I'm linking to Madison.com, which gives a verbatim quote from Koval but not from Baldeh.
The City Council vote 19-1 to approve of spending $350,000 from the city's reserve fund to hire to hire another expert to study the Madison police, which — as we discussed here yesterday —Koval strongly opposed. Koval had written:
(To [vote against the spending] would be tantamount to "treason" for those who wring their hands worried about currying favor with a small group of people who protest/blog/criticize the MPD at every turn. The "perpetually offended" of Madison who use their small but vocal numbers to dictate agendas has an incredible grip on this City... but no one dares to raise a voice lest they be marginalized in the PC world of Madison....)...Then, at the meeting, Baldeh said he felt unsafe because the Chief of Police had his gun.
To the Common Council: You are being watched. And be on notice: this is a pre-emptive first strike from me to you. I am going to push back hard when MPD is constantly used as a political punching bag and you are nowhere to be found....
At my age and at this stage of a sun setting career, I am not checking my polling numbers. I am doing my job and trying to live up to my credo to "GSD!' (Get "Stuff" Done)!
ADDED: I transcribed Baldeh's statement myself, from the video (beginning at 4:59:30):
So, I, first of all, just want to say that for my one year and a couple of months I have been in this council, this is the first time I've seen it so tense. And so this is the first time, actually, I've seen the police chief behave in a way that, in my opinion, I felt kind of not feeling comfortable with him sitting behind me with a gun....ALSO: At 5:13:45, we hear Alderwoman Rebecca Kemble questioning Koval about his use of the phrase "pre-emptive first strike":
I have the utmost respect for the police chief.... But the behavior of the chief tonight, honestly, is unimaginable. I was totally afraid for him to be behind me with a gun. I have said to some of my colleagues, if... we have to question him, then we better ask him to hand in the gun until when we are done.
When you tell an elected body you are doing a "pre-emptive first strike" against us... I'm just asking you to really think about how that felt to us, when some of us are out there promoting and supporting the work of your department and you're using this military language as if we're your enemies.Koval's response is that he's familiar with the way the council meetings go, with the members allowed to make their "cut-and-run comments" and he has no opportunity to respond: "I'm tired of always being on the recipient end, without any sense of cover or timely rebuttal."
Kemble responds: "You are the guys with guns, and it's up to us to interpret" what pre-emptive first strike means. And: "Quite frankly, in this era of Trump, that's chilling."
पोस्ट्स
७० टिप्पण्या:
Anything can be worded in a more sinister way. Consider the statement "a man with a gun shoved an old lady while people on the street laughed." Sounds sinister! But if that man with a gun was a police officer with his gun holstered, and his "shove" was pushing the old lady out of the way of a streetcar, and the people on the street laughing were actually laughing at something else (like say a nearby street performer) then not so sinister.
I bet Baldeh wouldn't mind a huge sign in the front yard advising that the house contains no firearms and they, in fact, openly oppose them.
Madison needs to be put under direct state control. Obviously the people of Madison are too stupid for self governance.
Anything can be worded in a more sinister way. Consider the statement "a man with a gun shoved an old lady while people on the street laughed." Sounds sinister! But if that man with a gun was a police officer with his gun holstered, and his "shove" was pushing the old lady out of the way of a streetcar, and the people on the street laughing were actually laughing at something else (like say a nearby street performer) then not so sinister.
That was a Buckley line. You cannot claim moral equivalency in tossing old women into the path of a train and tossing old women out of the way of cars as being equally bad because you're tossing old women around.
These people live in their perfect little neighborhoods where they face no risks. An armed invasion would teach them valuable lessons on reality.
It's quite possible that Police Chief Mike Koval would use his gun to shoot Alderman Samba Baldeh during a city council meeeting.
After all, Koval is a White police officer and Baldeh is an uppity Black in racist Madison, Wisconsin.
President Obama has had only seven years to heal our country's racial resentments, and that has not been enough time to make any progress at all. In fact, sometimes it seems that the racial resentments have become even worse.
There is little Common Sense on the City Council.
The onus of change is thrown on the Police and the Taxpayers rather than on group(s) that should self-police. This is what comes of cradle-to-grave coddling of people. If you are not self-reliant, of course you're going to demand that the Government fix everything that's wrong.
Madison politicians sound very much like Berkeley politicians and just as stupid.
So this Chief of Police is now the epitome of a need for a Trigger Warning of coming shoot outs in wild west Madison.
PC Fantasy is a many splendored thing.
For those who've never gone hunting or to a range to shoot, I can understand how guns might scare them. All they hear are how guns are 'responsible' for the hundreds of inner city shootings each weekend and assume anyone with a gun simply wants to shoot people with them.
Wouldn't it be interesting for those fearful folks, who insist on all sorts of 'training' of insensitive people to actually be made to spend time with people who merely like to target shoot or deer/pheasant hunt? Then again, I guess, only those who are enlightened progressives have the right ideas and they simply want guns out of everyone's hands......even the police.
We give the good guys the guns.
Alderman Sambo Baldeh: he did not feel safe with Koval sitting behind him during the meeting with a gun.
Then he should go to a Safe Space without white people, either before or after meeting with the gun.
Your city is run by buffoons and idiots. You should be embarrassed.
Maybe if your Aldermen of Color showed some common sense respect for the police, rather than modelling that addled bullshit, there wouldn't be a "sensitivity" problem.
There,fixed it for you. Can I have $350,000?
I have always been careful with policemen, because they have guns. If you get out of your car when they pull you over, they will pull out their guns. Don't mess with police. I imagine I learned this from my parents.
It's not a good idea to tell them that they make you nervous. Unless you're an alderman and think you can bully them.
Liberals and/or Progressives are the most rational considerate and well-grounded people you will find. They also believe that SUVs are destroying the planet with no human interaction at all and that guns can spontaneously leap out of a hiding place and threaten their lives. Some also sacrifice virgins to Cthulu but only in the most enlightened and elite sort of way.
"Alderman Samba Baldeh, 17th District, said that "based on the chief’s comments, he did not feel safe with Koval sitting behind him during the meeting with a gun.""
What a maroon.
Remember when Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown were sitting in that city council meeting when all of a sudden the white cop's gun...?
I don't feel safe knowing that Madison has a city council. After all, city governments are responsible for incidents of all manner of evil.
Alderman Samba Baldeh is either a fool if he truly felt unsafe, or an ass if he did not.
His first name is "Samba"? That's a joke isn't it?
That said, it seems like the Madison Wisconsin and Berkeley California city councils are interchangeable. There's something about university towns that produces hilarity (of a depressing sort) on their city councils. Madison's city council--or at least some part of it-- may want to declare the Madison police department a "gun free zone". Let 'em take on criminals with their bare hands, and maybe a set of brass knuckles. On a brighter note, Berkeley is a nuclear free zone, and has its own foreign policy.
"Ald. Mark Clear, 19th District, said Koval’s comments were “very hurtful” and riled up the public. Other council members were also critical and hurt by the post, drawing some to tears."
Ald. Samba Baldeh, 17th District, said based on the chief’s comments, he did not feel safe with Koval sitting behind him during the meeting with a gun.
Some days ya just can't help daydreaming about the cleansing fire. Or the scourge of God thundering across the prairie, smiting the insufferable candy-asses, sparing not the meddling cat-ladies, neither he nor she nor xir.
Not least to purify the land of journalists who write phrases like "[o]ther council members were also critical and hurt..."
Alder Baldeh said that because the police chief is expressing himself in an over emotional unhinged way.
I keep telling people, the SJW's are insane. They are strangers to reason. They are not interested in finding a solution to a public policy problems that addresses their concerns and your concerns. As Bing Crosby sang in Disney's wonderful "Ichabod Crane" adaptation, "You can't reason with a headless man."
Anglelyne said...
"Ald. Mark Clear, 19th District, said Koval’s comments were “very hurtful” and riled up the public. Other council members were also critical and hurt by the post, drawing some to tears."
I thought you were being sarcastic, 'til I followed the link.
First, they disarmed the babies, and they were good, even decent people. Then they tried to disarm law-abiding citizens. Now they want to disarm the police officers. Only the criminals should be armed.
Bless your little heart, Samba Baldeh.
You have the right to be free from nasty objects that upset your sensitive psyche. You have the right to be free from white men in positions of authority. And, of course, you have the right to be isolated from opinions that differ from your own.
Thank Gaea you live in Madison where you are safe from nonconforming entities.
n.n said: "First, they disarmed the babies, and they were good, even decent people. "
Did you mean "disarmed" or "dismembered"?
Alderman Baldeh should ask himself one simple question: Am I worth shooting?
The answer might calm his fears.
Why do all those names sound like these people just got off the boat?
The thing that gets me, is with so many supposedly educated people there, with money being shoveled at them from property taxes, why the hell are they so unhappy?
Then, at the meeting, Baldeh said he felt unsafe because the Chief of Police had his gun.
How can this be? I've been assured thousands of times campus crybullies have no influence on the broader culture.
Mike Koval for Governor.
Police Chief Mike Koval should have known that Madison was an insane asylum when he took the job. No sympathy here.
"Mike Koval for Governor."
A while back: ""I'm thinking of protest-voting, writing in the name Mike Koval."
Tommy Duncan:
In this context it is "disarmed", but generally it is dismembered, eviscerated, and harvested.
I can understand one wrong choice. We are imperfect beings. But not repetition and normalization. That is the definition of insanity. We should strive to be better, not worse than we are.
"A while back: ""I'm thinking of protest-voting, writing in the name Mike Koval." "
If we say it often enough, perhaps it will get some traction.
In cities with high crime rates and police deaths or beatings they should including training as part of getting your license. Slow way down. Pull over into a spot you'd feel comfortable opening your door into traffic that sometimes goes by (meaning pull as far over to the right as you can leaving room for someone to walk up on your, after you turn off the engine put both hands high on the wheel at 10 to noon and 10 after noon, grip tightly and wait for officer to instruct you on what to do next. Tell your passengers to do the equivalent and if there's no backrest to grab put their hands on their heads. don't disobey any request and do it slow. Don't assume what he meant but ask him to explain again or say I didn't hear you. If you're in Russia make sure your inside the car camera recorder is on, where it normally is on continuously before you stop, else if in the U.S. do the same anyway. Don't have the camera in obvious view save if it's looking forward. Put an insurance company sticker on it. In all cases no sudden moves. Until civil society returns and law enforcement deaths are about the same as in Japan. 2 at the peak across an entire year. Mostly by being pushed in front of a train. And only then after 5 years of civil behavior until the fear is gone.
"But it's America! we have rights! Yes you do, so do they, not to be in fear of their lives or the lives of their families if they are killed of which more are being killed than ever."
Good luck, we don't have these problems in my crater, we're like japan, except we can read other's thoughts. No privacy here. Will be able to do the same on your planet after the next biological or technical revolution.
Police Chief Mike Koval: I will have you know, Alderman Baldeh, that my officers are trained professionals. A guy like you is safe in my town 364 days each year!
Alderman Baldeh: What happened to 365 days year?
Police Chief Mike Koval: We call that one 'The Night of the Bullets.'
Bob Boyd @6/8/16, 10:21 AM:
Ha, good one.
It is a problem for leftist liberals to realize when NOT to use their demonization and othering of their opposition, because really they have nothing else to use. No use of any facts, no ability to make rational arguments and no accountability, that's today's left.
Police Chief Mike Koval should have known that Madison was an insane asylum...
Which is likely why he moved out of the city over 20 years ago.
"Samba" means lion in some language; probably Swahili.
The conclusion of the proposed $350,000 study can be guaranteed to call for a DoJ intervention and a multi-million dollar program to teach the Madison police racial "sensitivity."
Michael K: "Madison politicians sound very much like Berkeley politicians and just as stupid." Same etiology, same clinical presentation. Nothing to be done. Let the burning begin.
aritai said: "In cities with high crime rates and police deaths or beatings they should including training as part of getting your license…"
This is excellent advice. I wish we didn't need it, but there it is. It's not good enough to tell your kids, "Don't be stupid" and "Be respectful." They need to know specific behaviors to adopt and avoid. Even if they only understand the basic protocol that LEOs will adopt to acquire and maintain control of an encounter with the public (voice, then force, then perhaps lethal force), it will save lives and, equally important, a lot of heartburn and stress for everyone.
Well, nearly everyone: there's not much you can do with the Michael Browns out there. They are stress makers, the rest of us are stress takers...
The Samba is a dance.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUe_Pi8NfT4
Hagar said...
"Samba" means lion in some language; probably Swahili.
Simba is Swahili for Lion.
Samba is a Brazilian dance with Africa roots
PS: The Simba Rebellion took place in the Congo 1964-65. The leaders were Communist. The followers just savages (witch doctors, magic protections, cannibalism, etc)
The Drill SGT: "…Simba Rebellion…magic protections…"
Didn't they believe they were able to shrug off bullets?
Not a very successful approach.
"Madison is 30 square miles surrounded by reality." -- Lee Dreyfus, 1978
There's an old joke about a human's organs getting into an argument about which was more important. The brain insisted that the rest of the organs couldn't possibly survive without it, but other organs shot back that plenty of organisms lived just fine without a brain. The heart chimed in that it was the most important organ, because without blood being circulated, the body would die. And on and on the arguments went, until one day the bowels became so depressed from having to listen to the constant bickering that it just shut down. Soon enough, the other organs concluded that the bowels were the most important organ in the body.
I propose a fairly simple experiment. Instead of spending $350,000 on this phony baloney study, how about we stop policing Madison's "communities of color" and save $350,000 in gas, administration, and jail costs. Then we can stand back and see how well those "communities of color" fair without all of those racist cops coming in and beating and shooting them with impunity. I'm pretty sure a clear pattern would emerge within a week, if not a month.
A certain demographic that makes up only about 12% of the population is responsible for committing over half of the violent crime in this country. Think about that. If this demographic were repatriated, our violent crime rate would be halved. To insist that this demographic is being singled out for prosecution of violent crime, while all other demographics are allowed to commit violent crime without notice or prosecution, is to engage in insanity.
Michael the Magnificent: "...I propose a fairly simple experiment…." I believe your experiment is already underway, although maybe not yet in Madison WI. It's called the "Ferguson Effect" and it consists in the very rational (although probably not often officially acknowledged) pullback in LEO presence/engagement with certain communities where another Michael Brown may be trying to make a name for himself.
Thus we see a skyrocketing murder and shooting rate in Chicago; but, strangely, only in certain communities. Maybe residents in other communities don't have firearms. Or maybe they just obey the law.
The insanity is playing itself out as we write. Even the New York Times is starting to notice.
Now now everyone, let's think deeply. As the Professor reminded us when the topic was university students who expressed that they felt like their peers were racists, the issue here is not whether the Alderman's expressed belief is rational, supported by evidence, or in any way sensible, the issue is that he FEELS that way. We must address how he FEELS and do whatever is necessary to prevent him from FEELING bad or in any way that he might find TRAUMATIC. Mental health is important.
Someone observed that most arguments the Left uses against personal firearm ownership seem to be reactions from their psychological projection...and that framework seems to work in most cases.
The Alderman apparently feels unsafe because he believes that someone who holds a contrary opinion/dislikes him or his actions and is armed may just straight up murder him (in cold blood, in a city council meeting). That belief/feeling sounds silly to most of us, but if you assume that the Alderman feels like if HE had a gun HE would use it to murder people he disagreed with...then his feeling at least has some internal logic. Nevermind that the feeling is still ridiculous--it tells us a lot about the Alderman's mind/pysche.
The Left frequently makes arguments that boil down to "I, a Lefty person, can't be trusted to possess or carry a firearm (I might at any moment use it to murder someone or be so unsafe with it that people would be harmed), and since that's true YOU can't be trusted with a firearm, either."
Telling, really.
This isn't surprising.
The entire proglodyte project is built on the assumption that my paranoid delusions are your responsibility to accomodate.
I really resent purportedly literate people using the word "inference" when they mean "implication."
I say Samba,You say Simba. Sorry about that. I have a nasty sinus infection and am not functioning well this week.
I'm thinking it might be more to the point to do a review on the culture and educational system that leads a city council member to considers armed police to be clear and present danger, let alone making such proclamation with the policeman sitting behind him.
Unknown said...
I'm thinking it might be more to the point to do a review on the culture and educational system that leads a city council member to considers armed police to be clear and present danger, let alone making such proclamation with the policeman sitting behind him.
Rrrrrrrracist! Ugly.
Samba would have no reluctance accepting a ride in Ted Kennedy's Oldsmobile, I bet.
Me? I'd feel a whole lot safer with the Police Chief at the wheel.
I wonder what the pre-determined outcome of the investigation / report is supposed to be?
I'd bet for $350,000, there's been some hints as to what the City Council wants "found".
Dear Alderman Samba Baldeh (17th District),
If you and your constituents consider armed policePERSONS to be a threat to your safety, then please instruct ALL of your constituents to refrain from calling 911, regardless of how dire the circumstances.
If no one in your district calls 911, the cops will be too busy handling calls for service in other areas of Madison to do anything more than pass through your district to get from one neighboring district to another.
Considering that some of your constituents may not remember your instructions to NOT call 911, perhaps you should propose to the Madison City Counsel that the MPD be instructed to not accept 911 calls for service within your district, and put it to a vote.
Problem solved. You are welcome.
"perhaps you should propose to the Madison City Counsel that the MPD be instructed to not accept 911 calls for service within your district, and put it to a vote."
Excellent suggestion. The other thing is that blacks also hate black cops, maybe even more than white ones.
The term Race Traitor comes to mind. Along with Uncle Tom
>>The other thing is that blacks also hate black cops, maybe even more than white ones.
That was not my experience, but it's been a while so things may have changed...
Perhaps she would feel more secure with "one of the Boyz" or an Islamist sitting behind her.
She is fortunate that she lives in Madison---A city with a good supply of psychiatrists.
It's not Trump that is Pro-choice. He has not executed progressive wars, opportunistic regime changes, anti-native policies, selective-child (and Planned Parenthood), [class] diversity schemes, selective exclusion, and armed cartels here, there, everywhere. Kemble is displacing the legacy of Obama, Clinton, and company to someone who is not even a politician or a bureaucrat.
Sounds like the Chief has had enough and is not going to take it anymore. We are entering an era of plain talk. I don't think it's going to get the Chief anywhere but fired but good for him.
Also from the Chief's blog:
" On the same week that you used the annual submission of the MPD overtime report to open the door to MPD bashing, not one of you said or did anything to recognize our officers during local police week activities! No resolutions, no proclamations, not a word. I thought that I had your attention last year when your silence was deafening . . .apparently not."
David,
Thank you for your 7:13 comment. I try to refrain from commenting when a thread or comment has reached a certain age, but the Chief's comment you quoted really got to me. What incredible small minded idiots the Madison City Council must be. They don't even have the sense to pretend they care for their city's employees/defenders. What was the vote? 19 to 1? I'd guess a vote of favorite musical would also be 19 to 1 for Les Miserables. What asinine romantic poseurs. They must all imagine themselves at the tennis courts of Paris circa 1789. (Of course, that was before the guillotine held sway). And I'm sure everyone they know tells them that they're fighting the good fight sticking it to "the man." Because insulting and lecturing your employees is the best way to get them on board with your agenda. Hell, hectoring would be an improvement.
If Baldeh were actually afraid of Koval and his gun, he would have been too afraid to be that outrageously disrespectful. He needs to be removed from the council.
Your Madison City Council is made up of leftists wimps who are afraid of their own shadow.
Pitiful. They make the Harvard crybabies look good. Amazed he didn't move to have a 'safe space zone' declared.
Beginning to think we do need a REAL depression just to make everyone grow up.
In this era of Trump! For fuck's sake.
Remember all those people Trump shot?
Remember all those people Trump supporters shot?
What the hell is wrong with you people on the Left...are you really this delusional?!
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