"A Black Lives Matter activist demands, at great length, that Mrs. Clinton acknowledge her culpability for supporting criminal justice policies put in place by her husband’s administration that wound up harming black Americans — and say how she would change 'hearts and minds' to address what he calls a virulent strain of 'anti-blackness' that reaches all the way back to slavery."
ADDED: I didn't experience the encounter as "tense" and "awkward." I thought the "Black Lives Matter" man was gentle and reasonable, and Hillary Clinton may have nodded a bit too robotically as he spoke, but when she got her chance to speak, she spoke like what she is, a politician. She advised the group to come up with specific goals that could be fought for and achieved. She let it show that she didn't think much about the idea of changing everyone's "heart," but I thought that was fine. If a politician could do much to change hearts, Obama would have done it. That's not Hillary's style.
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७५ टिप्पण्या:
“I don’t believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate.”
Which I suppose sums up Hillary Clinton's opinion about democracy and the consent of the governed.
"It's too bad they both can't lose"
-Henry Kissinger
Wait!! Anti-blackness??....cuz "acting white" is wrong?
I actually thought she handled that fairly well. Certainly better than Bernie or Martin.
It was one of the few times she looked genuine.
Nobody gets within 20 yards of Hillary without authorization or somebody getting fired or worse. So it all depends on what the definition of 'unscripted' is.
A safe wager to make- if NYT reports an 'unscripted' moment with Hillary, she handled it with grace, aplomb and an air of presidential leadership.
Hillary often has a creepy frozen smile, wooden movement, and head nodding. She's like some sort of automaton in a children's theme restaurant that abruptly springs to life and sings a jaunty tune. I half expect to hear the whir and clicking of servos every time she moves.
"The combination of patience and gentle scolding with which she responded seemed a distillation of Mrs. Clinton’s worldview: that movement politics gets you only so far, and that activists must pave the way for those in office to act."
-- I wonder if the NYT would consider a tone like that from a Republican as "gentle scolding" or "patronizing."
....in a tense, awkward, unscripted moment.
There is NEVER an unscripted moment for Hillary!
I think that Hillary's joke about wiping the server with a cleaning rag was first rate! She's a people person! I am having more sympathy for Bill every day.
"Unscripted moment" my arse.
As was said earlier no one gets that close to Hillary! without her permission. Remember the "rope line" incident in NH?
The Clinton's are backed by George Soros who also funds the "Black Lives Matter" movement.
Seems a bit phony to me.
So there is nothing to see here but a brilliant interaction between the "Dowager Empress of
Chappaqua" and radical racialists funded by her ally according to the NYT.
I have to say I initially thought it strange that BLM was going hard after Sanders and not Hillary, but it seems they are trying to take her to task over her and her husband's legacy. This exchange almost makes me feel sorry for her, as it's clear there's nothing that will satisfy BLM short of groveling and she even tries to do that a bit.
Right now the candidate doing the best to address problems in the black community is Ben Carson. It'd be nice to see how he can address the BLM folks in a one-on-one forum.
""Unscripted moment" my arse."
For a scripted moment, it doesn't look too good for her (unless her goal is to get white people and non-crazy black people to feel sorry for her). Maybe she and her team planned it out, but she certainly doesn't come across well.
So Hillary was able to out talk an inexperienced and passionate activist. She has never been a slouch when it comes to spin and bullspit.
I note the attempt to tar her with Bill Clinton’s official actions as president. I hear this same argument with regards to the punishment being disportionate between powder cocaine (favored by white and Hispanic criminals) vs crack cocaine (preferred by black criminals). The punishments are harsher for crack and my Ferguson friends see this as evidence of the racist justice system. But I am old enough to remember who it was who wanted harsher penalties for crack- it was the black democrats and their allies (like Clinton). Black politicians and black community organizers lobbied for more jail time for crack dealers and users.
Perhaps another example of the age divide that is mentioned in the article.
I think that she thought the person would be more willing to listen and deferential. Between her "what do you mean, with a cloth?" comment and her "I'll just talk to white people!" then comment, I think the stress may be cutting into her normally even temperament.
Changing hearts is hard. Dictating laws and how resources are allocated is much easier. In a socialist system Hillary might actually end up as the one who puts a gun to the head of the believers who made her rise possible.
BLM'S ship has not only sailed, but it also sank some time ago. White liberals have no interest in raising that wreck.
I think the stress may be cutting into her normally even temperament.
LOL. Sure, whatever. Real presidential timbre there.
I mean, sure, she's swore at some Secret Service members. But! In front of the cameras, usually very mild mannered. Clark Kent-esque, really.
Why is black lives matter not ridiculous, is the question. Why doesn't it get black emabarrassment.
Reminds me of why I hate politics. Democrats are kinda trapped by the BLM movement, as the activists are satisfied with nothing less than attacking everyone else. So after Bernie Sanders got sandbagged, Clinton and a bunch of advisors worked out exactly how they were going to script her response when it happened to her. Then she practiced it for two weeks till she got to use it.
Nothing in politics can be unscripted today, not when an incautious response goes right on youtube.
Very tiresome it is to point it out I'm sure, but a Republican who said, in irony, that "then I'll just talk to white people" would be crucified by the NYT and that clip would be endlessly looped on network news and "Republican vows only to talk to white people" would roll at the bottom of every crawler.
It is hard to make Hillary look good. But this whining jerk, honestly, made Hillary look good. Where is Frederick Douglas when you really need him?
It's really difficult to understand the "Black Lives Matter" movement from across the Atlantic. How are the tactics being employed by these people suppose to prevent another Furgeson from happening? Wasn't that incident determined by mulitple agencies to be justifiable as regards the police officer confonting a criminal? It just comes across as the basest kind of tribalism. I hope the politicians show some spine with this nonsense.
"frozen smile, wooden movement, and head nodding."
I think she has early Parkinsons.
Good point about crack cocaine. No one seems to remember but you and me that it was black politicians who wanted the heavier penalties. They also thought the CIA was behind it.
jaydub said...
I hope the politicians show some spine with this nonsense.
8/19/15, 10:49 AM
LOL, good one!
As others have pointed out, had all of what Hillary! said had been said by a Republican, it would have been spun as out-and-out racism and condescension and played 24/7 by the MSM. Look what happened to Bernie when he dared to say "wait, all lives matter".
The only way to not fall into this trap is to go all "Trump" on them when they finally get asked. Turn it into "fair and just laws for everyone will, WILL help blacks too". You don't end discrimination by discriminating. You end discrimination by no longer discriminating.
History shows that blacks were doing much better and on an upward trajectory prior to the implementation of all of these liberal programs "to help them". Today, the only thing holding down blacks in America is black culture. No politician (except maybe Trump) will say that. Serious politicians CAN'T say that. It would be career ending.
I suppose it would be unkind to ask if there's any way to speed it along, but is the nature of Parkinson's disease such that it would prevent one from fulfilling the duties of the Office of the President? Don't the people have a right to know?
By the way, what do you think of these doctors giving Democrats like Clinton, Kerry, Clinton and Obama these sort of notes from home that they're fine to be president, but Republicans somehow have to have their every prostate check documented in triplicate?
The BLM protest has the potential to turn into this election cycle's version of Reverend Wright's 'God damn America' from 2008. The big difference is that, while Obama could distance himself from Wright's screed, and the media was happy to help him do that, the BLM team keeps insisting on barging into campaign prime time -- the Dem candidates cannot avoid it if they tried (and I suspect most of them are trying to).
The problem the Dem candidates are having with BLM activists is a tribute to how completely Obama has changed the landscape on the Dem side of things since 2008. Back then, Reverend Wright and his views were marginal, both among the Dem elite as well as African-American pundits. In contrast, the BLM view of the world has gotten the tacit endorsement of Team Obama, and a version of its basic complaint is echoed in the views of such writers as T-N Coates, among others. You can see that playing out in this interaction between Hillary! and the two BLM types -- for her, the premise of the BLM movement is not to be questioned, only the tactics to achieve its supposed ends. It's not the sort of problem that could be effectively solved by a 'Sister Souljah' moment either -- that only worked for Bill 20 years ago because the views he dissed back them were purely marginal in a political sense even on intra-Dem turf.
BLM is a view of the world (and of law enforcement generally) that is a truth not to be questioned for a large segment of the Dem base -- think of it as a version of climate change in that regard -- but it's a view that no one, certainly not Hillary! or Bernie, could ever possibly sell to the wider American electorate.
I will say that line about only talking to white people was pretty choice. Reminds me of that bunch of black leaders who went to meet with Woodrow Wilson and he really slapped them down. ("If this organization is ever to have another hearing before me it must have another spokesman.")
Not fairly, necessarily, but if you like beatdowns it was pretty choice.
"Real presidential timbre there."
Be careful about mentioning Clinton and presidential timber in the same thought. It can lead to trouble.
"The only way to not fall into this trap is to go all "Trump" on them when they finally get asked. Turn it into "fair and just laws for everyone will, WILL help blacks too". You don't end discrimination by discriminating. You end discrimination by no longer discriminating."
I could see Carson pulling it off--not only because he's black, but because he was brought up in a poor, single-parent family and lived among slum violence in childhood. It would be nice to see him eloquently tear apart their assumptions and accusations and replace it with his positive message.
Maybe Hillary wanted this to be her "Sister Souljah" moment? It doesn't seem to have turned out that way, though we'll see how the media cycle treats it. Right now it looks like her strategy has been to go for the Obama coalition (more liberal, activist, and racialist) than the Bill Clinton coalition (more moderate). So she needs the BLM seal of approval, and for them to lay low for the rest of her campaign.
Hillary's public moments are as unscripted as a Shuttle launch.
Occasionally they blow up on the launch pad.
The BLM protest has the potential to turn into this election cycle's version of Reverend Wright's [sermon]
...or, if we're lucky, the scene outside the convention center in Chicago circa 1968.
In which case I'm rooting for injuries.
So, she's prostrating herself to a collection of idiots to show her Progressive bona fides....and is FAILING at it. Spectacularly so.
Her plan to only talk to white people --- genius. Really.
I think that she thought the person would be more willing to listen and deferential. Between her "what do you mean, with a cloth?" comment and her "I'll just talk to white people!" then comment, I think the stress may be cutting into her normally even temperament.
She just needs a software upgrade and a reboot. Hillary 2.0 is bad, but I've heard Hillary 2.1 is solid.
Maybe Hillary wanted this to be her "Sister Souljah" moment? It doesn't seem to have turned out that way, though we'll see how the media cycle treats it. Right now it looks like her strategy has been to go for the Obama coalition (more liberal, activist, and racialist) than the Bill Clinton coalition (more moderate). So she needs the BLM seal of approval, and for them to lay low for the rest of her campaign.
She's pursuing the voting machines vote. Robotic devices stick together.
Hillary's public moments are as unscripted as a Shuttle launch.
I doubt it's any better privately. I can see her reading a script for an orgasm.
Famous Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver -- who, if you can believe it, became a Libertarian/Conservative explains the "game" in in a great interview in Reason.
REASON: Did the Panthers try to provoke violence? Was that part of the strategy?
Cleaver: Sure it was part of the strategy. It was using the theories of revolutionary violence. A lot of people don't like to give us credit, but in America you had some of the best-educated revolutionaries in the world—even better-educated than some successful revolutionaries in other countries. We studied the experiences of these other countries and we knew the theories of guerrilla warfare and Marxism and Leninism and people's war, and we definitely were not sitting back waiting for the authorities to attack us. We used to lie about it, because the information was a weapon also. We would go out and ambush cops, but if we got caught we would blame it on them and claim innocence. I did that personally in the case I was involved in.
"Her plan to only talk to white people --- genius. Really."
-- I think she was being sarcastic.
-- I think she was being sarcastic.
1) I don't think she was being sarcastic. I think she thought it was an earnest offer.
2) If she was a Republican, would it matter?
I don't see any benefit in giving her benefit of the doubt here.
I am giving her the benefit of the doubt because that's what ought to be done, even if a Republican won't get that benefit.
Gotta disagree. Not taking a gun to a gunfight might be noble, but it's a poor idea.
Her answer sounded, to me, like an earnest suggestion. Not sarcasm, which I'm not sure she's all that capable of based on a 23 year track record of near-total humorlessness.
She, certainly, wouldn't be forgiving.
Eventually the Leftist coalition will collapse in on itself, if only because there's no way for the swampies, the OWSers, the BLMers, the unions and the crony capitalists to each get their way without stepping on one another's toes. That's one reason why after 8 years in power a ruling coalition starts to fray and splinter--think how the BLMers think, 8 years of a black, left-leaning president and things look in their view as bad as ever for black people, gunned down regularly by cops and saddled with debt, unable to find good jobs, etc. Why should they want to line up and back Clinton after that?
I've often said the only thing that can save Clinton is the GOP, and in this context it would be because only a fear of what the GOP could do would be enough to get the BLMers to behave. The question is whether that scare tactic will work again.
I don't think many will line up and vote for Hillary. She's the least charismatic candidate in my lifetime (well, her and Dole) and encouraging people to vote AGAINST somebody is not usually a winning formula.
But the GOP needs to KEEP her on the defensive.
Hillary just told off a black activist and is still considered a viable Dem candidate.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that can stop her support among press and party.
She could be eating live puppies during her next TV interview, and nobody will dare say a word against it.
God help us all.
" ... for all her decades of effort on behalf of civil rights ..."
What?
BDNYC said...
" ... for all her decades of effort on behalf of civil rights ..."
What?
8/19/15, 1:01 PM
Well of course! She was (after all) married to the first black President!
"But the GOP needs to KEEP her on the defensive."
They do, and they have to be smart about it. Hillary succeeds best when people feel sorry for her (what a feminist icon!) such as just before the '08 NH Primary. Best to keep at her weaknesses (trust issues, corruption, being out of touch) and also dig away at her strengths (I should say "perceived strengths) such as "experience" and "moderation". For example, her experience is countered by her long list of failures and scandals, and her "moderation" is something she's running against now (and is a negative among the more extreme elements in her party anyway).
The other thing is defensive--the GOP nominee will have to innoculate himself from the obvious lines of attack ("GOP extremism", "party of plutocrats") because it's only by making the GOP intolerable that Hillary can win.
Perfect, more of this Hillary, please!
It is just an outrage that we have criminal laws and sentencing policies that hold blacks, among other races, accountable for their criminal misconduct after we catch and convict them.
The unfairness is aggravated by the fact that we keep them in the dark about conduct like murder, robbery and drug dealing being illegal until after they have been apprehended.
Discrimination! The horror! Boohoo!
I still don't understand why this group is seen going after candidates for the next election--trying to extract a promise of action. Why don't we see this group confronting Obama, who can actually do something since he is in power. Oh, that's right--Obama's public meetings are all so scripted that this group couldn't get anywhere near him to confront him. I don't hear them braying at Obama's inaction.
I think mockery of her is key. Make her as brutally uncool as she is. Don't just attack her ideas --- make the idea of her having a clue of how anybody lives be comical.
They do, and they have to be smart about it. Hillary succeeds best when people feel sorry for her (what a feminist icon!) such as just before the '08 NH Primary. Best to keep at her weaknesses (trust issues, corruption, being out of touch) and also dig away at her strengths (I should say "perceived strengths) such as "experience" and "moderation".
I'd focus HEAVILY on "sleaze". Hillary has some incredibly sleazy associates (what human would want to be known as a friend of Sid Blumenthal) and her Foundation --- and since it has HER name on it, yeah, she has to show some control here --- has done some incredibly sleazy things. We can even ignore what they did in Haiti since Bill was "running" that show. But pepper her on issues that are rather blatant influence peddling that cannot really be nuanced away. I'd also ask about the treatment of Manning and Petraeus given what she, herself, has done.
She can try and spin accomplishments --- but that so many of her associates are absolute sleazebags is hard to overcome. Obama managed to gloss over a lot of his unsavory connections, but Hillary's are really well-known. She can't pull "He's just a guy from the neighborhood" in regards to Blumenthal. Giustra's dealings with her Foundation's support are going to be difficult to explain away.
It's hard to feel sorry for influence peddling, I'd have to imagine.
One strategy I see Hillary trying to do is portray herself as acceptable to moderates while still the best bet for the Left, and contrast that with "extremist" GOPers. Expect to see a lot about how these GOPers want to repeal Roe v. Wade, or still are not cool with gay marriage (which Hillary has backed for a whole sixteen months now!). She wants voters to think "well, she's corrupt and dishonest, but we at least know what we get with her...but politically she's closer to me, not like those right wing weirdos!"
When the campaign heats up and she has to face actual interviews and debates--and people are paying more attention to ads--it'll be important for the GOP to demonstrate her own lack of moderation (e.g., favoring even late term abortion, opposing the Keystone pipeline) and put her in the position of pissing off the Left or the Middle by having to pick a side on key issues. Exploit the rift on the Left!
That, and of course a lot will depend on just how good the GOP nominee is. Someone who can sell their principles can blunt the "extremist" charge, which is really all Hillary's team will have in their playbook. With that blocked, it's curtains for her.
"Hillary has some incredibly sleazy associates (what human would want to be known as a friend of Sid Blumenthal) and her Foundation --- and since it has HER name on it, yeah, she has to show some control here --- has done some incredibly sleazy things. "
Blumenthal is a particularly unsavory person, and the more that's uncovered about him the worse it'll get. I agree she can't pull the "he's just my pastor" or "I barely knew the guy" card. This was someone she tried to get a job for at State.
It's hard to believe that the BLM brownshirters aren't a coordinated Democratic machine activity intended to drive the black vote. Ferguson was not a spontaneous event. It, and everything that has followed, was perfectly timed to lead up to the election.
This is just the beginning, and the endgame has been written. We just don't know what it is...yet.
- Krumhorn
It's hard to believe that the BLM brownshirters aren't a coordinated Democratic machine activity intended to drive the black vote.
They're funded by Soros. Nothing grassroots at all.
Right. It's "criminal justice policies" harming blacks and not, you know, crime.
I agree that it isn't for a government to change hearts, but to change laws.
Of course, the laws should be changed in keeping with the Constitution and the will of the people. But there is no law that can make people think a certain way, love a certain group, or feel a certain way. The ability to think for ourselves is freedom.
Todd said, in response to my statement at 10:49 am:
LOL, good one!
Did you really "laugh outloud" at that statement? Is your sense of humor so primative tha you could "laugh outloud" at a straight-forward comment, or are you just being a dick? I think you're just being a dick, but I suppose I could be wrong. So, what's the deal, did you really laugh outloud at my statement, or are you just a dick?
Senator Johnson says, "These idiot inner city kids." and Althouse is all over it.
Hillary Clinton says, "Then I'll only talk to white people." and not a peep.
Jaydub, my dear fellow, the laugh was at the idea of our politicians showing some spine.
Personally, I don't care whether she managed to control herself long enough to not come off like a complete tool in this meeting or not. She is not fit to be POTUS, she does not have the judgement required to handle that much power.
I think it is just hilarious that a big leader of "black Lives Matter" is white. Just hilarious.
I should add he is white and pretending to be black.
2nd best thing she's ever done after withdrawing from the primary. Wait for it.
That is facing down the BLM thugs.
Wait...Dr K...
She said the thing about talking only to white people, while talking to BLM reps, ONE OF WHOM IS PASSING AS BLACK LIKE RACHEL DOLEZAL?!?
The irony...it burns...HRC had to have known this. HAD to.
Therefore, she may be capable of cuteness.
She will probably be the nominee, at least does not realize otherwise. Better not to have total contempt for her. Too dangerous to turn your back on.
BTW retired: total Sister Souljah moment. Can of corn.
I think that Hillary should have stood up for her husband's perfectly reasonable (at the time) choices. The fact that she doesn't underscores the average (white) male's* distrust of her.
____________
* white males or "might whales"?
You decide
I kinda like 'anti-blackness' as a term. It avoids endless discussion of 'you're racist for mentioning race... no *you're* racist....i can't be racist, I'm have no power...etc'
Focuses the mind. Is this policy or person objectively hostile to blacks as a group or as individuals.
Everyone is equal. Respect has to be a give - and - take.
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Althouse: If a politician could do much to change hearts, Obama would have done it.
Because if Obama can't do something, nobody can do it?
jaydub said...
So, what's the deal, did you really laugh out loud at my statement, or are you just a dick?
8/19/15, 4:44 PM
I really did LOL. Did you bother to read any of the rest of what I wrote? In this climate and with the media forces araide against any and all conservative candidates, do you really expect any one of them to have the strength of character to day what needs be said? Look at what happened to Romney when he rightly pointed out that the country was nearing the tipping point on the "give me" group. The MSM instead of trying to explain his 47% comment, used it as a stick to beat him with. It was true but liberals and the media (redundant I know) don't care as they see their policies as a way to save us all. Heretics will not be permitted to survive.
It is a rare modern politician in America would show any spine on any conservative topic of fundamental concern especially if it means standing up to racial blackmail. The naivety of your comment is LOL funny in a "if I don't laugh I will cry" way. I wish I was wrong and Trump (if nothing else) may serve as a "reset" on some of the PC crap but I don't hold out much hope.
Bill raped women but the GOP is the party of "war on women". Democrats have done more to destroy the black family and the black middle class (what there was of it) and Republicans are racist. The country is in financial ruin. If any business did half of what the government is doing with insurance, SSN, the VA, the EPA, the entire board of directors would be in jail.
Sorry if it upset you but yes, your comment was LOL.
"I agree she can't pull the "he's just my pastor" or "I barely knew the guy" card."
-- She can and will.
"If a politician could do much to change hearts, Obama would have done it." So much invincible stupidity wrapped up in a single sentence.
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