१० सप्टेंबर, २०१५
On the new "Late Show" last night, Stephen Colbert facilitated an anal rape joke told by Elon Musk.
Colbert invites Musk to talk about the Tesla, and a clip is shown of a device — a "snake charger" — that plugs itself into the car.
Musk chuckles, the first nudge to notice how phallic it is. As the tip of the snake approaches the insertion point on the car, Musk says, "This looks a little wrong." Colbert takes us away from the genitalia metaphor: "That really looks like the thing that jacks into the back of Neo's head in 'The Matrix.'" Musk says: "Right."
But then Colbert sets up what you'll be able to tell is a planned joke: "Is that thing going to attack me in my sleep?" Watch Musk slimily squirming as he feels the approach of the joke. Musk struggles a bit — "Uh, it's, well, I wouldn't, for the prototype, at least" — then gets out the line I'm sure was planned: "I would recommend not dropping anything when you're near it."
That's a variation on "don't drop the soap," the overused (and should never have been used in the first place) prison-rape joke.
The entire interview was awkward and creepy, especially for anyone who isn't a sci-fi/hi-tech fanboy/girl sort of person and predisposed to embrace the smarmy, self-satisfied Musk. Colbert owns a Tesla, and he's interviewed Musk before. He's got him on the second episode of the new show, right after Scarlett Johansson — and he even made Scarlett Johansson talk about Elon Musk. Colbert needed to try to draw in those of us who are outsiders to Musk love.
Perhaps the thinking was: Let's show the lovable nerdy side of Colbert. He loves Tesla. Let's have a weird Steve-and-Elon nerd fest where they make quick references to sci-fi movies and enthuse about relocating to Mars and we can work in a titter over the penis-y movement of a robot. Figure out how to do that well! It's your new network show and you're trying to keep/win an audience.
How is it possible that nobody nixed the anal rape joke?
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I don't know how you can stand watching Colbert. Just seeing his face induces in me a desire to smash that smarmy mug.
Tobias Funke was the first certified psychoanalyst and psychotherapist. He made claims to being the world's first "analrapist" for quite some time, until he lost both his licenses for unnecessarily performing CPR on a sleeping man.
I had the feeling that it would stoop to Letterman territory all too quick.
Watched the Colbert Report some but have no interest in this celebrity pandering and product pushing. No idea who the market for this is. Sure ain't me.
"Uh, it's, well, I wouldn't, for the [indecipherable] time, at least" — the gets out the line I'm sure was planned: "I wouldn't recommend not dropping anything when you're near it."
No, what he says is "For the prototype at least..."
Nice to know I helped a millionaire (Colbert) buy a car from a billionaire (Musk) through my federal income taxes.
As far as the joke...it's a joke. The only thing wrong with it is that it is thread bare and therefore not particularly funny.
"No, what he says is "For the prototype at least...""
I listened to it 20 time without being able to decipher that. I thought I at least had "time" right. Thanks. Will correct.
Anal rape jokes are still allowed. Trigger warnings haven't gotten that far.
The tender ears of women are circling on a comeback via PC.
Nice to know I helped a millionaire (Colbert) buy a car from a billionaire (Musk) through my federal income taxes.
Electric vehicles in the US are bad environmental choice and the tax subsidy is a poor economic choice.
It's not a "prison rape joke" its just a joke, like the old "If you drop your wallet in San Francisco, be sure to kick it all the way to Oakland before you pick it up."
Are we not allowed to tell jokes anymore? Is there going to be a list from the FCC of the seven forbidden subject about which we may not joke? I can picture the first post millennial comic performing in some underground club a stand up routine on that idea.
'Ludicrous mode' is very cool though.
“Many of the boys started calling out ‘She wanted it, it’s not rape,’ and making masturbation noises,” stage manager Claire Sellers told a local news station. Sellers said the remarks were so excessive that cast members “became physically ill and vomited after the show because they were so vulgar.”
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/08/college-promises-to-punish-students-who-heckled-mandatory-play/#ixzz3lLCUMZSb
Sheep vomit when they sense a threat. Sheep. But we shouldn't make jokes! My bet is thought that they didn't vomit from the jokes, they vomited after realizing what a stupid thing they had allowed themselves to be used for.
Why would someone nix the anal rape joke?
Because Colbert is creepy?
Progressive humor is one big anal rape joke.
to embrace the smarmy, self-satisfied Musk
You mean the "smarmy, self-satisfied Musk" who came here penniless and became a billionaire? Or the one who revolutionized at least three different industries? Or the one who gambled a $200 million dollar fortune on himself and won? Or the one who was the first private individual to design, build and launch a rocket, and then successfully dock with the space station? Or the one who created the first successful car company in the US in a hundred years?
I think Musk has plenty of reasons to be self-satisfied.
If you can't mock anal sex, what can else can't you mock? Where's the list?
If you're point is about mocking rape in general, then make it.
Put the come back in comedy.
I refuse to watch Colbert and don't really care what he does, but he clearly should have had Laslo Spatula as the guest to do this joke!
To your fainting couch Althouse!
I used to do god jokes, but I don't have to work diety.
I used to do music jokes, but I don't have to work ditty.
How did no one nix it? Easy--in today's culture, anal rape of a man is hilarious, particularly if it's a man who "deserved it" (such as a prison inmate).
Imagine Colbert making the same joke about the car raping a woman.
He should probably hire a joke diversity consultant to review all jokes for possible umbrage. Maybe it's just time to bring censorship back. Not to enforce morality, of course not, but to make sure nobody is offended.
"Anal rape jokes are still allowed. Trigger warnings haven't gotten that far. The tender ears of women are circling on a comeback via PC."
You and your boy-pals don't have a late-night network show, but if you did, you'd have to put some competent thinking into what the audience is and how you want to make them feel.
Maybe a joke could be worked up with the Virgin Mary and anal sex, combining god with anal rape.
A double trigger joke.
So Mary was in the shower...
Even if one likes edgy humor — and I do, though if I were advising a mainstream show, I might not recommend it — the drop-the-soap rape joke is not edgy. It's very old and trite. And comic writer who stoops to that should get... fired from the show.
You and your boy-pals don't have a late-night network show, but if you did,....
To be fair, neither do you.
You and your boy-pals don't have a late-night network show, but if you did, you'd have to put some competent thinking into what the audience is and how you want to make them feel.
Oh absolutely. It's about ratings, and that's soap opera women.
But you can mock soap opera women. Nothing is more important to the health of the country. Anything to reduce their editorial clout.
A man never stands taller than when he stoops to pick up the soap.
Honestly, were I in charge of the show, I might have nixed the anal rape thing on grounds of taste, not of politics. But if you are going to fire any writer that uses trite jokes, which I wholeheartedly endorse as a matter of permanent policy, well, whoever let it get out of the writing room anyway, you are going to lose a large part of Colbert's audience.
He is a hack. That joke is on him (as in he is responsible), not the writers, he could have sent it back, but he didn't. To paraphrase some NFK coach in an interview one time, "He is who we thought he was!"
You and your boy-pals don't have a late-night network show, but if you did, you'd have to put some competent thinking into what the audience is and how you want to make them feel.
I think this is exactly what the show runners and their 'boy-pals' did here.
NFK = NFL
I bet if you could run a net through Hollywood and it gathered up thoughts from entertainer's brains and collected them into a great pile, and you sorted through it, the largest stack would be for the thought "I can't believe this shtick is working!"
Soap was made by man for his body's use; yet it does not willingly attend him. This inert stone is nearly as hard to hold as a fish. See it slip from me and like a frog dive into the basin again...emitting also at its own expense a blue cloud of evanescence, of confusion...
What a magnificent way of life soap shows us!
In the sun its forehead dries, darkens, hardens, cracks. Care split it. Yet it never conserves itself so well as when thus inactive and forgotten.
In water, on the contrary, where it becomes supple, circulates, seems at ease -- one has difficulty recovering it -- where it moves around, grows agile, then voluble, eloquent, -- it spends itself at a disquieting rate, it doens not remain uninconvenienced... Is this what is called living a dissipated life...? I see in it as well the sign of a particular dignity.
- Francis Ponge
Dennis Green
The Nutty Perfesser is pretty touchy about the subject of anal sex.
She diligently avoids the fact that her treasured "gay marriage" BS is really about one man sticking his dick in another man's shit.
Because that kind fucks up the whole "dignity" thing, doesn't it? Shit on a stick. AIDS. 10s of millions of people dead. The offense gay men committed against the common good.
You know, all that yucky reality stuff the Nutty Perfessor wants to avoid talking about.
Because it would reveal that she's a crazy, lying fag hag. Fag hag fantasize that the gay boys want to screw them. They don't. They want to stick their dicks in shit. Not quite so chic when you confront the reality. It's sick shit.
It's odd that soap jokes would be called dirty.
Pick-up lines take on a new meaning with soap jokes.
"Ann Althouse said...
Even if one likes edgy humor — and I do, though if I were advising a mainstream show, I might not recommend it — the drop-the-soap rape joke is not edgy. It's very old and trite. And comic writer who stoops to that should get... fired from the show."
Oh Christ it's one dumb joke in what will be one dumb show. But that's not what has your panties in a bunch. Nope. It's that it's just one more example that at the end of the day, no matter how many people put little rainbows on their Facebook pages, a dude sticking his dick in another dude's ass is simply not accepted.
At least Colbert didn't joke about cornholing again. That offended Iowans.
Can you remember when you thought the Nutty Perfesser was a sane exception to the depravity and infantilism of tenured academia?
That was back before she started rhapsodizing about men sticking their dicks' in other men's shit.
Can you imagine how fucking depraved, infantile and loony her colleagues in the law school are that she seems like the sane one?
There are even wedding shower jokes.
Some of you who are commenting in favor of the anal rape joke are, interestingly enough, the commenters who, when talking about same-sex marriage, reveal your anxiety about penises going where they (in your view) do not belong.
Comedy interacts with anxiety, and you might benefit from thinking deeply about why you find yourself laughing at anal rape jokes.
NOTE TO ALL READERS OF THIS FORUM: Write Colbert show. Demand Colbert provide Trigger Warnings for Ann. Find out what network the show appears on, and write the network with same demand. Find out sponsors of the show, and write sponsors threatening boycott.
NOTE TO ALTHOUSE: Do not watch Colbert. I appreciate your work trolling the New York Times, New Yorker, Atlantic, etc. for us, but watching Colbert is just pointless gutter-crawling.
Some of you who are commenting in favor of the anal rape joke are, interestingly enough, the commenters who, when talking about same-sex marriage, reveal your anxiety about penises going where they (in your view) do not belong.
God alone knows why people would be "anxious" about the behavior that caused the AIDS epidemic and took the lives of tens of millions of innocent people, huh?
That was a fucking stupid reply, Perfesser.
People are sorta "anxious" about the blood supply being tainted, too. God alone knows why.
Jesus, you are crazy as fuck.
"...you might benefit from thinking deeply..."
or "thinking long and hard" for that matter.
I'm just disappointed that a post involving anal sex and Scarlett Johansson didn't have a 'Laslo Spatula' tag, just on principle.
I am Laslo.
I am trying to figure out why Prof. Althouse doesn't like Elon Musk. He is a regular guy who happens to be a billionaire empire builder. Does he also have to be charming on television? Part of an awkward and creepy interview here, questions of autism in previous posts; think of him as a later day Edison rather than a really smart George Clooney and that will probably help with the disconnect. And Elon Musk hasn't electrocuted an elephant, yet.
When this 'docking' video made the rounds a couple of weeks ago there were all sorts of anal sex jokes on facebook and reddit and probably all the other social media networks that I ignore. Butt sex robots are a little scary, we deal with it through humor. Musk is one of the strongest critics of artificial intelligence so he is on the front line defending you from autonomous butt sex robots.
There are even Biblical proscriptions against the behavior that caused the AIDS epidemic, tainted the blood supply and killed (and continues) to kill people by the millions.
I wonder why?
Apparently, they are dying from "anxiety."
The Nutty Perfesser's clever reply is on the level of the accusation that fear of Muslims is "Islamophobia."
Couldn't be that thing about blowing up the World Trade Center, could it?
"Are you coming to bed?"
"I can't come to bed. This is important"
"What?"
"Someone is not funny on a late night comedy show"
This just in: 60-something year-old white woman doesn't think a joke on late night TV is funny.
"I am trying to figure out why Prof. Althouse doesn't like Elon Musk. He is a regular guy who happens to be a billionaire empire builder. Does he also have to be charming on television? Part of an awkward and creepy interview here, questions of autism in previous posts; think of him as a later day Edison rather than a really smart George Clooney and that will probably help with the disconnect. And Elon Musk hasn't electrocuted an elephant, yet."
Did you watch the video? I'm reacting to a particular piece of video, which can be watched. You're trying to "figure out" how I could react negatively to this man, but did you watch the video? Observe him. Try objectively, in words, to describe him, exactly as he is. Then read that.
"When this 'docking' video made the rounds a couple of weeks ago there were all sorts of anal sex jokes on facebook and reddit and probably all the other social media networks that I ignore. Butt sex robots are a little scary, we deal with it through humor. Musk is one of the strongest critics of artificial intelligence so he is on the front line defending you from autonomous butt sex robots."
I was seeing the video for the first time and watching a mainstream network show that's in its second episode and establishing its tone.
I don't get how Musk can talk about climate change, with many references to carbon emissions, and then effuse about his rockets and his efforts to go to Mars. I'd like Colbert to confront him about the carbon emissions from those rockets.
As for Musk as Edison... does Musk do the inventing himself?
Is an electric car really much of an invention?
Drop the defense of throwing up a thicket of pettifoggery for a moment, Perfesser.
You're behaving like a dumb child.
It would have been truly subversive for them to have avoided the anal-rape gag altogether - and they could have, given the weirdness of the fueling device. A grand opportunity missed.
"the smarmy, self-satisfied Musk"
He's perfect for the smarmy, self-satisfied Colbert.
There have been electric cars around since the mid-1800s.
I don't get how Musk can talk about climate change, with many references to carbon emissions, and then effuse about his rockets and his efforts to go to Mars. I'd like Colbert to confront him about the carbon emissions from those rockets.
Rockets burn liquid H2 and liquid O2. A fairer question is where does all that H2 come from?
Probably, without looking to check, the Tesla has a male connection and the fueler a female.
I don't get how Musk can talk about climate change, with many references to carbon emissions, and then effuse about his rockets and his efforts to go to Mars. I'd like Colbert to confront him about the carbon emissions from those rockets.
Why would a liberal like Colbert worry about consistency from environmentalists? Also, liberals want to be seen as caring about the environment but divorcing that from the idea that they want all of us to go back to living in mud huts and dying of dysentery at 25 - if they start saying things like "well you know, for the sake of the green movement we're going to have to quit doing things like space exploration," then they are putting lots of bureaucrats out of jobs and claiming elements of their platform to be mutually exclusive.
A no go.
But that's fine, because whether the issue is the insanity of a generous welfare state coupled with open borders, or why we need more money for public education to produce productive workers all while claiming a completely uneducated peasant who speaks not a word of English up from Guatemala is a massive boon for the American economy... the doublespeak continues to work its magic.
"I'd like Colbert to confront him about the carbon emissions from those rockets."
Scintillating TV in the midnight hour.
Colbert is not a journalist.
"Rockets burn liquid H2 and liquid O2."
A smart person would be able to deduce what the byproduct from the combustion of the above would be.
As for Musk as Edison... does Musk do the inventing himself?
At least as much as Edison did. He wrote the code for his first internet company himself.
Is an electric car really much of an invention?
His is. Four door, 5 adult passenger sedan that goes 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and is the safest car in the world. The running on electricity, and free charging stations are a bonus.
Isn't it somewhat racist to badmouth Musk like this?
Seems to me that putting a prison joke with an African American man like musk is beyond the pale.
Or should be. Ann, you need to give us trigger warnings
John Henry
Rockets burn liquid H2 and liquid O2."
A smart person would be able to deduce what the byproduct from the combustion of the above would be.
Di-hydrogen monoxide is a much more efficient greenhouse gas, and contributes much more to global warming than Co2 does.
But it is a lot harder to ban.
"As for Musk as Edison... does Musk do the inventing himself?"
Let us Google that for you.
"Di-hydrogen monoxide is a much more efficient greenhouse gas, and contributes much more to global warming than Co2 does."
I don't think that's true. Yes, it is an efficient greenhouse gas, but my understanding is that absorption by water is already saturated so that additional water emissions have nothing to absorb. At least that's what I was told by a climate scientist. Haven't checked it out myself.
Electric vehicles in the US are bad environmental choice and the tax subsidy is a poor economic choice.
But they make liberals feel good. So there! :-P
"That's a variation on "don't drop the soap," the overused (and should never have been used in the first place) prison-rape joke."
You are so sensitive sometimes. I invite you to think deeply about this. You could do one of your patented AA deconstructions here. Consider 1. why prison-rape jokes were considered sort-of-funny in the first place (violation of heteronormative taboo, men-have-it-coming reverses genders); 2. why they became overused (taboo faded, things anal become fit for public discussion, heteronormativity lost its power to exclude); 3. why even seemingly progressive, pro-SSM viewers nonetheless feel they "should never have been used" (deep down even bad humor confirms the actual moral order, acceptance of male anal sex is not as widespread as public Prog victories might suggest, Prog acceptance of male-on-male violence exposes rank hypocrisy in protestations about rape culture). The possibilities are endless.
"he even made Scarlett Johansson talk about Elon Musk. Colbert needed to try to draw in those of us who are outsiders to Musk love."
Progs don't do drawing in. They shove down throats. Hope that's not too harsh for you.
Yes, it is an efficient greenhouse gas, but my understanding is that absorption by water is already saturated so that additional water emissions have nothing to absorb.
If you look at satellite data around 6.5 micron -- in the middle of one water vapor absorption band (Example) it's usually impossible to see the surface (exceptions: Very cold -- dry -- air).
If you look at a carbon dioxide channel (say, 13.37 microns here -- bonus that there's also water vapor channels to view there (6.5, 7.0, 7.4)) -- you can still see the surface, meaning CO2 hasn't absorbed all the emitted radiation.
Elon Musk is a great engineer and entrepreneur. But neither he not Colbert are particularly funny.
@MadMan, very good!
Thanks, MM. I need to bookmark that site. Water vapor kills transparency which is crucial for good astronomical observing. If I had that in the field, I'd know whether to wait for an approaching hole or to go to bed.
I don't think it's "obviously a planned joke," and I think Colbert seemed a little surprised at Musk's remark. (Notice that Colbert gives a sudden and brief smile in response, then quickly moves on, not dwelling or elaborating on Musk's remark.)
Now, it could have been a planned joke, but it seems like a convincingly spontaneous exchange to me. Colbert's asking "Is it going to attack me in my sleep?" does not have to be a reference to anal rape, but can be simply a nod to the age-old sci-fi idea of robots revolting against their human masters. The charger moving on its own does look eerie, as if it were an autonomous creature, and that resemblance to life does lead to jokey not-necessarily-referring-to-anal-rape questions such as Colbert's.
Kate Hudson "A Little Bit of Heaven" to doctor about to do colonoscopy
"Before we go to whatever base this is we're going to, um, shouldn't I know your first name?"
"Julian."
Is an electric car really much of an invention? - Althouse
It was the battery that was a brilliant stroke. We have never seen performance like the Tesla in any electric car before. It's not a chemical battery, as I understand it, but a capacitor. We used to charge up capacitors in the electronics lab and toss them to other students who would then get a real charge out of catching them, but we never thought to make a high performance battery for a high performance car out of them.
Re political correctness: Colbert claimed that Trump's immigration policy is one that the KKK approved of. He left up a picture of Trump and white robed KKK figures for a considerable time. Not exactly a subliminal image. Being pro wall is being pro KKK. Trump and the KKK are part of the same oleganeous mass.....I think it would not be PC to depict Mexicans wearing sombreros and ponchos or Africans as having bones in their nose. Why is it PC to depict white people with whose immigration policies you disagree as KKK members? Why is an anal rape joke more offensive than an unfair KKK reference?
Althouse: I'd like Colbert to confront him...
You're relying on liberal comedians for journalism and public accountability?
I think I'm beginning to see your problem.
Those huge moral and cognitive blind spots you're stumbling into didn't create themselves.
Paul said...
A smart person would be able to deduce what the byproduct from the combustion of the above would be.
The issue is not the emissions from the rocket burning its fuel. This issue is the emissions from producing the fuel.
Which I suspect is a trivial issue, since there are so few rocket launches, and even if they become as common as Musk would like, would still be greatly outweighed by other sources of carbon emissions.
MadisonMan - I'm trying to figure out the grayscale of the first image you provided. Southern Wisconsin is white, which I'm assuming means high water vapor, but Arkansas is black. Is this low water vapor? I looked at the "GOES-12 water vapor color enhancement" image but no definition of the color scale is provided. Is blue high water vapor and red low?
CO2 absorbs on some bands not saturated by water vapor, and in theory, CO2 is well mixed in the atmosphere so it doesn't travel in vast patches the way water vapor does, and of course the theory is that the modest warming introduced by CO2 will cause the atmosphere to absorb more water, thus increasing the greenhouse effect of CO2 alone. The theory of "the enhanced greenhouse effect."
It is just a theory by the way, a conjecture really. There are so many unknowns of greater potential impact than the predicted warming itself that we simple just don't know. Any honest person who is demanding cutbacks in CO2 emissions, which will be of great economic cost* should say that we shouldn't be running an experiment with unknowable results on our only planet. But they would rather pretend to know that scary things are certain to happen to increase the power of their propaganda.
*Hint: the economic collapse of the Soviet Union helped them reach their Kyoto targets with room to spare and our current malaise has helped the US to cut emissions.
I think anal rape jokes are OK when male on male, but practically illegal if male on female.
Musk can talk about carbon emissions, blah, blah, while building rockets because he is just creating products to service different markets. I could create and write all sorts of stuff for an organic or vegan line, explaining how each ingredient was sourced without harming any animals, then swing by McDonalds for well processed Big Mac. I provided what my customers wanted.
I used to get customers come in and discuss their new line of products they wanted to be developed. They would be adamant that there be no animal products. I wanted to say, "Nice purse. Is that leather?". Or, "Nice Lexus. Leather seats?"
What I like about Musk and Tesla is that he made an electric car that people actually want to drive rather than a car that is almost the same as a gas driven model, only with limited range, and a higher price tag, even after subsidy.
I would buy a Tesla if I weren't so fond of long road trips.
"I would buy a Tesla if I weren't so fond of long road trips."
Yeah, like to the next town.
I would buy a Tesla if I weren't so fond of long road trips.
You can take long road trips in a TESLA. You just have to stop every three or four hours for a twenty minute bathroom break while you charge your car FOR FREE at the TESLA charging stations all over the country.
Ann Althouse said...You and your boy-pals don't have a late-night network show, but if you did, you'd have to put some competent thinking into what the audience is and how you want to make them feel.
Supporting point or counterpoint: Late-night network show host Jimmy Kimmel's big gig before that spot was as a host of the boy-pal popular & raunchy "Man Show" on Comedy Central. I don't watch Kimmel's show so I can't say whether his tone is less boy-pal friendly--if it is then that's some evidence for the Prof.
Yes, the "drop the soap" joke is old. I suspect that there was a variation of it shared among the Sumerians. I suspect if we found the right cave somewhere, there is a drawing of a similar event, possibly involving a example of amorous wildlife. I suspect it would look like Laslo's avatar.
And, yet, it is still funny.
And that's the thing. Sex is funny. All types of sex are funny. Straight sex is funny. Gay sex is funny. Young people having sex is funny, middle aged people having sex is funny, old people having sex is funny. Animals having sex is funny. Fictional characters having sex is funny. Inanimate objects having sex is funny. Ghosts having sex is funny. Jet fighters refueling in the air is funny. People putting their index finger through a circle made from the thumb and index finger on the other hand is funny. "Sit on it!" is funny. Venereal diseases are funny. Adultery is funny. Farmer's daughters are funny. Masturbation is funny. Pregnancy is funny. I can go on.
Now that does not mean every example of sex is funny. There are reasons why some generic jokes are considered funny while using a particular example would not be. That does not mean that sex jokes are in good taste, or that any sex jokes are in good taste, however you may define that. It also does not mean we all have the same definition of "good taste." As always, your mileage may vary. But, for the record, stopping the jokes generally has no impact on the real life application. I'm sure that Bubba in San Quentin is not considering late night monologues before hiding the bone. Did I mention that euphemisms are funny?
But, yeah, seeing a robotic snake making a very slow and deliberate insertion at about waist level... yeah, that's funny. The comedic tragic part of it is you know someone will test that out intentionally. Probably will end up in the hospital. And Colbert will do a joke about it.
Is an electric car really much of an invention?
...
There have been electric cars around since the mid-1800s.
1835 James Bowman Lindsay demonstrates a light bulb based electric lighting system to the citizens of Dundee.
1867 A. E. Becquerel demonstrates the first fluorescent lamp.
1874 Alexander Lodygin patents an Incandescent light bulb.
1875 Henry Woodward patents an electric light bulb.
1879 Thomas Edison and Joseph Wilson Swan patent the carbon-thread incandescent lamp. It lasted 40 hours.
Edison gets credit for developing an existing idea into a practical product.
"You just have to stop every three or four hours for a twenty minute bathroom break..."
20 minutes every 3 hours? Forget that.
Ann Althouse said...
As for Musk as Edison... does Musk do the inventing himself?
Is an electric car really much of an invention?
No. Getting the taxpayers to fund his projects is though.
Hence the anal rape jokes.
Until a more efficient storage system is worked out electric vehicles will remain just a novelty.
Is there a Tesla charging station in Wausau? Eagle River? Watersmeet?
Ann Althouse said...
There have been electric cars around since the mid-1800s.
That's a remarkably weak point, Professor.
A type of steam engine (the aeolipile existed almost 2,000 years before Newcomen and Watt, so what's so cutting edge about their inventions? Smarmy inventors, taking credit for kicking off an industrial revolution (and raising the standard of living of the entire globe more and more quickly than at any time in human history)--they didn't build that!
Now, Musk might not be the next Watt or Edison, and he may have a disagreeable personality or style of presentation, but it's a bit silly to pretend that he and his company haven't added anything to the world in terms of technological knowledge and achievement.
If one cared to they might interpret such (uncharacteristically) weak & pointless arguments as defensiveness on your part, and from that speculate broadly as to the cause, but that seems uncharitable.
Ann Althouse said...
I don't get how Musk can talk about climate change, with many references to carbon emissions, and then effuse about his rockets and his efforts to go to Mars. I'd like Colbert to confront him about the carbon emissions from those rockets.
Do you have any data on the actual carbon emissions of Musk's rockets (and rocket research, test flights, etc), Prof, or do you just feel like it must be high relative to some standard? I don't know, myself, how much more carbon intensive his rocket prgm is vs. flying a private plane around the world several times a year, say, or some other typical billionare activity. I wonder if you do know and have this reaction based on that knowledge, or if instead this is a visceral reaction without comparison to likely alternatives. Do you mean Colbert should consider Musk anti-environmental because instead of doing nothing he's doing a rocket prgm, or because he's doing a rocket prgm instead of doing X (with some value for the carbon-intensity of X)?
Since the easiest and most obvious answer from Musk would be something about how his prgm (and goal to get to Mars) is pro-environment because it supports research and will lead to innovations that will result in a large net carbon savings (or possibly "solve" the problem altogether by making Mars habitable or something) have you considered that argument and dismissed it already, and if so why?
"Did you watch the video? I'm reacting to a particular piece of video, which can be watched. You're trying to "figure out" how I could react negatively to this man, but did you watch the video? Observe him. Try objectively, in words, to describe him, exactly as he is. Then read that."
He's a pretty normal engineering type of a guy. You are expecting him to come onto a network TV show and wow you and 10 million other folks laying in their beds. You're expectations are way too high. 95% of the population will come off as awkward when put in this situation. Objectively watch a talkingheads blog video and see if your co-hosts come off any better. There is a reason Elon Musk is an engineer and your cohosts are law profs. Jimmy Fallon and Justin Timberlake they ain't.
If you are going to criticize look to Stephen Colbert. He's got talent and questionable charisma. He's the one making the editorial decisions to bring on Musk and to feature the 'docking' video. Watching Colbert on Latenight is like watching your favorite bar band open for a big act in front of 5000 people. What works in a small community doesn't always scale up.
Southern Wisconsin is white, which I'm assuming means high water vapor, but Arkansas is black. Is this low water vapor? I looked at the "GOES-12 water vapor color enhancement" image but no definition of the color scale is provided. Is blue high water vapor and red low?
In the grey scale of water vapor, dark is warm. The top of the water vapor layer in the atmosphere is warm, meaning it's low in the atmosphere. Grey regions are colder and white regions are coldest. The water vapor imagery shows a three-dimensional view of the top of the water vapor layer. The grey scaling is not well correlated with how much moisture is actually in the atmosphere, however -- the top might be the top of a very moist atmosphere or a relatively dry one. It still looks the same in the water vapor imagery. That's because it doesn't take much water vapor to absorb all the outgoing radiation.
I'm having trouble finding the GOES-12 color enhancement, although I've seen it before. I think red is warm, blue is cold. So red would mean the top of the water vapor layer is low in the atmosphere.
Tesla may go out of business in the near future.
No. Getting the taxpayers to fund his projects is though.
Musk repays his loans, ahead of time and in full. He receives much less government support than his competitors in every field. TESLA did not get a bailout when the other auto companies did.
Until a more efficient storage system is worked out electric vehicles will remain just a novelty
Huge breakthroughs have just been announced extending the lifetime and storage capacity of lithium ion batteries like those that TESLA uses.
Is there a Tesla charging station in Wausau? Eagle River? Watersmeet?
I don't know...does anyone there own a TESLA? If so, there is probably one in their garage.
Tesla may go out of business in the near future.
So may Ford and GM. Unless the government bails them out. Again.
"I don't know...does anyone there own a TESLA? If so, there is probably one in their garage."
That doesn't help me when I travel from Madison to Watersmeet through Wausau and Eagle River.
Electric vehicles in the US are bad environmental choice and the tax subsidy is a poor economic choice.
link fixed
"The grey scaling is not well correlated with how much moisture is actually in the atmosphere, however"
Is there any presentation which does correlate with the total attenuation (I believe the term is "optical depth") along the path length from the satellite to the ground?
Original Mike: Tesla Motors website - Supercharger location map
"How do rocket emissions impact ozone and climate?" ("Rockets emit a variety of substances depending on their propellant. Some, like liquid hydrogen and oxygen (H2/O2) are very clean, emitting mainly water (H2O) and some nitric oxide (NO), which is produced by the heat of combustion. Others, like aluminum/ammonium perchlorate (or "Solid Rocket Motors", SRMs) release hydrochloric acid (HCl) and alumina (Al2O3) particles. Rockets that use hydrazine (N2H4) and nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4) (sometimes called "hypergolic", because these chemicals spontaneously ignite on contact) produce large quantities of nitrogen oxides, which can further react with water vapor and sulfate in the atmosphere to form small particles containing nitric acid. Kerosene rockets (essentially "aircraft fuel") produce CO2 and black carbon ("soot"), which are climate-active gases (meaning that they absorb infrared or visible light, heating the surrounding air). There is a new type of propellant called "hydrid" that is being used by some private companies. Hybrids are a mixture of a liquid oxidizer, nitrous oxide (N2O), and a solid synthetic rubber (a butadiene) that, when burned in the oxygen-poor environment of the upper atmosphere produce CO2 and large amounts of soot (which is readily visible in photos of these rockets, because it is black or grey in color) and probably large amounts of nitric oxides (although there are no measurements in these plumes to verify the presence of NOx)....")
Just because some people don't like a form of humor, it does not follow that the form of humor is not funny to someone else.
And to censor humor is to censor an ultimate kind of truth.
I, for one, relish horribly improper humor. Its existence means we are still free to laugh at what needs laughed at, if we can laugh at that which does not need laughed at.
Gahrie: So may Ford and GM. Unless the government bails them out. Again.
If I remember correctly, Ford did not take a bailout. GM and Chrysler did.
Tesla is not a car company. It's an energy company that also makes cars.
"And that's the thing. Sex is funny. All types of sex are funny. Straight sex is funny. Gay sex is funny. Young people having sex is funny, middle aged people having sex is funny, old people having sex is funny. Animals having sex is funny. Fictional characters having sex is funny. Inanimate objects having sex is funny. Ghosts having sex is funny. Jet fighters refueling in the air is funny. People putting their index finger through a circle made from the thumb and index finger on the other hand is funny. "Sit on it!" is funny. Venereal diseases are funny. Adultery is funny. Farmer's daughters are funny. Masturbation is funny. Pregnancy is funny. I can go on."
What you didn't say is: "Rape is funny," and that's the subject here. A big omission. So, in your view, is rape funny?
I know there is a George Carlin routine on the subject of whether you can make rape jokes. But it's not based on the idea that "rape is funny."
Ann: Comedy interacts with anxiety, and you might benefit from thinking deeply about why you find yourself laughing at anal rape jokes.
*facepalm*
This is "I know you are but what am I?" for smart people.
It's more clever when spoken by five-year-olds.
A concern about robotic anal sex is funny. It is a pretty long distance from "Don't bend over in front of this robotic phallus" and "Haha, Johnny got ass raped in prison" If you want to classify them as the same that's fine. Don't expect everyone to jump on your bandwagon though.
It is more a riff on the roles of robots in our future and a metaphor for just how we will welcome our new robotic overlords. Read up on Elon and his concerns about AI and you might even come over onto my bandwagon.
Rape is hilarious, when it happens to dudes. Cuz you're not supposed to rape dudes.
@HoodlumDoodlum: looks like if all I want to do is travel from Madison to the Twin Cities I'm good. Otherwise, not so much.
Original Mike said...
@HoodlumDoodlum: looks like if all I want to do is travel from Madison to the Twin Cities I'm good.
If all you want to do is travel from Madison to the Twin Cities you are decidedly not good. There is something seriously wrong with you that no amount of charging stations will fix.
Iggy: that's my point.
What do you call a man with no arms and legs in the ocean?
Bo- DO YOU THINK AMPUTATIONS ARE FUNNY!?!
A lot of humor is about topics that are horrifying or horrible. One of the reasons people tell jokes is to let out anxiety.
Ann: What you didn't say is: "Rape is funny," and that's the subject here. A big omission. So, in your view, is rape funny?
I know there is a George Carlin routine on the subject of whether you can make rape jokes. But it's not based on the idea that "rape is funny."
Well, I thought "sex is funny" and "I can go on" would qualify as inclusive for all sex and sexual-related activities, especially after a paragraph of discussion of the eternal humor of "don't drop the soap," but it appears I was mistaken. This is what I get for trying not to be too redundant.
Yes, rape is funny, or to be more specific it can be funny. I have heard comedy routines about rape that were hilarious. I have heard comedy routines about rape that we horrifyingly offensive. I have heard rape jokes that I have laughed at and felt conflicted later. I have heard rape jokes told by rape victims. I am still scratching my head about the Robot Chicken sketch that had the ghost of Liberace serial raping a stand-in of of the Scooby-Doo gang (except the girls, obviously, one of which who was very disappointed).
The fact that in practice something is horrible, which rape is almost universally, does not mean that humor cannot be found there. Monty Python managed to turn a mass crucifixion into a most amusing singing number. Mel Brooks managed to make racism, slavery, the Spanish Inquisition, genocide, and freaking Adolph Hitler hilarious. Douglas Adams managed to get comedy gold out of the heat death of the universe. The catalog of jokes about death in its various combinations and permutations are ancient, extensive, and ever-present.
Frankly, when you make something beyond laughter you are giving it a power over you. Not recommended. Doesn't mean you have to find a particular joke funny, of course.
Ann: IS RAPE FUNNY?!?
You mean, if it was you?
Re: your 9/10/15, 9:00 AM, I think it's about time you gave a detailed history of your experiences with anal sex.
Ann Althouse said..."How do rocket emissions impact ozone and climate?"
Thank you for the link, Professor; without looking it up did you know what kind of rockets Musk's company (Space X) produces? Hereis a link to the wiki article with the answer.
SpaceShipOne uses a hybrid engine, and per your link those are the most worrisome (since they produce the most soot). If you think of Space X as being in competition with Scaled Composites then you've cast Musk as the proponent and builder of a "cleaner" type of rocket than Rutan...and again challenging Musk on his environmental record won't make much sense.
Some quotes from the bottom section of the page you linked:
Even so, rockets don't contribute much to the background CO2, which is
already quite large due to natural and man-made emissions. It is very likely that unless rocket activities increase by many orders of magnitude, CO2
emissions will not contribute to any changes in climate that can be directly attributed to 'rockets.'
Also:
(4) In our recent paper in Geophysical Research Letters we estimate that the impact of black carbon emissions by space tourism rockets
will change Earth's climate in ways that will be large enough that those changes could be attributed to the rocket activities themselves.
Some regions of the globe will experience a slight cooling, due to shading of the surface by the black carbon layer (which is predicted to
develop mainly in an annulus around the globe at the latitude of the launch site), and some will warm due to a change in atmospheric
circulation. None of these predictions are controversial - that is, similar kinds of changes have been predicted by others for different
emissions (aircraft operations, greenhouse gas emissions, etc.). What is important about the study is that is shows that the changes that
can be attributed to rockets will be large enough that they could be detectable and, if so, they will be directly attributable to the launch
activities themselves. Some of the the changes might be considered beneficial, some harmful. That is mainly an ethics debate. What is clear
is that the formation of a layer of soot in the stratosphere is essentially a solar radiation management issue. If scientists were
to propose to release soot into the stratosphere, it would be called a 'geoengineering' experiment and they would be required to file an
environmental impact statement.
That doesn't help me when I travel from Madison to Watersmeet through Wausau and Eagle River.
How far is the trip? If it is less than 300 miles, you can make it one charge, plug your car into the wall, and recharge while you are visiting.
If not, rent a gas burner for the trip. When I go farther than a couple of hundred miles I usually rent a car anyways, to save wear and tear on mine.
"How far is the trip? If it is less than 300 miles, you can make it one charge, plug your car into the wall, and recharge while you are visiting."
Yeah, there aren't any charging stations in the middle of the woods.
"If not, rent a gas burner for the trip. When I go farther than a couple of hundred miles I usually rent a car anyways, to save wear and tear on mine."
I really get a kick out of the contortions true believers go through to justify their fetish.
It's not an anal rape joke, it's an anal penetration joke. Rape involves a minimum of two people. If you're lying in bed and hear someone on tv make an allusion to the idea of an object entering his anus and it makes you think about anal rape - well, I decline to join you in those thoughts.
The entire interview was awkward and creepy, especially for anyone who isn't a sci-fi/hi-tech fanboy/girl sort of person and predisposed to embrace the smarmy, self-satisfied Musk.
Talking about your own engineering/management/business accomplishments: "smarmy, self-satisfied".
Casually denigrating your family and hometown: "sweet and self-effacing".
Is an electric car really much of an invention?
Right? It's not like he got people to sing on TV.
The nature of humor was discussed in Robert Heinlein's famous cult classic "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress." The discussion was mainly between a field engineer (Manny) and a sentient supercomputer (Mike, short for Mycroft Holmes). Humor was broken into 2 categories: Funny once jokes, and funny every time they are told jokes. Example of a funny once joke: Why are goldfish and lasers alike? Because neither of them can whistle. Funny once jokes often produce a groan instead of a laugh. An example of a funny always joke was the "Tapeworm" joke told by Bob Boyd in yesterday's thread about the Homeopathy conference. I've told the same tasteless joke (slight variant, actually) a number of times over the last 30 years, usually to good laughs. (It's not as funny as the "3 Legged Pig" joke or the "Guaranteed Rooster" joke though. Both of those may be familiar to Wisconsinites, and are not as tasteless as the "Tapeworm" joke.)
In Heinlein's classic novel, the characters reached 2 interesting conclusions though. One was that, for certain classes of jokes, men and women don't necessarily agree what is funny. (No shit.) The other conclusion they came to was that, for funny always jokes, that most jokes in this category come at the expense of someone. Someone is embarrassed, or looks stupid, or made to seem silly, even if it is not the direct point of the joke. I have found this to be mostly true. Back to the don't-drop-the-soap-in-the-shower joke. A "funny always" tasteless class of joke that seems to bear out this theory. Not sure where any of this gets us, but interesting to think about, as it says a lot about basic human nature.
I really get a kick out of the contortions true believers go through to justify their fetish.
I'm not an eviro wacko or a climate change alarmist. I just recognize that I rarely drive anywhere close to 300 miles in a day, and think a 5 passenger, 4 door car that goes from 0-60 in 3.2 seconds that I can potentially drive for free is awesome.
I would never drive a Prius or a Leaf, but if Musk ever delivers on his $30,00 - $35,000 electric car, I'll be first in line
"I'm not an eviro wacko or a climate change alarmist. I just recognize that I rarely drive anywhere close to 300 miles in a day, ..."
I hear you. Me too. But my vehicles need to service ALL of my driving needs. If I were rich and had a 3 car garage I'd buy an electric car. But I'm not and I don't, so until they can charge in < 5 minutes the idea is silly. And that's where 95% of Americans are. And I guess the reason I get my back up is the government is trying to shove these things down our throats, notwithstanding that the electricity comes from fossil fuels. It's just stupid.
To all the Tesla haters here:
I have a Tesla. We recently took a road trip in it: From Salem down the CA coast (Arcata, Sea Ranch), then further through Petaluma and Richmond, then down the East Bay to Gilroy, then a couple of days in Carmel, then back along I-5 and up. Charging was mostly at Tesla superchargers, sometimes at chargers more generally for all EVs, like the one at the Arcata motel we stopped at overnight.
Yes, it's true that you cannot drive everywhere in the country in a Tesla. But we managed pretty well. (And the supercharger map is heating up; my husband is waiting for the one in Boise to become active, which would make his old route to Estes Park, CO entirely practical.)
What is with the hate-on people have for Musk and for Tesla, anyway? Yes, there's a tax credit. All EVs get one, and it's the same size for all, so naturally it's a bigger fraction of the price for a Leaf or a Volt or a Fit EV (there are a lot of EVs now) than for a Tesla. But Tesla is literally the only one called out on it. Holman Jenkins at the WSJ has run anti-Tesla articles three weeks running.
Me, I'm not an elitist environmentalist, not so's you'd notice. We like the Tesla for its performance (you have to experience that acceleration to believe it), its safety, and its looks. That it also runs on free (OK, pre-paid) power is just an extra. We are rubbing exactly no one's noses in that.
Original Mike,
The electricity up here is largely hydroelectric, and what isn't is mostly natural gas. Things are different elsewhere, I understand.
But again, the same goes for your Volt/Leaf/Fit/&c. owner. Why single out Tesla?
For the record, I watched the Colbert bit on Trump, including the KKK graphic.
The KKK thing was irresponsible. One does not put up a KKK graphic along with anything else unless you really mean those two are related. The fact that some white supremacists like Trump means very little.
With that said, the rest of the bit was funny despite the cheap shot. And that is coming from someone who dislikes political humor. It's not an A+, but a solid B effort. The fact that it was only partially political and the fact that Trump is half presidential candidate, half cartoon character also helps.
"It's not an anal rape joke, it's an anal penetration joke. Rape involves a minimum of two people. If you're lying in bed and hear someone on tv make an allusion to the idea of an object entering his anus and it makes you think about anal rape - well, I decline to join you in those thoughts."
You are quite wrong. The joke is: "I would recommend not dropping anything when you're near it." That implies non-consent to sex. That's the point of the drop-the-soap prison rape idea, that by bending over, you make yourself an easy target. You can be raped. How can you understand it any other way?
I linked to Urban Dictionary in the post. I'll copy that to make it quite clear: "Don't drop the soap! 1. A remark made to someone being hauled off to jail, particularly someone you dislike. Once in jail, you imply that if the person (a male) drops a bar of soap in the shower, they will be forced to bend over and retrieve it. Thus, with there buttocks spread and in clear sight, will be subject to anal rape by a fellow inmate."
People have anal sex voluntarily, but where there is consent, there's no need for a warning about doing something that might expose you to the action of another person.
You've been listening to the jokes all these years and not understanding what the laughing is about? The laughing is about the idea that a man would be subjected to penetration by another man. It's generally considered funny because the victims are prisoners and therefore distanced from you and because they are men and as with all the kicking-in-the-balls humor, it's considered funny to hurt men. All of that is pretty despicable AND old-fashioned.
How about just noting that Colbert is an asshole?
"But again, the same goes for your Volt/Leaf/Fit/&c. owner. Why single out Tesla?"
I'm not. Until the recharge rate is reduced by 10x, all of them are boutique vehicles.
Ann: You are quite wrong. The joke is: "I would recommend not dropping anything when you're near it." That implies non-consent to sex. That's the point of the drop-the-soap prison rape idea, that by bending over, you make yourself an easy target. You can be raped. How can you understand it any other way?
You are seriously overthinking this. Might as well make that two of us!
First, the charger snake is an inanimate object and unless we have reached AI sentience it is not capable of rape any more than the factory machine that dismembers a worker is capable of murder. I suppose if there was a human being controlling the device or the victim then a rape (or murder) has occurred, but that blame goes to the other human being. Last I checked machines were not getting off on raping people outside of science fiction and Japan. (Oddly, in Japan there is a 50/50 chance that the victim will enjoy it. Actually, that may be low balling it. Japan is a weird place.)
Second, the advice to not drop the soap with the implication of bending over to pick it up would be good advice if you happened to be around a machine that inserted a cylinder shaped object at about waist level, especially if it was connected to your electrical panel. Not sure why one would take a shower in the garage with the back to the electronics, unless one wants a Darwin Award for the mantle and does not appreciate the sacrifices necessary, but if one does such things for no apparent reason then it makes perfectly good advice. Note that advising the person to not dress provocatively is not good advice, as the charger snake is indifferent to cleveage windows and tight booty. However, walking in the crab walk position is also not recommended, especially for male individuals who do not wish to be gifted with a new access point to their inner anatomy.
Third, there is a thing in comedy where you link up semi-related or non-related concepts for humorous purposes. I think the term is "conceit" but Wikipedia thinks that only relates to poetry. It is the same general idea. The concept of prison rape is being related here to the functioning of a charger snake, to which there are both similarities and differences as previously discussed above. When done properly the absurdity of the comparison opens up many novel avenues of discussion from which mirth may be derived. Shakespeare did something similar with swords and manhoods, as well as other absurd but amusing conceits.
Then again, perhaps Teslas come with rape machines. Hey, he is a supervillain. Can't say he didn't warn you. I wonder what the Prius does while we sleep. Probably embezzles the coins for the tolls booths and buys itself a subscription to Car & Driver. Do those have centerfolds?
Fourth, there is a trope known as "crossing the line twice" where the comedian violates some line of good taste, but goes so over the top with the taboo that it goes from offending to ridiculous (and hopefully funny). Black comedy lives on this. Less dark shows like South Park and Family Guy, and pretty much every film Mel Brooks ever made rely on it heavily. The implication from the author is they do not truly approve of say, having men raped by women until they die, but the concept that several of the men welcome this despite the ultimate end and then accuse the one guy who doesn't like it of being "gay" is pretty darn funny. (That was a Futurama episode. It featured Bea Arthur.)
Out of curiosity, where do you draw the line on humor. Obviously, prison rape is out. How about death, which is a bit more severe? Did the villain in Naked Gun falling to his death and then his corpse getting the humiliation conga make you walk away? How about war? Do you watch Dr. Strangelove and get offended? (SPOILER ALERT) They nuked the entire world!
Look, if you're on a road trip, you need to get out of the car and stretch for a bit every 3-4 hours anyway. Tesla gives you a reason to, that's all. And reducing the recharge rate by 10x .... so you'd have free (OK, again, pre-paid) charges and also three-minute charge times? It must be nice, living in Utopia. You and I don't. The price for unlimited mileage and unbelievably comfortable (and silent!) driving is having to stop for half an hour every few hundred miles. Doesn't seem too steep to me.
Of course, the normal, non-road-trip use of a Tesla is that you take it out in the morning, drive it to work, drive back from work, and plug it in to your own electricity. Which is fine, though (unlike the superchargers) not free. So far the impact on our own electrical bill has been nugatory, and the gas-station stops have been, well, zero.
Ann,
Not to steal Static Ping's most excellent fire, but haven't you ever heard any of the gay-rape jokes that have nothing to do with prison? E.g., "What do you do if you drop your wallet on Polk Street? Kick it over to Van Ness." (This is when Polk was a gay haven, before the Castro.) The inference, just like in the prison "jokes," is that a male behind is an irresistible target, but here it's clad, and presumably in broad daylight, so the effect is much less harsh.
"The price for unlimited mileage and unbelievably comfortable (and silent!) driving is having to stop for half an hour every few hundred miles. Doesn't seem too steep to me."
It's nice you only drive where there are recharging stations and are happy to sit around for half an hour while it charges. Most people can't do this. Boutique car.
Funny jokes are funny. Holocaust jokes, lynching jokes, ER jokes, nun murder jokes, cannibalism jokes, child molestation jokes, rape jokes, prison rape jokes, dead puppy jokes. Bring it on. All of it.
To Hell with your Puritan outrage.
I have sworn eternal enmity against every form of tyrrany over the mind of Man and I reject that self-congratulatory prudery. It's a way for you to imagine yourself above other people who have a better sense of humor than you do.
You have the luxury of living a phenomenally sheltered life for many years, it seems.
Know who makes the most outrageous jokes? Nurses, soldiers, cops, doctors, EMTs, and survivors, who confront some pretty awful things on a regular basis.
You don't get to tell me what I can't mock.
OM,
Bleh. Like I said, this applies only when you are driving long distances. A Tesla (ours, anyway) is rated for 270 miles between charges. A Leaf is more like 70 miles -- and, again, no one is hating on Nissan for accepting Federal tax credits for the Leaf. Nah, just the Tesla, because, rich people!
We "only drive where there are recharging stations" because we live here. We sit around waiting for it to recharge only when we are on the road, which so far has been all of once. The ordinary procedure, as I've said above, is that my husband takes it to work (a matter of six miles or so), takes it back from work, plugs it in, and restarts the next day with batteries full.
I'm not hating on any of them Michelle. I'm just saying you really have to want an electric car to look past their shortcomings of range and recharge times. For example, I'm going up north camping next month and there's nowhere to recharge. An electric car for me would have to be an additional car that I could use under certain conditions only. I don't have the wallet nor the garage space for another car. 99% of Americans are in the same boat. There's a reason they aren't popular.
it's considered funny to hurt men. All of that is pretty despicable AND old-fashioned.
That's rich, coming from someone who likes to insult men, and is perfectly fine with forcing them to pay for other people's children.
I could make it to Boston, I guess, in a Tesla. That's where I usually drive to. Stop once on my way to NYC. Long road trips I take the Canyonero anyway, so maybe I should look at the Tesla.
huhm it looks like Colbert had one night of ok ratings in "The Demo" (18-49 yr olds) and by the second night, into the crapper, like Old Dave crappy numbers (vs young Dave crappy numbers) Colbert just isn't that funny.
Gahrie said...
I really get a kick out of the contortions true believers go through to justify their fetish.
I'm not an eviro wacko or a climate change alarmist. I just recognize that I rarely drive anywhere close to 300 miles in a day, and think a 5 passenger, 4 door car that goes from 0-60 in 3.2 seconds that I can potentially drive FOR FREE is awesome.
That 300 mile number drops off to over half when the air conditioner is turned on, or the heater, or if the temperature is over 85 even with the air conditioner turned off.
Free? Get serious. Physics does not allow you to get anything free. The constants in the equation are all negative.
Colbert is funny to a skinny snaky prehensile market that the Networks were hoping would enter the larger backside of the mainstream, to the mainstream's surprised pleasure.
The Networks forgot the Lube.
I am Laslo.
That 300 mile number drops off to over half when the air conditioner is turned on, or the heater, or if the temperature is over 85 even with the air conditioner turned off.
Well there's a spanner in the works.
Motor Trend posted this after completing its lengthy test drive in the Tesla Model S: "The total range—adding the unused 4 miles—would be 238. Yes, 238 is 11 percent short of 265. Moreover, it was done while being very stingy with performance (for the most part). Is that 265 actually valid? If you drive predominately at highway speeds, then probably not. But were we to have included more medium-speed roads (long stretches at 45-50 miles per hour) well, possibly."
Motor Trend operated the Model S with the A/C in the off position, but had the vehicle's ventilation system turned on. Cruise control was set at 65 mph and the crew set the Model S' air suspension to its lowest setting.
So if I need A/C, I can't make it to Boston on a charge? Non starter.
"That 300 mile number drops off to over half when the air conditioner is turned on, or the heater, "
OR. THE. HEATER. I'm sorry, but you need the heater for 4 to 5 months a year in Wisconsin. Other places, not as much, but a full electric car can not do what an internal combustion engine can do. Not even close. In the future, things may be different.
Hell, forget comfort. You need the heater just to clear the windshield of ice. The windshield's important.
Again, I'm in Oregon. Ice is a marginal problem here. (OK, some years back we had a snowstorm bad enough that we couldn't get out of our own driveway for four days. But that was a serious outlier, and one that internal combustion engines -- the only kind we had at the time, btw -- did absolutely nothing about.) Heat we've plenty of, but (again) superchargers are close enough that you can set the A/C to 68 degrees and get to where you're going and back. Forgetting roadtrips for the moment, we make runs to Portland, to Newport, to Corvallis, to Eugene. All of those -- there and back -- are possible on a single charge.
Our main weather problem here is rain, and while our Tesla hasn't had to deal with much of that yet, I imagine that being the most unflippable car in the known universe probably will not hurt.
Free? Get serious. Physics does not allow you to get anything free.
Free as in I'm not paying for it.
I've never understood the Musk/TESLA hate, but it doesn't really matter at this point.
The recent advances in lithium ion batteries are just the icing on the cake.
"Again, I'm in Oregon."
I get it. You like your car.
And, living in Oregon, you don't understand you need the heater to clear ice from the windshield, not the driveway. Everyday, all winter, you need the heater to see the road.
"The recent advances in lithium ion batteries are just the icing on the cake."
I just bought a lithium battery for jump starting the car. Hope it works when I need it.
I've never understood the Musk/TESLA hate, "
I have nothing but respect for Musk. I think what he is doing with Space X is momentous. Doesn't mean I have to buy into the electric car hype.
You've been listening to the jokes all these years and not understanding what the laughing is about?
Oh, not nearly as many years as you have, Ma'am.
The laughing is about the idea that a man would be subjected to penetration by another man.
And by "another man" you mean in this instance "robot car". Suppose a Tesla got sent to prison for raping Stephen Colbert. Would it be cruel and unusual to give it the electric chair, since it already has electric chairs? How do you think a rape conviction would affect a car's resale value? I bet it would have to serve its whole sentence - you could be sure that given the same circumstances it would commit the same crime, and it would be totally unrepentant during its parole hearings.
Because it's a fucking car. (Literally.)
BTW I think the discrimination embodied in your commenting system is problematic for posts like these, because the robot car isn't able to give its side of the story.
Original Mike,
And, living in Oregon, you don't understand you need the heater to clear ice from the windshield, not the driveway. Everyday, all winter, you need the heater to see the road.
I remember all of this, because I grew up in upstate NY. I moved to OR five years ago. "Don't understand," pfeh.
You are free to dis as you like, but I think I have a decent position. If you live in the Pacific Northwest and have the money, buy a Tesla. You will have very good grid (= supercharger) support. You will have grid power that's mostly not coal. You won't have to deal with Tesla's main difficulties, which mostly center around snow and really cold temperatures.
Oh, of course you'll be labeled a "smug, smarmy" elitist environmentalist. The humble Fit EV owner won't, because to be an elitist environmentalist you need lots of money.
Free as in I'm not paying for it.
As in physics so in economics.
Somebody is. Nothing is free.
Here is the point where an electric vehicle will be successful.
When it can do everything a Ford F150 can do now with a recharge time comparable to gassing up.
Again.
An electric car as they stand now are just novelties.
(OK, some years back we had a snowstorm bad enough that we couldn't get out of our own driveway for four days. But that was a serious outlier, and one that internal combustion engines -- the only kind we had at the time, btw -- did absolutely nothing about.)
Ummm. My AWD BMW that gets over 500 miles on a tank of gas handles anything Vermont throws at it.
"Oh, of course you'll be labeled a "smug, smarmy" elitist environmentalist. "
I'm not labeling you that. I think it's great your car works for you. My point is that they do not work for 99% of the country. And I do get a little testy with the actual smug, smarmy elitist environmentalists ignoring reality and trying to shove electric cars down our throat.
She's in Oregon. Anywhere along the I-5 corridor they hold smug, smarmy elitists in high regard there.
The only downside is she cannot possibly be as smug and smarmy as all the environmental elitists around her! The competition is insane. Literally.
tim in vermont,
They don't plow anything but main arteries in Salem, so we're talking a couple feet of snow and a steep driveway. After shoveling the driveway, we risked it on the fourth day, only to almost come to grief at the intersection with the main street, which had piles of snow more than three feet high where the plow had gone past.
The first day of the storm was absolutely surreal, with footage of cars sliding down Commercial (the main drag in our part of Salem) out of control.
Salem very rarely gets storms that bad, which is why there's no preparation for them. If VT is anything like NY, you'd have plows and salters out immediately in a case like this, and wouldn't need to literally dig your way out (not that your AWD BMW couldn't).
Jason,
FWIW, the people in Salem are not especially "smug and smarmy"; for that you need Portland, or Eugene. Actually, I've found them extremely pleasant, much nicer than (say) the Bay Area, where I spent a good fraction of my life, at school and beyond. Relative to the rest of the Western part of the state, Salem is conservative and pretty religious. Hey, we even have Russian Old Believers here, in some numbers. I thought they existed only in Khovantschina. (The Eastern part of the state is another thing entirely, but much more sparsely populated. Think border of Idaho, only stretching over a couple hundred miles.)
Anyway, to reiterate: We didn't get the Tesla to impress anyone with our concern for the planet. We got it because it's a seriously cool piece of technology. As far as external appearance goes, it's much less distinctive than, say, a Prius. On our roadtrip I kept looking out for other Teslas, and mistaking other cars for them, generally the Elantra, though some Hondas also come close. The real "tell" is the width, because Teslas have to be wider as well as longer than other cars, to accommodate the huge raft of batteries.
Original Mike,
That's what I said. For us, here, it's an ideal car. (NB, the Pacific Northwest itself isn't remotely 1% of the country, and there are a lot of Teslas in CA, as we saw when we were there. Obviously, that's where the car is built, in Fremont, and superchargers are plentiful throughout CA.)
I know that the Pacific Northwest isn't a typical environment; that Tesla superchargers aren't (yet) evenly distributed across the country; that cold weather tends to screw up the works somewhat; all of this stuff. My point is just that, for us, it works, very well. And to be branded smug, smarmy environmental elitists when we are just using a technology fitted to our needs, while the guy who buys (say) an Audi R8 gets a pass, is unjust.
I just ruled it out because I don't want to be down a car on a -10 F morning, which are quite common here every winter, or a -25 morning, which happens. I just took the 3 hours on a charge as a real number, not a coddled test. What about crossing mountains?
I have seen one in Vermont with California plates. I am now thinking that guy had a lot of time to make the trip.
If it could do 250 miles at highway speeds, crossing mountains, regardless of weather, I would definitely consider it, as the lease is up on my similarly priced car in the spring. As it is, I think I will be waiting for the next breakthrough in energy storage that can compete with gas even with a thumb on the scale in its favor for being clean.
I think I am going to buy a Prius as a runabout though. They seem to have come up with the best solution for now. Is Tesla planning a smaller car that maybe could go further, and compete roughly with Prius on price? I have been looking at hybrids, and there is a reason you see so many Priuses.
Musk said the new sedan would have a range of about 200 miles, for a price various cited as $30,000 or less than $40,000--which may reflect the effect of the $7,500 Federal yada yada...
So 60 % of 200 = real world range. Prius will remain #1, my prediction. If they ever come up with an LNG version, and distribution network for the fuel, I think there would be a clean air game changer. The knock on Natural Gas has always been energy density, like batteries, but if they can make a more efficient car, like the Prius, maybe people can live with the lower energy density.
Here is the point where an electric vehicle will be successful.
When it can do everything a Ford F150
Why an F150? Most gas powered card can't do everything a F150 does....
Because they outsell any other vehicle.
tim in vermont,
Our roadtrip involved rather a lot of mountains, actually. Not monstrous (we stopped at Mt. Shasta to recharge, but we didn't actually go all the way up it), but all the same some serious climbs. I'd send you a height-indicated view of our trip if I thought it would do any good.
I have seen one in Vermont with California plates. I am now thinking that guy had a lot of time to make the trip.
We ran into a Quebecois couple in Gilroy, charging up alongside us. Now they might have had some difficulty getting there. I think CA to VT was doable on the supercharger map, though with difficulty.
Oh, obviously Prius is #1. Much cheaper, much more visible. Though they've lost their coveted HOV stickers in CA. Only the plug-in hybrid Prius rates them now.
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