The protocol says that “the inmate’s counsel or other third parties acting on behalf of the inmate’s counsel” may provide the department with a sedative, pentobarbital, or an anesthetic, sodium pentothal, if they can obtain it “from a certified or licensed pharmacist, pharmacy, compound pharmacy, manufacturer, or supplier”.
Attorneys, though, said the idea is ludicrous. Megan McCracken, a lethal injection expert at the University of California Berkeley School of Law, said the clause is “unprecedented, wholly novel and frankly absurd. A prisoner or a prisoner’s lawyer simply cannot obtain these drugs legally, or legally transfer them to the department of corrections, so it’s hard to fathom what the Arizona department was thinking in including this nonsensical provision as part of its execution protocol.”
Dale Baich, an assistant federal public defender who works on death penalty cases in Arizona, said he was “at a loss” to explain the provision, which he said presents “ethical issues as well as legal issues. It’s not legal for me as a lawyer to go out and procure drugs for a client. So legally it’s impossible and ethically as well, my job is to make sure that my client’s rights are protected and not to work with the state to ensure that it carries out the execution … If the state wants to have the death penalty it has the duty to figure out how to do it constitutionally, it can’t pass that obligation on to the prisoner or to anyone else.”
१५ फेब्रुवारी, २०१७
Arizona invites lawyers to provide drugs to help their clients through the execution process.
Now, this is a new kind of crazy.
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I've never understood why a general anaesthetic wasn't used, to simply bypass every possible cruelty argument.
Two words: firing squad
(Gary Gilmore, Utah, circa 1977 - executed by firing squad)
It is interesting to see the Left reveal itself. The goal is to outlaw capital punishment. By Any Means Necessary. BAMN!
"It’s not legal for me as a lawyer to go out and procure drugs for a client. So legally it’s impossible and ethically as well, my job is to make sure that my client’s rights are protected and not to work with the state to ensure that it carries out the execution … If the state wants to have the death penalty it has the duty to figure out how to do it constitutionally, it can’t pass that obligation on to the prisoner or to anyone else.”
All true. I'm assuming that actual doctors decline to get involved in prescribing sedatives for inmates about to be executed. They might give them in a right to die case, but obligation to die? Not so much.
If you're going to execute someone, just use nitrogen gas. Nitrogen makes up about 80% of the atmosphere. If you put a mask on someone and turn on pure nitrogen, that person quickly goes to sleep painlessly. Death soon follows. Oklahoma has allowed for this option.
I was always told the guillotine was pretty painless. Bit messy, though. I think they are bringing firing squad back in several states, just because the left has thrown too many tantrums.
Why not hanging? Plenty of precedent. Personally, I'd tell the criminal: "Your choice. We can shoot you, or we can go old school and draw and quarter you. Which is it to be?" For treason, I'd be totally down with cutting their head off and sticking it on a pike in front of the Capitol building or the Supreme Court.
If you want a mood brightener, imagine Nancy Pelosi or Chuckie Schumer's head on a pike in front of Justice Thomas's reserved parking spot. He'd probably appreciate the view.
--Vance
Not sure how humane the guillotine actually is, but it does protect us from vengeful Highlanders and vampires.
"Nonapod said...
Not sure how humane the guillotine actually is, but it does protect us from vengeful Highlanders and vampires."
It was invented for the execution of nobility because it was considered painless. Not that we can ask anyone.
Some Frenchman made a deal with a guillotine customer to keep blinking as long as he could and got to ten seconds.
What are the supporters smoking or injecting or taking up their noses.
Perhaps, murderers should be put-down by the same means as they used.
Constitutionally? The death penalty is not addressed in the Constitution. Only "cruel and unusual" is addressed. Considering the methods of punishment from the time of the drafting of the Constitution, I choose keel hauling. It won't take but one of those, and the entire fight over lethal injection will be over.
Here's an old Straight Dope column on the subject of "Does the head remains briefly conscious after decapitation." Check out the final 3 paragraphs. I wouldn't say it's proof of anything, but it does give one pause.
Opinions may vary on whether this would constitute a feature or a bug.
"Why not hanging? Plenty of precedent."
Not an option for the obese.
One relatively civilized way to execute someone would be via a massive heroin overdose. No shortage of the stuff, not very expensive, works like a dream. I'm sure there are those who would doubtless object because it would give the condemned a last moment of bliss before the lights went out.
Maybe Arizona is declaring a sanctuary execution chamber where they won't stop or detain undocumented drugs.
Now, this is a new kind of crazy.
It's the result of an older kind of crazy:
"With drugs that can legally be used for lethal injections in short supply, ..."
Jess said...
Constitutionally? The death penalty is not addressed in the Constitution.
Constitution says death penalty is OK:
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, ...put in jeopardy of life or limb; ...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, ..."
"Here's an old Straight Dope column on the subject of "Does the head remains briefly conscious after decapitation." Check out the final 3 paragraphs. I wouldn't say it's proof of anything, but it does give one pause."
Why wouldn't it? Especially if the method is as humane as some say it is. There's still blood in the brain until it runs out, and what would end the brain function other than blood loss? Haven't read the old column but have read things on this subject in the past. Some head winks or gives a prearranged signal? Or the face appears to make an expression according to some witness?
You might also want to worry about how much consciousness there is in all sorts of bodies that have no way to signal to onlookers that the person inside is still thinking.
Don't bad mouth Arizona over this. The concept of letting the convicted participate in the choice of lethal agent is hardly new; our legislators were reportedly inspired by a passage in the "Meaning of Life" suggesting that allowing the prisoner some choice is actually more humane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLctf4o6feQ
Let's put this to rest. Strap 'em in. Light 'em up.
Why not blindfold them and shove them off a 200 foot cliff, say? Drop them out of a plane at 7000 feet? Death for sure, it's instantaneous, and the terror/fear in falling can't be any worse than the five minutes before the doc comes in with the needle or the officer flips the lever on the chair.
Cleanup might be an issue, but that's what parolee's are for. Give them a bit of a scare and "Don't be stupid son, or you end up like this" message. Win/win.
--Vance
The gas chamber with cyanid was the best option. It was ended by anti-death penalty zealots.
The problem with lethal injection is that so many [prisoners are drug addicts and have no findable veins.
I have seen cases, many cases, of addicts injecting drugs into arteries when veins could not be found. The consequences for the addict were usually severe.
The gas chamber still exists at San Quentin.
Cyanide
"all sorts of bodies that have no way to signal to onlookers that the person inside is still thinking."
Sounds like a recent march on Washington.
Arizona will coolly ignore these silly objections just as they coolly ignore Daylight savings Time and MLK's birthday as a holiday.
"Unknown said...
Why not blindfold them and shove them off a 200 foot cliff, say? Drop them out of a plane at 7000 feet? Death for sure, it's instantaneous..."
Not if you believe this http://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/12/vesna-vulovic-flight-attendant-who.html
You might also want to worry about how much consciousness there is in all sorts of bodies that have no way to signal to onlookers that the person inside is still thinking.
They are working on it.
They might even be happy.
Locked-in patients trapped inside their paralysed bodies have told doctors they are ‘happy’ using an astonishing new brain computer interface which deciphers their thoughts.
In a groundbreaking experiment, four people who were incapable of even moving their eyes, were able to respond with ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers to spoken questions.
On seven out of 10 occasions the patients said they were happy despite their utterly debilitating condition which means they require round the clock care for all their basic needs.
I don't know that I would want test it.
There should be two options: Hanging or firing squad. No one can legitimately argue that either is 'cruel and unusual'.
The pre-occupation with making executions quick and painless is a modern phenomenon. The Romans crucified criminals precisely because it was slow and painful. Medieval methods such as drawing and quartering or disemboweling were excruciating. Even hangings were usually inexpertly done, leaving the person to slowly strangle. Even the guillotine left it's victim several seconds of horrible consciousness as has been pointed out. I'm not sure there actually is a quick and painless method.
It is interesting to see the Left reveal itself. The goal is to outlaw capital punishment. By Any Means Necessary. BAMN
If you didn't know this, it it's because you haven't been paying attention.
rhhardin said...
I've never understood why a general anaesthetic wasn't used, to simply bypass every possible cruelty argument.
2/15/17, 10:09 AM
1) Massive heroin or fentanyl overdose
2) Nitrogen asphyxiation
3) Whatever "humane drug" they issue for assisted suicide in Oregon
4) "Nine grams"
5) If Ann is concerned about fatties' heads coming off their bodies when hanged, how about the Spanish garrote, or some modern painless instant neck-breaking machine? (as most people know, hanging is supposed to kill instantly by breaking the neck, not slowly by strangulation)
And,
If a lawyer can get his client a doctor to serve as expert witness, he can get him a doctor to ease his passing.
Jess said...
Constitutionally? The death penalty is not addressed in the Constitution. Only "cruel and unusual" is addressed. Considering the methods of punishment from the time of the drafting of the Constitution, I choose keel hauling. It won't take but one of those, and the entire fight over lethal injection will be over.
5th Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
14th Amendment: 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
The implication is clear - if you do provide due process, you can deprive someone of his/her life. The part about property should be a slam dunk against civil asset forfeiture but that would require a supreme court that actually abides by the clear language of the Constitution. We have not had one of those for quite some time.
but that would require a supreme court that actually abides by the clear language of the Constitution. We have not had one of those for quite some time.
Amen to that!
Planned Parenthood. Sterling reputation. Human rights-approved. Double-edged scalpels. Leader in the abortion industry.
Why wouldn't it? Especially if the method is as humane as some say it is. There's still blood in the brain until it runs out, and what would end the brain function other than blood loss? Haven't read the old column but have read things on this subject in the past. Some head winks or gives a prearranged signal? Or the face appears to make an expression according to some witness?
It's on the web so it must be true:
In Africa, there have been certain tribes who will tie your head to a springy sapling before chopping it off, so that your head is then catapulted into the distance after the final blow. Thus your last few moments of awareness are of your head sailing breezily through the air. Seriously, if you have to die, that has to be like one of the top five ways.
Aren't all methods of execution "unusual?"
Scott asks: Aren't all methods of execution "unusual?"
Of course not.
Firing Squad is Constitutional, instantaneous and ammo is cheap. Law enforcement volunteers will be plentiful. The state can buy a century's worth for under a $1000. Rifles seldom used last a 1000 years. The state can but a dozen and have spares for under $6000.
Seriously, why not contract with Planned Parenthood?
They have a kill rate that exceeds 100% -- more efficient than any military -- and their methods are approved by progressive, liberal, and other left-wing humanitarian groups.
If it's good enough to deny life unworthy, again, and again, and again, then it's probably good enough to deny the lives of murderers.
The military can order its members to die and the government isn't required to guarantee a soldier an instant painless death. I fail to see why those who are being put to death as a punishment for their crimes deserve an easier death than a soldier defending the nation.
As mentioned by others above thread, give the criminal an anesthetic and then gas with nitrogen until cardiac arrest. That is far less painful and anyone gets to die naturally and certainly less than a combat death.
Seriously, why not contract with Planned Parenthood?
They have a kill rate that exceeds 100% -- more efficient than any military -- and their methods are approved by progressive, liberal, and other left-wing humanitarian groups.
If it's good enough to deny life unworthy, again, and again, and again, then it's probably good enough to deny the lives of murderers.
Well said, n.n. After all, a mass-murder organization should be able to knock off the occasional villain. They have been shown to have no qualms and they don't wring their hands over any possible discomfort by the recipient of the procedure. So, yeah!
rhhardin said...
Some Frenchman made a deal with a guillotine customer to keep blinking as long as he could and got to ten seconds.
The Dr. coached the condemned for weeks before his execution. Roll his eyes, opoen his mouth, stick out his tounge. The head landed upright on a metal plate which kept the head from bleeding out and life was detected for over a minute.
It wasn't recorded whether the head mouthed, ouch .
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