.
The Hill talks about the "polls". Think different questions are being asked of a different selection, maybe?
HoodlumDoodlum said...
...
Yeah, Chuck, I remember when George W Bush got elected and how the Left and Democrats just accepted that quickly and started focusing on future policy. I don't remember any long, drawn-out caterwauling about how GWB was "selected not elected," how it was a stolen election, how he was an illegitimate President...nope, none of that happened and none of it persisted for months. Nope, didn't happen.
I don't expect the Left and Democrats to accept Trump. I don't give a rip about Democrats. Sure they whined about how Bush was illegitimate and how the election was stolen. It was bullshit. So what?
I'm not whining about how Trump is illegitimate. I voted for Trump. I also didn't whine that Obama was illegitimate, or that he was born in Kenya, or that there was something suspicious about Obama's birth certificate.
I am anti-stupid.
@Hoodlum Doodlum Exactly! At this point in Obama's term he was still looking for all the mirrors. Recommend to all who haven't read Scott Adams' blog on the "process" president do so.
HoodlumDoodlum said...
...
For God's sake, it's been less than a month. What the hell are you people on about--he hasn't delivered?! So far he's been able to nominate personnel. I'm pretty sure you've said you're very happy with the people he's putting in place, right Chuck? I'm pretty sure you've said you're very happy to hear that Gorsuch is his nominee for the Court, right Chuck? If his Administration is just getting started and most of the important moves he's made so far (namely his appointments) are in line with what you want, what the hell are you complaining about? You're prospectively complaining about things that, in the future, you think he will not have done. Do you understand how stupid that sounds?!
I liked the Gorsuch nomination. I liked the Sessions pick. And the DeVos pick. And Mattis, and Pompeo, and several others. I never liked the Flynn pick.
But no matter what, we had a press conference yesterday where Trump had more than an hour of the nation's attention, and all that he did was to whine about the press. And how he got a bad call from the Ninth Circuit. While his Justice Department was giving up on that appeal, and telling the court that there would be a new EO anyway.
Pruitt is in. He is going to be running the EPA. At this rate trump will have as many people withdraw as obama did and the press was asking obama what it was like to be a deity. I guess obama was just a mediocre leader. His tax cheat treasury secretary didn't even have the decency to resign.
Next week we will get the tax reform and security plans. They will be talking about chaos and impeachment then too.
The press is so obvious about its bias. They are just angry they are being called out.
There's an entertaining Twitter parody account, "Sean Spicier," I found this there:
"The President now holds the record for fastest to be accused of treason. Previous record holders include GWB and GHWB, both at 3 months."
The Left "I don't like him" = "Treason!" and "Hitler!"
Gotta hand it to r/v, calling Trump " Nebuchadnezzar" is a nice change. It won't take off though. For one thing, 99% of journalists don't know who Nebuchadnezzar was, thanks to our educational system. Secondly, Hitler is a lot easier to type.
Chuck said...
But no matter what, we had a press conference yesterday where Trump had more than an hour of the nation's attention, and all that he did was to whine about the press. And how he got a bad call from the Ninth Circuit. While his Justice Department was giving up on that appeal, and telling the court that there would be a new EO anyway.
2/17/17, 3:22 PM
Were we watching the same press conference? He covered a lot of subjects and yes he did spend a lot of time (throughout) on the press but he took a lot of questions from a lot of reporters. He addressed (for the umteenth time) the Russian thing, etc. Like most "politicians" he talked alot without saying much but that is to be expected.
I cannot understand why the mainstream media think their adversarial posture toward Trump is a good idea. The American people will just treat what the media say as the usual partisan BS and tune it out. Trump is happy to hold their coats while they dig themselves deeper and deeper.
As far as job approval polling is concerned, there is the RCP average, which today is 44.7% (Trump) approval/50.3% disapproval. One component of that index is the Ipsos/Reuters poll which had these numbers most recently(from RCP): 45% Trump approval/50% disapproval in a poll that was composed "1774 Americans" that were 45% democrats and 36% republicans (with recent Gallup info on party affiliation of 25% democrat/ 28% republican). This is a heavily biased poll of both voters and non-voters, (intentionally) over-weighted with democrats : http://www.ipsos-na.com/newspolls/pressrelease.aspx?id=7573
Meanwhile, a Rassmussen poll (also in the RCP index) of likely voters has 55% Trump approval/ 45 % disapproval.
Fearless prediction : Trumps actual approval numbers will approach 60%, especially after he wiped the floor with all those democrat party operatives masquerading as reporters, yesterday.
Can they phrase their questions with ever heightening belligerence and hatred? I think they know they can't.
The could easily beat Trump at press conferences but they don't know about question-form zingers. You have to get the point in fast and hard.
But they're stuck to bureaucrat talk.
It will be nice not to be living in a navigable waterway again.
I'd advise consulting Fowler (2nd edition) on metaphor, in particular dead vs not as dead as you imagined metaphor.
Todd said...
...
Were we watching the same press conference? He covered a lot of subjects and yes he did spend a lot of time (throughout) on the press but he took a lot of questions from a lot of reporters. He addressed (for the umteenth time) the Russian thing, etc. Like most "politicians" he talked alot without saying much but that is to be expected.
Yeah, since I was the first person to post on Althouse's comments pages about the start of the press conference, and later posted on the transcript, I am confident I saw the correct press conference. I called it "unhinged" in real time before Jake Tapper did.
Trump is going to get a lot of questions about Russia. Trump should get a lot of questions about Russia. I hope he keeps getting questioned about Russia. Trump should have made his tax records public, a long time ago. Trump's citing false facts and making confused and contradictory statements doesn't much help him in making a case of an incompetent media.
How about we replace the metaphor "like a bull looking for a china shop" with "like President Trump looking for roomful of reporters."
Facing his first crisis in the Oval Office, he was unbowed in demonstrating his bare-knuckle intention to fight back.
It would be a lot harder for him if there were an actual scandal.
What is the press going to do when he actually does something scandalous? Nobody is going to believe anything they say.
"A bull looking for a china shop"? I've never heard anyone say it that way.
And "bull in a china shop" with "Trump in a press conference".
I have a sneaking suspicion that he doesn't care about the presidency, however, and is just stealing anything that isn't bolted down before he gets impeached. I wish I was wrong in my assessment.
Speaking of "jumping the shark."
Your impeachment fantasies are just that but I do have one question.
Do you masturbate when you have them ?
Clinton was "successful" because the 1994 election gave him a GOP Congress that did a lot of good. Look at a stock market chart sometime.
Clinton was also successful partially because the collapse of the Soviet Union allowed us to spend a less on guns and more on butter.
Chuck: You said "Usually, by this time in a nascent presidency, the nation is focused on future policy and policy-makers.
I pointed out that this was wrong using the example of GWBush's nascent presidency. You say Sure they whined about how Bush was illegitimate and how the election was stolen. It was bullshit. So what? The So what? is that my example, from VERY recent history, disproves your assertion. What you claimed, about what the nation is usually focused on at this point in a nascent presidency, isn't correct. Your assertion was wrong and the argument you then built using that assertion doesn't hold.
Chuck said...But no matter what, we had a press conference yesterday where Trump had more than an hour of the nation's attention, and all that he did
He answered a great many questions on a number of topics. He attacked the Media. He defended his Administration's actions, he announced a new cabinet nominee, he cracked some jokes, he made a claim about wanting to meet with members of the CBC. YOU want to claim that all he did was whine and waste an opportunity (to do what, exactly, you don't say). CNN and other liberal Media outlets want to claim that all he did was act crazy, become unhinged, etc. Do you see what I mean about becoming indistinguishable from the Media?
Trump's style isn't my style, and it isn't the typical Presidential style. He's less polite and less well-mannered than my ideal President. He's less eloquent and doesn't offer the kinds of arguments for the things I'd like him to argue, and so far he doesn't talk about those things very much anyway. He's far from ideal--most of us agree on that.
So what, Chuck? Are you going to bitch and moan every time he doesn't use an hour to do exactly what you want him to do? What a stupid metric that would be. What President have you known that did? What President can you imagine that would? "Anyone would be better than Trump!" Ok, fine, we all get that you feel that way (even though you voted for him).
"Bulls aren't hot to relocate to china shops!"
They are if there's a cow in there.
Now he's remembered as a moderate, but that's only after Gingrich had forced his hand.
Exactly on the money. If Clinton had a Dem congress for 8 years, we would have gone through then what we went through with Obama. I shudder just thinking about that...
Can somebody tell me; is all of the media corrupt and unreliable?
We know the outlets that Trump calls "failing"* and "fake"; the New York Times and CNN. And Trump disparages everybody else, seemingly at will. I don't think that Trump ever disparages NPR, because I don't think he listens. Trump seems to be a tv guy. And because Trump reads only newspapers, he doesn't ever mention one of his harshest and most determined foes; The New Yorker. So it's a kind of droning campaign against the shows, and panel discussions, that Trump sees on tv and doesn't like.
What's left for Trump and the Trumpkins? Trump was excoriating the Wall Street Journal yesterday. Trump has railed against all of the conservatives who tried to defeat him in the primaries. The people who work for the National Review, the Weekly Standard, AEI, and Heritage.
We're left with TrumpMedia. The Drudge Report. Breitbart. Talk radio. A pretty unremarkable lineup.
*Does anybody remember, that bizarre news cycle where Trump scheduled a meeting with the Times, then canceled it, then renewed it, and said on tape in a meeting with their editorial board what a great American institution that the Times was? Trump is now trying to turn "the failing New York Times" into one of those "Crooked Hillary/Lyin' Ted/Little Marco/Low-Energy Jeb" hastags. This was Trump, when his psyche was cycling in a favorable mood toward the Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/donald-trump-visit.html?_r=0
"Psycho Donald." That will be my new name for him. Psycho Donald, like Crooked Hillary.
Here:
Trump will not need to worry about a hostile press, if his administration and a Republican congress enact good, productive, popular, workable national policy. And the economy improves. And foreign affairs are managed so as to improve national security and world stability.
Heh. You really believe this, don't you? Nowhere in history has a sitting president been treated with as much disrespect as Trump, and that doesn't send you a signal?
Bush did those very things you speak of. The media tore him to shreds for 6 of his 8 years, and he ended up with a very low approval rating at the end of his second term. This was by design. They actually hate Trump 10 times more than they did Bush. The difference is that Trump is fighting back.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
If you want to know what "lifelong republican"/Vichy Chuck will be talking about, simply review that mornings DNC feed and the transcript from the previous night's Maddow show.
HoodlumDoodlum said...
...
So what, Chuck? Are you going to bitch and moan every time he doesn't use an hour to do exactly what you want him to do? What a stupid metric that would be. What President have you known that did? What President can you imagine that would? "Anyone would be better than Trump!" Ok, fine, we all get that you feel that way (even though you voted for him).
Mitch McConnell was fabulous today. I just saw a 30-second clip of a press meeting that he attended. McConnell said again (he's said much the same for many months) that he could do without the daily Tweets from the president. But McConnell then went on to say that this presidency, in terms of action so far, looks just like what he'd expect a Rubio Administration, or a Cruz Administration, or a Jeb Bush Administration would look like. McConnell noted that the appearances would look a lot different. And of course McConnell is right. He's right about all of it. Geeze, I love Mitch McConnell.
"Psychotic Break" Chuck wants to engage in the marketing/labeling game with Trump!
LOL
That should go as well as his political prognostications!
The other day, I saw Trump turn to Paul Ryan on a visit to the Oval Office, and he looked around and essentially asked how long before Obamacare would be repealed and replaced. It pissed me off. The Trumpkins elect Trump, on the basis of Trump's promise to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something wonderful, something we would all love. Trump's not doing that. Trump is dumping it on Congress. Now don't get me wrong; Congress is the right vehicle, the only vehicle, to repeal and replace Obamacare.
The GOP tried to repeal it - how many - 6 times during the Obama administration. But they didn't have a plan? You'd assume they'd have a plan...
I'm being facetious here, but the GOP establishment has no one to blame but themselves for this. They had since November 9 to at least start formulating a plan, because Trump promised it would be repealed and replaced. Are you telling me Trump really didn't mean that?
You're just phoning it in now, Chuck.
About that bull in a china shop ----- WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. Also incorrect.
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/bull-in-a-china-shop/
In an attempt to steer this board away from name calling
later that same sentence...
ladyfingers
Vichy Chuck, still referencing some mythical Jeb/Marco/Ted administration!
LOL
Jeb, who ran against the base of the republicans!
Too funny.
I Callahan: "I'm being facetious here, but the GOP establishment has no one to blame but themselves for this."
Weren't the Facetions wiped out by the Hittites for being so sarcastic?
Drago said...
If you want to know what "lifelong republican"/Vichy Chuck will be talking about, simply review that mornings DNC feed and the transcript from the previous night's Maddow show.
You're such an asshole. You never have a substantive argument, or even a substantive comment.
I say something rotten about Trump, and your default response is to attack me as a Democrat. Which isn't true, which was never true, and which isn't even arguably true.
You can't quote me saying anything pro-Democrat. Or anti-Republican. Only anti-Trump. And I am proud of being a Trump doubter. Also; I am happy to be such an annoyance to you.
"Politicians complaining about the newspapers is like a sailor complaining about the sea"
Just want to mention, sailors do complain about the sea. Doesn't do much good. When the ship is doing 45° rolls, and the waves are higher then the bridge when the ship is in a trough, you'll hear them do a lot of complaining. You'll also hear a lot about the idiots who sent them out that way and didn't route around the heavy seas.
Uh oh. Looks like "frigate" boy is getting a little unhinged.
And by "a little" I of course mean "completely".
Vichy Chuck: Also; I am happy to be such an annoyance to you."
LOL
You don't rise to the level of "annoying".
You also clearly don't rise to the level of someone who understands what is happening around you.
Chuck said... I called it "unhinged" in real time before Jake Tapper did.
I beat a CNN representative to their talking points--I got it out before they could. Hooray!
Trump is going to get a lot of questions about Russia. Trump should get a lot of questions about Russia. I hope he keeps getting questioned about Russia. Trump should have made his tax records public, a long time ago. Trump's citing false facts and making confused and contradictory statements doesn't much help him in making a case of an incompetent media.
Trump got, and answered (in his way) a bunch of questions on Russia. That undercuts your assertion that all he did was whine, and anyway if that's what you wanted (lots of questions) and that's what happened why are you complaining that it was a waste of time?
Trump's case that the Media is incompetent doesn't hinge on Trump never making contradictory statements. Trump can be a contradictory mush mouth AND the Media can be both biased and incompetent.
"lifelong republican" Chuck is apparently intent on setting records for Democrat talking points mimicry and inability to relate to his claimed/asserted party affiliation.
I note that in the same way Margaret Mead might make not of a primitive tribe member scratching his own arse.
Chuck said...Mitch McConnell was fabulous today. I just saw a 30-second clip of a press meeting that he attended. McConnell said again (he's said much the same for many months) that he could do without the daily Tweets from the president. But McConnell then went on to say that this presidency, in terms of action so far, looks just like what he'd expect a Rubio Administration, or a Cruz Administration, or a Jeb Bush Administration would look like. McConnell noted that the appearances would look a lot different. And of course McConnell is right. He's right about all of it. Geeze, I love Mitch McConnell.
Are you mentally ill, or is this an act, Chuck? Maybe there's some third option, I dunno.
You say Trump is behind where he should be and isn't getting the kinds of things done most presidents get done by this point. You say Trump is terrible because he's not accomplishing things, is wasting time, and his distractions are preventing substantive changes of the kind you want. Other people challenge your characterization, and you variously respond or change the subject to some other aspect of Trump you dislike. Ok.
McConnell says the exact same thing we've been saying, here, w/r/t Trump not being behind, Trump getting things done, Trump's administration being in relatively/comparatively good shape (w/r/t appointments, etc), Trump not being radically different on the substance of his actions from what other possible Repub. presidents would be. The exact points we made in arguing against your various attacks on Trump, Chuck. You respond with admiration and implied agreement with McConnell...and against your own earlier assertions and attacks.
What was that word yours, the one you were proud to beat Tapper to applying? "Unhinged," that's it. Unhinged.
HD: "Are you mentally ill, or is this an act, Chuck? Maybe there's some third option, I dunno"
Do psychotic breaks count as mental illness or a transient condition that falls under a different candidate.
You know, Chuck is a troll. And a very good one.
Chuck is the irritating factor that stimulates the creation of the pearls of wisdom on this blog. If Chuck did not exist it would be a good idea to invent him. [hmmm. Maybe Althouse is Chuck]
HoodlumDoodlum said...
...
...
You say Trump is behind where he should be and isn't getting the kinds of things done most presidents get done by this point. You say Trump is terrible because he's not accomplishing things, is wasting time, and his distractions are preventing substantive changes of the kind you want. Other people challenge your characterization, and you variously respond or change the subject to some other aspect of Trump you dislike. Ok.
I didn't say that. I said Trump would ultimately succeed or fail on whether the country got moving in a positive direction. I said I didn't understand why Trump obsessed over the media, when the real task was getting the country moving in the right direction.
And that is what Mitch McConnell is talking about. McConnell clearly doesn't like Trump the man. McConnell knows better than anybody what an opportunity it is, to have Trump the president.
Ron Winkleheimer: "You know, Chuck is a troll. And a very good one"
Hardly. He is just an amusing jester screaming 'look at me and take me seriously!'
"We're left with TrumpMedia. The Drudge Report. Breitbart. Talk radio. A pretty unremarkable lineup."
It's pretty much all we've had for 8 years. Even the WSJ ed page is getting wobbly.
Back in the day, I used to read The New Republic when Michael Kelly was editing it and it was great. Then he died in a jeep accident in Iraq and it went loosey goosey.
I used to read the Weekly Standard but now Bill Kristol is writing that he prefers "The Deep State" to Trump.
I used to read National Review (for 40 years) and then they went bonkers about Trump and haven't really recovered.
I'm reading a pretty interesting book about the NSA called Code Warriors," which is the history going back to WWII.
I've read a lot about cryptography and cryptanalysis so it is pretty interesting. It might be tough going for your first book on the topic.
Newspapers and main stream TV are useless. I read British papers online.
It's pretty much all we've had for 8 years. Even the WSJ ed page is getting wobbly.
I used to love that paper. I even subscribed, though I had to sell a kidney. I can't say how the finances look, but Murdoch has definitely not been good for the quality of the paper.
As much as I hate how much people are overusing the term...is this gaslighting, Chuck? Are you trying to gaslight people? The comment thread is only one page so far, man, I can just scroll up in this one, and you haven't exactly kept your opinions to yourself in other, recent, threads.
You didn't argue that by this point in the presidency the nation is usually looking forward, to future policy, but Trump's actions have prevented that? You didn't reference Trump wasting time, and wasting an opportunity with his press conference? Fine, whatever, it's a silly thing to argue about.
Let's dig a little deeper: Chuck said... I said I didn't understand why Trump obsessed over the media, when the real task was getting the country moving in the right direction. Here's the heart of it, Chuck, the "getting the country moving in the right direction" part. The question is: what should Trump have done or accomplished by now that would "get the country moving in the right direction" that he has failed to do? Put aside the vague-to-the-point-of-meaningless phrase itself, and explain: what was he supposed to do that he didn't? So far he is supposed to have made high-level appointments and gotten started staffing agencies and getting familiar with the duties of the job (esp. in terms of meeting with gov. employees, calling foreign heads of state, etc). By your own admission, and Mitch McConnell's I guess, he has done those things, or most of them, and done them pretty well (from the perspective of appointing the right people, etc).
So, again: you're arguing that he's fucking up and that his fuck ups have prevented him from accomplishing something. I'm asking you to clarify what he was supposed to have accomplished, specifically, and what fuck up of his prevented that accomplishment.
"Jeb, who ran against the base of the republicans!"
As with the Democrats choice of Hillary as their nominee, I find Jeb Bush's quixotic primary bid a bizarre and under examined bit of political history. Anybody on the ground, anybody, knew there was absolutely no way Independents and casual Republicans would turn out for another Bush in the general election. It was gobsmackingly obvious to anyone who's been alive in the last 14 years. So how did it escape Jeb's notice and that of the fools who donated to his campaign?
@Michael K,
Great book in re NSA, CIA, FBI, Russians, an astonomer and hacking:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0083DJXCM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
"Before the Internet became widely known as a global tool for terrorists, one perceptive U.S. citizen recognized its ominous potential. Armed with clear evidence of computer espionage, he began a highly personal quest to expose a hidden network of spies that threatened national security. But would the authorities back him up? Cliff Stoll's dramatic firsthand account is "a computer-age detective story, instantly fascinating [and] astonishingly gripping"
I don't know Althouse
Chuck said...Trump's citing false facts and making confused and contradictory statements doesn't much help him in making a case of an incompetent media.
Does Trump need much help? AP Blew It Big Time On That National Guard Roundup Story
Biased to the point of letting their bias make the terrible at their jobs, or just incompetent/stupid? Hey, it could be both!
"Anybody on the ground, anybody, knew there was absolutely no way Independents and casual Republicans would turn out for another Bush in the general election. It was gobsmackingly obvious to anyone who's been alive in the last 14 years"
Apparently not Chuck.
After Jeb made his comment about amnesty being "an act of love," I swore I would stay at home rather than cast a vote for him in the general. Luckily, I didn't have to do that.
Chuck is sounding like every other bitter GOPe Trump hater these days - as crazy as the craziest pussy hat woman or Berkeley radical, as unwilling to accept defeat. Like Bill Kristol, Chuck was looking forward to spending 8 years under Dem rule, just so he could say to Trump supporters, "Told ya so!" He just can't come to grips with the fact that he is obsolete:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFe78Cm0YCE
"Great book in re NSA, CIA, FBI, Russians, an astonomer and hacking:
"
I've read it several times and have a copy in my library, which happens to be in boxes at the moment.
It's dated but still the best on "hacking."
There's another good one about the UC San Diego supercomputer back in the 90s. I can't remember the title now.
That was the one about the hacker that finally got caught and sent to prison. I'll think of it.
"The Press" is simply a tool, not an independent entity.
The members of the press do not think for themselves. They are told what to do by their leadership. They are told what story to write before they speak to a single source. They are given questions to ask. This is not controversial, there are numerous personal statements and memoirs of how the NYT commissions stories, how CNN briefs their interviewers, how CBS edits interviews.
Their editors receive instructions regarding what the party line of the day, or even the hour, is. This coordination is minute in detail and usually it is timed to perfection.
It has every appearance of being a single mechanism under close centralized control.
The only unknowns in this system is the identity and reporting relationship of the coordinators, and the means of collaboration of the ownership entities.
Clifford Stoll "The Cuckoos Egg", 1989
Very very dated, but interesting.
That Mythbusters was great!
"Clifford Stoll "The Cuckoos Egg", 1989
Very very dated, but interesting."
Yes that was the one I referred to. I can't think of the other one's title.
The famous hacker who went to prison and is now out and a consultant was the subject it of it.
This is the other book.
It's called "Takedown" and was pretty good but, again, dated.
One of my liberal friends complained to me, "Trump set back safe sex education thirty years by barebacking the press on national TV".
So his NPD is working for you... and your NPD?
It didn't happen "at" the Times. It's his unprecedented looney self-absorption where it's happening. The press is only doing its job and calling out an unrepentant delusional liar at his every lie. This country started with Washington and hopefully won't end with Drumpfkins, but he is absolutely the mirror image opposite of that example and it can't go on if his crap were allowed to become normative, which it won't. That's the reason why it won't last and can't last and will do nothing but take our country down as many notches as you lackeys will let it take us all in the meantime.
It's not "working," either. His support is about at 36%, and dropping. I'm sure it can get down to about the 25% that constitutes his core support.
"Democrats, in and out of the media, smelled blood.‡ Many already were going for the kill.‡‡"
Remember how we shouldn't use violent rhetoric like that terribad person Sarah Palin?
Ritmo, keep posting. Forgive me if I don't notice.
10 or more strikes and you're OUT!
Tee Ball.
Be all that you can be!
Keep 'em comin'.
Deep Thoughts.
All spittle-fleck deflectors in position, Sir!
"Mitch McConnell was fabulous today."
This sentence has never been uttered before in the history of humankind. Not even by Elaine Chao.
So when's the last time enough people watched an entire press conference - one hour and seventeen minutes - so that the whole press conference could be a topic of conversation?
Getting and holding people's attention - Trump can do it.
"Bull pulpit" and "bull looking for china shop" - these two metaphors appeared in the blog and comments. To me it's more like a rodeo which includes a bull chasing clowns about the ring followed by demonstrations of skill - comic intervals mix with serious discussions. At intervals, Trump chases the reporters about, they leaping out of the way in a comical style. "Fake News. Very Fake News." Then he makes some serious points about receiving secret documents as a crime and about stupidly careless stories having an effect on foreign policy. Then points out media hatred and bias and makes jokes about that. Doing this at a press conference, right in the faces of the media. It was very interesting to watch and most of the reporters came across as pompous young idiots illustrating their bias against the US President every time they opened their mouths and unable to stop doing it even as he kept pointing it out. They just couldn't be reporters and so they ended up being clowns in a Trump show. Like people in Faulty Towers who are more ridiculous every time they reappear.
Then the next day the incredible fatuity of talking about how the press conference might damage reporters and "the Fourth Estate" because Trump criticized them. What damaged the press was that Trump was able to get people to watch the whole conference and see the press in action. Those slow-thinking idiots with their gotcha mentality are the Press, the "fourth Estate"? That's what we have to gather information which we need for the democracy to function? They reported the election wrong and should have been fired. They were kept on to make the same mistakes again - for 20,000,000 dollars a year. When do we get newspaper robots?
Forgive me if I don't notice.
I rather prefer you don't. Your responses are as forgettable and self-serving and pointless as Trump's. But just like Him, you still feel the need to insert yourself into what others have to say.
"Oh Wow. I sure hope Ritmo can provide something for Michael Kennedy to respond to!" Said no one, ever.
I do not know about Buwaya's general rant, but when there is an earthquake, or whatever, in Indonesia they have their "Asian correspndent" in Beijing report it, and since in today's world their facilities in New York are vastly superior to what they have in Beijing and receive the video, etc. from the Indonesian TV companies connected to the international wire services equally fast, I assume the "report" is made up in New York and scrolled up on the correspondent's screen in Beijing for him to read and sync'd to the video.
What? Me Worry!
Trajectory... plotted.
Not up.
No, I never get tired of it. You?
I do not think Trump's White House runs like perfectly tuned machine - but then neither did Sherman's march through Georgia.
For the NYT, winning may simply be getting and maintaining a monetizable readership. Trump doesn't have to fall.
Brilliant. As if you just figured this out? Oh neato, the media and press and comedy and entertainment industries all make out like gangbusters when a maniacal buffoon is at the controls. They all knew that already. Still didn't support him, because they had higher ideals and concerns: Like the well-being of their country. But that goes against the standard right-wing claptrap of how self-sacrifice is unpatriotic. The only way you can serve your country is by doing something excessive for yourself, is how right wing agitprop seems to go nowadays.
Goofy is the one with the non-canines
Ah-hyuck!
C'mon do what you do so well!
(golf clap)
Styrofoam columns and a taped Trumpet Voluntary.
"Enemy of the American People. SICK!"
Nutjob.
(piddle)
Chuck I admire that you keep posting here in the wind of Drudge readers who make fun of your conservation and insightful background.
Chuck said...
"The other day, I saw Trump turn to Paul Ryan on a visit to the Oval Office, and he looked around and essentially asked how long before Obamacare would be repealed and replaced. It pissed me off. "
You have to be kidding me. For once the president is letting congress do their fucking job. And if there is a more cowardly lazy shiftless bunch than the GOPe congress critters who would that be? Maybe the average D.C. Bureaucrat?
These people are why Trump is president. Now they are getting what they earned good and hard.
Chuck, look around, you're at the wrong blog.
Carry on, it's all in fun.
we luv u chk :) :)
Go for it ritmo, you're a barrel of monkeys.
"Trump, first, last and always, matches the mood of the discontented."
Change that to -people hoping for change- and I know that Ann Althouse experienced that feeling 8 years ago.
"Certainly no other president, and few politicians at any level in any time, would dare put on a show like that."
It tickled me pink to read this sentence. Thanks.
The President is taking on 2 parties, the media, and the bureaucracy. And shaking up the world order which is long overdue. He has as much as said he will put up or shut up. He's got some bones.
"All can win."
And that is what we are hoping for. We can do better.
A common sense revolution led by a madman.
Well, I'm glad you cleared that up for me.
Tump is the head of a new wing of the Republican Party. Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservatives and Delusional Conservatives.
I got that from NYMag.
Hilarious that his fans feel vindicated by that sh*tshow. "Finally, a president going on t.v. and being the same ignorant a**hole that I am!"
-- Another NYMag comment.
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