As the old song goes: We've got to keep him in Madtown.
Last February, I said: "Who knew that line ['We've got to keep him in Madtown'] would within 3 years turn into a limitation on his career? And who else do we have for Wisconsin? I'm not pushing him for President. I'm just glad he's helping us here with our problems."
Welcome back home, Governor.
UPDATE: He's suspending his campaign and also: "I encourage other Republican presidential candidates to consider doing the same so that the voters can focus on a limited number of candidates who can offer a positive conservative alternative to the current frontrunner."
He began with condolences to the family of Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Patrick Crooks, which was the first I had heard that Justice Crooks had died. We already knew that Crooks was not running for reelection as his term ends after this year. Now, instead of an election between newcomers, Governor Walker can make an appointment, a conservative who will face the election as an incumbent.
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel says:
[Justice Crooks] did come to work on Monday for an administrative hearing but excused himself before the session was over and was later found dead in his chambers. Police and paramedics arrived at the court.
Three people had announced they were running for Crooks' position, prior to his formal announcement of his retirement. They include Milwaukee Circuit Judge Joseph Donald, Court of Appeals judges Joann Kloppenberg and Rebecca Bradley. Gov. Scott Walker could appoint someone to Crooks' seat prior to the spring election, or choose to leave it open.
Crooks was often regarded as a swing or more independent vote on the frequently divided court, voting with the liberal justices more often than Justice David Prosser, who also sided with both liberal and conservative factions depending on the case.
१३५ टिप्पण्या:
I'm very disappointed about this. Walker would have made an excellent President. He got lost in the media hype around Trump.
Scott can now focus on further improving the Badger State. Cheeseheads celebrate.
"Walker would have made an excellent President."
He'll be back. Let's see what he accomplishes for Wisconsin.
It's a bummer, but not unexpected, once Trump sucked most of the oxygen out of the room.
I do think thinning the field is a good thing -- I'm just sorry Walker is being voted off the island so early.
So long, Gov. Walker (from the national stage) - we hardly knew ye.
Secretary of Labor
I wonder if his wife made him become a squish about immigration laws.
Your gain is my loss. Too bad!
The Republican primary fight is like roller derby. Skating along, then whacked from nowhere and on your ass and out of it.
So we've got a bunch of talkers left; no one who has actually done anything in a governmental role. Yay for politics! America deserves what it gets.
"He got lost in the media hype around Trump."
Likely that was done on purpose, as he would have been the best President of any of the candidates, D and R.
And yet Jeb Bush is still hanging around....this is ridiculous.
"Let's see what he accomplishes for Wisconsin."
I hope he does accomplish more, thereby giving him more credibility next time. He just wasn't loud and showy enough. It's not about competence.
We could have done worse, and we may.
He's a good man whose career is a long way from over.
He made a good withdrawal speech: short and to-the-point. I hope several of his fellow "also-ran" candidates heard his call to clear the field. Are you listening, Patacki, Jindal, Graham, Santorum, Huckabee, Kasich, and Paul? If only Trump and Carson would clear out too . . .
Birches, as disappointed as I am that Walker is out of the running (he was my tie for favorite before the Trump frenzy began), I'm actually glad that so many of the GOP choices are not part of the government, and that many of the ones who are were not part of the cabal in D.C.
I think non-pols running for President is a feature, not a bug. If you think otherwise, I must respectfully disagree. However, I would like to know - is there a reason you feel political experience is necessary to be an effective president? Not asking this question to slam you back with a rebuttal - I'm interested in your point of view.
Boo-hoo! That big, bad Donald was mean to poor little Scotty.
All the other candidates should do like Scotty and run home to their mommies. For the good of the country, no less!
What a colossal dose of sour grapes from a classless clown. Welcome back home, indeed.
It was his first trip on the national stage, he will have more chances down the road a bit.
@Meade 4:55
From your lips to Fiorina's ears!
Birches said...
So we've got a bunch of talkers left; no one who has actually done anything in a governmental role
Bush and Huckabee were Governors, Kasich and Christie are Governors.
Wow. I'm really shocked.
The only serious, plausible candidates left are Bush, Rubio, Fiorina, Kasich and Christie. I like Rand Paul but he has no hope of winning the nomination or the general. Rand Paul at least raises interesting points and forces other candidates to think and debate.
Everyone else should drop out.
Secretary of Labor
I'm afraid Wisconsin Republican Governors are predestined for the Secretary of HHS slot.
@ Kyzernick
It's a lot easier to say what you can accomplish without really knowing how the soul sucking bureaucracy of the Federal Government works. As much as I don't like the vast apparatus that exists right now, I don't want some President to come in and Executive Order their way to making the world as he/she sees fit. Walker effectively took out a large hurdle to getting things done in Wisconsin, which means he understands. I don't think that Carly Fiorina or Ben Carson or Donald Trump understand any of this. I think they'd be paralyzed and end up relying on Congressional leaders to do all the dirty work, a la Obama.
But I did lose some of my enthusiasm for him after he went to bat for the Milwaukee Bucks new arena. Crony Capitalism. Not good.
Bush and Huckabee were Governors.
Ha! You really think either of them are going to win the nomination? Sometimes I wonder if Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum are just elaborate mobys.
I probably move on to Kasich. Chris Christie is electoral college suicide.
Apparently Crooks had been ill for some time now, so says a lawyer I know, and it was no surprise that he passed. Kudos to him for service to the people of this Great State.
so all the other scary guys/gal should drop out -- the three Cs and H(F)uckabee. Christie can stay. Jeb gets life support from the establishment. Trump can keep on trumping.
Good riddance to a candidate who did not respect a woman's right to her own body. Otherwise, he had a decent message.
Packers, now Walker. Shaping up like a good week.
"I encourage other Republican presidential candidates to consider doing the same so that the voters can focus on a limited number of candidates who can offer a positive conservative alternative to the current frontrunner."
Except for the implied dig at Trump, this is a good way to go out. Trump isn't the problem -- the problem is the fragmentation of the vote among too many candidates. Trump is merely filling that void.
But, Walker should take one more step -- endorse somebody and throw whatever weight he has behind that person.
Huckabee, Paul, Pataki, Santorum, Graham, Jindal -- should be the next to go.
Crowd's gotta thin out, and as Walker was a plausible candidate, this should shift some support to the other plausibles.
The lesson Walker teaches is that you have to bone up before jumping in, and be ready for the rough and tumble from day one. Only Trump can get away with sweeping, unsupported generalities and easily disproved facts. But Walker was trying to appeal to a discerning electorate, and had to maintain their interest. It's easy to lose momentum.
I'm liking Kasich, as he seems to be a consrervative with actual intentions and capabilities if getting things done rather than posing. His experience governing a large, diverse state and playing a key role in Congress are features, not bugs, but I suspect today's GOP would rather the primal scream of the bomb throwing outsider. It won't win elections or get anything done, but it will feel good.
I am disappoint. I was looking forward to voting for a capable, relatively quiet Midwesterner.
I liked him (from afar).
The debate last week was like a freak show - thanks to Donald. HE's the one who has to get out so that we can focus on more serious candidates. But narcissists never see their own limitations.
And I worry that the more the candidates beat each other up, the more their words will be used against the eventual candidate. United front isn't such a bad idea - as long as it isn't behind Trump or Jeb.
Or Huckabee, or ...
Carley!
How about Carley vs. Clinton for Pres?
Hint--Hillary would kill her, and not on merit. (Please excuse the violent metaphor, but it's what came to mind naturally.)
Carly vs. Hillary?
Two robotic chicks!
At least he didn't make a memorable gaffe like Perry last time. Perry ran a much better, more thoughtful campaign this this time and got nowhere. Walker will be back.
Which candidate will pick up Walker's supporter?
@bbkingfish said...
Boo-hoo! That big, bad Donald was mean to poor little Scotty.
His name is Scott not Scotty, but everyone can play when we turn on Donny.
God help us if we have to go through 8 more years with a narcissist-in-charge.
"He'll be back. Let's see what he accomplishes for Wisconsin."
Yes, it wasn't his year. The anger in the electorate is palpable and he is too calm and low-key. Immigration was a weak spot for him, too.
"he seems to be a consrervative with actual intentions and capabilities "
Kasich has a couple of problems. One is an anger problem which is apparent when he is frustrated. The other is a bad haircut.
Why garage, we assumed his support came from you and Wisconsin employee unions. Now he's able to focus on you and not the election.
Liz Mair tweeted that Walker exiting now helps him avoid a bad story coming out. I find that hard to believe. Walker has never afoul of the law and would never associate with any bad actirs. He's an Eagle Scout!
Scott Walker did that with dignity.
The appropriate response should be, "Thank you, and welcome back Governor!"
I'm sorry (Walker was my pick), but not altogether surprised. Still, I would've thought that Santorum, Huckabee, Pataki, and Jindal would've exited sooner.
Maybe he can start a reality show and carry it over into his politics so when he next runs everyone will know him as an entertainer first. That seems to be where we are headed.
He had been my personal pick as the best candidate. I felt even better about my having been on his side with his comment about our needing a strong alternative to "the current front-runner."
I think this makes Jeb Bush, or perhaps even Mitt Romney, more likely. Big problem with Jeb is that he cannot pick Marco Rubio as his Veep, since they are both from the same state. And Rubio's senate term expires in 2017. He's not running for re-election to his seat in the senate. Rubio will either be in the White House, or back home in Florida. The latter would be a shame. I like Cruz, Rubio and Paul in the U.S. Senate. The Rubio and Paul seats would be close calls electorally with no incumbent. We need those seats. We also need the White House back.
Rubio/Fiorina for me, given the current field.
Say what you like, or hate about the man, he does have superb political instincts. He realizes that it is not his time to make a viable run. It might never be his time. I think he could live with that. But he is young, and one never knows...
Tacitus
There goes garage mahal's nascent career as heckler-in-chief.
Bush and Huckabee were Governors.
Ha! You really think either of them are going to win the nomination?
I think Bush has as good a chance as anyone including The Donald, and Huckabee is more likely than Walker.
garage mahal said...
Which candidate will pick up Walker's supporter?
Probably Rubo and Fiorina
Carly is like Walker was a few months ago, when he seemed to be on top of the Mountain of No One Gives a Damn, for a Hot Minute. He couldn't Lose. Except.
Conservatives, take your pick: Trump or Bush.
I am Laslo.
I think Bush has as good a chance as anyone including The Donald, and Huckabee is more likely than Walker.
Disagree. There isn't much the Woodrow can do to make people like him. I dislike him. Too much baggage and he gave too many people the political finger. The only way he wins is if he's the last one standing. But hey, that may be the plan.
"I was looking forward to voting for a capable, relatively quiet Midwesterner."
Do I detect the beginnings of a "Draft Meade!" movement? Meade, if nominated, will you run? You can put the kibosh on this whole thing now, but if you wait too late the will of the people will become irresistible.
Ironically, his ego isn't so big that he goes millions into debt tilting at a windmill.
"Do I detect the beginnings of a "Draft Meade!" movement? "
I couldn't vote for Meade: the First Lady would be too Feisty.
I am Laslo.
chickelit said...
The only way [Bush] wins is if he's the last one standing.
Roughly half of each party values "electability" over anything else. Those people haven't made up their minds yet, and Bush is the only candidate who currently meets the criteria (a couple of others can join him).
"no one who has actually done anything in a governmental role"
Except Kasich and Christie and that other guy, the most effective governor ever in the most important state, what's his name . . .
@MDT: "Rubio/Fiorina"
You and David Brooks: it's a done deal!
"Meade, if nominated, will you run?"
Yes! There will be growth in the spring!
Honestly the moment he crowed about banning Planned Parenthood he was doomed.
Walker made some comments about feeling the need to spearhead the fight against Trump. If he does that - possibly more miserable advice from the GOPe consultants he hired - he will be permanently blemished.
It would be interesting to see how he can deride negativity on the one hand and attack Trump on the other hand.
"Crooks was often regarded as a swing or more independent vote on the frequently divided court, voting with the liberal justices more often than Justice David Prosser, who also sided with both liberal and conservative factions depending on the case."
This is one badly written sentence. So there were 2 swing votes on the court, and Crooks was the more liberal of the two?
The non-Trump candidates don't have the right stuff, if they did, they would have focused the debate narrative on relevant issues.
Christie should be next. His whole appeal was being the loudmouth New Yorker who would yell at liberals and at the government and make things better. But Trump plays that role way better than Christie does.
Rand Paul needs to stay in the race, because the Republican Party needs to engage with his issues. Even if they ultimately reject some of his stands, that should be a conscious choice. Though he missed an opportunity to say he'd put Ayn Rand on the $10 bill.
Santorum should go - his appeal is the same as Carson's and Huckabee's (except he'll get a few Catholics who wouldn't vote for a Prod), and he doesn't have the poll numbers of Carson or the executive experience of Huckabee.
Jeb should go. His experience is more than a decade ago, and the Republican Party isn't the Bush Family Estate.
Fiorina should stay only because some attacks on Hilary are much more effective coming from a woman. But otherwise, she ran HP into the ground, and underperformed when running for Senate in California.
Graham, Pataki, Jindal, are going nowhere, and should just go home. At least Jindal has a chance again in 2020 or 2024.
Huckabee is probably waiting for Carson to flame out, which may be a worthwhile strategy.
Now if only Kasich, Christie, Jhindal, Huckabee Paul and Grahame would leave.
Pataki should stay since no one knows he's running anyhow.
Huckabee won't drop out anytime soon. Every four years he gets to pretend he is an important person and that people care what he has to say. Must be quite a rush.
Walker and Priebus and Thompson seem very feminine.
Presumably in a so-called purple, Daschle state that's ok. But, real cons don't roll that way.
Ironically, the Harley only makes him look like more of a pussy.
PBandJ_LeDouanier channels garage mahal.
I think Walker actually thinks he's some sort of tough guy:
"Assassins are after me, but they didn't get me because I ride a motorcycle and I'm an Eagle Scout. And, the Kochs, et. al. think I'm the bee's knees. Therefore, I should be the POTUS"
Bless his heart.
God will always be a Walker fan.
Meade said...
God will always be a Walker fan.
God is fickle. Last year it was Russell Wilson. Lucifer is much more steadfast for Belichick and Brady and Cheney.
"God will always be a Walker fan."
Is this comment inspired by the Rodgers mocking of Wilson? If so, Sheesh! How quickly y'all forget that Wilson put the WI in UW.
"Wilson put the WI in UW."
You don't know Watt you're talking about.
Walker didn't have the Wisconsin media running interference for him. It didn't take long to be exposed for the know-nothing, dumbass that he is. Too bad he didn't go all the way and resign.
Clearly WAtt would have been better at the other UW, where he could put the WA in WA.
"Honestly the moment he crowed about banning Planned Parenthood he was doomed."
Yeah, that certainly would disqualify you with the Republican base. Do you understand how this process works?
No, 'twas immigration that doomed young Scott. He was seriously clueless about the shifting zeitgeist and Trump flattened him without even noticing him.
I'm not happy about this news, but the fact that Scott Walker will now remain as Wisconsin's governor to torment garage mahal is the silver lining in this cloud.
Chuck wrote: I'm not happy about this news, but the fact that Scott Walker will now remain as Wisconsin's governor to torment garage mahal is the silver lining in this cloud.
Garage has already tuned Walker out. He's preparing his fluffer technique for Feingold.
Wilson was with WI for a year, a flash in the pan.
The only bright spot in the Bielema years.
Sorta like Rodgers will be the only bright spot in the Walker years.
By the way, garage mahal, I seem to remember a couple of years ago proposing, and you accepting, a twenty dollar wager on who would be out of office first, Scott Walker or Eric Holder. I win. Please make your payment to the National Rifle Association here.
Mark
The only bright spot in the Bielema years.
The Bulimia years were lean ones.
I was expecting more from Walker (based off all the hype from Althouse) and he was an awful candidate.
He went from front runner to * in a matter of months.
What a disappointment.
Maybe he can reach his goal of jobs in Wisconsin-but I doubt it.
Lets face it college educated professionals are fleeing that state. I meet them daily coming to Mass-where we are the creativy economy and Wisconsin is the shit state economy.
Wisconsin employees stay in the same job their entire life-meaning grossie employees. I know this because my family, their friends, and everyone they know, around the state, never leave their jobs.
tits
He went from front runner to * in a matter of months.
To be honest, so did Hillary. So too, may Trump.
"Wilson was with WI for a year, a flash in the pan."
The truth is that Seattle seems predisposed to agreeing with Rodgers. Godless libs and a 0-2 record don't add up to a lot of interest in blather about how God cares about pigskin (cloven hooves!) being tossed around.
Seattleites are terrible fans. When things are good, idiots pay way above actual ticket prices to show up and be obnoxious, uninformed drunks who annoy the dedicated, longtime season ticket holders.
The, relatively, poor folks in WI are much better fans.
Well, Clinton's Trump strategy has now claimed two good Republicans. God help us if it saddles us with a Trump Presidency, but that would be in keeping with Hillary!'s strategic track record.
Chickelit, I am sure you have also been giggling at how things are for him in Arkansas. #karma is a bitch.
Walker was the best politician in the GOP and likely would win, until the Trump communication blitz started and had the same effect as Hiroshima had on Imperiaal Japan's plans.
Trump is not a GOP politician. He is a Napoleonic figure. Enjoy.
Re: Walker
The November GOP debate is in Wisconsin and Walkers polling would have him out of the top 10 unless something highly unusual happened.
His WI political career required him to avoid it, and letting that inevitability get closer would not be good.
#unintimidated lol. Blew through millions in a short time for someone fiscally responsible.
I think the problem for a governor is the need to recruit a good campaign staff. That's why I thought Perry would do a lot better -- he had 4 years to identify the best people. Walker's staff sucked.
@ Birches:
I was late seeing your reply. I must admit, I see your point.
I still prefer someone with true outsider status, meaning outside of govt altogether, but you are correct that navigating the dank waters of the federal government would be a daunting task for someone without govt experience. I do not think it's impossible, however, and I think a talented negotiator could do it as well as a seasoned pol, given a little time to learn the ropes.
Mainly, I'm just saddened that your point is valid, because it truly means the mess in DC is going to persist for a long, long time.
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.
"Walker's timing is good. Word is he just avoided getting tied to a very bad story that could well have been coming." — Liz Mair
Walker reminds me of the minor league player who gets called up to the Majors. After a week, he emails mommy, "Get my room ready, mom. They throw 98mph and then they throw curveballs!" You cheeseheads are so fucking provincial. Anyone w/ an ounce of objectivity knew Walker is not more than a governor of a second tier state. Any movement upward would be the Peter Principle personified.
I wonder if Spinelli has ever been happy anywhere that he's lived. The two places that he's an expert on are rural Wisconsin and the Boston metro area. Also, nobody does scatology better than Nick.
Walker disappointed me in the same way that Ryan disappointed me. I thought Ryan would clean Biden's clock and instead, and very much to my surprise, Biden cleaned Ryan's clock. Same dynamic obtained, more or less, with Walker and his GOP opponents. They were both soft. I mistook their softness for quiet confidence and competence. But it turned out that their softness was merely softness. Nice guys, smart, but ... weaklings. Too bad.
The thing is Spinelli -- when you so callously insult an entire state, you insult everyone who ever lived there which includes me.
Where the fuck did your people (mother, father, brother, sisters) grow up so that I may write internet screeds insulting them as well.
Huh?
LOL! You're just like Inga, chick. So protective of Cheddarland. We grew up in Ct. And, I have enough self esteem and been around enough that you can say ANYTHING you want about the Nutmeg state. I'll probably laugh..if you're funny. You can be funny, but of late you've just been angry. I've also lived in NJ, which I liked but is ripe for ball busting. I went to school in PA. which was OK. Lived in KC and Chicago and liked both places, but fire away. I won't take any comments about anywhere I've lived personally. And, as you know, I spend winters in your neck. One of my favorite places in the US. Fire away!
^ Tag-team or actual conflict?
Inquiring minds are interested to know.
rc, No it's real. Some Cheesers get really upset when you say anything bad about WI. The thing is, my wife and kids were born and raised in WI. They have no problem w/ me busting on WI. But, taking WI. aside, the Midwest doesn't have a ball busting tradition like where I grew up in the northeast.
I'm thinking tag-team.
(And, yes, I did write that ^ comment after reading your 11:37, ndspinelli.)
Seattleites are terrible fans. When things are good, idiots pay way above actual ticket prices to show up and be obnoxious, uninformed drunks who annoy the dedicated, longtime season ticket holders.
Puget Soundian here; can confirm. In my experience most of the people shrieking 12TH MAN!!!! 12TH MAN!!!!!! in the brightest plumage are tech workers who arrived in Seattle nine minutes ago.
I miss the old school satin-jackets Hawks fans I grew up with.
It's a little inside baseball, but when he hired Brad Dayspring for his campaign, I wrote him off. Terrible judgment.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/02/walker-for-president-effort-hires-another-controversial-anti-conservative-in-brad-dayspring/
At the end of the day, it's not good enough to be like most everyday, normal people. That's the truth of it, and make no mistake about it, unless normal people have abandoned such a notion.
Which they have.
Walker didn't realize why he was topping polls early. He thought the nation wanted a confident pol who could advance the "conservative" agenda and slide by with a wishy washy position on immigration. He hired the best and brightest DC insiders. He kept it low key and dismissed the crazy guy Trump and went after his supporters as stupid, because that is what his handlers told him to do. He just didn't get it.
Walker topped the polls early because we thought he had balls. We thought he would go to DC and burn the place down like he did in WI where he took out the most destructive political force in the state. He ruthlessly destroyed the unions. We need someone to go to DC and take the influence peddlers out. Everyone can see that the DC money team owns both parties and the banks, insurance companies, and large conglomerates like GE and Boeing get everything they want while the rest of us get screwed. He campaigned as a squish trying to mollify the donor class. That wont cut it this time.
I am and have going with Rubio from the get go, he's the best "natural" candidate on either side and very knowledgeable on the issues. Add in he is hispanic & young, what's not to like?
james conrad said...
Rubio .... what's not to like?
Amnesty.
Yes. Amnesty. And gullibility. He went to Washington and immediately got in bed with The Prince of Darkness, Chuck Schumer.
Well, even RR got suckered by the Dems on immigration in the 1980's. I think Rubio learned from that mistake, immigration is a big problem and deporting millions of people as Trump wants to do just won't work. Many of the illegals have children who were born here and are American citizens, you can't deport them so you want to deport their parents? Good luck with that. The only answer i see is, seal the border which was promised back in the 1980's to Reagan but, it just never happened.
Scott Walker is finished politically. His declaration of war on Trump was disgraceful. He flip-flopped around like a small mouth at the end of Trump's amnesty line. Hey Scott, show us your signature on the Pledge!
Told you so. Scott Walker was always a bad candidate.
I don't agree with the idea that an "outsider" candidate is better than an "insider" (or "Beltway" or "experienced" type). In a way, Obama was our most "outsider" president in recent memory--he'd only been in the Senate four years when he took office, and accordingly he had to rely on a lot of "insiders" on his staff and as congressional allies to get things done, as they were the ones who knew how things worked in Washington. Even if say Ben Carson took office and decided to put other "outsiders" in charge of Cabinet departments or in White House staff positions, those outsiders would need to rely more heavily on their own subordinates who would be insiders. That, and he'd either have to depend on Boehner and McConnell a lot more.
The argument against insiders is that Washington seems to not work very well, and a lot of insiders seem corrupt. But it makes more sense to consider that an insider may have a better idea of why Washington doesn't work so well, and how to get things accomplished there.
@JAC 10:33 pm
Read the Liz Phair article and tweets. Is she trying to not get hired!?
Let me tell you how stupid my former boss was....and note how I, a social media consultant, use the social media #lackofinsight
Political pros will have a lot to look back on in this after this cycle. I'm starting to think that the smart move this year would have been to wait until after the first set of debates to jump in; Badger Union Bitches notwithstanding, Walker had broad appeal to the middle and his biggest blessing was his enemies. His biggest problem was, of course, money and, with it, manpower.
Hindsight it 20/20, but Trump's antics have muddied the waters so much that in the end the Republican nomination may just go to the candidate who has enough resources to stay afloat through the deluge of sewage. God help us, that might be Jeb Bush. Unfortunately, anyone swept away will have the taint of "already lost" so barring some kind of anachronistic Convention deal, he's what the Republicans will be stuck with.
What makes this cycle so interesting is we'll have an example to watch on the Democratic side; Hillary is a truly awful candidate, so Bernie is surging. Biden is a joke, but he's the only "establishment" option out there. Some Democrat is going to jump in late and end up the Democratic nominee by default.
Interesting times.
james conrad said...
Well, even RR got suckered by the Dems on immigration in the 1980's.
If you can't learn from others' mistakes you can't be president. We can't afford someone who will screw up every first decision.
deporting millions of people as Trump wants to do just won't work.
There are many others options, including the status quo. "Not Amnesty" does not equal "Mass Deportation", that's just the left's (nuanced) political marketing. Amnesty is not an option because Dems intend to use it to replace the current American voters and Republicans won't accept that. If Rubio doesn't come out with a credible immigration policy that precludes amnesty he's not going to win, and I say that as someone who would like him to win.
"There are many others options, including the status quo. "Not Amnesty" does not equal "Mass Deportation", that's just the left's (nuanced) political marketing. Amnesty is not an option because Dems intend to use it to replace the current American voters and Republicans won't accept that. If Rubio doesn't come out with a credible immigration policy that precludes amnesty he's not going to win, and I say that as someone who would like him to win."
That's true, but "immigration reform" also does not equal "open borders and everyone stays" either. The problem of illegal immigration is that it is complex--it's not all coming via Mexico to do menial work or live off welfare. We're talking about over 10 million here illegally (actually down over a million since before the recession), almost half coming legally and overstaying, and some who have been here a long time, some who have high skilled jobs and businesses and families, with others who are recent. Any worthwhile solution would need a combination of entry controls, tracking for those coming legally, employer verifications, and reform of the legal immigration system (e.g., prioritizing skilled entrants over those with family ties). In some cases there should be deportations, and in others an amnesty with penalties, depending on the situation. But a blanket "build a wall, round 'em all up" or "let 'em all in and make them citizens" approach is pandering in one direction or another, and promising something that simply will never happen, and anyone suggesting otherwise is playing their supporters for fools.
And by "amnesty" I don't mean a free pass to citizenship--if it is offered at all it should come with fines, back taxes, and a delay in the citizenship process because legal immigrants should not be at a disadvantage simply because they played by the rules. Rubio's statements seem to imply he gets this.
"immigration reform" also does not equal "open borders and everyone stays" either.
Linguistically it doesn't, but politically it does. Even in its most restrictive version it means everyone already here becomes a citizen and we allow in anyone who wants to be eligible for the next amnesty.
"Told you so. Scott Walker was always a bad candidate"
Better than the the three Democrats he ran against.
"Linguistically it doesn't, but politically it does. Even in its most restrictive version it means everyone already here becomes a citizen and we allow in anyone who wants to be eligible for the next amnesty."
I don't see how that follows--in its most restrictive version amnesty could mean far less than that, such as never allowing citizenship for those who entered or overstayed illegally, and it can apply to any small number of people you want (e.g., only applying to those who entered illegally when they were children accompanying their parents). As for allowing anyone else in, that all depends on what measures you put in place to secure the borders and other entry points and to track those who come in on temporary visas. And anyone who thinks a "wall" is all we need is full of it--most illegals aren't even coming in that route. But other measures can be more effective than what we have now.
Now, if you think the problem is that even discussing immigration reform in general will mean everyone caves when they get to Washington and give all illegals full citizenship, then that's why you need to send in leaders you can trust and who make clear what they propose (all the more reason say Trump's lack of specifics should cause concern for anyone who cares about this issue--it's not as though he doesn't have a track record of screwing over people who trusted him and then saying of his creditors "they're bad dudes" as though that absolves him).
With Rubio and even Jeb, I'd want to see what they're proposing and whether it makes sense. Whether they can be trusted to stick to it is a matter of character and we have to make our own judgments on that.
I don't see how that follows--in its most restrictive version amnesty could mean far less than that, such as never allowing citizenship for those who entered or overstayed illegally, and it can apply to any small number of people you want (e.g., only applying to those who entered illegally when they were children accompanying their parents)
This is the difference between linguistics and politics. While theoretically possible the position you note has no advocate. "Reform" means something in politico-speak. In practice everyone who supports "reform" wants (1) illegals here now to become citizens and (2) will oppose and undermine any effort at border control.
As for allowing anyone else in, that all depends on what measures you put in place to secure the borders and other entry points and to track those who come in on temporary visas.
(1) We know from current experience the government will not enforce immigration restrictions no matter what the law says.
(2) Publicized versions of "reform" include easily manipulable "triggers" that allow amnesty and further immigration down the road. These demonstrate what "reformers" goals are and why they cannot be trusted to execute whatever "measures" they claim to support.
I'd want to see what they're proposing and whether it makes sense.
The key issue is to completely remove any "path to citizenship". Any waffling on this will be understood as collusion with Democrats. Rubio (and Bush) should say they won't make any changes to immigration law (except to rescind Obama's executive orders) because Americans aren't satisfied with the options.
I was very sad to see walker bash trump to get in lock step with the republican elite. I expect he feels he has a better chance being on that side than as an outsider. But his statement in halting his campaign has knocked him down quite a few rungs for me. He was my pick for the nomination but that has been tempered a lot for me with these statements.
It looks like he was doing the partys bidding and i am not a big fan of the party right now.
Justice Crooks had the best name -- right up there with Cardinal Sin.
Immigration is the headline issue. But the underlying issue that is bigger is the corruption in DC that is plainly obvious. Everyone knows why Rubio flipped to support amnesty. Everyone knows why Bush raised a shipload of cash. Money runs DC. Hillary and jeb are who the big money wants. They don't really mind sanders if you look closely. The more power is concentrated in DC the more influence they have.
Our founders would have been fighting by now. More immigration is all about suppressing wages and crushing the middle class. Note that the democrats had a chance with full control of the government to pass amnesty. They didn't. They know what will happen. They need "bipartisan" cover to try to make it seem like the country wants it. We don't because it means the US becoming north Mexico. Corruption is the rule in Mexico. Of course that is what the political class wants. It is not what we want.
"Assassins are after me, but they didn't get me because I ride a motorcycle and I'm an Eagle Scout. And, the Kochs, et. al. think I'm the bee's knees. Therefore, I should be the POTUS"
Why the quotation marks?
EMD, because he's a dick. Don't overthink it.
Reading all the way through this thread, I'm seeing all of the shifting. LOL. Reading and noting.
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I see through you.
LMAO.
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As it's turned out, I wasn't wrong when I dropped out of mid-Althouse on account of not trusting any of you, specifically because of all of the demonstrable crap that you all kept/keep trying to sell, as if by sheer force of personality others ought to be forced to no longer be able to distinguish shit from shinola. I call bullshit on that.
Y'all can't force me: Full Stop.
Rcommal, has Guildofcannonballs hacked your account?
Nichevo:
I have posted to Althouse & etc. etc. etc. under two different handles. One is this one. The other one is well known, with regards, to anyone about whom I care a lot (not to mention so, so many about whom I don't, so much, but, well, so it goes: I asked for it on account of not just a few, but several, choices I made more than a decade ago).
I have not been hacked (so far as I know, anyway), Nichevo.
To anticipate (rightly? wrongly?):
Occam's razor would suggest that I, myself, I have posted some thing or some things that either surprised you or, simply, with which you disagreed. (Or, maybe, it's that you've been in touch with people who've been disappointed in and/or with me for a long while, now.)
I'd go with the Occam's "thang," myself:
Not hacked, said what I said, & etc.
Well yeah. Ok so you're kind of a little crazy sounding in some of these recent posts. It's not that I agree or disagree, it's that it's kind of indecipherable gibberish and in that sense it reminds me of the fellow who posts as not William F Buckley and as Guild of cannonballs. Pardon my confusion. Thank you for responding. If you are unwell I wish you a speedy recovery.
I should say that you usually seem sane and probably closer to being right/agreeing with me, than not, hence the surprise.
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