MEANWHILE: In Wisconsin, anti-Trump disorder rages on:
Six protesters were arrested and could face trespassing, disorderly conduct and obstructing an officer charges after dozens initially entered the Holiday Inn Express on Monday evening as part of an anti-Donald Trump protest.Trump is speaking at the hotel at 4 p.m. today, and the protesters attempted to occupy the place at 6:30 p.m. last night. It seems as though part of the "professional" tactic is to intimidate any private business that might want to rent a venue to the Trump campaign.
Janesville Police Sgt. Mike Blaser said police gave the protesters several opportunities to move out of the building without being arrested but they refused. “I think tonight is just an indication in a smaller scale of what we might see tomorrow,” Blaser said. “We've been planning for several days and we will have assets on the ground to help us manage whatever size crowd we do get here tomorrow.”...
The six protesters arrested would not identify themselves to police before booking, Blaser said. They had joined hands inside of PVC piping and may have also been handcuffed inside the piping, he said.
The protesters used “professional” tactics, including having their own medic on scene, he said. They were members of the Showing Up for Racial Justice and Groundwork Madison groups. The protesters entered the building at 6:30 p.m. Rock County sheriff's deputies were helping Janesville police separate them at about 9:30 p.m.
Melissa Sargent, a Democratic representative to the state Assembly from the Madison area, was among those inside. “We're here to call on the Holiday Inn to take a stand against hate,” Sargent said....All the violence is on the other side. The protesters cite death threats they've received and predict some Hitler-like future, so strong tactics are justified.
Kristen Brock-Petroshius of Madison, a member of Standing Up for Racial Justice, said the group has been working with the local organizers of the anti-Trump demonstration, set for Tuesday outside the Janesville Conference Center, a part of the hotel. Brock-Petroshius said local organizers have received death threats, and Monday's protest was an effort to avoid any bloodshed that might be caused by Trump supporters....
“A lot of us think, … if this was the beginning of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, how many of us would sit by the sidelines and do nothing?” Brock-Petroshius said. 'If we can prevent the violence he is inciting from taking hold and become stronger in these coming months, then we've done our job.”
The owners of the Holiday Inn Express and Janesville Conference Center do not plan to cancel Trump's appearance Tuesday, as some protesters have called for.There's no
Love will win / no room for hate -> proud to stand against Trump in #WIsconsin pic.twitter.com/ENEWJXSpND— Rep. Melissa Sargent (@RepSargent) March 29, 2016
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From the photo it is his left arm grabbing her left arm. The police report says his right arm grabs her left arm. Jupiter Florida is where Tiger Woods lives. Not exactly a hot bed of crime there
This photo shows him reaching his left arm towards her, but not reaching her, and she has both hands in front, apparently texting.
They are going to need something better than this to tie her bruises to Lewandoski.
"Jupiter Florida is where Tiger Woods lives."
Elin Nordegren — lucky for her she wasn't charged with battery and attempted murder.
The story doesn't need to be about the battery. The story can very rightly be about Trump's own reaction in the immediate aftermath of the story. He said that he "heard that nothing happened." It was, in Trump's opinion, "made up." He said about it, "I think that's what happened [that it was "made up]."
Video, of Trump on that point:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/03/11/donald-trump-michelle-fields-breitbart-made-it-up-sot.cnn
As well, Corey Lewandowski went to social media to say that he didn't know Michelle Fields, had never met her and never touched her.
I don't care if Lewandowski gets jail time or a fine or even a conviction. The story has gone beyond that. I don't care about Corey Lewandowski; I care about denying Trump the nomination.
She strikes me as a cry bully and I predict the charges get dismissed.
Watching the video, nothing seems to happen to her. Grabbing an arm is assault? It lasts a few moments and she appears fine at the end of it.
She needs her safe space. Also, if I were a candidate, or anybody famous that gets covered by Reporters, I'd never give her credentials. Who wants an SJW like that in their midst?
Good, it's about time the violence (and inciting of violence) by Trump's campaign is addressed. What the Trump campaign did to her isn't surprising. Demonizing the victim is par for the course, especially a female, by misogynists in the Trump camp. What Breitbart did to one of their own reporters is shameful.
Police provide new video showing him grabbing her.
Blogger Chuck said...
The story doesn't need to be about the battery.
Of course not. There's no there there, as they say.
So, it has to be about the response t the story, rather than the story itself.
When she quit Breitbart over this, Breitbart got lucky and dodged a bullet.
Meade said...
"Jupiter Florida is where Tiger Woods lives."
Elin Nordegren — lucky for her she wasn't charged with battery and attempted murder.
3/29/16, 11:34 AM
That was Windermere (neighboring Orlando); they have their own semi-private police force, and actually Laurence, there are a few questions about how the Windermere Police handled that. Remember?
Chuck, when you have Amanda on your team, you may want to rethink your position.
eric wrote:
Watching the video, nothing seems to happen to her. Grabbing an arm is assault? It lasts a few moments and she appears fine at the end of it.
She needs her safe space. Also, if I were a candidate, or anybody famous that gets covered by Reporters, I'd never give her credentials. Who wants an SJW like that in their midst?
Well, in fact it was Trump that turned this into an issue. She initially did not want to make it a big deal, until they essentially called her a liar and refused to apologize. If he had simply said "i didnt' realize i had pulled your arm that hard" it woudl have been the end of it. Trump and his followers turned it into an issue
in the age of Obama every damn liberal is a community organizer. What is going on on the left is unbelievable.
Suck on this one, eric. Just more video of Trump lying. That's the thing. I expect that Corey will take it to trial, and that a trial date won't happen until after the Convention. (Which I expect will be the end of the Trump Campaign.) But that Trump will be dogged by this until after Wisconsin.
charged with battery
I'm not going to say anything.
"Six protesters were arrested and could face trespassing, disorderly conduct and obstructing an officer charges" but they probably won't.
Yet the protesters lose public opinion, as all but rabid lefties understand that the principle of free speech must trump dislike for Trump.
They had joined hands inside of PVC piping and may have also been handcuffed inside the piping, he said.
Ha! That's what the BLM protesters did outside Lenox & Phipps Malls in Atlanta last Christmas--made me very late that afternoon.
Well, in fact it was Trump that turned this into an issue. She initially did not want to make it a big deal, until they essentially called her a liar and refused to apologize. If he had simply said "i didnt' realize i had pulled your arm that hard" it woudl have been the end of it. Trump and his followers turned it into an issue
If you believe this, then I've some bridges to sell you.
I realize that's their story and they are sticking to it, but it's hogwash. Her boyfriend was all over twitter blowing this thing up right after it happened. So was Ben Shapiro and several others, all white knighting for her while she sat back and said, oh, let's not make the story about me.
Really, an apology would have shut her up? Oh hell no. The apology, as Trump has learned and Republicans never seem to figure out is the blood in the water the sharks smell.
This arrest plays right into Trump's hand.
This is an example of how NOT to do things. The reporter said all she wanted was an apology. Instead, Lewandowski slimed her. She felt the need file a complaint with the police department to defend herself from the charge she was a loon.
Character really does matter. In this and 1,000 other instances, Trump and his staff don't appear to have much. As has been said many times, if they had just apologized rather than calling Fields delusional, if Trump's fans hadn't hadn't taunted her to "press charges" to prove it happened, this would have been a non-story.
"Chuck, when you have Amanda on your team, you may want to rethink your position."
Hey, Trump is a Uniter :-)
Trump was down most recently in the polls. All this fresh anti-Trump activity should be enough to reverse the decline and put the Donald back on top.
A question for those who compare Trump to Hitler: why do you think Obama's Economy is the same as Germany's in the 1920s.
Blogger Chuck said...
Suck on this one, eric.
I seriously didn't need that visual of you schlonging me. So crude and vulgar! Where are my feinting salts!?
This story is garbage and any Republican that gets on board with it is on the other side. Calling that battery is obscene. The crybullies are just as effectively ruining this country as the open borders.
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out Chuck. We don't need people like you around. We want borders and we want freedom. The GOPe obviously wants neither.
Here's some pics of "Showing Up for Racial Justice"
The tubes look more like paper-mache than PVC, and they have water bottles laying around, implying they could use their hands.
Violence, violence everywhere. Trump is coming to town. He can't find enough women to beat up, so he has attacked the entire state of Wisconsin.
eric, yes in fact it woudl have. But Trump doesn't do apologies. And he campaign manager gets rough with people, and in this case a reporter working at Breitbart. One of the orgs most in the tank for Trump. It was an issue that could have been excused by simply offering up an apology. But, no, he slimed her and attacked her character. THat's why she brought the charges.
Trump said ""Perhaps she made the story up. I think that's what happened," "I believe I was in the middle of a lot of Secret Service agents, and they all said that they never saw anything. And these are very honorable guys, they're fantastic people, and there were a lot of them and nobody saw anything, and to the best of my knowledge there's no pictures."
Well there are pictures, and audio. and video. Yet, he said "SHE MADE THE STORY UP' once he says that she has a right to defend herself.
He should have simply said "I didn't realize any thing happened. AND I"M SORRY'
instapundit said "As I said before, a bought drink and an apology could have fixed this, but they doubled down and called her a liar instead. They chose poorly."
And that is exactly right. Don't pawn this off on Michelle. Trump should have simply acknowledged the issue and apologized for it. And it would have been a complete non issue. Michelle would not have pursued it in the slightest.
Trump had to act like an a hole though. And this is what happens to a holes.
jr565 said... Trump and his followers turned it into an issue
Well kinda, yeah, but if you're saying that being charged by battery or not hinges on how a politician reacts to reports of his staffer grabbing someone...I'm going to have to take that battery charge a little less seriously, you know?
"If you had apologized I wouldn't have filed charges, but you didn't so now you're going to have a criminal record forever and might face jail time." That doesn't sound alltogehter reasonable.
By the way, from the NYMag .gif it looks like 1.) He does grab her arm but 2.) she was in no way "thrown down" as the WashPo (I think) reported stated when narrating the audio he recorded that captured the event.
Anyway unwanted touching/grabbing = battery under the legal definition, sure, of course. What are the odds this very public charging leads to more charges in the future any time anyone bumps or jostles anyone else at an event like this.
Matter of fact, if I'm an Repub candidate, I tell my people to make sure they file charges against anyone and everyone with the Media any time they touch anyone from my campaign. Can't be too careful, you know.
Ah, 2016.
"This is an example of how NOT to do things. The reporter said all she wanted was an apology. Instead, Lewandowski slimed her. She felt the need file a complaint with the police department to defend herself from the charge she was a loon."
Part of the usual Trump pattern--making enemies constantly, even at Breitbart which was already in the Trump tank. A normal person in that position probably would have said "I'm sorry if I grabbed you roughly, I was trying to keep people from crowding the candidate" and then if the reporter went overboard with a police report they would have been the loon. Instead, it's deny and smear, because Team Trump can never do anything wrong. Meanwhile, this stuff fills media cycles and regular folk wonder why everything Trump involves violence, and we're not seeing any message uniting the Right or steering attacks towards the Dems.
How this nonsense leads to victory in November is anyone's guess.
Meade said...Elin Nordegren — lucky for her she wasn't charged with battery and attempted murder
She's a woman, Meade, the rules don't apply. I mean, it's de facto spousal abuse/domestic violence and in most places the cops have no choice but to charge the abuser (whether the partner wants to press charges or not), but when it's a woman...
Achilles said...
This story is garbage and any Republican that gets on board with it is on the other side. Calling that battery is obscene. The crybullies are just as effectively ruining this country as the open borders.
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out Chuck. We don't need people like you around. We want borders and we want freedom. The GOPe obviously wants neither.
It is the Republican Freakin' Party, Achilles! If you hate "the GOPe," get out and go get yourself a new party. We are busy, right now. We're trying to find a real Republican presidential candidate, who could actually win in November. A president, who can nominate another Nino Scalia -- or two, or even three -- to the Supreme Court. And we're trying to elect and re-elect Republican Senators to preserve a Senate majority, to confirm that nomination. That's serious work, unlike the Trump-fetishists' wanking.
#LoveLost. #SelectiveTreatment. Sargent is informed by her own peculiar religion and directed by her special interests.
As for the alleged assault, the independent observations cannot be reconciled.
That's a fantastic comment, Madison man.
Chuck said...I don't care if Lewandowski gets jail time or a fine or even a conviction. The story has gone beyond that. I don't care about Corey Lewandowski; I care about denying Trump the nomination.
And if a guy has to go to jail whether he's guilty or not to make that happen...?
That's pretty bad, Chuck.
I understand you care about "the story," but we're also talking about a matter of law here, man. "The story" didn't really need charges to be brought, you know?
When you say or imply "I'm willing to subvert justice/bend laws/disregard the truth of a criminal legal claim in order to prevent the guy I dislike from winning the nomination" you sound an awful lot like the kind of person you're warning us Trump is.
I think the Country Club Republicans are just going to have to join the Dems like their Country Club Dem friends have over the last 25 years. The only thing they disagree on is slightly higher taxes and maybe $1 change to the minimum wage.
If you're rich, it doesn't matter which party is in power.
MadisonMan: A question for those who compare Trump to Hitler: why do you think Obama's Economy is the same as Germany's in the 1920s.
I strongly suspect that any attempt to get these people to flesh out their analogy would reveal that they don't know any history beyond the fact that Hitler existed and was bad. Odds are they couldn't place him in the twentieth-century, let alone which decades of the twentieth century.
Pace Yeats, the stupidest are full of a passionate intensity:
Melissa Sargent, a Democratic representative to the state Assembly from the Madison area, was among those inside. “We're here to call on the Holiday Inn to take a stand against hate,” Sargent said....
“A lot of us think, … if this was the beginning of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, how many of us would sit by the sidelines and do nothing?” Brock-Petroshius said.
She needs her safe space. Also, if I were a candidate, or anybody famous that gets covered by Reporters, I'd never give her credentials. Who wants an SJW like that in their midst?
Umm, Michelle isn't an SJW by any means. And if she wasn't labeled a liar by Trump, I doubt a case would've been brought. But it's not like Corey doesn't have a track record of threatening behavior.
By the way, from the NYMag .gif it looks like 1.) He does grab her arm but 2.) she was in no way "thrown down" as the WashPo (I think) reported stated when narrating the audio he recorded that captured the event.
She never claimed to be thrown down. She never claimed to have left her feet.
So the story is, he grabbed her arm and it hurt so bad she had to call the police. But, if he would have just apologized, well, the "assault" wouldn't have been so bad and no police need to be called?
And this is the society you want to live in?
She is a cry bully.
Grabbed arm is assault, chalked graffiti is a war crime, separate bathrooms for the sexes is apartheid....we are not a serious country any more.
“A lot of us think, … if this was the beginning of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, how many of us would sit by the sidelines and do nothing?” Brock-Petroshius said.
Given how much the Left hates Jews...I doubt they'd have done much.
very near beer,
https://twitter.com/MacIverWisc/status/714859960182652928/video/1
well they'll make less of a mess, then madison,
Professor Althouse, you seem to have now successfully "buried the lede" by giving the Lewandowski-is-charged story one line in what you then tried to make into an "unruly anti-Trump protests" post.
Why combine them? Very seriously, I ask what is the connection between those things? Corey Lewandowski's trivial grab of Michelle Fields, followed by the non-trivial dissembling and evasion by Trump and Lewandowski together, is about lying and credibility. Not "protest" (your added tag).
I have no regard for the anti-Trump disruptors. Let's be clear about that. Michelle Fields is NOT an anti-Trump disruptor.
Trump's campaign manager is a moron and so is this reporter. Hopefully they both lose here.
Chuck,
Start your own blog. Quit whining that Althouse doesn't write what you want.
She never claimed to be thrown down. She never claimed to have left her feet.
This is how she described what happened.
Trump acknowledged the question, but before he could answer I was jolted backwards. Someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance. Nonetheless, I was shaken.
Now, watch the video. Not just the overhead, but the video showing her facial reactions (none) to what happened.
The above statement is an exaggeration at best, a complete fabrication at worst.
I'm surprised that Trump's fans would have a problem with Michelle Fields. Isn't she "punching back twice as hard"? And hasn't Trump himself shown us that with frivolous lawsuits he knows how to "play the game"? Sounds like she's taking a page from the Trump playbook.
I of course find frivolous claims of battery distasteful, but then I've never admired Trump's methods. It's just so odd to see Trump's fans being inconsistent about something!
So the story is, he grabbed her arm and it hurt so bad she had to call the police.
He grabbed her roughly. She asked for an apology. He and the candidate called her a liar and that she made it up. The guy who grabbed her has also made threatening comments towards Megyn Kelly.
The reporter was treated as a lying lunatic by Trump, Corey, and her former bosses who are currently trying to kill any legitimacy Breitbart has.
So, YOUR story is that this vengeful woman is just being cruel to old Corey who didn't do nuthin'.
You're actually going with this story?
It's not like his boss hasn't threatened lawsuits aplenty for nothing.
But, if he would have just apologized, well, the "assault" wouldn't have been so bad and no police need to be called?
"Not apologizing" and "slandering" somebody isn't the same thing. She's going to do what I have said rape victims should do --- don't just make empty allegations. Go to the police and prove your case.
He grabs her arm, pulls her back one step, keeps walking himself, and she stops (and holds her arm). He didn't
Look, it's illegal to touch someone without their consent, I think we all agree on that.
Watch the videos the Prof. shot of union & anti-Walker protests, though. There is a fair amount of bumping and touching. There are plenty of other examples. Is it the case that battery wasn't charged in any of those instances only because no one bothered to file charges?
If so should we cheer the decision to file charges here, given what that decision is likely to incentivize/bring about in the future?
Her article/statement on the incident says: Someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance. Nonetheless, I was shaken.
The Washington Post’s Ben Terris immediately remarked that it was Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who aggressively tried to pull me to the ground.
Now she doesn't say she was thrown to the ground, only that he tried to throw her down. The .gif certainly looks more like an arm hold/pull, but I guess there's no questioning someone's subjective experience. Anyway there was touching, and touching's illegal, so here we are.
eric said...
So the story is, he grabbed her arm and it hurt so bad she had to call the police. But, if he would have just apologized, well, the "assault" wouldn't have been so bad and no police need to be called?
And this is the society you want to live in?
She is a cry bully.
And Donald Trump is a lying piece of shit, eric. And I don't want to live in a society where he is President of the United States. Trump said he didn't think it happened. He thinks it was "made up." Liar. Nasty, asshole liar.
St. Rep. Melissa Sargent was among those inside interfering with Holiday Inn's business. Apparently, the only motels Wisconsin Democrat legislators are willing to support are those in Illinois.
Trump acknowledged the question, but before he could answer I was jolted backwards. Someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance. Nonetheless, I was shaken.
I'll go ahead and cut out the relevant part:
I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance. Nonetheless, I was shaken
So, again, where does she say she was thrown down? You made the claim and THEN doubled down on it and posted something that disproves it, so I hope you have more than you're presenting here.
Now, watch the video. Not just the overhead, but the video showing her facial reactions (none) to what happened.
The above statement is an exaggeration at best, a complete fabrication at worst.
So, again, good old Corey is just being treated mean by angry old Michelle, huh? Bruises on her arm were probably self-inflicted, weren't they?
THIS is the story you're going with.
Good lord, Trump supporters are oblivious.
Whoever takes this allegation seriously reveals themselves as totally unserious. Video from every angle and yet still they writhe and worm.
Janesville could use the boost to its local economy of Trump holding a rally there. Ryan now owes Trump one for helping out his hometown. Some nice OT for the cops as well.
Whoever takes this allegation seriously reveals themselves as totally unserious. Video from every angle and yet still they writhe and worm.
Anybody arguing she made it all up cannot possibly be taken seriously. But, hey, good old Corey is just unfortunate that all of the bitches hate him, right?
So, again, where does she say she was thrown down? You made the claim and THEN doubled down on it and posted something that disproves it, so I hope you have more than you're presenting here.
What claim did I make?
I am making the claim that nothing happened to her. That she is a cry bully. That she lied about what happened.
And the quote I posted and the videos prove my claim.
I think you're mixing me up with someone else.
The Trump campaign called her a liar and Trump supporters demanded she go to the police if it actually happened. She called their bluff. Now of course they're whining about how this isn't a tough country anymore if you can't go around yanking people's arms.
Then why. Eric, did you waste time to reply that I was correct?
You are turning me into a Never Trump just to watch his followers commit suicide, ala Jonestown.
Blogger Diamondhead said...
The Trump campaign called her a liar and Trump supporters demanded she go to the police if it actually happened. She called their bluff. Now of course they're whining about how this isn't a tough country anymore if you can't go around yanking people's arms.
I've conclusively demonstrated earlier in this very thread that she is a liar. Her description of what happened is a fabrication, or if you want to be generous, an exaggeration.
She is a writer. She ought to be careful with her words. Her description paints quite the picture. A picture the video doesn't at all support.
The justice system will decide the Lewandowski matter. The voting booth will decide the Trump matter.
Blogger damikesc said...
Then why. Eric, did you waste time to reply that I was correct?
You are turning me into a Never Trump just to watch his followers commit suicide, ala Jonestown.
3/29/16, 12:24 PM
First of all, I'm a Cruz "follower" if that's what we are calling it these days. But I'm also anti-anti Trump.
And I was clearing up what was said. Yes, you're correct, she never claimed to be thrown down. So what? She still lied.
A reporter can stick an arm out in someone's path without being touched. Got it. Look at her face: 'yeah, that was stupid'. Sexual currency.
It seems as though part of the "professional" tactic is to intimidate any private business that might want to rent a venue to the Trump campaign.
Legal question: if a group used this tactic against a protected class, say a racial minority, it'd be a civil rights violation and the Feds would step in and make arrests, right? If some group did their best to intimidate private business to stop giving services to Latinos, or gays, or some similar group I have to imaging the full weight of the government would come down and crush the offenders. Right?
When the target is "the other side" in a political contest, though, apparently those kinds of tactics are ok. Not just legally, of course, but morally. No Media outlets are speaking out against these tactics!
Is there any better illustration that the Left doesn't believe in the principles they mouth and the only important question to them is "Who, whom?"
I don't think she was lying. She's just had a cushy life and thinks she was almost yanked down to the floor because she has no context by which to judge physical confrontations. It probably felt to her like she was being yanked to the floor. Until you are actually yanked to the floor from behind a few times you don't know what it's like. She now knows what it's like to be grabbed from the arm from behind hard enough to stop your forward momentum. She probably never played soccer or basketball in her life.
She said as much in her interview with Meghan Kelly that it wasn't a huge deal UNTIL Trump and his guys started calling her a liar:
FIELDS: Well, I didn't want to file a criminal complaint. I never wanted to do that. The reason I did is because I was being accused of putting makeup on my arm to show that there were bruises. I needed a report to show people that this happened. And let me say, Corey in the beginning said he had never met me before, that I was delusional, that this did not happen. Now if you look at the campaign's approach and their spokesperson Katrina Pierson's approach, it's that well, it did happen, but it wasn't that hard. This is a campaign that continues to lie. I never wanted it to get this way. Those bruises will heal. My problem is the smearing of my name, my reputation. I have to fight back."
This is also reflective of Breitbart. Breitbart is referred to as Trumpbart. Michelle worked for Trumpbart, so was probably not particularly anti Trump at the time. But this made her anti Trump. Totally unnecessary.
Hope Hicks then doubled down on the suggestion that Fields LIED by tweeting " The accusation, which has only been made in the media and never addressed directly with the campaign, is entirely false. As one of the dozens of individuals present as Mr. Trump exited the press conference I did not witness any encounter. In addition to our staff, which had no knowledge of said situation, not a single camera or reporter of more than 100 in attendance captured the alleged incident.”
Clearly not accurate. She then doubled down on the character assassination and said "We leave to others whether this is a larger pattern of exaggerating incidents, but on multiple occasions she has been part of the news story as opposed to reporting it. Recall, she claims to have been beaten by police officer with a baton".
SURE she's leaving it to others. No, she is in fact stating it outright. The same way Trump says "the Enquirer is often right" to reinforce that Cruz did in fact have 5 affairs. Trump can't help but smear people.
This is made worse, because there is evidence that Corey admitted the day of that he did grab Michelle's arm because he didnt' realize she was a reporter from breitbart and was not antagonizing Trump, and was going to apologize. But then the campaign decided to go scorched earth, probably because they assumed there was no recording of incident.
From that side angle her head doesn't even move down/dip at all; I really don't think "he was trying to throw me down" is supportable.
Now, "he grabbed my arm and stopped me from walking/pulled me back a step" is pretty clear, and legally "he touched my arm" is enough. But let's all deal with the facts, at least here.
Brock-Petroshius said local organizers have received death threats,
Liar.
"I don't think she was lying. She's just had a cushy life and thinks she was almost yanked down to the floor because she has no context by which to judge physical confrontations. It probably felt to her like she was being yanked to the floor. Until you are actually yanked to the floor from behind a few times you don't know what it's like."
She never said she was "Yanked to the floor"
checkmate: #TrumpOrDemocrat :) that's right, i'll go out and vote for HRC if i don't get my way. waaaahhh.
And I was clearing up what was said. Yes, you're correct, she never claimed to be thrown down. So what? She still lied.
Again, good old Corey just has all of the bitches hating on em. He dindu nuffin.
"From that side angle her head doesn't even move down/dip at all; I really don't think "he was trying to throw me down" is supportable.
Now, "he grabbed my arm and stopped me from walking/pulled me back a step" is pretty clear, and legally "he touched my arm" is enough. But let's all deal with the facts, at least here."
There is an overhead shot that clearly shows he's behind her while she talks to Trump. He reaches his arm, through the crowd, and then grabs her and pulls her back.
Chuck: "And I don't want to live in a society where he is President of the United States."
Another day of "lifelong" republican Chuck adhering to his pledge to not criticize Hillary! as long as Trump is in the race.
You know, just like all the other "lifelong" republicans.
What's the dynamic here? Candidate entourage through press gauntlet. She tried something dumb; it didn't work. Happens all the time. You don't have a moral right to block people.
Amanda said...
Good, it's about time the violence (and inciting of violence) by Trump's campaign is addressed.
Campus activists have been inciting violence more dramatically than Trump for decades, and the current media is inciting it now with overblown rhetoric that Trump is Hitler. Amanda deems one of these a serious threat, but supports the other.
Some people are so in thrall to their political bias they can't even recognize it.
Unrelated: Ponytail yank
you've come a long way, baby
jr565 said...He reaches his arm, through the crowd, and then grabs her and pulls her back.
Oh I agree he grabs her arm and pulls her backwards/arrests her forward motion. He doesn't pull her DOWN though, that's what I'm saying. Her statement was that he pulled her hard and tried to pull her down (to the floor, one presumes) and the video doesn't show that.
Like I said, touching/pulling/grabbing is enough, so it's somewhat academic...but I don't think the evidence shows that he tried to "pull her down."
She wasn't "yanked down." She has no context for physical confrontations. No sports and cushy life = unintentional exaggerations. The campaign manager is d-bag and she is a cry baby and they both are going to be working in different fields soon.
Rick: " Amanda deems one of these a serious threat, but supports the other."
Amanda decries the Tea Party but supports islamist mass sexual assault.
So there is a consistency in her insane remarks.
Can the legal experts here talk about mens rea w/r/t this case? What has to be shown about his intention/mental state to get a conviction?
I don't understand why anyone is defending either of these two morons.
I'm anti-Trump but I would never condone any attempt to stop him (or anyone) from speaking. Violence and the stomping of free speech is for losers.
Drago said...
Chuck: "And I don't want to live in a society where he is President of the United States."
Another day of "lifelong" republican Chuck adhering to his pledge to not criticize Hillary! as long as Trump is in the race.
You know, just like all the other "lifelong" republicans.
STOP DOING THAT! Don't make me a Hillary supporter. Don't do that. I want to beat the Democrats in the fall. Trump is not that guy. I've never had a kind word for a Democratic candidate. Trump hatred does not equal support for Democrats. Get that through your poorly-educated skull. Even though He loves you, the poorly-educated.
You really need to go back, Drago, and check on what you were writing about this Corey Lewandowski story when it broke, around March 10.
Does this incident have anything to do with Huma Abedin not hugging someone?
mccullough, you seem to be a reasonable man. what's wrong with trump's campaign mgr?
By the way, another legal point maybe, but isn't it generally a bad idea to apologize in a situation where you might be charged with a crime for the action in question?
I mean, in a car accident I've heard you're not supposed to say "I'm sorry I hit you" since that can be used at a trial to show that you've admitted guilt. You're supposed to say "I'm sorry this happened to us, I'm glad you're ok" or something like that.
I don't know how applicable it is in this situation, but demanding an apology while holding the threat of pressing charges against someone else doesn't seem like a winning strategy...and following that up (after an apology isn't issued) doesn't strike me as particularly fair.
Now, of course, the smart thing for teh Trump folks to do would have been to say "we don't think we did anything wrong necessarily, but we were moving quickly and there was a lot of crowding/pressure, so if you were in any way hurt we're certainly sorry that happened and didn't mean to do so." MAYBE that would have defused the situation, but in any event it would have "played" better than a flat denial & attacking the accuser.
“A lot of us think, … if this was the beginning of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, how many of us would sit by the sidelines and do nothing?”
Time to reread The True Believer. Not to explain Trump, but the people who think he's embryonic Hitler.
Hatred is the most accessible and comprehensive of all unifying agents... Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a God, but never without belief in a devil.
But here's a more optimistic Eric Hoffer quote:
It is cheering to see that the rats are still around--the ship is not sinking.
be nice to me or i'll vote for hillary! waaahhh
mcullough wrote:
She wasn't "yanked down." She has no context for physical confrontations. No sports and cushy life = unintentional exaggerations. The campaign manager is d-bag and she is a cry baby and they both are going to be working in different fields soon.
you can be unintentionally rough with someone. If you simply said "i was trying to catch up with Trump and this person seemed to be in the way so i pulled her out of the way. I had no idea i had left bruises on her arm" no one woudl have held it against him. At worst he could be accused of being a bit rough, and I doubt she would have pressed charges. The fact that this went forward is all on Trump and his campaign. maybe they should rethink how they deal with issues like this.
I bet Sargent was real upset abut stuff said about Walker a few years back. Yw know, with her having no time for hate and all.
I guess I'm the only one commenting on the MEANWHILE. I was confused there for a moment.
"All she wanted was an apology!"
I swear, the people saying that must have crawled out from under a rock today. Did you miss the thousand previous times an apology only emboldened the professional victims that think they own our country these days?
Since when does apologizing EVER satisfy the perpetually victimized? It's nothing but blood in the water. Shapiro and this reporter clearly had an axe to grind. Trump isn't going to play that game. He's loyal to his people. Once upon a time, THAT would have been considered presidential.
But in this modern PC era, 'presidential' is hurrying up to kiss ass whenever some snowflake cries grievance.
Oh, and forget the "she's not an SJW, she's conservative!" line too. This election and the disgraceful behavior of both sides of the establishment, along with Republican lifers like Chuck, have shown us quite clearly where the divide is.
Amazing how happy Chuck is to see lawfare when it's used on someone he hates. I thought Trump was the loose cannon? I guess it all goes back to "the ends justify the means cause he's Hitler", basically. Not much different between dem and rep flunkies in the end.
Hoodlum doodlum wrote:
Now, of course, the smart thing for teh Trump folks to do would have been to say "we don't think we did anything wrong necessarily, but we were moving quickly and there was a lot of crowding/pressure, so if you were in any way hurt we're certainly sorry that happened and didn't mean to do so." MAYBE that would have defused the situation, but in any event it would have "played" better than a flat denial & attacking the accuser.
and if Michelle then decided to press charges anyway I'd have a totally different opinion of both her and the incident, and would be siding with Trump. But that's not how it happened.
“A lot of us think, … if this was the beginning of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, how many of us would sit by the sidelines and do nothing?” -- Brock-Petroshius
Yes, those lefty crybullies have learned from Hitler and others how to subvert democracy.
This is all crazy. It was crowded and people were pushing past each other. Just because assault can happen just through touching doesn't mean that every unsolicited (and maybe inadvertent) touch in a crowd is assault.
Both people's stories could be true - he may very well have never paid any attention to the lady he was pushing past.
HoodlumDoodlum said...
Can the legal experts here talk about mens rea w/r/t this case? What has to be shown about his intention/mental state to get a conviction?
3/29/16, 12:38 PM
Simple, first-year Crim Law stuff. Misdemeanor battery exists where the defendant intended to touch the victim without her permission. He didn't need to intend to bruise her; he intended to grab her in the way that he did in fact grab her. That's all the mens rea that was required.
Don't think that the detectives and the corporation counsel in Jupiter didn't think hard about this before they filed a charging document. They think that they've got a simple, straightforward case. A possible trial (which they'd rather avoid), or else a plea where Lewandowski pays a fine, does community service and a year of non-reporting probation that allows him to do whatever he wants to do. As undesirable as a trial is for the prosecution, they clearly feel that they couldn't NOT charge.
I find it amusing seeing Trump supporters whining that somebody is too litigious.
So hypothetically if an organization was against the Gay Pride Parade in Atlanta and they threatened violence/tried to shut down local hotels during that event that organization & its members would be charged with crimes, right? Probably up to and including RICO charges (interfering with interstate activities), right?
But we're all ok with groups using those tactics against Trump? That...that doesn't strike anyone else as a problem?
Blogger damikesc said...
And I was clearing up what was said. Yes, you're correct, she never claimed to be thrown down. So what? She still lied.
Again, good old Corey just has all of the bitches hating on em. He dindu nuffin.
I don't know about anyone hating on anyone, but you're right, he didn't do anything to her.
The fact you have seen the video and think that he did tells me you're an SJW. Which is fine, just don't come around me or mine, you'll need a safe space.
My daughter who is 15 gets clobbered ten times harder by her three little brothers and her 3 year old cousin/foster kid than Michelle got in that video.
In cases like this, I always apply the daughter test. How pissed would I be if that had happened to my daughter?
Not pissed at all. Except maybe I'd lecture my daughter on being tougher and not being a cry bully and I'd remind her that her brothers were always much rougher with her.
Then again, my daughter isn't an SJW and if someone pulled her arm in a crowd, she probably wouldn't give it a second thought after a few seconds.
This woman, Michelle, makes me question the wisdom of having women in the work place.
Thanks Chuck, that's what I assumed (w/r/t only needing to intend to touch w/o explicit permission) but I have no training in the law.
Tcom wrote:
Amazing how happy Chuck is to see lawfare when it's used on someone he hates. I thought Trump was the loose cannon? I guess it all goes back to "the ends justify the means cause he's Hitler", basically. Not much different between dem and rep flunkies in the end.
We can't say how Michelle would have reacted if Trumps camp had issued an apology.Since that's not how the incident played out. But you seem to assume that we should judge her based on how you think she might have acted if Trumps camp did issue the apology. And yet not judge Trumps camp based on how we know they smeared her.
Blogger MikeR said...
This is all crazy. It was crowded and people were pushing past each other. Just because assault can happen just through touching doesn't mean that every unsolicited (and maybe inadvertent) touch in a crowd is assault.
Both people's stories could be true - he may very well have never paid any attention to the lady he was pushing past.
I think it's pretty ty obvious he hadnt given her a second thought except as a person in the crwrm probably one of a hundred he touched during the event.
One wonders why the other 99 aren't writing g stories and demanding apologies.
On the one hand, Corey clearly grabbed her from that video and it's embarassing that Trump's campaign was so nasty to her.
On the other hand, all it looks like to me is that he was pushing his way through the crowd to stay close to his candidate and that he may have pulled one person back in the process to clear his way. Aggressive? Sure. Criminal? I don't see it.
MikeR said...
This is all crazy. It was crowded and people were pushing past each other. Just because assault can happen just through touching doesn't mean that every unsolicited (and maybe inadvertent) touch in a crowd is assault.
Both people's stories could be true - he may very well have never paid any attention to the lady he was pushing past.
3/29/16, 12:49 PM
The story that isn't true, is the Trump story; that it was "made up." (Lewandowski's public statement that it didn't happen doesn't help his case either.)
There's another thing to remember; in the video link I posted, Corey Lewandoski is standing next to Trump when Trump is talking to the reporter, saying that he [Trump] thinks that it was "made up." That won't help either.
Eric, ya caught me, I'm SJW. Totally. Man, I have posted here for years and that is a common refrain. Damikesc...SJW for realz.
Good for your daughter. I bet you've NEVER, not once in your life, been rougher than you thought you were with somebody you cared about. But lets say you did. I bet you told that person that nothing happened and they are just a liar. Seems like a totes rational thing to do.
But yeah, me an SJW. Thats a hoot.
Billy Madison's informed legal opinion.
We can't say how Michelle would have reacted if Trumps camp had issued an apology.Since that's not how the incident played out. But you seem to assume that we should judge her based on how you think she might have acted if Trumps camp did issue the apology. And yet not judge Trumps camp based on how we know they smeared her.
I disagree that they smeared her. She lied. The way she told the story, along with the Wash Post Reporter, it gave us all a mental image of something that didn't happen. If I were Cory, I'd have reacted the same way to her accusations. I wouldn't have remembered anything based on their fantasy storytelling of what transpired and called them liars.
It'd be like kissing a girl and later being told you raped her.
And to my surprise, a lot of Republicans now seem to agree, based on their hatred of Trump, that kissing is rape.
Ugh.
It would be useful to see the full tape, including the part where she is "thrown to the ground".
Chuck says: "And Donald Trump is a lying piece of shit, eric. And I don't want to live in a society where he is President of the United States. Trump said he didn't think it happened. He thinks it was "made up." Liar. Nasty, asshole liar."
Hey, I don't want to live in a country that is now being led by someone who has, shall we say, lied a bunch.
1) "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor."
1a)"If you like your insurance plan, you can keep it."
2) "I'm closing Gitmo."
3) "Premiums will go down by $2500.00" under Obamacare.
4) "I can't use executive action to increase illegal immigration."
Please make your list of Trump's alleged lies and let's compare. Your descent into trivia and childish thought is, well, expected, since you are a leftist who wants other people to support him.
5) "Lobbyists will not work in his White House."
6) "Health care negotiations will be broadcast on C-SPAN."
7) "Obamacare will be revenue neutral."
8) "I'll never raise taxes on the middle class."
9) "ISIS is the JV team of terrorists."
10) "Not one dime of Obamacare money will go to fund abortions."
11) "It was not my decision to pull troops from Iraq."
12) Benghazi was caused by an Internet video."
10)
eric, no you are lying. She never said she was thrown to the ground. She said someone grabbed her arm hard and yanked her back and she almost lost her footing but didnt. She didnt know it was Corey at first, but it was strong enough yank to leave bruises on her arm. Which fact is she lying about?
I swear, the people saying that must have crawled out from under a rock today. Did you miss the thousand previous times an apology only emboldened the professional victims that think they own our country these days?
Since when does apologizing EVER satisfy the perpetually victimized? It's nothing but blood in the water. Shapiro and this reporter clearly had an axe to grind. Trump isn't going to play that game. He's loyal to his people. Once upon a time, THAT would have been considered presidential.
It's helpful to play let's pretend when it suits your argument.
The facts are indisputable. She lied. She is caught in a lie. And the only way to make it look like it wasn't a lie is to adopt all the tactics of the SJWs.
"Eric, ya caught me, I'm SJW. Totally. Man, I have posted here for years and that is a common refrain. Damikesc...SJW for realz"
Oh my gosh this is amusing, we now have one conservative calling another conservative an "SJW", the wheels on the bus are comin' off, thank you Donald.
Dan hossey wrote:
It would be useful to see the full tape, including the part where she is "thrown to the ground".
where do you have her asserting she was thrown to the ground?
SCANDAL!
DISQUALIFICATION!
CONDUCT UNBECOMING A PRESIDENT!
BEING TOO POPULAR!
REFUSING DONOR CASH!
DEFEATING THE MEDIA PROPAGANDA STORM!
TALKING BACK TO WOMEN!
Trump has set off more coverage this week than 9/11 and The Iraq War combined.
mccullough said...
Chuck,
Start your own blog. Quit whining that Althouse doesn't write what you want.
3/29/16, 12:12 PM
lol.
I sent this (the general battery incident) story to Professor Althouse on March 10, and on March 11, I followed up with this email to her, with Re: line "The Corey Lewandowski/Michelle Fields story is not going down easy" in which I sent her the link of Trump denying any incident:
This is surreal video from NBC. Corey Lewandowski is standing next to Trump while this interview I going on.
It seems like something out of one of the more scurrilous boxing/ultimate fighting scandals.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-breitbart-reporter-michelle-fields-made-alleged-lewandowski-assault-n536451
The incident was witnessed by a Washington Post reporter; Lewandowski admitted it in a phone call he made to the Breitbart CEO, apparently hoping a phone call would smooth it over. Before he then went to Twitter, denying it.
And now Trump says he thinks it may be "made up."
Unreal
Oh my gosh this is amusing, we now have one conservative calling another conservative an "SJW", the wheels on the bus are comin' off, thank you Donald.
No joke. The only "Real conservative" is one who ignores that Donald isn't one.
It would be useful to see the full tape, including the part where she is "thrown to the ground".
Why are you lying here? I mean, Trumpists HATE lies, so why lie here?
jr565 said...
eric, no you are lying. She never said she was thrown to the ground. She said someone grabbed her arm hard and yanked her back and she almost lost her footing but didnt. She didnt know it was Corey at first, but it was strong enough yank to leave bruises on her arm. Which fact is she lying about?
3/29/16, 1:01 PM
I'm not going to call you a liar, Jr, because I like you, but, I've not uttered the words you're accusing me of. I quoted her directly. The picture she paints, as a writer, along with the picture painted by the Wash Post Reporter, of the event, when compared to the video, are complete lies.
The mental picture one gets from her description, which has been quite above, is not even remotely similar to what actually took place.
She lied.
She said on Breitbart: "Trump acknowledged the question, but before he could answer I was jolted backwards. Someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance. Nonetheless, I was shaken.
The Washington Post’s Ben Terris immediately remarked that it was Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who aggressively tried to pull me to the ground. I quickly turned around and saw Lewandowski and Trump exiting the building together. No apology. No explanation for why he did this."
If she is pulled in a downward direction, she might phrase it as "yank me down" as opposed to "yank me back" because the force she's feeling is a downward motion. Whether Corey pulled her down or back is a semantical argument at best. THe guestion is did he grab her arm and yank her? The answer, CLEARLY is yes.
Basil;
Let me assure you, your long post was a complete waste of your time, and it will not be a waste of my time. I do not propose to engage in any argument about Trump, in which somebody wants me to engage in any comparison to, or criticism of, Obama.
Obama isn't running, Basil. Don't waste my time.
You can, if you wish, argue that Hillary Clinton would be a "third term of Obama." I wouldn't even disagree. But that argument is wasted on me because I won't support any Democrat.
I am a REPUBLICAN!
If she is pulled in a downward direction, she might phrase it as "yank me down" as opposed to "yank me back" because the force she's feeling is a downward motion. Whether Corey pulled her down or back is a semantical argument at best. THe guestion is did he grab her arm and yank her? The answer, CLEARLY is yes.
That's fine. You're being generous to her view of events.
However, I don't see anything like she described. Or, to put it another way.
When I first read her description and WaPos, I had a mental picture. Don't we all? Isn't that the purpose of writing, to create mental pictures?
I saw her bent double at the waist from being yanked down. Arms flailing to gain balance, a recovery as she steps forward or backward to keep from being yanked down, and then a look of shock on her face as she recovers and is "shaken".
Then I see the video and I'm like, huh? That's nothing like the mental picture she created for me (along with her white knights) before the video came out.
Surely if I can see your generous view of her position, you can see how many of us are like, WTF? Get over yourself lady.
Hahahahaha, conservatives accusing other conservatives of being "liberals" because they don't agree with them on Trump, oh too rich. Pass the popcorn.
Great....a open democrat fascist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzRyxmL2aTY
Great. Will you pledge to support the party's candidate in the fall, or stay home if voters don't agree with your primary choice?
To Chuck's credit he has said before he will support Trump if he is the candidate.
Maybe the anti Trump conservatives will simply just stay home, ever think of that? No need to vote for the Dem nominee. If conservatives stayed home for Romney, just think what they'll do with Trump.
"I'm not going to call you a liar, Jr, because I like you, but, I've not uttered the words you're accusing me of. I quoted her directly. The picture she paints, as a writer, along with the picture painted by the Wash Post Reporter, of the event, when compared to the video, are complete lies."
THen I wont call you a liar either. I retract what I said. However, Michelle described being yanked in a downward direction by Corey. That happened. There is audio of the incident literally a second after it happened where she remarked how hard she got yanked. being yanked may be a subjective thing. You and i might assume its a non event, but if you were the one yanked it might seem much more violent. what was her reaction literally the moment it happened? That she was forcibly yanked.
Here is a transcript of the audio:
Fields: “Mr. Trump, you went after the late Scalia for affirmative action, do you -- are you still against affirmative action?"
Voice (allegedly Corey Lewandowski): “Excuse me, thank you.”
A few moments later (noise of the room can be heard)...
Terris: “You OK?"
Stopping for a second. So, we have Terris on tape recognizing that someething just happened. To the point where he asks her how she was.
Fields: “Holy sh*t."
Terris: “Yea he just threw you."
Again, this is Terris's interpretation of the event, not Michelle's. It was clearly hard enough where he characterizes it as "he just threw you". why would he make that characterization about the event that JUST HAPPENED if it didnt happen that way.
Fields: “I can’t believe he just did that that was so hard. Was that Corey?"
So, She doesn't yet know it was Corey. She just felt someone yank her.
Terris: “Yeah, like, what threat were you?"
So, he asks what threat were you. Why would he ask that if
Fields: "That was insane. You should have felt how hard he grabbed me. That's insane. I’ve never had anyone do that to me from a campaign."
Terris: “Can I put that in my story?"
Fields: “Yeah, go for it — that was really awful. That’s so unprofessional.”
So, at this point, she simply thinks what happened was unprofessional conduct. AND IT WAS.
Terris: “He really just almost threw you on the ground."
Interesting. So, its Terris that suggests he almost threw her to the ground. Because,thats probably how it happened. Or at least that's how it looked to Terris who was standing right there next to her.
Fields: “He literally went like this and was grabbing me down. "I don’t even want to do what he just did to me. Oh my God, that really spooked me that someone would do that."
Terris: “What threat were you?"
Fields: “Nothing. I was asking about affirmative action."
Terris: “And he probably knows you, right?"
Fields: “Yeah, I don’t understand. That looks horrible. You’re going after a Breitbart reporter, the people who are nicest to you?"
Suggesting that she is acknowledging that until that point, there is no reason to assume she was even antagonistic. Since as she acknowledges, Breitbart is the organization who is nicest to Trump.
That, intermingled with my commentary, is the transcript of the event immediately after it happened. It acknowledges that a) she was yanked hard enough where someone else wouldn characterize it as throwing her. I dont see how they would make up this story literally the second after it happened. So, it happened, the way she said it did.
And again, if this was the extent of it, it woudl be an example of unprofessional conduct where Corey shoved her harder than he probably assumed he had. And it could be glossed over if corey simply acknowledged the harm. Its not like he hauled off and punched her in the face. Such a yank could be explained away. Its the smearing her that causes this to become a bigger issue. because now she has to prove that, yes, Corey did in fact yank her. Just as the transcript shows.
Yeah, I do. I think there is a lot of emotion right now because of the primaries. Once that's over and we have a clear view of our choices, Republican and Democrat, a lot of people will come around.
The only story about Michelle Fields is the story about Michelle Fields, over and over and over and over. The Big Lie method works by repetition until the improbable assumes a Truth because it is repeated over and over and no one speaks back.
The utter glee on the face of reporterettes and other paid slanderers is the tell.
They are celebrating on a masterful parlay of the Heidi Cruz attack and the Michelle Fields attack to finally bring down The Donald.
She strikes me as a cry bully and I predict the charges get dismissed.
Watching the video, nothing seems to happen to her. Grabbing an arm is assault? It lasts a few moments and she appears fine at the end of it.
She needs her safe space. Also, if I were a candidate, or anybody famous that gets covered by Reporters, I'd never give her credentials. Who wants an SJW like that in their midst?
Sounds like a Clinton apologist circa 1997.
I was always told that a good journalist never becomes the story.
Anyway unwanted touching/grabbing = battery under the legal definition, sure, of course.
Not exactly. When a person goes into a crowded public place, she necessarily consents to all manner of bumps and jostling that are common to crowds. This would include someone extending their arm in order to get by.
Jinx, mad as hell.
You owe me a coke! (or I owe you...)
If you bruise easily,
perhaps you ought to find another, "safer" line of work?
Meanwhile, I've looked at the overhead video and the screen caps more than a dozen times. I do not see the accused putting a hand on the accuser at any point, much less pulling or yanking on her. What I do see is him moving in the same direction and then past her. I also see that she does not have any reaction to any alleged grab.
Jr,
Thanks for the retraction. And I've a different interpretation of events, and yes, I've heard the audio and seen the video.
The overhead view just released seems to me like WaPo can't see it. He is behind Cory and the Secret Service guy. I think he would have a clear view if it had been more violent, but grabbing her arm and stopping her forward motion would have been hard to see at his position. All he would see is something happened. But not the specifics, because it was so fast and so tame. Had she lost her balance and almost fell, arms cartwheeling or something, yeah, but based on the video, she has no such reaction. Her only reaction is to stop her forward progress.
Also, the audio demonstrates to me her other lie. Which is, she wouldn't make a big deal of this if she just got an apology. She says to the WaPo guy right away he can write a story about it.
About what?
Now, I've no doubt he is an SJW. I mean, just look at the guy. So to him, it was probably akin to attempted murder. And his story is also exaggerated, and he is a writer for a living. No excuse but to create a lie.
I can understand the position that Trumps team shouldn't have attacked her so vehemently afterward. This makes sense to me as a position I can respect. I disagree with it, but respect it.
But anyone claiming Corey did something wrong to her at the actual event, with that, I do disagree. Whole heartedly. There should be no crime. He did nothing worthy of wasting police time and resources.
If you want to be upset about this, focus on the response by Trumps team. Fine. But please don't go full SJW and claim something awful happened to her.
Anybody defending Lewandowski is a hypocrite. Y'all would have punched his lights out if this was done to your sister or mother. Regarding Amanda, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Blogger UNTRIBALIST said...
Anybody defending Lewandowski is a hypocrite. Y'all would have punched his lights out if this was done to your sister or mother. Regarding Amanda, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
That's just it. I've applied the "How would I react if this happened to my wife/daughter" and I must say, if they threw the fit Michelle threw, I'd be upset with them.
We have been in crowds. We have been to Disneyland and Disney world and other theme parks. Lots of jostling and pushing and pulling.
You don't write a story about it, demand an apology, and call the police.
The dude abides.
If the campaign manager didn't hit, you must acquit.
I took the Easter Triduum off from arguing and haven't had the motivation to return to the same. But, youse guys (and gals) are doing fine work!
When you description of what happened in 320-times longer than the half-second encounter, you may be laying it on a little thick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzRyxmL2aTY
"That's just it. I've applied the "How would I react if this happened to my wife/daughter" and I must say, if they threw the fit Michelle threw, I'd be upset with them."
Ah, I see. Trump files endless frivolous lawsuits, starts attention-whore wars with various celebs and basically anyone who is "not nice" to him, and that makes him a great fighter who "hits back twice as hard". Ms. Fields gets manhandled then smeared in the press, then files charges and that makes her a whiny baby.
Seems to me she's learned a lot of about Trump tactics from covering him.
Update, if no one has seen it yet:
Yes, he grabbed her
All over 'cept the cryin'
Darrell said...
When you description of what happened in 320-times longer than the half-second encounter, you may be laying it on a little thick.
This.
eric said...
Great. Will you pledge to support the party's candidate in the fall, or stay home if voters don't agree with your primary choice?
To Chuck's credit he has said before he will support Trump if he is the candidate.
3/29/16, 1:19 PM
I don't wish to put too fine a point on it, but I am always surprised how well people remember things that I write or even mention...
What I have said, is that I expect to vote for Trump, if Trump is the Republican nominee. I cannot imagine "supporting" him, but I have always said that Trump is the easy choice over a Democrat, if in fact that choice is the required, binary choice.
I might not vote for Trump only if things blow up, and there is another independent ticket to vote for (a ticket of, say, Mitt Romney and Scott Walker). I expect that won't happen. I also expect that Trump will not be the nominee.
So I am not much correcting you, eric. But this superfine point, on some remarkably unlikely scenarios, keeps getting more interesting in this crazy election year. In the end, there is indeed a good chance, you'd rightly note, that Trump will be the nominee, and I will hold my nose and vote for him.
I remember reading on Twitter immediately after this alleged "battery" Michelle Fields' boyfriend tweeting that she was just nearly pulled to the ground by Lewandowski. They were hyping in big. Early.
I do not buy that Fields never intended to make a big deal of it nor do I buy that an apology would have done anything but embolden her. What I saw of the alleged "battery" is not anything I wouldn't expect any reporter to have had to deal with in the press scrum. But she's a woman, so it's all different. What utter bullshit.
I am not apologizing for the alleged Lewandowski "battery", I just don't see it, and I think anyone who sees it, WANTS to see it. As for me, this is not the "battery" I would appreciate law enforcement or the court system spending their valuable time on.
Also: Meade is so right about Elin Nordegren. Not one press angle suggested that she tried to kill him. Which she did. All sympathy went to her. Of course she was entitled to go after his head with a golf club! OF COURSE.
Sheesh. I love equality!
There is video out now showing Fields grabbed Trump without his permission.
I'm guessing Chuck, Amanda and Co. are perfectly ok with battery chargea against her, right?
We would have to arrest half the country to be consistent on this nonsense. But that's the tell, isn't it? This has NOTHING to do with consistency. The prosecutor is a known Clintonista.
The power elite are going to run their double standard racket until they lose power. It's that simple.
And Amanda, it's not 'conservatives calling conservatives SJWs'. Conservatism is dead. It has conserved absolutely nothing.
Watching that video, if I took that to my local police station and told them I wanted to file a complaint for battery, they would have laughed and thrown me out of the station. Another abuse of our legal system.
Reporter looking to have her Kelly moment in the sun.
And the idea that you would "punch the lights out" of anybody who did that to your Mom or Sister, just stupid.
MikeR wrote:
"This is all crazy. It was crowded and people were pushing past each other. Just because assault can happen just through touching doesn't mean that every unsolicited (and maybe inadvertent) touch in a crowd is assault.
Both people's stories could be true - he may very well have never paid any attention to the lady he was pushing past."
and I agree. This is what should have happened. Clearly what you say is the excuse that should have been used. And it would be a total non story.
But what did they do instead? First they said "it never happened. You know how she lies."then they and people on the board say it may have happened but "she's a cry baby". So if we acknowledge that he could have indeed done her harm u intentionally why would he not just acknowledge that rather than say she's a lying crybaby?
"And Amanda.....Conservatism is dead. It has conserved absolutely nothing"
I agree!
Eric, if YOU step on someone else's foot its kind of arrogant of you to assume how much it hurts THEM. you were the one that stepped on the foot. If your answer to the charge is "stop complaining you crybaby" you're liable to get socked in the nose.
Meanwhile, in NCAA Basketball, Coach Mike Krzyzewski criticized an opposing player for showboating. No big deal. But when asked about it, Krzyzewski completely denied he did it. Video feed made it pretty clear he did. Now it is a big deal.
See how this works?
"There is video out now showing Fields grabbed Trump without his permission."
Really? Where?
'Do not dare to touch the hem of the Prophet's garment without his permission, you mere mortal!'
"UPDATE: Member of Trump's Secret Service detail confirms Fields touched Trump twice and was warned to stop, before Lewandowski intervened"
https://mobile.twitter.com/dmartosko/status/714884879691997189
Seeing Amanda and Chuck with egg on their face never gets old.
What I saw of the alleged "battery" is not anything I wouldn't expect any reporter to have had to deal with in the press scrum.
The very fact that there is a well-known term of "press scrum," which describes something akin to a rugby match, even if not so physical, but still with a good deal of pushing, itself is evidence of a reporter expecting and consenting to all sorts of physical contact in those situations.
Also: Meade is so right about Elin Nordegren. Not one press angle suggested that she tried to kill him. Which she did. All sympathy went to her. Of course she was entitled to go after his head with a golf club! OF COURSE.
Which is utter BS. The hidden reality of "domestic violence" is the frequency in which the wife/girlfriend initiates the violence and the man retaliates. I've always men shouldn't hit women. I don't support violence against women.
But it goes both ways. If you don't want to get hit, ladies, don't start beating on men (and if feminists REALLY want equality, they shouldn't demand punishment for a man who punches a woman back --- men will punch men back after an assault without much of a problem).
And there are sites where feminists will openly admit --- with no shame --- how often they beat their boyfriends/husbands with no real guilt. The guy will deal with it for a while because...well, what can they do?
But, EVENTUALLY, you will hit the breaking point. And then the woman will get hurt...and she'll call the cops and downplay the repeated provocations.
I'm guessing Chuck, Amanda and Co. are perfectly ok with battery chargea against her, right?
He's free to press charges. He's filed suits for less.
If Corey simply said "I didn't intend to do anything there", it'd have gone nowhere. If she pursued it further, she'd have very little support. But that isn't what happened. Good Old Corey said she lied and made it all up.
"and I agree. This is what should have happened. Clearly what you say is the excuse that should have been used. And it would be a total non story.
But what did they do instead? First they said "it never happened. You know how she lies."then they and people on the board say it may have happened but "she's a cry baby". So if we acknowledge that he could have indeed done her harm u intentionally why would he not just acknowledge that rather than say she's a lying crybaby?"
We're being given another window into how the Trump Administration would work. Constantly making crises where anyone else would have gotten past it with a quick apology, smearing people with obvious lies and digging in when the truth is revealed, making unnecessary foes--is this how America starts winning again? Good grief.
Anywhere else, this is a non-story--campaign aide grabs reporter a bit too rough, apologizes, story dies (and if the reporter tries to make a big deal out of it, only the reporter looks bad and sympathy for the campaign aide--most importantly, all of it beneath the dignity of the candidate). But no, not in Trump World. Always about the drama, the attention, the constant petty battles.
It occurs to me that between Trump and Clinton, Clinton would actually be the more drama-free candidate. That says something.
We're being given another window into how the Trump Administration would work. Constantly making crises where anyone else would have gotten past it with a quick apology, smearing people with obvious lies and digging in when the truth is revealed, making unnecessary foes--is this how America starts winning again? Good grief.
Agreed. This wasn't her claiming "misogyny hurt my arm" and demanding apologies. That would be a stupid thing to entertain. She is saying Corey did it. She didn't even claim he did it on purpose. She likely assumed it, but she never said he targeted her. Even an apology may have been unneeded. Just "I have no idea what happened and it was never my intent to do anything" kills the story dead and if she pursues it, then he can go off on her.
Anywhere else, this is a non-story--campaign aide grabs reporter a bit too rough, apologizes, story dies (and if the reporter tries to make a big deal out of it, only the reporter looks bad and sympathy for the campaign aide--most importantly, all of it beneath the dignity of the candidate). But no, not in Trump World. Always about the drama, the attention, the constant petty battles.
Up there with Trump bitching that Cruz wouldn't violate the law demanding a PAC that doesn't actually support Cruz pull an ad to justify Trump's Twitter account retweeting a bad picture of Ted's wife.
Trump is a bit of a whiny bitch.
Trump is now saying he may press charges against Michelle.
I hope he does although I don't think he will. The only way to stop this nonsense is to make them play by their own rules.
We can't grab you? Then you can't grab us.
Let him. Whiny bitch Trump has few qualms going to court over pathetic, perceived slights.
However, doesn't justify what Good Ole Corey did.
'Do not dare to touch the hem of the Prophet's garment without his permission, you mere mortal"
Yes, someone from the party of Hillary actually wrote that with no sense of irony.
The video (or really just a photo burst) released today is more damning than the earlier videos.
I suppose that is enough to charge someone, but I doubt anyone would try to making a case if a female grabbed a male reporter in a similar way.
Blogger damikesc said...
Let him. Whiny bitch Trump has few qualms going to court over pathetic, perceived slights.
However, doesn't justify what Good Ole Corey did.
What does he need to justify?
I understand you're a long time conservative. I'll accept your word for it. But the fact you're saying he needs to justify something here tells me you're on the wrong side here. The safe space side. The cry bully side. The SJW side.
Please reconsider. You can still dislike Trump afterward. I promise.
"Um. This IS a non story.
Not an important issue to be discussed in the presidential campaign."
Tell that to the MSM. They're going to be balls to the wall on this, because they have an agenda: Destroy Trump.
"and they wouldn't be had the trump campaign not called her a liar and a crybaby."
The boyfriend went on twitter instantly and started shitposting endlessly about the incident.
You have no clue who started it. Trump doesn't take bullshit, he finishes it. No apologies or crocodile tears for professional victims. We're done with that.
Amanda: "I agree!"
This made me laugh. Give it time. You'll be begging for your pantywaist conservative opposition later.
To recap: Fields touched Trump twice, was warned by Secret Service. She really ought to know about and respect Secret Service protection, shouldn't she?
But she's the victim, for being pulled away after refusing to listen. You really can't make this nonsense up.
The part I love the most? Trump certainly already knew about the statement from his SS agent before. He prefers to hold his cards until the opposition makes themselves look like fools, first. Gotta love it.
Eric, what rules are you saying she should live by. If someone in a crowd yanked trump by the arm his security guards would be beating th shit out of him at this point. Where did Michelle say it was ok to grab anyone by the arm forecibly.
I'm going to test your theory by tripping trump as he walks by. Then if he complains I'm first going to call him a liar. Then if it turns out there's video I'm going to say "stop whining you Lying bitch. What a crybaby. Aww, you poor little stubby fingers got bruised blocking your fall. You need to toughen up old man. Besides I'm going to sue you for hurting my foot when you tripped on it. You whiney bitch"
"Agreed. This wasn't her claiming "misogyny hurt my arm" and demanding apologies. That would be a stupid thing to entertain. She is saying Corey did it. She didn't even claim he did it on purpose. She likely assumed it, but she never said he targeted her. Even an apology may have been unneeded. Just "I have no idea what happened and it was never my intent to do anything" kills the story dead and if she pursues it, then he can go off on her."
It really escalated unnecessarily, but that's how it happens in Trump World. Remember this woman worked for Breitbart, one of the more pro-Trump media outlets--she wasn't out to get them--and it all started with a claim of "yeah I was grabbed roughly" and a simple apology or just an explanation that hey, this happens at these events when we try to corral crowds would have been the end of it. Lying about it and trying to make her look like a nut (and Trump himself getting in on the action, which should be beneath his dignity but then he has no dignity for anything to be beneath) and her publication taking sides made this into something it didn't need to be. If this were an isolated incident I'd chalk it up to "green campaign staff making snafu" but this sort of thing keeps happening. Trump loves feuds, they get him the attention he craves.
"Up there with Trump bitching that Cruz wouldn't violate the law demanding a PAC that doesn't actually support Cruz pull an ad to justify Trump's Twitter account retweeting a bad picture of Ted's wife."
In doing that Trump combines a rare cocktail of ignorance, pettiness and nastiness.
"I hope he does although I don't think he will. The only way to stop this nonsense is to make them play by their own rules."
You might want to go back a few exits, you missed the irony a ways back. Fields is playing by Trump's rules--escalate the conflict and bring the courts in as a way of "hitting back twice as hard". You should admire her!
"UPDATE: Member of Trump's Secret Service detail confirms Fields touched Trump twice and was warned to stop, before Lewandowski intervened"
Surrrrrre he did, LOL. How about a credible source?
By the way, mea culpa. I was wrong. This is what Michelle Fields wrote
Campaign managers aren’t supposed to try to forcefully throw reporters to the ground, no matter the circumstance.
So, this is where the "thrown to the ground" line is coming from. From Michelle Fields herself.
In the linked article about the Trump agitators, one of them claims that the 1st Amendment doesn't protect "hate speech". If only there were a constitutional law professor in Wisconsin to help rectify this leftist shibboleth.
why do leftists always think they represent "love"? They're so full of shit. These people hate like fucking crazy. It's what defines them.
This horseshit incident is getting as much coverage on the MSM as Brussels did. How much coverage has been given to the thousands of death threats Trump gets?
To ask the question is to answer it.
"He prefers to hold his cards until the opposition makes themselves look like fools, first. Gotta love it."
Ah yes, Trump is definitely not looking like a fool in any of this. People see this mess and say "we should put this guy in power."
Does anyone here have a copy of the Florida statutes on battery?
you've forgotten chisholm's reign of terror, so quickly,
http://postonpolitics.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/11/17/hillary-clintons-150-member-florida-team-a-little-thin-on-palm-beach-county-backers/
Blogger jr565 said...
Eric, what rules are you saying she should live by. If someone in a crowd yanked trump by the arm his security guards would be beating th shit out of him at this point. Where did Michelle say it was ok to grab anyone by the arm forecibly.
I'm going to test your theory by tripping trump as he walks by. Then if he complains I'm first going to call him a liar. Then if it turns out there's video I'm going to say "stop whining you Lying bitch. What a crybaby. Aww, you poor little stubby fingers got bruised blocking your fall. You need to toughen up old man. Besides I'm going to sue you for hurting my foot when you tripped on it. You whiney bitch"
3/29/16, 2:26 PM
Doesn't it seem clear now that she did indeed touch Trump? Twice? You can even see in the still picture he posted of him pulling his arm away.
No one thumped her. No one took her to the ground, as she claimed. They merely grabbed her by the arm and pulled her away from Trump.
And yet Trump is only talking about a lawsuit in response. He didn't whine, bitch, moan and complain. Unlike Fields.
"How about a credible source?"
A journalist reported that, Amanda. I know you only accept ThinkProgress and Huffington Post, but try to keep up.
Jr,
When Michelle Fields wrote campaign managers aren't supposed to throw Reporters to the ground, was she implying he had tried to throw her to the ground?
If so, was this a lie?
"Ah yes, Trump is definitely not looking like a fool in any of this. People see this mess and say "we should put this guy in power."
Trump has a choice about Secret Service guidelines? The woman was pushing in on him, repeatedly, in a scrum environment. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
Not to mention the ridiculous MSM coverage, as if this were the Cuban Missile Crisis.
@jr565: "and I agree. This is what should have happened. Clearly what you say is the excuse that should have been used. And it would be a total non story.
But what did they do instead?"
I guess the difference between us is that if it would be a total non story if they responded correctly, I hold that it's a total non story period. I already knew about the sweetness level of Trump's campaign.
Wow. This thread lit up fast and high!
'Victory press conference was over. Why is she allowed to grab me and shout questions? Can I press charges?' Trump tweet.
What a pathetic excuse for a Presidential candidate. what the hell is he going to do when some world leader insults him? Cellophane skin won't hold up to what he will face as President of the most powerful nation on earth. The man is dangerously stupid and narcissistic.
eric wrote:
When Michelle Fields wrote campaign managers aren't supposed to throw Reporters to the ground, was she implying he had tried to throw her to the ground?
If so, was this a lie?
No, because how the grabbing was described is not material to the fact that the grabbing was done. If instead of trying to "throw her to the ground' she instead described it as "tried to grab her back forcibly so she almost fell to ground" its simply a different way to describe the same thing. And neither is acceptable for a campaign manager to do.
"UPDATE: Member of Trump's Secret Service detail confirms Fields touched Trump twice and was warned to stop, before Lewandowski intervened"
So the reporter Lewandowski never heard of and never seen is now the reporter that the secret service warned to stop and that Lewandowski literally dragged away because it was a crowded room and that stuff happens and nothing happened.
Way to keep the nothing story alive, guys.
Interesting. So, a grab is a grab is a grab. Whether you attempt to pull them down to the ground, or merely grab their arm for a moment in order to keep them away from your candidate.
It's not the overhyped severity of the grab that matters. It's just the grab.
Drago wrote: Yes, someone from the party of Hillary actually wrote that with no sense of irony.
But with a sense of sarcasm.
"Trump has a choice about Secret Service guidelines? The woman was pushing in on him, repeatedly, in a scrum environment. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?"
Who is saying anything about Secret Service guidelines? The facts are Trump's aide, probably accidentally, was a bit rough in handling a reporter--which itself is a non-story and would have remained so if Team Trump didn't decide that instead of either (a) apologizing; (b) not apologizing but saying it was inadvertent and explaining they were trying to move people away from the candidate; or (c) saying nothing, instead they decided "hey, let's just say this woman is a delusional liar because of course we know for certain Corey never touched her, yes let's go with that!" and Trump even personally getting involved in the smear.
Now I get that in your "Trump always right" mode you can't step back a moment and think "hey, did my guy act stupidly? Did he give a story legs that should have remained on the back page and gone away weeks ago? Could it be that maybe my guy just loves the spotlight and doesn't care if he looks petty and idiotic?" So instead you have to see it as me saying "no one should have touched her, period!" which simply isn't the case.
eric wrote: Interesting. So, a grab is a grab is a grab. Whether you attempt to pull them down to the ground, or merely grab their arm for a moment in order to keep them away from your candidate.
It's not the overhyped severity of the grab that matters. It's just the grab.
But if you grab someone hard enough you might cause them harm. If you didn't intent to do it, then you should apologize, if only to save your campaign from discussions like this.
Uh oh, gaps are appearing in the Narrative™!
https://twitter.com/TweetBrettMac/status/714883322074140672
"In the video released today you see @BTerris and @MichelleFields together for 5 seconds. Ben then walks off with Corey. In the audio they released though, Ben and Michelle talk for a full minute. Odd."
The difference between people like me and those like Amanda is that we have watched the nonsense and bullshit from the privileged class for so long that we can smell the BS a mile away. We know when a story is being fabricated. We know Astroturf when we see it.
Tcom wrote:
"In the video released today you see @BTerris and @MichelleFields together for 5 seconds. Ben then walks off with Corey. In the audio they released though, Ben and Michelle talk for a full minute. Odd."
SO waht are you insinuating happened. Did they concoct the audio after the fact separately?
TCom,
You are so immersed in the bullshit, you can't smell a thing.
So, sleazier: Trump or Sid Blumenthal? Both are awfully quick to assume that critics are insane and all...
TCom is apparently arguing that either the video or audio was faked or something. Nice.
My worldview isn't 'Trump is always right'. It's 'The entire power establishment wants his head and will do ANYTHING to get it'.
Watching all these chuckleheads make hay out of this idiotic issue just shows me who is still on the side of the failing status quo. That is all.
When you crowd in on a man under SS protection, you might get pulled away. Golly gee, who gives a damn? Well, the people who give a damn are the ones who want to stop Trump at all costs, and don't care how dumb they look doing it.
"Did they concoct the audio after the fact separately?"
Probably, yes. This has had the markings of a hit job from the beginning. She coordinated with notorious Trump hater Ben (((Shapiro))) right out of the starting gate, and they tried a coordinated push on Breitbart to smear Donald. I follow ALL this stuff. I watched it all unfold in real time. This is nothing more than a political hit.
"TCom is apparently arguing that either the video or audio was faked or something. Nice."
Fields released audio of her talking with a Washington Post reporter 'at the scene' where the audio was obviously attempting to implicate. The video does not show them together for anywhere near the length of time necessary for this audio to have taken place.
It's called logic.
Amanda said...
TCom,
You are so immersed in the bullshit, you can't smell a thing.
You do reek of Astroturf, Amanda.
I dunno about that Tcom.
There is a long pause in the audio right in the beginning. That could account for the time they are apart.
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