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१७६ टिप्पण्या:
Better to monitor the recount efforts to ensure the petitioners themselves didn't and don't introduce fraudulent ballots after the fact. Unfortunatemy enough time has passed that an organized effort could quite easily have so done.
I think recounts need to be done nearly immediately. As we know garage mahal could find enough votes to get Al Franken elected, think what a few smart people could do in three weeks.
What do they do with the ballots once they are certified and no recount has been done? Have they been properly observed/protected?
A nationwide recount, by the way, is exactly one of the many reasons WHY we don't go with the popular vote.
Prediction: They'll call it off once the number of fraudulent votes for Clinton becomes apparent.
Trump could do this, but he shouldn't. The only thing uglier than a sore loser is a sore winner, and so far Trump has been a gracious winner.
It would be interesting to know how many non-citizens voted. The idea that it is close to zero seems preposterous.
Trump should do it.
What is it that our favorite troll said "Keep hope alive!"
Why would we think a recount is more accurate than the original count? It seems like it would be much easier to arrange for shenanigans in a recount, when there's so much more time and information available, than the first time around.
Why would we think a recount is more accurate than the original count? It seems like it would be much easier to arrange for shenanigans in a recount, when there's so much more time and information available, than the first time around.
That's a feature, not a bug.
A strategic three key state recount is bullshit, but par for the course for the "it's not over until we win" crowd.
https://twitter.com/historylvrsclub/status/802659198588817408
I've said it before, but it bears repeating:
The last time the Democrats were this butthurt over the election of a Republican president, they started a civil war and that president is widely considered to be one of our greatest ever.
It is amazing the amount of projection and the lack of self awareness the Left is showing.
The only way to win against this sort of nonsense is to push back. And to push back hard.
Trump needs to go further than just recounts in other states. He needs to demand a full audit of the election in every state. Stand in front of the American people and say, "It's important we can trust the electoral process and therefore, I'm calling for a complete audit of the entire election in all 50 states. We want to know, did anyone vote twice, contrary to law? We're any of the machines rigged to give votes they shouldn't have? Did anyone vote who isn't eligible to vote? I am going to direct the FBI and other federal agencies to assist state and local governments in this nation wide effort. We need to be assured our process is legitimate."
That'll scare the crap out of the Dems. They'll start screaming that trump is trying to undermine our Democracy.
On the one hand, a large number of major candidate voters willing to throw a few bucks at a long shot.
On the other hand, an American royal leftie family with a huge pile of bribe money and no place to apply it.
Reminds me of an episode of The Paper Chase in which one of the students represents himself in an accident claim against the city. He gets all excited about filing discovery motions until the city attorney (who didn't go to Harvard) buries him in response.
"The last time the Democrats were this butthurt over the election of a Republican president, they started a civil war and that president is widely considered to be one of our greatest ever."
-- We didn't have a civil war when Bush was elected.
I say Trump should ignore the little shits.
They have a snowballs chance in Hades.
Trump needs to act Presidential. Don't get down in the mud with the pigs. You'll get dirty. Also, not cool.
"Trump needs to go further than just recounts in other states. He needs to demand a full audit of the election in every state. Stand in front of the American people and say, "It's important we can trust the electoral process and therefore, I'm calling for a complete audit of the entire election in all 50 states."
Yes, he absolutely should.
I tend to agree with AllenS but, if it looks like they are going forward, he should include some criteria such as voter ID and citizenship tests,
It does seem like an excellent reason to push forward with voter ID after inauguration.
If you are concerned over the popular vote, just subtract California; then Trump wins by 1.5 million.
Definitely demand a recount in California and start checking for Citizenship.
Use it as an opportunity to uncover and document all the Democrat voter fraud.
Then push through a bill protecting the right of US Citizens not to have their vote devalued by having aliens, dead people, felons, etc. cancel out their vote.
Trump should announce that the determination to prosecute or not prosecute Hillary will remain in the hands of the new AG after a review of the investigation by the new FBI Director.
Reconciliation is a two-way street.
Does a three state recount violate the rights of voters in the other 47 under the equal protection clause?
Just kidding, of course.
Why would we think a recount is more accurate than the original count? It seems like it would be much easier to arrange for shenanigans in a recount, when there's so much more time and information available, than the first time around.
Counting paper ballots would catch a situation where an enemy state (Russia) had hacked the election to interfere w/ results.
I don't think it's probable Russia hacked the election. Much more probable there was systemic polling error. Halderman agrees, but still wants a check on the system to catch hacking.
Comp security people have shown it would be easy for a foreign enemy state w/ resources to hack elections. And Russia showed willingness to interfere in this election.
Would be a relatively easy & inexpensive spy action to hack & change election results that would favour that nation-state. Halderman's team did it in less then 24 hours in a test run. "The hack, done at the board’s invitation, included Halderman’s team gaining access to cameras monitoring the BOEE server room (seen above), embedding an audio clip of the Michigan fight song into a board Web page and changing the winner in one race to Bender, cartoon robot of “Futurama” fame."" WA Post March 6 2012
Enemy states are less likely to try this type of interference if recounts are regular, because they wouldn't succeed.
No!!!!!! he won.
If you question if a ballot is double voted or from a non-citizen, it is too late to challenge once we hit a recount, unless it was a mail in ballot or the like. Because of the nature of secret ballots, etc., we can't marry up a ballot to a voter except in very, very rare circumstances.
So, during a recount, even if we find out that an area had 105% voter participation vs. registered voters, you're just out of luck, because you have no way to know which 5% of the votes are the illegal ones.
This is one of the many reasons recounts benefit a party that benefits from voter fraud.
The problem for those who wish to overturn the results is that we already have firm vote totals. They have to flip votes, not introduce new ones or Trumps/whoevers lawyers will laugh it out of court. And there is literally no way they will flip enough votes to change any state.
I don't get the concern. Trump wins a recount unless there was hacking on the level of that sponsored by an enemy state (Russia.)
It's a check on Russia. It's not as if Russian intelligence didn't interfere in the election with hacking.
WWWW: Remember when Franken won by convincing judges that ballots that were marked straight D- except for him meant that the person intended to vote for him, but didn't, while convincing judges that straight R- ballots except for his opponent showed a clear intent to NOT vote for his opponent?
That's why Republicans are very, very suspicious of targeted recounts.
I guess this is an example of fake news. Doesn't Instapundit Glenn Reynolds always say that Fascism is always descending on the right and landing on the left.
Will trump join?
The problem for those who wish to overturn the results is that we already have firm vote totals. They have to flip votes, not introduce new ones or Trumps/whoevers lawyers will laugh it out of court. And there is literally no way they will flip enough votes to change any state.
You don't understand what Halderman wants to check. He was the comp security guy from Michigan that got people's attention. Not a politician but a security expert & a researcher. From J. Alex Halderman's blog post:
"Closer to the election, when it was clear from polling data which states would have close electoral margins, the attackers might spread malware into voting machines in some of these states, rigging the machines to shift a few percent of the vote to favor their desired candidate. This malware would likely be designed to remain inactive during pre-election tests, do its dirty business during the election, then erase itself when the polls close. A skilled attacker’s work might leave no visible signs — though the country might be surprised when results in several close states were off from pre-election polls...
A few years ago, I might have said that sounds like science fiction, but 2016 has seen unprecedented cyberattacks aimed at interfering with the election. This summer, attackers broke into the email system of the Democratic National Committee and, separately, into the email account of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, and leaked private messages. Attackers infiltrated the voter registration systems of two states, Illinois and Arizona, and stole voter data. And there’s evidence that hackers attempted to breach election offices in several other states...
In all these cases, Federal agencies publicly asserted that senior officials in the Russian government commissioned these attacks. Russia has sophisticated cyber-offensive capabilities, and has shown a willingness to use them to hack elections. In 2014, during the presidential election in Ukraine, attackers linked to Russia sabotaged the country’s vote-counting infrastructure and, according to published reports, Ukrainian officials succeeded only at the last minute in defusing vote-stealing malware that was primed to cause the wrong winner to be announced...
Were this year’s deviations from pre-election polls the results of a cyberattack? Probably not. I believe the most likely explanation is that the polls were systematically wrong, rather than that the election was hacked. But I don’t believe that either one of these seemingly unlikely explanations is overwhelmingly more likely than the other. The only way to know whether a cyberattack changed the result is to closely examine the available physical evidence — paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania...
It doesn’t matter whether the voting machines are connected to the Internet. Shortly before each election, poll workers copy the ballot design from a regular desktop computer in a government office, and use removable media (like the memory card from a digital camera) to load the ballot onto each machine. That initial computer is almost certainly not well secured, and if an attacker infects it, vote-stealing malware can hitch a ride to every voting machine in the area. There’s no question that this is possible for technically sophisticated attackers. (If my Ph.D. students and I were criminals, I’m sure we could pull it off.) "
"This malware would likely be designed to remain inactive during pre-election tests, do its dirty business during the election, then erase itself when the polls close. "
-- I didn't realize security experts were this paranoid and delusional. If the enemy's attack is that perfect, what's the point of checking it?
We should just listen to Republicans and clean up voter rolls, return to paper ballots and remove the electrical component entirely.
Not only does he assume that we have a perfect, undetectable enemy attach -- he also assumes that government computers are un-secured and that no one tested/checked the machines, and even if they did, that the enemy's technology is so superior as to be invisible until it changes things when no one is watching in ways in which are undetectable.
This guy's "expert" status is in serious question here.
Right, it's not fair to target only states that Trump closely won. You also have to recount states that Hillary closely won. That way the mere fluctuation odds even out.
Except of course that the Dems only introduce needed fraud in the Trump win states, which wipes out the meaning of the recount anyway.
WWWW: Remember when Franken won by convincing judges that ballots that were marked straight D- except for him meant that the person intended to vote for him, but didn't, while convincing judges that straight R- ballots except for his opponent showed a clear intent to NOT vote for his opponent?
That's why Republicans are very, very suspicious of targeted recounts.
Yeah but this recount wouldn't be an argument over specific ballots. It's a state-wide paper record recount to make sure malware didn't systemically corrupt the vote. Halderman wants a simple recount of the record -- it would catch a malware attack.
Wasn't the Franken election much closer numerically then Wisconsin? Seems like you need a very close election to flip an election by arguing over individual ballots.
"Russia has sophisticated cyber-offensive capabilities, and has shown a willingness to use them to hack elections. In 2014, during the presidential election in Ukraine, attackers linked to Russia sabotaged the country’s vote-counting infrastructure and, according to published reports, Ukrainian officials succeeded only at the last minute in defusing vote-stealing malware that was primed to cause the wrong winner to be announced."
-- So, this expert, who believes that Russia has technology to invisibly attack us in ways we could never see, believes that -- somehow -- the Ukraine managed to successfully stop a Russian attack, but that America would be unable to do so?
"Yeah but this recount wouldn't be an argument over specific ballots. It's a state-wide paper record recount to make sure malware didn't systemically corrupt the vote. Halderman wants a simple recount of the record -- it would catch a malware attack.
Wasn't the Franken election much closer numerically then Wisconsin? Seems like you need a very close election to flip an election by arguing over individual ballots."
-- No. The recount will very quickly become about which votes from which machines we should allow, which we should audit, which should be thrown out, and which we accept.
How do we know this? Because EVERY time the left demands a recount, they start by saying exactly what you say here. Then once it starts, they shift the goal posts and fudge the rules.
We've been burned too much, and we've also lost the value of time and security by waiting this long. If the left truly believes our election is in danger, join Republicans in cleaning up voter rolls and moving to a paper system for the future.
I don't get the concern.
The concern is trunkloads of ballots showing up late, as they did in Minnesota to put Frankin over the top. Plus it should also look at states Hillary won by a hair. But since this is happening so late, that option will be foreclosed. We won't see any effort to ensure that all of those votes in California, which put Hillary over the top in the popular vote, were cast by citizens, since California routinely registers illegals to vote when given their driver's license. In order to not be registered to vote in California, they have to officially declare themselves illegal aliens.
Fine to do paper ballots. You're gonna have to hire a LOT more people to do the counting.
-- I didn't realize security experts were this paranoid and delusional.
LoL -- I won't argue w/ paranoid. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
If the enemy's attack is that perfect, what's the point of checking it?
It only works if you don't suspect & don't re-count count the paper record.
This guy's "expert" status is in serious question here.
This guy is for real. He's the reason people took it seriously when the story broke. He thinks polling error is more probable. So do I. But am also concerned about Russia for future actions.
Plus, since Hillary has apparently joined in on Wisconsin, Voter ID is going to be re-litigated.
Wisconsin Green Party co-chairman George Martin said that the party was seeking a "reconciliation of paper records" -- a request that would go one step further than a simple recount, which is expected to begin next week, and that he hopes will spur an investigation into the integrity of the state's voting system.
"This is a process, a first step to examine whether our electoral democracy is working," Martin said.
Remember the motto
Of the Bengal Lancers:
Don't ask questions,
You only get answers.
This guy is for real. He's the reason people took it seriously when the story broke.
No, the reason people took it seriously is because they are in serious denial. If you read his original article, he admits to zero evidence. This whole "Russian hackers' meme was put out by the Democrats to get the press to give Wikileaks a good leaving alone.
Thinking that Trump should just ignore this is nonsense. Nothing to prove under the current system. His job is to quell future anxieties by authenticating our voting mechanisms and by moving Congress to legislate on the electoral vs popular vote being challenged by those who feel disenfranchised this time around by "tradition."
Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. We just celebrated Thanksgiving on that premise.
"If my Ph.D. students and I were criminals, I’m sure we could pull it off."
This assumes they are smarter than the detectives attempting to catch them. Many, many more people would get away with murder if they were wrong about being smarter than the homicide detectives. So yeah, I'm sure you could "pull it off" in the sense you could hack in the way you suggest. I doubt you would escape an effort to catch you at it. A few hours in an interrogation room, hell a few minutes unless you happen to be a sociopath, and the cops would know whether you had something to hide. And they can smell your fear.
"I believe the most likely explanation is that the polls were systematically wrong, rather than that the election was hacked. But I don’t believe that either one of these seemingly unlikely explanations is overwhelmingly more likely than the other."
I do. One involves oversight, the other is conducted by people who have repeatedly demonstrated their incompetence. Why doesn't Gallup do Presidential polling anymore? Didn't they predict Romney beating Obama? Nobody worried about hacking then. Talk about fake news.
I am also given to understand that Dewey defeated Truman. God damned Russians!
Good idea. They bring a knife, you bring a gun. They bring a gun, you bring a howitzer. The only thing that works with these knuckleheads is pushback twice as hard.
I doubt this guy's realness. If the Ukraine somehow spotted Russia's cyber attacks, I assure you, the U.S. is significantly more advanced and, if it was there to be spotted, it would have been.
But, let's just ask a simple question.
If Russia has the choice to tip the election: Why tip it in the direction of Trump, who they don't trust, who agreed with Romney about Russia being America's geopolitical foe, instead of toward Hillary Clinton -- who until Wikileaks happened, was on board with Russia being a great ally of the U.S.?
The only reason that Russia is even antagonistic towards Clinton is that in the last few weeks of the campaign, she chose them to be her whipping boy. Which means, you have to believe that Russia somehow came up, in a few short weeks, with a massive, powerful and invisible cyber attack on American democracy, all because they thought Clinton claiming they were doing massive, powerful, invisible cyber attacks on American democracy might hurt them.
There are very few reasons for Russia -- if we assume them to be a rational actor -- to act as this "expert" is assuming they are acting.
Castro is dead. Hillary lives.
-- So, this expert, who believes that Russia has technology to invisibly attack us in ways we could never see, believes that -- somehow -- the Ukraine managed to successfully stop a Russian attack, but that America would be unable to do so?
I don't think Russia hacked the election & don't want to sound like a crank -- but Ukraine was watching Russia.
Ukraine knows what Russia is trying to do in their elections. We aren't watching Russia at the individual state level. Is US intelligence investigating possible malware use at the state level? prob. not. Our elections aren't national but local.
I don't like the Green Party. The Clinton people need to go away. Russia almost certainly didn't hack it.
But I'm good with a check. Russia has been way too interested in this election & a hack would be a cheap expenditure for an intelligence operation.
Am I too paranoid? probably.
Ack. Make that "right about being smarter"
Her team is saying they don't think anything is amiss. Obama says nothing happened.
My question is if Trump will join the effort.
'There are very few reasons for Russia -- if we assume them to be a rational actor -- to act as this "expert" is assuming they are acting.'
That's the genius of the whole thing: it was the Canadians.
"We aren't watching Russia at the individual state level. Is US intelligence investigating possible malware use at the state level?"
-- You're an idiot if you believe America is not watching the election.
"Russia has been way too interested in this election & a hack would be a cheap expenditure for an intelligence operation."
-- Russia showed practically zero interest in the election until Clinton began rattling sabers at them to try and take the heat off of her that Wikileaks was causing.
The "Russia" lie shows once and for all that Democrats think the American people are stupid.
"My question is if Trump will join the effort."
He should say: "This is a mindset. This is how Hillary thinks and it's funny, but it's also really troubling. That is not the way our democracy works. Let's be clear about what she is saying and what that means. She is denigrating — she is talking down our democracy and I, for one, am appalled that somebody who was the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position."
Why so he can be a whiny baby, too? Too late, he already is one. He should just shut up and take the high road. Any respect i had for him is gone, especially after he is getting caught up in the junk that is post election. He should just face forward, get on with his appointments and leave the whining to the losers.
Vicki from Pasadena
Why the Russian's wouldn't want bought and paid for Hillary, is the problem with this Russia is behind Trump meme. After all, her button didn't say "Reset," it said "Overcharge" and Russia dutifully ponied up and have been getting what they want from Hillary.
Russia is a petro-state. They wan't Keystone XL good and dead, fracking restricted as far as possible, and US reserves locked up by environmental regulations. Look at what has happened to Venezuela, then tell me why Russia would prefer "Drill baby drill" Trump?
This is just Hillary propaganda to distract from Wikileaks that won't die.
That's the genius of the whole thing: it was the Canadians
LOL! At least Canada has something to gain from a Trump presidency, unlocking access to the oil sands.
I doubt this guy's realness.
The Michigan computer security program is excellent. He might be too paranoid but he's for real.
Why tip it in the direction of Trump, who they don't trust, who agreed with Romney about Russia being America's geopolitical foe, instead of toward Hillary Clinton -- who until Wikileaks happened, was on board with Russia being a great ally of the U.S.?
You'd have to ask Russia. Could be more about causing chaos and/ or interrupting the Nato alliances. Trump did put the Nato alliance into doubt with his rhetoric during the election. Didn't Trump say he was ok with Russia in Crimea? Also seems to support Russia in Syria.
It's unlikely a recount is going to change the votes in any significant way. Even when George W. Bush won Florida by a number less than 1/100th of this, Gore and the AP were still unable to come up with a way to make him the winner. Still, if I were Trump, I'd send an army of lawyers to the urban areas of those 3 states and go through the voter records there with a fine-toothed comb and publicize each and every irregularity he finds, while also keeping an eye out for any shenanigans like boxes or bags of uncounted ballots.
Then push for real voting reform once this stunt fails.
If Hillary pleads no lo contendre to 750,000 felony counts, President Trump will let her serve house arrest in a trailer park in Arkansas.
Why the Russian's wouldn't want bought and paid for Hillary, is the problem with this Russia is behind Trump meme. After all, her button didn't say "Reset," it said "Overcharge" and Russia dutifully ponied up and have been getting what they want from Hillary.
yeah but HRC was going to be pro-EU & a strong NATO supporter. I suspect Russia would like to weaken the EU & would be happy if NATO fractured, esp. because of their interest in eastern Europe.
From his rhetoric Trump isn't very interested in NATO and is anti-EU/ supports Nigel Farage.
But does he want to be represented in the recount?
What's especially brilliant in this greatest-of-all master crimes is that it was hacked in a way to keep Trump from winning the popular vote. So many layers of genius to this conspiracy...
"yeah but HRC was going to be pro-EU & a strong NATO supporter. "
-- Trump wants NATO to not be the U.S. with European support, but rather, wants European countries to have skin in the game. That's much, much more dangerous for Russia than a continued NATO force that is, essentially, the U.S. with some European assistance. Russia WANTS NATO to remain weak and rely on the U.S., who is hesitant to engage for European interests.
People chose paper ballots to avoid using the George Soros voting machines that were already showing Hillary votes when someone voted straight Republican. Academics cannot figure out why people asked for paper ballots. Solution? Replace the academics.
Was Castro depressed over the money he lost in the Hillary defeat?
Trump wants NATO to not be the U.S. with European support, but rather, wants European countries to have skin in the game. That's much, much more dangerous for Russia than a continued NATO force that is, essentially, the U.S. with some European assistance. Russia WANTS NATO to remain weak and rely on the U.S., who is hesitant to engage for European interests.
The USA has been firmly for NATO since post WWII. There has been no doubt that a strike against 1 is a strike against all and the USA would bring her full power in defence of any NATO country.
Russia would be happy to see any cracks in that wall esp. in regards to eastern European countries.
In the 2008 election MN carried Obama by 11 percent, but the Franken/Coleman Senate election was too close to call. State law mandated a recount. But some 250,000 had voted for Obama but not for Franken ( he did better in 2014 ). The recount went for Franken by a literal handful of votes. Coleman sued, but the court found for Franken. The number of votes involved was quite small. My point: MN is not a good example for the current brouhaha.
The CW is that Jill Stein is carrying water for HRC, but maybe not. Maybe Soros has put his chips elsewhere. Anyway, with serious stuff like this going on HRC ( may she rot ) should want her lawyers to keep and eye on the proceedings. Trump should want his lawyers there, too. But an audit of NV might be in order, just because Dirty Harry Reid has his fingerprints all over the result.
Keeping Merrick Garland off the court may turn out to be more important than anyone imagined.
This recount bullshit has really gotten corrosive. We can do better in this country with respect to election integrity. The Republicans should prioritize this.
That's being overdramatic dont you think? It's going to be a recount and that's it.
Putin is inside the OODA loops of the Democratic leadership; now they are seeing phantoms.
First we have to locate the Russian hacker who deleted all of wwww's italics tags.
Democrats can see Russia from their bathroom server closets.
You'd have to ask Russia.
Ha ha ha!! Because it makes no sense! Russia rises and falls on the price of oil. Hillary wants it higher, Trump wants it lower. Everything else is so much conspiracy crapola to cover up for the unbelievable shit that came out about the DNC and Hillary in Wikileaks.
Paul, didn't he explain it? They are extremely subtle! The Russians put the 'b' in subtle. Deleting the italics tags is exactly the kind of thing they would do in an attack!
Hillary Clinton putting her interests over the good of the country again.
Democrats sure are hard to take at their word. It appears that if a democrat is stating something, they are lying.
The Russians were able to hack everything but Hillary's server. L O Fucking L.
Why so he can be a whiny baby, too? Too late, he already is one. He should just shut up and take the high road. Any respect i had for him is gone, especially after he is getting caught up in the junk that is post election. He should just face forward, get on with his appointments and leave the whining to the losers.
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, Vicky from Pasadena. Or are you telling us you've lost all respect for Hillary?
Awaiting your timely reply,
Quaestor
As a Wisconsin voter I am pretty damn sick of the left accepting polls and not accepting election results in Wisconsin. With Walker we had a recall; with Trump a recount.
You know what it is, lefties? You are out of touch and so the election results are a horrible shock. You are smug and so you can't take the shock. So you say:"Let's accuse flyover country of being taken in by the Russians instead of acknowledging that flyover has seen through us. We sold off their manufacturing economy to the Chinese and the sale made us rich. But we gave them lots of welfare and Obamacare which is all the stupid sods want. The vote 'against us' is, could only be, a Russian plot."
The Titanic is not sinking. It can't. God himself could not sink this ship.
With control of 33 state legislatures, Republicans need to create a Constitutional Amendment for voter integrity. Here's my list of what it should entail:
1) Election day becomes a national holiday. Everyone off except for critical infrastructure and emergency, and even those employees must be given as much time to vote as needed.
2) A total ban on early voting. Absentee voting only for the US military. Banned mail in voting.
3) Indelible ink (purple fingers) for everyone who votes.
4) All voting requires presentation of state photo ID. Address must match the district being voted in, or proper change of address documentation.
5) A national voter database, keyed off SSN, used to prevent registration in multiple districts.
6) Every 10 years, upon completion of the Census, the national database is compared to the census, in order to purge dead voters.
7) Illegal votes, regardless of "intent", bear a minimum 6 months in jail, permanent loss of voting rights, and $5000 fine in 2016 dollars keyed to inflation.
I miss anything?
I must say that Jill Stein puzzles me, in the weeks leading up to the election Stein told us several times that Hillary in the White House means a grave risk of nuclear war.
Now all of a sudden Stein want us all dead or glow-in-the-dark... Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, as they say.
Oh yeah. One more.
8) #7 stated the penalties for individual voter fraud. Those responsible for organizing fraud resulting in more than 5 fraudulent votes will be charged with treason.
I miss anything?
Crush your enemies. See them driven in chains before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.
Get to zuh choppah!
Oh, and yes, paper ballots only, which must be permanently preserved.
WWWW sounds like Chuck.
9) make sure there are only a few polling places in D precincts so if they want to vote they need to stand in line for many hours.
10) hire a conservative company or Russia to manage voter list purging.
BTW Quaester,
If a company or state mistakenly purges five people from the voter rolls, is that treason, too?
Wwww wrote quoting some twerp: "Closer to the election, when it was clear from polling data which states would have close electoral margins, the attackers might spread malware into voting machines in some of these states ...."
What bullshit! So voting machines are connected to the internet? Or have Russian sleepers gotten jobs as election techies in anticipation of this election? Or maybe we should pretend they would rather have Trump than Hillary who is bought and paid for.
Thanks, wwwduh.
LyinPB:
Bureaucratic errors, anyone who was denied a vote, can file a provisional ballot which is compared to the database to confirm no double voting. The bureaucratic error must be investigated and if it represents deliberate disenfranchisement, yes, treason.
And I'm not Quaestor.
For Immediate Release
DHS Press Office
Contact: 202-282-8010
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.
victoria said...
"Any respect i had for him is gone"
I wasn't here when Vicki from Pasadena said she had some respect for Donald Trump, respect that he will undoubtedly regret having forfeited. Does anybody else here remember that?
Trump should say:
"We are committing $25 million to check every ballot in Wisconsin. Any illegal found to have voted will be arrested and deported Jan 21st.
Any citizen who voted twice will be arrested.
Any citizen who marked a ballot for someone else without permission will be arrested.
Now, let's start counting... And let us know when you want to repeat the exercise in PA and MI."
What bullshit! So voting machines are connected to the internet? Or have Russian sleepers gotten jobs as election techies in anticipation of this election? Or maybe we should pretend they would rather have Trump than Hillary who is bought and paid for.
no it doesn't need to be connected to the internet. Halderman explains this in his post.
signing off now. take a look at Halderman's post if interested in comp security. but he's not going to interest you if you want to debate partisan election rhetoric stuff.
Them Democrats was so compromised by the Russki's that they made Hillary their candidate, lol. They are so damn good I think these DNC calls for a recount probably really came from Putin, just to mess with us.
You know how they hacked Podesta's email?
"It wasn’t technical; there wasn’t a big security breach on Google’s servers. In short, someone tricked Podesta into giving them his password, he didn’t have two-factor authentication set up as an additional check, and the campaign’s IT team led him astray. Thanks to WikiLeaks, we now know how it happened:
On March 19, Podesta received an email from “no-reply@accounts.googlemail.com” — a user falsely posing as Google, notifying Podesta that his password had been compromised by someone in Ukraine. The email provided a bit.ly link to change the password."
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/28/13456368/how-john-podesta-email-got-hacked
These fucking Democrat idiots want us to believe that their mad h4xor skillz tell them that the Russians stole millions of votes across a dozen states, double lol.
wwww quotes Halderman saying:
This malware would likely be designed to remain inactive during pre-election tests, do its dirty business during the election, then erase itself when the polls close. A skilled attacker’s work might leave no visible signs .
So they can hack the voting machines an leave not a trace, yet every case where we know a hack occurred ( Podesta and others ) they left enough evidence that 17 different U.S. intelligence agencies were able to tell it was a Russian hack. Or so I have heard.
Good thing we have all these experts.
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! White Hat H4xors KoldBurN and Buff33luvr have detected an incoming Russki Hack attack! Democrats are advised to login in to http://aol.it/2fDQ66p to change their security credentials!
Tim in Vermont
This whole "Russian hackers' meme was put out by the Democrats to get the press to give Wikileaks a good leaving alone.
Boom!
According to ABC, the Obama administration has said "the elections were free and fair from a cybersecurity perspective" and that the "Federal government did not observe any increased level of malicious cyber activity aimed at disrupting our electoral process on Election day."
Looks like Obama just threw granny off the train.
Exile, old news! He's also the one who urged Hillary to concede as quickly as she did.
Lyin'PB_Ombudsman said...
9) make sure there are only a few polling places in D precincts so if they want to vote they need to stand in line for many hours.
11/26/16, 8:38 PM
That one's been done.
vicki from pasadena said.....
something that was not in lockstep conformity.
CRUSH HER
Blogger wwww said...
For Immediate Release
DHS Press Office
Contact: 202-282-8010
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations.
These are the same guys who swore up and down that Sadaam had weapons of mass destruction, right?
The dirt that Trump's Independent group has on the "Establishment " is so serious that all stops are out in keeping Trump from the Presidency. Assassination is most likely by the old GOP.
Blogger wildswan said..."As a Wisconsin voter I am pretty damn sick of the left accepting polls and not accepting election results in Wisconsin. With Walker we had a recall; with Trump a recount."
Me too. Different excuses, same shit.
Why the U of M guy is wrong.
@Althouse, didn't one of your heroes say to "punch back twice as hard."
Exactly. That 2 million advantage in popular vote is most likely due to mass influx of illegal immigration voting. Lets see how many actually did.
go for it jr, so we can put this bs to rest once and for all.
Yes, geof, it was the Trump Feingold voter, but it was also the differential with the exit polls.
Is US intelligence investigating possible malware use at the state level? prob. not. Our elections aren't national but local.
They specifically did. And even Obama's admin has said there was no unusual activity involving the election. And they'd want to help Hillary if they possibly could.
Yeah but this recount wouldn't be an argument over specific ballots. It's a state-wide paper record recount to make sure malware didn't systemically corrupt the vote
Except more votes are always found in Dem cities. Every time. It leads to the idea that Democrat cities shouldn't be allowed to run their own elections ever.
It's vital that Trump realizes that his promise to not prosecute Hillary, like her concession, is an offer that can be withdrawn with few negatives to him. Sic Sessions on her.
I have zero faith in recounts. When Dems know the number they need to find, they are amazing at doing so.
1) Election day becomes a national holiday. Everyone off except for critical infrastructure and emergency, and even those employees must be given as much time to vote as needed.
2) A total ban on early voting. Absentee voting only for the US military. Banned mail in voting.
3) Indelible ink (purple fingers) for everyone who votes.
4) All voting requires presentation of state photo ID. Address must match the district being voted in, or proper change of address documentation.
5) A national voter database, keyed off SSN, used to prevent registration in multiple districts.
6) Every 10 years, upon completion of the Census, the national database is compared to the census, in order to purge dead voters.
7) Illegal votes, regardless of "intent", bear a minimum 6 months in jail, permanent loss of voting rights, and $5000 fine in 2016 dollars keyed to inflation.
I'd say a purge every 2 years. Purge it all and make people re-apply every 2 years. Voting is endlessly more important than driving a car and you have to renew your license for that every few years. I hate the idea of a national voting database --- but I do not trust Democrats to run their state elections given their shenanigans with recounts.
make sure there are only a few polling places in D precincts so if they want to vote they need to stand in line for many hours.
Most Democratic precincts are in urban areas, and most urban areas are totally controlled by Democrats...so if there aren't enough polling places it is not the fault of the Republicans.
HT said:
vicki from pasadena said.....
something that was not in lockstep conformity."
No, she said something both and stupid and untruthful, as is her wont.
"CRUSH HER"
Only a precious lefty snowflake thinks a critical comment on a blog = CRUSHING!!!
Trump should ask for a recount in states that went to Hillary and are too incompetent to complete the recount on time. That could lead to that state's electoral votes being rejected by Congress.
If that happened, either Trump wins the electoral vote or it goes to the House who elects Trump. Trump just has to make sure Hillary can't win in the electoral college.
A Reuters survey found local governments in nearly a dozen, mostly Republican-dominated counties in Georgia have adopted plans to reduce the number of voting stations, citing cost savings and efficiency.
In seven of those counties, African-Americans, who traditionally back Democrats, comprised at least a quarter of the population, and in several counties the changes will disproportionately affect black voters. At least three other counties in Georgia dropped consolidation plans under public pressure.
Do it, rich, and put this bs to rest once and for all.
"State law allows counties to consolidate polling places in this election to save money. Neither Berkeley, Charleston nor Dorchester counties plan to do so."
The ultimate solution is to consolidate polling places within the city of Washington, something that Charping plans to discuss with the Wilkes County Commission at the next meeting. “I’ve asked to speak to the commissioners at their next meeting. I think that having four polling places so close to each other – the Young Farmers building, the senior citizens center, the Pope Center, and the courthouse is costing the tax payers too much. If we could combine those four polling places and use the Pope Center because of its size and parking, we could save a lot of money.”
The rural polling places in Rayle, Tignall, and Metasville would not be consolidated, Charping said. “We’ve got to keep those three rural polling places because some people can’t travel that far, but in Washington, we’ve got four locations within a half mile of each other, and that’s not necessary.”
St. Joseph County Democrats and Republicans are going back-and-forth over a proposal to reduce the number of places you can vote.
The possible changes were prompted by new state laws.
A mayor outside Atlanta says he was wasn't serious when he posted on social media telling his followers to remember that Democrats should vote on Wednesday.
“Remember the voting days: Republicans vote on Tuesday, 11/8 and Democrats vote on Wednesday, 11/9," Jefferson Riley, the mayor of Mansfield, Ga., wrote on his personal Facebook page on Tuesday.
Most Democratic precincts are in urban areas, and most urban areas are totally controlled by Democrats
In the 1996 election, my mother who was 98 was not allowed to vote. Her Congressman was Jesse Jackson Jr and the area was in Chicago where she had lived for 98 years. The polling place was in the lobby of the high rise building where she had lived for 33 years. The (black) election judge told her he could not verify her residence. The precinct went 98% for Clinton and the local Chicago crooks but one of the six Republicans in the building was not allowed to vote.
Again, where is Stein's standing to demand a recount? There aren't enough votes to make her the winner.
FWIW, I prefer the "buttercup" insult rather than "snowflake".
For some reason I think it's funnier.
The report looked at Maryland, South Carolina and Florida, where many voters waited for hours to cast a vote in the 2012 presidential election. In all three, minority precincts were more likely to have had long lines. In South Carolina, the 10 precincts with the longest waits had more than twice the percentage of black registered voters, on average, than the rest of the state.
There was a clear relationship in those states between the racial makeup of a precinct and the number of voting machines it received from the state or county. In Maryland, the 10 precincts with the lowest number of machines per voter had more than twice the average percentage of Hispanic voters. In South Carolina, the law requires one voting machine per 250 voters, but that requirement is routinely violated in minority areas. Richland County, which is about half black, had a precinct with 432 voters per machine, which contributed to extensive delays.
In SC, the Democrat head of elections for one of the largest (mainly minority) counties was so incompetent she was removed from office shortly after her disastrous run in 2012.
In Maryland, the 10 precincts with the lowest number of machines per voter had more than twice the average percentage of Hispanic voters.
And just who do you think is in charge in Maryland?
Someone on another blog pointed out how odd some of the persons/org's that the Wisconsin Election Election Committee follows on Twitter.
I checked it out and thought so as well. Thought I'd see if any Wisconsinites on Althouse find it odd: https://twitter.com/WI_Elections
Damikesc,
I'd prefer not to do the database either, but I can't think of any other way to prevent registering in multiple states, which is a preferred lefty fraud method. It wouldn't be hard to have ONLY the SSN visible to anyone working with the data, though, allowing identifying info to be seen only if duplicate registrations were found.
Jill Stein has now raised just $6 million dollars for the recount. Just $1 million to go. Come on Dems, throw your money into the pit of despair.
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
Gram Parsons "Hickory Wind" starts off "In South Carolina" and gets emotional, for me, after the drinkin' starts.
It makes me feel better, each time it begins.
Drawing me home, to hickory winds.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJKRA1ZIeiM
Ah yes, didn't have to scour me no internet bowels neither.
So that's very, very good. Okay, it's very good.
Believe me.
I saw the Scoured Bowells at Alpine about thirty minutes before Stevie was killed.
SB left a bad taste in my mouth.
Oh and Stevie dying young like that too.
I had put Stevie's death above, bad taste-wise here now ya follow, but Steve Jobs is a jealous man with auto-correct living on FOREVER.
Okay go with me here: Steve Jobs rigged 2008 against Hillary!
You know he was/is/hasbeenbutwillbetooha! capable of it, he is smart.
Like Pete "Sneaky" Theil.
He is smart too.
Guilty as QED indicates, which is beyond any doubt not shrouded in homophobic racist bigotry par excellence.
I have decided I am the one who has to take over for Drudge.
Long thought, whatnot.
Precise.
Strategic.
Localized.
Fucking LOCALIZED OKAY!
Now which one of you fellars is gonna let him know and make it happen?
Low Cal will be "code" "words" for "local" further than you know.
AmIright?
?
Well am I? Am I.
Am I right? Am I?
Am I right, am I.
MY NAME AIN'T SAM!
When you only got you that one bird in that one hand, why not two?
WHY NOT TWO DAMNIT?
What have they done to you so you refuse NOT ONLY ONE, BUT GOD FORBID INDEED TWO TWO TWO birds in your very, very small hands.
Jewell's hands, she from, indeed Puffy Diddly Whore Fucked, most unTupac man I ever heard of, me being white and all I ain't know anything about Pac. Never have never could never will.
Pac was all lies sold to me by business men.
Like Orson the Citizen.
Trump's nasal issue, breathing too heavily through his nose while miked, is the reason, single, he won, as. UW attendee yet not graduateblike myself speculates.
Millions of graftshit graftshit graftshit must be spent to prove this horseshit, so pay up bitches.
PAY YOUR ASS UP NOW MOFO I AIN'T anti-UNPLAYING.
How could they do a recount in California when they aren't even done with the count?
The most important thing is Catholic.
no it doesn't need to be connected to the internet. Halderman explains this in his post.
1. The problem is, since they aren't connected, the malware would have to have some predetermined count to add to Trump and take from Hillary that would have to correspond to the unknown-at-the-time vote totals Hillary will get in other precincts and districts. And still correspond with the voting patterns of other years.
2. If he says he can- and anyone can- infect a voting machine with undetectable malware, why would we trust the people working the recount to not do that very thing?
3. The time for a national conversation on vote safety is before an election, not after one. Oh sure, let's just go ahead and audit to make sure nothing is wrong, in this completely partisan way after Halderman has been talking to the losing campaign.
4.Anyone pushing for an audit of the votes and NOT pushing in advance for audits of the voter rolls or voter IDs is a hack.
Wasn't there a big push to move to electronic voting because of another election the Democrats had a hard time accepting the results of? All those paper ballots were too hard to punch or mark!
I am hoping there is a recount in PA, as in Philly. Let's open this bastion of fraud for all the world to see.
Have Trump send in his battery of lawyers and fillet these corruptocrats.
Really, Halderman's "case" for tampering is just supposition. And there's no reason to suspect anything did go wrong in Wisconsin, except that Hillary lost.
Did he say anything at the time pre-election when Trump was saying he feared fraud? The time when everyone (including Hillary Clinton) was excoriating Trump for undermining democracy?
I don't understand why Stein is dong this. Does her party get something if her vote total was better than it now stands? Such as not having to petition to be on future ballots?
Anyone who thinks Stein is really behind this and not the Clintons is really naive. Stein has nothing to gain from this. I'm sure Trump realizes this, and he realizes that this would not be happening if he hadn't announced that he would not appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary's emails and the Clinton Foundation.
What he has to do now is tell the Clintons, very quietly, that he can reverse that decision and will if this crap doesn't stop immediately. Then follow through. He can live with the embarrassment. He can't govern effectively if he lets people like Hillary fuck with him this way.
The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government
So it's not a "slam dunk" then?
Besides, they didn't make that shit up. Are we supposed to ignore it because a government agency, and we have all seen how politicized these agencies can be, see the IRS, FEC, DoJ..., told us we should ignore this stuff? We let Bill Ayers off after he was clearly guilty of planning a bombing of a military dance, so I guess we were supposed to ignore all of the shit Hillary did too! We never should have seen those transcripts of the Goldman Sachs speeches!
A Hillary voter's view of all this - Jill Stein is running a scam:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/11/26/self-serving-jill-stein-recount-scam/
These states weren't hacked by the Russians, or, really, anyone else. We know this because people split tickets, and, for example, in WI, Trump outperformed Ron Johnson in working class white areas, and underperfomed him in upper middle class white areas, where a number of traditional Republican voters appear to have voted a (Gary) Johnson/(Ron) Johnson ballot. This is subtle enough that it would have probably been impossible to program in advance (and the machines weren't connected to the Internet), yet is part of a consistent pattern all across the rust belt. In retrospect, one of Crooked Hillary's major strategic mistakes was to take this demographic for granted, and not do appreciable campaigning there (in the rust belt) as the race tightened as the election neared (apparently, her husband, much more in tune with that demographic, having essentially come from there, warned her about it, and she apparently ignored his advice).
If leftists were brighter people, they'd realize that the two leftist candidates completely played them for fools. First Bernie not only buckled under when it became apparent that the DNC had fixed Hillary's nomination, but he actually campaigned for her - for the Wall Street, status quo candidate that represented everything he claims to be against. Now Jill Stein, who was arguing before the election that Hillary was more dangerous than Trump when it came to foreign policy, has joined forces with the Clinton camp.
Very principled idealists you have there, leftists. But then you never were great judges of character when it comes to those who lead you. Witness the left's slobbering love of Castro, a real dictator, while decrying Trump as Hitler. Why should we listen to you about anything?
Anyone who thinks Stein is really behind this and not the Clintons is really naive. Stein has nothing to gain from this. I'm sure Trump realizes this,
I think Stein is doing this to raise money for the Greens. A lot of angry lefties will chip in and the Greens will take the money and squirrel it away.
Jill Stein is the biggest loser in all this. She went from neutral to negative in a lot of people's eyes.
Jill Stein is the biggest loser in all this. She went from neutral to negative in a lot of people's eyes.
That happens a lot to people who get involved with the Clinton Crime Family.
This whole recount is just a way to maintain left crybabyism. (The left is wearing safety pins. Maybe we should start wearing pacifiers.) The idea is to cast Trump's efforts at reconciliation in the shade while we fight about the recount. I see that the left is trying to block reconciliation; I hope Trump wins this battle too.
The Walker fight and now the Trump fight - it's deja vue all over again. Maybe our hostess could use her free time to write a book on the Walker fight including the John Doe case and Project Veritas and with Madison and New York gay insights insights from a blogger point of view - called Through a Blog Darkly?
The biggest loser, I think is this guy --
“You don’t necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country” -- Bernie Sanders
Then, after the election he bought his third house. You can't make this stuff up.
BREAKING - Bernie Sanders is about to make a speech supporting the People.
From the porch of his 3rd multi-million dollar house.
I should have gone into sales. These people are smug idiots.
The big question is, who will be richer after the recount, Sanders or Stein?
Why should Stein be permitted to buy a recount if there is no probability that she would win? I bet some Secretaries of States will decline her request for a recount on that premise, and then she keeps the $millions. This is a Gofundme scam writ large.
Exiledon:
From your link
"Even when the ultimate opponent is a raging racist, bigoted, misogynistic, female choice hating and torture loving shill like Donald Trump."
That right there - Tired tired tired bullcrap.
All the while the left spin and exaggerate the worst garbage about Trump - the left ignore the Clinton Crime apparatus. She set up a private server while heading the State Department - as a play-for-play scheme to enrich herself to the tune of millions.
No mention of Clinton the crook from the collective bullcrap left. THIS IS WHY HILLARY LOST. SHE'S A LIAR AND A CROOK. FIGURE IT OUT.
The collective left's delusion: "She didn't campaign hard enough".
NO - she's a liar and a crook. Deal.
She also didn't campaign hard enough, nor did she campaign in the right places (the rust belt - the loss of which lost the election for her). She was doing a couple events a week, while Trump was doing 3-4 a day, in the last weeks. I really don't think that, in the end, it was over-confidence, but rather, lack of stamina, from probably her health issues. We were seeing physical issues last spring, but they seemed to get more frequent as the campaign progressed. She should have bowed out a year or so ago, while the Dems could still get a plausible candidate into the race (not O'Malley, and not Sanders). Maybe even Slo Joe Biden, who likely could have done much better in the Rust Belt. But she put her ambition and overwhelming entitlement ahead of her party, and, arguably, the country. (Given the ultimate election demographics, I do think that Biden, despite his mental issues, could have beaten Trump - he likely would have done as well with minorities, better in the Rust Belt, and wasn't as singularly corrupt).
This is a good opportunity for President-Elect Trump to demand that the Federal Government determine how many illegal aliens voted in California.
The Trump Administration should use the full resources of the Federal Government to identify, prosecute and deport every illegal immigrant who voted -- even if it's a million.
The Trump Administration should teach our country's Scientific Progressives a lesson they never EVER will forget about fraudulent voting.
Any illegal alien deported for fraudulent voting who wants to appeal the deportation order should be able to do so only from the US consulate in his native country.
So Trump tweets that Jill Stein's recount requests are just a scam to raise money. Does he not realize that any candidate on the ballot can request a recount provided THAT CANDIDATE pay for the recount. So she is raising money to pay for it. And why is everyone so worked up about the matter? I mean, Trump spent tons of time in every rally in the waning days of the campaign complaining about the "rigged system." Now he claims that over 3 million people nationally voted illegally. So i would think he, and his fan club, would be eager for this opportunity to get some insight into the performance of the system. He gets to check the accuracy of results in at least those three states and it doesn't cost him a dime. Why is that a bad thing?
ellamentary said...
He gets to check the accuracy of results in at least those three states and it doesn't cost him a dime. Why is that a bad thing?
Since human beings are going to count these votes over again, and if they counted them over again 20 more times, chances are that you'd get 21 different vote totals. Why do you think that counting them over again would be any more accurate than counting them the first time?
Except ellementry, it isn't about the recounting of votes. It's about taking those states out of play for the electoral count. If neither candidate has enough electoral votes to make 270 the who wins the election gets decided by congress.
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