Said Stephen Colbert to Joe Biden on "The Late Show" last night, in a profound and moving interaction between 2 men who have suffered.
“My mom had an expression: What’s the use of being Irish if you don’t know your life is going to break your heart,” [Colbert] told Biden, while Biden—whose first wife and young daughter were killed 43 years ago in an automobile accident that grievously injured his sons Beau and Hunter—pointed out that his interviewer was himself no stranger to devastating tragedy.But, Colbert continued, he really was the one who had to take care of her. She was shattered. That means that Colbert was to his mother what Hunter and Beau were to Joe Biden, who spoke of how his young sons supported him. I was moved at the realization that these 2 men were — and that point — like a parent and child to each other.
When the 51-year-old Colbert was 10—exactly 41 years ago on September 11, two years after the then-30-year-old Biden lost half his family—Colbert’s physician-father and two of his school-age brothers died in a plane crash....
“I marvel at the ability of people who absorb hurt and just get back up,” Biden said. “You’re one of them, old buddy. Losing your dad when you’re a kid... It’s like asking what made your mother do it every day?”
Colbert chimed in: “She had to take care of me.”
Biden never said he'd run for President and never said he wouldn't. Perhaps that's part of why he came across as so appealing. It did seem that he lacked the emotional wherewithal to run. There were long pauses and broken syntax. But that would be the candidate's presentation — reluctant, senior, suffering, but willing to serve, if we really need him. A couple times during the interview, asked about his suffering, he turned to the audience and wondered about their suffering, which in some cases, he observed, is worse and harder to bear. I chose that quote for the post title for a reason.
ADDED: Something I said a couple weeks ago: "It's very sad that Joe Biden lost his son Beau, but I'm very skeptical about everything Beau-related that's being thrown out in front of us to smooth the way for a presidential campaign.... His 'heart' and 'soul' are 'banged up,' but if he runs, it will be because he's determined that he has what it takes, that there's plenty of emotional fuel, there's fuel because of Beau, because he's worked through this tragedy and come out tougher, more determined than ever and because Beau wanted him to run... he's doing this for Beau! We're supposed to get caught up in this win-one-for-the-Gipper sentimentality. This is political propaganda. However real Joe Biden's pain may be — and I'm sure it is — I'm standing at a cold distance from this emotional politics. I'm more interested in how Hillary feels about it. You know, she has feelings."
९२ टिप्पण्या:
Biden makes emotional connections very easily. He would be able to beat the empathetically challenged Trump.
The great girly-men of the age.
Empathy with Biden, KKK comparison with Trump.
Jon Stewart obviously relinquished his 'clown nose' to Colbert.
I am Laslo.
I can't reconcile an empathy vote. Having suffered justifies a futile fight to prop up fatally flawed entitlement programs so my predecessor has a legacy? Personal family tragedy, so higher marginal rates on rich people?
it would be nice if we could decrease the amount of politics going on all the time. and have more empathy, compassion and heart for what we suffer everyday. everyday there is a new tragedy and politics will not solve even one of these tragedies. biden and Colbert suffered tragedies and became unbelievably successful. why? ask this question why?
...of course, I already know the answer and so does the professor.
Love the Irish quote. I googled it and found this:
"I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually. I guess that we thought we had a little more time."
– Reacting to the assassination of John F. Kennedy, November 1963
The whole collection of DPM quotes is kicker. We need better politicians.
Referring to government agents/operatives/employees as "servants" seems so stilted, so dated, so out of touch with today's reality. I roll my eyes when I come across someone who still uses that phrasing.
"Thank you for your service." You make me sick, you ass-kissing putz.
Libtards are always FEELING shit instead of thinking.
It's like thinking with your dick all the time, except dumber and without the upsides.
I think it is more that Biden is being cautious, suspecting that he may be being set up for something.
Shared experiences will always help make a good interview.
Poor Hillary. If only Chelsea would die tragically then Hillary would get some empathy, too.
Not saying she is planning anything.
No.
Not saying anything like that.
I am Laslo.
Joe Biden would off the rest of his family to be POTUS.
Let's just say that if we get the news that Chelsea is fighting a horrible life-threatening disease I am sure she will be cured after the election.
You're welcome, mom.
I am Laslo.
Way to whiny
Biden has his fair share of flaws, but does anyone here doubt that he would be a far better president than Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders? This assumes the Democrats have about a 50/50 chance of winning the next election. Is he the best Democrat for the job? No. Is he the best Democrat who could win the nomination? Yes, pretty much.
Thank You Althouse for many years of enjoyable reading. (Although I enjoyed the comments a lot more than your posts) But today is the last day for me.
Difference of opinion is something that I seek out and enjoy, but stupid bores me.
Your blog has become stupid and boring. You had a great run and this will be a unique archive in the future. Best Wishes Always.
tim maguire said...
Referring to government agents/operatives/employees as "servants" seems so stilted, so dated, so out of touch with today's reality.
This.
Biden certainly seems to have suffered a lot, and for that he has my sympathy. That is not any sort of job qualification.
No one gives Hillary empathy for her stoically enduring the death of Vince Foster.
Seems she can't catch a break.
I am Laslo.
In last night's rerun of The Big Bang Theory, there's a head-butting thing between Sheldon's mom and Leonard's mom. At one point, Sheldon's mom says that she'll "pray for" Leonard's mom.
And I had to stop to think about that. I mean, I've heard that expression many times. I always took it literally, but Sheldon's mom is kind of old. If you keep telling people you'll pray for them, and you get old enough . . . jeez, do the math! You could be on your knees for hours every day.
Doesn't seem very practical.
Maybe it's one of those colloquialisms, like "bless his heart."
Another possibility is that religious people say their prayers and then at the end they do a catch-all thing like in the first theme song to Gilligan's Island.
. . . and the rest . . .
"...your example of suffering and service is something that would be sorely missed in the race."
I gonna vote for the dead people.
Is he the best Democrat who could win the nomination? Yes, pretty much.
If only to watch the repercussions after he slips his tongue into Angela Merkel's ear.
The choice between Biden and Trump would boil down to a tough competent guy that tells us to suck it up and we can win, or an emotional friend to hold our hand and mourne with us over our losses.
Biden could pull out a big vote for sure. Trump has to sell jobs, jobs and more jobs. That is his trump card.
"he came across as so appealing"
Cruel neutrality!
Biden has his fair share of flaws, but does anyone here doubt that he would be a far better president than Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders?
This seems to me to be analogous to choosing the bowl of vomit for dinner in the hope that it might taste better than the 2 plates of shit that are also on the menu.
I think history and eyesight and hearing are being challenged in this emotion-globbed comments section today.
All of a sudden, Biden is the "best Democrat who could win"? Right. And he is a really brilliant mind, rich in character, and with his full mental capacities.
I'm almost persuaded. (I do recall the VP debates in 2012.)
You measure the man (or woman) not by the maudlin memories of his bad times, but by what he does with the rest of his life in response.
Biden suffered a terrible loss. I don't doubt for a minute that his grief at the loss of his wife and daughter was real. But he has used that tragedy to advance his career many times. Years after the accident, after the death of the driver of the truck that collided with his wife's car, he began referring to the man as a drunken driver. The man was exonerated at the time. Biden's wife simply had a momentary lapse of attention and pulled out in front of a truck.which couldn't possibly stop in time. Biden's posthumous slander of the man is despicable, and it reveals the truth about his character.
The Late Show is now the Propaganda for Democrats show.
Wilbur could never mourn the death of anyone he did not personally know. Just not in the wiring.
Princess Diana, JFK, Michael Jackson ... the outpourings of tears and grief by complete strangers to the deceased does not compute.
Well, no point responding to Jim in St Louis. He's gone. And in St. Louis.
This would all be much more compelling if Biden weren't a pathological liar and gropey creep, and Colbert weren't a nakedly partisan hackish one-trick pony who list his trick.
Yes Slow Joe has. Suffered mightily. He has had family tragedies--but then so have I now that my mom and dad and younger brother have all passed away. I'm al good old Slow Joes age. But the source of Joe's suffering can be capsulized as follows: Ignorance can be cured, but Stupid Is forever.
You really have to be slow to make Obama look smart. Joe is and was equal to the task.
One way Ann reminds me of The Donald is that neither will ever admit error, and in fact both insist on doubling down when called out on an error.
Colbert's loss of his father explains a lot about his deficiencies as a man and comedian.
Thanks for the insight!
Could Biden get a ten-point boost relative to Hillary! if he declared himself a woman, and presented as such? Or would that just revive the "only born woman count" vitriol?
"The great girly-men of the age."
Hmmm...given how the men you probably consider "manly men" have TOTALLY FUCKED UP THE WORLD, there's no reason to be insulting to men whom you perceive as somehow lacking in "manliness." (Of course, men who cannot feel their feelings--especially where warranted, as in the case of these two men who lost family members in tragic circumstances--are not "manly men" at all, but sick, repressed men.)
Somewhere, someone is on their death bed praying to God to live just long enough to vote for Joe Biden one last time.
Oh wait: that was his son.
Never mind.
I am Laslo.
"Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever." -- Aristophanes (circa 400 BCE)
And yet I've always thought of Biden as eternally immature, and Colbert as deliberately obtuse.
Biden's suffering must be what motivated him to do everything in his power to prevent it in Iraq and Syria.
Of course, for Libs the best way to alleviate their pain is always to help themselves to a chunk of other people's money.
There's a good chance that the emotions on display were genuine, so I feel a tad guilty in wondering whether Biden was just as moving in talking about his hard working father in that speech he plagiarized. He really knows how to fake authenticity. In that respect, he is better equipped than Hillary to offer Bill Clinton's third term.
One could make a shared emotional connection without political implications.
I have to say that I was impressed with the Biden & Colbert dialogue. Grief is a big part of life and an important issue, and these guys discussed it intelligently. In fact, if the Democrats were more mature and sober like this conversation was, I would not have left the Democrat party.
Now, don't get me wrong -- anyone could easily recognize ulterior motives wafting in the air. Biden needs to generate sympathy to launch his presidential campaign to bail out the Dems, who worry that Hillary will sink them. And, Colbert wants ratings, anyway, anyhow. I ain't naive.
But, in and of itself, the conversation was thoughtful and poignant, and I respect that. Both men suffered epic tragedies, and have surmounted them, and that's worth something.
While I'm sympathetic over the loss of his son, like others I see it as irrelevant to his qualifications for the presidency.
And what is more relevant is his other son, Hunter Biden, who is employed by the largest gas company in the Ukraine. I wonder if Hunter wants Dad to run?
OK Joe, I've had a few bad whacks and it does suck. But you should run not because you're the best we got, its because we need more of the same. Its working out fine. Old and white. Grope the girls and say awkward stuff.
I will miss Jim in St. Louis.
There is nothing unusual or special about having Irish ancestors or experiencing a family tragedy.
The problem with American elites is that they aren't any smarter or more driven than other people. Their primary, differentiating attribute is bossiness.
I like Biden. I think he's a sincere person, who wants to do good in the world. I probably wouldn't vote for him, because I don't agree with his policies, but I don't feel like I have to hate him.
Just remember, Joe Biden voted for the war in Iraq, was bragging about how awesome Iraq was in 2010, and he and Obama turned it into a total shithole in a few years where genocide and sex slave markets are the norm. Biden was part of the administration that turned Libya into a shithole. Biden was right there when Syria turned into the nightmare it is now. Biden just helped give 150 billion dollars to the most destabilizing force in the region.
Obama, Biden, Hillary and Kerry could not have done more to make the middle east a living hell. That drowned kid from Syria drowned because of these people.
Graham Powell said...
"I like Biden. I think he's a sincere person, who wants to do good in the world. I probably wouldn't vote for him, because I don't agree with his policies, but I don't feel like I have to hate him."
You don't have to hate him. Biden hasn't stood on coffins of veterans and lied to our face like Hillary and Obama that I can remember. But he is a lying shit and a disgusting human being who only feels empathy when politically advantageous. Out of Hillary, Obama, Kerry and Biden it is true that Biden is the least reprehensible person.
As far as Colbert, I don't have a historical frame of reference on what happens with ratings, but his tanked the second night. And the numbers for Fallon went up.
Colbert wont be on long if that trend continues. A lot of people are missing that Trump's support is not ideological. Everyone knows he isn't really "conservative." A lot of people in the left who feel betrayed by the political class support him. Sanders supporters like trump better than Hillary. Putting Trump up with the KKK hurt Colbert.
Colbert is a hack and everyone saw it.
From a different angle, I wonder if it is truly possible to generate and display authentic emotion when you know that thousands of people are watching you and that there is a trick to triggering the desired emotional response via appropriate acting. Not only Colbert and Biden but all politicians (and public figures, for that matter) get coached on how to behave for the camera, and incessantly practice, all the time. Some are better at it than others but it's always, consciously or not, acting.
Thomas Zengotita has a devastating critique of how the camera by its very nature destroys authenticity in his great book on postmodern culture Mediated. After reading it I could never take anything projected onto a screen exactly the way the projectors were wanting.
Graham Powell said...
I like Biden. I think he's a sincere person, who wants to do good in the world. I probably wouldn't vote for him, because I don't agree with his policies, but I don't feel like I have to hate him.
9/11/15, 11:14 AM
My feelings about Biden are the same that I have about Clinton. Ignoring politics, would not mined having a beer or two with either man but would not bring my wife along nor have more cash in my wallet than cab fare...
"Hmmm...given how the men you probably consider "manly men" have TOTALLY FUCKED UP THE WORLD,"
Kirk Douglas, Richard Widmark, and Marion Morrison have done no such thing!
"That drowned kid from Syria drowned because of these people."
Nah. I blame the kid's dad. Total jackass.
"Is he the best Democrat who could win the nomination? Yes, pretty much."
Now that James Traficant is dead, then I guess so.
I just remember that smarmy, arrogant performance he gave in the VP debate against Paul Ryan. Biden is an asshole.
If feel bad for anyone that has had to live through the loss of a child.
But and the John Stewart / Steven Colbert 'we're smarter than everyone' routine is getting stale.
Suffering and service. Give me a break. This is the same guy that charges the Secret Service rent.
Every time I see Biden I think of his cringeworthy, despicable performance in his VP debate with Ryan. He is not a decent man - not that I believe Trump is either.
I just remember that smarmy, arrogant performance he gave in the VP debate against Paul Ryan. Biden is an asshole.
His and Ted Kennedy's High-Tech Lynching of Clarence Thomas stopped my days of voting for Democrats cold.
Anyone here saying "Good Ol Joe" is too young to remember that he is a cheating, lying, plagiarizing racist.
Joe Biden- the guy who threatens to shove his rosary beads down people's throats. Such a good Christian.
The private lives of politicians are real when they're kept private. When used as political props - and everything a politician does publicly is political - it's all rolled into the scam. Only a fool is taken in by such stuff. Let's just stick to born-in-a-log-cabin boilerplate and keep that to a minimum please. The main salient fact about a politician is that the word is synonymous with criminal. KISS.
I'm old-fashion Midwestern to the core. The German side of my family was/is stoic and taciturn, the Irish side was/is lace-curtain proper and aloof. You could say we tend to be emotionally shut down and you would often be right. We don't show our emotions to anyone except those who are very close to us and even then we control ourselves. We would never go on television and become emotional about anything in front of an audience of complete strangers. We think badly of people who do. We don't trust them. We don't think the emotions they are expressing are or can be real. We think they are fakes. Either that, or they are weak.
In other words: suck it up Joe. Be a man. Be private with your grief.
About that VP debate: for me the most memorable part was Biden's bluster, in response to Ryan's warnings about Iran's nuclear program:
"Even if they get it [fissile material], they don't have a bomb to put it in!"
Right. Because look at all the countries that acquired a supercritical mass, but couldn't achieve detonation.
Our first test of a gun-type design was over Hiroshima. We were that sure it would work. Pu is trickier, but so far as I know every nation that has seriously pursued a nuke has succeeded in the first try (asterisk on NK's first semi-fizzle).
I lost a lot of respect for Ryan that he couldn't respond effectively, either time Biden triumphantly roared that line. I don't expect him to be a nuclear SME but this is interested-layman stuff.
Biden is a far better choice than the ethically/morally challenged Clintons. And he is a people person. He likes people. I hope he gets in soon...
Who is Jim in St. Louis?
dbp: Biden has his fair share of flaws, but does anyone here doubt that he would be a far better president than Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders? This assumes the Democrats have about a 50/50 chance of winning the next election. Is he the best Democrat for the job? No. Is he the best Democrat who could win the nomination? Yes, pretty much.
If I was in a country where these three were the only three choices, I would invest heavily in dry foodstuffs and ammunition. Fortunately, we haven't gotten to that point yet.
But if you must ask:
Sanders: Probably the most authentic of the three, but with politicians that is hard to tell. He seems to legitimately care. Unfortunately, he's an avowed socialist and socialism does not work except on small scale and then only sometimes. No executive experience other than as mayor of what passes for a city in Vermont.
Clinton: Outrageously corrupt. Mean. Uncharismatic. Past history shows little political chops beyond ruthlessness and appears to be utterly incompetent at foreign affairs, unlike her husband. If she was ruthless but effective at foreign affairs, that would be a point in her favor, but alas he's only effective against Americans and typically weak ones she is bullying. Does have some concept how to govern, though no real executive experience of her own.
Biden: Very charismatic. Has issue with relatively minor inappropriate touching of women and children. Says something dumb, stupid, or inappropriate on a regular basis. At this point I'm not sure if he is a bonafide buffoon or is obfuscating stupidity. Other than being a politician for a very long time, albeit from a small state in a safe seat, there's nothing really to recommend him. His only executive experience is as Vice-President and he's been complaining about the state of the country, a country where in theory he has been the #2 in charge for the past 6+ years. Essentially he is the Obama continuation.
Ugh.
If you want the country to survive the four years until we get someone better, Hillary is probably the best choice. Her interest in graft needs a stable country and her husband has shown he can compromise.
If you want the country to collapse with a vague hope of rebuilding from scratch: Sanders.
If you want to die laughing in a short period of time: Biden.
It would be a good conversation outside of politics. The fact that it's within politics, and not just within politics but within the politics of seeking the most powerful political position in the world, makes me suspicious and critical. Show host pushes preferred candidate.
"Golly, that's awful. Shucks, I'd better vote for the guy. He'd prolly feel real sad if he lost."
Laslo Spatula said... [hush][hide comment]
Empathy with Biden, KKK comparison with Trump.
Jon Stewart obviously relinquished his 'clown nose' to Colbert.
I am Laslo.
Would be sweet to see Trump call him on his bullshit
Blogger mikesixes said...
Biden suffered a terrible loss. I don't doubt for a minute that his grief at the loss of his wife and daughter was real. But he has used that tragedy to advance his career many times. Years after the accident, after the death of the driver of the truck that collided with his wife's car, he began referring to the man as a drunken driver. The man was exonerated at the time. Biden's wife simply had a momentary lapse of attention and pulled out in front of a truck.which couldn't possibly stop in time. Biden's posthumous slander of the man is despicable, and it reveals the truth about his character.
Please God, I will give up alcohol for a week if Trump brings that up.
.....edit: a day.
Blogger Laslo Spatula said...
Let's just say that if we get the news that Chelsea is fighting a horrible life-threatening disease I am sure she will be cured after the election.
You're welcome, mom.
I am Laslo.
Mesothelioma,inhaled cement dust. Hillary said Chelsea was in the neighborhood when trade center came down.
FullMoon said...
Laslo Spatula said... [hush][hide comment]
9/11/15, 1:24 PM
FullMoon, what browser and plugin do you use to give you that "hush/hide comment" option? I used to know but my PC recently crashed causing me to loose much, including that.
Thanks!
I feel bad for Biden but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a buffoon.
I'll take Biden's authenticity over Trump's bullsh*t any day. But I'm afraid we will be stuck with Trump's White House Reality Show for at least 4 years.
"Manly men HAVE TOTALLY FUCKED UP THE WORLD."
But just think, Cook, without the manly men what would the pussies have to whine about? What would you and your lefty buds use to sell covetousness and class warfare as a world view. Who could you blame for US prosperity as you work to eradicate it?
You owe manly men a great debt!
"I'll take Biden's authenticity ...."
Ah, yes, Matt. Sing a song to the authenticity of Joe the plagiarist!
Empathy for a person's pain is no more a good reason to vote for him for president than the color of his skin, or the restroom that he or she uses. Ideas matter. Ethics matter. Character matters. And the ideas, ethics and character of every single Democratic politician that I've observed in recent years are questionable at best. I have no great love for the Republicans, but I'll vote against every single Democrat on the ticket in 2016, all the way down to dogcatcher.
"Manly men HAVE TOTALLY FUCKED UP THE WORLD."
-except for the men who sailed to Normandy, and gave their lives to rescue Europe from the Nazis, right? Those were some seriously manly men. No Beta males allowed.
Biden is so authentic he plagiarized his own biography.
Just think of how certain beknighted intellectuals, folks to whom Robert Cook can only aspire, have made the world so much better.
So very much better.
I have suffered. Vote for me!
Another sign, another order of bullets.
I cashed my food stamps today, and I'm watching football all weekend.
Bring on the vandals.
Biden may surprise the Obama gang when he turns out to be pro-American and quits surrendering to the Muslims faster than they can accept and ask for more.
"vandals"... er... I meant, refugees.
Biden was selected to be Obama's life insurance policy on the premise no one would kill Obama making Slow Joe president. So who will Slow Joe find to be his Biden and is there anyone in politics that dumb to qualify as Biden's life insurance policy?
Biden was selected to be Obama's life insurance policy on the premise no one would kill Obama making Slow Joe president. So who will Slow Joe find to be his Biden and is there anyone in politics that dumb to qualify as Biden's life insurance policy?
I don't doubt Biden's capability to grieve, but like Mikesixes above I was aware of the slander he has directed toward the driver of the truck that was involved with the fatal accident so many years ago. That Biden would lie about that driver, who in all likelihood suffered some post traumatic stress from being the cause, albeit innocent, of those deaths, not only balances out but tips the scales against him in regard to his loss.
We all suffer. Just as intelligence is not a virtue, suffering is not a job qualification. The first is a tool, the second inevitable if you are paying attention to life.
Character is what counts, and lying about everything including the death of your wife and child is proof of a lack of character that has been a feature of every Democrat nominee since Carter, with the possible exclusion of Mondale. I say possible because I don't know much about him.
William said...
There's a good chance that the emotions on display were genuine, so I feel a tad guilty in wondering whether Biden was just as moving in talking about his hard working father in that speech he plagiarized. He really knows how to fake authenticity. In that respect, he is better equipped than Hillary to offer Bill Clinton's third term.
Was this on television?
Then it was scripted for political/ entertainment purposes.
There is no sincerity on television.
What can I say.
Once you've lost Jim in StLouis.............
you've lost Jim in StLouis.
Biden is an idiot. A pompous idiot.
...there's fuel because of Beau, because he's worked through this tragedy and come out tougher, more determined than ever and because Beau wanted him to run... he's doing this for Beau! We're supposed to get caught up in this win-one-for-the-Gipper sentimentality. This is political propaganda. However real Joe Biden's pain may be — and I'm sure it is — I'm standing at a cold distance...
That's because they're idealists. So a narcissist couldn't begin to understand.
The only thing a narcissist idealizes is herself/himself.
Fuck Biden. I'm sure he still grieves for his losses. But sad annecdotes and back stories dont rise to the level of experience necessary for POTUS. Fuck Colbert too. Lame one-trick pony is all he is. Other than Bill O. & FNC to priff on, what has he to offer?
Biden is a far better choice than the ethically/morally challenged Clintons.
He served as VP in an administration with one of the ethically/morally challenged Clintons for four years without a single word of criticism for her.
EMD said...
"That drowned kid from Syria drowned because of these people."
"Nah. I blame the kid's dad. Total jackass."
Stay home and get gassed in Syria or take a shot at getting to Europe?
Frankly, I don't give a shot that his son died. People die every day and their fathers don't use the event to their political advantage.
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