"Since 1993, weapons have been banned at recruiting centers. Only military police can carry weapons at military bases and reserves centers. Gun-free zones were launched to reduce the use of deadly force unless absolutely necessary at military facilities, according to the 1992 directive under President George H.W. Bush. The policy was modified under President Bill Clinton a year later...."
UPDATE: "Republican presidential candidates Jeb Bush and Scott Walker called Friday for an end to a ban on service members carrying guns in military recruiting offices."
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This was a gun free zone. If he hadn't been killed by police the perp would have gotten a citation.
Dozens of soldiers have been killed by lone wolves with foreign sounding names shouting religious slogans. At military bases.
We live in a world gone completely bonkers.
I have no seen that otherwise ubiquitous media term "unarmed" attached to the victims in this story.
So stupid.
It was a different world then. When hijackers took an airplane everyone was expected to cooperate so that violence wouldn't occur.
Things have changed. Not for the better, but they have changed.
EDH, that's because none of the victims were:
A) black
AND
B) breaking the law at the time
AND
C) black
Remember when attempting to intimidate with violence was so absurd, it made a great sketch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRm5WcjOikQ Ah, the good old days.
This image quite concisely illustrates the fundamental insanity of posting a prohibition on firearms without also posting armed guards to enforce the prohibition.
My first instinct after I heard about the shooting was that I should grab my 30-30 and post a watch in front of the recruiting station which sits in a strip mall just across the street from the Golds gym where my wife and I work out every morning. It does rather sadden me that those who have sworn an allegiance to our nation are by federal law prohibited from protecting themselves.
This whole story would have seemed utterly absurd 35 years ago when I was in the US Navy.
@Levi - you'll need faster fire than a lever rifle, unless you are actually Chuck Conners, in which case, cool.
Take a M1, that way if you get knocked down all those guys will know how to pick it up and use it.
Me, were I inclined, I'd take my M1/Carbine. It was good enough for commies in Korea....
-XC
Levi, I know how you feel. For those low-info voters who don't know the history of it all, it probably still seems absurd today.
Hell, I feel like a high-info voter (Cookie might disagree - pfft), and it still IS absurd. Clintonian legacy rule kills 4 Marines.
Of course, that's not the first time Clintonian legacy has allowed violence directed at America by Muslim radicals.
Expat(ish), if there's more than one shooter, you're probably correct. But if you got one chambered, a flick of the thumb safety and a quick look down the sights is all you need to put a single man 6 feet under.
If you can't trust your own people...
ROE favor the terrorists and workplace criminals.
"Since 1993, weapons have been banned at recruiting centers. Only military police can carry weapons at military bases and reserves centers. Gun-free zones were launched to reduce the use of deadly force unless absolutely necessary at military facilities, according to the 1992 directive under President George H.W. Bush. The policy was modified under President Bill Clinton a year later...."
Unless things have changed dramatically, this statement isn't quite true. When I commanded a company at Ft Hood in the 80's, whenever the weapons (rifles, pistols, machine guns) came out of the Arms room, at least one officer or NCO (I normally made it me) was armed with ammo and a loaded weapon.
The Army doesn't like to be embarrassed by some punk pulling up with a pistol and ordering 30 soldiers to put their machine guns and auto-rifles in the back of his van.
There were times when I would consider the idea of Marines not allowed to defend themselves with guns to be absurd.
These days it was probably the thirteenth most absurd thing I had to deal with this week.
Don't get me wrong. I am saddened by this. It's just we now live in a world where the people in charge seem to be completely unhinged from reality. I more or less expect this now. It is the norm.
Reality will correct this, eventually. We will learn that reality can be quite the bastard.
As for the question, ""Why were 4 Marines unable to defend themselves against one man?",
the element of surprise combined with a high powered rifle is a very overwhelming edge when firing through a storefront at folks sitting at desks, then driving off...
How many lone wolves do have to see before you realize there's a PACK out there and stop muzzling your guard dogs?
I haven't yet heard The Won say Marine lives matter.
Of course he likes his Marines in the "Marine Corpse". Well he got some corpses yesterday.
"Gun free Zones": Columbine HS; Sandy Hook Elementary School; Fort Hood; Virginia Technical; Etc.
Ha, Bush I..
@The Drill SGT, the four were in the Marine reserve parking lot..I don't think anybody died in the first storefront shooting.
The Won found it impossible to mention the name or religion of the shooter in his presser.
I thknk the Drill Sgt has it correctly. There is probably some middle ground between the unrestricted access to weapons on base and a better ability of individuals to defend themselves once they leave their personal vehicles (and presumably, personal weapons locked inside). I see that Cater has asked for recommendations to improve the ability of armed serivce members to defend themselves. I assume that will allow members to (concealed or not) carry off-base but working, and also improve security at installations not currently manned by armed members.
About time and a shame people had to get shot first, but better late than never. Unfortunately, this won't be the last incident. It's only the latest.
George H. W. Bush: The Original Squish.
Being a squish is a family thing, too. It's high time to remove this leftist stain of Bush from our nation.
The Army doesn't like to be embarrassed by some punk pulling up with a pistol and ordering 30 soldiers to put their machine guns and auto-rifles in the back of his van.
Would the Army issue weapons, but not brass, to the ranks and brass only to the ranking NCO/Officer? I could see where there would be a nightmare of inventorying weapons and live rounds checked in and out if everyone on base were carrying a loaded weapon. I remember having to account for my M-14 and all of my brass after range training at Camp Bullis.
Furious-a, I think if we were allowed to carry our own firearms as allowed by local law, then there would be no problem with inventorying them.
I really like Camp Bullis, by the way. Neat history. I like the story of the lieutenants who got tired of living in tents and built an unauthorized, high quality stone house for themselves. The base commander turned a blind eye until they were finished and then commandeered it. It used to be an artillery base until artillery ranges exceeded the size of the base.
I expect Pres Urkel to issue soon a statement of condolence to the bereaved family of the Noble Warrior of Allah™ Muhammed Abdulaziz, and congratulations on his success in killing 4 crusaders. also, he will allow our troops to be armed with Nerf guns and silly string.
We train and trust these people to handle the sharp end of our national policy. But we are afraid to let them carry in their own grounds? Madness.
Lethal madness. The only ones hurt by this policy, I'm guessing, are those who most deserve its protection.
If it's any consolation, somewhere in the world, American crusaders are killing hundreds of infidels every hour.
Preolii procedo in nomenis deus
WHy? Because democrxats have this fixation on making military bases gun free zones. And the very people that can bets handle guns have none around and have to call the cops so THEY can bring guns. And while they are waiting for cops they have to put their dodging bullets skills to the test.
During the Carter administration, The gate guards at Bolling AFB in DC were unarmed. As a result, the back gate guard was once robbed and kidnapped. They then closed the back gate and didn't use it anymore, to everyone else's inconvenience.
In the Michigan National Guard, if you are the owner of a CWP, you can carry your concealed weapon onto any of the military installations in Michigan.
Because we're not suicidal.
Historically, American citizens never believed in a standing Army. They thought the Army should go away after a war.
World War II changed everything, and we've emptied the treasury ever since, maintaining our forces overseas and stateside.
I assume every soldier has the right to get a concealed weapons permit, and should do so within state law. But to have a federal grant of police power to more and more enlisted men roaming the streets, is an encroachment on states rights.
There are a lot of crazy people in the military. Many of them are half-cocked PTSD sufferers, and the prescription of giving them all a concealed gun permit, has a certain body count associated with it. Especially their wives and kids, who are usually the first to be murdered.
On the other hand, since we've already created a war torn country, with half our treasury going to the military/homeland security junta, then by all means, arm all the troops outside the fort. What could possibly go wrong, and is it really wrong that the military controls the highways, water supplies, and crop production.
On the other hand, since we've already created a war torn country, with half our treasury going to the military/homeland security junta, then by all means, arm all the troops outside the fort.
Coupe's opinion is based on non-facts, which may be a pattern. Here's the "national treasury" in fact, not fiction
With facts so easily summoned it amazes me how certain persons feel compelled to blather fact-free to the detriment of their convictions and reputation.
Quaestor, you're right, I might be off by a billion.
My point was allowing soldiers to leave the forts with their firearms sets a bad precedent, and can only result in street battles, murder, and threats to public safety. You only have to go to China to see how that works.
1,412.75 billion off, to be more precise.
Did the policy to reduce deadly force work? I have yet see numbers.
No one is advocating letting soldiers drive their tanks home. However, all residents of Tennessee may carry privately purchased arms except soldiers, and this exemption derives from the executive orders of the White House and not Tennessee law. This order persists in spite of the Ft. Hood massacre and the latest outrage in Chattanooga. The unarmed military fine themselves being protected by the militia.
Truly there are some propositions so unutterably stupid that only bureaucrats and academics can hold them.
It is ridculous to suggest - as has been done yesterday - that we now employ security guards for military installations and recruiting offices, as though putting a minimum wage Wackenhut guy out front is better than trusting the troops inside, who, after all, are the same ones who really do the fighting in other circumstances. We're not talking about law enforcement authority, only giving some number of military authority to carry, just like we routinely arm agent-dolts from every Federal idiot farm, Labor Department to Bureau of Mines to FEC, with all kinds of high tech weaponry.
Give them fucking sidearms. This is ridiculous.
Coupe said...
Historically, American citizens never believed in a standing Army. They thought the Army should go away after a war.
World War II changed everything, and we've emptied the treasury ever since, maintaining our forces overseas and stateside.
I assume every soldier has the right to get a concealed weapons permit, and should do so within state law. But to have a federal grant of police power to more and more enlisted men roaming the streets, is an encroachment on states rights.
There are a lot of crazy people in the military. Many of them are half-cocked PTSD sufferers, and the prescription of giving them all a concealed gun permit, has a certain body count associated with it. Especially their wives and kids, who are usually the first to be murdered.
On the other hand, since we've already created a war torn country, with half our treasury going to the military/homeland security junta, then by all means, arm all the troops outside the fort. What could possibly go wrong, and is it really wrong that the military controls the highways, water supplies, and crop production.
63% of national oulays go to entitlements. The other 37% accounts for the rest including our military. Which I need to remind you the the federal government , by law, must provide for. Not so much that other shit.
The next massacre will happen outside the main gate of a military base. Traffic usually backs up as guards check the IDs of cars entering the base. It's worse at some bases than others, but from around 0700 - 0800 you can count on a lot of cars outside a base. A gunman will know that every single one of those cars will be unarmed, since it's against the law to bring a gun on base, even if you have a concealed-carry permit.
He can stand far enough away from the armed guards at the gate to be safe while spraying the cars with fire. He can kill dozens before the guards or the police can react. We already have a precedent when a Pakistani immigrant gunned down CIA employees waiting at a turn signal to turn down the road toward CIA headquarters back in the 1990s.
Just wait, it will happen.
A 'gun free zone' is a 'free fire zone' for bad guys.
Historically the president with more names than other 'mericans, the GHW guy, is being like Santa Anna. Santa Anna had an army that was dressed purty like Europeans armies with single fire muskets. The Texas Rangers had Colt 45s and were a mobile rapid fire cavalry and with dash provided the point on the spear in the Mexican American war which began as a war over whether the Nueces or the roughly parallel more southern Rio Grande was the border of Texas. The U.S won the war and kept the Mexicans below the Nueces and the border has been emotionally and in its porosity been variably controlled ever since.
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